Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This episode is brought to you by TABBERT in New American cuisine in one of Washington DC oldest hotels located in Dupont Circle. For more information visit TABBERT mn.com.

Hello and welcome to Ivanka hustle cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from whenever to about one who knows Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn. hot as hell Nastasia the hammer Lopez Yeah, it is. Is this some sort? What's that yoga called that hot box

yoga you know the control the controllers right by your feet? What the AC is somewhere on the table? What

is it a guitar pedal?

No, I might find a sauciest feeder. They don't on the table anymore.

Yeah, we have like, for me, you remember remember the rat. Remember the rat? The guitar pedal? The rat?

I absolutely do.

Yeah. Stomp it turns into grungy shiver.

Yeah, we should wire that up for the AC wire.

Like like a foot pedal. We have to get an old actual rat.

I mean, those those are still in use. Yeah, you don't have to look hard.

Really? I yeah, I played bass. Of course. Not. Me too hard. So I had an actual bass walleye pedal. But, you know, because I used to listen to stuff that used baseball. But like somehow the baseball just took all the Stasi to make this work. I can't afford a gear guy. I'm a gear guy, but not when I'm trying to talk to people about bass was it took all the chunk out of the bottom end of the bass. I think what you would need to do is split before the WHA have the wires and overlay so you could keep some of the lower end of the sound and just always send the bass out the bass Wawa

did was it Cliff Burton solo on Metallica album that made you get the baseball?

No, I was a I was more of a kind of i Okay, like I was more like a Bootsy Collins kind of you know, the he put so many effects on his base. It's sometimes it's hard to tell what's going on but Ya gotta love Bootsy Collins. Everyone was put to give us

us ninja Thundercat Oh, I love him. No. What? No, really? Really? You? He is? Oh man. I'm so excited. You need to go listen to Thundercat Yeah, drunk the album drunk. Yeah, yeah, just do it. You'll you're gonna love it named after Thundercats the cartoon I've got I hoped. I think so. Based on the lyrics, yes. Nice. Nice. He's like the session player that all these people use Flying Lotus, Kumasi, Washington, etc, etc. And yeah, he's incredible.

Are you familiar with? Are you familiar? Totally separate with Austrian death machine? No. Yeah. So like, unfortunately, it's the guy who I think he's in jail for trying to kill his A way from As I Lay Dying, I forget the guy's name. Yikes. Yeah, he had a I believe it's called Austrian. I think it's called Austrian death machine, but it's all songs that are takeoffs. I think there's two or three albums takeoffs on Arnold Schwarzenegger lyrics and, and movies. So like, you know, it's kind of like a like a death metal II kind of a goofy choppa but it's just like, get to the chocolate like that with a fake Arnold voice.

I will most certainly listen. Yeah,

I mean, I can't listen to like a whole album, but I could listen to like, a quarter of an hour.

No, listen, I'll listen for the stupid grin. It's gonna put on my face. Oh, yeah. You know,

and I think he also I mean, he doesn't just, you know, stick to the shoot 'em ups. He has a little I think he does a version of who is your daddy? And what does he do? Which is you know, obviously, you know, everyone likes Kindergarten Cop. If you have any sort of any sort of soul at all, as a person you have to enjoy both the commando style of Armscor sneaker movie and the Kindergarten Cop style of Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Anastasia, I don't think he's seen any of these movies. Even though she continues to work with me for almost how long? I've watched her crab he even watched the bachelor once we do like half an episode, I watched a whole damn episode phone number to call in 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128. So by the way, speaking of episodes, man, I don't know if you know this, but this is the last episode we're going to have for quite a long time. I heard Yeah. Because we're Nastasia is gone. Next week, laying the foundations for our next la event and Seattle. And then I'm in I'm in Taipei, I'm gonna go to Taipei and spread the good word of bar, you know bar techniques in in Taiwan. My book was just translated over there into that there to talk about this on air how they translated it in Taiwan. But the messed up thing about it is is that Taiwan is one of the last places on earth that uses traditional Chinese characters. So even though my book is now in Chinese, it is unreadable by the vast majority of Chinese readers because only Taiwan and they're even getting rid of it in Hong Kong now, you know, to the great chagrin of Hong Kong old timers, but the traditional characters have been phased out you know, after the after Mao's revolution for the simplified characters and so honestly, I would like to say that you can read my book in China but nope, nope. Anyway, so I'll be in then when we get back I don't know there's just a whole bunch of stuff that we that Anastasia and I have to do so we're probably won't be back people till September. Right. So get all of your questions in now. And in

