Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's show is being brought to you by Bob's Red Mill believers in good food for all learn more at Bob's Red mill.com/podcast.

My name is Hannah Fordham. I'm the membership coordinator at her dish radio network. But even before I joined the team, I loved listening to Hrn during my subway commute, it made the time go quickly and left me feeling inspired for the day ahead. Hrn listeners tune in from all over the world. But there are a few traits that we all have in common, no matter where we listen from a curious palette, the fierceness to make a difference, and a hunger for lifelong learning about the culinary world. As you know heritage Radio Network is a listener supported nonprofit. To deliver the most ambitious entertaining and other moments stories in 2018. We need your help. We need to raise $150,000 By December 31 To accomplish these goals and to keep your favorite shows on the air. Together we can make this hrs most exciting, impactful and delicious year yet become a member by donating today. Join us at Heritage radio network.org/donate And you'll immediately start enjoying benefits such as VIP invitations to HR and events where you will mix and mingle with your favorite hosts. Memberships also make a perfect holiday gift for all the foodies in your life. This year. Why not give the gift of food radio. You'll hear your generosity and action for the year to come. help keep our lights on and our mics hot by pledging your support today at Heritage radio network.org/donate Thanks for listening

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn joined again this week as usual with Anastasia the hammer Lopes good we got Dave in the booth. Good we got Matthew sin not our Matthew though right now. Oh, different Matthew For Matt. Matt. Matt, what do you do for what do you do for a living in the booth over there?

I just watched Dave move knobs.

Yeah, is this like it like so that someday you can like have someone watching you move knobs? Is that the goal here? No. My goal is to professionally watch him. Wow. That's a sweet job. Yes, specific. Yeah, by the way, this is the last show before Thanksgiving. So calling your last minute although odds are look, it's Tuesday. If you haven't planned your Thanksgiving. I'm not going to say that your host but pretty much yeah Has your host call in your Thanksgiving or other related questions to 718-497-2128? That's 718-497-2128. But since this week is Thanksgiving, what does that mean for next week? Miss Darcy? Do you know? It means we will be knee deep in Christmas music? Is that the and I go

we go ape. Come on.

Really? Anastasia. I'm surprised.

First of all on the Stasi, he gets to bring on her Christmas hat. Which is one of the great hats of all times. Have you David, have you seen? Of course you've seen the statues? Christmas? What is it

like a Santa's house? Oh,

it's a tree. It turns her head into a Christmas tree and I await it every year with the same sort of expectation that other people wait for the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree. Wow. Every every year she threatens she's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna light it up this year. I'm gonna get some lights that like a battery. But she never does. She spends too much time on the wine Santos by the way. Scrub ahead. Describe

that. You've seen

it. It's just a Christmas tree. Yeah, it's that's lit that has lights but they're not

little balls. Yeah, it's got little things coming off of it. And it's like pointed and tall. And year after year, it manages to never looked crestfallen. Like, yeah, like, you know, Hemlock trees, not the stuff that you know, what's his name? Socrates. That's a small plant that he prides himself on. Or when he allowed himself to be poisoned with Hemlock trees. They, they the tip of them goes over to one side, that's one of the ways you know, a that it's a hemlock tree and not like up some sort of regular pine tree. And B, that's how you can tell the direction of prevailing wind usually, because that's how they that's how they go over. But yeah, but anastasius tree clearly, always erect some sort of spruce or fir. Or, you know, sticking straight up in the air. You know what I mean? Wow. So anyway, so I'm looking forward. Looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to obviously Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Our favorite our favorite? Yeah, although I played the, you know, I think his name is Arlie Urmi. Know the guy from full metal jacket that? Yeah, so I played the version of his voice over top of the lead l screaming at her, me and two, and you know, what might Jen was not amused? Really? Maybe it's because she thought it was inappropriate language for a 12 year old to hear. But I mean, it looks exactly like it. Of course, he liked it's gotta had all sorts of like, horrible, like, you know, do you know that they have this is totally not cooking related. But do you know that they have a difficult time now it used to be that, like, it was super easy for them to find drill instructors, a lot of people want it to be depends on which branch of the service you're in, whether it's a drill instructor, a drill sergeant drill, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But yeah, apparently, like the rules now, because you're not allowed to personally insult people, to the extent that you used to, it's harder and harder to find people because everyone wants to basically, you know, scream maggot at people all the time. You know what I mean? Anyway, little aside, I have no anyone who anyone who's currently in the service and is on the chat or recently, you know, weigh in on weigh in on new school versus old school drill instructing. Because, you know, it's kind of like, it goes back a little bit to what we've been saying about the kitchen the way a lot of kitchens kind of run this way. I think unnecessarily because it's not the military. And, you know, if you don't stick Yeah, Elijah, honestly, it's not like you have to, it's not like you have to like, you know, blindly count on the person next to you, whether you loathe them as a human being right in the military, you have to count on them with your life. Like all the time, you know what I mean? And kitchens, it's more like, it's important that you not mess up the food. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I'm not saying it's not important obviously, I based I based my professional life on trying to not mess up the food. I'm trying to be a personal quality but it's not the same. I mean, let's be

