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Hello, this is Dave Arnold, your host of cookies just coming to you. Do no work at all like was it like 120 or something from Riverdance pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn got a totally different crew in the in the house today. And starting to hammer Lopez may be calling in. Later she is in California discussing pasta with very fancy folks. Very fancy pasta folks and eating some low quality white bread which we can talk about later. But in the stasis place we have Robert Patrick Murphy Hey Bobby Bobby doughnuts. How you doing?

I'm doing really well. Great to be on the show. Yeah,

Bobby is the beverage director of existing conditions. A bar you might be aware of that I'm involved with on West Eighth Street in Manhattan, New York City, and we do not have Matt in the booth today. We have G Jeet. How're you doing?

I'm good man. How are you

doing? All right now you've never done the show before. Right? So we're have not we're this is the first time we've worked together. Right. So we're gonna have to go through some stuff here. So what what is your like? Like, give me some food information about cheese as some sort of feeling about who you are. Okay.

Like what I like to eat or like what, uh, what I think about food? Sure. Okay. I guess I like to eat home cooked food more than go out and eat. I just recently started to cook over the last two to three years, was not much into food before that. But after interning at Heritage radio network and getting into the engineering side, really started to be fascinated by it.

So you're coming at it. You you came to this like strictly as an audio audio engineer, or Yeah. And when you say how many people live where you live? It's just me and like two roommates two roommates. And so you cook for them? They cook for you? Oh no,

not at all. I cook for myself. Really?

Interesting. So like what level of thing do you cook for yours? So I think the world like it's when you talk to people that cook right? So like I love to cook right? I hope people know that. But I love to cook but I never cook for myself when I'm eating When I'm eating just and also, I don't like dining alone. So like, it's not that I don't mean, I know, I don't mind. It's never an occasion for me to eat. So I'm never that guy who's like getting blown out like solo in a in a, at a place by the way, not a sexual term, that just means being treated well. Not a sexual term than a sexual term. Well, and Bobby, like verify this. So I'm not the only guy saying it when. Maybe not as much at a bar, but even at a bar, but at a restaurant, by the way, for those of you that don't know, Bobby, isn't just just doing just a bar guy. I'm not insulting bargains, but like comes from a fine dining background. Was that next in Chicago for a long time, correct? Yes, yeah. Originally from Iowa, so if you have any Iowa questions, by the way, I'll give you the phone number to call in 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 for any bar, slash Chicago, because that's where he was working for many years slash Iowa slash cooking for yourself questions called then, when you show up at a restaurant, specifically a fine dining restaurant solo, you get VIP instantly, not just I don't know why, but it's just it's like, it's the culture that if someone shows up alone, you give them I guess, because the assumption is, is that they don't have someone to talk to that. Yeah, you spend

a lot of time with them. But people like Jay bez Squall that has four reservations when they go to like three fine dining restaurants. Sometimes there's even talk,

right? You treat them like people who are solo diners get treated? Well, they

get treated really well. I mean, you, you tend to spend a lot of time with them you spend, tend to like, talk to them a lot more, I guess, than other tables. But I'd be not necessarily like it's all dependent on the person. Some people are there and like, they dine alone. And they're like, super strategic about like taking notes and like, want to be left alone or like doing documentation. But yeah, some people like they did up. They want to, they want to be like, talk to you and they want to be given that experience. You know, since there's no one else around

when I'm alone, when I'm alone. I just eat as fast as humanly possible. And, you know, GTF Oh, you know what I mean? Like the kitchen loves you for that. Yeah, so like, although, well known story, I wasn't not eating alone, I almost got kicked out of a Michelin starred restaurant in Madrid for eating too fast before they could explain what was going on. Because they were taking so long with their dang explanations of what the hell they were serving me, but back back to where we're going. So when I eat when I'm cooking, for myself, I either make something that my family does not like to eat, right? Like, I now now my kids are kind of better with it. But like, I love poached eggs on toast. So for years, it used to be if I was alone, poached eggs on toast. And then if I had a country ham in the fridge, which PS has always I would like throw a couple of slices of rock country ham on top of the poached eggs toast. Done. That was dinner, you know, but yeah, so or like, you know, lunch breakfast. I'm never cooking for myself. I'll have leftovers or whatever else. To me. It's, it's it's interesting. That I don't know. So but gee, you like cooking for yourself? I

do. And my girlfriend of course, she loves my cooking. Well, how

often does your girlfriend come over to eat? At least once a week?

