Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This episode is brought to you by Paris gourmet, delivering specialty foods and ingredients right to your restaurant, bakery and bar. Learn more at Paris gourmet.com.

You're listening to heritage radio network where a member supported Podcast Network broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, this year we're celebrating 10 years of food radio. For the past decade we've been taking you behind the scenes of farms, restaurant breweries, school cafeterias and more. It's been 10 years and we're just getting started. Find us on heritage Radio network.org.

Cooking she's coming to you live on the network every Tuesday from you know not with the stars to the hammer Lopez who was here but let because she thought I was going to be even later Sukkot also joined in the studio with Jack Schramm, what are you the nail the nail? Jack the nail Schramm head bartender of existing conditions we are waiting on and this is because the airplane was late not because he himself was late. James Schroeder from Chicago has a new book out on Mezcal. So we're going to talk to him about all this Mezcal stuff. We have cats in the network here. How you doing? Good, thanks. Yeah, we got Matt in the booth. Hello. Hello. So when the Stasi gets back in when James finally shows up, we're gonna have a full full height. In fact, we will have more humans in microphones. You have

a call or that we could do

all right caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. Just had a quick question for you.

I wanted your thoughts on what makes a good restaurant chef and what makes a good home cook.

Oh, yeah, that's good. They're two they're two very, very different things in question. Yeah. Very, very different thing. So a good restaurant chef. First of all, there are people who are great chefs and great cooks. If they're bad. They're not great chefs. There are people who are great chefs who aren't great cooks. Most of them at one time had some chops, right. You have to to get to that level. Right. But being a good chef, like nowadays, it also means being a personality. Right. But that didn't used to be what it was. It used to be and still is. You have the ability to run a kitchen that makes money, right? So you have to be able to choose dishes that satisfy whatever market it is you're aiming at. Most of us think of either high end chefs or people doing funky things but like you choose something right that you want to do. You hit that market, you can get your food cost down, and you can like crank out a consistent product day after day and you can convince your staff to show up, not call out, and like in general care about the food that they're making. And you are a great, you are a great chef. That is what a great chef is. Yes. Step

one be a good leader. Yeah,

you have to be a good leader. Now. It used to be me, there's some various, you know, kind of, you know, do you lead through fear? Do you lead through love, in fact, like a lot of it used to be very, again, this is not somewhat This is toxic, but it used to just be very kind of like animal pheromone based. So like, a chef would have to come in, like an alpha ape like, and then like, you know, like walk up to like a line cook station and just outperform them, what's up, and just have to outperform them. And that's how you prove you were a good chef. I don't think that works anymore. What the hell we got also Jackie molecules in the studio, every union Oh, my God, Jackie molecules. Whereas a home cook, really, you know, you can spend any amount of money you want. You just have to make food that's delicious. And part of being a home cook also depends on who you are. They're home cooks that like people. Every every cook likes people enough to cook them food without poisoning them. Right. But I mean, what I mean is, is that, like, I'm one of those home cooks that I like being in the kitchen, maybe rather than being seated with everybody, you know what I mean? Just because it means that I don't really, I can just cook, you know what I mean? And that's how some people express social, social behavior.

Here you come and go from the social engagement as you please. Because you gotta be watching the food.

That's why That's why Jack Jack, would you rather be behind the bar or on the floor? I

would prefer to be behind the bar with just enough social interaction. There

you go. So anywho you know, I think that they're very, they're very, very different problems. And I think a lot of people who are excellent home cooks, right, you know, first of all, they just would not enjoy busting down that like, 12 box of chicken for the day. You know what I mean? Is when enjoy it, like,

yeah, they don't get into that weird, like, you know, like, you're, you're totally zoned out, but also very zoned in just the catharsis of just the same action over and over again. Yeah, here. Let

