Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This episode is brought to you by fair kitchens, learn about the fair kitchens code and join the movement at fair kitchens.com.

This week on mountain three were exploring food for the eyes how the art and culinary worlds collide.

incredibly elaborate. It's a feast for the eyes of banquet dinner with garnished ham Turkey and an array of accompaniments

we shot Baganz with like paint dripping off of them with the blue white and red from the French flag. The student tells me they said the camera eats first. And it's so true. It's so true.

Tune in to meet in three Hrn weekly food news roundup wherever you listen to podcasts

Hello, this is Dave Arnold your host of cooking issues coming to you live from almost 12 to about one from join us usually Anastasia the hammer Lopez and Matt in the booth. Special guests right now. Rebecca P The Boondock blur Are you going to sing your own theme song?

No, you're gonna

Leto

your own theme song.

Leto sing Dave sings all of his own.

You're the only one who's allowed to sing your own theme song. Everyone else needs someone else.

Oh by the way, we're gonna have a minute special guest chef kid Willie from Lady to house so I was trying on the way over to somehow do a lady like Lady is a tramp mashup and the rhymes are real hard. The best I could come up with was hates California too cold for a blouse. That's why she is the lady.

No, no.

That needs some work shopping is too

airy or a blouse was to

damp blouse feminist

white blouse you can't use the word brown say blouse Nobody

wears blouse

I think I think if she's wearing the blouse it's better.

No who wears blouses anymore?

Oh no. Oh, the Stasi is only she either jumpers or dresses, the only to fill forms and clothing that Anastasia wears or jumpers and dresses and

leggings and sweatpants.

Like what do you wear? Sweatpants goes on your bottoms

under yeah with the thermal.

Alright, well you guys come up with better rhymes for that. But I think that's the songs

no blouse. Yeah.

Oh yeah, here she is. Welcome, Chef. So let keep going. Get a get her seat here. Yes, your phones on.

Are you gonna sing this song for her? No. I

said the Ryan was no good. We'll work on it. We'll do it later. So well while you're getting settled first of all, how you doing?

Good. How are you?

I didn't do sorry. I didn't do my normal pleasantries, Anastasia, anything interesting happened to you last week? Wait for it.

Yeah. Really, really?

Anything you want to talk about on the air? No, no, that was that's our normal pleasant treat. And then I do the same with Matt. Not anything interesting happened?

No, I just wanna hear from Jeff.

All right. Well, so the Stasi wants me to tell his story. Let's talk to Kate. Kate for a minute first. Okay, Kate, how you doing? I'm doing great. Doing well. So for those of you that don't know, Shane, do the quick, quick. I know we're fellow French Culinary Institute. Pete. Yes. From back in the day. Currently, you're from Detroit and currently, you know, Chef extraordinaire, in Detroit. But you had a long road to get back to Detroit. Right? Yeah, you want to do this quick or you want like me to make up some stuff.

I could do it quick. You know, New York. Were actually you were my teacher and cvwd cooking, which that's like, you know, when I tell people that in Detroit, I don't know if everyone knows how like geeked out people are Detroit over David associa. So super exciting. We like

Detroit, Detroit's awesome. It is you know, we'll talk about that in a minute. But talk about you for a minute.

Yeah. So, um, New York, Chicago, Copenhagen, unexpectedly back in Detroit and thinking, you know, when I left 10 years before that, I was never, you know, as a chef, I was like, Oh, I don't know if there's a food scene here and completely fell in love and then decided I wanted a restaurant or restaurants now. Yeah, that's about it.

Nice. Well, the also I read that you worked for Wolfgang Puck

in Chicago. Yes.

What was that? What's he like?

Wow, he's actually really cool. He's very, you know, I mean, he is very much what he appears like on TV. He's very excited about the food, right? Like he just can't stop talking about how his three year old loves his smoked salmon pizza.

What is he anyways? He'll zation Is he part of the association mafia? What is his?

Austrian? Austrian? Yeah, yeah, not sure. Yeah, I believe is Austria.

