Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Hello, this is Dave Arnold, your host of cookies just coming to you actually live but still from the Lower East Side. And we have Matt in the booth in Rhode Island. The Stasi, the Stasi, where are you? You are now in New York City. And we got John also in New York on more of an Upper East Side situation. Not in Bushwick. Brooklyn, who knows when we'll be back in Bushwick Brooklyn, right?

Hopefully never. Whoa.

Wow.

Wow. All right. How does really feel about it though?

It sounds like every every dark clouds got a silver lining? At least I don't have to go over there. Wow. Damn stars.

Yes.

Well, the thing about Anastasia is, is that the only time she pulls her punches is when it makes her life easier. Right? So like, like, for instance, if I'm working on a recipe, and I have like three different iterations, and I'm like, which one's better should you choose so that I shut up? She doesn't actually care about the quality of it, because it doesn't care about the quality of the

stability standards are like 5% better on each iteration, right? So it's like,

yeah, but that's that's my whole life is that 5% My whole life is that 5% Which means that you don't respect anything that I'm doing,

right? But the reason why I'm your business partner is because I make decisions. And I'm like, You know what, let's just do it instead of going over it. You know, what's the what's the term that like people use in the business world? Done is better than perfect. You You're the opposite of that. Perfect is better than done?

What? No, no, no, listen, my my motto, my motto in school? Yes. Was better done than good. Really? Enter done? Yeah. Because if I don't care about something, better get it done than good. But if something's a lifelong project, like french fries, or something like this, there is no done. And if there is no done, ever

done when creating products, there has to be a downer. We don't make money.

Give what you like, I'm going to do it indoors. Like I'm going to do it again and again and again for the rest of my life. So that's like the The whole idea of truth, the whole thing about cooking, as opposed to other things, like writing a book, let's say, right, is that, you know, unless you're planning on dying tomorrow, you get to do it again. And so you want to be a little bit better next time than you were this time. So the, whereas something that you're going to actually complete and hand off and never look at, again, sure, better done better done than good, especially when it comes to like school essays, or, you know, or things like the things that are like tearing you apart from the inside that you have to do. You know, you're like, there. It at least it's done, right. That's why I used to love tests. So when you're in school, I always used to pray for tests, because there's a limited amount of work you can do prior to a test, and then the test is going to happen and you can't drag it on. There's no dragging a test on because the test happens. You don't have saying

yes

to the paper and having a

due date. You know, because due dates are always fungible, you can always look, here's the thing like in college once you realize that nobody is ever gonna hold you to a due date, that nothing has meaning anymore, and that everything can be twisted around.

I always took due dates very serious. Yeah, well, same

here. Not mean I taught at UConn I enforced my due date. Seriously.

I did not and a word of caution to any college students out there. I still to this day, have dreams about assignments that I didn't finish it like that. I believe I didn't finish and I've like not actually graduated from college. So don't do it the day of our way. Like just just give it in at the right time have wisely might haunt you for the rest of your life.

Speaking of haunting for the rest of your life. Have I ever told the story of staying up 72 hours in a row?

I don't, not to me.

I have I told this on the air probably. Okay.

Okay, do it do it.

So here's what happened. So when I was in college, and the Stasi hates when I just say that. So I went to Yale. I was at Yale, where her sister went, or the Stasi likes to say, I went to college in New Haven,

where you could do the opposite with where you were born? Do we talk about this already?

No, we have not talked about this. So I was my mom was an undergraduate at Stanford when I was born. And that's when her parents my grandparents, who were both now dead, told her that she would never be successful, never reach her dreams, never, you know, never accomplish her life goals. By the way, she started the pediatric heart transplant program at Columbia University, which she still runs and has the best survival long term survival numbers of anyone in the business and has saved countless lives of kids that would be dead. And it's transplanted kids that no one else on freaking Earth with transplants. So yeah, never never went very far. My mom anyway.

Tough being raised by such a degenerate. Yeah, no,

right. Anyway, so. So yeah, her parents tell her nothing's ever gonna happen to her. But anyway, she's never going to do anything. But anyway, I was born at Stanford Hospital at Stanford University Hospital. And so my dad always, you know, for some reason, it stuck in my dad's head, and he loved the idea that Stanford University had its own zip code. And so with my actual place of birth on my, whatever they give you that piece of paper when you're born, it says, Stanford and not Palo Alto. So you're like, Where were you born on? Stanford? And they're like me, how about so now? I just say, it just, it's just confusing because everyone's like Palo Alto and like, No, I wasn't born in freaking Paulo. Well, I was. So my mom, like, you know, had me on the street on the freakin Street. I was in the hospital. You know what I mean? Anyway, anyway, do they have hospitals in Palo Alto? Or is it all just a Stanford says?