me look good. Let me get me give you a hint on the difference. First of all, most people who are professional chefs don't, they don't cook that much at home, because they're freaking sick of it by the time they get home. But invite a chef over to your house. Right? And then say something like, just do something fun like this, just have a bunch of carrots in your fridge, have a bunch of extra carrots in your fridge, and then tell the chef, the chef's going to like depends on the chef's Some chefs are like, I ain't doing I ain't doing squat. I'm just gonna sit and drink wine crap on you. And like, you know what I mean? Or some, some will be like, can I help? You know what I mean? And when they, when they say, can I help? Right? What you want to do is say this to them. Yeah, you could, you could peel it and cut it from how you want the carrots, I don't know, like diced, and then when you're gonna, you're gonna, they're gonna walk away. And then if you look back at them, and every carrot in your fridge has been converted into a dice, you're dealing with a chef, because they're just gonna be like, the amount you need is the amount you got. And we're going to do this. We're going to use carrots all week. So I'm dice and um, you know, I mean, they dice all the carrots. You know, what I'm saying? Is he says, you know, I'm talking about

you in the long decades, or the turducken.

What do you mean,

at the holiday party when we cook the chicken and we and you said, I'm not touching that thing. And then like, 30 minutes later, you were over there slicing it up.

It's because no one stepped up. I hate carving in public because I just don't like doing it. You know why? Everybody has something to say about the way something is carved. Everybody has something to say about the way something is carved. So I just don't I don't get near it. And

the wrongest voices are the loudest. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Generally, always, most of the time. Most of the time if you have something to say you should not Yeah. Like in general, I think in life. So I'm going to save this, by the way, Anastasia, Anastasia, and I must ASEAN now is a Connecticut home. She has not a homeowner but a home person.

Okay, well, what?

Well, Miss dasya is now has achieved one of her life goals, which is to be able to add will go to a place on the water. Oh, that's great. Would you say it's accurate? That's accurate. Whereas I'm losing my brain space. Someone made an offer on our Connecticut place, which means I have a lot of fireworks to light off real soon. Are

we going up there? The weather's perfect.

I don't know. Like, I gotta figure it out. There's got to be someplace where I mean, I've promised Bobby Our beverage manager beverage director that he could go up so we just need to figure out a time. In similar stories where I have a place in Connecticut is called Chester and there's a very good restaurant in Chester called grano arso. And Joel and Lonnie, his wife were in listeners of the show. And you should go to that restaurant. In fact, on the way over here, I started mentally composing a jingle to it. And let me see. Let me see. I'm gonna put on my jingle my jingle face I don't remember what the tune was though.

I just make it up just shout

it through Chester you should don't go to groan oh our souls raised wrong

it's very pithy it's kind of like yeah wow it's real quick

good this nice start

slow down

I wasn't recording get it?

Yeah no no when it comes back on line

if they're Chester you should jaunt do it. Just do it. Yeah.

We'll do it next week is someone asked for a standard array. We'll do a standard commercial for granola bars. And we'll add verses to the to the Diddy if anyone comes up with some more jingle material.

We have to harmonize it is what has to happen. Oh,

you know Jackie molecules. You're right here that you're Mr. Music. You can go for it. So is the road. Alright? My poem, I'm gonna sing my poem. I sing and you say my poem for James Schroeder. So James shorter, he's on his way. James Saunders is where your random mics. He's on his way here. He wrote a book on mezcal, and he's anti. And when you think about this, by the way, call him your Mezcal questions. 27184972128. That's 718-497-2128. Was that even right? Of course it was okay. Anyway, so he goes on early and he hates people. I think it was him because I read that first chapter a while ago. He hates people calling things smoky for Mezcal. What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm with him. I've heard you call it smoky, jab, specific. Mezcal smoky. So here's my poem. And we can talk about some

poems and songs but on to the show become well, it's

I was on the subway and it was taken a long time. And I had my iPad on so I was like, I could type. Alright, mezcal, mezcal tastes real good. mezcal, mezcal needs no wood. And if you say it tastes like smoke, James Schroeder thinks you're a joke.

Wow.

How are you going to light the fire in the pit to? To roast the agave?