Cool. All right. So he was alright. I've always wondered, like, he's like one of these enigmatic figures to me that I've never, I've never met the guy.

Well, also by that time, so I don't even remember what year that was. 22,008, something like that. There were a few people between us. So it wasn't like a directly report. You know, he's out in LA, whatever. But yeah, he was great.

So then you go back to Detroit. And you were there for a while before he opened at the house? Right. A couple of years. Yes. Correct.

Um, so lady, the house opened in 2017. And I moved back in 2010. Why don't

you want to talk about the conflict? So the lady of the house, like you want to what do you want to talk about? Like, we've missed ASEAN, I went there. And you had a great kind of charity event? What's the name of that charity that you sell? Classic? I think we should do that in New York that I mentioned this. Yeah. I think you should come to New York. When you are in New York, by the way, you're here for a beard House event, right? Yes. Do you need to push that? Or do you not need to push it?

I think it's sold out right back

to late people. Anyway, like, the beard house is so weird. For those of you that don't know, I don't know, for those of you that like don't come to New York and aren't actually plugged into because there are different chef communities. You know what I mean? Like, but definitely a nationwide chef communities, that community is plugged into this whole kind of beard house. Not going to say cult, because that gives it kind of a bad ring, but they make you pay for all your own ingredients. They used to I don't know if they still do

to change that. Oh, really?

Is that the case used

to be okay, so it seems like it's much different. It used to be you paid your own way and your own ingredients. They sold tickets because it was a chair is a charity. Right? And so everyone was always like, Yeah, I'd love to do it. Oh, now I gotta pay for it. You know what I mean? But now it's different. Like you're Yeah, this does covered last night Exactly. In the

cooks get really excited. I mean, so we did one two years ago, and brought some of our team and we have one of them coming back with us. But you know, it's exciting when cooking with a beard house for them. You know,

by the way, you're cooking in his kitchen, you're cooking, and his kitchen sucks.

It's time

it's bad kitchen. First of all, for those of you I've said this a million times, James Beard. I have all of those books beard on pasta beard on bread beard on whatever beard. But it's like, and maybe someday we'll do James Beard classics in the field someday, but because I guess I've read them all. He had some terrible opinions about things. Yeah. Terrible. He liked electric ranges.

Oh, that's news to me. Actually.

Yeah, he wrote, I like electrical. I'm paraphrasing. I like electric ranges. Because I did his kids book. I'm using my crayon. I'm using my crayon right In a fire, yeah, fire. Hi, Ashley Booker. My son Booker, his very first words were hot because we had all exposed like hot stuff in the in the loft at the time when he was born when he started kind of crawling and walking around very first word. Damn skippy. Anyway, but you know, because like if your kid shows up if you're wheeling your kid in the stroller, and there's a giant burn mark across their face where they leaned into a steam pipe that's on you.

Yeah, you're not invited back? Yeah.

You're on your family.

Oh, it's like I was like, wait, wait, I just have to say this people, if you are a woman do not make comments to fathers pushing kids in strollers about how they should have shoes on how they're wet. Like, the dad can handle pushing the kid around in the stroller and the kids waterproof.

Is this in the middle of winter? Well,

it's like, I mean, maybe it's different now. But like 18, you know, 18 years ago when I was pushing book around in strollers like, because like I was the guy like Jen was my wife was working. And I was, you know, I had the more flexible job. So I was the guy at home, in the crazy loft, trying to stop my kid from getting burned against hot things. And every single woman on the street thinks that this is the first time you've pushed your kid around the city in a stroller or carry them or fed them or our Mike. Mike, I appreciate that. You're trying to help but you need to shut up.

Sounds really hard for you, Dave.

I'll say it's like, you know, whatever.

Before we move on, can we just talk about the shower situation at the beard house?

I did not use the restroom. I don't use I consider that a public restroom. So I've never used it.

But you've never even been inside to look now. It's incredible. Okay. It was an

outdoor shower. Like glass covering that area. And so all of his neighbors would see him showering nude bit of time.

