Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host for cooking users coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan in Rockefeller Center in New Stan studios joined as usual with Jean Hi doing tone Great, thanks. I called Eugene because I just said gene to my Siri. Siri doesn't know that jeans name is John. So and I'm walking to this place. And I'm like huffing and puffing because I ride a bike here. I say text gene Howell, which is not his name. And so then for about five minutes, John's name is still Jean in my head. I'm sorry, John. That's hard.

That happens a lot.

It shouldn't happen to me, though. We've heard each other for years. Yeah, that's true. I know. But yeah, I used to actually say it to other people.

Yeah. When I just don't want to deal with it and need to leave my name somewhere.

I told you, Dax doesn't bother mutilating his name. He just says his name is Jeff for Brad. Like when he goes to Starbucks, they're like, Max. No, Brad. That's it. Rockin the panels over here in New York, we got Joe Hasan, how're you doing? I'm doing great. Great to see you. Yeah, good to see you as well. And on Vancouver Island. We got Queen queen, queen, Queen Queen. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. You you doing some strong Q dragon work over there.

Yeah.

Nice. And together again in Los Angeles. We have the West Coast cooking YouTube crew we got Anastasia Lopez and Jackie molecules. How you doing?

Good. Good. And it's storming here.

Well, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

So now that you guys like as long as you don't drown your pro storm because you're reservoirs are filling like what's the story?

Think so? Yeah, but people are dying. So that's not good.

Yeah. There's no wins no, no. No, no winning the you know, the the new huge win is small losses, small losses in the new huge win. Did you know that? And in you know, our New Year's way of doing this our we're gonna shoot the breeze with our special guests. Our special guest today is Rebecca Flint marks the senior editor at eater eater at home beat how're you doing? Okay, thank you. Yeah. And I found out I just found out that we used to live before you move to San Francisco. You came back here to New York. What is it with San Francisco, New York, by the way?

Oh, man? That's a great question. I think for me, when I first started going to San Francisco as a New Yorker of about 10 years, I loved it, because it seemed to have a lot of things that New York added had a lot of good food. Really interesting people, people who read books, really pretty things to see things to do. And I think it's for me, it was like a more accessible New York, which is it's a that's a very New York bias, obviously to put on any place, particularly San Francisco because it is nothing like New York.

Yeah. So then, like, were you because I'm not gonna say like, who my family is like, well, maybe eventually, you'll maybe figure out if you know, my family. But it Yeah, they moved to San Francisco. They're like, I can do this. I can do this. It's like, you know, and then they're like, No, I can't do this.

Yeah, it's weird. It was I remember getting out there. And I first lived in North Beach, which, if you're familiar with San Francisco, even if you're not, you probably know North Beach is like a really beautiful part of town. It is one of the most beautiful parts of town you can live in. It's like everywhere. You're just surrounded by beauty as soon as you leave your home. And I remember walking my dog around the neighborhood and thinking to myself, all this useless beauty and I have no idea what to do. And I never felt more like a New Yorker than I did when I moved to San Francisco. And eventually I think what bothered me the most even though there was a lot I loved about the city was there was I missed the energy and I realized how addicted I was to New York's energy. You just cannot get that out there. If you go out there expecting you're gonna have even a modicum of that. Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna go crazy. If you even expect to have a 24 hour bodega. Yeah, that's the other thing. The streets are so empty. There's like nothing open past like nine o'clock at night. The neighborhood I was living in after knowing or after North Beach was no way Valley. Nothing. It was like a ghost town. And it was the eeriest thing in the world because I was like, I'm technically in the middle of a city. No real legitimate American city. If there's nobody on the streets here it was it was a strangest thing. I never could get used to it. It's bizarre.

It's bizarre. I get a feeling from what you said that you and I share a trait that Anastasia detests about me. And that is so mysterious here. When you say to me when I when you say to me, Hey, I saw the most beautiful sunset. What do I say? I've seen every sunset. Yeah, who cares? I've seen it all I see no sunset. I see the sunset. So what do you mean? Like I'm that guy that went to the Grand Canyon. And I was like, Hold on the ground. Nice. Let them left. You know what I mean? Yeah, it starts it's like you have no soul. My retina starts Is that roughly correct? Yeah, that's your but you do like trees, love trees. Because trees provide an ongoing an ongoing kind of calming effect on me. Yeah, you know, like they change over time I can like, I can observe them they provide with me with shade because the sun's my enemy. I'm half a vampire. You know what I mean? It's like, you know,

the sunset changes over time and provides you with shade because the sun is your enemy. The sun's going away. It should calm you.

