Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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This episode is brought to you by Ben to table a monthly food subscription service for avid home cooks focused on delicious and sustainable pantry items. Learn more at Ben to table.com that's b e n t o ta B le.com And when you use code Hrn for a new subscription you get $20 off and we at Hrn get 10 bucks

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. Cooking issues coming to you live from the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Saskia Lopez is coming to you from Stamford, Connecticut, and we got John Doe coming to you from what do you call that Murray Hill? What is that?

Yep, Murray Hill.

And Matt is in his Brooklyn booth right? You're not back into Rhode Island already in Providence?

Sunset Park, baby.

Yeah, we're in the host Sunset Park. Exactly. What is that

South Park Slope.

And why do they call it Sunset Park since they're like Like to me like all sunset, things need to be in California where the sun sets were when you're on the water, the sun set.

But we have we have an elevated park that is like legit the best place to watch the sunset. California

this dossier is a connoisseur of the sun going up and down. Have you ever been on like I'm sure like the north side of Long Island is also a good place to watch the sunset because you can pretend that you're you can pretend that there's no land to your to your West. Right?

Well, then you have the buildings like outlining the sunset, which is nice when you're in Long Island City.

Now not wanting to see the actual Long Island when you're on the sound looking over. You can kind of pretend that that's the right. The whatever the Stasio wants sent me. Oh, no, it was she had said what a nice, no, she was going to look at a sunset and I said to her Hey, how is the sunset? And then before she can answer what I said is that

you said you know what? Nevermind. I've seen every sounds

Yes, my

friend and business partner. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's it occasionally, when she wants to show that I have no, no hard she'll be she'll bust out the I've seen every sunset. So, last week, by the way, we took a week off, as you know, we were out at the rallies and protests here in New York. For in supportive Black Lives Matter and in support of George Floyd breonna Taylor, and their families. So just want to say obviously, all of that stuff is still going lon, we're doing a radio show this week anyway. And because I guess, you know, John, and Mr. So we figured this is going to be a long, long, long, long, long road. So we want you to know, we, we still want you to go out and support do you tend to support black lives matter? Go out to rallies? I know there's going to be number of rallies this weekend, we're going to go to what do you guys have anything to add?

Go to marches and protests if you can, and if you feel safe and comfortable doing it later, the COVID. And if you're able to, you know, I don't know about speaking for you and associate but, you know, if you can donate to some funds, donate to some bailout funds, donate to the NAACP, donate to Black Lives Matter. There are a lot of really great organizations out there right now where your money will make a difference.

And I feel extremely fortunate in that because I'm antibody positive. I don't, I'm not personally worried about going, going out and protesting. But when you do go out and protest, please, you know, try to maintain mute, it's impossible out there and maintain a safe distance. But you know, try to make sure you wear your masks and try to stay safe when you're out there. An excellent point that was brought up on one of the one of the rallies was if you have a business, you know, try to try to think about doing business with black owned businesses as a as a thing that allies can do. Who have businesses try to make a point of seeking out black owned businesses to do work with. What do you word you guys have anything else you want to you want to

if you want to support both heritage radio and the Philando Castile foundation heritage is donating? Well, heritage is like giving 10% of the proceeds that come into heritage this week to plan Ocasio foundation. So you know,

I did not know that. I did not know that. And also obviously, you know, in a related note, the Museum of food is like just a plea for a plea for help at the beginning but Museum of food and drink obviously. Which you know, John is still working for well, they worked for us at Booker, an index. We're still working hard on getting our African slash American exhibit up more on that later. Because I thought I do for classics in the field today. One of Dr. Jessica Harris's, who's our lead curator, one of her best known books and the one that introduced me to her but that's for later in the program. So any of you guys, any of you guys eat anything interesting, do anything interesting this week from a food standpoint?

I'm fermenting out some Kiwis to make into vinegar.

Why kiwis? They're already sorted by an acid. So like in other words, like my question is why? Why choose something? It's already so high in acid to do your fermentation on?