Maybe twice?

Yeah. Is this okay with your roommates? Oh, yeah. They

have to be okay with it. Is it okay?

So in any apartment situation? There's one person who kind of rules the roost? Are you the ruler of the roost? Is this your apartment and the other people are glomming on or

considering that I'm the one with the master bedroom, I would think so.

Yeah. Bobby is in the opposite position. He is in a situation where he is not the ruler of the roost. And so he does, he would not feel comfortable. I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, Bobby, bringing people over and doing a big to do because you don't feel like it's your place. Right?

There's just not enough space. Like it's just not an apartment conducive for entertaining.

Yeah, but even if it What, like you always say you're like, I feel like you know, yeah, I mean,

invited people for cocktails or something. But like, yeah, not not for dinner. By the way, Dave, we

have a Ryan from California. And he had a question about induction cooking. For home cooking.

Do it. All right. All right, what's up?

All right, here we go. All right. He should be on right now.

Ryan, what's going on?

Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Well. Good. Good. So my question was, I'm looking for a commercial induction cooktop but for home use. The my problem I've ran into is one I'm specifically looking in STATA closers. I'm looking for one with a knob, a big old knob on it. And it needs to be 120 volt. Since you know looked at the home models and all of them have the touchscreens and all that junk and since I'm blind, I can't really use that. Right so I know you have the control freak Which is great, but that's a little out of my budget. So, so I'd like your opinion recommendations or you know, any anything, any advice you'd give me?

Okay, so this isn't interesting. This is a super interesting question. I'm trying to think about all the units I've used. So the control freak has what the control freak has, besides being out of your budget, the control freak Bobby used to control? Yeah. So for those of you that don't know, Control Freak is the collab between Preston from Polly science and Breville, they came out with a an induction burner, that was kind of meant for caterers and pro people, but still plugs into a 120. It is pricey, right. But the one of the advantages it does have is that most inexpensive or home induction units have a they're all kind of membrane switches, right. So you're not doing a kind of a tactile feedback. And I have to say that, well, the while the control freak, does have a big old knob on it, for those of you that have, if you've ever used it, the knob isn't an what I'd call a hard knob. It's a it's a rotary encoder. So you could sit there and you know, keep turning it, turning it turning it so it doesn't actually provide a down up reference. If that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like it only you obviously, you could tell I am moving up, I am moving down. But you can't say, for instance, you can't be like, I'm at half that you can't. So like, for me, like a lot of times, if I'm looking for tactile response, I'll just I'll auto go all the way to off, and then I know where halfway is right? Or I can or I can tell by, you know, if I've used a piece of equipment for a long time, I know the Orient, I know the orientation of the of the whatever you call the pole, you know, the thing you hold on to, you know, that that part of the knob, the actual thing that you're really Yeah, I know the position of that relative to the, you know, to the input that I want to provide. And the control freak won't do that. It does have a it does have some audible, some audible feedback, right, in terms of, you know, I am on or, you know, I have been turned off. I believe it also provides audible feedback on what, what, that you've hit the temperature or can do the now I know it's not in your price range, we're just talking about it, because the other thing is, is that it is somewhat programmable. And I would bet having spoken to the people at revel, right, that it could be made with small amounts of intervention, and it might be a project they want to take on. I don't know. I mean, I, I haven't spoken to them in a long time. But I know a lot of people who do a lot of work with them. And like, like for instance, like you could make it such that it provided there's no way to change it from a rotary encoder to a hard knob. But like maybe it could provide a different a different tone for what temperature or fit you know, whatever power it has turned to right now. Now, to go back to all the other non expensive induction units that I've ever used. The only induction units I've ever used that have a hard knob on them are cook Tex and the cook tech units made in Chicago, by the way, Bobby

one of the only ones value like it's the problem with the control freak is yes, it's expensive, but like

found garlin said, well who have the knobs there is one buy made by Max burden, but there is also you know, the membrane control. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at the Garland's right now.

How much are they stopped and how much did the garland makes a 120?

Yeah, it does. They have a induction cooktop that's portable, it's 120. Of course, since it's 120, it's the only goes up to 1800 Watts, but that's fine. For me. It's

actually a lot of power, like so for those, you know, if you haven't used them a lot before, you know, 1800 Watts, they're probably lying, it's probably closer to 1500. But okay, let's pretend that it's 1800 watts. That is much more powerful than the average person's gas burner. You don't I mean, not more powerful than mine, but more powerful than the average person has gas burner. You know, in other words, it's enough for most for most things. So what do they charge for that though?