a little bit let's get a little bit low quality individuals at the end of the day, right? That's true, but I

mean, what I'm saying is let's get a little bit of perspective on on it you know what I mean? Can we

talk about that the spin cells are going to be an Amazon soon

well, they're supposed to be there already Anastasia and if

you're not gonna afford them by Black Friday, some are going to be there by black that's a

lie is going to start okay. Here I am hoping it's a lie. It's not going to happen people I'm telling you, we're hoping for Cyber Monday which is what a load of horse crap that is right? Cyber Monday. And what do they get if they ordered a spins all anything special Listen, listen, people listen, I have to those of you that already have it. First of all, we have one we have a listener who said I bought one but I didn't tell my significant other and she already is like, Why do you have this sizzle thing and now and it Yes, it is a man Yes, has a spins off wants to know what he can make in it to please the significant other such that they will not think that it is that it is a ridiculous purchase? As I was like, I don't know what do they like, you know what I mean? And it only thing is like unless you really, really clarify juicers I was like make a lot of butter for them, because that's cool make lob. Well, guess your favorite. I think it's one of our one of our Canadian, one of our Canadian listeners we'll talk about later. But if any of you guys have recipes out there to convince the significant

others send out a blast to everyone that has a spindle, and I want to know how they're using it, and if they're using it for Thanksgiving purposes,

I need to make some stuff with Thanksgiving because we want what we're hoping to get likes. In fact, Anastasia wants to have a contest, we got to see what we're going to give people. But a contest for, you know, cool uses of the spins, all other than the stuff that we've already done. So look for an email today. So what are we going to do like T shirts, cocktail cubes to what? We don't know what

we went up the cocktail cube.

I don't know how we could give a cocktail, you don't like the T shirts.

So we got a bunch of those laying around.

If anyone has any opinions over what we should give as a prize, that doesn't involve traveling across the nation, you give Dave a personal phone call. With no one wants a personal phone call with me. No one wants a personal phone call. They're gonna get ya, what are they gonna get? Look, I'm much worse people. Anyone that's ever had a personal phone call with me knows how they go. I'm either like, I'm either just trying to get off the phone, or I'm, you know,

I don't know, like to scream at each other on the phone every day.

