Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

You're listening to heritage radio network. We're a member supported food Radio Network broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, join our hosts as they lead you through the world of craft brewing behind the scenes of the restaurant industry. Inside the battle over school food and beyond. Find us at Heritage radio network.org

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Cookie issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from whenever I get here till about one from Virtus pizzeria in Bushwick.

Glen join as usual Anastasia

hammer Lopez, how you doing? Good. Yeah. Yeah. Got Matt in the booth. How you doing? I'm doing great. Yeah, either of you to eat anything. Good. past week. Oh, boy. Now,

not that comes to mind right now.

I just went to Chicago by his real name. Fabien fine husky and Jeremiah's new place people's not Mr. Peebles from the gorilla gorilla, which is I call last night. It's good. It's good. Nice. Air. You got a good business going there. It's in the Essex street market and the market line downstairs. Yeah. You guys went nowhere. And you go out like three, four times a week.

Yeah. I haven't gotten there.

Anywhere to get it. No, we're good. Oh, no,

not that I want to talk about.

Wow. All right. All right. Great. Call any questions? 27184972128. That's 71849727184972128 right now. Ding ding ding. So next week, I believe and Stasi we have on the show. This is correct. This time they're coming in the orange King, New Zealand. Salmon. Booker, my son Booker's favorite salmon? Do you think I should try to get him off of school so you can come in and talk to the working people directly? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Are they going to get by the way? If the if we still have the listener who turned to Booker saying Shut up dad into a ringtone, Booker is lobbying to have me get rid of that as my ringtone because he's like, it makes me sound mean dad. And then if I say goodbye to he'll just still say, shut up, dad. You know what I mean? But anyway, he wants me to change the ringtone, but I still appreciate that song made that for me. Anyway, I'll try to maybe get Booker off so you can come in. Are they bringing salmon in? It's here right man?

No, no, it's coming. Yeah. Next. Yes and it will be here.

Is it going to be cured raw cook? What would they bring? Do you know? I have no idea. I mean am I expected to bring a sizzle and cook it live here? I mean what? All right. I don't know. All right. Speaking of we I don't know about the series I really don't Amazon's really hosing us our our our sizzles allowed to be sold yet the ones that we own. Yeah, super. By the way people everyone knows how much mr. Raskin I love the Amazon. So I won't belabor it. But we're, since we control still the cocktail cube and the spins, all the sale is still going on the spins off and the cocktail cube. I'm just gonna go here and say for 999 A cocktail cube was a good gift for the bartender in your life, because then they could just use it, put it in their back pocket when they go to somebody's house and that person has crappy ice, they're still going to get a good texture, shake and drink and start somewhere. Right.

So our Sears order was late, right because of a Chinese holiday. And so they were like, it's like, we're gonna dock you they meaning Amazon and yeah, and they said give us the reason it was late. So I gave them reason why it was late. And they said, well, that's not true because Chinese holiday was from this date to this date. Please dive deeper into your delay reason and let us know what how to improve your future shipments.

Oh my god, I deeper dive deeper into my deliveries and Alright, well, I'm pretty sure Anastasia is, first of all, Amazon. Amazon done took the water out of that pool. So as soon as you dive in your face hits the concrete there's no more deeper you can go without it without a drilling rig. I mean jerks. Anyway, this writes in regarding vegan creamer. I want to go vegan with my coffee cream. But all the options seem subpar. It seems like separation and flocculating flocculation are issues with most of the milks? Is there any method or doping that resolves this or any brands that have cracked it? Thanks Beth from Philadelphia. Well, okay, so you get your vegan face. She can choose your normal face now you just walk around and perpetual vegan She says her normal face I'm so depressed that question at home so I made it when I can't be bothered to

make it now because the vegan face to face she makes when she has served something vegan.