I don't know. I saw them at fairway and for some reason, I just felt like doing it. I don't know I've been fermenting or fermenting out a lot of different fruits to making the vinegars I've got rhubarb blueberry, cranberry. Strawberry, I've got some Mead. Vinegar. I don't know what it's just it's fun to see what they all turned out to be. So I figured why not try kiwi.

Now you don't need the Kiwi with sugar to get the alcohol level of so that you get a higher higher vinegar percentage. yfm Yeah, like what percentage of are you taking it up to roughly I

I'm really just kind of eyeing it out. I should probably start taking some measurements and getting things to be a little bit more consistent, but I probably say it looks like a quarter of the weight of the Kiwis but

that's very tacky. there John. I don't know like a quarter like something like a porter. I don't know. And we didn't get a chance because it happened. Too recently. You want to discuss your fish feast your tinned fish.

Oh, yeah, that was really excellent. I had one of my friends Brian over he works for Jose Andres. And he came over and we had some really nice wines and then these awesome tins fish Lebra hula is the brand new from Galicia, Spain. And

again because that was that was unintel you guys say that slowly.

Love brew hula I think it's how it's pronounced bru GA Ula. And I got every type of and I've been collecting these for a couple months now and I finally got every type of tinned seafood product that is available in the USA was razor clams, cockles, large clams, a whole bunch of different types of sardines, scallops and sauce, octopus and paprika sauce. Sea urchin.

That's the crazy one right there. 10 sea urchin row. Very good. What do you think about that conceptually? Anastasia? What do you think?

Oh, doesn't sound that great.

The Stasi also remember not a fan of razor clams is the only person I know who does not like razor clams. And it's you actually don't like it. It's not that you're worried about sand. It's just you don't like it right. But it's not the sand.

No, it's not sand.

Is it that they're too sweet and you don't like sweet clams?

I just don't like shellfish in general. I just really don't like shellfish.

What about like steamed Mussels with? Oh, you don't like french fries? I forgot. Oh my god.

I can do without it's not like, that's the thing. I can eat it all. I just, I would rather not order it.

Do you know what you're like? I'm

a verse like scallops the

wool? Oh, all scallops?

Yeah, I many of them as a kid. Like, we would boil them. And then I just eat them and

boil them. First of all. I mean, I was last time you gave a scallop a chance, like a real

a lot, because that's the dish that most restaurants will come will like send out from the chef and you're like, oh, and then I just eat it. Yeah. So I feel like a lot

of feel like like, I mean, I feel like to really be like the schedule. I need to do the East Coast scallop thing, but I mean, if you've done it now, if it's been ruined for you, it's ruined for you. There's nothing I can do about

it. No, I've had amazing scuffs like the ones that Pasternak does and ask like,

you're gonna, you're gonna imitate his voice for me if you're gonna need to

scratch my balls while doing it. But um, yeah, I mean, I understand what a good scallop tastes like. I understand all about it, but I just don't like it. I

just feel bad that it got ruined for you by your, your childhood.

I hate them a lot as like, well, they were like, special, you know, so

wasn't special or you ate them a lot, or both?

Well, like they were a special occasion food like Mother's Day and

boiled. So your Dad cooked them for your mother on Mother's Day. And he boiled them? Is this what I'm getting? Yeah, something like that. Were they at least in some sort of a soup? Was it a tomato situation? Oh,

What?

What? Why would you boil I'm trying to understand, like, I'm in a kitchen. I have scholarships. And I'm like, What am I going to do? I'm gonna throw them in boiling water. And it just I just didn't know what comes to my head.

Yeah, I understand it. Right. You know, we were we were shaken bake household.

I mean, I could see scallops in a bad Shake and Bake. And then like, very quickly, like, like, like roasted like that. I can see if you're shaking, shake and bake scarves. I could design my whole life around the shape of a scarf. But like, well, Hmong. I spent a lot of money on this special occasion. I'm gonna throw it in boiling water. I don't know, John, what do you think, man? What do you think, Matthew?

