Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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This week on meat and three were ringing in the start of our fifth season with dispatches from Portland Oregon biggest food festival feast Portland, we're bringing you words of wisdom on launching a food business from food blogs.

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Hello and welcome to cooking issues this is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from I don't know actually pretty damn close this time I was here at noon. Yeah, we didn't start at noon but I was here at noon so we're getting better and better people from rivers pizzeria in Bushwick. Plan join as usual Anastasia hammer Lopez, how you doing associate You doing alright. Got Matthew in the booth. How you doing? Feeling great. So the Stasi is not wearing headphones this week. We could talk more about like last week's conversation about zero might term zero tasking because we had someone write in who is a supporter of Anastasia initially a supporter of me supporting MS DOS if we have time later in the show, but I doubt we will because we've got an insane number of people with very interesting and different skills here at the program today. So I'm just gonna go through who we have, pick up your phones calling your questions to 718-497-2128 that same 184972128 First of all we have longtime friend I haven't been a guest as often as I'd like Harold McGee, the Grand Master of Sciences that relates to the practice of delicious things in the kitchen. Sitting next to Harold, we have Ed Cornell the maestro of milk culture in DC fabulous ice cream joint which I have not visited live but you have some of the ice cream are you doing? Yeah. Then To my immediate right we have Ariel Johnson, the Chief Science Officer of good eats. What are you a professor at MIT? What the hell are you?

No, I'm I'm a independent scholar. Do Who independent scholar I was a was a fellow at MIT for a while.

So and you know, the Noma fermentation This is what the volatile characteristics of bitters, you know, in boozes, as they're put through the GCMS with a sniffing thing, I mean, it's whatever you want to know about that kind of crappy areas.

I tried to know all the things that you can know about flavor and chemistry and cookie

data. Hey, you know why it's too bad that you guys agree so often, because since Harold is just finishing his Harold is just finishing a book on a similar subject, like a cage match would have been awesome. But I've never seen you guys.

They, I mean, it would be I guess, like good press fodder. Or someone could be like the dueling books about flavor, but but then you have to, I'm amazed by it. And I wish I had my parents. I haven't written something. It's good.

Yeah. Anastasia and I once met the is the guy who wrote Dueling Banjos. Wow. And he remember we met him Brigman remember Sophie's Sophie's dad. He, among other things, wrote Dueling Banjos. And now I'm imagining you know, between Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Well, you guys are like fighting it out. Bing Bing Bing Bing Bing Bing bing bing. I mean, like, as I said many times like he's done many things. He's one of those EGOT weasels.

Oh, the Emmy Grammy Oscar.

Yeah, and most of those are like huge cheats. They're just cheating. They're like, because like they write some freaking song that wins a Tony because it's in a freaking play. Then that play is made into a freakin movie and then they win an Oscar and they win a Grammy for the same song. I mean, Papa Papa, and then if they put that sucker on TV, there's the Emmy. I mean, you did one freakin thing and you get four freaky become an EGOT ridiculous like people who do it in all different things like I believe he one one in all different thing for different works.

That is actually impressive.

Yeah, but you might have to take that back if they make Hustle and Flow with musical and that way triple six mafia can be on their way to when he got

Oh, is that what they what they what they when they're what movie? Was it that they won the Oscar for the best songs?

And musicals and?

Well, I mean,

honestly, you have to do a television broadcast of the musical to also win the Emmy. I mean, my like the Jesus Christ Superstar live.

I did not Anastasia is an enjoyer a consumer of live television. I am not, but she wanted me to watch her forget why I didn't because I'm constantly singing small riffs from Jesus Christ Superstar. Right and Stassi

apparently, uh oh, no, I can't remember there's a classical composer. That's like a big fan of Jesus Christ Superstar.

As we all know from someone that Stasi met many years ago, you cannot trust the musical tastes of classical music. Even virtuosos have bad taste in pop music. Right and, and lastly, but certainly not leastly we have David Karp the fruit now you go fruit detective.

I'm a scientist specializing in fruit journalist and grower

now we mentioned you on last week's program for those people who tuned in because we met you in Los Angeles at the Houdini party and at the Santa Monica farmers market and we talked about bar he grapes lat sorry bar he dates last week. And I also mentioned something I thought was interesting is that you are the rare lover of both temperate and tropical fruits. You never see that.

