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hello and welcome to clean issues. This is Dave another host of cookies just coming to you on the network every Tuesday you know you know when anyway from riversweeps reimbursement plan joined as usual and started a hammer Lopes. You don't good. We got Matt in the booth who apparently is gonna get married soon. Oh, yeah, it's happening. Yeah. When's that? Next Friday? Next Friday? Yeah, where are you getting married? In Newport, Rhode Island. So fancy. I didn't realize you were so fancy super fancy. Fancy man. Is it are you going to be at the breakers are you going to is everyone going to be dressed in tuxedos you're going to have monkey Butler's. Sadly none of those things. Be right on Easterns beach. Are you from Rhode Island? No. My parents have lived there for the last like half a decade.

So sort of, especially the who's officiating are our best friends.

Have you given him her the cooking issues guide to wedding officiant No. I think he's gotta be alright on his own. I was told that I made that I made the Stasi his friend the wedding officiant I didn't How could I have made her cry? thought I've thought of the guide often. Yeah, no. Anyway, well, since what are you going to you're? You're gone next week, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So if we don't so happy happy wedding. Thank you have a good time.

What are you some advice Dave You

love what's what's your what's what are you doing for the wine slash liquor situation? What's going on there? Margarita. As signature cocktail. They tried to give me a drink recipe. I was like, No, thank you. I'll give you the recipe. What? Strong always give someone the recipe. They're gonna eff it up, but and then a keg of very good local brewery shout out to gray sail in Rhode Island. I like it a lot. And then I don't know what are we doing a bunch of wines Red White Rose. I don't remember where they're What are you doing for food? buffet style bunch of stuff. Most people went with the lobster. Gonna be like, real good. That's good. You know what? I hope they have to open it themselves. I hope there's like a good spread. Just a word of advice to anyone, whoever. If you should ever hang out with me. Don't sit anywhere near me. If I'm eating lobster. I mean, I feel like that's the whole wedding is going to be like that. I think we should give everyone individual tables because they will be spraying. Yeah, I've had. I've had people like get up move in disgust and like leave because of the general spray of lobster juice around me when I'm eating lobster because I still if you're serving someone lobster like that's it last year. You know what I mean? Yep. Also, I don't like crackers. I only like using my hands. I don't use any sort of device. I use only my teeth. Teeth. I have ever if you ever been one on the claws. I've almost broken my teeth on lobster shells cracking open the claws. But anyway. Lobster cracking different different days different story. What was that? Estas? Yeah. That was round one. Round one. Well, here's what happened. In fairness. I told Miss dasya that she wasn't allowed to put her foot on the table holding the microphones and jam the table up and down anymore. So it turns out I was wrong when her foot is not attached to anything. The vibration level is so high. Are you familiar with you familiar with the Tacoma Narrows Bridge galloping Gertie? Oh, yeah, yeah, put that video up. Yeah, for those of you that don't know, check that out. That was it's exact, almost exact same design as the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, in fact, but it had a resonant frequency that the wind used to make happen to it, I think was in the 30s. And there's videos of the wind hitting an adjuster right angle hitting the resonant frequency and the thing is going up and down like a jump rope until it finally snaps. So it turns out in the Stasi needs to keep her foot on the table because otherwise the resonant frequency is so hard that she rattles her phone out of her pocket. All kinds of crazy stuff friends mistake was mistake. What me telling you to take your foot off the table. Today we have half of the people we're going to have on the air with us today we have Jeremiah stone of Contra NYC and wild air and where how many of you have also the pizza place? What else you have now?

We're about to open a wine shop at a wine bar.

Okay, I'm gonna get into this in a second. We're going to have in a minute. I call them fabulous. Fabian van hausky. But I have always called them fabulous since I knew him when he was like 19 when he started coming to the French at

he was 18 he said he was 17 when he came with us. So yeah, I think he was 18 he lied

to me and said he was 21 because I had him drinking it. Yeah, so back. So anyway, so like well known, like, you know, at the top of the food game right now, I knew these guys back when so calling your questions, either your Jeremiah or fabulous related questions to 718-497-2128. That's 184972128. Fabulous. We'll be here in just a minute. So I knew both of these guys I knew. Fabulous when he started coming to the French Culinary Institute. He came twice. You came as a culinary student and then as a pastry student, but I'll wait for that for when he comes. It's his fault, by the way, people that the technique of blending and then centrifuging stuff is called from steel. No, we'll get into that later. But at the same time, Jeremiah, I think at one point was a student but I didn't really I don't know you when you were a student, right?

