Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This episode brought to you by appeal helping you to enjoy your fruits and vegetables at peak freshness and reduce food waste. Learn more@appeal.com a pel.com.

From whenever took whenever had a look or whatever. joined as usual with the Stasi, the hammer Lopez at an undisclosed location in Southern California. How you doing? Good. Yeah, we have sent me a good

because want to get to the meat of the show.

Just excited to get to where we got. We got John in New York City's Upper East Side. Customer Service hidey hole. Hi, John John. Doing well. Thank you. Yeah. And unusual because she's such a fan of our actual guests. Oh, we have Matt and his booth is Rodon. Booth didn't mean to leave you out there, Matt. Thank you. Yeah, we have Rebecca, the Boone Toggler Palgrave x here, our intrepid PR agent do not call her a flak. She does not enjoy being called a flag. Is that true?

Yeah, yeah, we we talked about this pretty much every time I'm on the show, I feel.

I know. But like, I just don't understand it. And interestingly,

just so it's still true.

Our guest, by the way, started out his career in PR. And so maybe he can give me a better understanding of why it is considered. You know, a not a good term. We have on the show today. Editor editor large scale editor at large, right? Correct. There's that title hasn't changed, right?

It is changed. Three H anti Oh, I can't wait to dive into that one. All right, former

former editor at large or large means anyway, I've always wondered, it's kind of a cool title, but I don't really know what it means. At chowhound, we have Josko Donnie here with his new book, basic, basic vision, you basically take kitchen and you knock the key off and replace it with a B, and you have the basic pitch and welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I feel like I going to be a different guest than what you usually have. So

yeah, and and on the flip side, we're probably going to be asking you maybe slightly different things than your average person interviewing you wouldn't be asking you anyway. So I feel like so, so Alright, so I was gonna go into thing but since he's recently and you said you're ready to dish on this whole no longer the editor largely chowhound. Go.

Yeah, no. So chowhound. is actually CBS interactives food and lifestyle brand. I've been with them for about three years. And we were kind of part of this whole red ventures acquisition where they took over CBS interactive entirely. So what's

red ventures anyway? Before you go, because I read that, but I have no idea what to read Ben.

Yeah, it's a media companies. So they own point sky. greatest health line. Yeah, so the state of chowhound right now is kind of TBD. So, people still assume I'm associated with them. But I'm like, no, because we're not creating any more content.

So no one is it's not just you. It's just

me. Yeah, the entire staff was laid off. So oh, she would need to Yeah, tough times. Tough times. But

wow, that's so strange. Because you would assume that like, you know, people need this kind of food information via the internet. Now more than ever, it seems like a weird move. No,

one would think but I think it was just part of this overall deal where honestly, CNET was our flagship site. And it's worth a hell of a lot more than childhoods worth, just because their readership and the advertising revenue that they get, so we were kind of packaging with them. And that's just how it how it happened. But ultimately, it's good for me, because now I have no more exclusivity. And I can do my own thing. So congratulations.

back in. Back in the day, if you were going to buy a printer man, CNET was the place to go on the on those reviews, you know, I got a I got a bio, I gotta buy a camera. I'll go on seen it, you know what I mean? Like that was,

I mean, that's still their bread and butter. And they're, I'm assuming they're gonna continue with that. But yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see maybe how they incorporate Chow hounds, and potentially some kitchen appliance reviews into it. So we'll see everything's TBD, kind of like all of this year.

So when you are working at chowhound, like, how much did you feel like, you know, you guys were, you know, not given the, like, the full power that you should have? Because you were part of this, like, seeing that Big Brother situation? Like, did it feel like that? Or did it not feel like that day to day,

you know, it was nice, because we did really work independently, we were very unique to the portfolio, there was nobody else doing food in the space when it came to CVS. So they didn't really dictate a lot of our content, other than I would say, maybe kind of E commerce driven things because everybody loves, you know, a gift guide. Everybody loves God, we are doing just like product, round ups during some of these, like major food, holidays and holidays that we shouldn't even be celebrating. That was kind of what they're making money off of. But it's just like every other, you know, business model, where can we make the most money, doing the dumbest things. But we really did work independently. And that was the beauty of it, you know, we really got to delve into aspects of food that weren't like super mainstream and have to highlight a lot of chefs and restaurants and stories that a lot of other publications really weren't tackling. So I was proud of the work that we did, I didn't feel like we had this corporate umbrella controlling or every move. But obviously, there was still that small element of it. And as a result, we were sold.

matha Evany really, when you're doing product roundups, that you didn't enjoy anything really stand out as something you really hated having to round up a review.