No, no needs no. No wood to aging. Doesn't need to be aged. Yeah, but

most of the fermenting containers are made it Yeah, that doesn't do squat here. I know it doesn't do anything but

your needs no wood for that. And first of all, wood. What kind of Jamocha you do that? And the earth and clay are intriguing. Like, you know, animal skins. You and your fancy word? I don't know trees. Anyway, while we're waiting

for the next couple of months, you do

a question on the phone

question. What do we got?

Oh, come on. Because I mean, yeah. Oh, hey, Dave Brandenburg calling in from Winston Salem, North Carolina.

How you doing? Doing? Well. Hope

you are. Let's have a big crew in the booth today. Jackie molecules back. Full house.

Yeah, almost. You know, James is not here yet. But yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

So I got a spirit question for you. And I'm gonna preface it with a bit of an anecdote. And I hope Anastasia will forgive me. I just got back from a trip down to the golden islands off the coast of Georgia, the barrier islands down there. And on Cumberland Island, I had the opportunity to visit Carnegie family ice house, which was a pretty cool building where the Carnegie family they had mansions on the island, and they used to cart down ice from the Great Lakes and keep it there.

A bunch of people but then build a library.

Precisely, yes. Another interesting, isolated thing that I saw there on the island, which I wasn't expecting to find is that in the basement of the plum mansion, which is another Carnegie family mansion there on the property, there was a really ancient ice machine that they had imported from a monastery in Europe. I don't know what monastery it was, but it has the initials A S. and that ice machine ended up destroying the need for the Ice House. So once they brought that ice machine back over from Europe that became no longer necessary for them to, you know, bring it down from the Great Lakes.

First of all, first of all, may I say that that's the only time in history that an American has bought an ice product from a freaking European because Europe is like, Europe is like the swamp. Like the like the malarial hellhole of ice machines and their water that pond water that they serve you even there seems like like viciously warm and without ice unless you ask for it. And whatever I'm just saying, like

Well, apparently this was this was a Trappist monastery and they were using the ice to chill bottles of their beer so they were not consuming the ice, just using it for for killing. At least that was a story I got okay. But anyway, while I was there in the mansion, they had a cocktail recipe on display for champagne punch from the Pittsburgh club. And it's a pretty Standard champagne punch. It starts out with some lemon ice and then some champagne that they fortify with brandy, and Benedictine. But the recipe calls for a pint of White Rock and no one there knew what White Rock was. And they were like if you know then

it's probably white sugar like low sugar, like low sugar. Sugar makes it now that you said Benedictine, you have been in the Jets going through my head. That's not cool. Sorry. That's not even me. Anyway, like, here's, like, it's got to be white white sugar, like rock rock sugar would be like recrystallized sugar of a very high purity. So like, it's probably like a high purity. That's my guess. Because anything and rock is like, unless you mean a rock of ice, like, like, like rock and rye is rock sugar, and rye. So I'm guessing that's, I'm guessing that's what you're looking at there. By the way, I just say this. No offense Europe. You know, got a snicker guy. No offense, but yeah, that's what it is. It's sugar. And so unless you're adding more Benny than you'd actually why would we call Benedictine Benny at the bar. But like, if you if you are unless you're adding a boat ton, it's not going to be sweet enough without some additional sugar. So I'm gonna go ahead and move that from a possibility to an absolute certainty.

Well, good to know. Thank you very much. I'm going to let the caretaker now. Actually, when he showed us the ice machine, he was like, does anyone know what this is? And I guess that it was some sort of generator because there was a dolt hooked up to it and kind of had that look about it. He was like, oh, that's, that's the one that's gonna sit a load slug worth. It makes everlasting Gobstoppers and I knew that guy was like,

Yeah, you should have just said I don't know. Garbage. I like machine so I'm sure I would have loved it. Very, very. You would have loved I thought of you. Yeah. Anyway, tell us how the recipe turns out. Talk to the caretaker. All right, cool.

