Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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This episode is brought to you by route 11 Potato chips made with a secret recipe and superior ingredients. Their mission is to make an outstanding product in a safe and clean environment. To learn more visit rt eleven.com.

This week on a special bonus episode of meat in three we find out why the bacon egg and cheese that classic Bodega sandwich is popping up on menus of New York's trendiest restaurants. We did

a few iterations of it and I was trying to identify it. We tried the sausage egg and cheese and then we tried to put chermoula sauce on it. We use feta cheese and we're just like taking ingredients of the Mediterranean if you will and try to infuse it but for me it was like a car wreck.

Tune in to hear about the wild journey of the bacon egg and cheese from Delhi to fine dining on meat and three hrs weekly food news roundup available wherever you listen to podcasts

Hello and welcome to go Aegis This is Dave Arnold your host of cooking issues coming to you live every tuesday run well you know to one sharp because Matthews got something to do from the first feature in which we're joined as usual with Anastasia hammer Lopez how're you doing? Good Yeah, yeah, man booth How you doing?

I'm doing great. Yeah,

anything happened in the past week when we weren't here?

No, the place just shuts down while you're not here.

You didn't cook anything good anything good stab anyone? Nothing?

No, I went down to Shenandoah was looking for bear who's gonna cook up some bear but

did they eat there there? Is it bear season? No, you're not allowed to eat the bears anymore.

But they're supposed to be delicious. That's

that's the lore I'm dating young bear is supposed to be delicious. The Stasi United had old bear like killed it the wrong time of year and not remember that was not good. And there.

Remember when we bought some stuff from this guy. But then they've cooked a whole raccoon right? And they were giving it this is at the FCI they were giving the tour to a new potential student and they would take him around each of the kitchen classrooms. And Dave's sitting there with this whole raccoon. I think you'd already deep fried it or something. Yeah, it was nasty. And then the kid the step potential student was like, What's he cooking and the tour guide was like, I don't know,

baby. That's true story. That's true. That's a true story. I don't think those people showed up the money to go to the

ages raccoon delicious.

I don't not whatever we had. So Uh, like, you know, it turns out, we bought from this guy, this guy, I'm not even gonna say his name, but he, you know, on his website, he was like, oh, everything is responsible blahdy blahdy USDA, like legal and everything. And then I talked about it on the blog and a bunch of people, you know, wrote in and we're like a PSA, this guy was arrested once for doing like illegal stuff means the kind of stuff where I was like, I'm never going to order from that guy again. So we never ordered from him again. I mean, there's a there's another outfit out that sells kind of like super rare exotic meat. But the problem was exotic meat. It's not like If an animal is being raised for food, like in general, like it's slaughtered at the at, you know, at a time anyway, that has some relationship to an economic value of when the either meat is good, or in some cases, you know, wolf or whatever. But there's a reason why an animal was killed at that particular time at that stage in his life. A lot of the exotic stuff is like, I gotta go kill some raccoons now. So who knows? You know what I mean? What is circus? Or not? Well, it's like, you know, like, I got this lion and swear, like, I got this lion. And it's eating me out of house and home. And it turns me who knew lions will get big, right? I mean, who could have predicted that that little cub would turn into a giant, meat eating dangerous animal that I have to have in a cage outside my house? Who could have figured that out? You know what I mean? And so then they sell it to, you know, this guy that we don't buy anymore? And then they, you know, it's it's kind of tough. It's a horrible thing. So it's always so the bear is probably an old circus bears witness does, he is saying, yeah, probably, you know what I mean? So it's like, not, not anything you want to support. But I will say that I've heard from hunters that, you know, bear at the right time of year, the right age is delicious, but I have not had it that way. And you can get I think commercially prepared and raised bear in in Japan, at least up in Hokkaido. You know, they're kind of famous for it, but I've never had bear. I was, you know, the one time I went to Japan with Anastasia, we didn't have bear. No, no, not that we know of. Yeah, yeah. So you know, I'm waiting. So I don't know the answer is, I don't know. I know that. The raccoon I had not delicious. The Beaver Delicious. Delicious. I heard someone else on the internet bad mouthing, Beaver. Hello, internet. I disagree with you on this point. So

somebody is on the phone with I think a piece of information not a question.