I think there are a lot of people that love mangoes and apples at least certainly at the Santa Monica farmers market where I sell and right from there a lot of people who who like both Oh yeah, the meat tastes very I would not. I wouldn't say that. That's necessarily the case. I people who love like cheese and love grapes.

I don't know man. All I'm saying is is that whenever I go to visit, like Okay, so here are the places I visited. I visited that one. inbetweeners are like the citrus people and you hang out the citrus people because you've done a lot of work with the citrus people trying to oh, by the way, before we start, I'll finish this and then we'll start so it's like, when I visited Geneva, they didn't care about fruit fill for slime maybe a little bit that's where we keep that's the Noah's Ark of apples in the United States. When I visited the brogdale which is the difference Noah's Ark of apples in England in Kent Anastasia and I visited once Harold I visited was didn't care anything about the fruit. The theories vigor of the trees was important but not the fruit they didn't care about it and neither did they care about tropical fruit. Ditto most I mean like it whenever I deal with especially apple pear and small fruit people, they are just grooving on the frequent plants. And you yourself told me yesterday, David that that the freakin Noah's Ark of small fruits in the United States and Korva All is in Oregon, right? Which should be the very freakin pinnacle of temporary fruit pomology in terms of deliciousness, they don't even grow them so they fruit they put them in a greenhouse. They don't even they don't even fruit to keep them in little pots. It's the most pathetic thing I heard. I almost cried yesterday when you told me this.

Well, those are just the strawberries that I was talking about. They do have pear trees met their trees.

How do you stop a pear from fruiting?

I mean, that's the thing. I mean, their trees are outside and they do fruit. The strawberries are grown indoors and they

don't do most of those people groove on the pears. Are they sitting there? They do very

much. So yeah, there they are real kind of soars after a fashion. You gotta get to know them.

And you visit a tropical fruit place, and they go completely bonkers for the fruit. They're all about the fruit. You know, what's his name? Campbell at the Fairchild fruit all day guide is talks about fruit. I didn't hear him say one thing about a tree, not one. I didn't hear him say anything about leaves that he was like this fruit best. All he cared about was fruit. I think the trees are secondary to him. This is my kind of mental breakdown of like the maybe only a dozen or so you're the only person I know. I've met who cares about like kind of the whole, like the kind of broad spectrum of fruits in a deep way. How about that?

Well, there's a reason for that there are wine writers who care about a broad range of wine. But there are very few people who have written about fruit professionally for their career, like really just need for the general public in interpreting it. Why is that? There are no ads or when there were ads and newspaper food sections. There were very rarely that many ads, specifically from farmers or from from producers. And I guess the editors figured there was no reason why people would want to know about fruits and nobody specialized in it. And not

not enough fruit service journalism.

After you have to write a racy fruit stone fruit novel like the orchid seIf of fruit.

It's been done. And right here as you would expect in Brooklyn. Track down the lemon about a man's obsession with that very fruit.

Why would someone write a book about growing lemons from Brooklyn? Is it just like the unattainable? I mean, this is not

like to let a man who fell in love with a lemon and not in a platonic sense.

I've seen some racing lemons in my time. Remember that lemon? We found a stessa. Real racy that you did. Yeah. I've seen I've seen little boy lemons and little girl lemons. I've seen all of racing. This is of lemons. But what so? What size is this lemon? Is this a Kafka esque kind of a situation? Or is it a normal sized or like relatively large Eureka lemon?

I think it's a normal size lemon?

Yeah, yeah. Well here from California, what's a normal sized lemon to you? Like, show me your hands?

Oh, it's there. They range from this size, to like this size. But when you get that big, if you're a farmer, you're losing money because the market doesn't want something that's so freakin huge. That's like the size of a small football. Lots of wine, something that's like the size of, I don't know, a large plum to a small navel orange. And,

and by the way, anyone listening right now who wants to go on in the chat room. David is looking for a good old fashioned Citron market. I said that my old neighborhood in the lower Eastside used to be around sicko time used to be like Citron Central, like there would literally be tables set out on the street with all the various wares and various different kinds of qualities and prices of unblemished nests. But no longer my neighborhood is now merely a shell of its former orthodox self. And so you'd have to like go somewhere so someone can give us a good location before the show's over. I'd appreciate it. Now, one thing I'm going to have to do before I go into general questions. My, the people who listen to this podcast are the kind of people that are going to smuggle seeds, fruit spices into this country, illegally, because that's just the kind of people that listen, so give them your pitch for how detrimental that can be.