Not every day,

not on Tuesdays, because we know we're gonna see each other. And then we wait until after it's like pretty much every other day. One of us is had has had a bad time. And so like we will we can't allow the other person to just go along with it. We have to speak to phones. And by the way, Doc said, Hey, Dad, you're going to get to any food things this week. Really? Yeah, he's like, he's already sticking it to my 12 year old. Maybe I shouldn't show him that. The drill drill sergeant stuff anyway, drill instructor stuff. So I was thinking about this, I was in the in the grocery store, right. And I was watching this kind of, you know, 20 Something millennial person, like her face, like connected to her phone as she was checking out at the grocery store, such that the cashier, who also is usually face deep in a phone while she's doing her job is like shoving the receipt, like into this lady's eye. And I was like, I was like, you know, if I lived in if I pulled this kind of garbage of not knowing what was going on around me in New York City in the 80s. Like, like, I would have been naked I would have I would have looked down and be like, where's my pants? They've been stolen? Along with my you know, oh my god. Like if I owned a car, I'd look over and like all the wheels would be gone. And if the thief was nice, be honest, cinderblocks. Usually not you know what I mean? Like, unless it helps them get the rims off. They're not going to bother with the blocks. And I was like, what? Like, like, you would have been like, that's it you would have been toast. Like it gets. It's like this whole New York City, millennial phone self absorbed thing would not have been possible back in the days before. It was ridiculously safe here in the city. You know what I mean? Yeah, be people people walk around like they're in their own womb, you're also

presuming that only Millennials get lost in their phones, which is definitely not true. Well,

no, that's true. But I mean, like I do it time to time, I have to admit, everyone does it time to time. But as someone who used to walk around the streets having to like, you always had to look over your shoulder, you had your bag in a certain way on guard. I see people now with crap hanging out of their pockets like dollar bills. And it's like, in one way, like, thank goodness, the city is safe like that. But on the other hand, I mean, gracious like, what like when people travel? Do we just get Do we just get like obliterated and other countries that aren't safe? Because we just don't pay attention to the world around us? Or do we suddenly get our kind of animal instinct back on and like learn how to not

animal instinct Monday nights on heritage Radio Network? Really? What was it about animals? What about them? How they taste instincts? No, no, no, it's how to hunt them. No, no, it's like loving and caring for animals. Really? Yes. Like pets? Well, not necessarily. Like there was one about whales. You know,

I have a I told you like, I would never eat. I would never eat a whale, right. But I have several old recipes for whale. And apparently, like in Norwegian whales, the big marker is like I forget whether it's one ton or two ton. But it's so weird. Like to read old recipes for things that are horrific that you would never eat nowadays, but used to be out in you know, you ask yourself, What's it going to be like? 100 years are people going to look back and be like, ooh, hamburger? What? You know what I mean?

If you had a beach house and a whale washed up on shore, would you

eat it? Okay, that's illegal, would you eat it? And for those of you out there, everybody should know that it's a long standing proposition of mine that if my arm was severed, and there was no possibility of reattachment that I would of course cook it immediate because why would you not? Like I wouldn't do it. to somebody else's arm because that's gross. And I think invasive, you know, to them, wait, if it

was already off and you were starving you and do that.

He doesn't need to be starving, starving, it's off. What are you gonna do what you can

do? It's off it don't want to waste the arm.

Yeah. I mean, like, am I wrong on this?

But what if there's plenty of food available? No, that's

no I mean, like, like, why wouldn't you?

Why would you throw it away? Given the opportunity? I don't know.

Oh my god, well, okay, so this is this is a well known a well known way to operate. So in the same way that when you're testing whether something is poisonous or not, when you're testing something that you have a very finite quantity of it and you want to cook it, first thing to do is to research. And this is how this came up, because you're talking about whales research historical antecedents. This is something that people used to do, right. Notwithstanding some scholarship from the early 90s Saying that almost all cannibalism stories are overwrought, not true. I think that person was wrong. But you know, so this isn't a known thing. You know what I'm saying? So, look it up, first of all, and then small, small, small pieces to do some tests. You know, I'm saying fingers. No, like in terms of not in turn in terms of like, cooking ability?