Hello, caller you're on the air. What is your piece of information?

Hey, Dave, it's Andy in Chicagoland. How you doing?

Doing? All right. Doing all right. What's up? Good. So

as a fellow lover of most things, Neil Diamond. I wanted to defend Cracklin Rosie? Ooh, get on board. Yeah, gentlemen, on. Yeah, totally. So it's the legend is that Cracklin Rosie was this cheap, sparkling rose a wine that he heard of and wrote a song based on it. So it's a poor man's lady because it's cheap. You know? Don't need whatever. What was the other thing about? Oh, yeah, it's storebought woman. Yeah, bottle of booze. So you can go on loving it and not feel too bad about that song. You know, I think there's some other questionable Neil Diamond tracks.

That's it. Like what's what's the questionable one? At least?

Well, you know, the one that we all love to hate. And even even me, you know, Caroline? Yeah. Caroline.

Is it problematic from a lyrical standpoint? Or is it problematic? Because? Because everyone goes back. Like, well, that's,

that's terrible. I mean, Michelle? Michelle. Yeah, Michelle. But, yeah, so I mean, that's terrible. But also, I think I heard that he wrote it after being inspired of a young Carolyn seeing a young Carolyn Kennedy, on the cover of a magazine and it sort of sexualized her. So it's really a proud moment. That's really true. But

how old was she at the time? Like, what was the spread?

Oh, you know, I mean, she was like, you know, preteen. Oh, gross. Disgusting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know if that's true. Don't quote me on that. But you can. Well, you can call me on it. As long as you say it's, you know, it's not authoritative.

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, he's still alive. We can ask him you know when to stop. His favorite is traveling. I was a traveling brothers. Brother loves traveling salvation show.

Salvation show. That album is the best it says one of his first albums, I think, and it ends actually with Sweet Caroline but yeah, that's a banger. Just listen to the whole

album. Stassi enjoys any situation where you physically have to lift the old ladies. Yeah.

Right. Yeah, pack up the babies. The ladies. Everyone goes you know, you guys have all seen Hot August night right and not to the album. I mean, listen to the album. Oh my god. Oh, yeah. The album. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, so. Alright, well, that's it.

Let me ask you one more question before you go. How damaging was that wretched jazz singer thing to his legacy?

You know, I don't even know I'm a fan of basically everything that happened around Hot Hot August night before so I don't even really know what do you think?

I don't I don't think we think we'd like that was just a terrible movie situation was that his only movie was a nightmare

might have been. Yeah, I've never seen it. I don't think I ever will. I don't like to think of him as you know, is his in his prime years and you know, late 60s early 70s and just kind of leave it at that

I used to sing. I used to sing the LA's fine, but it ain't home. New York's home with me. You might know more to my sister in law. Miley. When she moved out to San Francisco. She was like your jerk. She moved back though.

Yeah, it's a good one. All right. It's

a great song. Great song. Anyway, thanks so much for that information.

Will Ferrell is Neil Diamond on SNL ever seen that now music now? Oh, my God. So good. He tells us the quote unquote, stories behind the songs. You gotta check it out.

I like I like Will Ferrell. And I like Neil Diamond. So that seems like I've won twice. Check it out.

Yeah, yep. You certainly have. Cool.

I appreciate that. All right. Yeah. Take it easy. Oh, and on the subject of non cooking related stuff. We'll just get out of the way now. I'm building a laser projector that's just has nothing to do with anything. But I bought this crazy laser on eBay, a visible laser. And I was like, oh, it's it's only 800 milliwatts. How bad can that be? Oh, my God. When I turn that thing on Anastasia, I accidentally burned through one of the wires because the beam was crossing the wire. And then I realized thank God, my wall is white, or like, my wall on fire. It is crazy. So what laser projector for what purpose? So I had this idea that like, Wouldn't it be nice if your laser pointer could work like a highlighter and underline or where you could just underline something with your laser pointer. Yes. Yeah, they said I'm building that does it underline the thing by searing its way into the wall. When you're scanning it at a high kind of frame rate is the point. That's not supposed to stay anywhere. There's two there's two mirrors, galvanometer mirrors, they're like, you know, like, we're going back and forth. And they trace the beam all over and you turn it off and on. So it's like, spread out, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like a dot that you're sitting there. I just wanted one night anyway, so the anyway, I don't know. So if you're gonna go buy a laser on the internet's just, you know, be careful. I mean, everyone says, Be careful, I knew to be careful. Like I had the glasses and everything that wasn't gonna shine in my eye. But I was like, who thinks 800 milliwatts less than a watt is going to ignite stuff in your house. Dax was pretty stoked, Dax walked up there with like matches and was just like lighting match after match after match with it. I was like,