It's like 765 kind of expensive, but since I'm assuming you know, it's commercial, I'm assuming it's gonna last a lot longer be made, better build quality, so on so forth.

So the cook texts that I've used are very Robo. The cook texts I've used are like heavy duty, but I've never used 120 Cook tech and they are very expensive. They are like more than the control freak.

They are but they'll last a really long time and they they have a really good policy on returns and repair.

Yeah I have not used garland garland is owned by who owns them now. They're Oh, they're owned by one of the large conglomerates. Now I can't remember which one. But for if something does cost 600 bucks. If Garland's willing to stand behind it. You know I'd say that sounds like a good deal for somebody with a hard knob because the only hard knob induction unit I've ever used. Costs. Two grand at least Do you know what I'm saying? And use it and isn't portable in this mean it is portable, but it's not portable, in the sense that you need a you know, a 220 outlet for it. I will say this in general. Garland's gone through a bunch of cycles like Garland was once a an extremely well loved brand. Then garland went into the hole for a number of years for a long period of time people stopped using garland garland then got I believe, either bought or the brand got renovated. And then Garland's quality started kind of going up garland, but as I said, Garland is part of a much larger group. So just because it has the garland name on it doesn't mean that it's being built by them, they're probably having someone else in their group. Because, you know, I don't know that they specifically like engineers who actually go to like a building with the word garland on it every day, like have that kind of expertise, they're probably, they're probably outsourcing that I'm talking about. By the way, this is not research, this is just like, you know, off the top of my head. So a lot of times when you have units, two different teams will be entirely different in terms of build quality. Now, if they're willing to put the garland name on it, my hope would be that since the last time I checked, Garland was on an upswing in terms of its kind of quality, that they would only put their name on something that they're proud of, and that they would stand behind it, which sounds good. It's a little suspicious that anyone would sell a commercial burner for only $600. You know what I mean? Because, in general, anytime you put the word commercial on it, it the assumption is that I'm going to beat the EverLiving snot out of it, and that they're going to have to fix it because I am going to abuse it, for instance, the spins off that I'm having now or like I'm getting feedback from people we can get into later if anyone cares about the kind of the different kinds of abuse that they're going through that we now have to figure out how to tell people how to fix and I can go into that and you know, like someone cares about it, but I'd say give it a shot. What do you think, Bobby? I mean, if you need the hard knob, I would say you don't have a lot of other choices.

Yeah, I mean, it's the hard knobs what you if you want do it oh, I will say drastically though, like I don't know if you own your home like there is a lot of like larger companies that you can buy in Unit countertop things now that are a lot more affordable with a lot more high like power ratings, but

a lot of those are also membrane out like Gaggenau doesn't have hard knobs. Yeah, I don't think I mean, if you look at my brother in law, I forget which one he just bought, he just bought, I think he bought an induction you the other things, induction isn't quite there for home yet. It's not quite there, like like you can buy like the ranges, like you can buy the ranges. But for instance, like Range Rover oven combos, our Range Rover oven combos are they don't have a lot of 36 inch units. So they don't go for like the prosumer people that go for like the 30 inch wide units. And honestly, like all the having dealt with engineers on the engineering side of this, everyone in I hate to say this even on the the spins all because people keep breaking the knobs off of them. Right? We might have to move to it now on a spins all it's not so bad, because there's not a lot of it. But you know what, I'm having this conversation with you. If I ever did have to move to a membrane, I would definitely think about adding some sort of feedback to it so that you knew where you have some sort of audible feedback to it so you knew where you were, because it honestly hadn't registered in my head that that would be a problem. Now I put the knobs on it specifically because I wanted the tactile feedback that I think everyone regardless appreciates in a piece of equipment. But just because of the braking we're getting on it, we might have to move to membranes. Very definitely not capacitive things. But that's the problem. Everyone now is moving to touchscreens and capacitive things. And not only do they really suck for people when their hands are wet, but they've you know, very, very, it's not often that they have any sort of haptics or feedback mechanisms so you can tell what's going on. And it is an interesting problem and the next time I do talk to the control freak people I will I will definitely mention to them if I talk to him. Now maybe

maybe also look, we do have a Heston cue at the bar. I mean obviously it's not totaljobs situation but for The price I feel like I use that thing three to four times a week and it does the job. But depending on

the interesting thing to that is it doesn't have a hard knob, but it does have a slider. So in other words, instead of a membrane switch, do you remember the old? Remember the old i pod interface with the round click wheel?