It's correct. You're correct. You're correct. What Miss Darcy and I are like this in one way. I think maybe you'll agree with this, Rebecca, is that we hate it when other people do things because something else is beautiful. Because the weather is nice.

So you mean like, for example, well, so

like when the first day you know, the first couple of days is springy weather. And we now it's always like, it's always like, half a spring here in New York because away things happening. But it's like, you know, when everyone started saying that they could do XY and Z again, because the weather was nice. Anastasia would

Yeah, right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. hates that.

Yeah. Are you? Are you? Yeah, it's like it's like mandated that you have to do it. Yeah. Kind of takes the fun out of just doing anything spontaneously. And I'm one of these people who've everyone else is doing it. I don't I don't want to do it. I'm very contrarian that way. So ya

know, I don't know the three of us can go out. Well, great. We'll go to John's restaurants and it sounds like we could hang out and have a drink because we have

similar. We can be grumpy together.

Oh my god. If three grumpy people get together right. at a bar, do we? does is it grumpy? cubed or does it cancel? Is it like out of phase grumpiness? What do you think happens?

Oh, might just be a matter of like immediate self destruction. I don't know. Or it's like I can't even match. Watch out. Or you got Seinfeld? I think maybe that's what happened.

I don't think any of us I think it's all pass that's getting that he was gonna get that Seinfeld money. All right. So any of you guys have anything any This is the part of the show where we talked about food things that we've done

the past week Jack? Jack does Jack

Jack says Oh, yeah.

Trump you tell the story. Alright, so the quick so Peter Kim, who we all know friend of the show stayed at my apartment during the holidays in Los Angeles and Los Angeles while I was at John's apartment and Peter at a wild old time and I got home and there was a bottle of wine on my table which is very nice with a note and I noticed as I looked at the wine which I didn't recognize that it was 5% ABV which is really confused Anastasia.

So Diane, he brought your bottle of Chateau Diane what ran

red sweet wine it says on it and the weird name Lena Casa Rosa,

Gina of The Red House.

Yeah, yo 5%

What else Jack? That apartment was a mess.

Let me ask you a question Jack. Did does does this 5% Wine come with a baby bottle nipple on top of it. Like what are you supposed to do with this thing?

You didn't leave children's jewelry on?

Oh, that's hands. Come on.

No, no, we don't know. He went through. He went to a rave.

And then like, Yeah,

apparently went to a rave the night before and they had to rush out of the house. Like the record to say it but I love theater Kim and I'm thrilled he had a good time on my house. I'm not upset about any of it.

They still have raves.

Oh, yeah, sure.

But like, is it like, I'm trying to think is it like when you go to a rave and you're and you're like a young person? Let's say you're a young person you go to a rave? Is that the equivalent of like someone my generation going to see like a college presentation of hair or the musical? Like I mean, it's like,

no, no, we're still getting weird. Still getting weird. Yeah. And Peter Kim was there with them.

I can picture that in a in a very Yeah. That's a good story. Not necessarily food related. I was hoping for food related story. I guess the wine this wine related Gina? Was it Gina castle? Casa Rosso. Not Castle row, so she doesn't live in a castle. She's in a red house. Little Red House by the lane popping out that 5% ABV. What do you think she does so she don't sit with with sugar and water. She takes

aromas and flavors of Boyson berry creme brulee cherry soda float and strawberry a fun flavor packed right of balanced sweetness, acidity and varietals. Cara

John hold up. John, wait, John. Wait, John. John, back back up. That's one bottle has that

can you please read that list again? aromas and flavors of Boise and berry crumble a

cherry soda float and strawberry.

Oh, it late God Hey, Miss Darcy whenever we're in Los Angeles, where do we shop? Oh my god. Terrible. Really early. Oh my god, you know what? You know what? It's like someone at a flavor house was like, we only have a little bit left of all these flavors them all Yeah, dump them all together. Oh my god,

we're gonna see if that's every description of it.

Do you have it on you right now? Yeah, open it.