So I maintain some editorial integrity here. If I didn't like something, I just didn't write about it. At all, we just didn't include it. But I will say that's more has more applied to when I did restaurant guides, or travel guides, and, you know, I would visit certain places that, you know, maybe a publicist for a travel board put together and I just had to kindly tell them, I was not going to be writing about their food. So, but product wise, we if it sucked, we would just tell the publicist and not include it.

Right. But there's certain things that like for instance, in your book, your book, basic pitch, you take like a kind of no judgement attitude towards so like,

even when really you hate a very judgmental No, like,

no, but like no judgment. No, we're just like you're heavily judgmental about a lot of things, but you are nice to people who want something and you're like you can have it you know, I mean, that kind of no judgment. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's probably better. Rebecca No, shame is probably better than no judgment. Like there's always judgment. Same way at the bar, it's like I want you to be happy but secretly I'm judging you about your order. For sure. You know what I mean? But yeah, like, for instance, like you got a cauliflower pizza recipe and you're like, fu cauliflower people, but here it is, because they know you want it. You know what I mean? So like, Yeah, interesting. stance to take. So I'm sure John has the same thing. It's like, well, I have to round up this series and things that I personally despise. However, it's like, I want to give you a quality version of this thing that I

despise. So that's where I did kind of have to be a little bit more restrained because I was under the CBS umbrella, you know, where I had, you know, that corporate influence because you don't want to get an RFP from a client that, you know, you may be bashed three months ago, and you're scrambling to hide that article. Because at the end of the day, there's there to make money, you know, as all these major corporations are, but um, but yeah, that is the tone I took from it with my book. And I did try to apply it to a lot of my writing. I just had to be a little bit careful with calling out brands specifically. Right, right

on the cauliflower pizza. By the way, when did that happen? Why is that an Oprah thing that Oprah make that happen?

No, because Oprah loves bread. So she she talks.

She has a caller, she has a cauliflower pizza brand. She hasn't done

it. Yeah. And the cauliflower mash? Yeah, she's she loves a cauliflower moment. I mean, she loves Listen, Oprah's got her big old like garden that she likes to show off on Instagram every day. And I'm sure that she just like had an abundance of cauliflower and was like, I'm gonna make this a thing and it became popularized. But um, no, I feel like the cauliflower trend was there a lot longer than then? Oprah's Well, or at least after she gave her seal of approval? made it a favorite thing.

Oh, yeah. So So I guess like I just didn't hit my radar until it got over five. I mean, I know like, I kind of like just to show you how out of touch I am. I lost touch with Oprah after she decided to sing her own theme song back when she still had that show. I was like Oprah doesn't need a singer own. She can get the best theme song. I don't have a theme song

it's not singing. It's not singing.

Sing many of Jingle on this show.

Musicals Dave? Yeah, that's true. Who does not love music? You

turn your life into a musical.

Look, I love musicals. What do you want out of way but

Dave Do you like movie musicals? Because I I love musicals. I'm a Broadway queen, but I hate anything that's put on the big screen. We're not obsessed. Like I know just go off and say I hated the prom. I don't know if you just saw it. Hate it. Oh, Doc just hated loads. And like I just Oh.

What about what about it was a big Miss. What about movies that have songs in them but aren't really musicals like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. Okay, I

can deal with that kind of like a Wizard of Oz situation. That's fine. I think the only movie musical I was obsessed with was Chicago.

I never saw it. I never saw it. What about sound was that Renee Zellweger? Did that.

