Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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meat and three is heritage radio network's weekly food news roundup, this week on meat and three, we're bringing you highlights from feast Portland, like our chat with the one and only Andrew Zimmern.

I'm super excited to be here because for people who do what I do for a living, we do tons of you know death, side chats and podcasts and interviews and stuff like that. And you circle the handful of ones on the year where you get to talk with people that you're really excited about talking with. So this is this is awesome. We picked up

on some recurring themes while talking to our impressive roster of guests, including the current state of Portland's food scene personal identity, and believe it or not, the influence of great chefs grandmother's mom never touched a drop of booze in her life and

now has a distillery named after her, but I grew up in her garden and just really she taught me all good things come from scratch and women can be anyone they want to be. So tune

in for this week's extra special episode. Subscribe to me and three wherever you get your podcasts

coming to you on the heritage Radio Network every well not every right we've been gone for a long time but most Tuesdays from roughly 12 roughly 1245 from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn, joined as usual, with Anastasia the hammer Lopez but sad news for some cooking issues or cookies listeners out there Dave in the booth is no longer Dave in the booth. Dave in the booth has left heritage Radio Network. Yep. Today we have Matt in the booth. Matt Patterson How you doing Matt

who's dropped I just dropped the microphone the minute you said my name Hello?

Yeah my like dropped it in like a mile

but it was like I'm just gonna be I'm in Yeah, doesn't that doesn't work.

They tell you ever tell you about my my business idea that I'm never going to do go okay. Not

because we just met him. Well, no, he's

done a show before I really Yeah, I didn't look at his face. Oh, good job and stats and the stats. He's like, I'm gonna pass by night and look at that face. Just run by as quick as you can. Every every show people get a little bit more of an insight into Anastasia Lopez. So anyway, so the idea is, is you have these little mics that you carry around with you microphones and it's just like the foam head and the bass and it's true. He's got like a one time use button cell battery and like the ones that greeting cards have right? And a tiny accelerometer you just carry this in your inside jacket pocket. And then when it comes when you have a mic drop moment, you pull it out and you like as you pull it out. You like engage it and then you just drop it when you drop it. It goes. We use walk away from it. What do you think?

Never to return? Like you leave it there. Yeah, done.

You leave it there. You're done. That's amazing. Like

a $5 card, right?

Yeah. Yes. Have it in your hand. You have it in your pocket all the time. Pull it out.

York City would just be littered with microphones. Yeah,

right. Right. Because you could use it anywhere. You could use it like you know, wherever you're sitting at a table. Someone says something stupid. You have the sweet comeback. Drop the mic, go to the bathroom, and then walk out. Leave them with the check crap on him. You got a mic drop moment. You know, I mean,

every time I quit a job Mic drop.

Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. Tell ya. You don't my like my dream way to quit a job back when I used to have jobs. What do you have now? I mean, like, you know, what, what am I gonna do? Like, quit quit to myself? You know what I mean? So it was always like, I can't say actually, I can't say it on here. It's not. It's not anyway. If you come meet me at the bar, I can No, it doesn't. It doesn't bother you anymore. Someone calling meeting me the bar. So when's the last time so? Matt? It's Matt. Not Matthew, by the way. Anastasia. Patterson, but not related to the singer Mike Patterson. Right. Not to my knowledge. All right. Question. What are your food likes, dislikes? Like what do you do? Cook? What's your deal? I need to know what your deal is. If we're going to be working here. By the way, he has not agreed to work here. They're having discussions at Heritage radio network about who's going to handle us because apparently we are too tough to handle. Well, just pain, the pain of

intense contractual discussions about this show. Yeah. Nobody wants you.

Yeah. So since you're forced to do this for at least a couple of weeks, but what are your food likes and dislikes?

I do like cooking quite a bit. However, I will tell you that the only cooking I've done recently is I just I washed some gooseberries yesterday, and I just ate them right now. That's about the closest I've come. Does that count as cooking washing something? No, no? Yeah. Yeah. So other than that, it's been a lot of dollar pizza. And bagels. Where do you live? I live in Sunset Park.

How is the dollar pizza there?