I mean, I wouldn't boil a scallop. But like, if that's how Anastasia and her family enjoyed them as when she was growing up, like, I'm sure. I don't know. I mean, I have you tried to boiled scallop like, do you have the right to crap all over it the way you are.

I've had scallop in soups. Okay, right. But if you're gonna put a scallop into a soup situation, right? That's the kind of shit stuff scuze me that's the kind of stuff where you you make like a few may or whatever, or you know, you make your shellfish stock, and then you reserve all of the fish parts. And then you throw the scallops in at the end, you basically toss them in at the end and let the carry over cook them as you take them to the table. Every time I've ever done like a fish stew, or a fish thing and it involves scholarships, the scholarships, I steam cook all of the shellfish over like with white wine and take the steaming liquids, add those to the pot to make the base soup. Use the bones from the fish to make a food may combine those two things, make the stock and then fold the actual seafood products, especially something like scallops. And at the end. That's the way for decades and decades and decades that I have done. Any fish stew, or any fish like liquid fish product that wasn't meant to be cooked forever. Like like a I don't really care what I'm doing. That's not how I do. What's it called clam chowder because there's supposed to be little rubbery garbage is there. That's the whole concept is rubbery garbage and so you hack them up and you do it you know what I mean? But

your way very not shaken bake. No,

but I'm saying like I could just see like I could see some sort of shaken bakes having like, am I the only person here who was actually made shaken bake in the seven Yes, I'm obviously I'm the only one has done in the 70s because I'm the only one that was alive during the 70s but I remember actually doing it. It was a real thing that we did back in the day that that is real that happened. That is not like just like a myth to Shake and Bake. Did you actually do shake and bake in your house? And Stasi? Are you just saying oh, that's fine. Yeah. So they had it in the 80s as well.

Yeah. market shelves today. Yeah, really?

You can still go buy shaken bake? Yeah. When you were growing up, do they have that commercial?

She can be can I help? Yeah. I have kids that

well, the kid was help I guess it was to help. Did they have the Hamburger Helper commercials when you were a kid? Do they have the restaurant infomercials? No. Yes. So we basically even though we're like you know more than 10 years apart we're basically had the same kind of commercial based childhood that's why

Dave and I need to enter a game show together I really think that that would pay for our next product. The game show together with money

we have code words that we say with each other that no one else would no one else would get

to be like the newlywed game but for colleagues yeah for like business partners Yeah, we kill we kill Yeah,

we will wait them out. We will wait for them and it's true. But I still now can't get all of these dang commercials out of my head that I just brought up do they have the you know you can't have cookies for breakfast but you can have cookie Chris commercial European Yes.

Yes. Yeah, we could we weren't allowed to this book because that was watching it. Yeah,

well, first of all, it's garbage. And it's all sugar. So no Booker's here by the way.

Okay, there's no bunker where's my cake?

He can't he can't hear you because I got the headphones on the Stasi wants to know when she when you're gonna bring your cake up now that we've entered phase one. And I'll think of a time sometime at the towards the end of this month now, towards the end of this month so so to Booker has made nostos he is red, white and blue sprinkle cake. It's made. The cake is made. It's in the freezer. It needs to be thought and iced. It's often the sauce. So why did she move out of New York City? It's the best place in the world. Okay, so this is my forum for this kind of discussion. Appreciate it. I like Booker's the only person was like, still 100% New York all the time. You still like yeah, New York? Hell yeah. New York.

In like three weeks when it's gonna be 100 degrees with 100% humidity, Mass.

Booker's spends 23 and a half out of every 24 hour period in his room, which has an air conditioner. So it's like

when he's gonna start riding the subway again. I

thought more I started taking the subway. Yeah, so he started taking the subway now so now he's getting well, we'll see Booker has endured many New York summer on subway platforms so and he for whatever mask he Yes, that's true for whatever reason Booker prefers, like, cloudless days one tiny wispy cloud at 20,000

feet when they went into cloudless day for for nuclear bombs.