fact,

we have a question Oh, caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. Hey Nastasia Jordanna here. Rothman listener

guest occasional occasional guest

notable lifestyle influencer

Wait What does that mean lifestyle influencer exactly

collector of various facial serum wow and were a status Birkenstock you know me

wait is are there different levels of Birkenstock when I was a kid it was just like leather and cork you got the one Birkenstock there was only one level of crunch are there multiple crunch levels now?

Well actually it goes in the inverse direction that becomes less crunchy the more expensive the collaboration a few levels up

Birkenstock does collaborations now

oh, they showed you it's very hip. It's very hip and you should listen to me because as a lifestyle influencer of note. I mean, I'm here to tell you, I

believe you. I believe you. But I'm just saying like if there's anything like you're like, like can't anything stay pure. Like I was okay when Doc Martin Doc Martens lost their period that happened when I was a kid. You know what I mean? Like I always wore the you know, like the standard like steel toe big puffy crap kicker like stuff. But then like, I'm okay with the sequins and all that stuff. I mean, like I like them, but Birkenstocks were supposed to be Hi, I'm assuming all of this kind of like, I'm just saying, How can you have a collaboration? Who is it with please tell me it's with like, like some sort of like Sacramento area like rapper like little mozzie or somebody who is who is it?

Two things. Number one, you are the enemy of progress. Number two Birkenstocks have lots of collaborations. One of them is Rick Owens. That's not what I'm wearing. I'm not quite there yet. But maybe one day

you wait and they're not crunchy. No, they're

super the hammer seen me wear them.

He or no one will ever see me. No will ever see me in anything like this because it would require that you could see my feet because I am not going full German with a sock on sandals actions. No offense Germany, but I'm not doing like. What do you seems like you? What do you sock on sandals? Yeah.

Wait, are you? Are you by saying my calling it sock on sandals? That's confusing. It sounds like the socks are sandals.

Okay, anyway who other than the Germans put on sandals over socks?

Well, literally like every, like gender fluid High School hip kid right now. So I don't

know, Have they all been like, is this like, are they looking at like, Oh, I like again, I'm behind the times behind the times. But when I was growing up, it was you had the like, you got the Birkenstocks like you went on your German like your folks March and you had the socks hike hiked up over your cast just underneath your knees.

It's more like it's more like a sort of, like low. It's not like an ankle sock. But it's like sort of not even mid cap. It's a little bit below mid caps is a look these days.

Geez Louise. All right. Anyway, take your word for it. Day people. Since this is ostensibly a cooking show. Do not cook and sandals.

I do I do I cook barefoot.

You're a freaking nightmare. Like you're gonna, you're gonna you're gonna hurt yourself. I for safety reasons. I have to say don't do this.

I have a scar on my right breast from splattering soup on it. Whoa, bite and mixing it. I was vitae mixing hot soup in an open kimono. So, geez. Nice. I play it fast and loose.

Listen, listen. Jordanna I hope you know this other safety tip when using a vida prep both before you use it. And after use it verify that both switches are down and the knob is all the way to the left. You have to verify on low, especially with hot soup. What do you do in Bergen herself.

Another thing that happened is that I dropped a curling iron on the same breath and then forgot that I did it. And then I woke up the next day and had like a well and I was like oh my god. It's like sepsis. Like I am in big trouble. I like wrote a panic letter to my doctor. And then I went to get ready for the day and picked up my curling iron. I was like Oh, right. Yeah. Well, anyway,

all right. Well,

the name of beauty and food.