There is none. Which is why I have to you know, it's horrible. You travel for dollar pizza. That's an interesting idea. I travel for work and then I ended up at dollar pizza is their dollar pizza. Here it is. Let me just get a discount here. Dollar pizza is what justifies the fact that I have to go through Manhattan to get from Brooklyn to Brooklyn from home to work.

So you use the West Fourth Street dollar pizza, the one on a street. I was there the other day, you know it and they tell you something, people. For those of you that have never been to New York City, everything here is expensive except for the dollar slice. Now. It sounds like they're all the same, but it's not the case. There are different quality levels of dollar slice. No one has done like that. No one has done the citywide tasting of dollar slices as far as I know. Now there's there's dollar slice, which is traditional sized slice. And then there is you ever had like huge slice like uptown way uptown. There's cornet pizza, and their thing was huge slice right? Not $1. But huge. But the dollar slice. I have to say, for a $1 food item is not bad. What do you think, Matt?

I think it's great. I think people sometimes unjustly lump it in with actual pizza that cost more than $1. And that's not fair. But otherwise, yeah. Dom I'm very pro dollar slice. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, the things. They tell us that we take, they taste the cheese and potato starch and they use bad cheese. Yes, it's $1 is $1. It's $1 $1. And I'll tell you something else. It's the only time pan handling is effective on me is when I'm walk because the dollar slice is less than a block from the bar from existing conditions. That particular dollar slice, which I happen to think is a high quality dollar slice. So if someone's pan handling outside that so they can obtain $1 slice. Well, hell, a lot of sense. I'll buy him $1 Slice I'm gonna We are brothers. I'm not gonna give you $1 But I'll buy you $1 Slice What about Unistats? You know,

kid $1 for his basketball team, and then he said cheapskate. And then I said what? And he said thank

you. Well, Anastasia is the kind of person who would take a bite out of the dollar slice before she gave it to somebody. But the thing also is like I actually I shouldn't say this I sometimes we do second family like shift meal at the end of the night. Sometimes if it's been like a rough night, people working real hard. And sometimes I get them the dollar slice I walk in, because you know, the business doesn't reimburse for that it's out of my own pocket. I'm cheap as hell and people they know they appreciate the dollar slice at the end at the end of a workday, especially because I you know, put a whole boat ton of crushed red pepper flakes, by the way and the Stasi and I not only do we put huge amounts of crushed red pepper flakes onto our pizza, but if you don't, we will judge you. You know what I mean? That's huge amounts of crushed red pepper flakes. So I spoke to the Our pizza guy, Jack trim our head bartender and I went to the zoo about a month ago, we went to the and I said to the guy, yo, how many slices of pizza? Do you sell a day? And he said, I forget was either five or six or six and 700. But somewhere in that range somewhere between five and 700, right? A day. So they're only pulling in because I hardly ever see anyone upsell, you know, occasionally some, some idiot will come in and be like, can I have pineapple on my pizza? I was like, you're at the wrong store. My friends are wrong. So Ron, you had the you had the dude $2 He hands you two slices. That's the way this works anyway. So point is, is that, you know, they're not selling a lot of ancillary crap, I hardly ever see people dipping into that drink case, it is just like, like a line of slices like going out that door. And so to have two to three human beings working in a place where you're renting something, and by the way, providing an actual food item for people to eat, to only have a revenue in the range of $600 a day, and still, like pay all those people. I don't understand how they do it.

I mean, it's $216,000 a year.

Yeah, but you're, you have to pay rent, you have to buy pizza items, you have to pay for the electricity to run the pizza ovens, because I don't think they're guests. Maybe they are. And then you know, yeah, I mean, you have to pay the people who are working there. So then we're like, so what? I'll say it's six to 700. Right? So Jack was like, How many slices you sell a day between six and 700. And then Jack was okay, what's the most you've ever sold in one day, he goes between six and 700. So like maybe it's like a robot and that's how they get away with it. It's a robot. The guy always has the exact same look on his face. Like he always just stares about like 300 yards away. Even though the walls only three feet from him. Just there's 300 yards away and provides pizza for people. It's an interesting cross section there too, because you have people who actually like need dollar slice, but then you have like a wide spectrum of other people. Like I have a song I want to write that I never will called party dress dollar slice because you'll see like, you know, people in their party dresses like pounding dollar slices in between whatever kind of, you know, party events they're going to, and you have like, you know, you know, weasel school kids. It's kind of cool. You know what I mean? It's it's, you gotta call her I gotta call her. My daughter slices. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, what's up, Dave? Hey, Matt.