Oh, I thought it changes. That part's amazing. Also the meat entirely mirrored bathroom. Yes. And bedroom.

He's a creep. All right, he also now I think we can all agree here. I've said this a million times. I'll say it one more time cases the first time you're tuning in. He only liked canned sardines. did not like fresh sardines. Now, that's true. I love canned sardines. Because they taste good. But fresh sardines are one of the best things ever. Delicious. Maybe it's because he couldn't get enough heat on his electric stove. I think they swapped out his actual range there. Yeah, it's on the range. Yeah, there's gas now. Yeah. Yeah. I think it used to be those just

he's rolling over in his grave. Yeah.

Trying to trying to make it over in his grave. His glass coffin grave. Anyway, gross story. Alright, so I mean, I promise sorry. I promised that I promised that I would tell this growth story last week before I knew that you were going to be on. But before I tell the growth story, I have something else to lead into it. So we're gonna play a little game of and you can you know, Rebecca, and Kate, you can play Matt, you can play here. It's called. He's wrong. She's wrong. Both wrong. No. All right. All right. Ready? So this leads into the story. So, so so? Yeah.

Without name so that

she may or may not be Anastasia Yes. And they may or may or may not be.

So minutes ago, not let that affect our judgment may or

may not have been this morning. So and you know what, feel free to weigh in people. So I've been and this is how it ties in. So I've been working for the last week or so on the design drawings for the Sears all v eight which is the kind of high powered broiler attachment that we're going to make this you know, like gonna be like, you know, it's 100,000 BTUs in a space like this big and it's going to be on a timer so it just it comes on when you need it and then clicks off of the timer so you can take it on the go with you. So you could have like a deck boiler on the go. Wow, it's gonna be nice. So our direct competitors something called the auto while grill, but so we're gonna have to do some testing. But anyway, we're excited because they're like, oh, it takes three minutes to heat up in like three minutes who's got three minutes 15 seconds. Now like It's like remember like Krispy Kreme. Anyway, so I'm working on it. I've been working on it. I get a finally you know, I do CAD which is the 3d drawings. And so I have every single part of this and by the way, if any of you ever need to make something like a physical object, and you're gonna get it manufactured and it takes us it's taken us years to figure it out, like how much work you need to do before you approach someone to do it. Because if you don't, if you do too much work, they're like, I can't do that, and you've wasted all that work. But if you don't do enough work, they provide you with an initial design idea. And once you have been provided with initial design idea, it never changes. And this is goes this also goes with, you know, design in architecture, exhibition design, restaurant design, menu design, anytime you have multiple people involved. When you're in a meeting, I just highly recommend and everyone hates me for this in meetings. But this is this is the God's truth. People are like, but it's just a dummy. It's just there. You don't need to worry, we could change it later. It will never change later people like if someone says, Don't worry, it's just there to kind of show you what it could be. But it could change later, it will never change. And so whether it's the shape of the past, whether it's the structure of the menu, whether it's whatever it is, once it's just been dummied in it's there for good so fight early. I mean, how many times you deal with that with with like, you know, your kitchen consultants here, your architects, I mean,

oh, all the time, just like oh, don't worry, like, well, you know, the water is gonna get to this temperature. Just don't worry. We'll take care of it later. You know?

Yeah. And because people, people like are like, Don't get bogged down in the minutia. Dave, I'm like, Okay, I won't, then don't put the dummy. Don't dummy it at all. Just take it out of this discussion. So we're not even discussing it. And I'll happily deal with this minutiae later, but I will not allow that to remain in as a dummy. And it becomes a hard fact in my life later, because this is not something that's happened to me eight or 12 times this has happened to me like dozens and dozens of times, every time yeah, in every aspect in every field of my life. But anyway, so I'm designing away. And so this morning, I finished a set of drawings 36 inch by 24 inch, like a one full blueprints completely, like with cutaway views, with like, you know, all of the dimensions on it. An entire building material down to the number of set screws and their size and materials. They're made out of like an entire thing. PDF. Mr. Garcia this morning sends me and she she she, she sends me a foreword affords me a message from a listener about yeast, which maybe we'll get to later about pitching yeast. You like pitching you do you do a lot of yeast yeast and sourdough baking? We do Yeah, so then I'll let you answer I have my idea and then we'll save a little talk about it. So she sends me this forwards me this message