I know. I know. But you'd have to, I

mean, obviously, I'd probably do emergent circulation. Now the problem is, is that being a 40? Being a 47 year old person, you know, my collagen is in such a state that the issue is connective tissue on older animals, if you've cooked older animals, like very old animals, like they, it's hard it to do the long, low temperature stuff is somewhat difficult because the muscle structure doesn't break down in the same way. So it tends to be tougher overall, even throughout the kind of cooking process. But I haven't done enough tests on super old animals for super long, super old animal compared to my life. I mean, I'm like, relative to the rest of humanity. Yeah. I mean, look, relative to back in the day, like, I'm ancient, you don't I mean, like, you know, when our average, you know, mortality age was in the 20s. Double fat. Yeah, this meat is spoiling. Yeah. So anyway, the point being, that, my feeling is that a lot of older animals are pretty fussy in the cooking, and that the low temperature stuff that you would do with a normal younger food animal would not necessarily work exactly the same way in an older animal that you might go from a situation where it goes from tough to being mushy with not a lot in between. So you might have to go through some as we in trade, call it mechanical tender. isation some sort of Jack Harding of the situation first, and then with your one remaining hand. You know, he Thanksgiving people. Happy Thanksgiving,

you wouldn't try to put on your body.

Why you wouldn't try to No, no, the conceit of the argument Anastasia, is is that it is gone. There is no chance no chance of reattachment, no chance of reattachment

Jakarta in

your honor. With the remaining hand. I mean, the thing is, what would you do? You wouldn't? Dave, you're saying you wouldn't?

If I was starving to death? Yes. I wouldn't do it just because it was laying around.

You would throw it away. I would just throw it in a dump.

Well, so it if I again, have no option to reattach it.

You just wasted you would throw it away.

Yeah. I mean, my first inclination wouldn't be to eat my own arm. Unless I was starving.

You would just throw it away.

I guess so. Yeah. Is that what you want me to say?

I don't know. I'm curious. I think everyone just says that I'm terrible and disgusting, or whatever. You know, I've been I've been likened to many, like, when I when I, when I push what I believe is logical to the farthest extent of what can be pushed. I am often referred to, you know, with very unkind comparisons. Let's put it this way. I was, but I mean, the you know, the thing is, is that's where you got to you got to push, push your belief all the way to the edge you see with me, you know, I hope that will never happen. I'm not looking to lose. I like having my arms.

But that's not the that's not the issue. It's just that if I didn't need to eat my arm to survive, why would I

want to know what it tastes like? But I know

the stasis a little bit with me here. I'm

a little bit I see that

I would be horrified to lose my arm. Of course, you'd be horrified to lose your I guess I could put it on ice. I put it on nice like a wedding cake. Like

one year later. Yeah. And then just like what happened to me? What if your cousin goes into your fridge and eats it? Yeah. Terrible. Happy Thanksgiving. So anyway, so back to Thanksgiving. As I said this year I'm doing the two turkeys. The two turkeys phenomenon and I'll report back but I don't anticipate in being a problem one thing if you're going to do a to Turkey situation and you break up the one turkey to cut into individual to cook individually in individual pieces. I'm doing it my second Turkey I'm doing I'm doing Chicken Fried Chicken fried turkey. So I'm Cutting the cutting the pieces into manageable sized pieces that people would want to eat as single singular pieces. Going to do a milk salt, sugar, I'm going to cook them milk, salt, sugar low, pull them out. When they're still hot, let the skin flash off. Then I'm going to do flour. Then I do a mixture of buttermilk. Eggs, so typically one egg, one large egg per cup of buttermilk with, you know, two I unfortunately don't measure any of this stuff bake baking soda to counteract the acidity and baking because if you don't counteract the acidity and buttermilk better people, this is a nice technical point for you. If you don't counteract the acidity in a buttermilk recipe, your crust will not get very brown, it'll stay blonde because the mired and the Browning reactions that happen in the crust are accelerated by basic and but they're also inhibited by acidic conditions. So if you've ever made pancakes a lot of times will happen when you're making a pancake with buttermilk, let's say is you'll add a combination of both baking soda and baking powder. Right the baking powder is the stuff that rises usually typically when it's heated, although double acting rises twice, and the soda makes bubbles right away. But the soda also counteracts the or neutralizes the acid, it's in the buttermilk. And if you don't add the soda and you just do baking powder into your buttermilk pit, you'll notice that all of your pancakes come out blonder than they would otherwise. And most people don't like their pancakes to have kind of a sallow tone. So it can be it can be somewhat problematic. So I mean, I don't think it'll affect the flavor necessarily that much. But a lot of people judge a fried good based on its color when it comes out of the fryer. And it is also a note that, you know, like unless you're doing tempura, which is supposed to be like horribly undercooked and blonde people like nice golden color anyway. So the other

program that we like is going to be on Zoom two.