Hey, you're breaking up a little bit.

Can you hear me now? We can hear you.

Yeah, connections. Little Ben, what's up?

How's it going? I have a problem right now. I've been making I tried to make lemon mckown. And they've been photographed. And I was wondering, because most of these recipes that you find online for the failing for the macaroon. They call you to use lemon curd, like basic lemon curd for your lemon meringue pie, right. But I wanted to make something like that delay, delay. And I was wondering if it was possible to make something with like, centrifuge, lemon juice, and then maybe coloring and then adding some Ultra tech or something that thicken it up without making it cloudy. What are your thoughts on that?

Okay, so what I'm hearing between that because your phone's rubric really breaking up as you're making macarons and you want to do a lemon filling, but you don't want to use traditional lemon curd. You want to make something with lemon juice and then thicken it up and you were saying maybe I could use Ultra Texas and like this, I would not use Ultra Tex. Typically when we when we're doing stuff like this, I mean you can use some Ultra tax but that's going to be kind of I guess you could mean I would probably make a fluid gel out of it. So I would probably make a lemon lemon fluid gel with either Aguilar or gel n because you can make that really thick and then it pipes pretty well right so thicker than you would for something that's going to be a saucer like a really palpable kind of fluid shell because those tend to have a really nice mouthfeel when they eat and they sit really well but if you don't, if it doesn't need to wait a long time, it doesn't need to sit a long time. My favorite thing for mouthfeel with with high acid stuff that's a little kind of out of the ordinary is if you do have a fairly stiff lemon fluid gel with Aguilar and then add that to cream and then put that through a whip or it's not a traditional like like super shelf stable Mac macaron filling because we're cream isn't that stable, but it forms like an acid mousse and acid Cream Mousse which doesn't break for like at least an hour and that stuff is sick because it's got lemon and the cream so it provides a really cool mouthfeel but in general if you just want more of the standard kind of jelly flavor and because you're using something clarified like if you're gonna clarify the lemon juice, you wanted to have more of like a you know that kind of jelly like feel I would do like a fluid gel with either ag or JoAnn probably jelly

and then And then you said, make the make of lemon agar mixture and then add some premium fertilizer.

Yeah, you can do it like pretty high ratio actually, I forget because I haven't done in a while but you know, I added more acid, I added more lemon to it than you'd think. And what it does is that the lemon fluid gel, or you can do casies fluid gel or whatever, like whatever, like the fruit fluid gel you add to the cream just makes the cream texture unbelievably dense. So it's just like this like super dense foam. And at least when I've done it in the past, it takes a long time to break up. It's cool. Like,

perfect. And do you recommend when making this was another question when you were making the macaroon mixture itself? Do you recommend gifting the flour and powdered sugar?

I I'm like here's the thing I like hesitate to even give any advice on macaron making at all, because it's like people have devoted like many, many 1000s of words and many hours in many batches to this on the internet, I would go to someone like Braveheart and see what they say. But in general, for things that are light and airy and aren't going to be beaten the hell out of when you're when you're making them. I almost always sift this stuff together just to get rid of lumps.

Perfect. All right, man. Thanks for your help.

All right, let us know whether it works out. Perfect. I don't know what are you two? So we've been gone for a while. Anastasia, how long have we been gone? A long time but two, three weeks.

Let's talk about LA verts. Because I want to say a nice thing too. You know, it's not nice.

Okay, so I wouldn't say somebody la so when we were in LA. Let me say this first. We're in LA. We're in LA and the Stasi and I are in LA and we're doing spins all demo spins all DeMars Booker and DAX outreach to you know, the other coast, the coast we don't live on, right. So we went to LA and Natasha has this deal with Tesla ever since that's just Yeah, ever since. Ever since we've ever since we've I don't know, she has some sort of I don't know how the hell she knows that Tesla people. But anyway, point is she loves Tesla she's on the list to get one of the cars when you know they finally finished making them all like she has been a Tesla supporter since way back in the wayback. Right huge Tesla supporter. So somehow shake this also Anastasia I don't know if you know this people huge risk taker that you think the Stasi rented from Tesla they were gonna give her like the $40,000 Tesla.