because usually I send him the questions beforehand this is true on a Word

doc usually 10pm The night before roughly between 10 and 12 night before yeah and then and by the way for those of you that don't want actually want to know the nuts and bolts here's how it works she says something it says radio subject no subject radio text yo for like eight years radio yo so it's like

yeah, anyway it's on a Word documents or anything that comes in after midnight or one or wherever whenever I send it I'll just forward the question directly so that he knows to add it on to the

thing and she says like forward radio or something like that. So she does that about this he's question about this yeast question and then I'm like I'm like trying because I want to get her roughly on time

so I'm also getting ready

typing typing typing I finally like you know I get the last dimensions in like the program I'm using as being a real PHP no pain in the behind on like doing this specific cutaway exactly the way I want I finally get it. I go save as PDF. The Stasi is forward is there so I just hit Reply to Anastasia right on it. I can supply the full CAD files no

series that here's what I've been working on. Get

it Get it? Here's what I've been working on. Yeah, he said this guy, this guy said here's what I've been working on I can supply full Kads if necessary, I still need to dimension out the I can still dimension out for them the gas orifice and the nozzles etc etc. Yeah. attached this no DF which is the complete I can show you guys that just says

here's PDM I've been working on I can send them the actual CAD as well as do a more detailed showing the nozzles air intake gas orifice. So I read here's a PDF I've been working on in relation to the yeast guy, right because it's a direct answer to this yeast question. And I'm like, Why can't Dave just copy the yeast guy instead of writing it to me? So forward so I'm like, forward I I'm trying to get out the door and I for the email to the east guy. Dave calls me he's like I saw you I'm you missed your call or whatever. Did you see what I was working on? And I was like, Yeah, I'm for the F guy What do you Yeah, like what?

So she forwarded the entire she forwarded the entire design schematic of the entire unit which came we look at the level of detail we're talking here. I mean, forwards it this. So yeah. And then we start yelling at each other she's like who just forwards

on an email that's unrelated?

Respond, email an email.

Thing. Totally. There was something in my head that was likely patent for it. Yeah, there was something in my head that went like CAD drawings for a yeast making, like, that's weird. Why would it and I was like, it's all nerdy. So she

starts yelling at me. She's like, who does? Oh, she's like, who does that? I'm like, Yeah, who does that? Who doesn't read what they're doing? And then we both

just start screaming the F word.

I think so listeners can really know what we're talking about. You should send me the PDF and I'll post.

Yeah, that'd be smart. That's the good call. Anyway, so that's a game of he's wrong. She's wrong. Both wrong.

I believe the mutual the mutual F word was the right call.

Yes. Yeah, at that point. So for those of you that don't know why, you know, we're not monsters. At that point. We were just enjoying our lives.

That Oh, yeah. Wasn't

fu is more like we're both screaming F max.

Is there like a hit out on that?

guy? And he was like, deleted, deleted, deleted

for the highest bidder? Does he know about this, but you've now told all the listeners, all they need to do can now understand that this is out there in the world?

Well, no, as long as he deleted it is fine. Well,

okay, let me just point out here that this is like the perfect example of things that happen all the time, both, like reply to a random email, putting really important documents attached to it, and then you are annoyed through and you instinctually forwarded along without even reading what's attached.

Right? Well, I mean, I'm gonna file that particular thing under, like, we both know each other. Like, why don't we learn? Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. It's really your point.

You know, if this is the first time this Stasi had dealt with me, or the first time I dealt with her, I'd be like, You know what, like, we overpass or anybody. I love it so much. All right. So now that's the that's what I was working on. So as I said before, like I have some certain issues, many, one of those issues is is that once I go into a project, and I'm sure you're probably like this to Kate, like, when you're in something you're in it like time can spool away. Like I don't I don't pay attention to like, have I eaten breakfast? have I eaten lunch? Is the building on fire? I'm just like, on what I'm on what I'm

doing. You're really into it? Yeah,

so Rebecca is quoting a confessions. Okay. I won't tell you what her references then. Because our lawyer Oh, that was another classic. That is not safe for family.