I think there's an East Palo Alto hospital. I don't. I don't know about Yeah, yeah. I've been to Stanford, I mean, the Palo Alto hospital

before?

Why STD scare?

You couldn't go to Student Health for

that. They always they thought you were pregnant. Like immediately. It was very stupid. And health was very stupid.

They have tests for that at Yale, a Yale Student Health was just how much did you drink? And when did you drink it? Like, that's what it was. I didn't

drink in college. So

all right, so here's what happened. So at Yale, they had this deal where you you could up to a couple of weeks, you could you know, drop a class and nothing nothing would happen right manners of saying, You know what, this class crap on this class, you could do that. But then literally up until the last day of classes, you could drop a class and and it would just show up as a drop, but it wouldn't show up as a grade, you wouldn't get graded for it, it would just show up, oh, do drop this class, right? So, you know, I was, you know, whatever, not necessarily going to classes or you know, what's the word I'm looking for doing anything else, I was going to the library and spending like a good three or four hours a day sifting through the stacks, which is what the you know, the were the library books were called. So like, for instance, I would hit certain sections, I went through a thing where I was looking up British, kind of early modern execution practices, surprising amount of information on British, like early modern execution practices. Anyway, so like, at any one time in my room, I would have the maximum allowable number of books out which is 50. I know I've told the story on the air before about how I committed postal in, you know, like a postal fraud, to not pay my fines at the Yale University, by the way, the obscenely high fines at the Yale University Library. And but that's how I got interested in Russian absurdist literature, etc, etc. Anyway, so I spent most of my time because there was no internet, the way that you found random information was to go into a giant library and wander around and pick up books. So that's what I did with most of my time. And I listened to a lot of stereo, my room listening to stereo quite a bit, and I spent

50 hours a week, so pay for my tuition. In my free time.

Sounds awesome. Sounds fun. What did you work as?

I was a lifeguard at the pool, I was a research assistant. Pervert. I was a waitress

or research assistant where you first for a pervert

there and then I was a waitress downtown in Palo Alto.

Yeah, what kind of restaurant?

It was called Empire Grill and tap room. So it was like, American American place.

Do you think that place is still there?

I know, I asked. And I searched it's not

there. So you can't go back and be like, I would not want to go back. You wouldn't go back and do all sorts of crazy stuff. So my wife Jen had a job at a at some sort of place like that, like a remodel like a restaurant at a Ramada or something like this, where she had like the terrible polyester like, you know, skirt thing that she had to wear. And she told me the story that she because you know, she lived in Germany in high school. And so she, because her you know, her dad was Air Force that she had known had trained her how to bring a tray of glass glasses out to, you know, drinks out to a table. So she goes out to the table, you know, and she lifts up the glass on the edge. And the whole tray goes bump, bump, and light falls on the table all over everyone, right? Which is classic, although I don't know how Jen got the job, because she's not she doesn't lie. I mean, everyone out there who has ever been a server knows that the only way to get that first service job is to lie. Right? I mean, is it? Is that still the truth? John, that's still the truth. Say that never lied. The only way to get your first server job is

my mom was my reference as a fake person. Yes.