Now like okay, let's say let's say someone shows up. So for those of you that have never been to Roberta's that the radio is in the back in a container and there's like a large window. And then there's this kind of atrium that they kind of fake put a roof over. I don't know how the heck it's allowed by the Department of Buildings. We don't talk about that. And then but like so, we just sit here this picture window and we see people come in and out so the vegan face is the same face mat so you would know that she makes when she sees like an inappropriate midriff. Uh huh. It's the same face. Or by the way that's not a gendered thing. I mean, a male female midriff

here or I mean, yeah, most of the Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Or like when she sees like a giant like wad of pit hair, something like this. Putting your pizza down, which is a it's a it's a Brooklyn thing, people. So Brooklyn fake. This is not meant to be, you know, pejorative. I don't think anyway, that's the same face, she makes the same same relative face. Anyway, so if I don't have any actual knowledge with non dairy creamer, by the way, if you say just say non dairy creamer to somebody, and you're talking about the stuff that was developed, oh, I don't know in the 50s or whenever that stuff isn't necessarily vegan, it just doesn't have milk in it. Right. So most of those non dairy creamers have casein in it that is in fact derived from milk it's just not actually milk and I don't know how they get away with calling it non dairy creamer but a lot of vegans don't trust their non like labels like non dairy creamer like coffee mate Cree Maura, which I don't even know if they make any more there's a liquid ones in the powdered ones so while I was researching this oh by the way be sorry I'm gonna go off a little bit of a tangent here. I had forgotten I did it one time no this that it is possible to to use non dairy creamer to make giant fireballs so the next time it stops you want to make these at Stanford? No, why not? You know like a giant fireball I thought you loved

it strikes me as possibly the best use of non dairy

creamer Yeah, yeah. So you get any size can you want right all the way from a small can up to and there's a website I wish I'd written it down that gives you number of ounces of paradex like black powder to use for you know per square you know per diameter of can see a punch a hole in the bottom of the can you put a fuse long fuse into the bottom of the can you pour the pour the black powder in a line then you take in ya Like when you're cooking, you know, one of the old school cooking methods for veg, or even some braises is you cut like you cut or you fold up, you fold a parchment paper into like, into like, into like a wedge shape and then you cut a circle and then a little thing so you can stick it into the pan so that it can gently cover but like not have a pan way up top we have How are you familiar with this technique?

Absolutely not.

Okay, well anyway, it's a technique for a lot of times cooking veg now but instead of cutting a hole in the middle, right, you just cut a circle out of something thin like tissue cloth or tissue paper, something like this, stick it on top of the black powder. And then no, you want to do this in the place where you're gonna light it because you don't want this stuff to get compacted. And God forbid you don't want to create an electrostatics park or anything like this. It sets off the the black powder, but you just start dumping like nondairy creamer or like milk replacer from like a feedlot store even flour or confectioners sugar on top like a layer of it on like a fairly decent layer you fill up the can like you know half full or something like this. And then you light the fuse and you'll run and what happens is is you familiar with grain silo explosions Anastasia. Matt. Yes, I am. Yeah. Okay. So like flour grain like these places that deal with dust in big containers really have to worry about explosions. And on the internet you can see flour explosions, people will make these anyway so what happens is the black powder injects the thing instantly into a dust cloud and simultaneously ignites it so like a five gallon bucket, like from Home Depot set up this way can make a fireball that's like 70 feet tall.

I've always wanted to see this while also not wanting to see this.

I totally want to see this. But the reason it's germane to this topic is that in the biz the website is reading this morning, because it was originally done with Cree Mora non dairy creamer powder, which isn't even I don't think available anymore. The entire genre of like, creamer or other powder based fireballs are referred to just as cream auras like that. Anyway, I thought that was interesting information. This dassia Not so much. Which is weird, because usually she loves pyrotechnics. I don't know what it is. Yeah. What is it about it? You don't like it? What you love pyrotechnics. How come you're not excited by the crew? Laura? No, no, no.

Seasonal affected? Whatever.

Yeah, it's weird, because usually any kind of explosion you're in.

