Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave, another host of cooking issues coming to you. From the heart of Manhattan in New York City. Rockefeller Center newsstands studios joined as usual with John behind me, John. Hi, John. Doing great. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, everything's good.

Yeah. Yep. Great.

Doesn't sound like it doesn't feel it.

I mean, you know, sometimes my Monday, so I'm just using another week.

Are you one of those guys? It's kept down by the weather. You don't like bad weather? I don't really care. Oh, good. That's good. So that's why Anastasia can tolerate working with you because she hates people that care about the weather. Oh, I go. What do you miss Darcy? The hammer. Lopez. You're there in California, right? Yes, yeah. Don't you hate people that did change their life based on how the weather is? I do. Yes. I hate it. Yeah. Like oh, you can have a good time now because the weather's good week right week. Yeah, especially in New York City where we're not about the weather. I'm gonna go surfing here to hell got Jackie molecule is not with us today. Unfortunately. Where's Jack? Is he doing something fun at least Anastasia? Or Is he is he laid up in bed somewhere?

Is that South by Southwest?

Okay, listen, I have to say something. But what we're gonna do. What? We'll come back we got Joe Hasan rocking the panels. How're you doing? I'm doing great, man. Good to see you. Good to see you as well. And our special guests, Homer Murray restaurant tour and Chef, Brooklyn and Manhattan again, extraordinaire of 21 Greenpoint, formally of Andre taco here in Rockefeller Center, which we will talk about in a little bit and the newer 21 Greenpoint here. Welcome. Thank you. That's a lot of mutual friends. But

we've never met. I know it's make your acquaintance. Yeah.

Yeah. So if you're listening live on the Patreon call in to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Now listen, and then if you've been to South by Southwest or South by as

they call it, no, I think I missed that boat. 20 something years ago, right.

You know what? That's a boat. That you are elegant. Listen, I know everybody loves it. Oh, you love it, right? I'm like, nah.

Sounds terrible.

I mean, like, yeah, you know, the Stasi, you'd probably like it, because like, you can go see all those bands and stuff. But like in terms of eating, it's just one big line. It's just one giant line. Hate lines. Yeah,

I hear you. My dad likes to go he goes, but he gets to cut the line. So it's not fair.

That's not fair. Like that's why like, like I you know, I don't mind going to some events if I know that I can just be like, come on. Like if I know the people who are like running on my clock. I mean, like, I feel bad coming. But on the other hand, I'm not a he likes I

just hate. I don't like events that descend upon the city and otherwise peaceful town. You know, I mean, if I lived in Austin, I would dread that time of the year more than anything.

I think that I know some I have some friends of mine live in Austin. And I think that they actually like it kind of because they can go home and they get they can go home. They don't have to stay in an Airbnb. And you know, if they want to go home and eat something that they bought at a supermarket, they don't have to wait an hour and a half for like half of a breakfast burrito. You know what I mean? For sure.

I mean, the breakfast burrito though,

God well, you know what, I don't know if you know this. Boston invented the breakfast burrito. I

heard about that. They invented a lot of things that I thought had been around for a long time.

I like Austin, Austin's he started. Did you ever go when we were doing the Austin crap do you go was

No, no, I didn't go with you. We haven't been one in Brooklyn. for brunch if you ever need a breakfast burrito? Oh, yeah.

So what what? What makes a good breakfast burrito for you?

We have great tortillas. Yeah. Nice flour tortillas that a friend of mine makes and it's just simple. You know, it's nothing crazy about it.

Oh, is it? There's one guy? What's his name? The guy who makes the good flour tortillas? I

think so. No, he is the chef. His name is Nikki Nikki gorgeous. He's the chef of a place called SF BK, which is in Williamsburg. And he's from Arizona. So he's sort of passionate about it. And yeah, that's that's the building block to any good burrito. Right?