She were like, we're giving you this one. She know

she got like $150,000 Tesla rental model. And like, and they said, Do you want to take out the insurance? She's like, Nah, and she doesn't have her own car insurance, which means she's completely uninsured. Which means that she smashed that car. She's out. $150,000 So anyway, the reason she wanted this particular vehicle, Matt, are you a car person?

No, not really.

But you know go Alright, so she gets the one with Ludicrous mode, meaning like all the wheels are driven like a mother like hardcore. Zero to 60 miles an hour in get this 2.5 seconds. I did the math on that. That is faster acceleration and freefall ie it's going faster on the ground than if you dropped it off of a building now. That is awesome. That is awesome. Except for when she does it on a side street in LA you're like her mom burst into tears. When she did ludicrous voter list as he puts her mom in the in the shotgun seat or as we used to call it the death seat. When I was a kid hits punches Ludicrous Mode. Makes your mom burst into tears.

The worst was when the wheels weren't aligned and they did it and I had to swing it

back. Oh you did? You'd like a racing one at 11 Geez, Louise.

I have a question though. At the end of the day, did she need the insurance?

No, no, no, it still seems very lucky like this the other time like I wasn't I was with me. Miss Darcy has many things Lucky is one of them. Like we were in a we were in a Zipcar. It's not just luck. She like also lateness.

Like, man, when I drive,

what do you mean? I'm not like what I mean? That has no meaning. Anyway, so in the Stasi, Lopez is renting a Zipcar. And I don't know if any of you have ever parked in New York City but a lot of our parking lots here like it's not like in LA where valet means excellence going to actually come get your car and take it and park it and like pretend that they care about you as a human being like here it's like you're not waiting for a valet you're waiting for the attendant and the attendant does not give a crap

there's a long line of people waiting for the attendant like long

line like a 45 minute line. Yeah, like just to park your car and these people are all getting super pretzels super bad. You know what I mean? And we missed asking where have we gone We're Gone To The will be gone to talk to the soda people back and we thought we were going to be soda entrepreneurs, which we are not and so like so we come back from talking to and by the way that's soda guy was a freaking lunatic. More on that later if we ever have to If anyone wants to know about soda lunatics, we can talk about soda lunatics and we can talk about we will we will not talk about but if you find me at the bar we can talk about anastasius family's feeling about how soda bottling plants work. And and they would never get you would never guess. And just as he and I are going to make for her mom, a special towel we can describe later on, you know, bite on Etsy. It talks about how the Lopez family thinks soda is bottled and or canned. I'll give you a hint. It requires catalysing genitalia, and genitalia. So like like, we'll leave it right there. Anyway, so we're back. There's a 45 minute line. And it starts he just pulls around the line into the Get Out Zone. She's coming into the oncoming traffic area because no one leaving because of cars away in the park, right. And people are honking honking, honking honking and a guy gets out of his car with you know that like eyebrows straight like that eyebrows like diving into his the bridge of his nose. He's so angry, like, you know, snot and spit flying out of his face. He's like, We're all waiting here. He's like, Mr. She just looks at him and goes, not my car, don't care and then walks away.

That guy's job satisfaction was through the roof.

Anyway, back to LA. So we had a barbecue. And Dave was right. He was like, I don't think this is a good idea. Because it's not going to be done correctly. The cooking is not going to be done. It was just me and our PR person Rebecca. And we had a bunch of stuff that we were gonna make. And the barbecue was gonna start at 6pm Dave's like I didn't at 520 So we got there right at six and when you entered

Oh, my

God, we had a lot of important people there. It was an awesome house under the Hollywood sign. So

the house is crazy. First of all, it was clearly a sex party house back in the 60s. Because it's like a lot of giant bedrooms with a lot of mirrors and a lot of windows with very little privacy, right? So it's like it's designed such that there's no way you can take a shower without everyone seeing that you're taking a shower. So much so that Anastasia was like you have to go downstairs and lie face down while I take a shower just to ensure that you don't accidentally go outside and you know, is crazy. And you know, you know, Mama Cass I guess they say introduced Nash to Crosby there and the association live there and they're recording cherish and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, cool house. Yeah.