Don't do it. That is responsible for billions of dollars worth of damage a year and an increased load of pesticides on our environment as farmers deal with invasive introduced pests and diseases, that it's not just a threat to the farmers. It's a threat to anybody that eats. I guess that's everybody right? And who produces farmers produce grain fruits vegetables. epidemiologist tells me that it's increasingly looking like every possible disease from around the world that could exist and a given growing area in the United States soon will exist, which is the ultimate nightmare for farmers and for anybody that wants to eat, good, clean, reasonably priced food. Why? Because it's a huge economic burden. It's a huge medical burden on The population of the United States that have to spray to have to spend time and money, exterminating pests that were brought in just so casually. Because somebody thinks that, oh, I won't hurt anybody, you can't necessarily see that tiny little bug that little might, that might be the vector of a deadly disease that you don't even know about. Don't do it. And if not, for that reason, because if you get caught doing it, people do get put in jail and fined big time.

So, one of those things grinning isn't it is an important disease, right? Or no? Yes. It's a

citrus, a bacterial disease affecting citrus that's been responsible for the devastation of the citrus crop in Florida off 75% In the last 15 years, shouldn't they

have picked a scarier name? I mean, greening sounds like one

long being yellow dragon diseases. Is that scary enough? Yeah, baby.

Yeah. Now I don't want it give me that one. Again.

One long being HLB for short.

I hate that. I don't want any of that and my citrus. Now that but does it actually kill the tree? Or is it just reduced the marketability of the fruit? Both?

It certainly does kill the tree.

Alright. Alright. So should we answer some questions distance? Yeah. Any any any questions for our for our panel? That?

Not? As of Yes. Nor do you have a marker recommendation?

People you're disappointing me. Okay. Alex Cole writes in he's a he's an MD candidate at at the UN Miller School of Medicine. He'd like you to know. Horse conch. You guys ever eat horse cock? Are you familiar with conch? Yes. All right. You ever you lived in the Northeast for a while Harold, you ever in your in Massachusetts? In fact, do you ever go out there to the Cape and forage for whelks? No, I did have many, many times. So this is just a much bigger variety. What about you and you will will end on conch person.

Um, I'll eat them but I haven't had the pleasure of foraging for them.

Don't you don't strike me because if you don't like scallops, you're not going to you know I got a comp person and stuff where you add conks No, no one counts. Good word though right talk anyway. So when you say conch, there are a wide variety of actually not even the same, not just this not the same species, not the same genus of gastropubs pod, you know, foot stomach things that go around. Now, what you are asked, should be the question first, thanks for your time and effort in producing my favorite podcast. Thanks for listening. Glad somebody does. You have a great sense of humor and unique knowledge. It's my first time writing and a few questions. I've caught and cleaned some giant horse cocked the bright orange type from Key Biscayne, Florida. I was wondering if you think this is safe to eat? Yes. How can I determine what is safe to catch and eat as I explore the waters in Miami? Do you have any cooking recommendations for this conch, I'm an enthusiastic home cook with access to basic a basic kitchen grill smoker, immersion circulator D high this dehydrator, and a pressure cooker. Alright, so first of all, before I go any further, the best kind of and safest ie conservative reference that you can get is it's on the internet's fish and fishery products hazards and control guidance, fourth edition August 2019, from the fda.gov. And if you search Horse, horse, horse conquer, conquer in general, they list like two to two geniuses of conquer IDs that are eaten and kind of what what might be wrong with them. So the biggest problem that you're going to get from one which you're not going to get where you come from, is Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning. But that's you would know if the water that you went in and harvested, you're caught from because you're harvesting them if there was a high concentration of that stuff in the water. So it's not going to be a problem. I was not able to find any, like parasites even though the horse conch unlike the queen conch, which is like the one that's being overfished right now and like is, you know, it's problematic because of overharvesting, but delicious and people love it even that one is an herbivore from my research and the one you eat eats animals its current carnivorous thing but even so, I wasn't able to find like anisakis worm references or anything I wasn't able to find any sort of parasite reference to it whatsoever. So usually in something like that, either it's going to straight out poison you Right? Or it's going to have some sort of a parasite now parasites are usually frozen out now I looked at I looked at a couple people's preparation for it, including Miss Florida, Miss Florida 2014, or something like that. She has a blog on cooking things including cluding cock, a horse cock, and she did what she does, which doesn't strike me I mean, I get why she's doing it right. If she puts the whole damn thing in a plastic bag in the freezer, right? And then for like, two three days now this to me There's two things you're doing here. You're killing it, like, you know, like the Modernist Cuisine folks do with their oysters, killing it, and then freezing it through freezing it through is going to be an anti parasitic treatment, right? Because that's the anti parasitic treatment par excellence, you know, for pork and whatnot. And she keeps it in the bag and thaws it in like water in the sink, but because the comp is so big gulf coast USA, so you're not even Florida. Listen, the golf course the Gulf Coast is more than just Florida. There's more than just Florida in the Gulf Coast. So like that includes what Louisiana? Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi,