Yeah. Does he does he use that? The Hayden? The Hayden mills. I'm not sure about his process. Yeah, but I know that flour. Yeah. It's like, it's like super expensive of millet look. It's expensive as flour goes, yeah, it's not expensive compared to steak, right? You know what I mean? But it's very expensive compared to flour, and it's milled by oh my god, her name is Adam. It went on my head. But she has a book on milling and she uses primarily white, snore and wheat. And when you add milk to a number we add water to white snow and wheat to make a to make a dough. It almost smells like cereal milk. Yeah, it's got this amazing kind of aroma and it's got like it's just a perfect texture for flour tortillas with like, you know, a little bit of lard up in that piece. You know? And it's much now yeah, now lard water. Salt. Flour. Yeah, winning. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it took me yours to appreciate a good flour tortilla because the ones you know, I was like, I've been exposed to really good corn tortillas, but I've never really been exposed to excellent flour tortillas very well you know it like you've been in New York a long, long time. Do you remember that place fresco?

Yes, absolutely.

Those were not terrible. No.

Yeah. Gosh, I

really good flour tortillas at yellow rose. Yeah, yellow roses

are great. They just opened this little place next to yellow rose a Taco Bell looks great. Yeah.

Charm artisanal taco. Yeah. Might be a cantina. Yeah. Do they actually have something called Taco Bell? Cantina?

They do. I've never been to them, but they sell booze. Real? Yeah.

Here in New York.

There are a few in New York.

Yeah. 36 and six.

Like booze, booze. They have a full license. I

have probably a frozen margarita or something along those lines. But yeah, liquor. Yeah.

You know, I've just been working on frozen margaritas recently. I've been working on frozen drinks. Yeah,

I'm trying to get my frozen drink program up. Yeah, I need your help.

Well, what's your what's been your issues with it? I don't have one. Look, the issue with it, I think is that like, the frozen machines, and most people are using like, it's a trick. Look, people love the frozen drink machines. Because, you know, pull and pay Paul and pay money, money, money, money, right? Enough, right? Well, that, in general, people are doing really, really high sugar levels like 12 13% 14% and low alcohol levels, and they're getting very long. You know, it takes a long time for it to melt because it doesn't have a lot of alcohol. Whereas like a lot of my old recipes were like, you know, 13 14% alcohol and they come out when they're really cold. They come out like a perfect slush, but they melt, you know, drink them so quickly. It doesn't matter. But like they end up like kind of slipping out. So like I have low sugar, high alcohol. So I've been working on trying to do kind of a middle of the road situation where you know, you're still over 10% Like just over 10% at or just over 10% Alcohol. So the backbones still there and just knock the sugar down a little bit? You know what I mean? No, you get a good you get a good? Good, not good. Not great. Cool. Yeah. Would love to have your Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, the trick is also like, it's like what size machine? Yeah, like, you know, yeah. I think the mistake people made I'll never forget, I was I had done a bunch of stuff for tales of the cocktail with frozen machines. I was using l Mecco. Machines, machine, but they rented some like, you know, crappy little miniature air cooled daiquiri machines. So for anyone who cares about refrigeration, like the question is, is it going to be first of all, how much power are you going to put into it? And secondly, is air cooled or water cooled? Right? And air cooled machines, there's only so much power you can get out of them. But you know, you're like no one can afford it in a restaurant to add a frozen drink program. You're like I got to put in freakin 220 line and a water cool that sucker. And we're going to put it it has to be countertop. So everyone ends up with everyone ends up usually with a 120 air cooled machine. And there's limits hard limits to what a one point air cooled machine can do. And I think the other mistake that people make is that because I had to run this, we all did this event. None of us had ever done frozen drinks before. It's years ago in New Orleans. hot as hell New Orleans in July. They rent them all from some Mardi Gras garbage company. Look good people. I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, not be though. Human trash cans. I don't know. Anyhow, so we get all these machines, and then you know, we all dump our batches in and they all freeze down all of us like like 30 people. And then as soon as we start drying and putting back in, they all water out. And so like that's when I learned gotta keep your batch frozen. Gotta keep your batch frozen. So if you don't have something right next to your machine to keep your batch pre frozen, you're toast. You're absolutely especially because you know if you're busy you pull five of them you know so how can we five group up but then you don't five drinks in is it well good 20 minutes for the next one folks right?

You see a lot of that Yeah,

yeah it says you know easily rectified by just having like a cheap you know a cheap freezer Yeah. Or even like we used to have existing conditions we had a freaking what's it called a just like a you know one from PC Richards like a little like oh like a dorm room kind of freezer only like you know undercounter and then we weren't gonna have a drink machine but we could load frozen stuff out of it. You know or like you know extremely fancy ice or whatever crap we didn't want to go bad you know you're sitting there watching dollar ice cubes go in the ice well, and you're like, you know, Christ anyway. So this is the part of the show where we discuss anything interesting that happened last week and in the food or otherwise world you guys got anything anyone do anything interesting in the food world?

