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this is the Dave Arnold Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 00 to 1245. Roberta pizzeria in Bushwick not joined as usual by Anastasia hammer Lopez she is even later than I am. She's on her way she got pulled into a meeting. Now let me ask you something sounds bogus. Dave in the booth. Let me ask you something about a meeting. What's the one time during the whole week where you know, you shouldn't be planning a meeting when you're doing your podcast? That is correct. Also, who gets pulled into a meeting? Don't

you have to schedule a meeting? Not in the

old days, in the old days, the boss would just come up with them and have them come into my office. But now that everyone like commutes from home and has like all kinds of like, you know, responsibilities dribbling out of their ears and side jobs and crap. Now everything has to be scheduled. I drive for Uber. Yeah. Oh, speaking.

For real? Yeah, though, to keep my payments down. Lower the bakery? Yeah, of course. So I gotta put my kids through school. So you know, Uber at least like three nights a week.

I'm really tired. I gotta gotta introduce you. But first of all, I'm getting old. First of all, I'm getting old. It may be it's time for us.

Actually, sorry. I meant to say Lyft not not Hooper.

So we have Jim Lahey, founder owner of the Sullivan street bakery, and I guess, part time Lyft driver? And I would say would you say like, can you just give me five stars? How many different Sullivan asked bakeries are there now in New York?

Oh, Jesus. I never I mean, I haven't really given how many direct offshoots of you are there. Well, I mean, in terms of the other companies that like that I kind of influenced if directly or indirectly. All all. I don't know.

For those of you that don't know. And also he's look Peter Kim from the Museum of food and drink is here. Hello, Peter.

And not no longer just punching bag Peter but well. punching bag.

I want everyone to know out there that Peter Kim is now a father. Yeah, the first time first time father. Yeah, yeah. Okay. How many kids? Yeah, Jim. Oh,

I've got three three. All right. So

you know Peter, only one weren't warm, but whatever. The point is, is I feel like it no longer or insult Peter in the same way because then I'm insulting someone's dad. And that's like, that's not cool. You know, I mean,

but you never seem to Bob mind your kids seeing you insult me. I remember you. I remember one of the first times I hung out with Dec See, came over to me and said, Peter, why is my dad so mean to you? I didn't know exactly what to say. Why

don't you tell him the truth? Listen, I deserve it. Dax

is kind of a walking do as I say not as I do that. Exactly.

My thoughts are coming.

That is a freaking lie. And first of all, that is a lie. I take and I receive.

Ooh. Like, I am

like, Trenton.

Oh, no, but I'm in other words, like, like, I give people crap. And I also receive plenty of crap. True. Yeah. And I take it with, in general with good humor is the only people I don't take crap in Cuba from his people who won't? Who won't receive it. Who won't let me with Jeff Bezos? No, Jeff Bezos turns out like his minions have been kind of a good sport about the whole thing. They haven't fixed our problems at Amazon, but they've been kind of a good sport, or listen. So what are we talking about today? So Jim has came out at the end of last year, a new cookbook the follow up to his was it blockbuster success? The original one? I guess, like the like Blockbuster?

I would call it blockbuster. Yeah. So we knew nuclear?

Well, it was like, for a bread book. It's like the, like the best selling black bread book that like, you know, in a long time? Well, I

don't know about that. But it did stay on on the Amazon list for quite some time up in the in the top part. But you know, it's I think more than the book itself, I think it's, it's the method in the book has been imitated, I think by no less than 12 other authors. So I'm, you know, I'm just, I've published the first book. And then, you know, there were other books that came out, you know, trying to popularize the same method.

Yeah. Well, for those of you that don't know, Jim, and I share the editor,

typical American fashional claimed that they kind of like were like, it was their idea.

So yeah, well, no, but thanks. So our editor, the no touch method, our our editor Maria Garner, Shelley, who has since retired, so I didn't get to finish my second book with her. Anyway, she came up right

where it was this soundtrack for the applause.