Which one? It's a Wonderful Life. We never talked about that.

Every time. Really? Yeah. Are you like ding ding ding really? Yeah. Sweet. What? For real? Yeah. Yeah. As a caller was a cannibal related question.

All right, caller you're on the air.

Well, I had a real question, but I wanted to throw a cannibal. Cannibal angle. All right, when you got the answers that we've cooked are in it's Thanksgiving related to or when cooked or humans white or dark meat or a blend of both? Or are they just red meat? And all one color? But I'll throw that out there for thought. I don't know if that has an answer. But the real question I had relates to, potentially a cranberry sauce that I don't want to kill people with. I have some raspberries that forage in Maine in August that I forgot about the back of the fridge that seemed to have been living in the sort of free, more colder zone. Not exactly. Freezer zone at the rear of the fridge. They seem to have started fermenting. But they don't really taste on, like, alcoholic at this point. But they're not moldy either. And I'm just wondering if one if they're just partially frozen? Is that what's going on, too? Is there any good way to use these and there's some sort of cranberry sauce or some sort of funky flavor appropriate or should I just toss?

Alright, so the you've said some key things here, right? There's no mold on them. So that's good news. If they were moldy, I'd say get rid of them. Especially in a semi liquid environment like the any sort of toxins, mycotoxins produced by the mold can penetrate deeper than you can see, and especially in something where it's liquid like that, you know, liquid the, I would definitely not, I would definitely not chance it. I will. Now, I regularly when I and this is, by the way, a tip for you. If you know any spins, all people out there when I clarify juice is for an event. And I have stuff left over. I keep it in the fridge and let it ferment. And so typically, there's enough kind of wild stuff floating around. And typically, the acid level of most of these juices is high enough and you're not sealing away oxygen, so you're not going to get in a situation where you have something unsafe. You get some really nice kind of fermentations and they happen over a very long period of time, almost like lagering and in fact, you'll get like a bottom. Often you'll get like a bottom sediment of yeast at the bottom of it and they'll keep going and what I typically do so if it was sealed in a jar, you should notice some gas puffing open and it puffs out. That they taste pretty Good. Yeah, it's

in plastic. So it seems to have popped up. But there's enough, you know, popping up popping the lid off at some things to escape. But it seems to be having, you know, having some fresh tasting fermenting.

How's it taste?

It tastes funky. I haven't delved deep into it because I wasn't quite sure exactly whether it was it was safe or not, though. I was presuming it was say,

Yeah, I mean, I'm not a I mean, you know, fair warning here. I'm not a microbiologist, but I do this on a constant basis. And that's how I figured out that I really liked fermenting clarified orange juice until it's dry. So now I pitch I actually pitch yeast into clarified orange juice, to turn it full dry, because I love it. You know what I mean? As as kind of like a, you know, like a, it's, I don't know what you would call it because it's not a cider. It's not a beer. I don't know what the we call it like orange beer because it gets its bitterness back when you ferment out all the sugar, it gets its bitterness back, which is nice. In fact, I don't do a little bit of extra sugar.

So if I did a cooked preparation, like a cranberry sauce kind of thing was this. Am I gonna lose the interesting stuff by bringing you know by eating it? Or is it still gonna retain whatever funk it has?