So your your safety challenge is what I'm hearing. Let me tell you one thing before you do this, especially when you have sandals on when you drop the knife, let it fall. Don't try to catch it. Especially not what your foot sandals, lady.

Okay, I'll take that. I'll take that point. Yeah, I'll take that point. All right, what's your clothes? First of all, number one, I just wanted to wish you a very happy anniversary with the hammer. I know that we're coming up on 11 years. And that is a very significant milestone, and I wish you the very best.

Why is 11 Why is 11 significant? Well,

I have this memory of being at Wiley do frames like 11 year birthday party at WD 50? Because like they missed the 10 year I guess and then Juliana's came to town and then we all like hid behind the booze and did like a surprise birthday party. So I don't know. 11 seems really significant. It's also lucky. I'm sure it has like some numerology significance. I don't know, it feels big. And I just wanted to like take the second and just like shout you out both lifestyle influencers to longtime guys, longtime

allies, we influence people to not have our lifestyle, that's for sure. But thank you, did we do? Are we gonna we're gonna talk cooking or what you got

a question? I have an important question. Okay. So I recently was in Mexico, and I made an impulse purchase, okay. And the impulse purchase was an entire frame of Honeycomb. Okay. And I was like, super excited. When I found it. I was like, Oh, my God, this is so special, like, what a beautiful, like, sort of whimsical, romantic thing to bring back. And so I brought it back. And it was like a real, like, I'm not gonna live like a real hassle to travel with an entire frame of Honeycomb. And then as soon as, as soon as I like, had it back. And even when I got back to New York, I was like, What the hell do I actually do with this thing? And I think in my mind, I thought, I'm going to have a big cheese party, and then everyone's going to eat honeycomb and cheese. But that would be like 120 people each eating like, they're a lifetime share of Honeycomb in the space of like a two hour party. So it's not going to happen. My question is like, a, like, how do I store it be? Is it like safe to just like have for a very, very long time. See any ideas of what I should do with it?

So I'm assuming that they didn't cut the cap off of it. There's not uncapped, it's completely capped both sides.

Very good question. So it when I purchased it, it was like largely capped on the surface area, but it's definitely like because of the heat and like sort of trying to grab with it in a hot car in Mexico and then flying with it, etc. I can see that some of the cast is sort of like deteriorated right underneath it underneath the backpack,

right. So for those of you that don't know, the way that the way that this works is I forget the guy's name, but there was A single person who has a figured out this thing called B space, and B space is, if you just put the way they used to do it as they would put bees inside of a beehive shaped what we traditionally think of as beehive shaped Winnie the Pooh shaped things. And bees would just build honeycomb on the inside of it. And they would form these layers, but the layers would be stacked up in a way that was difficult to get to the honeycomb would be glued together, it was hard to harvest the honey without destroying the hive, etc, etc. So they, you know, they would lift these baskets up, and then they would break the comb apart, blah, blah, blah, then this person, I believe in the 1800s, his name escapes me, because I didn't look it up beforehand, cuz I didn't know you were gonna talk about this, figured out this idea of B space where if you space these things called Supers, which are the sheets that the honeycombs are built on a very specific distance apart, then the bees will form exactly one layer of Honeycomb, and then not attach it to the next layer of Honeycomb and will make the next layer. And that is what is allowed the removable honeycomb frames, the large square frames of honey that you see today is this B space idea. Now a second big innovation is that bees take a certain amount of energy to produce the wax that honey combs are made out of because honey combs are made of wax, that's what beeswax is. And so it used to be, they would just build the whole thing from scratch. And then they realized, if you pre make that, the wax base with the hex pattern on it, they'll just build up the things. And then and then fill them in cap them. And so now, in fact, what they do is is that the bees will cap them over, you'll pull them out, and then they have a hot knife. This is why I asked about the capping that will slice the top cap off. And then they sometimes heat sometimes not depending on what your view of heating the honey is, of course, in Mexico, you don't need to get so freakin hot. And then they'll dump the honey out of the frames. And then they'll just reuse that wax right away so that the bees can, you know, fill it again without using a lot of extra energy now. So just explaining kind of what we're dealing with. Typically, when you buy honeycomb in the store in the small plastic boxes, they've uncapped it because you can see it kind of bleeding out. So you can that's again, this is why ask now, what to do with it that like how many pounds is it?