Yeah. Bernays Zeta Jones. Sound of Music. Yeah, that's fine. I feel like some of the doesn't last six. I can deal with more. Because it is like it's supposed to be kind of campy and it works for the times.

But like South Pacific like yes, no.

Yeah, yes. Yes. I don't know. It just is kind of a general. I don't know if they rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know. I agree. Womp womp. Doesn't like

action ones.

I'm not obsessed with those either. Because I'm like, You're completely manipulating like my childhood memories. And I just I don't know maybe I'm a damaged person. And this is like a trigger for me. But let's talk

talking about Rebecca are you talking about the live action Lion King now? Are there other ones? Are you just calling out Lion King? No, no, Mulan. Oh, yes.

happen to know like the live ones that they do that that are like on TV?

Oh, yeah. Those are the

Grinch with Matthew Morrison. Who based his Grinch off of the Joker.

Why? Every Grinch every Grinch other than the original. Didn't need to exist and where the hell is filled Bravo. Anastasia to do his yearly Grinch. PS.

Are we doing a show next week?

I don't know. I need Phil Brando's Grinch.

First we have to do a show.

Figured then

next week. All right. Anyone who anyone who knows this show knows that we are fans of the original Thurl Ravenscroft aka Tony the Tiger singing the Grinch song. Yeah, Boris Karloff doing narration Yeah, that's it.

But I will say I do love Jim Carrey as the Grinch. I know. That may be an unpopular opinion, but I think

that's unpopular. I mean, look, Jim Carrey is one of those people Well, they're like, amazingly talented, but like, I don't know, like, Okay. Ah, thanks. Sure. Can you watch that whole movie? Like the first three minutes are the funniest thing it's ever been filmed ever when he's that UPS guy, but the rest of it. I mean, really? Jim Carrey I either love him or hate him. You know what I mean? And what about us? He's a, he's a great Biden. I think he's a great but, you know, baby. I don't know what I don't know. I don't we don't I don't know how we got into this. Lee. Yeah, sure. Joey,

I saw in your bio, that you've been struck by lightning?

Yeah. Well, what we talk about?

Sure, can I It was the summer before my freshman year of college, I grew up in Florida, and you know, lightnings, a bit unpredictable. And I was walking my dog. My dog was on a retractable leash, I live on a cul de sac across the way I was getting the mail. Let me actually hit the tree next to me, and the current traveled underneath I guess, because of its roots, but it literally zapped my feet. I had welts and like lacerations going up my legs, and literally all my hair was like standing on edge. And I had to go to the ER and they ran a bunch of tests. But if it was a direct hit, I would have I wouldn't be talking to you right now. But yeah, hit hit the dog. The dog was fine. But this was so crazy because the dog was across the street on an island of Ireland of grass. But I jumped so high and so quickly when it happened, that my dog's entire collar came off over his head without snapping off. Like I did. Yeah, I jerked it back quickly. It was almost like a Houdini trick. And it just Yeah, it was it was crazy. And then I was so disoriented actually ran opposite direction in my house. All I could see was like checker boards in my brain. It was so bizarre. The flashlight ruined my vision for a good 30 seconds. I read opposite of my house. And by the time I kind of realized what happened I just literally collapsed within a by my front door. It was It was awful.

Could you watch it like could you even hear it? Was it so loud that you couldn't even hear it like your drums rupture? Yeah,

night my eardrums did not rupture. But it was extremely loud. It was like that. That pop of sound. And it was more so just ringing in my ears. were ringing nonstop after that, but

how is this not in your bio on your website?

I know. I feel like

it's on Amazon. That's where I Amazon book. I

did all her research Dave.

Joey. Joey. I was gonna write an about me. Yeah, I got struck by lightning that would be struck by lightning. It'd be like, Dave lightning Arnold.

I don't know. I want my other talents to speak for themselves. But I'm sorry. I put it I put it I put my book bio

struck right before you arrive on campus freshman year. You've got to be known as like the lightning kid though, right?