So like, so the, anyway, so she, she's lovely. So family show on our family show everyone. So she, she came up, I just, I'm just reminding Jim Lahey, who you know, we have similar foul mouths it's just he's not used to be on the radio show and so that's all I was mentioning in advance I've toned

down my my my use of foul language why I don't know I

just because Peter came as a kid now. Right? Maybe that's why

Peter came also a foul mouthed individual. Peter kin, a habitual line stepper so if you take it right, if you take like a conversation right up to the edge of propriety he'll just step right over that line.

Is the pot calling the kettle black? I used to be known for that

ya know I'm the line writer day man

you can involve cross that I did not I do a tip toe I do the toe cross No

no no no I jump I jump over all the dashed lines that people are afraid to go over but then there's these hard lines that then Peter like goes right over the cliff on red line? Yeah, like I go over the yellow line and he just goes on to the platform to use a subway reference

so many metaphors right now anyways,

so the what Marina Garner Shelly the editor like this, that whatever what do you call the thing under the title The tagline What do you call it? Subtitle subtitle Yeah. Was no no need no something and then here's no work. She added the that was her idea writers that yeah, no work. And she's like, that sold a jillion copies. And we were like, I can make this kind of bread with no work. No work. I can make this bread. And they're like see sold a million copies of that.

Yeah. Well, I did. I get my first royalty check. Which was nice.

You need to come up now with a no brains method. Someone who's really dumb can make it. What do you think?

I think there might even be a no need for no need bread for Dummies at this point.

So so well. So for those of you also that don't know, Sullivan street bakery. When did you open 90

worth 24 years old this year?

What does that mean? 9494. So I moved into the city. Right, right then, like that's right when I moved to the city was brand new. And my wife and I were in grad school. And the bread cheers. Cheers. Congratulations, Peter. Bread in New York City. I think I've said this on the air before was freaking awful. Like the bread in New York City was I mean and embarrassment, in fact that one of the reasons to travel to Europe and other places was that they had decent bread. And our bread was garbage. And by the way, the impression that all Europeans still to this day half of America is that our bread is bad. And not to, you know, pump you up any more than you need him. But like, when I first went to Sullivan street, I was like, Holy Christ, I was like, you know, someone cares about their bread, they're focused on a specific style, they care about it. I remember used to at the front counter, you had all those pizzas like beyond I have

to thank all the staff from stopping me from putting in an ATM machine. And some soft serve ice cream. Yeah, you know, I was I just wanted to take it in all these like, no typical directions, read the typical breads. The

boys had display, you know, all that everyone likes to Boris head display.

Thankfully, all my employees were like rallied against me saying no, you have to keep it really traditional.

Okay, and so, also at the time, he had these things that were called pizza like Bianca, did you hear the potato one as well? Did the potato one we did? Yeah, we

did, like typical pizza that you would get from a bakery.

Right? But Americans,

the only difference is in Italy, where socially the bakery represents this, it's like this daily necessity. And also, it represents a kind of like Thrift, like the cheapness of bread in Italy really matters that resonates with people, the they feel the bread should be inexpensive. But there's this deep tradition and culture of method methods and techniques and forms and all this other stuff. But in Italy, the bakers would use to make like a potato pizza, the the crappiest oils and potatoes and they don't necessarily, like, cherish. back then. But now if you go to Italy, you see that, you know, a lot of these forms that were maybe not front and center, but popular have become even more front and center. You know, you put the

song in my head now. Yeah, so James actually inspired a whole new kind of pizza in Italy to top of everything else in New York. Wow,

what do you mean computers just being pierced? No, no,

no, I'm not. No, I'm not trying to imply that that's fine. But you can see there are certain forms that have been constantly. I'm not doing anything new. I'm just doing I'm just doing, like my rendition, my version of something that I ate in Europe, basically, when I was a wee one.