I went to yellow rose, and it was delicious.

Oh, there you go.

Right. Yeah, that's right by my house. Yeah, pretty regularly. Yeah.

I've never I've never been so give me the give me the scoop.

He used to work for Brooks at superiority. And then he's from Texas originally and decided to open up this place with his wife that does phenomenal Tex Mex food really? li really really good I think he even the chili that one of the chilies that they used to do and superiority burger he used to make and it was the recipe he got or he got second place with at the Texas State chili cook off an event as a vegetarian submission to

Well let me ask you this. Yeah. Was there a vegetarian category?

I don't know. I think he submitted it with all the meat do

I don't believe that not even for a second. Just because it was really delicious. Have you ever I'm not saying that? I'm not I'm not saying that. Have you ever hung out with Texans? A little bit. And you think that a non beef based recipe in a beef based category

maybe you didn't tell them? Yeah, maybe. Maybe chance? You only was

your main ingredient is psilocybin mushrooms it's like oh man is beef. You know what I mean? Yeah, because they're hallucinating and thinking there was beef in there because you can't is it got meat analogues that have been chilly it was been surely the honor oh great honor to be in Chile Yeah. Oh my god. Here's a food story don't do so over the summer I went to Maine I bought you know you go to Maine you buy weird beans right so like you know I'm at a roadside stand you know you know way up way up near Katie National Park I go in like where are the beans and they're like like that go in and like all these little sacks of weird beans you never heard lows champion early and inside is gram Saturday beans like one of those old like courier type written recipes ma try it and it's weird because the standard bean recipe you you soak what I'm not gonna get into so I don't care anyway but you soak it then you pre cook it until you know you do the thing and the beans are almost part done and then you bake it for a while right but Graham in her infinite wisdom with this Lowe's early which is specifically was this because her other beans had different recipes in it just cook some straight for like five hours no pre cook like that at 250 is good I was getting nervous because it like four hours they were still kind of hard I was turning them over so the ones on top of go underneath and they weren't breaking it was really good. And you know around five hours they you know they finally softened up you know, no acid, no gussying Just a small amount of molasses mustard, salt, no freaking pepper, onion. No freaking garlic pizza salt pork I have vegetarians coming so I left it out. That's nutritional yeast to try to boost it a little bit because I didn't have the pork and I had it a little bit even though salt porks not smoked add a little bit Hickory Smoke powder, just to make up for the fact that and have the pork don't just show none. Anyway, I haven't a technique I use now with beans were what I do is I cook them in excess liquid first let them cool a little bit, add vino knock all the farts out of it and then do my reduction cooking afterwards once it's been defaulted. And then now so I'm used to being like being champion because I'm like, I can eat anything without like getting sick. But the bacteria in my gut are as strong as I am in terms of what they can tolerate. And so they'll just you know, they'll blow me apart. You know what I mean? You don't saying let's problem. Yeah, yeah. Or like, you know, like, you know, like Miss dossier is with what's it called Jerusalem artichokes where she likes to you know, she likes to expand her, her friends bottom sides with with gas. That's one of your favorite tricks, right? So

manners in my 20s

was not even your twice. This was like six years ago. Yeah. Anyway. So I follow Graham's recipe to the tee. And I ate it like I had defaulted it and I have not been in so much pain from a recipe. I was like, I will never cook beans like that again without doing the default technique or just eat fewer wants to eat fewer.

Yeah, that's not that's not a compromise. That's not right. Yeah.

Because I'd made like the Shakshuka for everyone else, but they were going so hard on the shack suka that there was almost none let me eat for dinner call me and whatever doesn't matter. Whatever. crap on you. I can eat it for dinner. It's not only for breakfast, John? No. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Because welcome anytime. Yeah, right. Certainly. Right. Yes. Yeah.

Why are you turning around and yelling at me as I can feel your eyes?