I mean, it's basically like, it's probably about two feet, maybe a foot and a half long, and then like a half foot high. So it's like, whatever. And that's one layer of Honeycomb, you can imagine. Yeah, like, I don't know, like a pal? I don't know. Yeah, a pound, something like that. I mean,

like, it would be cool. Like you would lose a bunch of the honey. But I could imagine like cutting it into blocks that people could uncap at their plate and pour all over their like individual cheese core. So don't need to do it kind of all at once. You know what I mean? I've never seen I've never seen someone do that before.

Well, how do I store it? If I don't use it all at once? I guess it's

the good news. It will the here's the good news. And the bad news. The good news is, is if it's still liquid now, right? As long as it doesn't get too cold, it will probably stay liquid. If it crystallizes, right, then you will need to heat it to crystallize it. And I don't know, I don't know, the I don't know the temperature at which that will happen versus the temperature at which the wax will start degrading, if that makes sense. You know, from a micro biology standpoint, it's good. You know what I mean? You're at 2% Sugar there, there's like almost no water activity, so to speak of nothing's going to grow in it, it's fine. So whereas maple syrup and 66% Sugar is going to grow mold if you leave it in your pantry. Honeycomb won't right. Now that the other thing though, if you're worried about heat damage, and this is something I think people don't think about, don't store it on the top shelf of wherever you are that the top shelf of your kitchen, especially if you cook can be like over 10 degrees hotter than at counter level. Because one is just always hotter up high because warm air rises. But as you're cooking like hot air from your stove, unless you're very good at evacuating, it pulls up around the ceiling so the ceiling of your kitchen can get quite hot. So I would try to store it as physically low as possible. I would avoid if you can refrigerating it just because it will almost undoubtedly then crystallize and then you won't be able to pour it out of the individual things if you choose to serve it that way. Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally. So basically safe to E store at like more or less room can flow maybe even in like my garage wrapped up like days a little

Yeah, I don't know your garage. But yeah, I mean, like, you know, do I would try to protect it from extremes of heat or cold. Now let me ask you this you are in Mexico but these are regular European honeybees right? These aren't melipona honey bees

I'm gonna be honest definitely not a question I asked at the Mercado Hidalgo and Tijuana that's not Oh, it's in

Tijuana. Okay, so they're not they're not melipona then that's fine because I was going to say that the melipona honey bees which typically are not grown on a regular full time fact I don't think are ever grown on a full frame like that. They produce a honey of possibly substantial lower sugar content and as a result wouldn't necessarily be 100% shelf stable so at the bar we store the melipona honey in the fridge just because we don't trust it it's 100% stable but other honeys yeah are fine and like I say it in fact can can be a pain in the butt if you if you let them get too cold because the crystallized some countries like if you buy honey in England typically it is cream so it's it's it's beaten a little bit and then allowed to crystallize so that it's more spreadable and less of a liquid pouring thing but here in America we prefer a you know, a portable honey that's that's that's what we that's our jam.

Yeah. All right. Final question.

Oh, he was English.

I'm over for a cheese party.

What kind of cheese I love cheese travel when you travel Mustachio loves to say things about me.

Are you gonna go to a cheese party?

I don't know when is the cheese party?

I don't know I have to figure out when I'm going to open the frame of Honeycomb and then I and then if you want to come to the cheese party, we can talk about

it. I would tell my kids about the honeycomb and then we get super psyched and I'd be like no no no not not the cereal like actual honeycomb Do you like honeycomb? The cereal? Yeah,

I haven't been I don't know.

I never had the honeycomb of cereal.