Yeah. All right, next week in the studio, we can't,

we can't explain why. Anyway, so other than blowing it up, because I have honestly never consumed in my life a non dairy creamer. I can't really state whether one is good or better than another. And I also noticed looking at websites on this, I looked at other people's reviews of this, that one person's favorite brand is another person's yuck brand. So I think you really have to kind of look at them that said, I did what I recommend anyone do this by the way. So this is going to become all of a sudden this is going to become a pseudo answer that is applicable only to beef and the people who are interested in non dairy creamers to anyone who is trying to figure out anything about any kind of commercial food. If somebody does something even remotely similar to what you want. The good news is that the ingredients are very clearly listed. And the ingredients are typically always available on the internet. So I just went to three people who had good reviews by you know, people who consumed non dairy creamer and looked at the it looked at the ingredients and then looked at why people liked certain ones versus other ones. So Wow. So they could do this on their own. Yeah, but then we'd be out of a job now that we're paid. But here's the thing, so I believe it's kitchen their favorite brand is ripple. Right? And not ripple the like 20 something percent 1970s Like like sweet alcohol products that Fred Sanford from Sanford and Son enjoyed. But ripple the non dairy brand founded by one person and the other person who founded method do you buy those soaps method? No. Anyway, you're familiar with it. Okay. So they make a half and half replacer that in here the ingredients water, sunflower oil, and then ripple teen. Ripple teen is their trademark pea protein right? And then less than 1% of less than sunflower lecithin. Dye sodium phosphate dye potassium phosphates at natural flavor, whatever the hell that is. And gel and Long Now you get the things you want to pay attention to are the p protein the p protein is in there to to substitute for the milk proteins that would otherwise be in there. The sunflower oil is there to substitute for the oil right the butterfat that would be in milk though the less than is there to help bind it the phosphates are probably also there to keep things from from breaking in the same way that they are in. In imitate not imitate imitation cheese and also processed cheese if you look up, look up melting salts are probably there for a similar reason. And Joanne GM, Joanne GM is the one you really want to look at there because it shows up again as does p protein. If you look at so delicious oat milk, they have filtered water, whole oat flour, sunflower oil, ding ding again pea protein thing again, potassium citrate, which is also another you know, what's it called melting salt that you'd use and cheese sodium bicarbonate why that's there. I don't know sea salt natural flavor and get ready for it people gel and gum. Almond Breeze contains almond milk, cane sugar, almond oil, sunflower lecithin, there you are, again, die potassium phosphate, natural flavors, pea protein seasalt. These guys also have guar gum, probably to stop the almond from separating on itself and gel and gum. Right. So guar gum plus gel, and it's actually guar plus Joanne's an interesting system. I've done some research, I don't have time to talk about it now. So anyway, the key point here is they're all lightly stabilizing this stuff with gelatin, which is stable in heat or in cold. They're adding either a citrate or a phosphate, which is probably also helping it from breaking right? And then these guys these three people are all using pea protein, then the question is do they also have oat in it now remember, oat milk, the people who are doing it professionally make it a way that you can't they use proprietary enzyme systems that break down the oat to help it be more milky or almond milk so I would say that I would look at those things as part of the stabilizing that by the way if you want to just buy ripple the people who make ripple make it to be like half and half. I think the people that hate it hate it because it doesn't have a lot of extra sugar so it doesn't actually sweetened well it creams and so they thought it was a one to one replacer for their other non dairy liquid creamers, which are all fairly sweet. If you like it on the sweet side. Take one of the ones that already has some sugar added like almond breeze are so delicious or one of these things. Although I don't know that so delicious necessarily has to have it anyway look into it. Elizabeth writes in about pig milk. How was it? We haven't talked about pig milk in a long time? How long ago was pig milk? I don't know. Remember?

I don't think I've ever heard you say the words pick me up.