Anyway, looking right through you. Yeah. Anyway, so like I ate mostly beans. And also like, I don't know, another jerky move. I poached the eggs. I don't put the eggs into the shacks. Who could cook them? Oh, really? No, that's what the hell yeah, it makes it harder to save it if you have more left at home I'm not talking about it like you're serving it. But like when you're making a when you're making like a 14 I've used like a 14 inch vole rafts and touring in freaking big old thing doing like, you know, large format comes out the whole table is doing it. I don't know what's going to what people want what they don't so i just i poach the eggs. So I'm just getting poached eggs and beans. Bread. You know what I mean? Just poached eggs and beans and bread. And yes, very bad. Yeah, very, very bad. Very bad. Although I don't know whether the Lows champion rarely been is particularly to dB now. I don't know because I've never had it before

I don't want to track this lady down ask her some questions

I guarantee based on the Fonda Graham is dead Yeah.

Well he No one uses that it's probably living relatives up there.

Yeah if I ever go back to Acadia right, I was gonna like top

of the list. Some questions that I want to answer

was through the Dory start screaming at this lady behind that she's

waving recipe over your head. Yeah.

All right. So let's go back to the stars you went What did you did you say you had anything or no? My mind is totally erased today.

Nothing I want to share. No.

That means it's the most interesting. He's digging there. Yeah. Interesting. I will say this. For people who are looking for the Center for us. We're getting ready to have announcement on that rice does. Oh, yeah. Like, announcement within a month. What do you say? Sure. Yeah. All right. Matt, so let's get on to stuff was going on to talk so if you want to promote the Patreon there, John do that dual business

patreon.com/cooking issues join. There are a couple different membership levels and you get awesome things at each membership level including access to the community discord, discounts from books like kitchen Arts and Letters with guest authors that we have on live Katie parlez is discounted? Yeah, just really a whole bunch of things. Prototypes, questions, all that kind of good stuff. So be come a member so it's a good time for all

IDM Katie parlez my first DM ever really? I've never like slid into anyone's DMS. But I listened to the show. And I enjoyed it so much. I wanted to say hey, I'm going on the show. What do I talk about? And I will say congratulations just had a great. I had my I had several people around me helping me craft it. So I hope it didn't come off too weird. It wasn't a lecherous Diem It was now pretty much everyone.

Well, I mean, I don't know. She lives mostly in Italy. So it might be okay. Right?

Yeah. Why not? It's a reason to get over there.

So Did Did she respond yet?

She's on a book tour. I'm sure she's very busy.

I mean, she has she's in some other place. Now. I saw on Instagram some other place. Alright, so let's talk about opening a restaurant in New York City in a place. So you had Andre taco and let's talk about why. Why that place closed?

Well, I I'm not entirely sure. I may not have gotten the full story. But we opened 2020 2020 I would say September sort of right in the middle of all the guts of it. The pandemic and it was it was sort of bleak and dark down here. I don't know if you were in the building. Yeah. So you know what it was like? And we struggled through but we we really were sort of getting our footing and and realizing what it could be and then and then an idea was proposed that it would be sort of reimagined as a second location. I've had my place 21 Greenpoint in Brooklyn for for a decade now.

And the idea of good milestone. Thanks. Yeah, feels nice.

Yeah, I was talking about the other day. And, and, and it, it sort of hit me that we had sort of contributed to shaping the neighborhood in the way that it is now. And that was a nice feeling. And we're very fortunate out there to have some great regulars and some great neighborhood people that have really cauterized us there.

Well, Greenpoint got so cool that, like people who live in Greenpoint are like I don't really leave Greenpoint anymore. I know.

It's a real problem. I it was for me, I spent a decade there as well. And just recently left, it does feel like a very small, very tight knit community. It is separate because of the G train specifically it is its own little spot up there. So people don't leave as often as they do. And there's less. Yeah, it's a wonderful neighborhood full of incredible people

is the what to go back to my other question, first of all, is, is all the industry gone out of Greenpoint? Because I remember like in the 90s, it was like half a little old ladies on their streets talking to each other, and then somebody grinding because I had a job as a metal worker in Greenpoint in the 90s. And it was like, either like industrial filth or Lilla. Ladies having like, you know, pastries and coffee. Yeah,

the ladies are still there. Some of the filters thankfully, a lot of the stuff that was by the water has been forced out of there, and now is very tall glass buildings. For people that don't know. But the further you get from the water, the more industrial there. There's still a lot of, you know, film and movie production takes place over there and they still