Texas, part of Texas,

so I mean, what's more impressive, Miss Florida or miss Gulf Coast? If you were impressed by such things? What would be more impressive? I think okay, so. So anyways, so then she thaws it for like, hours and hours, because it's so damn big. And then of course, it pops out because it's dead. Oh, she has a nifty trick though, which I think you could use no matter what. She drills a hole in, like in the top section, the third spiral up, because that's the air section where that thing is, and she's and she says her words. And apparently everyone else is on the internet because I did Google it. Right? I released the suction. So you can get the conch out in one piece. Then you you clean off all of the gut, you know, the kind of slimy gut parts. You cut off the the is it still called an operculum on that thing, Harold? I think so. Yeah. And the tough foot part then you you skin it like you would a freaking gooey duck. Right. And then you got the nice meat which you slice thin and then apparently everyone serves the VGA style and salad for conch salad. That's like that's the thing. I have seen other people where they do the light boil like I would do for a gooey duck a very light kill boil. That will also loosen the skin and make it easier to peel. That's what I do on the gooey duck. Maybe I'm just a weasel. I don't know. And then I saw this other guy who's like, yeah, just break the show with the back of a cleaver. He like covers it with a towel and he like he hits it, he hits he goes, what I'm doing is I'm going around the hemisphere of the top going crack like you can see this guy on the internet quack quack quack I was like breaking it and it gets it apart. Then he like twist the unfrozen which I think is going to be better in this case, although freezing will tend to rise caucus caucus a tough meat and freezing it and actually will tenderize it. And the best way to tenderize something through freeze thawing is to create large crystals. And the best way to create large crystals is to freeze slowly and thaw slowly. However, you'll get a lot of what is called in the trade drip loss. And I also don't know how many kinds of it as long as it stays around zero. I'm a little worried about how long it takes to freeze. I don't think it's gonna lose freshness. It just seems a weak way to do it. You're gonna get a lot of drip loss, but maybe it's the best extra wise, because the people who cook it, or part cook it. They beat the EverLiving piss out of it to tenderize it before they serve it. Right. And Miss Gulf Coast 19 Or Miss Gulf Coast 2014 I don't think she was pounding on that stuff before she made the salad. Now. Yeah, she's a skilled skilled at drilling it, I thought anyway. So the question for you then is you can go traditional Caribbean style. Remember, it's a different card from the Queen clock at Cancun. I don't know when it's gonna taste sweeter or less sweet. Make sure you clean off all the goop when I eat whelks in, in. In Cape Cod. I eat the whole damn thing. I just boil them, rip them out, grab the operculum shove the whole maybe peel a little bit of the stuff off. And they can have a little bit of that. Yeah, that grew up at the bottom of the ocean case you don't know say. Whereas I think if you go through the trouble of cleaning it all. It should be a relatively clean taste. But I don't know how sweet a horse conch is versus a queen conch. I've had what you buy when you buy conch at a restaurant is queen conch, typically, right? But and this is again a different genus and has a different diet. So I don't know maybe eating snails and crabs makes it taste better. I mean, I've I don't know. I like snails and crabs more than I like. That's not true. I like a lot of seaweed. I really do. I mean, whatever. Was that okay, answer his second question. Similarly, I can catchy Guana and invasive species in Miami, but I haven't found much more than a few basic rep recipes, or advice on catching an eating them with a cursory web search. Any tips on determining if it's safe to eat? Yes, they just safety however, iguanas, this is a crap paper. I'm going to read a review the thing any tips on cooking them I've never cooked one but I can still talk about it even with no knowledge. That's what I'm here to do. I have successfully caught and cooked a few fish and lobster from the area so I'm hoping I can develop a number of recipes with ingredients only from foraging and fishing to have an authentic South Florida dinner for myself and classmates. October 19. Okay. The issue with iguanas and reptiles in general Are that's going to be parasites, right that's the issue is gonna be parasites. So here is a garbage paper, the biological risks of eating reptiles February 10 2010. The source is Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology summary. Reptiles are bred in captivity primarily for their skins, but some restaurants and population groups also want them for their meat. A study shows that eating these animals can have side effects that call into question the wisdom of eating this delicacy. And then they mentioned all things that are fixed by normal cooking procedures or freezing for parasite procedure. All normal stuff they're like may contain truth and Gnosis so may pork you know what I mean? Like no, no, not anymore, but you know what I mean? And then a list of things that ain't nobody ever heard of, but will be killed by cooking for instance, I'm going to see if any of you know any of these Penta Samaya says nope, you know, guess what? You're not going to get it especially if you cook this stuff. This one i i appreciate Natha Samaya says like with GN like gnashing of teeth. You don't want it but you're not going to get it sparger Gnosis No, and these are all theoretical. These are theoretical things. They also reptiles have mites on their skin and ticks