Right. So you lied. Yeah. Like I don't, I don't think like I think it's like, you can't go into the service industry unless you're willing to make that first lie. It's like, it's the bargain of the food service industry. Right? It's like you can't, you have to be a little bit of a degenerate enough to lie to get that first job. And if you're not willing to lie to get that first job, maybe just maybe this business is not for you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, let's be honest, like, you're gonna have to lie to your guests all the time. Like when Booker was working for you at pasta flyer, Booker hates pasta. And so we had to go through a lot of training with him on what to say, when people ask what they should get, like, he's not allowed to say like, it's all gross. I hate it all is pasta. I hate pasta, right? So you, you have to be willing to do a certain amount of kind of, I like to think of them as helpful lies, you know what I mean to people anyway. So, so so she dumps his whole tray of drinks all over these people. And this is the only time no offense to our European friends. But this is the only time that she was lucky. She was serving a table of Germans because she realized that they were Germans and started instantly apologizing to them in German. And they were like, oh, you know, so you know, everything was okay. Everything was forgiving, because here's this American person in you know, in America, speaking German to them and apologizing so she ended up actually getting a good tip out of the situation, which is crazy. It's great. Yeah, anyway, so to a less pleasant story. So you're allowed to drop your classes at Yale up until the very end. Very, very last day by that I mean, end of day, last day of classes 5pm. Now, when you drop a class, right, what you do is you just hand in a piece of paper saying, I am dropping this class, and you hand it to the Dean's admin right person before 5pm. On the last day of classes, that's all that's required. So I was taking this class called math 301 complex analysis. By the way, for those you math people out there, we were using Rudan as the textbook, which I still own on complex analysis. And in about three weeks, so I couldn't quite drop it without it showing up on my on my transcript, but I was like, You know what? No, I'm not No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I left the class. I never went back. I never did the homework. I never went to class. I never took the test. I didn't do anything. And I'm like, I'll just drop it. I'll drop it. But classic me guess what I never did. When I never dropped it. I never handed in that one piece of paper I had, I had 11 weeks 11 weeks of knowing I wasn't going to take this class at all I needed to do and by the way, the dean's office, the dean's office. It's not like it was like, Oh my God, it was snowing. It was like two miles away. And I didn't have a car. No, I did not have to leave the covering of my college building, I could have gone entirely in an underground tunnel in a matter of three minutes and made it to the dean's office to hand in this piece of paper. Right? I just didn't do it. So this will give you an idea of kind of me. Right? So. So there I am. I'm like hey, he and then I'm at my one of my philosophy professor. I'm at like his house, right? Cuz he's having an after, you know, like, whatever, like, Hey, he's, you know, school year is over bubble, blah. And then so it's like, oh, yeah, it's officially over. It's five. And I was like, Oh my God, I didn't. And so then I was way the heck far away because I was at this dude's house, right? And so I just start running. I'm running full speed. And like I have like a like I have a piece of paper like scroll that I think and like a collapse on the on the on the Dean's Office, which is closed even though it's like only 15 minutes afterwards. And I slipped the paper underneath the saying please let me drop this class. 15 minutes late. And my dean was a professor of military history. And my dean his only my first team might his only thing that he really enjoyed doing was making people cry in the dining hall just like rancid, rancid dude. You know what I mean? Like love making people cry. He's probably dead now. So I'll call him out. His name was Solecki Dean Solecki. Anyway. So he, he's like, nope. And he had this weird, like pursed lips situation. Rule. Sorry, I'm sorry that those are the rules, you have to take the class. I was like, take the class, take the class. And Now bear in mind, you're speaking to a guy a kid really? Who already you realize that all he had to do was hand in a single piece of paper. And this wouldn't have been a problem. And he didn't do it now. Do you think that I had planned ahead? So that I didn't have to do all of my semesters work in that last week and a half before exams? Or do you think I had already planned on pulling a bunch of all nighters to do all of my work that I hadn't done during the year because I was too busy reading about early modern English execution practices. When it was the latter, I didn't have any extra time because I'd already been like, oh my god, I already have 320 page papers I need to write in the next week and a half. I already have, you know, I already have this test. And this. So basically, I went to the math professor, and I said, Listen, you don't know me. He's like, Yeah, I don't know you. He's like, Yeah, I didn't take your class, right? He's like, No, you weren't in my class. I have no idea who you are. Well, guess what? I'm taking the class and he was gracious enough to let me take the midterm and the final wave the homeworks that I hadn't done, right. And but I had to stay up for 72 hours straight, just to do the extra work to study to take the midterm and final so that I could get a grade in in that class. And I was what you say when you get in that class, he mercifully gave me a C in that class that was the most merciful see ever on the face of the earth. But I was told by my friends and colleagues that I was not I was able to do I did well on the rest of my classes, thankfully right. But I was not able to speak. I was not able to speak to people because I was so incoherent from lack of sleep. And that this is when I learned that a shower is two hours worth of sleep, that if you if you need an extra two hours of sleep, a shower will do that. And And I remember very distinctly, I didn't drink coffee at the time I was drinking liters and liters of tea, I would bring soda bottles and fill them with tea, and then walk around drinking tea. And I remember around our like 58 or 59. When I was pouring the tea into my bottle, I poured the hot tea all over my hand, it completely scalded it, like a really bad like, it's like a really bad burn all over my hand. And I remember to this day, I was like, sweet, the pain will keep me up. And that was it. I did well. So anyway, as Matt says, probably don't be like me. Probably don't be like me.