Anyway, Dave walks into this party walk

in and it's supposed to be we're showcasing the spins all and the series off. Let me keep in mind people that Anastasia Lopez is a business partner in Booker and DAX LLC and has theoretically been using centrifuges and sizzles for years. Let's just start with that. Right? It

wasn't a series of the worst. I'll

just give you a hint. I'll give you a hint. So we're doing steaks and we're going to do it, we're going to finish them off, right? With a sizzle. And so I walk into stasis. Like how do you want me to cook the steaks, like really, you don't know how to cook a freaking steak at this point in your life, there's 255 You will do 55 Put them in a bag. No salt because it's gonna be cooked more than four hours more than that later. If we talk about I want you to do it, you know an hour and a half to two hours at and she lied. She said they were two inches thick. They were like an inch thick, which is a different number Anastasia two and one are different. I say cookie like 55 is that those two inch steak for like two hours drop the temperature to 52 let it ride and drop for maximum four hours on the drop minimum one hour maximum four hours on the drop will finish off will be perfect. I walk in

with a beard and a dress.

That's true. That is also true. But you know not germane to the discussion at hand. The stakes are in a metal pot, which for those of you that no I don't advocate using a metal pot because garbage way to do it uncovered. Right, so the things uncovered, so it can't retain the heat. It's been used as a doorstop on the floor, but the good news about not covering it and not retaining the heat is they had failed to turn the circulator on. Oh, yeah, sorry. It was a 55 Fahrenheit for four hours. No, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like Miss dasya. You know that the circulator doesn't have a frickin cooling function right. And then it's 88 degrees in his house, which is still not enough to cook the dang steak. So rookie, I stick my hand and anastasis like, well, we're still going to serve it. And I was like, okay, incubation queen. You've been incubating bacteria and this mother for for our first of all, it didn't follow my instructions to drop the temperature. Regardless of what's going on. Can't

believe she didn't drop it to 52

screwed it up. Yeah. So like, and you know, and also like this stuff hadn't been like clarified right? Because she told so Austin Henley who's at major domo who knows how to use a centrifuge because we've been using a lot. He was like, should I use D one and D two which, you know, wind finding agents in the centrifuge, and stars he was like, Nah, don't bother. And I was like what? Austin of course was right in the stars. He's like, Nah, no. Why add stuff? So then the idea was is we're serving champagne while champagne champagne in the generous sense of champagne. It was kava right. Yeah, yeah. So we're serving like sparkling wine cocktails because it's easy, and it's fun. So we were doing California peaches, which by the way, were delicious. And strawberries. Delicious. We were making clarified stuff and then adding the clarify stuff to the thing. So I was like, so I was like, I'm bringing a regulator. I'm bringing all this stuff I was like, and Don Lee, my partner has this awesome regulator where it's like you just bring this tiny regulator tiny and you screwed onto a SodaStream and you can carbonate with the Sodastream, no SodaStream none of the product is cold, so I can't carbonate it anyway, even if I theoretically had a Sodastream. And worse than that, because I showed up as the party was started. They drank all the kava before I could put the stuff into an N.