Okay, the previous caller called back just to say that you at one point compared your voice to Bobby Womack. But he says you sound more like Michael McDonald when you sing.

Well, it's Wow. I know what it's compliment. That's a freaking compliment man. I wasn't channeling Womack for the what's it called? I have different mental voices. Like that was more of my I mean, like I'm now I'm thinking of like, maybe we'll come back and we'll think of what Bobby Womack jingle would have sounded like, and I wish I sounded like Bobby Womack. I probably sound like he does now that he's dead. Oh, man.

Okay, carbonated water. With coffee. I have a carbonated water related question. Last year we put a carbonated line at the ice cream shop so we could do sodas and ice cream floats. Well, most of our sodas have been great coffee soda floats had been a miss when we tried to do unsweetened coffee soda float with vanilla ice cream. Something happened that just don't work. We did a coffee concentrate which was fine with a soda water it was also great with the ice cream. However, when the three elements were combined, something just was not right. The mixed result was muted coffee flavor whenever I see just not right REM comes to my mind what the hell is going on with my brain

today? It's gotta be springtime. Yeah, musics and let me

tell you something about springtime. I have even spoken to the Stasi today because we try not to speak to each other but I thought that was yesterday. This is totally why you guys talk every morning I try not to anyway at least I tried to forget as I just said but wow this is the absolute worst time of year for Anastasia and myself because the freak show up in New York when the weather is like this. As surely as those weird desert fish pop out of the cracks in the frickin mud.

It's not that they show up it's that they exit their winter their winter husk crawl out of themselves like

locusts What do you think I'm doing here man?

In the warm weather Jackie molecules coming up from DC so when you got going for me checking molecules

I'm just passing through man I'm I was driving through New York. I looked at my clock because I couldn't be she's time.

Me show.

Don't forget. Oh, oh,

man. I did it two weeks ago. Don't

worry about it. Speaking of changed at this very moment. If you're listening live, I have a dear friend of many of us here that needs some good vibes. So if you have any extra good vibes, send them out. I'm not talking about person blowing stuff up on air. Okay, so back to the coffee related question. Now you liked it. You liked this soda water with the coffee and you liked the soda water with the ice cream. I'm thinking it's maybe just look if everyone knows that ice cream and coffee is everyone knows that ice cream Mr. Massey is like it's like a three year old. She's reaching for my iPad, like the first question. This is the very first question from last week that you told me to frickin do. The Stasi Lopez says to me, you will never answer the old questions. And then when I do when I literally start answer the first question and answer for last week. She reaches from my iPad like a three year old. So they have to like sit there and get what kind of hand is this Jackie molecule that's the hammer, the hammer hand the slicing hand the guillotine hand

you're this nicer. Yeah.

So listen, I just think that you, I don't know you very well. So I'm just saying that maybe you maybe you drink black coffee like I do. And when you have coffee and milk together, you're like, Man, I really liked this very much. Also, coffee kills bubbles, and ice cream kills bubbles. So maybe the double bubble trouble is causing you some issues, but get back to Holi studio is just filling up.

Somebody was saying that tonic water is the tonic as the answer to that, but it's better with coffee.

What is it when you want to tonic?

Well, that tastes good. I'm just passing it on the

internet's What do you want us to get here?

He's no longer in his optimal chair.

And he doesn't have a microphone not that she needs one because she never likes to talk. She can share share the microphone with you don't even don't even like look at your microphone to see whether or not Mr. Garcia's microphone people may not the reason she never talks is that her microphones like a speed bag. It's like it like rattles around like a good like 15 inches when you touch it.

She's like an ambient voice on the show to you know, ambient like the music. Yeah, she's distant

in the back and ambient voice.