That's the lightning boy. No, I

was just known as the closeted homosexual. That was basically that's that was my college. No, I don't know. Because it's just it's Florida. Like how Florida can that story be where you just like casually you're getting the mail. And then lightning hits a tree next to you and you get struck? I don't know. It's just kind of something you brush it off. But Naples, Florida,

Naples. Yeah, yeah. You ever go to that big marble? Marble House? Where is that? Ringling Brothers and Barnum house that big giant Marble House. Isn't that Naples?

Now what's in Sarasota? Yeah, really?

Circus Circus is Sarasota. I thought one of their matches was down in Naples. Man. My memory gets bad as I get older. Maybe

there are a lot of random ass mansions in Naples, Florida.

I went you ever go to the circus in Sarasota? That was? That was fun.

I used to do that. No, I never never went

wild. Yeah. The clown college was there. Yeah, back in the day. And was Did you ever do your taste buds change at all? Or do you have any like lingering like temporary when you got hit by lightning? Was like seriously your sense of smell or anything get whacked out like did you have like some sort of spidey sense? Like when? I'm kind of curious.

No, the only like, sensory thing that I noticed right away is that all of the saliva in my mouth was just gone. Like it evaporated. So I mean, I might go to wasn't to go grab a bag of Cheetos. It was to you know, get rushed to the emergency room. But afterwards I I don't nothing was lingering. And even the doctor like you know, they did the kg. They did. The I think the I didn't even get an MRI. I don't even remember. But they ran a million tests, blood tests everything and I was fine. never noticed anything lingering. I wish I had a spidey sense that I developed Up to you know, after the fact but no,

yeah, well you make one up and then blame it on the lightning are attributed to the like,

every well you know what as I feel like I'm starting to slip mentally I you know I keep blaming the pandemic, maybe I should start blaming the lightning strike.

There you go. Alright, so before we get into the president one more thing from your past you did PR for TLC, which why is that called the Learning Channel? What does anyone learning on that?

It's not they rebranded it as just TLC, even when I was there, but they just didn't want to change it, I guess. So even though it stands for the Learning Channel, we never put that in any of our press materials, it's just always TLC.

And you ran the PR for a show that is currently ruining my life here in in my house because my son Booker is obsessed with My Strange Addiction only he thinks is freaking real. Can you just tell him that like, not to try to emulate any of these My Strange Addiction people, for real,

do not emulate but it's absolutely real. I'm telling you, listen, I know, it's not the magic of television. These are actual people who reach out to the production company during casting who have legitimate issues. And frankly, it's like, the only time they can get help. It's it's almost like a last cry for help. Either because they're uninsured or they just don't have the means to you know, to find a psychiatrist. But a lot of these cases are all of them were real. We just, you know, obviously had to go through the vetting process and make sure that they could be put on television. But it was the craziest experience. And I would work with the production team being like, Okay, which one of these lists of 12 people this season are, I guess sane enough to be on television and to press enter? That was my job is kind of gleaning zero and being like, okay, this person drinks their own blood, but they'd be great on Dr. Oz.