Oh, now did it we talked about that on the air. We talked about that in the air problems you know, there was a whole city well I'm not gonna get into I'm not gonna get into not gonna get into nuclear warfare and cloud cover. Right now we can do

that. It'll just take us straight to the end of the show. Yeah, I'll just keep going on track that starts to revolt after about 25 minutes of non cooking related stuff. So they said don't cook tonight called chicken delight or something wouldn't

get chicken delay chicken delight after Google that one Google that one later. I mean, like, I can still picture that creepy handle from Hamburger Helper. And like be and like this super like that. It was like I don't want to get into it. I don't want to get into the gender politics of the Hamburger Helper helping her help her Hamburger Helper make a great meal. It's just like it's garbage anyway, but nothing against the product. I don't even remember what it tastes like. It's fundamentally a hamburger macaroni casserole product. Am I right? Oh, here's a question for you. What happened to the sloppy joe? Does anyone still make the sloppy joe?

No, but they're good. Who is?

The restaurant in New York City that does well it's like a fast casual kind of thing but snippers got the big red logo. They saw a sloppy

job. Brooks's vegan, sloppy joe.

Oh my gosh, it's so good. Yeah.

Listen, listen, listen, listen. Where are you with knife and fork on sloppy joe Are you a pickup drip 8000 and napkins and then fork up the stuff that falls on your plate

the ladder with you got to put the sloppy and sloppy joe Are you kidding

me? So you don't pull a De Blasio you don't fork your knife and fork you're sloppy joe. What well open face turkey sandwich you're allowed to eat with a knife and fork because it's not a sandwich. It's a lie. Right?

Sure that makes sense. Yeah.

So what about you John up you pick up your Sloppy Joe and have it go everywhere?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I haven't had a sloppy John in a little while. Well, that's when I probably had this Brooks's. But yeah, I think so. And yeah, I haven't just kind of pick it up and eat it. Yeah. Have

I ever told you my, my multimillion dollar food idea? Amy, so

it was like a good one to share. You probably should have told him the Stasi about one at some point that went out on the air but never

here's this here's this so I think it was stars you already work. Remember the stoners came and they wanted to make burrito tape. Oh yeah. So these the these stoners self self styled stoners wanted to make a an edible tape so that they could take their burritos shot so that when they ordered their burritos when they were stoned out of their mind, they you know, they wouldn't trip the product everywhere you remember this and Stassi right? And I said to them, Well, I'm not going to make you a tape. But I did invent my thing, which is the semi Chaga have I discussed the semi Chunga? Yes, you have on the air? Well, I will say it again because no one has served me one yet. So what it is, is it's half burrito, or maybe even two thirds burrito and 1/3 to one half chimichanga so do you have the heart base to hold the burrito with and then you pick it up and you eat the soft burrito? And then you finish the hard chimichangas section much like an ice cream cone. That is all kinds of winning.

I will just not that I think the edible burrito tape is the bajillion dollar idea.

I'm not going to pass any judgment on you for saying that. But like what are you going to make this edible tape if we they we were working with Aguilar scripts me Why do I want to double tape on my burrito? I'll tell you what I do hate. I do hate chewing on paper when you buy like a sandwich that's goopy or goopy burrito and you peel back the paper and it gets all goop over the paper and you can't see the paper line anymore and you start chewing on the paper. Unpleasant. Yes. Pleasant. What do you think about eating the rice paper on a white rabbit candy? Like yeah, I do too. Do you know white rabbit in the 80s was slightly soft or different they changed the recipe at some time in like the either in the sometime in the 90s I think all through the 80s it was the same I love a white rabbit Can you guys like Matt and John your white rabbit candy people? Well, you've never had a white rabbit candy.