He was back in Jackie molecules days. Maybe. On a previous episode, the question of pig milk came up specifically why and I've thought about this a lot by the way. So I have my own reasons. We'll see what you say. Specifically why cow sheep and goat milk are things but not pig milk. I've never heard anything else in the show about it. But I might have missed it over Thanksgiving. I thought to ask my mom who grew up on a dairy farm in central Kentucky and also raised some pigs her thoughts. It would just take too long to milk a pig cows sheeps and goats, sheep and goats typically only have one to three babies at a time. And a few teams that produce plenty of milk. Pigs have whole litters of 10 or so. And many teats each produce a small amount of milk. It takes all day to milk the sow hope that provides some closure on the pig milk issue. It does actually, it's interesting I ever thought about the fact that because they're smaller and there's so many of them, they'd be much harder to do versus ones that are like concentrated and more utter like situation. And that's obviously true. I'd always thought that it was just because they were raising so many, you know pigs and those pigs had to be raised through that, you know, all the way through. They weren't just like catching and killing for veal or something and then like raising solely dairy pigs, and that's why but I like the I like the milking a cow would take all day route. But that said if anyone out there wants to milk a cow and make us some pig milk cheese, the Stasi is first in line to eat the pig milk cheese, right? That's pig milk. You're not going to be pickled cheese. Is someone sent you pig milk cheese. You wouldn't eat it mean you would make me so yeah, but you wouldn't want to not really Are you mad pig no cheese. Or you don't need Yeah, no, you eat cheese? Yeah, yeah. Pig vote cheese. I think a lot of people would want to try pig milk cheese once you know I'm saying anyway, and not that I want you to like, you know, kill the litter of pigs by not allowing them to have their you know, mother's milk. But anyway, Devin writes in about the burger tender for those that don't remember, the burger tender is the device. It's the steam chest that the Connecticut people use to make steam cheeseburgers, which is only a thing in Connecticut. Please don't say that. The people who put a lid over their pans when they're cooking burgers are making Being cheeseburgers that is not the same thing. And that only shows that you have never been to Connecticut and had a steam cheeseburger, right? It's just just what it means if you're like, well I'll put a little over my pin and it steams the burger and the cheese not freaking the same All right, she's not I'm not saying that it doesn't have some steam quality. It doesn't add some steam in his to your burger, but you have not yet had a steam cheeseburger now. I've also said that I am not a gigantic fan. Have you ever go with me to that place us? No, I'm not not a gigantic fan of the steamed burger itself. Although I like it as a thing that exists I'm glad that it exists not to say that I want to have it the steam cheese is amazing. But anyway, the burger tenders spelled b u r g apostrophe R T N D and I believe another apostrophe are two word burger tender is the steam chest that you make the Connecticut style cheat steam cheeseburgers in. Now, Devon writes in regarding this what is the best way to replicate the burger tender experience? Not sure if there is some special steaming Mojo with that device? What a pot with a steamer basket plus mini loaf pan work for just wanting to experience the squeak now you only get the squeak Devin on the president brand. Oh my god, the name of it just went out of my head of the cheese just went on my head. The President brand it's their fake Swiss. It's their fake Swiss. What's it called? President brand, it'll come to me. But but even if you don't get that squeaky one, any of the cheese's is good. And I'll give you some more information on steaming anyway. So yeah, if you don't want to spend $350 on on that, right? You can in fact from them just by the trays and three steaming trays which do work in a basket, it's not quite as good because you tend to get more drip on it unless your steamer is designed well to not have a lot of drip down from the roof of the steamer into the things that you can design so it doesn't happen. But the trays, you can get three trays for 2390 from the burger tender website, which is bu rgrtndr.com. And don't try to search for it. It's impossible to search for it. You just have to go to the website. And they're only sold from this place in Connecticut. But the four I got them I did in fact experiment and you can experiment as well. Just with aluminum foil cups that I've made I will give you the exact dimensions of a proper burger tender tray. It is first of all the real ones are made of old 10 plastic which are nice, they used to be made of steel I think and they switch to old term, which is nice. It's a high temp clear, sanitary plastic because it doesn't burn your hands when you pick it up because it doesn't really conduct heat very well. They are 71 millimeters by 98 millimeters by 25 millimeters deep on the inside. That's at the top so they're slightly they're slightly have a slight draft so slightly smaller at the bottom that's about 2.8 inches by about 3.85 inches by about one inch. The nice ones have a handle eye for cheese, I recommend a two ounce block. And what you want to do is steam the stuff out for like 10 minutes to at least 10 minutes. If you're doing a two ounce like two ounce block of like mild cheddar do to lead steam for like 10 minutes until it totally melts out. First spray like make your trays out of aluminum foil, spray the inside with Pam then put the cheese and steam it out. Let it steam like I say 10 minutes or until it totally levels out. If you use the fake Emmentaler from President that is the that's the Super the super sweet guy. It's never Roderigo madrigal There you go, it's never gonna melt, it's never gonna melt. So but then what you do is is is that with the magical you can almost use it right away but with something that's completely melted out, pull it let it rest for anywhere between 30 seconds to a minute and a half until when you touch it with the top of your finger it just goes back to dough instead of like liquid then quickly dump the little bit of like oily steam water that's in the back in the thing out and then invert and it should come out as kind of one kind of piece. Now if you have a hard thing it's easier to get a spatula into pop it out because aluminum foil obviously he's going to crinkle up but there you go. Yeah, you can give it a shot. That's what I did when I first started but that containers are nice.