That That checks out that Tony. I worked for Dr. Oz for a summer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When he was still doing actual doctor work. He ran a lab at Columbia, where my mom's a Professor Doctor. And so I would get jobs at the at the labs. And you know, I was in his lab. It was crazy. Before he was big before he was famous, but it's kind of weird. He that's something we were also working with Dr. Jarvik who was you know, the person who made the purse first fake heart that put into somebody? Yeah, yeah, my mom's had a transplant was weird. Jarvik quack. Dude, I don't know. You see my man. He was a nice guy. But like, the research we were doing like it was we fundamentally so. So I don't know how many what you guys think of human hearts. But like the left ventricle is like the strong thing that pumps out to the rest of the body, right? It's like the strongest part of the heart because they could own where it pumps the blood out the rest of the body. And so they when your left ventricle is not strong enough, they make these things called LVAD. Left ventricular assist device devices. This is back in the early 90s. None, maybe not even maybe late 80s, early 90s. I can't remember. And so everyone's making these things. And so Dr. Jarvik came to Dr. Oz's lab, because they developed this one that was like, it looked like a little friggin mixer, dude, it was like an inline blender. And we're like, Yo, this is gonna, like, ruin the blood. Because blood. I don't know if you know, this blood doesn't like to be hacked up into tiny pieces, you know, I'm saying it's like, it wants to go gently. Like your your heart goes, boom, boom, blow up, not. We don't I mean, and so we were like, Ah, so like, they got this sheep. We put the sheep, the sheep, you know, to sheep. And, you know, we, you know, me and the other knuckleheads my age, were assisting them with the operation. And we have to take care of the sheep afterwards. She wakes up. It's like, man, boom, hits the ground dies. We're like, Yeah, it's blood. Yeah, we're like, Yo, doesn't work man. Doesn't work, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. You know what, you don't want to visit it like any place that they do animal testing. They have a place where you have to you have to dispose of the well the really sad thing is another summer I worked there. They were doing research, Nether Heart, heart transplant research, because you really when you're doing heart transplants, like one of the big things they've gotten really, really good at it, but when they were like earlier on, they used to have to try to figure out what kind of fluid they were going to put it in. Right so like, because they don't just like it, you know, they have to perfuse it with like, you know, like some sort of fluid to mimic bodily fluids so it doesn't dry out or get all nasty, as it's going in, literally in a freaking igloo cooler in an aeroplane, like helicopter Learjet. However they're getting it from, like the unfortunate donor to the lucky recipient. Like it's in this so like they were testing different fluids. So literally, we would get a pig They would cut his heart out. They would cut a piece of the heart, put it in the fluid and then take two little forceps and go and stretch it to see how stretchy the heart muscle was afterwards and try to back correlate that to how likely you were to be able to resuscitate a patient or get the heart started again. But the here's the bad part. I don't know if this is why I brought it up. We were not allowed to use the rest of the pig once a pig has been used for medical research even though we weren't putting any nasty stuff into it. It all had to go to waste at the

no Sunday morning bacon. That's sad. No,

although I have to say you guys know what a bogey is. So the bogey is like an electric car a cautery device. So like it's it looks like it looks like a little tiny like spatula like metal spatula. And like me and you like cauterizes things.

Yeah Timbo popper uses those

new doctors is more it's doctor is Dr. Pimple Popper the deuces for

no she's like way beyond that. She has a YouTube following of like 9 million people and has a show on TLC actually. It all comes full circle Yeah.

In my in my heart the only dermatologist is Dr. Z. So watching and stuff on anyway. Thank you doctors is more memories ads. Anyone remember his ads anyway? Yeah, it's like all these like, you know, classic, like New York mopey, New York types who are like, Thank you, Doc, this is more I like the love that anyway. And on the subway, like the picture of like, the poor like teenager with like, you know, like she had all kinds of skin problems and her with a big smile on her face afterwards. Thanks, octopuses. Anyway. So anyway, the issue is, when you're using one of these, when you're going to operate on a human, you use a scalpel and you cut, you make a nice cut, and you use the electrical cautery device to polarize leaders. You know, and then plus, we had what we used to call the Mr. thirsty, you know, the vacuum machine, like you would have at the dentist to like get rid of all the fluids, but the surgeons didn't care because the pigs were on their way out, you know, they weren't going to so they would they didn't want blood everywhere. So they would literally make the incision with the with the Bovee with the electrocautery device, and the whole room smelled like a mixture of death and and cooked pork. And so like every day I had to go out and eat BLTs just to reaffirm that I could still do this because it was so gross to me

what you were eating BLTs every day that you were working in this place.

I had to I had to look I didn't want to go clockwork orange on this thing right where I can't listen to Beethoven anymore so I had to like go out and deal with it. You know what I mean? Oh, wow,

yikes.