How do you feel about all the maze on Kaiser's that have cropped up everywhere on your

crazy, I think it's amazing that, you know that there's obviously a market for that, for this market. It's very French approach, I think it's encouraging to see, I don't know, you know, from an operation standpoint, how they could make money but but if they do, then great. I also think, just because I know how expensive some of the real estate is, and also how much sales are required. However, most of the companies that come in, in this format, like you see all this sort of this proliferation of like new coffee companies and blue stone lane and Joe and the juice and all this other shit, like hey, Steph finish up where we're being rolled out and you realize it's it's just kind of like investment, money and investment groups and people trying to sort of capture this sort of ever changing, shifting market. It's almost like

you really think it's that I think if people hate their lives, and they like food

no, we now we've become a we have expectations where we had less before. We have much more expectation now about how things should be I mean, the diner is the old you know, I mean, I mean, in the golden days and the golden days of Yelp, you know, when when Yelp mattered had a golden day. Well, in the beginning when people would like, you know, what I remember when I opened code 10 years ago, which recently closed that like that was so important to see, to kind of follow your Yelp feed, if you will, and see what your ranking in your rating was. But then as time went on, like everything else in this world in which we're living it became kind of kind of corrupted by bots and became became well it was already well known as Golden. Well, almost a golden age, all the TripAdvisor now No, no, no, we're still at the second inning in terms of these types of things. In services, I mean, pretty soon, Roberta's is going to be hiring waitstaff from the basic Uber version of waiters that come in. And and basically, I'm here to work in your restaurant as a waiter.

They told you this.

Your love, no, but eventually what's going to happen with technology is it's going to basically envelop us. We're almost there. I mean, we know we've got like, maybe a finger sticking out of the envelope. We know and we know that there's sunlight because we can feel the warmth on our finger, or it's maybe I mean, I'm as pessimistic someone's nose or

something. I'm as pessimistic as the next fellow. But I know that's a mystery people, people, I think there are people who will pay, like why people every once in a while, people try to bring back the automat. Right. And honestly, if the food that I'm going to get his garbage, I'd prefer it to be a zero human being interaction, you know what I mean? But I think there's always going to be a market. And let's be honest, because we make very little in this country with our hands anymore. Right. And, you know, to the extent that we do make things here, they're made by robots, because that's the only way to do it. Like economically. To that extent, there's millions, hundreds of millions of people in service jobs that have no business being in service jobs, because they don't care about other human beings or about service, right. And so you don't necessarily want to interact with those people, because they don't want to interact with you. But I think at the high end, there's always going to be a market for a human interaction, one where you actually like, like, and to use your word from earlier, cherish

Well, the other direction, but goes back to the mission of hospitality, which is one of hosting one of welcoming one of kind of curating for someone and experience I mean, that it's, it's a, it's a form of embrace, not just with, with words or, you know, plates or dishes or, or styles of cuisine. It's, I mean, that's ultimately what hospitality is about me, for me. You know, I mean, the best designers, the best chefs the best, you know, I mean, it may be on a certain level, for certain operators, it gets easier because they have access to so much resource, but it doesn't mean that they're going to succeed. It doesn't mean it's going to necessarily resonate. It's not like, bad design, but it's not like there's an there's an algorithm now, I'm sure there is already is a bot that studies, you know, the algorithm of what the next type of food concept of food trend is going to be based on, you know, an algorithm of,

there's big money in that. Yeah, but

I'm saying it, but at the end of the day, why the fuck would we why? Why the Pharaoh salad. Would we want to? We want to worry about that right now. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, I wake up in the morning, I go to my little coffee bar, which happens to be downstairs. And

you're like, and I own it. Right? Like, if I say that mediocre food, mediocre design, mediocre environs, top notch fo H service, good experience, well, flat across

but then again, you're also like, there's a whole army of people who know how to make coffee art and how to pull shots. I mean, there's I think there's even a, an A employment service that kind of functions like Uber for coffee bars, where I own a coffee, I don't want like 10 coffee bars, and I'm missing a team member here and a team member there anything about and, and there's a sort of like, circulation of voluntary baristas. Now,

according to David Shomer, that's your first mistake owning 10 He's like own two maybe?