Robert from the chat in addition to throwing out the cheese name claims that Ted steamed cheeseburgers would be much better with a better roll roll.

I believe we discussed his one point but they use it's been a while since I've been there. But like a Kaiser style roll, which are rather dry and rather bready Yeah, like you know, like, choose the standard roll of your choice. By the way since Thanksgiving. Dax has gotten on a brioche kick and he just goes to the store now in buys brioche on his own and he doesn't want to toasted he just wants for like he started with all the turkey sandwiches all his turkey sandwiches were on on toasted brioche and Jen my wife J And I thought that he wasn't eating it. So she started eating his brioche. I'm like, Jen, what are you doing? It's taxes, brioche. He's like, Well, he's not even eating it. I'm like, No, he goes like every day to buy more brioche because he's eating so much brioche and remember, in my family, because tax saw the word, he was very young and didn't know what it was. It's called breaffy in my house, because he was like, What is this Bri Archie? I'm like, it's pronounced brioche, or it was. I said my house it's, it's just breaffy

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Florian wrote in from Austria, nice to hear from somebody Austria. And by the way, there's someone else who came, came up with this a couple of weeks ago, Phil Rollo was on the show. And he was talking about we were talking about what a crappy instrument the recorder was. And he was talking about making instruments out of carrots right when I was talking about so Florian wrote and said, I've hope and I hope I got the right email you did because here I am talking about you. In the last week's episode you discussed with Phil brava how to make vegetable flutes. So I guess you might enjoy the first Viennese vegetable orchestra. So if you look at the good music orchestra, which is i guess.org, which is the Viennese vegetable orchestras website. You can check it out by the way for the for the anastasius records. Florian is 38 with two kids. His wife is Italian and does not cook neither does her mother. So that's going back to the Bucha family thing about not every Italian mother is a good cook. So she was mostly fine with whatever I do in the kitchen best greetings from Vienna. So the the first Vietnamese from the first Viennese vegetable orchestra is about 10 people at one time, it was about 12 You can go on their website. And they did a crowdfunding thing like a couple of years ago for their most recent album, which is called the Green album. But you might actually enjoy this instead of crowdfunding. Anastasia ready for it. Crowdfunding, crowdfunding, yeah, they make. So like they make all of their stuff they do. They do a lot of work with cabbage, they do herbs, they have a lot of multi fruit instruments. So like a carrot with the bale of a bell pepper on it to kind of make the thing if you knew all of their stuff is available on their website to kind of listen to, and, you know, I like some of it better than others. It's all kind of in the modern music kind of like realm. So, you know, it's don't expect like a lot of melody, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like exploring the tonal landscape of vegetable music is kind of what they're doing most of the time for the for the three or four tracks that I listened to, but it's all there and you can get your groove on kind of vegetable music there. But I was also sent a rather amazing video. And you'll I'll tell you first it's the person's name. He's on the on the YouTubes is poopsie I believe it's pronounced poopsie PU. P Si. Right. And a cup literally the day that Phil Bravo was talking about carrot flutes. This guy put out a video where he plays all star by Smash Mouth completely on melons. And so the beginning part of his video Have you seen it? Yes, that's the beginning of magazines.