That is actually the nightmare scenario that I have that I'm like, enrolled in a class and that I've completely forgotten about entirely, and that's past the expiration. I cannot get out of it. Yeah. So you lived it. Great.

Yeah. Well, as as usual, Matt, I'm living the dream. Yes, you are. living the nightmare. That's that should be our motto says. Living the dream. Living living the nightmare. living the nightmare. Here you go. All right.

Well, Mo is leaving CNN.

Their brother Chris. Yeah. He, by the way, was at Yale with me a year or a year above me. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that tell this story. So when I started going out with my wife, I went Okay, so we're going out I had this room, but I wanted to put the bed up against the door, right? Because I wanted to rearrange my bedroom. And this guy, John morning, who was you know, he was a senior, I was a junior and he's a senior. He was next to me. I had the good computer with the video games. I wanted to move my bed over. But then there was no way that he was going to be able to go through our fire door and use my computer. So I took a circular saw and Dutch doors my door so that you could add an extra hinge so that he could come in and out and walk over my bed in his sneakers to play my to play my computer. And one day, Chris Cuomo, who was friends with John morning was banging on that door looking for somebody else. Anyway, Chris Cuomo, so why is he leaving CNN,

he realized that he couldn't be himself and that everyone should call Trump out and he's sick of like pretending that Trump isn't a problem and all this other stuff.

I thought CNN was very openly anti Trump.

Not enough for Chris Cuomo. Also some guy like attacked him in his driveway will like started saying crap to him in his driveway while he was on Coronavirus shut down. And he was like, I really wanted to tell this guy off, but I couldn't because I have to keep up this you know, nice guy. Personality for CNN and I am here in more

ways to see if you quit two days earlier who had quit o'clock this guy? Yeah, he's basically you know, those are the kinds of regrets you don't want to be like, when you're like, you know, you're on your you're on your deathbed. You got the death rattle. You know, you're like a clock that guy. I mean, that's not the not the kind of regret you want, you know,

but now he's gonna look back and he's gonna be like, well, at least I was able to clock the next one. Yeah.

There's never gonna be a next one.

He was having a fight on the internet with some guy. I remember. He was like, taped having an argument with some guy at a bar like two months ago. Yeah, really.

He's things like for me, a figure at this point. I'm like, 49 years old. I just don't get into fights with people. It's just not going to come up. You know what I mean? It's just like, I guess there's certain people that get in fights and certain people that don't

if you were a public personality like him, I think you'd have a lot more opportunity to get in fights with people they like not

listen my whole life. I am I am generally abrasive and I don't get into physical confrontations with people. I think there's just like, there's like people who get into physical confrontations that people who don't

I don't agree. I think if you had a national show, you would undoubtedly

teach me cooking issues in international

math. You ever been in a fight?

Nah, man. Look at me. No.

What about you, John, you ever been in a fight?

Ah, kind of went to boarding school, which for purposes I leave their name out of this. But we were I was a sophomore and I was rounded up at three in the morning to participate in what was called a cockfight. So me and other sophomores and freshman's were paired up with lacrosse gear and football helmets, and we had to kick the crap out of each other.

Wow. Yeah, that was that's more of a sport than a fight though. There was no animosity. You didn't. You weren't like no, I want to beat this person. Yeah, yeah.

No, but I didn't.

Okay, yeah. I mean, like, what about Ustaz fights fights?

Yeah. And in high school, middle school,

like knockdown drag out fights with other girls. Yeah. Did you win?

I remember it being broken up before there was like a winner.

That's kind of the best right? Then everyone can walk away

die in the head because you said something to me. And then he started bleeding but I had just it looked bad and I just popped his pimple and then I had a good because they thought that I had like broken his forehead open literally just burst his pimple.

Wow, that's gross. But I was everyone listening everyone listening is still processing this.

And we were in the swimming pool like in the

practice why you hate swimming pools?

Yeah. And it was like bleeding all over and they were like you're going to detention and I was like I was

pimple because a poly pimples. That's why you hate swimming pool because of Polly pimples that you popped in the forehead.