Robert, from the chat claims that you're going to have a very tough time finding a lens that laser won't burn and distort,

oh, you're not we're not using a lens. So it's like, it's literally just mirrors and it's not like high power and it's not IR it's it's all visible. It's all visible light. And it's just mere bouncing. So you know, it all this stuff used to be fantastically expensive. But now for like $70 or less, if you're willing to get it direct from China, you can get like dual calibrated like XY galvanometers. And, you know, like, and the laser, you buy a you buy a an RGB laser now also cheap, where they've already like, aligned all of the all of the mirrors so that the beams are coincident. And it all comes in a box, you know, I mean, so you buy like the laser box, and it's got, you know, TTL which is just, you know, logic inputs for turning the individual lasers on, you put that onto a microprocessor. The microprocessor drives a DAC, which is a digital audio thing. And then you just put that directly into the input of the drivers for the mirrors, and they sit there tracing stuff and you're done. It's like, you know, a little bit of programming on an Arduino and you know, and you're done. The hard part is getting is building the little 9x Nine axis degree of freedom like hand thing that I'm going to use as the drawing or whatever, it has nothing to do with cooking. This has nothing to do with cooking, alright? And also nothing to do with my job and Anastasia is mad because she thinks this is the new civil war because she's thought that I was spending all my time instead of working on our business working on do you Dave reading Civil War Do you? What since when? Since when we read book going? Oh, you know what? Yes. Is it going? I mean, if in fact the classics in the field for the first time ever the classics in the field is going to be something a related to the to the book. And b I don't have it with me. I forgot to like get it and bring it with me or anything like that.

Anyway, we should do this because it's

what's this? Oh, wait, we're still talking about weird animals right or we're done talking about weird animals. So raccoon, bad. Yak. Great. It loves yak yak. Delicious. I would eat yak again and again. Beaver good bear bad. guinea pig Very good. Remember when they brought it in? We were doing whole deep fried Kui the guinea pig. Yeah, that was very good. Kathy Berra good. Crocodile we never had an alligator. We never had a good one. Right?

We had that in Florida, right? It was terrible, right?

It was garbage. Or I've had it, you know, commercially prepared. Whatever. Anyway. How did that come up? How did the weird animal thing come up man was bear hunting. Oh, yeah. In Shannon in Shenandoah, listening to listening to John Denver before he moved out to freegan John Denver.

What is the fact?

Oh, Nastasia is fame.

Oh, I bought you. We're doing this chicken cannon thing.

I think we're doing do we have confirmation from your

brother in law? Anyway? I bought you Jonathan rich Christmas album, so we can play it.

But what does it have to do with the chicken just in general? So Nastasia again, not cooking related. But Anastasia is favorite

David is yours. We

will it's not. It's yours. You found it out. And you're the one that like, fine. This is a classic. Miss das Anastasia saying that something that is her favorite is somebody else's favorite. Because she's like, I'm a little embarrassed. That was Oh, speaking of a little embarrassed. I need people to tell me what they think the coolest karaoke place I've ever been to is the Stasi and I I've went for the first time in my life to karaoke. So I'm a neophyte, and I found that the system was garbage. So I want to hear from people like

suppose in LA there's a bunch of good ones really.