No, man. What the hell? Send me one

anymore but they're easy enough to get remember when remember in the early 2000s When those ginger candies all of a sudden became the rage. Now the super hot ginger candies candy train. I love those things. That's not really the stasis jam though right? Alright, quick note on breadmaking before in the wake of the Adam Lionni thing I've been experimenting a lot with bread I've got people Instagramming me stuff and twittering me stuff on bread and milling. Maybe we'll just do another show I've been working a lot with with milling and different sifting technologies. So I have a lot to say I've been plowing through a bunch of the wheat that I've bought I've been experimenting mainly with hard red winter I don't have any hard red spring it and we that's the best way to hard

hard red winter that's what we made our whole grain pasta out of

we didn't use you didn't use some Durham

I'd have to look at the

sort of dirt I want to try some hard red spring, but it's just not available and I want to try some hard white. So I mean I went all in because I have questions to get to but like I could talk about like what I have learned over the past month in terms of flower tastes. And here's the here's how this is going to work. So setting the status I don't want you to worry here's what's gonna happen. Here's what's going to happen. I am going to probably do this for three or four months I'm going to go through all of the wheat I have plus I'm going to buy some hard white wheat and some red spring when I plant available again, I'm going to be testing a bunch of different stuff because honestly like I love the the product that I'm making it and I think it's different but I also like roller milled. I also like bread made from roller milled white flour, right so I don't dislike bread made from roller milled white flour and I don't eat foods based on whether or not I think they're healthy I eat them based on whether I think they're delicious. I do want to tell you if you have not milled your own flour or have very freshly milled flour or somebody else's freshly milled flour bread it is way different and way better and way more interesting than any other holy product that then I've ever had and I'm I'm having fun working but it's kind of like you know when I'm roast coffee I'll roast coffee for like a year then I'll take a pause for a year or two then I'll do it for a year or two I feel the same things gonna happen to me with milling my own flour so you don't need to worry about me doing it all the time because this dassia believes anything that I get into even slightly that that's going to be my new my new thing that I'm going to become a civil war reenactor What else do you think I was going to do?

Leather man

well that's going to happen. Like if my family ever if my whole life has been Broadway Yeah, well,

what about Broadway? What was going to

God they built out a

show. I will not. Oh, you guys. You've heard anyone else here a million times.

He knows Dave Arnold. You haven't heard him belt out a freaking show.

Oh, man. We're just we're just letting it fly today. Hours bleeping the show.

So Booker Booker was saying he wanted to sell. Booker was saying he wanted to sell his brother like it. Like I don't know where this came up. But he was very anti his brother. And, you know, and so I started singing boy for sale from Oliver. And then Booker did not enjoy that very much. But you know, of course, of course, I know Oliver by heart. I mean, who doesn't know Oliver by heart.

You also know Les Miz. You do Fiddler on the Roof. You

literally know Fiddler on the Roof by heart because in sixth grade, I was terrified. And back then, when I had nothing else on my mind. I memorized the entire play.

The dance moves. I mean, it's I mean, how hard

is deetle? deetle? deetle deetle deetle deitel Dummy go around the room all day long. I bet he bet he bombed come on in. And we this stuff stays with you forever. You're never you never lose. By the way. I think he lived very close to where I

am you and I were saying we're gonna start a band last week and I was like, I can't see and you were like, That's okay.

Dharma is not important. Yeah,

why were we doing

I don't know just something other than what we were doing which doesn't appear to be working

by the way, questions, but hey, we're talking about bread baking man.

Want to I don't want to go back to bread.

He just asked you to. I just heard him do it. I just heard him do it. I have to say though, not about bread in particular. But I am loving this pseudo Detroit pizza. I've been working on loving it. Loving the suitor Detroit pizza. I wouldn't mind going back to Detroit. Not just for the pizza though. I do miss their hotdogs. They have such good or as they call them. Coneys inexplicably, they call them Coneys they're very good. But you didn't you didn't care about it right? You just got to chill. You didn't even get the dog. Did you even try one of those dogs?

Yeah, you broke me off please.

Speaking of you eating one right now old stamps how to stamps make the noise of thumbtacks they're

in like a thing

see you're doing to us what you hate for people to do to you. This is why you don't go to movie theaters because you don't like the popcorn beds. Sure I

did I get here.