Well, I mean, again, it's like what is it there is this sort of like desire or reach in our culture right now for grandness for bigness for bullet turns out by money find the you know, the the guidance, missile guidance, or contractor investor, dude who needs to kind of laundered money from Israel or whatever. So negative all the time. No, no, wherever from Germany,

laundering from anywhere. I'm very

lost, right here. Yeah, you want to call?

Yeah. Caller you're on the air,

Germany, Switzerland.

Hey, Dave. Hey, hey, how are you doing?

All right, what's up?

Hey, I've got a rack of beef Steris cut from like the rib primal. And I was wondering if you had any advice on low temps or other unique ways of cooking this thing? I know there's not a ton of meat on there. But I'm just curious to hear your thoughts.

So you cut you cut the ribs off of the ribeye. Do you did you cut the whole bone off so you have the whole thing or did you cut the short? Did you cut them short and left the bone on the ribeye?

No I got the whole thing, because I didn't do it but like the big long rib rack with all the meat between them.

Yeah. What? What grade levels of meat do you know?

Probably Choice. Choice.

It's a really I kind of like that word choice as a word choice choice. But I actually liked that word better than prime prime. Like that

choice. Amazon choice. Yeah,

choice anyway, so back to your problem. What I would do is look, and the honest fact is, is what what access do you have to the out of doors,

I can get to like a Weber market smoking or something like that.

Alright, here's my, here's what I would do, I would just if you have a bag, typically what I do is I low temp, everything I would, if it's tender enough, as is which sounds like it is I'd throw it in the bag in a bag with some with some olive oil. If you want to put some spices in it, whatever you consulted or not, I'd add pepper at the get go depends on how long you're going to let it go. Then I would cook it at I'm looking at my hands had the size, I would cook it at 55 degrees Celsius for in the area of an hour, hour and 20 Because you're not trying to tenderize it that much. You just want to guarantee that it's that whole level then I I would let it cool down. You can let it sit out whatever cuz you're going to, you know, grill the hell out of it later. Then fire up your grill hot. I'm a huge fan. Everyone's all about control. I detest control in all things. I like temperature control on temperature control when you're going low. But when you're going high, go high. Just go Hi, Dave is a surfer. Just like go high fives go. He's

a flame surfer.

It is true. So like my, the way that I've been cooking in advance for the book that I have coming out with the butane bottles. No, no like so literally what I do is because I have a lot of extra woods, I just tried to make these maximum size fire fires to imitate almost in a horizontal fashion. The flame intensity, you get out of a tandoor and I create what amounts to a funeral pyre in inside of my relatively large grill because I have a cowboy you know, grill. And I have infinite wood at the house. So I make these big fire you do infinite Jesus days, you had to go there. Anyway, so I would go, I would go, I would go high, high heat on it. And then I would just put them off and on, I would put it on for depends on how high your flame is between 45 seconds and two minutes, pull it off for about three minutes back on pop up until you get the crust that you want. And that way you can shift everything off and on your grill until everything is done. So I tend to I tend to be nowadays of the instead of trying to regulate the heat, I just regulate the amount of time that it's on the heat. Very rare that you don't want a nice crust on the outside of your food. And just by taking it off and on, you will lower the average heat input into the middle of the meat so you're not going to overcook it. And you every time you apply it to the high temperature for even short periods of time, you will you will make a better and better crust on the outside. So that's typically what I do. So for something like you have, at the level of heat I use, it's probably two times on at a minute aside, and that's going to be like real nice and sharp on the outside. But again, like yo for me, that's like putting it inside of a kiln. Basically, if you have a less intense flame, you might want to do it three times. But just if you're going to do it a lot of times make sure to rest it in between this is how in a tandoor, you can have a juice eat well, they also marinate and beat the crap out of the meat. But this is how you can have you know not overcooked viciously, but have a nice outsides by OFF ON, OFF ON OFF ON. And that's kind of what I would do. But I would always insure yourself with the low temp ahead of time. This way, there's no such thing as under your only mistake is to go over it. It's not that much extra time because honestly, you know, unless you're some sort of freak show, you're probably prepping at some point during the day. So throwing