I spoke to Damon Hart Joey Rogo at the bar and he says that there's some good ones in Cape Town here that have like effects and stuff like that. He's going to take us to one of the good ones anyway. I want to know what like the most like, like tricked out. Wait karaoke, Denver. So John Denver, me and John Denver, voice of an angel right acted in many famous versions of oh god, oh god. Oh, God, you devil. Like all of those things with George Burns. troubled man anger, deep seated anger. I mean, among other things, right. I

mean, there's like anger issues. Well,

I mean, that's what we're talking about now but went through you know, a nasty divorce and nasty divorce where he had to give her half of everything and shows up walks up and by the way, you in your mind I want you to be singing grandma's Featherbed which is one of his you know, kind of good songs right like that song right? I don't know it didn't didn't get a lot sleep but we had a lot of fun on grandma's Featherbed anyway, Matthew know this song saucy No. Yeah. And at the end there's some muffled words about the girl down the lane anyway, it's a great song go listen to it. goes into his for post Featherbed remember divorce or during during the divorce. It was like half pulls out a chainsaw

cuts the bed in half and walks out.

Now you're never gonna hear John Denver's

didn't get a lot of sleep but we had a lot of fun on on grandmas and unburied.

Anyway, trying to follow the court's order

is half past.

This episode is brought to you by route 11 potato chips. From the moment route 11 dropped their first batch of chips back in the early days of 1992. They understood their destiny as a high quality producer. Instead of succumbing to the frenzy of mass production, they took advantage of their small size and made shipping a personal art form. The payoff was immediate, an incredible potato chip. With the secret recipe and superior ingredients. Their mission is to make an outstanding product and a safe and clean environment. In this world of uncertainty that we live in route 11 Potato Chips believe comfort food can be just that know where your food comes from. To learn more, visit rt eleven.com

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so Long Island,

Long Island. Strong does not wish to be identity by the way. I want some people to write in. I know you write things too like words of encouragement to Anastasia about how terrible I am. I've seen them.

I will spare you any

Yeah, but But will you please? This is a Long Island thing will you please write into her and tell her that before it's too late? Oh my allow herself to see a Billy Joel concert. Please. Please. Why should you deny yourself? This concert?

I thought we were supposed to go we were supposed to get tickets or like free tickets. That's yeah, how

was that gonna happen? Said

he knew somebody from MSG. Anyway,

when I was like 20 I knew the guy who told me like, like last year anyway, whatever. Please enjoy the following. We have a striped bass fillet that was caught this Sunday but that's frozen or something right? We can't eat that. That's for you to take home. Okay. Masa also not cook so we're not going to get it now but it's made with masa corn. And this listener does not wish to be identified. No Kevin from Long Island Kevin. Sandy Capri Sun. No, that's his email and don't Oh, what do you think about that beverage Capri Sun?

I love them. I like one flavor. red berry blast.

red berry blast so good. That man you wouldn't Booker. Same exact human being. Do you know that? Like, you know the company honesty? Yeah. So they basically were like, the kids. They had kids. Apparently this is the story of Booker tells me so it's filtered through Booker's mind. And I didn't bother researching myself. They had kids and the kids were like, Yo, we don't like tea makes something for us. And they came out with honest kids. This is a marketing genius saying because it's fundamentally Capri Sun and it just says honest kids on it and so parents lied it says eyes kid so I don't know this box of sugar and water is better than the other one. And so they pound on his kids like the end of the world is coming. Geez. Yeah, Capri Sun. People are working on the Capri Sun. Cocktails. That's the thing. That's the thing coming up. Well, it's like when you're on the beach. No, no, no. What do you think you like canned wine, though?

In a pinch, we drink it.

Well, I mean, like, it's not like if you had a cooler and the cooler was full of beers. And that rose a wine. What are you gonna go for? Yeah. Do they put carbonated wine in cans sometimes. zactly lately? No. You wish it was good though. Yes, that way you can be pounding. Although you get effed up hard I get so if people that's the thing is like they're gonna put it in a beer sighs can they should put in like a wineglass size can

they have like this thing called house wine that comes in a cannon it's like it's like three glasses of wine and

a sit there with a beer can and drink three glasses of wine wide mouth. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and if you're like keeping up with because you know you like kind of with your friends. Yeah,

they should come in like a VA can. Yeah, that's sigh Yeah. Or slightly larger Anyway, whatever. Partially dried a Fuyu persimmons if you like persimmon I had some delicious persimmon from Korea that was given to us by one of Jen's my wife's workers. And then it went moldy. It was still good though. Not moldy. Like the mold we talked about before moldy. Okay, moldy. Summers sausage. Now, if any of you were alive in the 70s summer sausage, my

mom used to send me summer sausages in college. Oh, yeah. Gift. Like, I bet you missed this.