have all those weird places like where Sidney Lumet was shooting. Yeah, all

that stuff is still there, which is neat, and that'll take a little while to ruin but they'll find a way

to find a way to ruin it. Now. So what I heard a was that they obliterated the space that was Andre talk, well no longer exists. That is

true. That is true. There was a reimagining of what the concourse level of 30 rock would be. And that involves bringing in some black iron and some ventilation systems and expanding the scope of what people were able to do. And Andre taco before it was a Bibigo sort of a dumpling place. And before that was a it was a candle store, I think a video game shop. So it was never a place for a restaurant to to be and now it is we're we're in the final stages of getting our gas turned on.

How long has that taken? It's taken a while

there's been some some, you know, some red tape with the FDNY and content and stuff, no fault of anybody, but it's just bureaucratic silliness, which is you know, a lot of T's to cross and we're working in a cathedral, right? A landmark building. You know, changing a light bulb requires several emails and stuff. So things go slow. But since ever

since the explosion, remember the explosion downtown? In what year was that? Say? 20? I want to say like 2014 2015 There was a gas explosion on second. No, I guess not blew up a whole building from a restaurant. Oh, they were doing illegal work in the restaurant. Two people were killed in the restaurant leveled the entire building on the corner. Right next to pump freezone

on like a seven. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I remember that. I wasn't aware of that. That was what caused it.

Yeah, it's gas explosion. And there had recently right before then been a gas explosion in Harlem on like, 120/5 Street in either a commercial building or some sort of like an older school ish kind of building. And those two gaskets, motions happen to kind of very close to each other. And ever since then, I mean, rightfully so. I mean, we're 8 million of us stacked up in this little freaking place, you know what I mean? But like gas work is just nightmare. Yeah,

there's a lot of new regulations that I didn't know about.

Well, what do you think about this whole? In the future going non gas, though? Well, I

mean, as long as you know, the radical left tries to take our gas away, we'll always have something to fight for you. But you know, I like I like the idea of it. Sure. If it can be if the same amount of power and production can can take place in a smaller area that doesn't require ventilation, and possibly a nicer work environment, then great. More power to it. I've ever worked with a ton of it, you know, I have a bunch of induction burners and stuff. But to see it operating on a full scale level would be interesting.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're not going to, you're not going to just burn a bunch of gas in a pickup truck going down the highway?

That's a personal choice. I don't bring that into the work. Exactly. Yeah.

So I mean, I just hate how long things take. I think I've said this many times. I don't think the average person who hasn't tried to have a small business understands how anti small business, like everything seems to be like, we talk a lot about as a culture about how much we like small business. And it's just not. It's just not Yeah,

it's really, it's really challenging. And a lot of the a lot of the things that you fall into, you know, whether it's penalties or regulations or, or whatever, especially in a place, I'll use myself as an example, in a building like this, where, you know, I joke a lot about, you know, Ben and Jerry don't come down and inspect the stuff as often as I'm here inspecting stuff. And the things that are asked of a small business are a lot to take, you know, the financial risk, and the financial investment is profound and little things that that maybe wouldn't register so much on a larger scale can be deeply effective to a small business, and it does feel in a way that the deck is is that it feels that way. I'm sure it's not. And I know that those safeguards are there for a reason. And they're there to be enforceable, and to be profound against anyone of any size. But if the same force is applied to a large matter as a small one, yeah, and the small one does get obliterated. Yeah. And that feels like a hard hill to climb sometimes. Right? Right.

So like when it takes six months to get the gas installed. You may not be burning gas, but you are burning money.

Yeah, I'm employing people. They're standing there looking for stuff to do.

Yeah, it's hard. It's awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

But you know, it's it's my job.

So on 21, Greenpoint, I read your what was named the restaurant you worked at right before that was right there

river Styx river steaks and reopened that's what it was called. Okay. So what's that?

Like? You just take over? And then you change it like, what does that what's the well, how does that work? Well, river sticks.