Well, it'll lose some of the alcohol and the chase flavor will change as it heats, but it'll retain in the same way that when you cook with my beer is a bad example because it's got the hops in it as well, which interact strangely, but like when you cook with like, white wines, or ciders, or things like that, it'll I think it'll it'll maintain its flavor in the way that those will they'll add something to it. But obviously, it will also change so you're going to use this in lieu of are you fan by the way have you fan in your cranberry of adding orange? Because this could be an in you know, instead of like orange Do you like orange and your cranberry? Yeah, this does it? Yeah. Yeah. Some people hate it. They're purists they only use water. I also you know what, I add my cranberry that is not standard. Some people like some people don't. I had vanilla. I have a little bit of vanilla to it. It's good. I think it's good. I mean, no nut in my cranberry. I don't want any I don't want any nuts my cranberry. I'm also I'm also I leave the skins in person. You What about you call? Are you skins or no skins

are like the skins. But I mean, I I'm thinking that? Parenthetically no one has done a Has anyone done a hipster version of just the jelly, the jelly cranberry where it comes out of the can with all the can creations?

Like buy a can make your own cranberry and do it. But you said, Well, what I'm hearing you advocate is to make it straight through a jelly bag. And then and then set it in a can you have purchased for this purpose?

I don't think I will actually do that. I'm just that that that has not. I have not seen that come back to the forefront. Because that was my primary cranberry experience for about the first 15 years of my life.

Yeah, well do you do you watch The Simpsons? Yeah. Do you remember the episode when Bart was trying to help with thanksgiving and he's like, I want to help. I want to help. I want to help and then like, you know, pestering his mom to help. And then she finally and then she's like, do the cranberry sauce. And he's like, where's the cameras, cameras, cameras, cannabinoids, cannabinoids, cannabis. And but here's where they get it wrong. When he goes when he finally goes onto the plate, it collapses. But my memory of my memory of Yeah, canned cranberry sauce is a sucker stands up. Yeah.

It's basically a solid. Yeah.

I mean, I think that there's a place for that. I do like a solid cranberry sauce in disc format, Anastasia? No, no. But could it be done nicely? Do you? Do you like European pectin? Fruit candies, which are like that squared? Yeah, they do. Like you like, thoughtfully and all that crap. I love that stuff. I think so. Yeah. Someone could do like, almost like, yeah. Yeah, you could totally do it. I mean, I think it's a lot of extra work to go through seeing is how

I think I think I think I'll keep it simple. And then one last thing on this. Do you think something frozen just like a sorbet will also work? Are you going to is that going to, you know, again, you're going to just going to taste like regular fruit. If it goes down. I

know. It's like wine, sort of like wine sorbets, or like cider or beer sorbets. They retain some of the characteristics that they had. I mean, I've never done it with with whole fruit before, right. But I mean, I just serve the stuff like I like a couple of weeks ago, I served like a five month old, fermented strawberry juice. That was just really good. You know what I mean? Like when I was originally, maybe more than five months old, really good. People really like it. It depends on how dry it is. Remember, if you're making,

it's not that show that's but it's when you're fermenting, you're short of making, making it to the strength of wine, you drink it when it's in between.

Yeah, they can drink it whenever you want. I mean, like the real question is is is how much residual sugar is left right? And so certain fruits as they ferment out there residual sugar, they are way too acidic, right. And so those typically need to be augmented, or you need to do something with them. But other, you know, other fruits kind of almost get better as a drink as their sugars ferment out. And this is one of my classic gripes with people when they start first making apple cider is is they taste their they taste their apples, and they're like, oh, this apple is balanced. And then you know, when they ferment it out, it loses its balance, because obviously the acid pops way the hell up was an elephant. What wasn't? That was our fearless leader Patrick Martin is calling me in the middle of our radio show, even though he apparently should know that we're mean like,

we've only as he has no regard for decorum weakens theory, we've only had this

time slot for what, five years, six years, something like that. So it's like, anyway. So anyway, so those are my those are my suggestions. The other thing you could do, you could make a juice out of it, and then it's a little late to make it, you could mash it and then and then clarify it later, it'll eventually settle out if you mash it. I don't know how much of it you have. But I would I would test a little bit Chris cook a little bit just do like a, like a microwave test on a couple of them to heat them up. So you can do it, you know, in a finite amount, cover it with, you know, almost like steam it right. So like, you know, cover it so it doesn't get desiccated, microwave some of it and then taste and see whether you like the flavor, I think you'll probably like it. I mean, I've never had one that I didn't think was at least had some merit.