A little bit. Not really.

What were you there? We know him as he was running the events. Yeah. Events in the amphitheater. So the way the French Culinary Institute used to work, maybe still does is we have like an amphitheater. And every was it like Wednesday usually, or like Tuesdays Wednesdays in the middle of the week, they'd get very well known chefs, or interesting chefs, or anyone who come and do what I thought were pretty awesome food demos.

Yeah. For demos. Did you know private events? classes with you? Harold McGee? Yeah,

right. But I mean, we had a lot of interesting people coming through doing like weird cooking stuff. And so it was like a great opportunity to kind of meet people like learn new techniques, see what was going on. And so Jeremiah was was down there. And so you know, one point like we were always friendly, but you were kind of my mortal enemy because I would go eff up your kitchen

You have to play so if the place up you are not my MO I don't know where you're getting that from. You might have effed up the kitchen, but I, I love you guys. We were always friends. Yeah.

Oh, yes. Fabulous. So he's, he's coming in. So anyway, so like, I knew these guys way back when and then I figured they both do something but I had no idea that we're gonna start something together. Yes, weird.

No, it was weird because I actually when he first started interning for you, I didn't like him at all. Why not? Please, right here and interns were very entitled and oh, you know, they just they wanted to be part of the whirlwind. So

talking about you know, a fabulous. So, Jeremiah is talking crap about you says, when you first came to the FCI, he didn't like you because all of all of the interns were. He said, entitled.

I didn't like him either.

So then, how did you end up sometimes? So like, did you like him before? After he had $10,000 with a sneaker stolen from him? I still don't like. So those of you that don't know, Jeremiah, what was is a sneaker head. He came to me one day, and he was like, I had $10,000 for the sneaker stole from me. I was like, Oh, it's $1,000 with a sneaker.

Yeah, but you're assuming that that's $10,000 of, you know, $70 sneakers? That could be like 10 shoes. You know?

Was it what was it was a lot of shoes. I

like maybe 12 shoes? Yeah, just very rare. But it was it was I don't think it was 10,000 I think it was maybe 5000 Who did it? Oh, something random because they were they came in they saw speakers and I wouldn't

be random. Who knows who? Random divas like man these sneakers.

It's hard to explain I mean, like it's easy now

walk around with like cell phones and like look, look up the value crap on the internet before they steal it. Oh, only steals your good books. And the good sneak up

you see that they break in and they start to take the TV. They take all the electronic equipment and then the TV anymore. And then he sees a pair with this was 10 years ago is Jordans. You know, this is when this is when the biggest TV out was 32 inches

of computers and yeah,

and yes, the random thief happened to know about these fancy sneakers.

Well, they're like, you know, everyone knows. I mean, everyone, if you steal you steal you steal everything. Yeah, you know, you know, Jordans are worth you know.

Alright, so now, you two hated each other.

And we didn't have each other. I just I just when I first. I didn't like him because I didn't like any of like, I ended up liking most of the interns, but it's just that when you first meet them?

Well, it's like you call them entitled. But how fabulous. How much did the FCI cost at that point? A lot. Big a lot. Lot. Yeah. Like, like a lot.

I don't know, how much was it? Like? 40?

Yeah, just push, right. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. So it's like, this is what Anastasia never understood. We had these interns, they were real crappy. And this dasya who ran the program after Mindy, or you know, who ran the program first, who left the Stasi, and never ever, ever, ever understood that these people were not working for us. Even though we were making them work, they were also paying $40,000. And this was one of the perks was that they got to be in this program. So Anastasia never kind of understood this. You don't I mean, that's what you're saying that sense of entitlement came from, but the fact of the matter is, is that they were both. Like, they were both customers, and employees. And it's a hard line to kind of read I

think, you know, it's also especially when one was in an intranet with you, you just got thrown into, I mean, everyone was there at the time, like all the chefs who were like, sort of relevant at the time were there and you got to hang out with them and work with them. And you know, like I even with Johnny that I worked with afterwards like me and him had a relationship prior to me working with him. So it was just a very weird situation where just just knew a lot of people and then you know, in the in the very sort of short and like very close plays proximity. Yeah, so I think it was just very easy to get lost in in that other than just working and that's where a lot of it came. You know, I also didn't like a lot of them.