And she only bought four bottles of Kava

No, there was eight. So

Austin handily. By the way, former VTX guy now, you know, made a demo came up with what might be the greatest drink innovation in the world. So I want to give credit to Steve on it today. Later today. I want to give credit to him now. So we had a shall we say some extra strawberry after the cover ran out Anastasia. And so what I typically do with strawberry is you clarify Strawberry Strawberry fresh strawberries are anywhere between the area of eight and like nine and a half bricks, maybe nine half percent sugar. So very wide range of sugar dependent sugar. Paying oh my god, I know also, she's like, why can't you use powdered sugar? And I'm going to stop here. Powdered sugar has freaking corn starch in it and you want me to stir it into a clarified thing and then put that into freaking cover. Why don't you just take the kava, shake it and spray it locker room style all over the damn deck. Geez. Anyways, so you take your strawberry juice, and you can break test it or not. And someday I'll give you guys the formula, but it's super boring. So I won't do it on how like how given what the bricks of something is how to figure out how much sugar to add to take the breaks up and take it up to about 20 bricks. Right. So now you have it. It's not simple syrup. It's still very much strawberry, but you add a little bit of sugar, take it to 20 bricks. Do the same thing with the peaches. Take it to 20 bricks. Add some salt to that. And then here's here's the so we're supposed to pour that into Cava but what Austin does is he pops the current the Coronas were blessedly cold. Yeah. So you pour a couple of ounces out of the top of the corona and you top it with the strawberry until the whole thing turns red and he didn't do this, but I want to just shove the lime and so I've been doing it at the bar with many Highlife ponies, the mini highlight ponies I've been making like strawberry Highlife. Because, you know if it's meant if it's meant to be a champagne cocktail, you should use the champagne of beers, champagne of beers. And I have to say, you know, it is a low quality individual kind of a switch. But it is straight up good. I would drink a billion things.

I swear to God. And the one thing I asked Dave was not to yell at me in front of my parents. And he did.

Yeah, yeah, just stay if it doesn't sound like this. So

one thing I asked

one that said the one thing one thing. The one thing you like, show no display. Matt, are you you've heard the scenario I was involved in here, right? Yeah, I heard it. I heard so like,

last borrowed? How

am I supposed to look like gays beard, creating

the conditions for innovation, which is exactly what happened. It's true.

I like that you're you know, you should belong in every Silicon Valley meeting. You need to move out there because that's how you know they think out there. But but the point being that How am I supposed to? I didn't specifically yell or say anything mean, I was just like, I was shocked and appalled. You know, I was appalled. In the end, it

was a great party.

How am I supposed to show look? One of the things that my favorite things about my wife is that when she is shocked and appalled, you know it, you know what I mean? And it's the same thing with me. Like, like, if I'm if I have to do something. So if if random person comes up to me and says something shocking appalling, I generally just put a blank confused look on my face, right? That's in general what I have blank, confused, you know what I mean? But if someone I'm working with I can't hide that.

You know what I mean? It was a great party. We're gonna do it again.

We are going to do it again. The Stasi is in talks to make an even more exciting party, but I like that house. So if you should hear of somebody who owns a house near the Hollywood sign, who, let's say randomly ends up there. had and all of a sudden you hear on this radio program that the Stasi is moving to LA you know what happened?

So nice house.

It's like it's it's kind of stupid it can't believe that it exists. The only problem with it is is it's hard to

About the House you really like in the fact that the view is the same from

Oh, well, so like, you know, I'm not an LA guy. But I was watching that show Bosch that that Amazon detective show Bosch, and that guy's house. Like the view from that house, you see the pollution, something about the pollution in LA makes the lights in LA if you're up in the hills looking at LA, it's like super pretty. You know what I mean? It's like a paint. It's always scintillating. I love it. Like, if I could have that view. I might live there. You know what I mean? Especially because it would mean, you know, like, the thing that I love most about New York and hate most about New York is that you're constantly interacting with people. And I feel that Nilly. You never need to interact with anybody ever. You don't I mean, anyway, I don't know. Should we answer some some questions? Or I'll talk about Harvard later with five time which I'm not gonna have time to talk about right. We'll do some questions. Okay, so Mildred, from how do you think you pronounce his town? Watervliet Watervliet get water liegt Watervliet? I think it's pronounced Watervliet. Sure, moderately. I don't know. I made it up. So someone told me someone told me when I'm wrong, which I always am. Everyone knows I can't read things and pronounce things. What am I pronouncing? No, Mr. Pronounce anyway, she writes in about an interesting sauce. I had never heard of my household has been using the highly underrated barbecue sauce from upstate New York named Cornell sauce recipe below for over a decade now. It's also what I grew up on as chicken barbecue. And it's not that overly sweet tomato base stuff. You know, if people know I'm not a huge fan of barbecue sauces in general as a basic thing, but I am actually kind of pro this style of this, which we'll read about in a second. The style now that I've tried it, but theoretically I like the idea. It's what I grew up with for chicken barbecue mainly at functions catered by Brooks barbecue out of Oneonta. Instead of just using it as a basting sauce. We've also been using it as a marinade, which I always like to butcher as a matter of Nod, right if you like. More on marinates later by the way, if we do get time to talk about Harvard, one of the things I talked about at Harvard was the federal government's idiocy with liquid nitrogen, which I've talked about ad nauseam here. There's there's been more since I talked about it, but I don't have time to go down that rabbit hole again. But the other thing I talked about was salting meat. And in the process of working on my book, reevaluating, salting meat beforehand, and also reevaluate, marinate marination, but again, probably won't have time talk about that. So we've also been using this sauce as a marinade, in part because one batch makes enough to cook for four to five whole chickens, how many times you've seen the Blues Brothers and associa once? What about you, man? How many times you've seen the blue brothers?