This is was it full of like wet newspaper. Oh

wait, what's the deal was somersault for those of us who weren't alive in the 70s.

It was alive. It was everywhere. It was like the thing. You went into Hickory Farms. You got their little like, Cheez Whiz in like a piece of aluminum foil. That said, like something to fancy fie it there was a summer sausage. There was like a port wine cheese thing. Some crackers, and then a bunch of the Easter basket fluff. Yep. And then it was wrapped over. And like, you know, before Hickory Farms was in the mall. Hickory Farms was crap you ordered from a catalog it showed up at your house. And you had to wait several

weeks. And salumi wasn't a thing.

Yeah. So then you would wait and showed up and then once it was in the once once you could just walk into a mall and buy it. I was like, the blushes off the rows. I was like, you know, nine summer sausage. So that was one of the things that was like the hickory farm thing, right. I bet you missed it. But this summer sausage is not the hickory farm style. It's a blend of hunted white tailed deer from upstate and commercial pork. Okay, it's with a ch Hanson safe pro culture, which is the lacto culture that used to drop the pH in it so that it's safe. Fermented in a bag, the proper pH then smoked. Are you going to want to Oh, it's less Kira from Olympia provisions who was on the show a while his his recipe with minor Justice adjustments stored in the fridge and Shani wary of this year. I mean, eating it since then. And then we got some finishing jerky. Matt, you're having some of this. You heard what I called you. venison jerky, standard recipe with a Hondata unit hunted this. Wait, hunted this whitetail past Saturday, they already have jerky man, you're prolific and two different types of Chinese raise your mold, which I also enjoy and gets caramel creams. A man who knows my favorite candy. Now you eat this and we'll talk about it. And then while you're while you're eating, I'll be talking and then you talk about gets caramel cream and our unsuccessful attempt to mitigate what we're trying to do while I eat mine. Or I go okay,

this sausage is good. We try to make gets caramel creams but with a coconut cream center. And it was we were unsuccessful. I don't know why we were on success. It was

bad. But imagine people that would be so yeah, a coconut caramel cream. Would they get caramel cream? For those of you that have never been to the northeast or Pennsylvania or anything? Gets it spelled Goe tz so it should be pronounced Geurts. But it's gets and it says on the package. Because they're sick of people mispronouncing the name gets. Let me ask you a question. random question. You go to a bar. I don't know. Let's say it's existing conditions, right?

Let's go to my favorite bar.

Let's say you go to existing conditions. And and you could buy Martin's pretzels or my favorite you know this. You've heard me talk about a million times what? Now? Yeah, so my question is what is reasonable to charge for like $3 $3? For three pretzels? Yeah. I love Martin's pretzels. Martin's pretzels. The best. I have these people come up to me, people that I generally respect and they're like, really genuine generally respect these people is delicious sausage. They were like really good. They were like, I don't like hard pretzels. I was like, Get out of my face. Don't talk to me for a week. They were some of your colleagues. Yeah, I was like, I don't want to see you or talk to you for like a week. But how do you not like a hard pretzel? I like soft pretzels. First of all soft pretzels. Not really a pretzel in my heart. pretzel stick not a pretzel pretzels. Pretzels and Martins are like the best clearly. If you've never had a Martin's pretzels summer sausage, it tastes good with Oh my god. Right. And some simple mustard. I need some mustard up in this. I need some mustard up in here. Yeah, so you talk while you finish eating the journey is good. What do you got to say more about because I got to have about five seconds. Well, I'm

worried about it. Why? Because you say that you're not supposed to eat. You don't eat cow jerky? And you have jerky? No, you say don't use any cow brains. Know when we when we go on road trips. You say don't get the cow Turkey get the pig jerky? Or the turkey jerky but not Oh,

I don't know if I remember saying it really? No, but you've said it three times. The best. Herky jerky is the one from Lancaster County pa the in the Lancaster County farmers market. There's a lady called the turkey jerky lady or something like this. And her turkey jerky is like the best Turkey Turkey. If you like Turkey Turkey. Do you like Turkey? Turkey?