Okay, I'll let you know how it goes. That's helpful.

All right, cool. Thanks.

All right. Happy Thanksgiving.

You too. Oh, and back to the original question thrown in about cannibalism. Well known, well known fact that human beings are referred to as long pigs. So my guess is that we're closest to pork. And if you're a fan of Patrick Martin's heritage pigs, you know that the heritage pigs are not necessarily quite meat, you know what I mean? Anyway. But I don't know if all you know, obviously, we have different different muscle groups that do different things. So I would bet that there is a difference in minutes, we should stop talking about snapshots. Took another call. Sure. Caller you're on the air.

Is, I was wondering your thoughts on Thanksgiving turkey. I'm gonna be doing low tempered this year. So I'm not gonna have traditional pan drippings. But I do have of course, the carcass, I can make stock. I can roast it. I could, you know, use the monitor stuff like lecithin. xanthan gum, I've got one Dre, what do you do at your house? And what are your thoughts on Thanksgiving turkey generally.

Okay, so what I do, typically, is, when you have the carcass, I'll rip out the carcass, I'll sometimes supplement it with some parts for gravy to get kind of more more meat on it, the I roast it and then I make a stock. And so if you have a pressure cooker, I'll typically make sometimes a double stock. Sometimes I'll start with a chicken like a light chicken base, and then Turkey it just to make it even more so but I don't always it depends on kind of kind of what mood I'm in. Then once you have that, that base stock, you can you can really get like a nice, nice gravy even in the because remember, when you're roasting off the carcass, if you roast off the giblets and all the other stuff, you can get a lot of the same stuff that you would get if you had your normal pan drippings, right. So you can get like a lot of that same effect as long as you don't lose the liquids that are in the bottom of your roasting pan as long as you de glaze the bottom of your roasting pan and dumped that end when you get the stock and then when you pressure cook it that those flavors get even browner. So I think that, you know, a lot of people's love of pan drippings is that obviously, you know, there's not there's nothing that tastes kind of like, you know, that little piece of skin that goes down and then glues itself to that freaking carrot in the pan and gets all brown and crusty and coated with Turkey fat, and you pick it up and you eat it. I mean, that's delicious, as long as you salted as long as you salt it, but the you know, I think you get a lot of that same effect just by using the carcass. And in fact, like the peace of mind I get by making my stock well in advance and having it basically gravy ready and not having to worry about it when you're pulling your bird out is a huge benefit to me. Huge, huge benefit to me. But now going back to the thickening I never use Xanthan in it except So, Xanthan you should only ever think of xanthan in these kinds of situations as like the fine focus knob on a camera, right? You want to get your you want to get your course focus with kind of standard thickener. So whether you're, you know whether you're a wonderful person, you know, I've like what I typically do that in You know, is I tend to use regular flour, I intend to use regular flour. And so you know, sometimes I'll do a roux if I'm you know, and then if I, if I'm too late to do a rule or I've really messed up, I'll just take a couple of cups. You shouldn't do this very bad idea. But I'll do, I'll do a couple of cups. And then I'll just vitae prep the hell out of it, it'll knock all the the lumps back out, and then I'll dump the vital prep stuff back into the, into the pot. And then you know, you never get any lumps that way. But that's really cheating. Like, obviously, I'm supposed to tell you the science behind it whereby you're like Will, starch will tend to clump, if you put it into hot liquid. So you spoon make a slurry of it in cold liquid and then stir quickly the cold liquid slurry into your hot liquid, so that, you know, disperses before it hydrates, that's what I'm supposed to tell you. But in the real life, you're like, Oh God, I don't know. Let me just like throw something into the Vita prep them and then dump it back in and everything's copacetic at the now some people believe and I don't really know where I am on this the oldest coffee a thing whereby flour, you know, in a base to thicken should either be cooked almost not at all just to the boil or for like 20 or 30 minutes. And then anything in between gives a kind of a flowery taste. I don't really know if that's the case. But there's there at the end, you