Half the time? They're gonna go? Come on, man.

He orders for whole fried chickens, I think was what John Belushi orders from Aretha Franklin, and she's displeased. We also have had success using it on boneless and skinless cuts of chicken and pork. Although you know, you should not do that. boneless skinless chicken. What are your thoughts on boneless skinless boneless I'm for skinless No. Yeah, I don't mean that I'm not gonna get to it. Okay, now that I have an immersion circulator, I've been experimenting with using the sauce in a ziplock with the chicken at 140 Fahrenheit, which is 60 Celsius, Anastasia. For those of you that can tell the difference between Fahrenheit and Celsius. We love the results. But since there's a lot of extra tasty sauce in a bag, it's a shame not to do something with it. We've been trying to reduce it as a parent sauce of some sort. But there's been a couple of problems I hope you have some ideas on how to address them. It takes forever to reduce even in a wide shallow pan. This means that the meat can cool off too much while I'm trying to reduce the liquid. This is a classic problem with Pan sauces in bags. Not for this sauce. But in general what I recommend doing if there's excess sauce in the bag, and you know you're not going to use it right away is depends on the temperature you're using. But for most temperatures you're using in the bag. If you're doing a zippy, pull the bag, dump the sauce out, do a quick reseal on the bag, drop it back into the bath and let it sit in the bath for a couple of minutes while you fudge with the sauce. Almost all of the benefit of the sauce and all the marrying of the flavor between the meat and the sauce has already happened by that time. And you can keep it at certain temperature. While you're futzing with the sauces. It's easy to do. It's not even that messy. It's totally fine. So that's one thing I would do right there. So that hopefully I've solved problem number one to the sauce stays well mixed in the bag while in the circulator but starts to split the moment I pour it into a pan. I can deal with a good deal of I can do a good deal of whisk work and bring it back but the moment I take it off the heat it starts to split again. And since there's so much oil in there, I haven't giving you guys the recipes yet. I find myself trying to pour off a layer of oil before I bring the bowl of sauce to the table. And once it's at the table, you know, it breaks again. Is there any way to stabilize it? Thanks. I'll try to call him but I'll give you the recipe Mildred from waterflood Okay, here's the recipe Cornell chicken recipe, one cup cooking oil. I first of all, like for some reason Cornell This was actually done by Cornell and it's published all over the recipe but they don't give it in standard recipe format. I appreciate standard recipe format of giving you the ingredients in the order in which they are used because it means that when you're reading the shorthand of the recipe, you have a some conception of how the suckers put together just by how they listed ingredients. Do you like it when people do that and start saying yes. So I'm going to this is not in order. One cup cooking oil, one pint cider vinegar talking about an old recipe calling for a pint of anything right? Is that how much you paid me to freaking cups you mean 16 ounces, jerks. Three tablespoons salt and then they put a little asterix because everyone has to be super health conscious now that like if you can't have this salt don't use this I'll put the salt in place. One tablespoon poultry seasoning some people on the web's don't know what poultry seasoning is. And poultry seasoning is like God's gift to the 1970s it is the smell of Thanksgiving stuffing for me I love that stuff. You know it's a it's a mixture of dried powdered herbs and tastes and smells like like old school like American 70s Stuff like that stuff. poultry seasoning, one half teaspoon pepper. And here's the key ingredient, one egg, one whole egg. So give you an idea what they're basically doing here is making a mayonnaise you're making mayonnaise but you're making a whole egg man is so the recipe states that you put the egg in you beat the hell out of the egg you add the oil, right and then you add the to see what else they have add the oil and then they mix the seasoning and all that all the waterbase stuff with the with the cider vinegar and added at the end. So a whole egg Manet's you don't need to add the liquid at the beginning because you have the egg yolk which is an emulsifier and then you have the egg white and the egg white contains enough liquid to form the initial emulsion and also I think and I've read this on the line although I've never made really holy Eggman is before but the whole egg the whole egg the thickness