I know that it exists but I didn't have the honeycomb cereal. No,

what was the cereal you had growing up?

I don't know Oh? Oh roll I had I had morning gruel okay all over. Lisa Hello. This is why I'm so like Hashtag blessed and have so much hashtag gratitude as a lifestyle influencer because of my humble

roots. You're in the in the workhouse.

Yeah. Yeah, I would just go

up and bounce her. Singing Oliver tunes word. Yeah. It's a great show. So I'm glad you grew up eating gruel. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever seen Oliver Twist?

I mean, yes, I definitely seen Oliver Twist. Bacon was like a big character. My, my dad loves to just sort of quote the whole thing and, and really, you know, drive home, the, you know, the privilege and remind us that you know, we're better off and so it could always be worse as a common Jewish household refrain.

That you choose Fagin? Because Have you ever read the actual original Dickens stuff horribly anti semitic, the original Dickens stuff and yet popularized in, in modern culture, like the most famous actor of fake and his name escapes me but he died a couple of years ago was Jewish and kind of like turned it into like a kind of like his best known thing. And that character was kind of rescued in a way from being this like horrible pit of of like kind of anti semitic 19th century garbage into something that we're all like, you know, you pick to pick a pocket or to you know, it's all of a sudden it's become this thing where we're like, oh, like, you know, we're okay we're okay with it somehow, you know, that. Always wanted to be on Broadway right in the bank. Joe's so many showtunes things is these don't grow on trees, the Stasi you better pick a pocket of freaky too. All right.

Well, anyway, happy anniversary. Thank you for the lesson and everything impressive as ever and enjoy the rest of your show. By

chat desperately wants to know, to know, has your chat Ceri allergy been cured.

Okay, so has my charity allergies being cured, the Stasi was hoping that my throat would close up and you would all like enjoy hearing it. So when my throat closes, I do like an amazing Donald Duck impression when my throat closes up. But it turns out that I can now have at least a limited number of cherries. The maximum number I've had in a row to date has been like 10 or 15. But I'm and I would my wife doesn't listen to this so it's okay. I would be lying to say that I felt nothing but but Right. You know, now you have more Oliver songs going through my head if I could say who wasn't very greedy anyway, but, but I notice I am I would like to eat an entire like whole bowl of cherries, but I won't so I felt a little bit I stopped, but it didn't progress. So I never felt like I was going to have to go to the hospital. Or even really take a Benadryl. I really I hate taking Benadryl. I hate taking Benadryl so much so I can have. Yes, I can have cherries now. So now when I go out to restaurants, and people are like, Are there any allergies at the table? I don't say anything anymore, which is a great feeling because I hate to be like cherries in loquats. They're like no kumquats. I said loquats kumquats low quats. Low quats. Like Lindsay Lohan quiet, low quiet, and no one says loquats. Anyway, so just something to say. I haven't. I haven't tested. I was like, Rajak fruit has given me some reactions before, but you know, like, no one serves raw jackfruit. So you don't want to have to give the explanation. So I'm going to separately test loquats and raw jackfruit. Okay.

Yeah. Thank you. The people needed to know. Yeah, yeah. Devin, the dude also asks any point to pressure frying for home cooking. Best info I found online points to its speed and tenderizing ability for tougher chickens have decades ago.