I can just say quickly, all right, accidentally forward a naked photo Dave on a horse or pen

was to clear Photoshop. It was not a naked picture of me on a horse. It is not me if you as my head on some models body. And

I've just the six. Can

I have that one on the show? And

I will also say no, Jenna tail, franks and beans, franks and beans. Not even But

although the whole point was that there was none. But

this is not appropriate for the show, and neither was it appropriate to send to our patent lawyer. And that's the day people that Anastasia learned how to manipulate group tests. Better, okay. Okay. So anyway, so I get deep into it. So you know what I was into because I just told you, I was doing this, here's all VA. Alright. And by the way, it looks kind of like a VA engine, right? It's got that kind of overhead overhead cam action Cymatics for that. Okay, so, also my kids were home from school. And so I was like, you know, you're going to walk the dogs, right? Because that's the deal. If they're home from school, they don't have school, they walk the dogs otherwise in the morning I walked the dogs, okay, so I go to DAX and I say, Dax walk the dogs, right? This is before I go into the keyhole, I like walk the dogs. And then I go back to the computer and I start like doing my my computing stuff. And that was I told him at like 830 in the morning. So then all of a sudden, around 11 I hear a noise. And it kind of because I was had kind of a natural break, I hear a noise which I normally wouldn't hear. And it's my robotic vacuum. I have a robotic vacuum that goes around the house and robotically vacuums everything up. Its name is Xiaomi. That's the name of the company anyway. So it's a you know, it's in decent robotic vacuum. And I hear it and I'm like, oh, did they walk the dogs? So I go over to DAX, who's still, you know, murdering people on his ex box, which is, you know, as he does, and I'm like, what the dogs like that. And so he like, said, Fine, fine, goes and walks the dogs. He takes the dogs out and I'm just sitting down to go back into another deep hole of work, right? And you know me, I'm here in me, which is the robotic vacuum. And I'm like, What's this well? Oh my God. And so I run over and the robotic vacuum NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW had robotically vacuumed into the kids bathroom where now one of my dogs is big that dog can hold stuff forever. One of my dogs is only 20 pounds, and so it can't hold it from 7pm the night before until like 1115 In the morning the next day. And Watson the small one so once Watson goes into the bathroom, he's like, I can't hold it anymore blast and he pees. He's like might as well poop pees improves, thankfully on the tile in the bathroom, right? Oh no. I'm like, But Xiaomi doesn't know from pee and poop. Oh, so Xiaomi runs over with the brushes but inhales the pee in the poop. And then it just pee and poop fumes out of its filter. And easily fills the house with dog poop smell

like hot to write to my kids.

No hot sprayed dog pee and poop smell. And then I was just like so I just hit stop. Shut the door and walked away. For like, Attorney a good oh, it would you too. It would take me a good It took me a good five minutes to be like so then, Dax comes home. And I'm like, guess what? So then I'm like, You're doing the initial clean. So like I flipped Xiaomi completely disassemble, we start scrubbing it sterilizing it. Like boiling it. Like all the things we need to do like trying to get this electronic battery powered poop infiltrated monstrosity back into like, you know, vacuuming shape again. And then DAX. It turns out he has all these toilet. All these paper towels that he's using to clean right? But he can't find a trash bag because we don't. He can't find a trash bag. So I'm like, I see him throw one in the toilet. I'm like, don't throw that in the toilet. You're gonna clog the toilet. He's like, Oops. And then I look at the toilet and the toilet is full of paper towels. So then I had another half hour of plunging the toilet to try to get the goddang paper towels down the vet. Oh, I mean, yes. Having a robotic vacuum and two dogs in New York First world problems but unpleasant. Unpleasant nonetheless.

Did you get an eye infection from like the fumes of poop?