No, the only thing I don't like about this microphone is that you can't you have to be antisocial towards somebody in any way. Whatever. Alright, shut up some more questions. The Stasi wants me to go to the first question from this week. Mike from Brooklyn writes in Hey, Dave, what do you think of this and then Mike sent me a link to a Canadian dude. This is Vice munchies. A Canadian dude who did some grave robbing. And then, after robbing the graves took the bones and boiled them to make bone broth, but wasn't caught because of the bone broth was caught because he was taste testing the bones in the graveyard. And someone saw him licking the bones. Right and he was doing it and then Vice munchies. Did a tag to when they opened up this Egyptian sarcophagus last year, there was a bunch of swampy death water in the sarcophagus it smelled like the Egyptians. thority said like sewage. And then there's a guy in England who wanted to make an energy drink out of said sewage. And I want to say, All you guys are stupid jokers, because for many hundreds of years, Europeans have gone and consumed mummy powder. This was a known medicine. It was a mistranslation of an Arabic word that this for this kind of pitch that came out of the ground that was non mommy related, but had a sound that was very similar to mommy that was used in medicine in both both Arab speaking places and also our Vedic medicine. That was then then people picked up on that medicine, Mumia and thought, they think they must be made for mommies. So then whenever they found all these mummies, they would grind them up. And they would do two things with these groundup mommies one, they would make paint. So there is actually a paint color called mummy. And it is kind of mummy colored. It's kind of like that kind of brownish. I've been dead a long, long time color, and they would grind it into mummy powder for consumption. I don't know why like everlasting life, although it didn't seem to work for the people at the mummies. The you can buy the actual powder that was confused for groundup Egyptian mommies, it's called SHA Juillet. I believe, although it's been many years. I used it in the very first mo fed dinner that Anastasia and I threw which Nastasia still says is the best event that's ever been thrown in the history of events. We didn't just the two of us. I was going through.

Is it is it delicious. What does it taste like? Nah, it's

nasty. Okay. Okay. Loved it. Now she hated it. Like she hates everything. Wasn't a drink. It was it was it was the most douche. And lose duty she can say in a family show. Oh, look at full house. Here all that. That's the sound of 1000 people in the studio. All right, Jane have a mic.

And Lou is on the phone as well. So we got we got

Lou, what do you got for me?

Okay, here's what I got for you. I've got a question. God. So you. So with all of this cooking, right? You're dealing with bacterial issues. Correct.

Swell, sometimes. I mean, we close. Yeah, we don't have we cook things all the time that don't have bacterial problems like carrots.

But what's your familiar with bacterial issues? Oh,

yeah. Yeah, it's a subset of cooking issues. Yes,

I would describe Dave as familiar with bacterial issues.

So okay, so given that let me ask you, Dave, do you would you wash your feet on a daily basis? Yes. Everybody else in the studio wash their feet on a daily basis? Yes,

this is loop X number one.

This is by the way. Yes, this is live X

Hang on a second. Are you just like everybody uses a washcloth and washes their feet every day?

Yes, it's the last thing I wash with the washcloth before I rent the washcloth and wring it out. This is a lot of good people

thoroughly every day. Where do you get

I don't wash my feet ever. My theory is what get back to the bacteria right? My theory is soapy water on my feet. I don't need to raise I don't need to rub it's clean

by the way soapy water on my feet is the beginning of the song. I don't know what it is yet. But soapy water soapy water soapy water on my feet. It's the beginning it's a country song I think. Very likely. Yeah, country. A hip hop to me. Oh, well, I gotta get a new kind of be we gotta get Jackie molecules back in and give us some sort of like, nouveau X Brooklyn hipster hip hop beat for it. Anyway, yes. So yes, I do wash my feet. But how is this related to cookie or is this just a foot issue?

Well, it's a J issue. This is one of the things we talk about in the car all

the time. This is one of the things that you talked about in the car all the time, Lou, I just play along.

That's fair enough. But it strikes me that it is a cooking issue because you're killing bacteria with the soap. You don't need to rub.

I don't use bacteria Seidel soap. I just use like soap. I don't believe in coding everything in the house and bacteria Seidel things. Yeah, I wish I did. Then I wish remember that. Remember that commercial? No. Didn't even make Irish ring anymore. And the person shows up with a knife and cuts a little piece off of it. It's got green and white stripes in it. We still talked about the same Irish Spring. Yeah. Does anyone else use this shed?