of the white I think also aids in forming the emulsion now man is is a an oil in water emulsion meaning the continuous phase the you know if you put a fish into a tiny any, any any microscopic fish into mayonnaise, it would be swimming through water around oil droplets right so the oil droplets aren't connected to each other the water is what's called the continuous phase and that's being formed by the egg white and the proteins and thickening in there probably help to what they call sterically inhibit or you know stabilize the emulsion as it's being made to make the emulsion formation a lot easier than if you just use egg yolk alone which is a standard man is this is my guess then afterwards so you have probably have a fairly thick man is there because it's one egg and a cup of cooking oil. You then add a pint a pint being two cups which is quite a lot of cider vinegar which in my guess is going to thin it out considerably right and make it tart now the acidity from the vinegar is what's going to cause it to be food safe even if it's not really cooked right because the acidity is going to prevent any kind of salmonella problems you're gonna get from the egg yada yada yada Okay, so that's how this this recipe works. Now the problem when you're cooking it in there's a couple problems from cooking in the bag. Now when you're basing this on by the way, listeners to the show will know that I'm an old time believer in in basting grilled stuff with mayonnaise everyone knows that when I was a small child I learned to bass fish in Cape Cod special specifically blue fish with mayonnaise before I grilled it and I'm a huge fan of basic stuff with mayonnaise for a number of reasons that can help form a nice crust. I also like mayonnaise and then bang over the mandate but it can help form a nice crust the oil it gets a good way for oil to stick to your stuff. It tastes good I like it I'm a big fan of man is in grilling applications. This is fundamentally a man is and you brush it on thin and you go thicker and thicker as you cook so you know I'm cool with it when you're putting it in the bag. A couple of problems happen is one is the chicken is leaking out liquid so you're further diluting so when you're cooking normal chicken barbecue and you're basing it on you're actually flashing off some of that moisture from the vinegar as you as you're cooking you're reducing liquid here you're adding liquid because the liquids coming out of the chicken and going into the into the sauce. So one thing you could do right from the get go is reduce the amount of vinegar that's in the sauce by a good chunk and Doing that will help you just by having a lower total liquid level in the sauce. Now, to increase the acidity, you could use a higher acidity vinegar. So a classic American voter, they use these cider vinegar or something like this, what are the cider vinegar, you could use like partially cider vinegar and partially the super strong Swedish stuff and still get a relatively, you know, cider vinegar is what like 5% acidity somewhere that you can get in that kind of range, you can still do it by reducing the liquid level. So that's part of it, right, so that'll stop the need to reduce it so much, because you won't have added that much liquid at the get go. The other thing I would really recommend doing is, and I think one part of your problem here with the braking might have to do with the fact that you're using whole egg. So what might be happening is is that as you cook in the bag, at six, well, you're only at 60, right? 140 is 60. I mean, I don't know what's going to happen to the egg white proteins in that in that regimen. Typically 60 Shouldn't be enough to set the egg white, maybe in the pan it is and you're heating it in the pan, i My guess was that there's something about the protein in the egg white, that is you know, kind of almost par gelling a little bit and then causing sentries is break. And by doing that causing the emotion to break. My guess is it's something in the egg white. So I would try doing a more direct Manet's ie one that doesn't contain a white. Or you could try stabilizing this and changes the flavor. But you could try stabilizing this with a little bit of mustard. You could also try freezing the egg yolks that'll make a thicker and more stable emulsion salting the egg yolk a little bit before and freezing it. But I really think it has something to do with the egg whites. So I would reduce the quantity of overall liquids so it doesn't thin out as much. And then I would try it without egg white to see if that works. And if you liked the flavor of mustard, I would add a little bit of mustard because once the emulsion is formed that should help it stay What do you think starts to break? Should we take a break? That doesn't care.