I like turkey. This is good. It could use more salt and spices.

You could? But no, actually, you could not use any more shoulder.

I wish I could tell you the story of the Amazon person that I pissed off this

morning. Nastasia Lopez, Dexter day. I'm an aihole which by the way, is the approved term, please. Yeah, let's start calling each other evils. Yeah. Good.

That's it. Yeah, I'm

gonna say anything more about it.

No. Nope. Anyway, what do you think of the jerky?

I think? I mean, I always add more. So I was I don't think it needs more spice. I just like I'm a salt fiend. But the issue with jerky is is that it's easy for it to go way too salty because you're dehydrating it you know what I mean? You could post alter post. So anyway, I'm gonna answer some questions. And then we got to remember gotta get the classics in the field. We only have 10 minutes. And yesterday you'll like this. So we also we did quest loves event. We did quest loves book launch for the mixtape potluck last week, which is why we didn't have a show last week. And that was mostly because I couldn't and I had to do a I had to do a cocktail That was almost entirely grand Marne, yay. And Nastasia decided it was gonna be called one of my favorite things to say what it was originally, my grandpa lives in my driveway, but But grandma needs grandma in barre parlance. And so we call it my grandma lives in my driveway. And so all these people, all these famous people were like, I'd like my grandma lives in my driveway. And I was like, Peter came up with like, my grandma lives in my driveway. I'm like, Are you mocking me? Because my grandma actually lived in my driveway. Yeah, we've told that story on the air right? My grandma was my driver. You're not my grandma. My grandma lives in my driveway. My dad was amazing. Because my grandparents legitimately lived in a motorhome in my driveway for years. And while my parents driveway

if there's a way to Google the episode, where you talk about your parents wedding, or your mom and your stepdads wedding, that's the greatest story ever really ever.

Does she speedy? Yeah, I try to. To this day. I don't even know I've never had a speedy I don't know what it is. I don't know, like how to translate like Neapolitan Boston diaspora.

What's the word that you say that I said? What does it mean?

Scott and gore? I don't have any idea. Some of them I know what they are. But like they're just mutilated, like, a score and yield you know, given that you want I mean, that means squared, right? Conch, like you know, well, yeah. Give them the scrunchie give them the shot on God. Anyway. The other one, I have no idea what it means someone who is fluent in this sort of these sort of dialects can tell me I just grew up hearing it. I have no idea what it is. I got hay. So like, you know when you know when Charlie Brown, like gets a rock in on Halloween, I got a rock which is like terrible. You can see the rock getting thrown. It's pretty it's pretty dark those peanuts thing. Anyway, so in my stepfather's family, I got cut off police. What? Cordell police? What is the only way I say it? It sounds like you know what's his name? Brad Pitt in Inglorious Basterds, Gore lami. But like, Gerard my stepfather dryers like cut off police. You know what I mean? Is like there's all the someone someday will tell me what it means. Jeff from Palm Springs right saying on eggnog. Could you discuss the safety of aging eggnog? Assuming it is safe, which it is, if it's age long enough? Why is it safe? How are those perishable ingredients preserved? alcohol and sugar? What's happening in the process? This stuff dies from the alcohol and the sugar. I enjoy your show Jeff from Palm Springs. So every couple of years this crops up the famous work was done by Rockefeller University. There was a doctor there, Rebecca Lancefield, who was died in 1981. She born 1980 95 So she lived to a ripe old age, and every Thanksgiving. Now listen, this is what's important. She was aging from Thanksgiving to Christmas. So her recipe was a dozen eggs a quart of heavy cream, a quart of light cream, a pint of bourbon, a quart of rum, nutmeg, and sugar to taste one half to three quarters of a pound. That's a nightmare of a recipe. I know people but this was in the 70s or whatever she was writing this so you know, cut her some slack. In terms of units, it's a nightmare. Beat eggs, add bourbon and rum slowly with stirring to prevent precipitation of eight proteins. So she didn't ribbon the eggs, which is what a lot of people do in modern things. Then here's the weird one, beat heavy cream separately until it peaks and add to the egg bourbon rum mix. So and then it's age, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that maybe she adds the cream later. I don't know, because why would you whip the cream, add it and then aged. But she doesn't specify anyway. So it turns out that that recipe is 14.4% alcohol and if she had aged it without the heavy whipping cream and put that in at the last minute, which is maybe what she did, then it would have been around 20 It has a brix of about five to seven and a half percent supposed to be eggnog. No eggnog is supposed to be I don't know, but this is her recipe. That's all that matters. So they tested her recipe with the alcohol percentage and economic normally should be no because I don't make it I don't drink it. I don't have a recipe for it. My book. I've never come up with a recipe for it.