So it's really early here

painted for the crew open it and

it sounds like it's what you would get like at IHOP though when you mix all the syrup.

Oh my god. Oh my god there's some memories. Can you kick Did you already on crack it? Can you crack it on the mics? I can hear the cap. I want to hear the cap.

That is a real description that I put out there. It's in multiple places.

There we go. We're gonna Oh, it's kind of busy.

Oh my god. It's like, it's like it's like riuniti and filth.

Suppresses our soul and our hazmat.

Make sure you let it breathe. Completion

in a good way. Oh, if you were 18 or if you're if you're 18 When you get all cranked up on this or not?

Probably Probably yeah,

yeah. And go to like Okay, now that now you've had a couple of seconds. How poisonous is the aftertaste.

It's sticky boysenberry creme brulee notes coming through.

So like when I was

soda float would be

the tail and jelly sort of float. Got it?

I was accurate. I was too old for Four Loko. But the Four Loko equivalent when I was trying to buy things like this was called Cisco. And Cisco was like a 20% ABV wine cooler. And that had some poisonous aftertaste to it. So imagine trying to imagine if this if this gene of The Red House was 20 instead of five like what it would taste like because that's what we would have been drinking when I was a kid. Yeah, it's

funny because there's so much wine at every single store here. Peter would be like, this

one. Is he punking you?

I don't think it was wrapped in Christmas paper.

Favorite cost more? First of all, here's the order of cost. The most expensive thing in that is the bottle that it went into, because I know how much bottles cost. Then the wrapping paper than the liquid? You know what I mean? Yeah, wow. That's Oh, well, you know what? Dang, that was awesome. I love it. Now, Rebecca, I know that your beat is like things that people can do like at home, right? But on the other hand, one of your favorite things, one of the things that I've read of yours on Eater is to talk to restaurant folks, either after they come out with a chef's after they come out with a book or after they whatever and get a recipe that is good for home with them, right? Yep. But I have that doubt that's going to happen with Noma and I know Quinn wants us to talk about the normal clothing. No. Go outside my god. Orange for

reindeer hard. Find some like, yeah, in a blender.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, no, I have you been? I never know. I haven't either. Now, obviously, I'm never gonna go

I was gonna in the next two years. You can't come sure like that went like this all.

I mean, that's the thing. It's yeah, I think probably Yeah. Within the first 15 seconds.

The only time I ever had his food was you remember? Remember chord Tom. Sort of Oh, when Paul the true new prompt. Junie pront had forgotten that was that was where Shanta row was right. Yes, yes. So Shantou. Right, and then that closed, right? And then Cortana with Paul Lee Brandt. After he had left guilt, right. Yeah, we're guilty. The highest food costs, like like crazy food costs. I was talking to Paul leibrandt I don't know what he's doing these days. Anyway, I was talking to him. He was like, I'm not going to do his accent cuz I can't do like I can only you know, whatever. And I can do his accent. So like, he used to order those, you know, those freaking Scottish prawns that individually styro packed in water, right, like upright and right. And he's like, yeah, and they're half dead. So like, I was like, What the hell and he's like, I don't know throw my family. I'm like, what your what's his food costs? Were just like,

wow, Oh, wow. How is that sustainable? I guess it wasn't.

It's not. Yeah, no, but I think like there was an era and that's, well, that's, you know, to the point of the reds. Everything is like that was a point in time when, you know, it was still like people are trying to do this kind of like ultimate ultimate. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so anyway, so when he opened Cortana I think I went there twice. And one of the times, Rene Redzepi was doing a pop up at Cortana. So I that's the only time I've had his food, was it? It was good. Yeah, you know, it's good. At like, ay. Ay. Ay, ay. I like, high. I like high end. Food. I like seeing what people can do. But I don't necessarily, everyone's gonna hate me. Now. I don't, I don't enjoy it more than any other well executed thing other than I like seeing what people can do. I like the craft of it. I like the artistry and the thought I like seeing what the kind of apogee of like a certain kind of achievement can be. But I don't necessarily crave it.