Wrinkles for lots of like during swim practice. There was so much disgusting crap in that pool. Oh my god, I forgot

you just said you're a lifeguard. So you used to be a lifeguard. So you're. So your inability was so at some point after college? You're like, I'm never going back to one of these classes again.

Yeah, it's real gross. Real breaths.

Wow. Wow. All right. So Marco is listening in and had a question in the chat. All right. says Hi, Dave. Another oven question. I recently moved to a new apartment and the oven is real crap. It is a gas oven. Not too old, but the heat comes only from the bottom bottom with a gradient that is much deeper than any other oven I have had. I tried to blind bake a tart shell and the bottom was almost burned while the sides still pale. Even with a double tray. Veggies get a weird texture hard and dry exterior. There is no crisping apart from were in contact with the baking tray. You have any solutions in mind, putting a baking steel on the top shelf or something like that I thought about getting a small convection oven on the counter. But that would be quite inefficient.

Actually, they're not that inefficient, maybe space wise inefficient. But in the summer, by the way, they gave it to me for free. So the Breville smart oven, but like I try to only cook things that will fit in that in this summertime because it doesn't heat up the house as much. And I've done the math on it. And it's not that inefficient from a power usage standpoint, although it is electric and not gas. Now, do we did you say it was a gas oven or an electric oven? I believe you said it was. So most gas ovens that I've used home gas ovens that I've used have a the heat the gas element is underneath the floor of the oven. And then that flame impinges directly on you know usually what amounts to an enamel plate on the bottom. And so you're going to get a pretty big gradient from the bottom to the top. I'm wondering why it's so bad in this particular oven, there's no way that putting a baking steel on the top is going to help you because if it's an actual temperature gradient, you will load that thing with heat, but it will load at the wrong temperature. Right it'll In other words, like if you're if your oven is underpowered, and it can't get the whole box to the correct temperature, then adding more mass to it will just make it longer to get up to whatever temperature it was going to get up to. So like I'll give you a give you an example. So like I found an oven on the street once in the in the mid 90s I brought it into my apartment which I wasn't allowed it was my loft, I wasn't allowed to have, you know, cooking implements there. So I literally found it on the street. And it was it was from the I think 20s or 30s all white enamel kind of nice, but no thermostats, no nothing. And I would just crank it and then this was back in the days when everyone was talking about you know, baking stones for kind of like the first time so I was just loading firebricks in and what you realize is is that after a while, it just it takes a lot of time to load all of that extra mass up to the temperature you want which is why when you're doing a retain heat masonry oven, they heat it for a long time like ours because you have to fill all of that mass with heat energy before you can start using it as a retain heat oven. So anyway, if your oven is underpowered, adding extra thermal mass to it isn't a way to kind of help it out it can maybe can even it out, but it's not going to help if you can't get up to the temperatures you might want to look into just getting an electric element and like suspending it from the very top of your oven and having independent top and bottoms. I've done that relatively effectively. And that will add just a little boost of energy at the top but it doesn't have to be a lot like you know if you a cup Well, 100 watts at the top can just take it, you know that couple of extra degrees and help even you out I don't know of a way of turning a non convection oven into a convection oven reliably notice that add the word reliably. I have done it, but I wouldn't call it reliable. Anyway, I don't know if this is helpful at all guys, what do you think?

I mean, yeah, that makes sense. It would be silly of them to try the baking sheet thing at loaded up with heat at the bottom and then move it up to the top after it was heated to the correct or above the correct temperature. Right.

They, you know, they could totally do that. It's just the problem is then, you know, how long is it going to stay at that temperature? And then it's going to go to a relatively lower temperature. So it's just a question of how long you're cooking something. Right? So like most of the tricks people do with, with pizzas, right, so that people are using like those those when they're cooking breads or pizzas. My question to them always is, well, how many are you doing? You know what I mean? Because you know, any recipe that tells you heat. So let's say your oven takes 15 minutes to heat up, right. So if you have an oven that takes 15 minutes to heat up, if you look at most recipes that involve baking stones, or baking steels, the heat up time for them is substantially longer, right. And they'll always say put it in it for a substantially longer period of time. And the reason they tell you that is because you're loading it up with the energy that you need. Now, then, when you add stuff to it, the whole point of like a baking steel, for instance, is that you store energy into it, and now you unload it into your pizza or whatever, right? So then the thing is, is that if you put something on it again, right away, then you're that's it, you know what I mean? Like you have to wait a certain period of time. So it's all a question of, you can you can do anything, it's a question of how long can you do it for and how many of that thing in a row in a row can you do so like, for instance, my crate maker, my gas crate maker, like if you you have to throttle it almost down to zero if you're not going to be cooking with it, because you're expected to put a huge, a huge thermal mass of like crepe is basically is the same as pouring water almost on the entire thing. And that takes a huge amount of energy to heat up really quickly. So then you have to crank the crank maker all the way up right so that you get the right amount of heat input. Right and so getting this kind of heat input versus kind of output to be the same is the trick of someone who's doing high volume cooking. This is the reason why most tacos ALPA store are no good unless you go to a place that makes tacos our pet store constantly because the way that an owl pet store so now pet store, you know is the vertical spit and sometimes the pineapple on top, it rotates you cut off the ALPA store into the taco and then you take pineapples would you say story? Which one?