I do? Yeah, that would work. I've thought about getting a wolf home unit and then labeling with some tactile dots. And I think they make some audio feedback. But do you know it those are those are expensive to anything is going to be an investment.

This is a $300 investment. And it seems like for home use, like I would be perfectly happy with it in my apartment.

Yeah, it's, it's meant to have a bunch of other interactive stuff with your phone, which we've never done. One last thing I have used a Garlon induction unit before, but a real Robo. So Garlon makes some induction walks. They're one of the manufacturers that sells induction walks, I'm not gonna say they produce it like someone in the larger group produces it, probably, but they have to, they have two different levels of induction walk. And at the museum, we have the Screamer, it's like, get this it's like it's something stupid. It's like six kilowatts or something like that. It's like the normal ones like four kilowatts, and ours is like, somewhere between five six kilowatts, kilowatts. And she's like, Yeah, and we were like, all of us. So when you're using induction, right, so when you're an induction burner, is actually, the reason it only works on things that are mag magnetic is that it's not just the principle of induction that they're using, they're using what's called the hysteresis loss, which is, you know, a hysteresis loss. And that's why they have to find a particular frequency. So they get the maximum loss and they're and they're generating a lot of energy that way. So an actual furnace, it's melting aluminum can melt aluminum with induction, that's how you do it, typically. But it takes scads more current than you would use to heat an induction pot. And that's why they only really work on things that are magnetic, right? But Pharaoh is going with this Oh, so you can't heat anything up above what's called the Curie temperature on an induction range, which is, you know, right as it starts to Cherry up on you. But we dropped some walks into this thing. And it went like right up to Cherry almost instantly. It was like, we had a bunch of professional you know, walk chefs from Chinese restaurants come in high end Chinese restaurants come in. And like universally beforehand, if they had never used an induction walk, they're like, this is gonna suck this sucks. How? Because it's not gas. And then we drop it in and they're all like, whoa, whoa, whoa. So and that's a garland. So that thing kicked some serious behind. So if the same team put their imprimatur on this that put their imprimatur on that walk then you're in luck but you never never know please if you do try it, please call us back and let us know how it worked out.

Absolutely and if you need help with making it more intuitive design with a school of law as far as membranes are consumed call me up I know some people or to help you out myself

oh shoot me shoot me something on cooking issues on Twitter so that we can keep in touch about it?

Absolutely. All right, you guys have a great day. Thank you.

Thanks so what we talked about before that I forget cooking we're talking about cooking at home for yourself Yep

we've got a Wes asking about country him.

Okay, is this where Wes is calling about country? Yeah, okay, I remember this is from a Twitter thing so I have a different thing on ham coming up in a second Wes How you doing?

Good. Yeah, just follow up. So gonna be we my wife and I and we've got two young kids who are not eating his quantities and so we want to make the purchase count. Love the Suriano haven't really had much else from other US hamburgers I used to steal ham from Spain and in smuggle in my baggage back in the day but I don't have the opportunity to do that now.

Don't have the opportunity because you're Global Entry and so you're worried about getting caught or because you don't go abroad. Less travel with little kids now. Yeah, for sure. By the way. If you happen to be independently wealthy, they do have some very good like a Barraco biota fed America that's coming into the country now but it's preposterous ly expensive. It's worth it right it's worth it

no and by the JFIF oh man yeah the J five is where you need to put your money for sure. Yeah,

I mean like that stuff is like that the correct number of J's you got to get the correct number of j's and that thing but that stuff is ridiculous. And

some guy come by with a three J don't take it.