or you could even prepare the day before Yeah, it's

not gonna, it's not gonna hurt you. That's what I that's like what I would do and then also

gives you more time to send out handwritten invitations to your friends.

Yeah, the good news there is if you also if you need to make some chicken for somebody else. Also, you don't even need a low temperature chicken because it's so thin. You don't need a low temperature chicken get by thighs right by chicken thighs, Pound the chicken thighs out relatively thin, don't bones and all I remove I always remove the bones and the little thing of cartilage so if you buy bone if you buy people, if you buy bone chicken thighs, please remove that one nasty vein that they always leave in. And please remove that little piece of cartilage on on the bone that for some reason that a hole can never clip off for you. So remove that little cartilage knuckle because it's unpleasant.

Are you are you calling my friends at home?

I am man assaulted but don't do anything else. assaulted pound it's in between two pieces of cell Fein, then I do a classic yogurt, lemon juice, pepper, garlic and green herb of green herb of your choice and maybe a spicier choice and a little bit of sugar not to make it sweet little bit of sugar. That's kind of the marinade that I use and some oil add extra oil, and then you just put that in a zippy or if you have a vacuum, I vacuum that with the chicken for a couple of hours. That'll tend that'll tenderize it that acid in the yogurt and the lemon juice will tend

to rise. I'm a firm believer in if you're going to marinate chicken the repeat brief, yeah, not that long. Not that long. Otherwise, the texture of the meat becomes like fucking nasty. Hey,

family shows Sorry, sorry, sorry. Why don't you like twice I

hate that. Like you have to go to restaurants where they over marinate the meat. It's almost like like,

right but remember though, you're over marinating. Like thick cuts of meat is like hyper problematic if pounded sin and you're going to do that next thing I tell you that it's not quite as bad then grill at infinity. Right? Like just like, like real flat off on off on off on. Here's the other thing. I don't based with oil in between because I'm a lazy weasel so I spray Pam on it in between. So like I'll pull it off the fire spray Pam on it throw up on you, Fox and tell you man, when you get old you get lazy. It's just like you saying before, like now that I like now that I'm 40 Whatever. What am I 47 I realized I need to buy gears from my bicycle like my whole life and like I don't need gears on my bike. I don't need a free wheel. I'm not a lazy man. But you know, going over the bridge shit. And I'm like, You know what? Maybe I could maybe I could use a gear on my bike. Maybe I could use if

you can always use a

gear. You didn't come in pretty. I live in Portland and people here they go crazy over there. Fixies. And I think honestly, people who buy gears, they're just dumb. There's dumb.

Wow, I like that strong statement. I'll take but here but here's the thing, New York City here I'll tell you why I have a fixed gear bike. New York City is by and large flat we have one decent hill in the 90 Somewhere up by kitchen Arts and Letters to the bookstore, we have a we have a couple of bridges that have a kind of a decent incline. But otherwise, we're pretty flat. And the problem with New York is is that my bike is stored in my closet. And so my derailleur kept on getting whacked out of whack out of adjustment constantly. And so because like to ride in New York, I don't know what it's like in Portland, but to ride in New York if you're going to actually lock your bike outside. This is way before city bike. The chain was heavier than my bicycle and it took also like it took like 10 minutes to properly lock it and unlock it and you would infill thing yourself every time with the chain. So I'm a huge fan Peter Kim is as well as bringing your bike inside with you which means for me folder, right? But the derailleurs kept on getting annihilated and I was throwing chains constantly on the street. Like I'd be going down the street. You stand on the pedal to get going off of a light you throw the chain. The fifth time that happened. I'm like, no, no, no. So the question was, am I going to go to a single speed freewheel? No person? I was gonna go to singles brief speed freewheel or am I going to try the fixie? And I was like, You know what? I'll try what the heck. And then like, I just haven't changed it since it's been like, you know, 1012 years of my life. But I think in my time in life, I'm old enough that there is like, it's just it is, as you say, stupid to not have some gears on that thing. What do you think? I mean, Archie Sturmer like a hub gearshift system. I've never used one. They're not they're not really very efficient, though, right?