I didn't know though. I want you guys all to know that when you smell poop, it is actual poop molecules that are hitting your nose. No, no. And your eyes always wanting to make a little t shirt for houseflies and say the last place I landed was poop.

Is it same with a fart?

What is it? Yeah, I mean, it's not that it's not it's not the bacteria aren't hitting you it's the volatile Moloch I mean, like maybe it is I mean, I don't know how diaphanous your your garments are.

This feels like a great place to go break.

I thought we wanted to do the classics in the field before break after break. Here we go. We'll be right back with Kate Williams cooking issues

This episode is brought to you by fair kitchens. The food service industry faces a challenge. More people are eating out yet restaurants are Losing talent. Why is this research by fair kitchens reveals a serious well being issue within professional kitchens. 74% of chefs are sleep deprived to the point of exhaustion. 63% of chefs feel depressed, and more than half feel pushed to the breaking point. This can't be ignored. Fair kitchens is a movement based on the belief that a positive kitchen culture makes for a healthier business. By taking the pledge to be a fair kitchen, they'll provide you with free information, tools and resources to help you take action towards making your restaurant more stable, productive and happy, which positively affects the guest experience. It's time to act now. Learn about the fair kitchens code and join the movement at fair kitchens.com. Are we back? Oh, sorry. That was yeah, yes,

we are back. So I have been told by Matt, in no uncertain terms that the new structure of the show is we will actually go to break. That will happen. And then when we come back, it's time for classics. So that's what we're gonna do. And what year were you at? Sei?

2006. Six, and

you see you like, when did you when did you start cooking in life like me? Like, like, when did you become more serious about cooking? We always serious about them? No,

I took a cooking class in high school and then just never stopped. That's not it's not a romantic story. But I just, you know, I was bit by the bug and then just kept clicking. Yeah, so 15 and professionally 18.

Oh, nice. All right. So, I mean, I'm trying to get a handle for like, when, like, you know, people became aware of certain things. But, you know, when I was a kid, I used to break into my mom's cook my breaking but like, go take all my mom's cookbooks read them. And like, you know, cook by myself, because I was home alone a lot. Sure. I mean, and so I would not in the Macaulay Culkin sense. But you know, I'm alone a lot. And so that's when I really started kind of cooking things that I probably shouldn't have been cooking on my own. But then, in college, I would I like would buy like, I would buy portable ovens and bake bread in my dorm room. I'm weird do anyways. But like, after I graduated college is when I got kind of seriously bitten by the bug of serious home cooking. I mean, which is by the way, by the way, different from restaurant cooking. Let's just everyone needs to be clear on this. You could you could be a fantastic chef and do almost no home cooking ever. Not even like home cooking. Not eating it. But doing it you know what I mean? And likewise, you can be one of the you know, great home cooks, and be a garbage chef. Guard. Would you agree with this? Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the great disservice is that's been done to us as a food culture. As a country in our food culture is this kind of destruction of cook as being something that is honorable, everyone wants to be chef at home? I'm like, No, you don't you know what I mean? Like, that ain't no, no, you don't? You don't mean? No, no one at home actually actually likes to cook that way. You know what I mean? Right? Yeah, you know, you know, we all have, like the precepts you have to do like, all the way. So like, let me tell you something, people, let's say, let me give you a word of advice. If you're at home, and a professional chef comes over to dinner, right? Like a line cook, whatever, they come over to dinner, right? Especially a line cook. And you're trying to make something and they say, Well, if you're lucky, they won't ask for help. Because what's gonna happen is they're gonna ask for help. And you're gonna say, Yeah, cut some onions. And so what they will do is take your entire bag of onions, and cut them instantly into a database. I only needed one on you. Because that's not the way that cooks think you know what I mean? They're like, I'm going to take this thing that you have handed me and break the whole thing down, because it's a different mentality. You know what I mean? Anyway, and so they're like, Don't worry, you'll use it. You'll use it in the next issue. Cook in like 10 minutes when we fire that. Oh, you're not firing anything else tonight. Oh, so it's like a different, different mindset. But firing like you don't use that at home? No, yeah. Yeah. If you haven't fired yet at home, you're toast. And this, by the way, is why I think like low temp work it like cvwd work is good. In, in home, because even if you're doing relatively simple thing, it's very simple things. It's really hard to get a dinner to come together at once. Especially if you want to do stuff that doesn't sit around a long time. It's like if you're smart, which I never am, you cook something that can sit around all day without going bad lasagna, you know what I mean? It's like, hey, lasagna, eggplant, parm, great. You know what I mean? You know, finish it at noon. It's still great at eight. You know what I mean? It's like, who cares? No, it's always got to be the steak or whatever, for stuff like that. That's why sushi is Such a lifesaver, because it allows you to get all the components of your crap together, and then just bang fire that stuff at the end of the day out. Anyway, that's not what I'm talking about. So I became very interested in home cooking. Right after college, I graduated college in 93. And in 93, there was an internet ish, but it didn't have pictures on it. So like, if you wanted to get a picture on the internet in the 90s, in the early, early, early, early 90s, you join what's called a youth group. And then you had like a byte. It's called a binary file. And that binary file was almost like a Word document. And then you loaded that into another program that would then convert that back into a picture. So you're like, oh, they posted a picture. So wait