So like for Cinco de switch is like, like that, to me like that is of commercially available, like Spanish hams. Like that is the The Gold Standard I'm not saying it's the best, it's the one you rate others against you. And I mean, and the only reason that I'm not saying it's the best is because I haven't tried everyone. Right? Yes, when I've tried. Now, I am Peter Kaminski, who wrote a book on ham or pork. And you know, was involved in the original taste test we did for American country hands back in like, oh three or oh four, right. He wants said to a collective group of people, which included like Geoffrey Stein guard and a bunch of other, you know, food food intelligentsia at the time that Spanish him, at its best is the Beatles, and everything else is the Dave Clark Five. That's what he said. And I was like, you know, Pete, I didn't call him peaks. I didn't really know him that well. But I was like, in my mind, I was like, you know, Pete, that's not really fair. There are different products, right? And, you know, I eat American country ham, and you know, push it on its own right, because I enjoy it. But it's a different experience, both in terms of your pocketbook. And in terms of kind of what you would use it for. Then a bo dyfed A miracle, I would go ahead and say that anyone that does anything with the with like the Bayeux to stuff other than just eat it straight? Isn't a whole you know what I mean? Like you're throwing away like if you're using the scraps or anything else fine, whatever, you know what I mean a little piece but you know, or like in Spain they use the you know, in Catalonia they use the fat for different things. And

I love how you lie to yourself and you're like to pieces in the Pentagon to vote you're like, now just bordered by thinking immediately, like just open mouth.

Yeah, because it's a waste. Now American hands on the other hand, although like I don't really believe they should be they're fine cook traditionally, but like I think they stand on their on their own merits and they're different. So you shouldn't think of that that as better or worse, just different and worth different amounts of money because of the different kinds of procedures that go into them. Now. I have had not fed long cured American hams. Edwards used to make one because he used to buy some like really strong pork from Patrick Martens at Heritage meats and cure it. I think that entire stock was lost. Cesare Casella makes an American ham more in the Italian style using that same pork which is delicious and I advise you to kind of get a hold of it. But in traditional American stuff, Sam Edwards makes a very good product. Nancy Mahaffey a colonel Newsome I haven't had her product in a long time. I used to love and I think I said this on Twitter, in response, like I used to love you. I used to love those those hands. Because they have this kind of distinct glue cheese. No, just realize if you buy from her, like, you know, I've had on more than one occasion, there'll be some taint along the bone. By the way, if you buy a American ham, and you get some taint along the bone, just cut away the tape. And you're good to go.

Yeah, no, I don't. I've had that before I just

kind of the way. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I like her stuff. I have a broadband in my fridge right now that broadband is eating really well, at the at the at the bar, by the way, you know, don't want to get anyone jealous out there. But we had a gravity fed kind of modern Burkle. And in transport or somehow somebody dropped something on the gauge plate, which is the thing that moves up and down to give you the thickness. And so it wobbles and unfortunately, on the unit that we had, it's not easy to get into. It's not like you're just adjusting, you know, a shim or a guide plate to get the gauge plate to be rigid again, and you cannot slice things properly unless your gauge plate is rock solid. And so I was yelling at the at the at the folks in the kitchen. I was like, at some way or blimp please can slice a freaking piece of meat. What's wrong with you? You know what I mean? Because they couldn't until I went back and inspected the slicer. And so this is one of the reasons why to date we haven't had any ham on the menu excellence and conditions. But today we are getting delivered as another loaner of a vertical slicer vertical slicer. And how are you slicing his hand? By the way, Wes.

I actually have like $100 meat slicer and it's sharp knives that are long. And you know the home unit is a bit like Chef's Choice, whatever it actually is pretty nice.

But it's Rotary. Yeah. Hmm. And similar to the rifle, but it's made by chefs choice,

I believe. Yeah.

So the thing about it is is that most home units that what they lack other than sharpness and size of the blade, which is a big thing is and so I'm assuming you're cutting the ham down into smaller pieces so that you don't have to try to take such a big slice of Right.

Yeah, I might do both. I might like conk off a big hunk, and then splice them on because I liked the presentation, but I don't know.

Right? Yeah. The other thing they lack usually is stiffness. So if you get it sharp enough, so you don't have to press too hard on it to get it to slice I'm sure they can do, they can do an okay job. But it whenever you have a gravity fed slicer, what ends up happening is you're getting tear off at the bottom. And that's why you get that raggedy bottom on the bottom of your products. And why they always you have to, if you have a round product, that's why you see people rotating the round product as you go because it's it's, it's as you push down, and then it's cutting more off of one side than the other. And so they end up angling out on you. But we're getting a vertical freezer, which means that our slices will be perfect. Our slices will be perfect. So anyway, we have a good broadband at the bar, which is where I started into this, we have a two year old Benton's so I would say and we haven't sliced into yet because I didn't want to mutilate it on the on our broken slicer. I think a lot depends on what most of these people if you're sticking with someone that's you know, well known for it like a Benton's or a frenchville. Or, or or a nuisance or an Edwards or any there's an Iowa Loquitur show. I'm not a question fan. No, I know you're from Iowa. But I just don't like what the guy does to hams. He trims off all the fat claims that that's the way that they're done in Italy, and then gives you this like I think overly dried, overly small. I'm not Ultra fan, you like it just because you're from Iowa or you

know, I'm like I like their spec a lot.