I absolutely do not. I sound like a Philistine probably because I am. But I just I've never, I appreciate it from an artistic standpoint. I remember interviewing Corey Lee at Binu one. Yeah. And I mean, one never went, I only went to interview him. I cannot speak to the food I went to in situ his other restaurant was lovely. But I just remember thinking, like being in this sort of Temple of a restaurant space. I felt very conscious of what I didn't know. But also what I didn't actually crave. That makes any sense. Yeah. Like, I appreciate it. I really appreciate what people do. It is an art form. But I think for me, it's never been anything where I felt like I need to experience it for myself.

Well, I mean, also, like, there's a certain there's a certain aspect of anything that's kind of different, right? So like, I remember, like, you know, in the early 2000s, kind of the shock of this new style of cooking, and you're like, wow, and it is awesome, like the first like couple of times, not not not, you know, recepies stuff, but I mean, like what was going on in the early 2000s Here in the US, right, you know, writing the kind of Spanish invasion that came in. And it was truly exciting. And like that, the energy of cooking, and like learning these new techniques, and doing all this stuff was awesome. And you know, I was glad to be around the people that were doing it and I loved going out and having it because it was fun and all that. But again, you don't need to eat any sort of high end food that often it's, I think better when you when it's spaced out.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, when I lived in San Francisco, one of the best meals I've ever had was metal wood. I was fortunate to be able to go there go, yeah, it was really, really good. I mean, like, so I can appreciate that. Like, like, I was happy to have had that experience. Like Chris Kosta was lovely. The restaurant was lovely. Everything we ate was like, a small miracle on a plate. Yeah. But like, did I want to eat like that the next night? Absolutely not. You know, like, I find that that kind of thing. It's it's a little like fashion to me, you know, where it's like, I love like the feel of like, say like a designer coat that probably cost like $7,500. Right. And I love knowing it's there. I love like, experience it in some way. But am I gonna go out? And like, try and emulate that on a daily basis? And you know, wear something like that? Probably not? Well, the

problem is also for me, like, I would just wear it every day and become filthy unposted and then people be like, Why are you What? What? Yeah, I'm not gonna buy a new thing every day.

Because 75 on a dog dust rag basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So no, it's like, I think there's a place for it. And it's interesting, you know, all these discussions people have been having around the closure of Noma, what does this mean? For fine dining? I mean, there's always going to be a place where you're always gonna have people who are gonna, like, want to jet around the world and go to these restaurants that they can collect, like, runes, you know, and that's great. But, and, you know, and I think that kind of cooking should still be there. Because again, like fashion, you see it trickle down, right to where it influences a lot of different chefs that a lot of different levels. And so in some way, the wider populace, you know, gets to partake of that in some way, shape, or form. But, you know, when I read that Noma was closing, I didn't really have any reaction to it. I mean, it's like, it's like, yeah, it's end of an era, for sure. But it's it's a really, it's a complicated thing, you know, so maybe if I had been there, maybe if I had felt a personal connection, I would have, I don't know had a different reaction. I

also never ate it. Oh, boy, I should have gone because of my job. The problem is, is that because of my job, I should have gone. Like, that's the issue. I'm that kind of a jerk, which is what Anastasia always tells me. That is like, you need to go out more, right? Yeah.

But you never ever want to go out Louise.

Do you know where he's still never been?

Oh my god. All right.

Draw Yeah, it's really I have

I have been, I have been just not when the how many restaurants or whatever will I tried to go

to if I'm just always gonna give you a hard time about this until you kind of you just need to accept it.

You need to go to restaurants. I don't understand why you work in food if you don't go to restaurants

or bars. Yeah, I really don't even like food or food people.

I like I love food. I'd love to. I hate people.

Yeah. Jeez, Louise. All right. All right. So Quinn, is that enough? Is that enough? Normal talk was that now you're expanding?

That I thought it was noteworthy to talk about

it is noteworthy. Sure. You know, I wish I could have gone I would have liked to have gone. I would like

to go to Denmark, period. It would be nice to stop at Nomo. Well there.

I was there for two hours. Was it? Yeah. The train station? Amazing. Not really. Train Station. Absolute flew us in to Copenhagen. And then we took a train to scorner to visit where they grow the wheat and where they make the absolute. And their end of my Copenhagen story. Yeah. Right now is this great story? Yeah. Yeah, I can say this. Danish sounds weird. It's weird. It's like It's like sounds like a cross between like an actual Scandinavian language in German. It's weird.