I would have taken a couple years

off stealing the me and bringing it out so I feel like this is a win for everyone but

they they would have caught you they would call you like we tried to use the parts so like there was someone like there was someone like a couple of floors down who's doing research on a different Oregon and occasionally they'd be like can we come up and get the president and we're like a

little crazies

yeah

I'm gagging oh my god it's like do you want a little formaldehyde with your you know ham hock

I wish we had the formaldehyde met dude it's makes this makes your Dissection Room in high school looks so mellow and then when you like like God bless the people who I mean whatever their when you when you're done with it you have to go to this place that we just have a sign on it necropsy room that's where all the animal carcasses went afterwards and oh my god horse. Like a complete a complete horror show. Like if you like we were very indoctrinated while we were going about the needs for vivisection for medicine and all this stuff. But if you have any anti vivisection inclinations at all, if anyone secret at a camera into the into the necropsy disposal room. Oh my God, it is a horror show. You know, it's like Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah.

Oh, I'm like you're triggering a PTSD because I took an animal rights class in college and I legitimately went vegan for two weeks after that, because I was horrified by what I saw. And now it's bringing back those memories. I was just gonna say thank you for you know, speeding up this what was supposed to be a 2021 diet. Yeah, yeah,

I'm nothing if not triggering right now triggering you bring up Yankee Candle two times in your book. Do they really have a farmers in Artscape scented Yankee Candle you better

believe it and you know how pissed off I am a bit their PR person hasn't caught on yet and sent me like cases of like, hey,

if anyone out there is listening St. Joe

this was free publicity for them. No they do. It's a farmer. It's called farmers market and I'm obsessed.

What's it smell like?

a farmers market? No, it's like, it's like sitting in rooms. Like,

oh, Joey, Dave and I have a farmers market Scavenger, not just scavenger hunt, Dave, where you have to catch all of that, that you have to find one hung over chef, a lesbian couple fighting about some type of fruit or vegetable children learning about strange things and the smell of lavender. What else was there?

Well, well, I'll just ask you. Do you want to pitch our other show? Where, like, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? But no final note? All right.

Just keep saying no. I do think you should publish the whole scavenger hunt list, like in the early spring in the booger index newsletter.

Yeah, that's a good news. Yes. Yeah. All right. All right. But we but we can never in public talk about our other show. Right. So

let's Okay, your PR person was on the phone.

Like the one week where you can't get away with us. Yeah, this is why I don't listen

to the show the rest of the time.

Sure, sure. So Joey, I forget where you say it but you express your your, well, you know, you're correct hatred of malls. But yeah, for anyone for anyone who's old enough. None you guys like there used to be a candle store called wicks and sticks. And it was not a mall without wicks and sticks. That is the 70s 80s Candle store like to be and I feel like I feel like like Yankee Candle they have their own stores Yankee Candle, right. They don't just they don't only sell like in other places, don't they? Yeah. brick and mortar. Yep. And they knock you back, right? So it opens a Yankee Candle door. Right. It's like, Oh, I love it.

I welcome it with open arms. I bathe in it.

It makes like Sephora smell neutral. It's like the

entire corner of the mall, like outside of Philadelphia like you could immediately tell when you were in like a 300 foot vicinity of the Yankee Candle store. I love it.

Amazing good brands I want to make I want to make a pitch for the wicks and sticks. Because I can't go into a Yankee Candle store because of like triggering. Like I'll pass out from the aroma but like they don't do a lot of figure. They don't do a lot of figure candles, right? That's why wicks and sticks was so awesome. You need an old man candle, which makes you need a candle on the shape of a weird kind of like, Dark Crystal Muppet bird. Like wicks and sticks. You know, I'm saying yeah,

were they sent it to reflect the shapes that they were to like, would there be like old Manson? Because I'm really into the idea.

Okay, so the so a flavor house that we used to work with David Michael had a ascent called like old man flavor and body and it was a whiskey flavor and

wanted to make Dave's musk scent, which is so disgusting. Remember that Dave?

Well, the ideas discussed I would cosign that I am personally I mean, I am disgusting, but not my aroma.

She was so into it. It's just so gross.

How do you do that? Do you take samples of like your sweat?

I don't know, man. I don't know. She's She's an expert. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Cleaning the chart claims that they saw someone having a seizure in Yankee Candle because of the smell. At least that's why they assume it happened.