a minute, because you lost your connection. And then you get it. And then like, you're like, oh, that's how you pick that one phone? Yeah. Who picked up? Yeah, anyway. So that's the way the internet used to work. So there was no Internet, there was no YouTube, there was almost there's nothing like that the cookbooks that were available at the time, were very good, but they didn't actually even the ones done by professional cooks didn't give you kind of cool tricks and tips that a professional might know for home and they weren't, they didn't really fill this niche outcomes in 1993, cooks, illustrated magazine, cooks illustrated I was I got the full charter year 1993, which was the first year so Chris Kimball, founded cooks illustrated, he founded cooks magazine, which folded in I guess, The Late Late 80s, and sold that to Conde Nast. When they folded, he somehow acquired the rights to use the word cooks again, founded cooks, illustrated now cooks illustrated, interesting thing about it, it many interesting things about it, but it came out every two months, it was in black and white. So it wasn't, you know, have the kind of, you know, bone bone app or gourmet variety of kind of glossy mag. It did not have any advertisements in it. And still doesn't, I guess, no advertisements. And it had these things in it that I had never seen in a magazine before. And I had a very kind of unique attitude. So it had me the first ones a lie had notes from readers, there's no readers, because this sucker hadn't started yet. Everyone always got a lie a little bit, you know what I mean? But it had the section on quick tips that was kind of like the YouTube of its day, like showed you how to do

Oh, I'm very familiar. Yeah, I had a subscription for years. Yeah.

And so you can go and they really started and we talked about the man who ate everything before, but they really started the whole idea of, I'm going to take a recipe and run it down into the ground and tested 18 different ways, and tell you how things work. They hired a lot of professionals to do things that they were very good at. So there's an extremely young Bobby Flay in here. There's a bunch of kind of well known, well known people. And some of the recipes are still the recipes I use to this day, their muffin recipe from 1993 and see who wrote it because I don't remember, but I'll give her a shout out. But that's when I learned because like back in the day when you bought them, you know when you buy a muffin, you know, when you make a muffin at home, it's a sad little affair. And then when you buy a professional one, it's blasted over its cap and has that giant cap that everyone's the best part of every muffin. Well, I didn't learn how to do that until I read. Oh, it's different one. I didn't learn how to do that until I read. Oh, it's the same person. Marcy Goldman wherever you are. You're a freaking genius. I don't know you. But I've been making your muffins and you're one dough many cookies sugar cookie recipe from the 1993 Cook's Illustrated for decades now. And you, you Marcy are a genius. So she's the one who's like you're not making your dough thick enough. You're bad or thick enough you're not putting it enough of it into the cup, let it flow over. I don't know how she talks no matter like you know, let it and then I also by the way, I don't know if you know this people I am an extreme cheater. I'm an extreme cheater. So Chicago metallic, you know Chicago metallic. Oh yeah. The baking pan people Chicago metallic, they make a muffin pan. I was I've been blessed for many, many, many many years of always having full full sheet tray ovens at home. You know ever since ever since 90. Since 1997. I've had full sheet trays right at home. So and for those of you that bake in an oven that doesn't have a full sheet tray jerks okay back me up on this full sheet trays like the game chain?