I don't know. Thinking about that. I just know. Sounds like you got a good reason. here in Portland. We've got hills and honestly, people who are struggling with those hills sweating beats.

Yeah. Hey, do you do you guys have bike thieves there?

Oh, yeah, it's terrible. Probably not as bad as New York,

like these people that steal people's transports, you know? Like it? You don't know. Like, first of all, you don't know what that bike means to somebody.

I can think of one thing worse. What people who steal your musical instrument?

Oh my god. Yes. That's, that's vicious. You know, there was a rash of like double bass tests recently. I heard Yeah. Yeah. No, if you steal somebody's livelihood or somebody's form of artistic expression, like, that's when I wish there was a hell for you to go to. You know what I mean? Anyways, to answer your question about the ribs,

but if there's a hole below yeah, we're all gonna get the five thrown on a hot grill. on off on off.

Make sure that cooled down, let them come down to roof temp. Don't put them at 55 on the grill or you'll be ruining Christmas. Unless you don't celebrate Christmas, in which case, you'll be ruining the holiday of your choice. Yeah, but, uh, tweet us, tweet us back was not how it worked out. Okay. All right. I got a well, maybe after one of these questions. I can actually say I answered a question that was

typed into your question, then we'll take a break. All right.

This is from Chef Dante Martinez in Seattle. So this is a West Coast program. errantly today. I'm a chef in Seattle and I have a very small kitchen. And the Twitter if you want to look at the kitchen is at the cottage, Bothell, Bothell or Battelle, th but Bothell or botella

brothel?

I think it's a typo was supposed to be a brothel. You guys are

the worst. What the heck is that? Would you people always in the gutter. So, chef has no gas. I use portable induction suevey Or as my relative say, sous v cvwd. And an oven. One of my hit menu items is my CV jerk chicken jerk jerk. People. I whenever I see the word jerk, I have to say jerk that way. Why? Because DAX DAX also does it. Jerk. Anyway, so he calls me that sometimes he's like, Dad, don't be a jerk. You don't think the word jerk is really cool. The way the K hits the J and the K holes is Dax. He's 13. And same mentally just means that your jerk jerk jerk. Yeah. Although Booker calls me a jerk and honest more than DAX does, like when he means it more than DAX does.

How does Booker 16 Okay, yeah,

he also calls me an idiot on a constant.

That's normal fairly regularly. You remind him that's a normal thing. No, you should actually remind him that if he doesn't, then there's something seriously wrong with the universe. It is completely the way it's supposed to be as just as you probably said the same things or at least thought the same things but weren't able to say them because it was a different time.

Yeah. You weren't allowed to say that crap.

Do you think I'd say that now? But then kids should be allowed to say that? No,

it's not a matter of whether they should it's it's acknowledging the fact that they do see a big difference. And can and can big differences between

Asian families and non Asian families too? Well,

I grew up culture culture.

I never talked back to my parents ever, ever. I will get smacked. Yeah, I didn't either. Yeah, and then I'd be shocked when my friends would like, yeah, call their parents stupid or whatever. Like, just out of question.