Oh no, you hate everyone and still do really Yeah, I mean the thing that was good back in the day that would like we keep we pop even sitting you know we pop now owns one of the biggest clubs and he apparently has the best stereo system in all of Southeast Asia.

You know that guy the pastry chef nightshade is we pops causing

Wow, that's great. We pop to pop the pop up, bam, but you can come in bam. That's all

as I said it's there. So this guy he's one of the engineers who came up with no Miku he so he worked on he was really cool which was been whatever you think, no mukou was was the reason that circulators are inexpensively priced. Now immersion circulators used to be like 1000 bucks, they were 2000 bucks then they were 1000 bucks, then they were 800 bucks. on the flat screen TV of the culinary world Yeah, and then we pop was like, why is it cost that much? He started doing the Nomi coup and then as soon as no Miku hid, everything was 400 bucks and now it's like 200 bucks. You know what I mean? So it's like, I think I think people don't give the poppy pot enough credit for that. But remember like, he he shortened his name from we pops to Poppy pot to we pot super pot dish to because he couldn't fit the name on his on his chef's whites at the French Culinary Institute.

And he came up I thought it just continued underneath his armpit. Yeah. And he was like,

he was like, just call me banned. And we're like, not

what was his brother's name?

I forget. Oh, yeah. His brother's name was like, it was even better.

But he came in and we're all like, hey, and then we're like, Hey, you tie and he's like, how do you guess? You know what I mean? Like

17 character like

we pop. We perhaps could visit we pop Cho. Garter ball. No gutter balls. No, good. Well, who was gutter ball? Ross? Oh, yeah, like Ross. Yeah, no, you

know, Ross was yatse. Oh, Ross was yes.

He made those you don't know all the interns. So we had this program with the French Culinary Institute called the tech program, which for a long time was housed in a closet in the basement of the amphitheater. And then we missed him in the Stasi started working. We moved up in the world literally to the fourth floor and were put into a garden the closet garbage.

Well, no. Then we ran out of the hall the the we're, you know, outside of the

Yeah, but he's saying that it used to be a garbage closet. Yeah. That was that was

when we moved. Oh, yeah. We were on the hallway. Hallway. Yeah. And we're only like a couple of we moved in, they didn't bother cleaning. So literally, there was garbage dumpsters in there, and that students would just hurl or that you know that also the staff would just hurl bags of garbage into the dumpsters. And so if you've ever been in a dumpster room, there's like that line of garbage at the at the level of the dumpster where there's like that spray of garbage. It's like you ever like get like on a griddle, you know when a griddle is not protected. And you can see like the pancake line from when pancakes are flipped. You can see that line of grease and pancakes splatter on the wall. So it was like that in the garbage room at the at the toss level. And no one ever cleaned it

when people were informed that it wasn't the garbage anymore. So they kept on putting garbage working and someone would dump a bag,

or they have an event and they would just shove every chair on the floor into into our room. So like I just got this is where like, Okay, this people this is where I started becoming impatient. I used to be Okay, seriously, my life even asked my wife, I used to be a completely patient person because I worked with myself by myself for myself. Like when I worked for the lawyers, I did my own job. I didn't like no one. I didn't have to work with anyone. I just did my job. And I went home. So like everything was very mellow. As soon as I had to start, like interacting with people, that's when I lost all my patience. Like I think I had a finite amount of patience, and it was just never tapped. And now I'm just at zero all the time. I mean, at 100 I guess the boiling point. So yeah, I used to just walk in and I would just pick up the chairs and just throw them down the hallway. Bah, bah bah by throwing down the hallway. Because I'm like,

Listen, no exaggeration.

I'm like, if they have, like, so little first of all, when I first started working with the French culinary they said they were gonna build me a lab. Right? And went from build me a lab to maybe will fire you.

Right, maybe you could live in.

Maybe? Well, they didn't start with the trash room. They started with a cubicle. Then they're like, okay, okay, you're too messy to be in a cubicle.

Know what you do every day. And then you just wrote on the form OTB

TVs stands for Oregon. Oh, TV office of off track betting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm famously This is, by the way, how Anastasia and I got into Apple heads. I got into another argument with a partner slash employer who was asking me a bunch of garbage that made no sense. Yeah. And I'm like, You guys can't Oh, we'll save it for when we do Applehead doll.