that they didn't like get some samples of reptile meat and then culture up at

us. Not to the best of my not to the best of my thing. The clearest microbiological risk comes from the possible presence of pathogenic bacteria especially salmonella, Shigella and E. Coli. And you're seeing it okay, like all the other food we eat. It's like people are such jokers. Like how can anyone in their right mind make this as a recommendation? No, you better hold off it's got all the same hazards as all the other meat

that you eat so it's not gonna be sushi graded. So just saying well,

no because of the salmonella however all the rest of stuff you can freeze kill like all the pathogens you can you could freeze kill them. Yeah, yeah. So I was mad about that. And then I read a lot about it. I seen some people they hold spit roast the iguana. Apparently Iguana is a little bit of a pain in the butt to skin until it's been cooked. Right. And a lot of the there are a whole spit roasted iguanas that people eat. I just don't think that's going to be my jam. I mean, I like whole spit roasted coffee, you know, the guinea pigs. But hold real estate Guan. I just don't know that there's going to be enough meat there. I'm also not a frog leg guy just because of the quantity of meat to bone ratio. I mean, I don't mind bones. And I like the taste of frogs legs. But when someone says you're gonna have frogs, so I'm not like, oh, yeah, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay. You don't say see a difference? Yeah. Anyway, what do you do any of you guys use frog legs? People? Yeah. Fried Friday, but like still do you like all those bonds?

Use don't use them if they're fried enough.

Okay, but would you seek them out? No. Harold

depends on how much meat they have on them. I mean, some some are really nice. And yeah, they've exercised a lot or something. But others are really scrawny. And they're not worth it.

You lived in France. Did they actually eat Frog? Frog Legs? To a large degree where you were?

No, no, we I was in Duck country. Much better.

Oh, speaking of later, we're going to get to this. There's a place called the Cajun kitchen that is selling alligator meat on the internet. And it says alligator loins five pounds and put up a picture of a duck breast. I'm not stupid. I know what a duck breasts looks like. And sure shoot and I'd rather have a duck breast and an alligator tail. But because duck breasts is like, I mean, come on duck breast. It's it's up there above many meats. Okay, any other any frog's legs ideas over here on this side of the

I mean, just some things you have to prepare yourself for like doing some manual labor?