The most famous one? Which one? Jeremiah?

Oh, yeah, I can tell that. So anyway, so like, the point is, is that is that the way that an outlet store rig is set up is it wants to be on heavy blast all the time. So that you get a nice outside crust on your on your on the on the meat, right? So you can cut it off and you have that nice kind of, you know, crust not crust thing, right? But you if you don't do it all the time, you have to turn it way down and it's not the same right? So it's all about heat input versus output. So Jeremiah, and fabulous from control while there came and did a mo fad, Museum of food and drink kind of getting to know you event at the Harry Houdini house in California, you know, this is before all the COVID last year, and they rented or borrowed a like a portable Pastore unit, right. So it's like this like portable thing. And Jeremiah was like a, this is not cooking fast enough. And so he tried to move it but didn't kind of I guess, realize that the way those things are set up is it's all just kind of friction and luck that keeps it kind of vertical. It's not like pinioned into a hard place because the idea is you might have to move it back and forth. So you literally there's a block in the bottom that the vertical split sits in and that block can slide back and forth and then there's an arm over the top and that are moves but you have to be very careful and slide it without letting it tilt or as we found out all hell breaks loose. So he tries to move it like right before guests show up. And then the Alpes door falls over did it actually hit the ground stops or No,

no I hit the grill part or whatever

that is no fabulous, had been riding, some form of scooter fabulous Fabian van housekeeping writing some sort of scooter the week prior and I don't know whether he was scooting well well imbibing What? But he busted his arm up real bad. Like his arm was like, you know, kind of like Robocop like full traction like pins and metal and all this crap, right? sighs Yeah, it was like totally messed up. And so fabulous couldn't help. Jeremiah, right? The thing I'm in a fool was I dressed in stars, I have my full jacket and everything on right. And there's our pet store meet everywhere. So like we're all running in, we're stripping down to our like T shirts and like grabbing this giant hunk of meat and trying to write it. And then we turn around. And there's Harold McGee sipping champagne in his old tar outfit, watching the whole proceedings. Shaking his head. Yeah, best, best best cooking moment in my life. Best cooking moment. Yeah, so anyway, so the point, the point is you want to get you like any situation, you can do one of two things, you can either have enough heat input into something that you can do it constantly, or you can admit that you don't, and you can store up enough heat to do one or two things and then you have then you have to quit. That's how it works. Does that Does that answer your your point, Matt? Yeah, no, he's

a Marchesa. Thank you. And we should go to break actual break. So mute yourselves for a second. Are we doing classics in the field afterwards?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. All right, right back. This episode is brought to you by vendor table, a monthly food subscription service for avid home cooks focused on delicious and sustainable pantry items. When we got our first boxes from vendor table, you know, we missed asking I shared stuff from from our boxes. And in our Spanish box, she gave me the last Hermanas pimento and the smoked paprika. And DAX actually, we use making green beans because he's trying to make vegetables. He's like, I want to put paprika into the green beans. I was like, whatever. How about you use this one smoked paprika from bento table. And he was like, okay, and he put it in. He's like, Dad, these are the best green beans I've ever had in my life. Go to bento table.com to start your own monthly subscription, use the discount code Hrn to get $20 off a new subscription. And then the table will donate $10 to support cooking issues and all of hrs programming. By the way. We're back right we're back. Yeah, yeah, Dax does not talk like that. Again, I always had like real people, they don't know me. Like, I only have like one or two voices that I used to imitate other people.

Everyone in your entire world doesn't sound exactly the same. Thanks for explaining that.