So no, just to say now we can bring it up again. What's Applehead? So work together.

You guys can't work together in other things. This is when we were starting starting a business together. We're starting Yes. So like they're like you in the Stasi. You can start your own business together. And this is when we're doing Booker and DAX. And by the way, at that time, Anastasia, they weren't going to give Anastasia even ownership Booker and DAX. So like, let's wait and see. This is like, you know what I mean? Let's wait and see. Yeah, so I was like, god dammit. I was like, if the Stasi and I want to go make apple headstalls together. We want to start an apple ahead business. You're not gonna stop me. That's pretty much exactly how that happened. And it's pretty much exactly what I said.

Yeah. Was this was this Chinatown times?

This No, this is before Chinatown times. This is when we use we also Booker indexes first headquarters was in the back of milkbar commissary. Oh, yeah, remember that? Yeah, man. Tozi hated us because we were such a mess.

Every time you walk in there, all the milk Her people

yeah would kill you. Yeah, they tried they tried very much turns out me probably my age now I'm probably easy to kill but back then I was much more difficult to kill

kaka who's laughing now who's the multimillion dollar business book index

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And then I had to throw it all away when I got rid of my house I was like saw this stuff that I had like carried around for years like little pieces of like weird equipment that I've carried around for years finally got rid of you know what I did find the other day. And by the way, before Jeremiah and fabulous opened contra while there they came two ways that we used to have a lab on 54 eldritch, which was by the is the ground spitting capital of the world as far as I know it's bidding. So like we tried to video we tried to do a video when we were going to sell the sizzle. And we're trying to do a video in our lab in our lab and the person who was making us could not get a clean sound take without a loogie being hacked in the background. In fact, four years before Peter came from the Museum of food and drink. Peter came from the Museum of food and drink is now my generalized ringtone him yelling in pain as he knuckles into the puffing gun the first time you ever tried to hit it is my ringtone. But before that it used to be it used to be from the Sears all shoot like a giant right outside of our thing and so we would just stand out there and like you couldn't like literally you couldn't do a 22nd take without a Louie Han. And then when you walk oh, I saw coconut feet. Yeah, and I was with you. Remember, yeah, so there was a guy

who worked at the restaurant next door

he used for he'd stand he would sit outside on a lawn chair peeling his feet in front of his restaurant peeling his feet onto the ground it used to like make a little pile of shredded coconut on the ground. And so we called him coconut

like a vegetable peeler Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, it was like a like a Swiss like a cool Reagan's Swiss field

and then people were like I remember forget somebody they'll remain nameless like you guys have it's so easy you guys you know all the resources you guys have meanwhile, like moody and coconut fee the reason literally we don't have a lab anymore is because we didn't have the money to fix the roll up gate. And the role of gate was so broken that the Stasio one day she yelled at me so they're her word for like the like the general like female stuff is mica

everything everything down there's mod C'mon, you're gonna break

my monkey baby making your area and capacity and yeah, so anyway, so like one day I'm like, I don't need to be there for you to open the office you can just open the office you freeze and fill God because like I was doing something else I don't want to in the Stasi would not come into work unless she knew I was already going to be there. She would not come to work unless she knew I was already going

to open the gate. That place was scary so then she had

someone open it and then she stood there hanging on it hanging on it like like like a gymnast or like a monkey waiting for me to show up and like there's aren't you aren't you want me to break my back up? And then we had some guy quote unquote fix it. All he did was pump eight quarts of lift grease into it. So every time we touch the door from then on out, like we did in Greece. Stinky stinky lift Greece, and it starts never like to hell with it. We're out here. And literally that's how we lost the land. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful space. Anyway, so fabulous before you open contra work there for us downstairs with the Jesus poster. Oh my god downstairs. So old school, New York. We were talking to the landlord. And we're like, can we rent something downstairs? He's like, What do you want it for? And I was like We need to store some stuff. He's like, Okay, I thought you were going to open another illegal gambling joint in the basement because this entire block was illegal gambling joints. And like, you know, coconut feet people. So like we we went in, we went downstairs and in the basement or for our storage room was just a room.