I was a partner of I was sort of, I went to it with two partners and I was sort of the head, you know, cook. You know, I was the guy who was sort of running the day to day kitchen operations and that's where I was very Be content to stay for a long time. But we had some issues with partners, as is often the case. And they both left. And then I was sort of sitting there. And I was sort of asked to take this on, maybe a little before I had anticipated that. And, and, you know, I was intimidated and a little worried because I don't have I was I plan to sort of sit at River sticks and learn the business, right. But I was sort of it was thrust upon me, and then I, you know, decided to change the name to a little fix up on some stuff that was broken, and, and stay, and we've turned it into something that we're all really proud of, it's a great thing. It was it was, it all came too fast. But it's always best to be sort of asked to do something when you're kind of not ready to you know, just before your you're good enough. Who inspires you to try? You know?

Yeah, and also, I guess, you know, people always get people always, second guess get bent when you say things like this, but like you need to be at a place in your life where you kind of give yourself the permission to try things out. Like, you know, most of the people I know who were successful in restaurant stuff, like Dave Chang will say this about som, or any of these other places that when you kind of have the permission to mess around and do things and put things right, it can be kind of more satisfying, you can build something you know better, where it's harder, it's a lot harder and costs a lot more to try to open something that's a specific way from the get. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, having those constraints is a lot, especially when you you, you feel obliged to them, and you can't you can't, you know, change because it's a constantly changing business. You have to once I once I really started trusting, you know, the my gut and the stuff that I wanted to serve and the the environment that I wanted to have for people. That's when I started enjoying my job and doing a better job at it.

So back to Andre. Andre, taco, not not you said a reference to not a bad Andre reference. No,

although I am but no ombre is what my uncle just called me. And that's cute. Like, oh, yeah, yeah. Andre alunbrig.

Uncle a beer, even when you were like not really an ombre yet. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Homer. Yeah. So like, let me ask you this. What are your thoughts on getting small children to hand like Mad Mad Men style handing alcohol to adults? Pro anti

very pro. I mean, they're the only ones that can nestle, you know, a brandy glass, just so and bring it to the appropriate temperature. Wow. You know, sometimes that stuff is very thin and delicate. You need a soft hand cat tasting

horrifying, please. In the 70s. Which I remember I was young. But I remember. People still use to heat brandy. Yeah. And people would have little

like, I'm not kidding. My uncle would have me warm it in my hands for him. That's what he said to do.

I know but where did this come from? And like thank God had died. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, do you want your like you bring a snifter of hot brandy up to your nose. Like what? Why?

Well, it's a greater the greater appreciate the perfume. Certainly, right. I've seen a little tea candle and like a little setup where you can balance your glass over Yeah, happier times. You

still have that anymore? Right?

Well, you have to make your own. It's out there. You know? How many

that's that's one of those things from the 70s that I'm like, glad glad it's gone. Sure. You know what I you know what I do miss though, with candles. Christmas time. They used to have these these things with candles in it. And then like a little fan above it, and the candles would make the fan go and there'd be these little metal angels that go tinting Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. Yeah. That was good. So let's bring those back. It's good use of a cat. Yeah. Speaking of candle, my brother in law, so I decided my brother in law while he's opening his pizza place. Stretch. Anti candle. He's anti cancer. Is that

right? Yeah. I'm very pro candle. I enjoy the the light that it emits.

You know why? Because it looks better. That's my understanding. Yeah. So like, like LED lights or something knowing look like, like, I'm like, I have a conversation with and talking about school, whatever. He's my brother in law, whatever, whatever. And, yeah, but he's like, I don't know. He just doesn't like they are a hassle. They suck. You have to keep buying what they're emptying them out of the thing. Is you know they at the beginning, you just hired this person. No one told them to put water into the tea like thing. They can't get the frequent candle out learning opportunity. It's a Yeah, it's a learning opportunity with a butter knife and a bunch of people screaming at you, but you don't I mean, it's like whatever. But ever since I read this book, what was it called disenchanted night by somebody? Last name. You ready for it? Chevelle bush. Yeah, Shiva was a little independent scholar named Shiva bush. Exactly. And he's like 90 now anyway, he's still alive. Anyway, he wrote this book. But he was like, Yo, electric light is ugly on people's faces. He's like, bad. Yeah, he's like gaslight was awesome. And but you know, no one can have that now but candle. It's like the movement. It makes everyone look like maybe like 30% sexier. A great. Yeah, yeah. And so like, I feel that one of the main goals right is why we hate that. So I don't know. I don't think he thinks about it cuz he's thinking kitchen anyway. So like, I don't recommend them in the kitchen necessarily not a terrible like imagine. Oh, you're slicing the right way you do? Fantastic. The blood like coming off of your face and little, but like, you know? Yeah, I mean, like, people just look a lot better. And I think you know, if someone's going out, right? I mean, whatever, a business meeting, whatever. But like a lot of people who are going out are going out to have a good time. And if you want them to have a good time, and even better time when they leave and go back home or wherever they're going to go, you want them to look good. Great. I always like I want I want my I want the people to look good when they're here. Absolutely. You looking your place looking good is one thing, but the guests should feel like they look great. There's no