I don't know. closest I've ever gotten was Finland, which I loved it. Oh, yeah. Highly recommend love to go. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, Helsinki. Go in the summer. When it never gets dark. It is an astoundingly beautiful place. Especially if you're into Art Nouveau architecture architecture in general. Yeah. Design and food. The fish market there. It's open air fish market go to buy this beautiful smoked fish and go eat it in a park. It's heaven.

smoked fish. Yeah, yeah. I like finished TV shows. I forget the name when I go watch all the usually a finished cop show. No, no, I forget the name of it. Whatever. Whatever. You know, when you watch something at like one or 2am It's like, You're half asleep anyway, so you know you've watched it, but you can't remember anything about it. Does this happen to you?

Yeah, that happened to me last night. I was trying to watch tar. said about it's Cate Blanchett movie that came out earlier this year. She plays the orchestra conductor. Oh, yeah. Who basically yeah, it's it's it's sort of her downfall. The movie is about that. People love, love, love this movie. I was fortunate to get a screener of it. And it took me three sittings to get through. Because I kept falling asleep.

But is that like because it was boring? Or because it just the time of day?

A little bit, but let's say it's a little bit both. Yeah. She's great. She's great.

She's Oh, yeah. And she's. She's great. Yeah. Great. Great.

Yeah. Just wasn't keeping me as awake as I Yeah.

Well, I also noticed that you you wrote and I have to say, maybe Anastasia. When you were younger? Did you watch movies? You stopped watching them because you hate going to them and you don't like like cable? Did you use to watch movies? Or were you never a huge movie person? No. I guess they're on mute. But you know, any modern movie? She's like, I don't watch that. Really? Not? Yeah.

Oh, I mean, I'll see I'll I'll go see pretty much anything. Yeah, within reason. She doesn't like movie theaters. Oh, well, I'm I agree with that. I used to love movie theaters. I used to, like love going to the movies

love if she can unmute her mic or whatever. Like I'm listening. Like, what is it that you hate about movie theaters? It's not the COVID What is it?

The people hands in bags of chips and the sound of them chewing things and laughing

any signs of humanity.

So she actually prefers a COVID movie theater because there's fewer people doing that

know or watching at home or a private screening room, you know,

but you also don't like the idea of paying something you don't like the idea of streaming either very much.

I don't watch things because I don't like to feel things. I did watch the menu though. I was often came over to my house and had dinner and he was like, you have to watch the menu and oh my god, have you all seen it? You know? Yeah, crazy.

Yeah. What's it about?

I'll let the guests

Well, I will preface this by saying without Noma we would not have had the menu. Because the menu is all about fine dining. It's about a chef played by Ray finds. Who has a very exclusive restaurant on a small island and only a few guests at a time come to the island. So on this particular night, he has his guests come to the island and without wanting to give away any spoilers basically serves in the mail they will never ever forget. It is very very, very funny. It's You know, it's a dark satire.

I'm guessing people get eaten. No surprise, surprisingly, but

it is, you know, there is a certain level of bodily harm that is that is exaggerated among crazy Dave, you

have to see it. You all have

to see. It's great. Well, let me ask you this so back when you were younger, Anastasia, did you ever watch the movie, baby boom, that was I just missed that. I was not watching rom coms when I was a junior in high school when that thing came out. So it's like it exactly like later in life once I became a more integrated human being I'm like the rom com quiz. You know what I mean? But like, as a you know, a full of angst you know, alternative music listening like suburban, like white kid in the in the mid late 80s. I was watching rod happening. Yeah, but you so but do you watch that stuff? Does anyone hear a baby boom a baby when fam. And he

watched it last year? I watched it last year. I didn't watch it when it came. All right.