Did we make it one year?

If by we You mean Piper?

I thought that was you know,

so they tested it they the issue is is that the the bacteria isn't killed right away. But it doesn't grow anymore and it starts dying. So after a couple of weeks of aging, it is it is fully fine and will stay fine. It does change over time. Some people like very aged eggnog some people don't. You know Kenji did some sort of tasting a couple of years ago where they didn't like the eggnog after been age for a year but they were serving a 20% alcohol which is way more alcoholic than the Rockefeller recipe so who knows? Nick Bennett from porch light, ages it for a couple of years. We once had one that was like four years old and it was nasty. And it's

going to use this year for Christmas.

What So wine Santa I don't have the time I don't have time. Alex writes in are interested in hearing Dave's opinion on space ice cream. I'm personally a huge fan thoughts opinions, anecdotes, chemistry, I've made it the stuff just freeze dried, it's easy to freeze dry ice cream, because it's already got a lot of air holes in it. So it's relatively on dense. So the less dense the ice cream you start with, the easier it is to freeze dry. And because it's already kind of in a frozen state and you're not worried about collapse, you can just kind of take ice cream out of the freezer and freeze dry it you don't need liquid nitrogen or anything crazy. So if you have any sort of freeze dryer, it's very easy to make. I think it's okay in the way that like you know, marshmallows in a cereal box are okay, what do you think? It's fine, but it's it's like one of the easiest things to make in a freeze dryer. It's relatively stable so and it tastes relatively good compared to other freeze dried things straight. Like you know, the worst freeze dried thing I ever freeze dried, like oysters. Oh my god, were they bad? Remember that? No, I don't think clams. Oh, god. Oh is canned clams. I took canned clams and freeze dried them. And imagine imagine if the ocean came to rob your mouth of all of its moisture. Imagine if low tide the personification of low tide showed up and removed every speck of moisture from your mouth. That is what it tasted. The trick with Dave, you got three minutes at the tip of the trick with Deep Freeze drying is it there needs to be enough water in it for there to be a good texture when it's done and there needs to be enough fat in it such that it's not intensely drying or enough sugar such that it's not intensely drying when you eat it. That's the trick now and then we did this whole thing Okay, so

we get the question I say yeah, yeah,

what I did oh country ham we'll do country yeah next time cuz I want to get maybe I'll get translated see whether he can. The question was Does anyone sell shank on country ham? I don't know whether anyone does in the US sell on American made shanking country ham because even at the heritage places the shanks are cut off his joke was wrote in this? I don't know. I'll think about it for next week. Cool. So in closing, we have a couple of minutes earlier. So this week, we're going to talk about a book that was very important to me. Called roasting a simple Are you ever have that book? mustachioed? How many millions of times have you heard me talk about it many? Really, so what so tell me what am I going to say something? I don't know that

Browning effects, no different cultures roasting Oh, then get to a date. So you've never heard me say you say you have roasting. What I've heard you talk about a book called roasty.