I have a queued up for the minute we finished

Yeah, sure. So they so the first section of it is him creating like different size melon instruments to get the different ranges that he'll need to do Smash Mouth and also he's constantly recording anything that he is doing like scraping melons out or like you know drilling them out with a You know, with his drills, tapping them and so he's getting a lot of the percussion and a lot of a lot of the lower end and Scratchy stuff that way and then layering it presumably in Pro Tools and like this and then does the entire Smash Mouth all star just just melon just just Mellon. And I was like wow this is pretty good. And then I went back and looked at his old video so he starts it's you should start at the maybe at the beginning of his career as a as a fruit and veg musician. He starts by covering futures. Mask off with you know that song, Matt? I do not Percocet, Molly. Percocet, Percocet. Molly, Percocet. Are you familiar with future? No, I

don't live in the future. Okay.

But you know, the future is I'm aware that there is a person in future. Okay, but anyway, so first cover, he does his that but he completely cheats. So he's doing I think mainly carrots, right. But he also plays bass in it. So just Just an FYI. poopsie. What he does, I think for a living is make Ocarina is which is an instrument that I'm not really familiar with. And he said it a quote in his first thing my Ocarina is are like my children, which is kind of a weird end, he says that you can get in touch with him and he'll make Ocarina is with you. So I don't know whether this is some sort of weird, I don't know what it is. But anyway, so I was a little bit like I get it future. That's cool. But you're playing bass and I'd already seen Smash Mouth. But then I have to say he moved on from that to a sweet potato version of todos Africa, which is amazing. The sweet sweet potato Africa is amazing. So you have to see that and then go see Smash Mouth but the the innovation in Smash Mouth that makes it I think, super good is that he takes two watermelons and joins them together to get a very low note so that he can do the lower notes in Smash Mouth the bass notes strictly on watermelon, so worth a watch. So where do you got their stars? What just came in? This is from Capri Sun. What are we what do we got? Well,

it was very wet. When he dropped this off. It's

skinny, he would come and say hello. He really wants to remain anonymous is Oh, got a clam broth house t shirt for all of you that don't know, the clam broth house was a restaurant in in New Jersey. And they had a sign that said with a big hand it pointed down and it's like clam broth, right it clam broth. You gotta get a good picture that afterwards and and so the restaurant sadly went out of business but the way they used to have it as you'd walk in to the launch longshoreman from the Jersey waterfront used to go work there and they would just have an ever flowing fountain of clam broth. And you know, in addition, you buy drinks, but you just put your cup onto the clam broth fountain to get clam broth and Jack shrimp from existing conditions. and I were like, we're gonna do clam broth at the existing conditions. And my partner Don was like, no, no, you won't. And we're like clam broth house. He's like now and I was like, Yo, clam broth. Ready. And I made the the hand with the pointing down and he's like, double No, but I appreciate the clam broth house t shirt. Lady. Oh, Anastasia has a hammer dripping blood. Now let me ask you a question. Because she's the hammer. Let me ask you a question. What have you struck with the hammer? That is causing it to be bloody? I think I know. But what do you think?

I mean, I think we know.