That's a different product. Now, you know what I mean? I still I still

think for what is entry level to the market price,

it's not entry level. For for the money that liquidity charges, I would take a product from Sam Edwards any day of the week, or Nancy, you know, or broadband or frenchville, or Benton's or any one of those crew.

You said broadband

broadband but but you have to get there, like you have to get there good ones, you know what I mean? And I believe not to not to not to, you know, shill out for the for the for the mothership here, but like Patrick Martin's has specific relationships with ham curing people who are using good quality pork, because he's, if you ever gotten Patrick, like going on something, he's like, oh, yeah, I don't like them, they use the cheapest, the cheapest, meet me the cheapest meats. And so like he like tracks when people are using the good hands, and then will often buy them back and distribute them. So he's like working with Deseret. And so you know, he's very, as I've said many times in the past that almost all of the American producers have, you know, 100 200 years of ham carrying in their collective, you know, consciousness. So they're not like kind of, you know, Jane completely used to this whole kind of a situation. It's just that, you know, for many years, Americans have been using kind of commodity pork. And that's one of the things that's holding them back. And another thing holding them back is they're being pushed to kind of quick cure things to get, you know, to the minimum to the maximum speed that they can do it. So minimum amount of time of aging. So you're looking at four or five months hands, and even at the same level of dryness, a four or five month hand isn't going to slice the way a one year to your hands going. So I would say call, call whoever you're interested in and say do you have anything that's 12 months or better? And then if they do buy that, and then you're probably going to be happy with it. Now I can't remember the name of it. There was an outfit. I forget what they what Oh, my God, I can't really can't remember what it was there was an outfit out of the south that was doing only mass fed stuff. So they were sourcing from a bunch of different farmers mass fed means they were eating acorns and whatever else they were doing. And they're used years ago, there was one called peaceful pastures that was doing Tamworth hogs that were all mass fed, all made on that person's farm. And they were amazing, in terms of the fat had that kind of oily quality that you get off the air go by, I can't remember what the name of this place was. But it was an outfit that was only doing mass fed hogs in America, you should we should Google it. I will also Google it. The price was phenomenally high. But if my memory serves me the product was also very good. They were not an old ham producer. They were a newer ham producer, maybe even a co op. But just like stressing the importance of the feed of the hog before it before it was killed, which I believe is obviously something that we've been

hearing. I mean, I'm in Washington, Oregon, there's going to be some good product coming up soon. Their facility burned down to this place called tails and trotters in Portland Oregon. Their goal in life is to make because we have so many hazelnuts out here right? They want to do Hazel not said she just I'll

do they have stuffed into your already

I believe so. But yeah, like their stuff burned down in 2017. So they have to start over.

Yeah, so it's probably be a little while. For the stuffs on the market did you try stuff before it burned down? Or do they never get any product to the market?

They never I mean, they there they were selling shorter term stuff, but they, it was sad timing there. Placido never made it to market and before it burned down, so I don't I don't know. He knows what he's talking about. He knows what he's doing, but I've never tried to pursue those. So

that's very sad. It's very sad. Anyway. Anyone? Yeah, anyone by just losing all that stock is sad. Like the stories when Sam Edwards place burned down and the dogs eating the meat, you know, in the ruins is like,

yeah, there's like such big stories about that, like when the Mad Cow Disease hit like Japan like there's like pictures of Japanese farmers like baring their wagyu cows and like praying over them, like how sad they were to like, raise those. Do the whole process.