And then from there, you spaced out, so you have no idea like, okay, the book was made in 1995. It was called roasting a simple art. So Barbara Kafka actually had dinner with her once, which I'll get to in a second, if I have time. She wrote this book in kind of mid 90s. And the, I don't feel that people are reading it very much these days. But I think it's hard to kind of underestimate the effect it had, or at least the kind of ripples that were thrown into the cooking water by this book. And in fact, it is one of the was one of the very couple of books that is really influencing influenced me to the extent that I'm thinking a lot about it for the book that I'm writing about the miracle of moisture management. And it's a big thick book, and it can be summed up basically, with this, turn your oven up. So all of the recipes in it are turn your oven as hot as it can get, you know, and put the stuff in, take the chicken, turn your oven up to 500 degrees, throw it into the oven, take you know, take your potatoes, cut them up, toss them in oil, salt, pepper, you know, maybe some rosemary, if you're Deseret, maybe some onions in there, throw it into the oven at 500 and just cook it till it's done. And when you read it, it's one of those things almost like low temperature cooking, where you're like, that's crazy. That's crazy, because when she was writing it in the 90s and 95, no one, no one was really thinking about what was going on in the cooking process to make to make things work and what the effect of jacking the temperature is. Instead, people like Julia Child were like bent because it fills your house with smoke. In fact, almost none of us have event good enough that we can turn our oven up to or an oven clean enough. If your oven is like scrupulously clean. And if all of the fat that comes off of a bird or whatever is caught in a pan that has liquid so that it doesn't scorch and fire. You can crank your oven to 500 reliably because the bird itself is probably not going to burn but it's just all the ancillary stuff that causes all the smoke. So I would say most people that are following her recipes are really only going up to 425 450 But it was this really just like you know pedal to the floor way of cooking was rather revolutionary at the time. And so she caught a lot of flack for it and cluding from people like specifically Julia Childs who gave her flack for it. So this book was like, I know, it was important to me when I was doing all these experiments. I had this giant Blodgett half pan of him that I had modified so that I could shoot video in it. It had glass on all four sides, and I would crank it to, you know, up to 450, which is the highest it would go but it was convection. And I was doing her stuff and it really had an effect on kind of how I was cooking at the time, had dinner with her. And by the way, she died last year at the age of like, 8485 I had dinner with her and Giuliano Bucha Ali which by the way, he also just died this year. Crazy. Do you like crazy Italian people, but you like hardcore, like, if I ever told you the blue jelly stories on the air before the will next maybe I'll choose a Giuliana Bujagali book and we'll talk about Giuliana jelly another time. So I am having dinner I was I was 30 like two or three, but I looked like 22 or three. And I had just started doing low temperature cooking Suvi cooking instruction at the French Culinary Institute in Napa, which you know, sorry, California Napa in the summer holds so hot, so much sun and everything I hate anyway. So I'm there at this conference being put on by Mondavi. This is the conference where the next year I went to it and Mondavi got wheeled up to his seat so he could sip champagne out of a straw in his like 90s He couldn't move but he could still sip champagne out of the straw. And I was like that is the way to go. If you if if it sounds like but it's quality live quality of life is dude is drinking champagne out of a straw in his 90s This is a huge win. I see this as a huge win. Anyway. So we're at Mondavi at copia and I have dinner with Barbara Kafka and Juliana blue jolly. And I stupid stupid guy. This is always how I do it's so stupid I say to her. Hey, so you know roasting, great book. Love it. You know, what do you think about this low temperature cooking. And she lit into me about low temperature cooking as this new fad and everything because I think she took it as yet another attack on the way that she was writing. She also wrote the first like well known microwave cookbook in the 80s in like 1987. But in my normal like bonehead fashion, I kind of wasn't clear about well, low temperature and high temperature. These like brothers, you know what I mean? You can't do one without the other. What I was really saying is I'm kind of supporting this high temperature idea that you have, right? And but also kind of melding it with low temperature and my whole cooking career trajectory since then, has been about high, high high, and then low, low low weight way of cooking. And that's still the way I think and I think people don't go back and look at her book, especially in the light of low temperature cooking. That you know we do now in CV cooking, go back and take a look at her work and kind of reassess the importance of what Barbara Kafka did because I think it's important that this week's plastic surgeon in the field here cooking issues