Then you got this. But what is it semolina right now. Oh, all right. We have Bob's Red Mill semolina, by the way, I don't know why they hate us. But they don't they don't do our show anymore. But it's 32% hydration. Hand mix with water rest. 30 minutes. extrude them. I can't read what this says. Oh, 408 with a meat grinder with an hour the can't read the dial number on it. Anyway. Cool. I've never tried the meat grinder technique. Although Johnny Hunter swears by it. By the way there. He's closing the underground butcher shop. He's still going to do wholesale but anyway, have talked to Johnny. Thanks for the shirts. Thanks for the pasta. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. By the way, the album of the Viennese vegetable orchestra that I enjoyed the most was onion noise. One word onion noise like that. And you know, is it I'm sure everyone's already turned us off so they can go listen to smash mouth.

Yeah, that's also one way

just pause the pause

immediately. Yeah. Coming in from it doesn't say to say who is Riley? I want to start by thanking you for all the great products and content you've released over the years. I've learned so much from you and love all the booker index products. My Black Friday spins has just arrived. Great. I'm emailing you because I recently touched on a topic I didn't realize was so controversial that whether or not you should add butter to a vacuum bag when you're cooking a steak Suvi Do you have an opinion on this? But you know I do because you quoted anyway, I conducted a taste test experiment and wrote up a blog post that outlines the current state of public opinions including an article from yours and a cooking issues blog as well as my results let me know if you have any feedback or comments that you would like me to add on your behalf Okay, so the controversy I went and looked at the your blog post by the way can we say what it is what I don't have what it is I saw it on the on the Instagram but I anyway, so the controversy one the question people is should you put butter in the bag and I'm going to give my opinion after every with the theoretical controversy is Kenji Lopez alt says he doesn't suggest adding fat, either butter or olive oil to the bag and cooking steaks cvwd He theorized that added fat was absorbing fat soluble flavor compounds from the meat and then being poured down the drain with the bag juice slash butter. I just don't think I read that. And I completely disagree. I don't think he tasted the butter after it came out or did any side by side tastes. That's just that's just theory. To share steps and suggested adding butter and olive oil to the bag was steaks and several other recipes and guides. Dave Arnold, that's me has previously suggested putting butter in the bag and cooking cvwd Yes, Modernist Cuisine adds to it, ie fat to their soothing steak recipe. little overboard. I guess the idea is beef on beef. Please don't add. And I'm gonna talk about this in a minute. Don't add dry aged fat to the bag unless you want the whole thing to taste like dry aged fat. Okay, let me know that Soviet everything published a video to YouTube where they did a blind test taste test on a single person who prefer the steak without the butter. There is no such there is no taste test on on one, one. Riley. Okay. And then. And then from your website from your test, you said in order to reduce the number of variables and potential biases or inaccuracies, I chose a very simple preparation method and started with four New York Strip steaks that were purchased together, etc, etc, etc, etc. A slice. And I'll give you my example on it. I think like you can use position here I think is relatively untenable. That's just kind of a theoretical position. As I've said before, I had the advantage of cooking the same test over and over again, when I was teaching low temps who vetoed the French culinary for you know, dozens of people at a time, dozens of times, which was kind of you know, good. My thing about why add butter or fat to the bag? Well, the primary reason is because I'm not using a vacuum machine. Okay, so if I'm not using a vacuum machine, and I'm using, let's say even say, let's say was using vacuum, she will do two routes, let's say I am not using a vacuum machine, well, I want the bag to be in close contact with the meat, right, because that's how I'm going to make sure that I get good heat transfer. That's how I'm going to get rid of air in the bag so that I'm not having it like have like a little pocket that doesn't have good contact or where there's air in contact with, I need something to help take up the space in the bag. Because there I don't have a vacuum where I can just suck all of the air out. So you need some sort of something to take up space in the bag right to help mold around the product. Now, you shouldn't use liquid because have you made broth before stars you've made broth, right? Water 100% Leeches the flavor out of the meat. And if you have excess water, even if it's not leaching the flavor the meat and this isn't a