A room mattress but nine log

mattress, the print of a refrigerator. You don't have refrigerators who have been there for a million years. And note there's no cleaning, they have the line where the coils are on the back of the wall, a picture of Jesus, a mirror on the ceiling, and then a bathroom with just a hose. And that's it.

And the locks are on the outside. Only the locks are only

on the outside. You

walk past that room to get to the other room where you kept all your stuff. Yeah, it was amazing.

Amazing place. I miss it. So then anyway, but what I came across and you were there for this fabulous the very very, very first series all that we ever made the round one I had

your own with the first one was set up CI when you were Thanksgiving, shoot it through sheet one. Yeah.

I know you made the shower. You made the showerhead version at FCI. Right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Right before I left with Ember how people got red torch, but I have, I should say have the very first container type that wasn't like showerhead remember, used to burn the hell out of ourselves that those first prototypes that weren't contained. That's how we figured it out. We're like trying to shoot it through this mesh, and then our knuckles would catch on fire. And we're like, maybe we should enclose it. Oh, by the way, Dak says to me a couple of weeks ago, he's like, Dad, how come you don't know how to use Instagram or the internet? I'm like, because I don't care. You're and he's like, someone on Instagram said that Dave Chang invented the Sears. Oh, my God. I was like, I was like, I love Dave. But that's just not the case. Why is it I was telling you last night you don't just ask you Lopez says I'm not allowed to like a post that she puts up? No. He'll like she's like, it seems robotic like a

story. And I said we're close enough where I don't care that you like a story.

If I like your story, doesn't that help other people see your story? No, no. Yeah, true,

Jeremiah.

If he I trust Jeremiah skills over your skills and stuff here,

but what does he like? Say I like it.

He'll DM me. I like to

hit the like button. So there's no like button for the story.

You press on it and put a heart on it. You press on it puts a heart on it.

Nobody just sending her the heart. Yeah.

So you guys is opening a wine store? How are you getting around the laws here? What laws?

We're currently navigating all of them? Well,

you have to have a separate owner for the wine store. Technically, right. A separate LLC?

Yeah, well, so we have a wine shop and a wine bar opening next to each other. But they're, we're allowed to as liquor license owners. We have one premise license, which is the shop and then you can you can only if you have an on premise, which is what you have in the restaurant, you can only have one off premise.

I didn't know you could have any. So you could have 100 restaurants in one shot. I didn't know you were allowed any

if you're importing you can't. But if you're only if you have a sort of, let's say a restaurant, you can't

really you're gonna have one. Yeah. And then the problem is

when you're bringing alcohol in, you can't have importer, and also like a retail shop.

Right? Well, you also can't technically have a grocery store and a wine store. Yeah,

because they split beer and grocery as one category. This is this is a super old law to basically make it fair for the people who are in, you know, some beer and grocery is allowed to be sold together. And wine has to be sold separately. So you can't This is New York people. Yeah, you can't sell a piece of cheese in the wine shop. Yeah, no, no. So it

also like remember, you can't This is why Trader Joe's wine store is like a block away from Trader Joe's, the Trader Joe's and why Whole Foods started a wine store on 59th street and they couldn't because it must be separate buildings, like separate structures all sorts of you can't just

have like a different entrance. It needs to be like a different. You need like demising walls

and this law clearly this law clearly, you know, is important because no one in California like can get good wine at all. Where you can buy wine like anywhere. Yeah, well in

California, you can have a restaurant and sell wine. They're in the same space. So why are we here? Just crazy

because we're not we're not going to sink into the to the ocean.

Like it's like that's never going to people have been saying that since I'm a kid. That it's gonna sink off fly off into the ocean. That was

gonna fly the first.

Well what do you bring Jeremiah? Alright, so

talking about the wine store. When's this going to open? We're gonna open in September. Now you guys were early on. Is that a? Is that like a real open in September or? That's a

Yeah,

we hope it You're jinxing yourself is what I'm saying? Yeah.

It's gonna open before next September.

Yeah. All right. So listen. Those of you that don't know, I don't know if maybe you've been under a rock or you haven't been paying attention. You guys have made how long ago? Do you open Contra? Like four years? Three years? Six years ago? What? What? Six years? What? What? Oh, my God. This time accelerate. Yeah. Oh my god six years ago. 2013. Yeah. Geez, Louise. Oh my god. So anyway, six years. What about while they're four years ago? Four year old? Yeah. All right. So for those of you that don't know, over the past six years, Jeremiah and and fabulous have become kind of huge powerhouses in the food world. They're everywhere. They're all over the place. I knew him when. But I did

know you. We I mean, we often talk about this. But I mean, the reason why the restaurants exist is because you because we met basically, through you? LL appreciate

it. And they they have a cookbook out. How's that doing?