know, some people, if you need to thicken up at the end, that's when people usually get like their Burma knee, right. So though mash, some I don't. The thing is I don't know anyone that uses burn money that doesn't just have it in the fridge. I don't know anyone that doesn't that has it in the fridge unless they're professional, right. But burn money is a really good way to thicken stuff up at the end. But remember, it also adds fat and sometimes can leave like a sheen on the top top of what you're doing now. On whether you're going to use at the end the fine focus, right, if if you have the flavor of your stuff, correct. And you're worried that adding a little more like starch in the form of flour or whatever, if you're afraid that that is going to kill the taste or mute that flavor too much, right? That's when you can add a little bit of xanthan but you never want to add more than about, you know a gram per liter of or two grams per liter. So that's like you know, less than a quarter well under a quarter of a percent. And you only want it to kind of move because you don't want your gravy as it cools off gets kind of jiggly enough. So you don't want it to kind of look all like jiggly and jelly that's kind of unpleasant, although my gravy is actually when they cool. We'll set hard like a gel because I use very thick stocks, like the stocks that I use as my gravy base gel pretty freaking hard. So my typically, like I have very, very strong stocks for my gravy. So they'll get almost like they'll get real hard when they get when they get super cold. But Xanthan, you know, it can be problematic that way so just don't use too much of it. But to use it like I say is a fine focus. And other thing is this. Corn Starch is unpleasant I think as the sole thickener in a gravy it just doesn't look right. You know what I mean? It looks like corn starch sauce. However, you can add some corn starch to a sauce at the end to increase its thickening without compromising. As long as you know your initial base was flour it will add that extra thickening and doesn't need to be cooked off the way flour does because it's a pure starch, you get what I'm saying. Another Another thing is if you're doing southwest flavors Maseca masa harina is interesting thickener that tends to disperse rather easily and thickens it but it doesn't fully dissolve you'll sometimes see some little particles and adds a definite masa flavor to your product. But you know I'll use I'll use a little bit of masa sometimes in flour in I don't use it in tortillas because you know I don't but I sometimes use it in pancakes and I sometimes use it in sauces. Or sometimes if you're making if you're making a pressure cooked gravy, I sorry, pressure cooker chili, so you know too good to because gravy and you know the sauce and gravy. When you're pressure cooking a sauce like that they tend to be too thin because it's hard to get the full kind of chilly texture in a pressure cooker because if you if you set your bass that way it might scorching your pressure cooker. And so typically when you're doing those kinds of pressure cook things, you'll extract the meat and whatever else and then you'll thicken and or reduce the liquids and put them back together again, or sometimes I'll just toss in a pinch of masa, masa harina in that but that's only if you're going on more of a southwestern gravy, which I never do for Thanksgiving. But anyway, I digress. So that's that's kind of where I would go with it.

Okay, awesome. When you do your roof do you do like a butter ru or like use like pure Turkey fat? Like what kind of heavy stuff that

I've done both. I mean in general I have like a lot of you know on Thanksgiving. I have a lot of time rookie fat kind of sitting around and so I will I will use it. I honestly don't think there's that much of a difference. You know, I just I don't like in the grand scheme of things I just don't I never consider it. You know, it's kind of whatever is at hand at the moment Me because also, you know, whenever I'm shopping for Thanksgiving the first thing on the list is like infinite pounds of butter, like infinite pounds of butter because you got mashed potatoes. You got your stuffing the whole requires butter. You know, if you're doing a roasted turkey, I'll base the hell out of that. That's butter. So it's like, you know, it's like, you know, if you make biscuits are Parker house rolls, butter, butter butter, you know, I mean, so it's like butter butter everywhere, you know, so I usually have a lot of it lying around, but Turkey fat also good. Alright, great. Thank you. All right, and I also don't care too much on how dark my roux is. Because often, you know, like, I like I say my my sauce is significantly brown already. So anyway,