Yeah, I am a tougher chicken have decades ago, for sure. Well, okay. So it's interesting. Obviously, the professionals pressure for I don't have personal experience with it. Now there. We answered some questions a while ago, from I should probably do it for the next book, because it's part of the theme. It's not just low temperature cooking. It's, it's like all forms of moisture management. And this is a form of moisture management. So I should in fact, deal with it. The people who used to sell pressure fryers stopped selling them, I'm guessing because of horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible liability problems. Can you imagine like having someone pressurized oil? And when you read the when you read the manuals for modern day pressure cookers, and they mentioned like frying, they're like, nope, nope. But that said, I would love to. I would love to try it. And you know, but I don't have any I don't have any influence, my guess any first hand knowledge? My guess is that, since it's the way all the professionals do it, that it produces a better product? I have never tried it. This is why so look, one of the advantages of pressure cooking is one you Yes, as you say there's probably some tender zation effect of the of the of the meat due to the pressure. You know, why not just test like a pressure proof, right. So this is why most of the time I low temp no matter what Kenji says, I think he's wrong on this crap. And, you know, we just need to do a side by side battle on this, like I do a proof I do a pre cook most of the time of my chicken before I fry it now where I never used to it used to be, I did it the old school way where I just turn the temperature of the oil way down low. And then you would like hit it a couple of times in and out go in and out to try to get the inside done at the right thing. But I was never cooking any of the old tough chickens. And I've never fried, an old tough bird. And it used to be the majority, if not all birds were old, tough birds, but they had better flavor. So like, I know, I should try to get some old like roasting fouls and just pressure cook them and see whether the breast meat is even palatable at that point. That's why I usually use that stuff for soup. Soap. Because I mean, the flavor is really good. But Americans just don't like to eat chicken. Do Americans like to eat chicken and stuff? I hate to chicken, my mind talking to the microphone decides he's hugging the microphone, which is weird. But normally she hates the microphone, but she's like, she's trying out a new thing. She Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like some sort of sign of like, love and respect. You know, like when a dog goes up and puts it's like head on your knee. She's doing that to the microphone. It's like, you know, it turns out the sound when you make sound comes out of the front of your mouth. And then if you point it into the microphone,

it's just trying to sound like one of those old smokers with the thing up their throat.

Yeah. Oh my god. We already talked about that on air, right? No, no, no, we never spoke about my most embarrassing moment. No,

please say that now.

Do I know it? You know it? What is it? It's

not food related. I know. Tell me. I believe I said

it sounds like it's an issue so we can talk about it.

So the Stasi and I both have a habit of putting our foot like not so much our foot as like all the way down to our knees into our mouths at various points. Yeah, like, like true like like a German knee high socks. They can get our foot that far into our into our mouth. But Wait, which one? So I was at my so I grew up watching peanuts, you know that like Snoopy peanuts? You know Charlie Brown and Snoopy used to play what's called a jaw harp. Right some people call it like a you know, I don't they use a different term which I won't use because I don't even understand like how it's related but jaw harp, right? And it goes beyond me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me or me. And it's like shaped almost like a liar with like a little like metal spring in it and you put it in your mouth and you hum. And you you do the spring and when you mean you're mute and so Snoopy played one in one of the peanuts specials, and I used to watch it as a kid. And I always had a fascination with this instrument, because it was like, required no skill in the same way that a kazoo requires no skill, right? Do you like as he was growing up? Matt kazoo fan growing up love Gazoo everybody loves a kazoo. Really? If you think about it, people say they hate a kazoo. But everyone if you if you hand them a kazoo, they start playing the kazoo. So I'm at college, and I'm a book fiend. I take anyone's books at all times. I like so my friend was graduating. And I went over to his room. And I'm looking at his book. So like, you know, for those who don't know, me, I don't so much pay attention to what's going on around me, right? And so I'm looking at his books to see if there's any books that you know, I can have because he doesn't want to ship them back to California where he's from. And I hear being me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Now, in my defense. I knew that the guy came from a musical family. Like, you know, his, his dad was a professional musician. His brother was a musician. Like they come from a musical family. So I'm hearing me, me, me, me. I'm like, I turn around and go in my best hate voice. Hey, who's got the job. And I turn around, and it is his grandfather who had throat cancer with a trach and a little microphone. And he was holding the microphone up to his throat saying something to somebody. And I was like, bye. And then I walked up, and that was probably most embarrassed. I've ever been. Every once in a while I say to visor who's got the job. And they like, goodbye.

Your reflexes are just too fast. You thought of that too quickly.

Yeah, well, but I was so excited. I was like, you know, I've only seen a couple of times in my life. I've owned one I went and found one and bought one pre internet days. I'm like, here's someone playing one in the room or I am you.