It's doing great. We're in our second pressing. It's called a very serious cookbook. And it's on sale now.

On the Amazon, anyway, so a drone will bring it to you. So six years ago, Jeremiah, and fabulous when they first opened, they were the earliest people that were playing at the level that they were playing at in New York City that I'm aware of. That was a food place. Food place food, that food, food libraries. Metalocalypse. Anyway, food library, they were the first place I know of at that level of food that was very dedicated to natural wines. Is that true? I mean, that's my impression. But is that true? New York?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I would, I would give credit to two of our good friends. I know your hearts. And hooray, we are who were running 360 in Red Hook in oh four, which was like a really simple menu. They did like a $25. Set menu, just like simple, kind of fresh food, great ingredients. And just and they that was really one of the end. And also EC from Lawrence yard, like much more bistro driven. But I would say in Manhattan, we were like there was not a tasting menu, not a restaurant that was, you know, trying to do something that was elevated that had an entire list that was natural. What we classify as natural wine, even though I mean,

stupid. And at the time I made fun of you like relentlessly.

Yeah, everyone did.

I mean, you don't know.

Yeah, I still do. But I mean, and so I think we've gone like kind of full circle with the like, all like, I was talking to Jack Schramm, you know, our head bartender, who is also a huge proponent of the natural wines. And, in fact, his ex girlfriend used to work for you for a long time. Mackenzie? Yes. But the thing is, that I think even like that, the higher that like the old school, sommeliers kind of come around somewhat to your point of view, right? Well, I

just think that we've gotten to the point where if you just need to have like, some of these wines on your list for younger people to relate to. Yeah, but

what is I don't get it. I honestly I like it's I don't understand how it's happened. Here's what I think. And you tell me why I'm wrong. Because I'm sure I am. It's like, you have like the old school like to play the old school sommelier game, right? It's all it's only about, like, super expensive. It's about can I get this rare, super expensive thing, right? There's only mean by old school. So that's like, like John George 20 years ago. So what I'm saying is like, no, like that.

There's a generation between now and that would right

but like a lot of that generation still, like people like in their late 40s for my age, right, like late 40s. Like these people still grew up.

What's the luxury thing if it's pricey, there must be good. Well,

but there's also like, there's certain things that are recognized as the top of their of their game like you, you know, have like, how like how much of the you know, the old girls have you had like, this year, that year, etc, etc, some kind of showmanship of like, some lesser known things, but by and large, the the people out spending money, if they were gonna drop money, they drop money on something that was known, had a certain kind of pedigree and it was kind of about that, you know what I mean?

When people Yeah, people don't want to spend money on something that they can't you know, they can't fully predict or, you know, there's if there's not very little consistency, or if there's no understanding of exactly what you know, they're going to experience because you're Everything Is Everything is so dialed in, you know, because when you're talking about conventional wines, so much so much of the wine is about What like what your learning is through? You know, I know what that like this year should take. That's why they that's why those guys can, you know they advance arms and when you do your masters, they can blind stuff they can, you know, that's why they say that because it's something that you can study. It's something tangible that you can study and learn certain years, certain regions, certain grapes have a certain profile, but they don't have, you know, they don't always really appreciate the wines that are simply made, because this is really how people used to make wine. But it's kind of like when you're making wine to make wine when? Hundreds of years ago, hundreds

of years ago. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, by the way, it's like, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure you ever had wine. on my honeymoon. You totally like Greece or something. I was in Italy. I pulled over to the side of the road. And this lady was like, you know, try my wine.

Yeah, not everyone does it well, and it was

garbage

was like very young guy. Like, we were like, we were like, like drinking Prosecco. Like it was soda pop, or I mean, I'm not saying I was like, I need to be fancy. But even I,

ya know, I mean, but there's no one saying that. Everyone that makes wine just because they're doing it, you know, at home and that is done right?

I make my make my cars the way we made them hundreds of years ago. Not at all. You do you build everything yourself? Even if I'm bad at it. Yeah.