No.

Let me tell you something generally aware this is another piece of too much information for anybody here. I have a visceral distaste for bar soap. I use liquid soap. I do not like bar soap agree

Hardegree I'm other bar soap trend always happened.

I you know, this is a very a lot of information. But like I like the fact that like you have to like thoroughly rinse the soap or there might be a possibility of a hair on the stove. It stays there. Hard. No. Yeah. Hard. Yeah.

You know so parents a real issue. This has gone off the rails.

You can see it though. It's not like you're going to mysteriously come across one.

Would you even want to see it? No. See somebody else's hair on your soul? No.

Whoa, Who said anything about anybody else's hair.

The only time I'll use was sharing a bar the only time first of all, in a hotel, I use the I use the bottle mini shampoos. And if they have a bath, y'all use that one. But if I do use that miniature rancid little bar of soap, I will use it once and pitch it right the heck out. And soap just sitting there and it's in its own like soap. I've heard many people say soap washes itself get itself but I just don't like it. It's a mental thing. Same way that restrooms, somebody

suggested to me that nobody uses wash cloths anymore. And I'm like, I used to wash clogs every time

I don't understand, like, look, there's like if unless you have like super mega super mega water pressure, right? Like a some form of wiping device is like necessary to abrasively removed the film of filth that gets our new from living in a real city. You know what I mean? Or even like, let's say you don't when you like, you know, live somewhere where there's a lot of dust around. Like, you know, Jackie molecules was here. He's from Washington, DC, which is just a large dust cloud. You know what I mean? When it's not being a swamp, you know? And you ever been to the mall in the summertime people? Yeah, it's like being in a freaking rodeo. It's like dust everywhere. Nightmare. strip your legs. Yeah,

but if you're, if you're using the washcloth, how do you get your hair on the soap?

No, I don't I don't use bar. So I guess you're right. I could look, I guess you're right. I hadn't thought of it that way. But this is so much information. Whatever. I feel like now Well, I feel like the bathing issues is good. Is this gonna be back to Cooking somewhere? You know that? It used to be many years ago, I'm sure the science is a lot better. But in the 80s they did a study of San Francisco sourdough learners, sourdough starters, and found that one of the bacteria is mostly from human gums.

There you go. Wait, but Luke, can you talk about what you're doing with us and Jay later this week,

clearly not cleaning our feet. So. So what we're going to be doing on Friday evening is at six o'clock 636 30 and 630 is we're going to be tasting through five Agave spirits heirloom Agave spirits. Not certified as Moscow just Agave spirits as a fundraiser for Heritage radio.

Okay. So let me let me get this so you are you are very much for disallowing things to be called just Agave spirits and crushing the small farmers that don't fit into the denominations, right? Just kidding. Just just messing with you

know, big Mezcal only he is a big mess. caltric in a really weird way. Yes, he is. And it's in a kind of like a rising tide lifts all ships sort of way. I think that's loose. They speak for you.

I think it's ridiculous that we have like, Isn't isn't like something like by Sia, just Mezcal from Jalisco? I mean, like, really, honestly, isn't it?

Well, it depends on how you're defining Moscow. See, like, oh, man, you're gonna get me all political

sparkling wines from California champagne. I mean, no, you're being ridiculous. Oh,

no. Oh, no, no, that is the biggest load of horse hockey I've ever heard in my entire life, Jack, because the category is a swooped down farther name onto stuff that already existed anyway. Unlike champagne, which is a region find the place called like, I am Mezcal. And then like, you know, we can go to it. But it's spread all over the freakin map anyway. And it was moved on to something that already existed. Yeah, this was

a word that was stolen. It was stolen by the Mexican government from the people and it makes me nuts.

So is is Rusia just Mezcal from Jalisco?