No. Yeah. You know, other thing about frog's legs that I don't enjoy is just the inefficiency of use to whole animal ratio. You know what I mean? To me, it's almost it's not as bad as shark fin. But it's like pretty close. You know what I mean? They you cut the leg off the two legs, and then you throw the rest of the body away. I've seen it like time and time again, when people are selling frog's legs. Just cut the legs off. Throw the body away. Like still living body. It's just like, I just, I mean, and you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, like, Look, if you lived in like a Leakey swampy area, and you want to go out at night with your little frog fork and go frog in, you know what I mean? Because you're going to eat it the next day and your place is overrun with frogs anyway, you're sure I get it. You know what I mean? But like the practice of raising these relatively large animals, specifically just to throw away the greatest mass of their body into a trash can full of like things going bad that with no legs on it, just don't get it I really don't. Anyway, back to iguanas. So the problem with iguanas aside from the relative bonus, apparently they they can taste very bad or not. So there was a, there was a lady also from Florida, who won some sort of contest for making a Guana carnitas. And she, I think, just saw through this stuff in a slow cooker, and then picked it apart. And then and then did it and serve it. She didn't even taste it, which is I don't even know why they wrote the article about this person. She didn't taste it, her 11 year old tasted, but she said something very interesting. She said the smell was terrible. And that she wouldn't cook it again, because it smelled up her kitchen. And a lot of the traditional recipes that I looked at, perform a traditional technique for many gamebirds going all the way back to Roman times and before and that is a quick boil in water before the roast. And so I'm guessing that there might be some, let's say off putting stuff in the skin or areas around there. So I would say do the old school which is a relatively quick boil, throw that water away, skin it after it's been parboiled, then shred it up fry the meat. And I've seen people eat it that way on the internet. So they were happy. And what do you think? What do you think about those old Roman techniques parboiling in a PCS, the recipes look terrible, because it looks like they're just boiling the piss out of everything. And then overcooking the hell out of it. And I ran some tests. If you're dealing with like gamey or meats, I can see it even like, you know, a lot of modern kind of hunting, cooking manuals have the kind of pre poach out and a lot of people who are doing bone stocks now do like the low bring up skim to get rid of that initial kind of,

yeah, I mean, it's sort of like a more assertive pre soak, like brains or sweetbreads. Usually you still he brings. Um, I have mean like, I don't like seek out cow's brains, but we were doing like we really like doing stuff with lambs brains in Copenhagen

and any brains anymore. It's just too much is gonna go wrong. It's just a matter of time. Like, like, it's just a matter of time before we before we all go kind of scrapey Mad Cow like some sort of Yeah, Jakob Crutchfield variant, some sort of wasting disease. You know what I mean? Like, it's really just a matter of time for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But they're so creamy.

I mean, yeah. I mean, I like braids. You know, I just don't, I don't use them anymore. I still eat marrow. And I guess that probably also has similar issues in marrows. Good. Right. If you Harold, if someone said to you, you have to give up either marrow or brains. What would you give up?

Give up marrow. Whoa. Because marrow is it just doesn't have the delicacy the range of flavors, the marrow can so easily just kind of fall apart into fat. Yeah, yeah. So

that dinner giving up all stocks and all related mero mero related products.

Oh, that's a different. That's a different story.

But okay, so then let's have this discussion. How much Edwards marrow being primarily a fat vase, that base vehicle, how much do you think the stock is actually benefiting from the marrow itself? And how much is it just that the marrow happens to be there?

No, I think I think its contribution is probably pretty minimal. But if giving up marrow meant having to give up anything cooked with bones like stocks, then then I wouldn't make that trade.

I see. I see. I see. What about you guys? You guys are brain aficionados over here. Well, you already said you like him.

I like him. I just don't eat them that often. Yeah, I definitely eat marrow more often than it burns.

Do you know what? Like marrow on toast? I mean, marrow on toast? Like crusty toast marrow? Yeah, real good. That that preparation alone better than any brand preparation I've ever had you what? What do you how do you like your brains with eggs?

No, let me just, you know, slowly roasted and brown butter with toast or something on the side. I

mean, the toast is good. Everyone like I mean, like some people can't have toast. I don't know anyone that doesn't like it. You know? Yeah. I told you. I didn't I tell you. When I was in Iceland a couple of weeks ago, they served me the splits lambs head without the brain and they pre removed the brain. Yeah, they didn't leave it up to me to make that choice. And I have to say, although theoretically, I'm angry at them for it. Secretly I'm happy because I didn't then have to not eat something right Okay, so Oh, I didn't finish. Oh, I didn't finish the question. Right.

We have a question from the chat. All right, chat. We got our Li 32 asks, Any thoughts on using preoperative liquid chromatography for flavor isolation? Any chefs doing this?