Yeah, but you never know. You never know some people might not know. I mean. So by the way, on the on the on the flip, if you somehow have not had enough of you know yakking today, I'm going to be what time John 535 30 on mo feds, that's at MOF, Aedes, Instagram, we're going to have our unhappy hour where in which I will use milk syrup, which is a technique that's not in liquid intelligence, because I came up with it afterwards to make a drink called soft sell, which yes, is named after the Tainted Love band. And yeah, what else were we because what are we pushing there? The membership drive? membership drive? Yeah. Which is going up through Friday. Going to Friday?

Yeah, going to become a Friday. So

if you if you still if you're one of the people who's lucky to still have their job and you have some money, right, you should you should support us here at Heritage but you should also support Moe fed so that we can get through this kind of terrible, terrible period. But we will talk more about the membership drive on the when you when you tune in to watch the Mofaz unhappy hour in which I make the soft sell cocktail with milk syrup at 530. You said

530. Yeah. Definitely check out the website and their Instagram. Every day. They're giving away something different cocktail books.

Downton Abbey book is actually one of them Dave's book and the Downton Abbey cocktail book.

Don't get one of them not I don't think them together. Three books.

I saw your book and the Downton Abbey cocktail book and I was like, oh,

yeah, listen, what I have heard. I want one of those. Those Listen, I don't know I have not seen this Downton Abbey cocktail book. What I am told is that it is an excellent book. I'm not even I'm not messing around. Yes, I hear that. It is a very well written book. Oh,

yeah. They came in did a talk at Mossad when the book came out. It was really well

attended. Yeah. John who wrote it.

I can't remember their name. It was a couple of different people. There was one cocktail

Linden, New Jersey,

London one

move away from like,

not like a cocktail story to hell. Like, it's so random, you know what I mean? So now, I will. There is also so there is a, I wouldn't say long and storied. But there is a history of people who write cookbooks around movies, media and books. And so, Booker, my son will only cook recipes out of one of the three different Star Wars cookbooks, which are all done with like Lego figurines. And also he has like a Yoda Soda. He has, like they're all named after things like that. Like there's a forget, they're all like Darth Maul this or you

know, whatever. are in the entire world is the entire worst

bar, apparently. Yeah. I told the Star Wars bar in Anaheim. Yeah, at Disney. Yeah. So anyway, so So Booker only cooks out of Star Wars cookbooks. And then they're the Master and Commander series, which is best known for, I guess that Russell Crowe movie that was out there. There's a whole series of books and whoever wrote it, I don't know who it was, is extremely interested in kind of period, nautical accuracy. And there is a cookbook having to do with all of the period, kind of both nautical and non nautical food items that are in Master and Commander. And it was written by historians and they went to a bunch of historical kind of boat areas to figure out how to write it, including the one that mistakes so there's that. And then, apparently, the Downton Abbey cookbook. So, you know, this is a this is a well known genre of cookbooks that Anastasia is not to be sneezed at

that evening. And I said, I was interested

that you were being sarcastic. You're a bad person.

No, I was just classics in the field. Well, so

before we do classics in the field. All right. I will say this. We, a couple of weeks ago or a week ago, whatever it was, we asked people for their suggestions, and we had some suggestions in I'm going to mention them. So John wrote in no relation to our John Rodin, by the way, John, you want to get in touch with Matt kitchen arts and letters and see whether he wants to do a COVID call in classics in the field of his own? Yeah,

I can certainly do that. Alright, cool.

So Dave, requested, listener recommendations for classics in the field. Here are three of John's the art of the cake by Bruce Healy and Paul. I guess because it's French would be booga and not boo guy. What do you think John? booga booga booga booga. I'm gonna say boo Gods Polly boo GATS. Anyway, John says great for learning the architecture of cakes, Healy. This is what caught my interest Healy, the main author was an American theoretical physicist before becoming taken with French cooking. And there's apparently no information about Bruce Healy on the internet. Now, I also was not able to find anything however, I found out that surely core here wrote the introduction to that book. So I did, John put a text into Harold McGee to see whether he would contact Shirley to find more information about Bruce Healy assuming that I know I know. Mickey is doing well. I hope Shirley is also doing well. Second suggestion was lack cuisine secrets of modern French cooking by I'm going to call them in the American Raymond Oliver. Give me some French on that John. Moe view? Oh, yeah, do that again. One hit it again.