It used to be until the Mexican government stole the word, unfortunately. You mean you can say it, but it's inaccurate now because it can't be Moscow's it's not certified as Moscow. Right. Then the whole point is the Mexican government stole that word. And it's it's cutting out. It's cutting out people who really did build the reputation of what is considered musgo.

Okay, okay. All right, by the way, is one of those that you're tasting the one that you've sent me in the mail.

I've got a bottle of it sitting right outside the studio right now. And I've got a related product, something very stylistically similar from a town couple towns over in mutual con, but it's also kind of

different. Do you want to make that stuff magically appear?

I can definitely make this materialize. All right.

Let's do this. And then I'm also going to read you my poem. And so I can get your reaction to it. James ready for the poem. I'll get ready for the poem. Alright. mezcal, mezcal tastes real good. mezcal, mezcal needs no wood IE for for iPhone. And if you say it tastes like smoke. James Schroeder thinks you're a joke.

That I think all that's very accurate. Yeah.

Okay, no singing the jingle for granola.

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you can find cutting occurred wherever you listen to podcasts and on heritage Radio network.org.

So why do you dislike that as us just because it simplifies it too much.

I think I think there's no way to not simplify this stuff. When we're looking at Agave spirits. In general, you've got this giant gradient of traditions and different names and different techniques. And even there's no clean way to divide this at all. Even just the idea of agave distillate. There's people doing weird stuff out there. There's things that aren't made from agave, that fit within the family of agave distill. It's so tall. It's its own thing, but it works and functions very much the same way. So there's no way to divvy this stuff up and except on like a micro micro level like the smaller you focus in, you can make similarities there's similarities between these two products abroad because they're made a couple towns over by people use really similar techniques.

I noticed you didn't cover so total in your book, is it because you you're like, I have to draw the line somewhere. And there's just so much

Pretty much yeah, I mean it almost everything and there's applicable towards so tall. There's some specific concerns with the plants that go into it. They grow a little different. But yeah, just try to make it a little tighter scope.

Also, if any of you if any of you folks out there are like wild crafter only kind of folk you should call in and talk to James about his beliefs on the future of coast cultivated, quote unquote, wild varieties. Because it's kind of I think it's going to be an interesting it's going to be an interesting thing going forward how this how this plays out, but you're, you have a very like, wait and see but hopeful look about cultivating these things rather than just harvesting them out of existence. Right,

right. And it's happening. It's already all over. Mexico, there's already people thinking about the future of planting. And you know, I think one of the things and traveling around a lot in Mexico, you just see an abundance of agave everywhere. As much as I'm worried about the wild ecology of it. There's a ton of plants in the ground that are just grown wherever they grow. I was with Lou in Scotland, oh, my God, there's so many Agave is grown around there. So it's, you know, I think the shift over to cultivation is more like a smart economic move, and kind of people playing it for their own futures a little bit, but it's gonna change how things taste, but in a way that I won't be able to predict you know,

now, give us the 30 Give us the 32nd plug on. I know that you like you're kind of like over people only talking about Agave varietals. So you like push it towards the end of the book. But, but give us the 30 seconds on the 30 seconds on the agave varietals. It's especially St. Margaret, Alicia bunch,

Margaret wish it's a coffee varietals in general, you're looking at like grapes to wine, you know, you're dealing with a set of flavors you start out with and then fermentation layer so much on top of that in such an ineffable way because you don't even know what critters are going on in the fermenter all spontaneous all wild fermentation across the board. Except for tequila. It's kind of the same child Yeah.

If the stepchild were suddenly take over and crush the world

is pretty is pretty darn successful. But generally speaking, though, while fermentation there, yeah, you still

um, somebody stepped out? Really? Um, two people stuck out two separate people

or those two people happy about that? I don't know. We just gotta No,

no, I think so. All right. So what are we tasting here? Or I should say what are we not tasting?