Okay. Okay. Okay. From Tom is there and again via email I recently tried to make Orsha I started by blending my hot water and almonds. Then I poured this mix directly into the rotor, presumably the rotor of the spins all are centrifuge and spun on for 20 minutes or so there was no clarification or separation. Yeah, that's not the way that's not the way the Orsha does work for the rotor for the spins all in general. I you know, I'm usually making such a large quantity of those things that I go through and nutbag. And then a press is actually how I do those things in real life but when I do do nut milks in the spins all I do it around the quantity of nuts, so I always have the quantity of nuts in the recipe be roughly 400 pounds. D Isn't that beautiful? Yeah, yeah. But if you if you're not have that whole song going through my head. So if you if you do that, the idea is is that all of the liquid that you blend in, will get filtered through the nuts through these nuts as they go through as they're in the rotor, and you'll get because the first like it's The first like, couple 100 milliliters you get off are going to look almost clear in a continuous situation, but you're not going to get a decent separation out of those hard pureed nuts like that. Even in a big center for us, you will get it when you're running it at 4000 G's for like 20 minutes, but with this one it's really more about trying to fill the rotor with Deez Nuts solids, and then and then getting the stuff out but in general, like nut bags, nut milk bags, and there are I think the way to go but there endeth the there and if the suggestive nut bag talk. Aaron hold back from Instagram. Okay, now the Stasi is gonna hate this one. You're gonna hate this one. This does. Yeah, we're just because it's like highly technical and like all tweaked out, you hate it. Anyway, hey, Dave, I'm building a proofing box. So we're back on bread, you happy about that, Anastasia. For those of you that don't know, sometimes if people can't control the environment in their kitchen, the humidity or the temperature, they build a proofing box, proving boxes, usually at a higher temperature than you would have in your normal house or kitchen. But it's consistent so you can kind of guarantee the proofing rates and you need a relatively high humidity and a relatively high temperature but also a relatively large volume because you're going to be putting a bunch of bread into it. I am building a proofing box by retrofitting a Coleman cooler with an immersion circulator and closet shelving I intend on mapping the bull I eat the bread bull, the bred bulls height through its proofing by using a laser ping rangefinder with one millimeter resolution highlight that says,

okay, okay. Yeah,

I was wondering if the appropriate time to bake is when the bulls maximum height has plateaued. I'm just getting into the monitor spread. And I've yet to find a conclusive answer to this question. I would say no, that's probably too late. Thank you, Erin, Holbeck. And then as a follow up, follow up, I found that measuring the height proportional to volume is an unreliable gauge of fermentation. In fact, at either maximum, the dough would be over fermented, I use the finger dent technique. And I'm now exploring ways to quantify this qualitative test. For those of you that don't know the finger dent technique, when you're proofing bread, is if you push on the bread as its proofing. So you've, you've done the shape. And by the way, by far and away, the thing that when you're beginning in bread that you're that you're going to probably f up is the shaping part of it. So much of the structure of the final bread is because think about this, you do what's called bulk fermentation, it ferments and then often you kind of you punch it down or you do whatever you're going to do after bulk fermentation, then you divide it into whatever its final loaves and or buns are, and then you do the shaping. And so much of the texture and structure of the bread are done in that shaping thing. I think that's where a lot of people mess up anyway. So I use sort of finger den technique after you've done your final shaping, and your proofing it. That's my large dog being happy that Jen just gotten home from work. So when you push in, if you push and you need to tap, you push on it a little bit. And when it pops right back actually like it's very elastic, it means it has an inflated enough to reach anywhere near the edge of the glutens kind of extent. If you push it in and your finger goes into it and it starts collapsing, or you waited too long, because at that point, any kind of hits going to make it deflate. What you want is for it to still be going up when you put it into the oven, the oven hits it, the temperature goes up, boom, you get your oven spring but it doesn't collapse. And then boom, you get your your perfect bread. So that's the dentist anyway. So here's the Stasi is going to hate this even more. I intend to use a series of linear servos to emulate a finger impression while mapping the rebound volume through a 3d depth sensor. If I'm on if I'm able to automate calling the proof it may be interesting to design a consumer model with more economical components. My inspiration for this project is no kitchen get quotes. No kitchen gadget can simplify calling proof for you which is a quote from modernist bread three dash 220. With that said, I fear that I'm innovating for innovation sake, how would you proceed? FYI my summer research plans were foiled by the pandemic. So I've turned to experiment at home. Thank you, Aaron Hoback. I would definitely say that this is something that you should do. Aaron for your own edification. I don't know anyone's going to buy a proof test here. What do you guys think?