Good times. Okay. So back to the question. So people, people rave about chef Martinez is your chicken and it is good, but I want to take it to the next level. I would love to smoke the chicken with pimento wood, but pimento by the way, pimento is all spice tree. Right. So I've never seen the wood. Right? A huge fan of all spice people. Some space on space.

I like all space. Yeah, Jimmy can pepper Yama. Yeah, it's also known as to make him pepper.

Okay, you're all spice you're pimento dram the liquor there's I like all spice anyway. I've never had that. I've never used the word. Anyway. I would like to smoke with pimento wood, but it's just too dang expensive. too important to Seattle. My question is is there a way to get the essence of the of the wood that particular wood into the jerk marinade? If I were to buy some wood having imported can I capture the essence of the smoked wood into an oil liquid? How would you solve this problem? Thanks, Dante Martinez. Okay, here's the thing. I looked it up and dang that stuff is expensive. real expensive. There is a Bradley. First of all, you have a couple choices here. You can you can parse smoke stuff on the wood for instance, you can do liquids, liquids that are a little bit tackier, tend to take up smoke better so people will smoke like for instance, barbecue sauces and things like that. I looked up online a lot of people are smoking like the like onions so if you have a lot of onions in a sauce like barbecue sauce, for instance, they'll cut up a bunch of those smoke them and then blend that into this into their sauce to get a smoky flavor. If I was going to do it, I would probably do the sauce. I don't think you're going to find a liquid smoke. Maybe you will I was not able to. That is specifically pimento wood right? I also looked up and it is not that expensive to buy. There's two there's two things I saw Bradley Smoker which bring the Bradley Smoker makes these these pellets these. These like you know pucks these pellets. They have one called Caribbean wood but I think they're liars. I think what they do is they put all spice the spice into mesquite chips. And I don't know whether all spice the spice and pimento wood the wood have similar smoke profiles. So I would test it but since you probably know what you're talking about, since you've used it in the real life, you know your mileage may vary but there is someone who sells pellets of pure I think pure it said pimento wood and it is quite pricey. It is was $60 or $70 for 20 pounds or like $3 a pound or something like this. But you're burning about in a pellet smoker. You're burning about a pound to a pound and a half an hour. And you're not going to smoke your sauce if you have it in lots of trays. And so you have trade, trade, trade, trade, trade, trade trade and a smoker. You're not burning that much. Let's say you smoked your sauce for three hours. You're marinate for three hours. I think you could get a good amount of flavor into that or if you're doing the onions you could do even less probably Like 45 minutes, and you can get a good amount of flavor, and it's costing you between three and $6 an hour. So the question is, how much sauce can you load in to your box? And then you factor out your cost that way, but I think that's probably the way I would do it. But I don't know that, you know, I don't know that you're going to find any commercially available. I mean, if you went to a flavor house, and you're like, I'm making a jerk, saying fake this smell, they would do it. You know, how accurately they would fake it? I don't know. But I think you could probably do it for fairly economical price the real way this way. That's what I would do because those smokers aren't that expensive. And you can jerry rig one if you can't, you know, can't buy one. What do you think? Yes, no? Yeah, yeah. plausible? Yeah. All right. We'll take a break, come back with more cooking issues.

This episode of Cooking issues is brought to you by Bob's Red Mill, an employee owned company that has been offering organic stone ground products for decades.

David, we have a question from a listener about Bob's paleo pancake mix. Makayla wants to know if she has to make pancakes or if there are other creative ways to use it. The ingredients are almond flour, arrowroot, starch, organic coconut flour, organic coconut sugar, sea salt, cream of the cream of tartar and baking soda.