place without the guests. Right? You know, yeah, we're there to facilitate a nice time. That's my understanding.

This is why at the bar, you know, the way that you really are like the if you turn the lights on to get people out, people like

yeah, that's a harsh reality. Let's save that for the unflinching sun in the morning. Yeah, let us let us live in this fantasy for another hour or so.

No, actually, I I'm sure he'll eventually get some candles because candles are not sure. I hope so. I like candles.

I do too. I think they're great. I feel like he would do. Maybe he's got to find the right candle. Yeah, he's not a votive guy. You know, he needs something made out of whale blubber or something that he can.

Or like one of these. Who was it? That was we were Nick. Nick was going to do the olive oil candles where he can you can dip there? Yeah, I don't think while he would enjoy you dipping the crust into a candle

that you'd appreciate that maybe maybe not a garlic butter or something.

Let's get this. So Wiley make his course because Weiss Wiley made his own magic shell.

Naturally. Yeah,

it was just coconut oil. Peanut butter and peanut butter magic shell. Of course. He made magic shell.

Yeah, yeah, I can't wait to try it.

It's good payment. All right. So back to Andre taco. Place. It's been closed later. Yeah. But like so but we've talked about this. So you know, we went down after the show because right when we went here it was it was going like right when we started and that's when Joe was like, you know, home I was like, No, I know. I know. I know. I don't know him personally. I know. Um, so we went down and talked about the broccoli versus the avocado. Oh, right.

Yeah, well, we make a thing called broccoli here and in Brooklyn. And it started as a reaction to not using avocados or trying not to use avocados because how much water they require and the states which grow them have to import water from other places and the people who harvest them are not treated particularly well and Mary had sort of social moral moral issues as to not using avocado I've recently found a guy does avocado guy D avocado guy who makes an incredible product and they're they're sourced from people that you can get behind

but that's not a avocado on my neighborhood on that story so

I don't know we're not

Yeah, we've been speller the same and Dave's neighborhood it's a storefront All right.

This guy is great and you can get him at your house as well and stuff. But anyway, it's broccoli is just guacamole without the avocado. All the same flavorings all the same stuff. tastes similar looks the same. It's cheap too. So I you know broccoli compared to avocado so I can give it away don't charge extra for Brock and stuff like that. Do

you do the overcook broccoli? Or do you overcook it?

You know, blanch it essentially but like you know, boil it and then combine it with other stuff.

Who is it that used to love the over over over cooked broccoli was it Marcela Hassan and people in general? Hey, this is crazy. I printed out the wrong question list I printed out a question list from like two weeks ago I

like this then yeah. All right. I don't know much about gauge and Tola but I can make a big Alaska can you know I can make one

shot? All right. I think some of the questions I didn't get to silver still there all right. This one actually I thought was Quinn This is the one that I think you wanted to go into anyway. A XBBYCZ de zero which is a difficult it's a difficult username to no underscores or anything. Because he can't pronounce it like x bit was it xo?

That Elon Musk kid?

I know. What was his name again? I don't recall. It's like, but it's a normal.

Very charming these days.

I'm still gonna get that dang cyber truck though. We're gonna get that cyber truck if they ever throw a cannonball through it. So I mean, what my boss Listen, I have to say when he did that, and when Fritz put that that like when he broke the the window I was like, of course the window brochure

shouldn't do that to car windows,

but what the W The hilarious dummy move was like, go try it on the other window right now. But like if you did that to my Subaru, yeah, that's what I mean projectile and steel balls work. Yeah. Now, Fritz, do you think he got fired or murdered?