There's, with the sudden popularity of bread baking at home, I think this is a stretch.

There's also I'm going to put to you this way here and I think this is kind of fascinating. I'd love to know like I like there's a huge, long history in industrial cooking, of testing things that are kind of untestable and coming up with standards. And then those standards become kind of the standard. So in the P industry, there's a thing called the tender ometer. And they, they, they have a very specific shaped instrument that crushes a very specific amount of peas and measures the the very specific weight that it takes to crush that. And that's turned into a tender ometer reading for peas. And a lot of things have these very strange kind of standards that are built up. So who knows, maybe you'll come up with the, maybe you'll come up with the with the proof standard. But I will also say I watched recently a video where someone did the same recipe at four different proofs under just right or under a little bit under just right and like a lot over to show the difference between them. And the difference in whether they proved it correctly or incorrectly is not as dramatic as you might think. But it's instructive to look at their videos to see what the effect of proof is on Brett. Brian yercaud writes in Hey, hope you're well had a question about vacuum pumps. Any suggestions on the status gadgets vacuum pumps? Any suggestions on what to do to get a cease pump going again? And just because I know Dave likes the details. It's a bush R five RB 0021. C. Wouldn't let electric motor all inside of an ultra source Ultra Vac 250. Brian, so most likely what has happened Luckily for you, the Bush pumps are well unluckily for you Bush pumps are fantastically expensive. Luckily for you, they're also completely rebuildable. The odds that there's something wrong with the electric motor are probably zero, those motors are a beast, almost certainly what has happened. And by the way, you can go online. And if you look up the our series Busch pumps, there's a complete rebuild guide online, it's available for them. Let me see if I can get you the title for it. The rebuild guide is titled maintenance and repair metal, my manual, our five series and the things all there and complete down to like how to get the taper pins out without damaging them. It's very good document. Undoubtedly what has happened is this. Inside of an oil base of vacuum pump, there is a spinning wheel, like an eccentric spinning wheel on that spinning wheel is a vein that it pops up and it's spring based in that vein, I think they're carbon, I'm not sure that vein, I forget exactly what they're made out of that vein pushes up against the outside of the pump and sweeps through the oil and acts like a highlight scoop, going back to the 70s acts like a highlight scoop and scoops the air out from the low pressure area through the oil and out the high pressure area. And if you shatter one of those veins, it'll seize the pump right up most likely you have a thrown or shattered or stuck vein. So you need to drain the pump, you know, get rid of the oil that that oil is ruined, clean all that stuff out and either repair or fix the veins which is a very small price to pay compared to the price of that bush vacuum pump. Was that a blessedly short enough answer for Anastasia?

Yes all right.