Well, yeah, anyone that cares about their product, when they lose that product, they're losing a piece of themselves. And I feel for them. You don't I mean, and also I'll say what's the name of that company again? Because I believe we should support people who are trying to do this

thing. Absolutely. No, no, it's called hills and trotters,

hills and traitors. All right. Well, I can't say anything about their products. I haven't tried it, but I will gladly support them if the product matches it because I support the project. Right. Cool. Anyway, alright, so I gotta go. If you find a good let me know. Your suggestion. All right. Cool. Let me know if you find anything good. Hit me up on the Twitter. So let me see here. I got some I got something on something similar. So here's, here's what it is. This is in from Kitt. Kim yardie, for rare, which, by the way, thank you for helping me on the pronunciation because I would not have gotten it otherwise. Hello, hammer. You're being hammered today. Bobby. I'm hammered. You're not yet. Hammer. Dave and the rest. Gee, you're the rest. How do you feel about that? As always, yeah. longtime listener. I've heard 266 of your 357 episode, we had 357 episodes. We're 357 now but first time email writer, the Restaurant Group where I work as creative chef just got a gift of a whole leg of pureblood Wagyu beef so we're talking about you know, beef and hands. right the ship round? Yeah, well, we want to turn it into a raw cured ham so not obviously not ham, but you want to rock your you want to cure it and serve it raw. I want a soft texture with a strong cured flavor. So I'm thinking about Brian and for three weeks using Brian Paulson's all purpose Brian recipe of one gallon water 225 grams of sea salt 125 grams of sugar and 42 grams of cure number one, because it's impossible to find cure number two in Mexico City. Alright, so you're in Mexico City, then hang it for 18 months you listen, you're gonna want you want the one with nitrate not the one with nitrate you need the longer acting stuff. So just order from modernist pantry or whomever it was shipped it what Amazon usually has to do well, but he has gotten shipped to Mexico anyway, but like, you want the longer acting stuff because even in a in a Brian situation it needs to make it in before it gets converted to get the kind of the kind of cure is 21 days enough brining time considering the beef leg is three times the thickness of pork leg but 10 times more weight. What should I do? Should I Brian instead of dry salting, I would say no. I would not Brian instead of dry salty for this kind of this kind of an application. Because none of the great dry cured products in the world are brand new, and I mean that none of them know so. So well. I've never done a side by side. Like like the fact that I don't know of anyone that does it that way is kind of tells you something I also don't know of anyone that does the whole leg as as a piece. Right? So I looked up on, you know, as my old recommendations on curing hams, right. And typically so in a ham and American ham, when you're measuring a ham you measure the depth from where the face of the meat on top is all the way to where the fat is on the other side. And they call that the depth of cushion. And they talk about curing seven days per inch of cushion because on a ham, there's all that fat on the one side I don't know how your leg is trimmed but there's all that fat on one side. And the cure does not penetrate through the fat nearly nearly nearly as much as it does through the leaner part of it now, so they recommend seven inches per seven days per inch of cushion. I would if I were you and I also don't know how much the intramuscular marbling on a wagyu is going to affect the penetration rate because all that fat is going to stop the penetration rate. So I would look at as your reference I would look at I know that if you're in Mexico now I know you're in Mexico that you know for you Sistina is something different but I would look at the Siena de Leon the Spanish kind of version of it. And if you look at the pieces, even the biggest pieces they have which are cut off the leg that's All made from legs, right? There's kind of squashed flat, right? So it's not the weight isn't the important thing you're dealing with here. It's the thickness. So I would, I would, if you really need to do it with the bone in, I guess, but I would, I would take the pieces off and kind of push them flatter, right? And then and then assault them, I'd have to have like maybe someone online here or God hunter can weigh in at some point or I can text him on whether he's ever assaulted something that big. I know that I've had hands made before from 350 pound hogs were the hammer alone was like 35 pounds, you know what I mean? And it was big American style not squished flat, and they were able to cure it, but it took a lot longer. But the issue is this in traditional dry curing, the one advantage of Brian has is that the Brian concentration is the Brian concentration. Typically the way that you work for a larger thing like a ham is you salt the outside, you pull it out, the inside still isn't salted, right. So you do that at refrigeration temperature, so it's not going to spoil the insides not salted, you brush the salt off the outside and you go into what's called the equalization phase where the salt level equalizes. And that's another couple of weeks after the initial salting, right. So if you keep applying salt the entire time until you're cured through the entire thing is incredibly over salted. And so I don't have a lot of physical expertise, because I don't do it on kind of how to get that right on anything of that size. So I would try to put it into the same confirmation that you're going to deal with and that other people have already dealt with, and then use their numbers because you don't want to spoil something that is kind of, you know, of this magnitude,