Can you tell the one about? Forehead?

No. Why? No, no. No.

You're gonna be off the air for a whole month people forget.

No, no,

we were at a table. Oh, friend. Yeah, no, but take

it from there.

No, it's not even that good. Because you have to know the players and I can tell you who the players are. Basically, I say a guy's got a big forehead, huh? You know, the person was like, That's my brother. But like, you know, like standard stuff, but it's just like, it's like a mutual friend. So the Stasi I've always said it

leave. You gotta sit there. Were there as the dinner

is fine. It's fine. His head. His forehead was large.

The job thing is way worse. Oh, yeah, way worse. Go ahead.

Yeah, whatever. Anyway, I'm sure that technology has gotten a lot better since then.

Oh, my God, wait. Um, okay. So there's a person on the line. Do you want to go and talk to them? Yeah, like, if you make it seem as though I don't. I forgot about them for a minute.

All right. Yes. Let's talk. Let's talk. CALLER

HI, there my own.

Yeah. Hey, doing?

Hey, Dave. This is it. This is Morgan. I'm super glad I called in, right before you went off the air for a month, but I have two questions. I'm gonna ask the first one. And then we'll see if the social lesson we get the second one. So I'm, I'm interested in doing recipe development on vegan ice creams or any, again, frozen desserts? Do you have a recommendation for what kind of machine I can use them to, like, you know, 1000 to $2,000 range that will give me like really accurate test results. When I scale up to a larger type of equipment.

That's real cheap. That's so like, first of all, like how,

as EMI

Yeah, right? How? How handy Are you? Are you handy with

pretty darn handy? Okay.

I mean, yeah, pretty cuz, you know, it's like, sub 1000. Right? As far as I remember, it's been a long time since I've searched, you're looking at something that will, you know, you're not looking at doing like one off stuff like, like doing ln or even like, trying to get us packages, which are much more expensive. Like, usually, you know, everything sub 1000 is like those countertop, kind of home stuff. And the problem with those is just the refrigeration units just simply are not powerful enough. So you're never going to be mimicking the batch times that you're going to get out of a real like, you know, commercial, like more than more than $6,000 machine, right? So it's like, you know, and the difference between a machine that has a batch time of like 20 minutes, and the difference between that and something that can have a batch time, more like eight minutes. is enormous in terms of testing for the ultimate texture that you're going to get out of the out of the product. So I would say if you are handy and I'm also always hesitant to have people buy used equipment, but you know, the generation of ice cream machines that people used to use in restaurants that are relatively small, like tabletop ish, but big still run off of a 110 are still air cooled, right stuff that makes your life easy. Like for instance, the old, the old, Carpigiani lb, lb, one hundreds, like, those used to be like top of the line machines for their size, but they haven't been made in like a decade. So it might be possible to buy one, I think spares are still out there. And I haven't looked but spares are still out there, you might be able to get one or find a restaurant or something it's closing down and get one back when I was going to try to get my own ice cream maker they Carpigiani used to make a very small vertical machine that was functionally the same size as like the lillo's and those kinds of inexpensive, inexpensive beating $500 machines, but was originally like a $3,000 machine that, you know, you used to be able to get for like 800 bucks, or there abouts. I haven't looked for one but I also haven't seen one in in a zillion years. But it's good for like kind of like prototyping work. I would say that it's a tough it's a tough thing. If you're just looking I mean like, I don't know if this makes any sense. I mean, I would do an eBay search and, or even Craigslist or look at online auctions and see if you can get one. But then you have to be willing to realize you have to realize that no matter how much of a tinkerer you are tinkering with refrigeration is a huge pain in the butt because unless you have some sort of illegal connection to an H vac thing, you have to hire a real, you know, a real refrigeration person to come in and look at it because no one will sell you the refrigeration stuff without the proper permits. You know what I mean? No one like even for the modern stuff, which shouldn't necessarily be an issue in terms of the refrigerants like no one will deal with you. And so I in general have stayed away from working with work working with trying to tinker with refrigeration. Cheese, you're in a tough spot there.