Yeah, I guess probably. Yeah. I mean, it probably would have been a bit more of a public crucifixion these days, but he may be quietly like,

alright, so question is, and you know, we were talking about this actually, before we went on the air, given the fracture state of media in general, which is kind of it's kind of loaded a lot right there, too. As they say, these days unpack right, razor thin margins and the profitability of restaurants, environmental impacts and sustainability and ethical trade. Do Do we have any predictions as to where dining and or fine dining is headed next? Well, it's a tough is a tough guy, you know, you have you know, Redzepi saying that, you know, he's done with it, right? And a couple of years after he Yeah, but

like, Come on, man. He's the guy right? He's, you know, can't be done. Fine. Dining cannot be done anymore on the level he wants, right? Well, wasn't it 20 years ago, you couldn't forage for things in Copenhagen and complete a restaurant menu was just stuff that you found on your walk, he found a way to do that. Right? If he's the greatest in the world, right? And he's given a very manual he does. But if he's the best, if that's the top right, well, then maybe he could find a way. Maybe all the leaders in this world instead of saying, Oh, can't be done. I'm going to just gonna open a fast casual place and fried chicken instead. It's like, Well, how about you figure it out? Man? Are you passionate about what you love? Or are you just here for the awards? Wow, that came out of nowhere. I've been drinking. Wow, man, it's like, come on, we're here. We're here to effing work, let's do it. You know, instead of like, an A guy's guy knows more than I'll ever even begin to know. And it's contributed more to the culinary world than I do. by a longshot. But it's like, I don't get to walk away. You know, a lot of people don't get to just throw their hands up and walk away.

Right? So you're saying, like, you know, is a definite like, he can leave on top if he wants to,

and that feels great. And Mazel Tov go out on top. He's a cool guy. You know, I got nothing but wonderful things to say about him except for that stepping away. Because just because that opens the door for so many other people who are not as deserving to do it as well. You know, I mean, if your leaders let you down, then who are you supposed to follow? Because I'm supposed to follow him. Right? He's the top

stars. Remember what we used to say? When we when someone was chasing something? We didn't think they were going to get it in the food world?

Yeah, what did you What did you come up with?

Wake up and smell the Reds epi? There you go. Because it can't be that many. First of all, there's only this is what I think is changing. So I think part of this is talking, we were talking about, like Pete wells, changing the stars rating here at the New York Times, and the way media in general is changing, right? So, you know, in the heyday, of you know, when Noma before that, whoever, whoever was the fine dining bla bla bla of the world at the time, there's only a certain amount of oxygen in that space. Right. So no matter how good any person is, it's actually hard to get to be the person that receives all the oxygen, you know what I mean? Sure. And I think the the issue is, is it's so expensive to do that kind of work now, that unless you have a chance of absorbing all the attention, it's almost like, well, then how can you even do that anymore? That's, is that part of the argument? Maybe you don't? I mean, like, the question is,

to what end? And that has to be self assigned, right? Don't do get? Don't you have to answer that. Like, how much do you want this? Does it matter to you that much

that you get that kind of accolade? Or would you do it without it? You know? Well, I mean, so, you know, so, so Pete wells, whom I like, by the way, for those of you that don't know, are in the United States, Pete Wells is the food reviewer for The New York Times, which, since, you know, for at least 50 years, probably more, but since I've been alive and could look at words was the, you know, Premier restaurant reviewing venue in, in New York, you know, what I mean? And they're there, therefore, regardless of what you think of us as a city, therefore, one of the most important in the country, right. And so, you know, the star cyst, and Pete Wells is funny, and a very good writer, you know, what I mean? And so, you know, he's switched recently the star system whereby he, I'm just saying this for people, you know, who aren't part of the New York scene where like, for instance, like a food truck and get three stars right now, I think the star system started changing its Meaning back when you know, you know, my business partner at Hi, I'm friend Dave Chang got three stars for Psalm because that was not what a three star restaurant had been because it didn't have the right kind of bathroom, it didn't have the right kind of table service didn't have the right kind of chairs. So it started changing. But like, I don't really understand a world in which, in other words, like, I don't think we've reached, I don't think we've figured out what the meaning is, like we want we all as a community want to give more oxygen to people who aren't just like the Reni recepies, in this kind of fine dining thing. But on the other hand, is, isn't there still a place for that for that kind of work, that kind of control that kind of like, desire to achieve a certain level of perfection. And so I don't really know where this is.