That's amazing. But also I hope they're well, yeah, yes.

Thank you for being a human Joe.

That person's still alive. It's kind of rare when that happens. But yeah.

You're the North Star on the show.

To answer your question, Rebecca. No, the figures. They had scented candles that would have some steaks, but the figures were not sensitive. Because back in the 70s people would buy these candles and then not burn them. They would just sit on your shelf for decades. That's weird. Anyway. Right in the so if you get this book, which, by the way, like, I gotta be honest with you, Joey when someone pitched this book to come on, like, really? Come on, man. It's not our style. And I read it I have to say as a charming book, it's a book. And because I like the attitude, your attitude is hey, listen, like I spend all day like for work dealing with these finely nuanced freaking things. And sometimes I just want what I freakin want, and I just want it and we all do and you should embrace that and say it's accurate.

100% I always say I'm a professional eater, not a professional chef and I this book has actually been in education for me, I didn't go to culinary school I was learning things along the way I worked with the recipe developer and I'm the first to admit that so yeah, I wanted these no fuss recipes. But I also like wanted people to not be as intimidated by the kitchen because frankly, the majority of my cooking was done at three in the morning coming back from the clubs and kind of throwing things in a pot and seeing what happens. And I wanted these recipes to be translated into things that you can actually make or the general public can actually make but have them be fun and if they mess things up along the way you can like at least make fun of me instead of putting so much pressure on yourself so yeah, that's totally my tone is just good basic foods simple food foods that have you know you have all the ingredients in your pantry most of the time

well I think you're not afraid to you you're not afraid to be like listen by the sumac and like you know, you call for CO t han crema which kudos to everyone should have co T ha in their in their fridge for when they run out of their other grated cheeses but like, by the way, interesting call crema. You use crema several times and I did not know that that'd become like, like a general knowledge or is it not a general knowledge thing yet?

To just use cram? Ah,

well, we use a cram but honestly, I assume you meant like criminal Mexicana like the very like, yeah, the very Yeah, you could get like,

a good one. Yeah.

Is that general knowledge thing at this point? Or is that still like, rather, you need to live in the right neighborhoods,

um, almost kind of live in the right neighborhoods, which I felt I feel like that was the other kind of side of basic pitchin is that, you know, obviously, it's very, it's very simple. It's very approachable. But a true basic bitch also loves trendy things, you know, like she or she will be like, Oh, Moringa you know, I want to put that in my smoothie. And they have no idea what the hell it is. But because someone says it's gonna, you know, do something good for them make their skin glow a little bit more, they'll add it. So really, cram was one of those things, you know, you see maybe like, I don't know, and Sanchez, you know, cooking with it all the time. Like, Ooh, that looks good. It's creamy, and it's on Mexican food. Why the hell not? You know? So I'm thinking a little bit about it. It's become definitely more mainstream, but it's also one of those things that's like, extra

right? And in your book, you put things that are crazy is that you don't necessarily like can you do kale chips although you admit you actually like kale chips? I can do almost all I mean, like the whole kale thing I don't get I like cooked kale is green, but like kale chips aren't kale chips aren't bad, but, or like you have a, you know, you went through you say a whole bunch of iterations to come up with a smoothie that you found tolerable, right? Yeah, yeah. Yes, you're like you realize that your reader is going to want these kinds of things. So at least you want something it's not like

exactly, um, you know, that's the thing I wanted to tailor it around everyone's individual likes and preferences and I also wanted to take dietary restrictions into consideration because people participate either in fad diets or they just have genuine you know, health issues and I wanted everything to just be easy enough so that it was customizable but um, it's funny you say you like a cooked kale as opposed to a kill on its own because I actually prefer I don't like cook if I well, I should I should preface this by saying if I cook kale, I should be putting on a pair it depends also because it just does not work with my stomach. But the best kale salad that I swear will change your mind is at the Hollywood Roosevelt. It's so specific, I know. But they do a kale salad with a garlic vinegar red with like Parmesan cheese and pin shatta and pine nuts and currents. It is life changing if you hate kale just just fly to LA when you can go to the Hollywood Roosevelt and get their kills. I'm telling you, it'll change your mind and I make it now almost every Christmas so that sounds lovely. Ah, well

speaking of kale going through your system when it's cooked, you have a get your motor running recipe for your celery, green juice but is that the reason most people eat those things is to get their motor running because me I just drink espresso.