Jimbo from the chat says the Musso pola 5030 is a 1200 used on Amazon and he thinks it's a solid buy for this purpose.

Yeah, I have to look at it. What's the batch time on that sucker?

Jimbo be fast. Yeah.

Anyway, so Ricardo tating. On this, what's your what's your second question?

You do recipe development or is that going to be just way too fast compared to the commercial equipment,

not liquid nitrogen is fine for recipe development, you just got to you know, as long as you get the, I would take a very standard base, and then do it with liquid nitrogen. So you get a feel for it. Get the rubber scrapers when you're doing the KitchenAid don't try to do it by hand. And then realize that, you know, 10 times out of 10 most people either under or over freeze with liquid nitrogen it's very hard to get exactly the right. The right you know, freeze level. You also have to be a little bit careful because it forms so much that it's somewhat difficult to completely control the overrun just because there's so much bubbling on it. So, you know, I love liquid nitrogen ice cream we used to that's how we used to make ice cream for people at events just because it was easier than going over to the pastry department and wheeling over their tailors and their you know, their tailors and their carpet Giannis and then they would bitch that we didn't clean them out right and they needed it for their class Baba Baba, Baba Baba would be so like liquid nitrogen was just how we would make it. You know, we had pacojet too. But that was always hard because the freezers we're never quite in the right order to do pacojet aisle a minute. And then if it was spun out beforehand, it would melt anyway, like it was always just easier for us to do ln out of the out of a KitchenAid. Once you have the rubber scraper, and it's definitely if you have an easy supply of liquid nitrogen nearby. It's it's not it's expensive on a on a batch per batch basis, because you're using probably more than a liter of liquid nitrogen to make a liter of ice cream, right? But in terms of its initial outlay, to see whether or not you like what you're doing, it's relatively less expensive. You can also honestly just you know, use one of the old get a rival salt nice if you're only doing it occasionally, it's just it's hard to be 100% consistent. I've had good luck with an old drive Oh, I've had good and bad luck with White Mountain because the wood Dashers on the White Mountain. The official you know, old school one, the wood Dashers I've had, I've had some that I've had good luck with and I've had some that I've had bad luck with and I ascribe it to the fact that they want to use some old time wooden Dasher instead of some like modern like actual like Delrin or plastic. You know, Dasher? I don't know why the hell they do that. I don't need some sort of, you know, I'm not doing it to like, try to commune with my ancestors and trying to make freakin ice cream. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. That's great information. And my last question is, can I put 190 proof through the spins off?

Well, it's unsafe. I mean, it's just an explosion hazard. You know, so it's not going to hurt it, it's not going to hurt the spins all but, you know, it's, you know, the flashpoint of that stuff is I got to look it up, but it's probably room temperature below. So it's, you know, we don't we don't like making a lot of alcohol vapor. So I would just call I would caution you I would caution you there All right,

what's the what's the what's a good upper limit?

I don't know. I looked it up based on Flashpoint once is whatever I put into it, whatever I put in the manual, I don't have it off off the top of my head, you know, so I'm not worried about really anything that we do at the bar. And you know, like I say it won't hurt the unit is just you know, a lot of people are complacent when it comes to alcohol vapor ask anyone that's done traditional distilling, and then had some sort of a horrible fire as a result of vapors. So again, I'm not saying it will explode I just from a safety standpoint, as the manufacturer, I can't tell you to do anything where the where you have something that is possibly at or above the flashpoint of the of the liquid. It's just not it's not possible for me to even discuss it. You heard him saying

I just cut him off actually, because we got one more caller to sneak in here if we can.

Alright, caller you're on the air.

Hey, guys, one question as promised. I have a fried chicken question. We we made some version of hot chicken last night, on a whim and the texture the crust kind of sucked. And I'm wondering if you have any suggestions you know, tried and true techniques to just get a good a good crust even if it involves using some kind of modified starch, we have a couple of things on hands that we can use.