But no, but I mean, it's I mean, it's less about, it's not like, Oh, we've we've come up with all these ways to improve things. It's just, we've come up with ways to this. I mean, making wine is one of the oldest, you know,

Bevin conventional is old.

Yeah, I mean, but like making wine conventionally like it's it's brought it to a place where there's you know, it, it's dialed in. Which I don't I don't necessarily

think this guy in front of me eating pizza with a knife and fork. What country people? Are they speaking English? Can you lip read? Yeah,

they're speaking English.

What the hell? No, no.

What's worse, eating a pizza with a knife and fork or eating crust and first? What's worse crust and first or knife and fork knife and fork? I'd say knife and fork worse than Kristan first.

Yeah, well, no Crescent versus the worst thing ever. Really? Yeah.

So one of the taxes dirtbag buddies handle, like we had a birthday party. And we took a picture and sent a picture to Miley, my sister in law who runs the Food Network magazine. And she says nothing but this WTF crest first, and then we like zoomed in on the picture. And like, of all these kids there, she noticed that this one kid was eating crust first, and I was like, oh, yeah, he can't come back to my house.

Yeah, that's just like, there's no sense to why.

Yeah. Why do you eat the handle?

Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

You know what I mean? You've just eaten the

handle. It's like cooking with a pan and you grab

the one also, you know what I don't like I don't like when there's no oil so that I can oil the crust at the end and eat it like it's bread. I like to oil the crust at the oil. Olive oil. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so the middle generation you're talking about I think it's like the Parker backlash, right? The people so like the older generation, maybe like

Paul Greco and Jacob Nalli. And like, you know, even Joey's A has a natural landmark. No, that's what I'm saying. No, but they're, they're more, you know, like, I think that they took an interest to you know, more affordable wines, new world, but

they're not affordable. That's the joke. They're not affordable, a little bit more, more than a first growth, but they're not affordable. Like in other words, like, here's here's what I don't get, right. It's like I can go out and for $20 I can get a really good bottle of conventional wine or I can get a lower end crapshoot. Right That to me, like that's the that's the OSHA lowering crapshoot. What do you think you're going like? Like, what natural wines are like less than 20? Most Come on? Yeah. At stores? Yes. No, yes. They're all 2020. And it's like, how much this one cost? This would

be at a store, this would be 3330. If you told me to bring a bunch of 20 other ones if,

let's say, what do we got?

So this is what I'll say, Okay, there's a there's a complete misconception that the overall cost of natural wine tends to be more expensive. But I would say more expensive than that, because you have such a range, but we're talking about dollars, like a couple bucks here, everything is in that, you know, 20 to $35 range. There's not a lot of wine that you're going to spend 50 that like a lot of natural wine that you're gonna spend $50 on and

why I don't think it has anything to do with the price. I think we're like wine is one of those things where if you like wine, you're gonna buy expensive wine regardless, I just think that these winemakers are just in line with what the food world is becoming you know, and I think a lot of it it's you know, when when we work with you, the food just like the tendency was to be like mother and and I use technology and do all these things to make the product Enter, and then that turn. And you know, now it's all about farming, where your vegetables come from, where everything's comes from, you know,

it's who was good at anything back in the day cared about that stuff, too.

Yeah, but I think it was a little I think it was a little less

they cared about. They cared about products being good, but not necessarily like seeing outside of, you know, now they're

just not, you know, that's not the case back then was when that's back when I mean, I mean, you remember our boards doing all of his

under sold or used to have to, he makes us took the time with whitebread. You know,

they sold me though, is like eight generations before any of us he opened freakin new tests in 1962. I mean, I think what like the technology stuff wasn't happening. Andre solar didn't have a vacuum machine. And when I asked Andre solar, why he never had a vacuum machines, I buy fresh every day, I do not need a vacuum. And

like, but I think it was, it was like, you know, very few people had the economical capacity to run a restaurant that could be technological, at some degree and also care about the produce they were bringing in.

But no way. Although the people who are technological, we're all spending ridiculous amounts of money on their food, all buying from like local, all stuff. We look at where like Wiley used to buy his fish from look at the food cost of someone like crazy food costs with someone like Lee Brandt back in the day who was running like over 50% food cost because he was shipping in this very specific thing from a very specific thing. It's a false argument, not talking about the quality and