No. So this is basically a knot. This is an ingredient mix that you could use similar to bisque quick, but in so anything you would use this quick for, but you want kind of a gluten free slash farmed grain free kind of a recipe you can substitute it out for. I mean, I don't know how many cave people were making pancakes. That seems like not kind of a cave person thing to do. But yeah, any one of those is basically a bit quick. So

if you want to experiment with paleo pancake mix, go to Bob's Red mill.com and use the code cooking issues. That's one word all caps cooking issues for 25% off your order

Well, the jerk stock gold, they're running out of you. Nice. Alright, so I didn't wait. So I got a couple things I gotta get to real quick before we do anything else. Do we have any callers? No, currently. Okay, so tell me about that. What's new about that new book, what's different about this book as well,

it's kind of a guide to making sourdough at home, it covers a lot of the breads that we make. At Sullivan street bakery, plus some items that we used to make once upon a time plus some things that we don't just kind of for fun. It covers a lot of different techniques and methods for making and putting together Tao both No need and, and needing sourdough use extensive. This is a book, some fermentation of vegetables, which is something I enjoy doing and something we incorporate at the cafe. And yeah, it's just a lot of fun,

true or false. The average person who has sourdough at home the starter as much like I was at the beginning of the show spent and nasty, right, it's just been sitting too long, it's out of breath. It's like, you know,

what happens to a sourdough is that the microbes go into depending on the the, the state of the starter, the starter, whether it's a liquid starter or a more of a solid starter, but basically what happens when, when the dough reaches a certain level of acidity, like below 4.2 All of the you could say the floor are the microbes that would be useful for making bread form cysts like shells. And those shells protect the you know, the organism. And the organism basically stays the yeast. And in some cases, bacteria, certain classes of bacteria basically stay suspended until the conditions change and the substrate

remember their relative their relative balance also gets Yeah, so

I mean, you could have, like lob you'll have if it's real sourdough starter that's been in your fridge for like, you know, nine months or something. You could theoretically cut off or scrape off all the mold and just take a look a hunk of it, and it should under the right conditions. Oh,

so you're so you for most people at home, you're a fan of the of the real solid center.

And I actually like I think if you use a solid starter over time that it influences the flavor profile of the of the of the final loaf

of bread negatively or positively or just differently definitely,

I think positively I think I prefer using an author just for management to manage them.

All right, the average person at home wants something that they can use between twice and like 0.25 times a month, and it's going to be consistent and they can bring back to life within one day.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's yeah, that's the thing. So you just have to like everything else in life that's worthwhile. Practice. And also in my book, we give you lots of different tips on things to be aware of

the eating for that baking schedule. A more solid starter is the best way Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure, because things are always happening slower in that. Yeah,

I mean, I took also, you know, I, you can dehydrate and sourdough starter very easily, letting it putrefy literally acidified. putrefy basically is the word and dropped to an acidity of like 3.8 or 4.2 or lower but, and then you can create a slurry. And if you have a dehydrator at home, you could put a like basically a schmear of slurry of the liquid on parchment paper and just let it dehydrate.

Only New Yorker thinks the word schmear is even remotely appetizing.

Well then we will say more like a think of bagel or something like that the word that you use to describe

so I spread it out you d high D high setting.

Yeah, yeah. Or like you know, in an oven with with like the utility lead on overnight or something like that to something to dry it out. You could even just leave it on. And you could leave it on, you know, just to dry out on your counter. But then there is always that risk of spoilage organisms or lighting on it. He's drinking his

favorite kind of organism. So and then how long does that take to bring back to life?

If it's a I mean I kept the starter in my freezer for after it had dried like for years

but how long does it take to make

it with within within 24 hours it was it was already active.

Just just get paid within 24 hours.

I would take the dry starter I would edit I would kind of bring it back to life in a more a wetter environment like one to one or wetter your one to one like better better consistency. So I dilute it in the water add some flour, put it put it into like a clean a very a very clean mason jar with lid screwed tight and the reason why I say put the lid on tight is because then you can see if the dough is the liquid is beginning to gas because the liberal pop a little bit. And that's always a good sign. And got to remember that yeasts that that make our beer and our wine tastes good and our bread tastes good. Or anaerobes they're just as happy without oxygen as they are with