Yeah, there you go. I mean, so it's so funny. I actually just started drinking coffee because of those issues. I actually have colitis so I have to be very careful with what triggers a flare up. Um, trigger I feel like it's the key word for the day by the way. But I so I just now have become accustomed to being able to drink coffee. But yeah, I think but I do think beyond just intestinal benefits with a lot of these smoothies and juices that I put in the book. It really is just capitalizing on these health trends that like Kylie Jenner you know post about on Instagram was like this makes my skin beautiful. And while we can poke a tea, yeah. Tommy T Yeah. And while they like definitely poke fun in this whole book is you know, it's equal parts self deprecating, it's, it's also equal parts. No, there is some science behind A lot of these ingredients that are trending based on studies that were done that are supposed to help you with either your skin your hair, your nails, your you know your immunity. So that's why it's a little bit of both. Yeah,

I'm not I'm not I can't, like you and I were I'm not gonna get into health. I don't. I'm one of these guys who like I just like, I'm gonna eat stuff that's delicious. Yeah, a wide variety in moderation. And like, that's my only that's my only health thing that I will ever believe in. Yeah, like I say, we've gotten a huge argument Anastasia got very mad at me I believe in sports trainers have like very like, you know, performance based individually tweaked out for each individual human and blah, blah, blah. I believe all of that is true. So I'm not gonna get into it because I don't want Mr. Watson to get mad at me again. Just didn't get a tone for the book. Yeah, hi, Every book has your high Every book has like little things that they have in the sidebars or stuff like that, like, you know, anyone has written a book, we all do it right. But in this book, they are just the tips. Literally can't even the more you glow, and basic basics. So like, it gives you an idea of the and some of the tips actually pretty good. I have to say some of the tips or some of the tips are pretty good.

If I'm being honest to a lot of those tips, I learned as I was making these recipes, because again, I went into this kind of ignorant, I'll be honest, and when I would make something and throw like a dash of you know, hot sauce, and I would need that translated by recipe developer being like, okay, that's gonna be a quarter teaspoon. And so when I'm delving deeper into what I've been cooking all these years, I you know, was doing a lot of research and thinking what tips can I provide that I would have wanted to know, you know, as I'm making my own recipes, and that's how they that's how they happen. So it's my own ignorance that inspired

this episode brought to you by appeal here at Hrn. We care about reducing waste across our food system from farms to home kitchens, we know that about half of the produce we grow ends up in the trash, we all want to enjoy produce at peak freshness and reduce the amount that gets thrown away. That's where appeal comes in. Appeal is a plant based protective layer that helps produce lasts up to twice as long it's edible, invisible and imitates how peels naturally protect fruits and vegetables. Because here's the thing less waste doesn't just mean you were throwing less food away. It also means we throw away less water, energy and other resources that go into growing produce. Appeal works with nature to reduce waste across the food system from the farm to the kitchen appeal helps us to conserve our precious resources to ensure that we have fresh food to meet our growing needs. appeal. Food gone good learn more@appeal.com. Going over your recipes I noticed that a couple of interesting things like one is that when you make a dressing, not your Caesar actually like kudos to you like your Caesar is very like traditional which I feel like you never get a traditional Caesar salad. My

mom's Yeah, it's my mom's Caesar salad. Yeah,

and that is real while I enjoy what is called creamy Caesar now that is not a Caesar salad. It's not I mean, like it's good. You know what I mean? But yeah, like, real Caesar is a thing and it's, it's rather austere, and it's a thing of beauty. Although it means the anchovies if it's not done as the anchovies to me, it's not worthwhile, but that's me. I'm an anchovy lover I'm sure John has John you have probably like very what's it called very strong thoughts about the Caesar Don't you know? I do yeah. When