Oh absolutely. I can't I'm trying to think of how have I not made that decision in my personal life just

because of you you work if you need it, you'll be like yo I need to do something prep some stuff out for me. No do it. The other thing I've told many people is that you know it's a luxury at home. It's nice, hard to keep clean but nice. Is is a speed rack for sheet trays in your house. So You can just rack all this stuff up and everything. Yeah, so Christmas cookie time. I'm the I'm the Christmas cookie people like how do you make so many Christmas cookies? I got a freaking

full sheet tray oven.

And speed rack. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Anyway, where are they going with this? So Chicago metallic makes a muffin pan that has an indent the size of the muffin cap. So it doesn't you don't have to worry about being good at the batter. It can't spread past the muffin cap. Whoa, right. Yeah, right.

I'm torn though how I feel about

cheating.

Why not cheat? Do you know how many awesome muffins I cranked out of that pan? I don't know where it is today. I think it got lost in one of my moves. But oh my god that pan so many blueberry muffins. All thanks to Marcy Goldman. Here's another tip that Marcy goalie gave me an in the in the year of our Lord 1900 93 that I use to this day. Now listen, I know all of you were like, You should keep around some cake flour, some white swan or Lily or whatever it is cake flour, because it's bleaching is different. Listen, if you don't want to have multiple flowers, and you keep a pee in your house on the regular like I do, and like most people do. Most people also have cornstarch in their house. Or if you don't, why don't you have a box of cornstarch in your house. If you need something tender like a cookie, just sub in 15 about 10 to 15% cornstarch for your AP flour. And all of a sudden you've knocked the gluten down and tenderized. tenderize your product. I use this sometimes in pancakes, I use it in crepes I use it in cookies, all because of cooks illustrated 1993. And Marcy golden and for the good news for your people is that the first at least I think 10 years of cooks illustrated were bound. At the end of the year, they did a bound volume of the whole year. And you can buy a complete with index. So this week's classics in the field is Cook's Illustrated 1993 charter year found volume. And I know some of it's outdated, because a lot of their stuff was we're only going to test things that we can get in the Boston metro area. They didn't ever test anything that was hyper expensive or unavailable. So it doesn't fit into today's I'm gonna go on the internet and get the niche, schist niche niche thing that I can find, you know what I mean? It wasn't about that. And it wasn't about going through Herculean effort. So it's like not my style now crazy efforts to get marginal improvement as for those of you that know, Anastasia and I our maximum effort, marginal improvement, like that's our goal.

Compare it to aviation.

Oh, yeah, we're the trailing edge technology, like we make that plane a little bit better. But if it falls off, you're gonna land. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? That little, that little wind tip that saves like one gallon per trip. That's us. But, and, you know, who got their, their writing started cooks illustrated, Kenji Lopez, all? Really Yeah. So the mistakes that cooks illustrated made where they use the word best a lot when they shouldn't write, they should just say, here's the path we chose. Look at our path. It's more of a Dow thing. You know, I mean, look at look at the way of learning how to make something but look at the way of getting better, instead of saying that there is a goal you have achieved because we all know there's no goal you've you've achieved nothing. There's still work to do. You know what I mean? So, like, that's a mistake. I think, you know, some of the anyway, but we're not talking about their mistakes. Go look at the class. Yeah, go do it. All right. Dave,

did you realize so Marcy Goldman has a website called better? baking.com? It was established in 1997. So definitely, you had with the Internet? Yes. Bing Bing Bing. And apparently, they're she has a muffin recipe on here called lawsuit muffins. Ooh,

they help you win a lawsuit.

Apparently they inspired a lawsuit. Oh, but I feel like you might need to reach out to Marcy and