Aereo? Um, yeah. I don't know of any chefs doing this. I mean, it's possible that like the cooking lab in Bellevue has one. Yeah, I mean, definitely, it's something I've thought about a lot and been interested in trying like the big roadblock would be solvents. Most of the solvents that are really good for doing liquid chromatography are super nasty. So I would avoid getting anywhere near like, hexane or a pseudo trial. If you're a chef in the kitchen, unless you have a lot of knowledge about how to remove it well,

so pot smokers often do extraction with very toxic things, and then have you consume them? Is it just because they're doing something illegal anyway? And they assume it's unhealthy? Or like what do you what are your thoughts? I

don't know. I mean, now with with like legal cannabis in so many states, there are a lot of state level regulations about removing and testing for solvents, I believe. So like, you know, your buddy down the block. Maybe he has some method for like removing all the hexane, but certainly, if you go to like Colorado or Massachusetts, they are going or they should be removing and testing for these things.

I wanted to I wanted to do like solvent, because I can't like if the supercritical is become reasonably priced? Yeah, can I get a supercritical co2 extracted for that won't blow up and kill my crew to buy.

So I know, definitely, people are getting more into supercritical extraction, which is a totally different process clean, like what I was gonna do butane. Yeah. So with liquid chromatography, you have basically tiny, tiny, tiny beads that are like sticky to organic molecules. And you like load a column of these with like your plant material, and you push organic solvent through and all the different flavor and other molecules stick to the solids at different rates and come out in a separated way. Whereas supercritical extraction, you use carbon dioxide under like, extreme pressure. So that actually acts as a like semi liquid semi gaseous solvent, and you can tune the polarity of it based on like, the pressure and the temperature, right.

I mean, I don't think the chromatography I mean, just first blush, I think it's gonna work. The yield is gonna Yeah, the yield is going to be way too low. Right. But if you're talking about stuff that has bad solvents, I mean, first of all, you're

gonna I mean, for like liquid chromatography, you have to use like, a huge amount of solvent to get a separation. Right? Yeah. Because the stuff you're trying to get off moves at a fraction of the rate of the stuff you're pouring on. So you'd be using, like leaders and leaders of leaders to get tiny, tiny amounts, maybe only need tiny amounts, if you're just trying to get like, you know, natural eugenol from close

by that crap. I mean, this

is the thing, if you're talking about chromatographic separations, most of the stuff you could buy from a flavor house is isolated that way. So like if you're talking about getting molecules, you know, a methyl charcoal from basil from Furman, each is not going to be a different molecule than the one that you would get by doing that chromatography yourself. Right? So just for like bragging points,

yes, nobody's like, that's why I hooked more on the idea of solvents, because solvents is something that I've wanted to use and don't because of the kind of, you're using solvents

well, and even I mean, like the flavor and fragrance industry is moving as much as possible towards like so called green solvents now, too, so they're trying to reduce the use of like hexane and other organic solvents. I'm moving towards like water and microwaves and supercritical extraction,

right, but has anyone so back to my other question is anyone made a reasonably priced? Safe supercritical co2? I

mean, like $20,000 reasonable

for me. Call me when you sell it for five grand? Yeah.

If anyone out there knows of one cheaper than that, let us know. But when I've been looking into it, that's the general. I think,

if it was five grand, a lot of people would buy it. I mean, at 20 grand a pop producer could buy it. Because presumably they're producing pot. You know what I mean? Yeah,

no, that would pay for itself. If you're

at my bar, and you know, hey, I want to spend 20 grand. Why? Because flavor real fresh, real pure. You know what I mean? Well, Like yeah

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Aaron writes in they met us at the Delmonico's dinner. Thanks for your enthusiasm, and well on the way to convincing my wife that we should book a trip to the fruit and spice Park in Florida. Dave, I'm glad you're here for this. We have a little research to do to pick the best season to visit. So what are your thoughts on I know you said you haven't been there in a number of years. But what are your thoughts on the best season in south in homes? It's in Homestead, right? Yes in Homestead Florida to visit for the widest range of cool and how do you book a trip there whereby someone will walk around with you and actually allow you to taste things?