Rachel Meyer right wrote in I don't have an answer for this one but more of a throwing it out there maybe. Maybe we have in the listening audience a pectin expert maybe one of the people from CP Kelco because I don't know that I still have our context is cp Kelco Piper Christiansen who used to work with us his family is part of CP Calico but he doesn't talk to us anymore. Now we don't we still talk to him and he said he hasn't talked to us anymore. Right? Right. Right says Yeah. Anyway, he's got the Calico context this episode is brought to you by vendor table a monthly food subscription service for avid home cooks focused on delicious and sustainable pantry items. So I got my France box and one of the things in it was the lavender Blackberry, rhubarb jam from V smiley, what I recommend you do with this, read it on toast. And for toast if you got the vendor table essentials box. In that box, you may find a main grains Red Five wheat flour, and you can make a delicious very full flavor whole wheat bread from the from the main grains Red Five, I will say this, if you're not used to baking with whole grains, realize that you're going to need to have a much higher hydration ratio is going to take more water than normal. I would let it ferment for a relatively long time so that everything gets absorbed, it's going to feel a little bit different in your hand. If you want great flavor, but want a more traditional kind of fluffy loaf and you're not used to baking with whole grains. It's okay to mix that with 5050 that flour and either a bread flour or even an AP flour. And then you can do what's closer to a Jim Lahey No need a break kind of a recipe and then when we had stuff leftover, we toasted it and guess what we spread on it? The V smiley, lavender, Blackberry rhubarb jam from the vendor table box so that's what I would do. Go to bend to table.com to start your monthly subscript should use the discount code HR n to get $20 off a new subscription and bend to table will donate $10 to support cooking issues and all of Hrn which stands for Heritage radio network's programming. It's Rachel Meyer from shoots and roots and by the way shoots and roots is a bitters business that was formed by three PhD botanist, women. I think the only one of them I really know is Rachel but it's kind of a cool concept company. They make interesting bitters with, you know, very kind of non standard botanical flavors like pine forests and whatnot. It's Rachel Meyer from shoots and roots, I accidentally made a jello shot by mixing 350 milliliters of Everclear with a whole barbecued orange through muddling. And the jello that it produced is delicious. Would you be willing to work with me on making this a thing, the chemistry average pectin for Orange and presentation, etc, etc. too good to pass up on this grilling season. So what has happened pectin, which is the setting thing that's in oranges, is not soluble in highly alcoholic mediums. So you've gotten this pectin, you've modeled it, and then because of the alcohol for some reason, you've got the set, just write such that it sets up in the in the glass. I don't know how to reproduce that because pectin is as they say, in French fiddly. So like, it's real fiddly. So like, I would say, I'm gonna pass this off, hopefully someone else in the Listening crew has a way to kind of make this more predictable, you know, some way to measure it or some way to bullet proof. The recipe is such that it always works. But you know, pectin, destabilization and alcohol is something that, you know, obviously, I've known about for many years and have used in, for instance, in the book liquid intelligence I use for doing auto this dinos, but I've never tried to actually create a gel with it on a time after time basis, but hopefully someone in the audience knows something about it. All right.

We actually had somebody send in a voice memo I DO WHAT do you want to you want to try this question? When I play this, there's a chance that you're gonna hear it at some sort of weird speed. Just let's see if we could roll with it.

What's up Dave, Anastasia, Matt, and any other road crew. This is Paul from Seattle, longtime listener. I've noticed the rage parameter has gone down on the show lately. So I'm calling in with some questions about things you hate. Mainly cold brew coffee. I've recently bought a spins off. Right now cold brew is my only substitute for not having AC, as the apartment that I'm quarantined in, is slowly warming up this summer. And I'm also looking to make some low quality individuals versions of some of the coffee drinks from liquid intelligence. I know that you and Paul Adams have argued a lot about cold brew. I remember from a backup episode, you said your current like current cold brew process is slightly different from what's in the spins all recipe book. I was just wondering what your current cold brew process is right now. Also, in case you in this assay are running out of things to fight about. Bonus Question. How do you partially clarify the preserve lemon juice for the Corsair? Do you undercut the enzyme amounts? Or do you run it for less time or what? Thanks everyone, be safe.

Well, Polly increase my Rage Meter just by by having that like Mr. Massey couldn't even let me listen to the question.

Wow, that makes more sense. Yeah. Since last, he's like talking to me in the middle of the question. Trying to listen to the guy.

That's so weird that you could Okay What did you hear it John? Did you get to hear that one?

Anyway, but I was like, I was like, I was like, What the hell is she doing? The guy's like, you don't have enough rage anymore. And like literally in the middle of him saying have a rage anymore in his thoughts. He's sitting there like just like talking over him. Like he's not