Not at all. We've got this is the this is the guy that brought our son

out originally so I was not able to find this on the internet's Jose Ines Vieira's. I can't read I can't read your

so Jose, this piano it's a got a cooper Jada out a mutual con. Little little tiny town town of about 30 people killed out called El agua. Tito. Yeah, super tiny little speck of a place. This guy makes really good stuff. Pretty high elevation. It's a little bit kind of lactic. You get that kind of cheesy kind of funky sort of thing going on. Underground fermentation and wood. distilled in copper pot stills. It's copper with a wood head on top of it. Oh, cool.

Let's try to and while you're doing that, it's my memory. I first met you years ago, when you were you know, with the with the Rick Bayless empire. And I think he's he's a good guy. I like him. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure I went to your house and you had a trained cat.

You went to my house. I had a trained cat. You commented on an analytical, chemical engineering book that I had textbook, and then we ate red hot ranch shrimp and drank so tall on the patio of red hot ranch at 4am.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

I need to hear more about the cat. Yeah. And

by the way, claims that she can train a cat. Let's hear her say, I can train a cat to do what? Good? What the hell does that mean? I have seen the Stasi Lopez walk up to like what amounts to an alley cat. Pick it up. And like just shake it like, shake it and be like, come on cat and then like gravitate and like. And like, I've never seen anyone freak out a cat. I mean, like, cat. You freak out a cat. It's like, wow. But she's like, she freaks out a cat says cats like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right? Yeah. All right. So you've taught a cat to pee on the toilet. I tried once I was unsuccessful to get the toilet that started small. The seat that started small. I'm sure I have only the one toilet. It's the size of itself. regular sized toilet. You know, I read I read on the internet. And I wasn't even the internet didn't exist. And I had a book and asked the guard book. What and it said that what you do is you know that old trick that you're supposed to do that doesn't really work where you put the plastic wrap over the toilet and if someone poops on it and the poops on their butt, you familiar I'm familiar so definitely yes, it's a thing it's a thing. I don't do it. I've never done it. Don't do it.

I thought it was so they pee in this flash?

I don't know. I don't know. Definitely, definitely never high tank me anyway. Anyway, so, point being that the theory was is that to get your cat to do it, you would plastic wrap your toilet seat and throw some kitty litter on the plastic to get it into the habit of jumping up and using the kitty litter that was on top of your toilet bowl. And then eventually it will go be like a computer.

That's also saying

no, no, they have toilets. Just put seats where you just put this larger seat with a smaller circle on your thing and then it starts because the disincentive to the cat is you bought the wrong toilet. No and then you regular toilet situation but like if a cat sees like if a cat sees a coffee cup, they're like that's the right size and then they it's a training tool. You're a trading tool, for sure. All right now James What did you train this cat to do this, by the way smells fantastic.

Yeah, it's uh it's excellent. I think we should drink some of it I trained my cat to he can wave on command he can high five and make him like wave for his food every day. He's very very food motivated Maverick shout out to Maverick. Good name. It's excellent cat. Super old. He's like 1415 years old. I'm trying to think he does a hit like like play dead basically like he'll lay back on his on his back and you don't want a 14 year old. Is that

a trap? Dead? Is that a trap though? He wants you to rub his belly and then he attacks Yes. Cats, but

I'll do it on commando now.

Nice. Yeah, we need a fifth vessel. And don't worry, we can we can split. So listen, so. Oh, that's nice. It's no mouth noises sorry. That was me. So why explain what's going on here. And by the way, all of you people who are listening to this sorry, chumps, you can't taste it, because I'm pretty sure this stuff is unavailable. This is the mean thing to do to somebody. We're tasting something. We're tasting unobtainium. How much of the love of Mezcal is the unobtainium aspect?

An awful lot of it? I think, you know, so many. There's like a collector's market. There's people who like bring stuff back in their suitcase. And, you know, it's all super rarefied and all that. But yeah, a lot of it's just the fact that it's ineffable. Even this, like batch to batch, we were tasting through this guy stuff. And this particular batch was super, super dope. And there was some other stuff that he had, that was good, but it's just different. So you know, even within one single producer, we're just focusing on a moving target. You know,