theory, I can tell you this for sure the meat ends up tasting more poached more like pot of food, and then it does as though it was done in a dry cooking manner. So you don't want to add typically liquid to a bag unless you want it to taste more like a brace, right? Even on something that you're cooking low like a steak thing. It's just I don't think it's optimal. Okay. Sometimes it's only like a sausage, you can cook in a very, very highly flavored broth. And I've run some tests of cooking even meats in very highly flavored bras when I call equilibrium broths. So like hot dog water on the street is an equilibrium HOT, HOT DOG broth, where the broth tastes exactly as much like a hot dog as the hot dog does. And so soaking a hot dog in it does not change its flavor at all. But the vast majority of liquids that you add aren't like that to a bag, I'm just telling you they're not. So in general, you don't want to use liquid that is water based you want to use a fat. Now when you're sucking a vacuum, right so the liquid the fat is there for that reason, right to take up space in the bag. In a vacuum scenario. If you don't have any liquid and you're just backing let's say a steak, the sides of the steak are going to get crushed into a pillow shape right or whatever you're choosing. Now sometimes, like with a duck breast, this is fine. You let it crush and then you mold it on a flat surface so that the skin side is flat so that when you do, you're later finished when you sear it after you do your low temping, right? Like it's flat because you molded it flat. But it's very hard on something like a steak to get it to look nice unless you put something in the bag. And then you get those horrible kind of Suvi looking steaks that look all Angular and relatively bad even after they're cooked. So in those scenarios, you want to use a fat just to take up space in the bag, so that the bag has somewhere to go without crashing your meat. Now, there you want to use a liquid fat, because in a liquid fat, it will, illiquid fat will allow it to conform to the bag shape, right? Very easily, but a saw it whereas a solid fat won't. And if used a warm solid fat, then you'd have to be vacuuming a meat that was not cold. And as we all know, you need your meat to be very cold if you're going to vacuum it because all hell is gonna break loose because it will boil off a lot of the water, etc, etc. A complete nightmare. Now, the flavor transfer off of the fat that you put into the bag is minimal. Now the exceptions to this are if you use a highlight, so butter, I mean sorry, people I love butter and the flavor of butter. But plain butter that hasn't been brown or anything is has good flavor. But it's a relatively light flavor. So when you pull a steak out, and you sear the ever loving crap out of it in a pan or with a sizzle with a broiler or an a grill, you're burning, you're torching off a lot of that a lot of that butter, so maybe you would notice it, maybe it not. But in general, I serve my steaks with olive oil poured over the top of them. And the olive oil is the primary flavor of oil that I get. If you have a highly flavored or rancid oil, a very tiny amount of that on the surface of the meat is enough to transfer the flavor. And so you want to avoid it, right. So certain things can be tasted in very small concentrations, even if they're just on the surface, right? And so for I would stay away from those oils unless you want those flavors. And especially that goes for fish. So a lot of highly flavored olive oils. I don't like the flavor of them low tempt with fish, right. So they're all us kind of a more neutral oil. And I noticed in your tests, you were searing in canola, which is now a fairly neutral flavored oil, but back in the day before they could properly deodorize it was I think my least favorite oil. Everyone touted it for health but I thought it was nasty. I couldn't smell anything or taste anything was made with lower end canola oil. This stuff doesn't have a bad taste anymore, so it's fine. But anyway, that's my feelings on that on that subject. And by the stars. Have I done yet? chinchilla rabbits the fur Deluxe? For classics in the field? I don't think so. Okay, so I'll do that next year because everyone needs to know how to raise chinchilla rabbits, because you can raise them either for fur or for meat. Do you like eating rabbits and stuff? Yeah. What is it you like about eating rabbits? You're good. Really? I kinda like rabbits. What's your favorite style of rap? Do you like like a frequency like, cat tutorial in California? So like that was more like a rose breath? I don't know. What about Well, Matt, you don't eat rabbit not eat rabbit? I don't know. I like rabbit. I don't cook it a lot. Now we'll get into I'll talk more about clicking rabbits next week when I thought I should do a fish based classics in the field if we're going to have the salmon people here. Yeah. Anyway. So for this week, I'm going to do for this week's failure. We'll do a quick one because I know that we have to scoot out of here.