You know, I haven't been there for a number of years so I'm not sure whether I know they do have festivals held there from time to time. I would go at the same time as the Fairchild Tropical Botanical Garden mango Festival, which is usually held in the middle of July not from the point of view of climate the most salubrious TIME TO VISIT FLORIDA nevertheless, you'll be able to taste mangoes probably like cheese long game. It's a pretty good time plus it's in the middle of summer which is convenient for a lot of people to travel

like with some of the other stuff they know that you're not a fan of I don't know what the Bering season is like they have a lot of different varieties of jumbo to kava there are they everbearing what are they?

I'm not sure. In California, I think things are probably different. So

they have some nice mace. I don't know if that's seasonal. They have a lot of interesting aromatic leaves. They have star fruits. I don't think they have such a wide array. Do you remember when we went and stuff was we might have gone once during the mango season time and they also had jackfruits but it's not like you can eat one of those off the tree anyway. You got to if you ever had any of you listening ever gotten jackfruit latex on your freaking clothes. Damn, I still not gotten out of that. It wasn't jackets. Jackfruit right that has the vicious latex. You have to cut and let skim over after it hits the ground. My correct on this? Yeah, it's nasty. It does not come out of your clothes. Is there any industrial use for that latex?

No, I know that. Italian American teenagers used to tattoo themselves with fig SAP, which is sort of, I believe in in the same family. They would inscribe their girlfriend's names on their arms in Fig SAP. How long

does it last infinitely? I don't think so. It's like It's like the HANA. So it's not a big commitment. It's like saying I like you. Yeah. It's like you wouldn't be for at least two weeks. Right? I can't call it Coleman shows live but I have two questions. We will be in New Orleans in two weeks. Do you have any awesome recommendations food and drink are both equally enjoyable for us. And if you guys been to New Orleans more recently than I have, I went to dooky Chase's which is great. Get the trip Clemenceau get trip Clemenceau. Now, back when Leah Chase was alive, she published several recipes for shrimp lemon. So I have made this recipe and it does not taste like the shrimp clam. And so they serve a Dookie chases, which leads me to believe she was holding something back in that recipe. Unless and this is possible. Gulf shrimp are the best tasting shrimp that God has ever created. And no offense golf or miss golf 2014 I don't think so. You know what I mean? I don't think so. I think they're adding some other stuff but try their shrimp Clements. So make sure you have a lot of other things to soak up all of the butter because you're gonna want to consume. The star of that isn't the necessarily the potatoes or the shrimp. It's the butter. Just like 999 Butter, butter and then And you know have their fried chicken definitely but also a block from there is Willie Mays chicken which is one of the original traditional, like Louisiana fried chicken joints, well worth a visit. If you're going to do muffle it is just you need to have at least two different styles of Muffuletta you need to have both a hot and a cold. Go. I know it's tourist trap, go to the central grocery get the traditional Muffaletta I like it. Some people don't use it don't like Anastasia the link to to buddy. You anyway, and go to Napoleon house to get the hot one. And while you're at Napoleon house, get you a Sazerac or a Pimm's Cup. Just because it's traditional there they ruined it like five six years ago when they put air conditioning in it used to just be a hot box all year round, but it's a good old place and then if you want to get out to a different neighborhoods go to I don't know, go to KU Shan or any one of those nice places out there, right. Also, do you have any experience with low temp alligator? No. No, it's a pretty crappy meat right? Maybe not worth bringing home a giant chunk of frozen Gator. Okay, so Anastasia Lopez, Piper Christiansen, and who else was on that trip with you? Grace? Yeah, we're in a motorhome in Florida maybe eight years ago? Yeah, yeah, they drove a motorhome all around Florida with a package of frozen Gator. And then we had to cook it in the motorhome kitchen. And it has ruined me on Gator. First of all the frozen Gator and a plastic thing is like not like a gator steak. It's like just like shredded nasty Gator meat that's been frozen and that kind of weepy thought and it was just like, it was unpleasant. I've had fried Gator plenty of times at like tourist establishments and you know what it tastes like? Fried for instance, like fried just taste like fried. You know what I mean? It's fried people like it's firm. It's it's like monkfish. No, it's not. I've had a lot of monkfish. I don't find it bad. I noticed the stuff that Piper bought was garbage. That was like just garbage. It's like, but I've had it be fine. But if you locked me in a room and said What does alligator tastes like? I'd say? I don't know. I don't know. No idea. You don't I mean, if you guys had good or bad Gator experiences?