So you so you and Rebecca need to talk. So what's your premise with the baby? I mean, what is it about or like? What like what you're saying? It's like it's it was predictive of a larger? Oh,

sure. Yeah. I mean, and I didn't even realize this, because so I first saw baby boom when I was a kid. And so to me, it was just this fun movie with Diane Keaton moving to Vermont. It was great. I loved it. I couldn't, I didn't really know why I loved it, except that it was fun. And it was only as an adult after years and years of like, covering the New York food scene and just the food scene in general that I went back and watched. I was like, Oh my God, this movie completely predicted like the arts artisan food boom. Because the whole premise of baby boomers that Diane Keaton is this like high flying career lady who basically inherits a baby from a dead relative as you do like a literal, actual living baby. And decides initially, she's not going to keep it then she decides she's gonna keep it. And basically, that interferes with her high flying career as some sort of consultant. I'm not exactly sure what kind but in any case, she ends up quitting her job. She's kind of forced out by the men there. She ends up leaving New York for Vermont, buying this like 200 year old farmhouse with these apple orchards and starts making baby food like applesauce, basically. And it turns into like this whole, like company, so it's like she's marketing and it's like this artisan applesauce baby food and people start buying it becomes this whole thing. And there's like this rapid montage of like the business grind and grind and grind and eventually, yeah, she's like the owner of this like Artisan baby food company. That's weird,

because that never would have happened in the 80s. But totally could have happened in like, oh, seven. Yeah,

right. Right. But so it was it was eerie like watching this. I was like, oh my god, this is like the artisan food boom. playbook. Like all that was missing was like a stall at like the New Amsterdam market or something. And it was our Smorgasburg It was crazy. Yeah, yeah. So it's, I love this movie. It is a flawed movie. I'm not gonna say it's a perfect movie. It's Nancy Meyers movie. Nancy Meyers movies have certain issues that attend them, but that's okay. It's like it's just a really fun movie. I love it.

And what what art form does not have its issues. I mean, this is this is true. Yeah, this is true. Especially anything that I watched when I was a kid. When you go back and watch you're like, oh, it's

all Oh, God. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I one of my favorite things to do is watch movies that I watched as a child and sort of pinpoint Oh, that. That's really problem.

What percentage of the things we gotta get back to what percentage of things you watch when you rewatch them? Are you like, flawed, but still good?

Oh, gosh, I would say probably 35 to 40% are still good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I maybe I'm being generous, but that that's the number that comes to mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta you have to cut out the John Hughes movies. That's the main thing just yet. Don't Don't try and count the John Hughes movies.

Now. I wonder stuck? What about you? What do you think is a holdup number?

Oh, God, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm thankful when a movie still holds up at all. Like, I will. Like I was like, because you know, when you have kids, right? You know, Joe, you're just gonna happen to you, right? You, you show your you go back and you watch these movies you love when you were a kid and you're like, do I need to look at it first. Like what's going to happen? Like, assume sexism and racism? Look straight, straight out the gate. You know what I mean? But then you're like, is this still even going to be funny, right? I mean, so like, you show the Blues Brothers to you know, my kid. You know, my kid DAX was like a thank God means still funny. You know what I mean? The music is still great. Yeah. You know what I mean? But yeah, so it's hard. It's hard.

I just watched the money pit. It was it still good? Still good. Still. It's still very funny.

I think Wendell Pierce had a cameo and yeah, that was great.

What's the worst movie you've rewatch where you're like, oh, wow, stinker.

Bye. There's a lot of them actually.

I mean, one you legitimately liked when you were a kid.

This happened to me with Space Jam. bad movie.

Oh God, literally, but like you legitimately thought it was good when you were a kid. Of course he says, Great. Bass jam. Bugs Bunny in the Martian and Michael Jordan. Yeah, yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. And was it was that an old Mel Blanc who couldn't do the voices anymore? Or his kid who can't do the voices?

Oh, good question. I'm not even sure. Let's see.

Nothing's more sad than Mel Blanc not be able to do his own voice. Yeah. Yeah. What movie does kind of like still hold up and I was when you were talking about the the menu and I haven't seen them in new yet. But the cook the thief, his wife or lover? I didn't like that when it came out. Because it's so gross and boring. And there's that one scene where they're eating the body. And yeah, then you watch it again. You're like, wow, this is a masterpiece. It's like a play on

film. Oh, yeah. So when I was like, 19 When I saw it, you know, in an art house thing at college. It was already a couple years old. My movie ghosts are going to eat the J bar older. Boring. You know what I mean? I hated it. I liked Tampopo though. I'm sure that's still good. Tampopo holds? Oh, yeah. Yeah. The worst movie that I liked as a kid, Crocodile Dundee, that is a dumpster fire from start to finish.

I keep showing up on HBO Max. For some reason. Both of them. They should put in HBO min. Yeah. No, it's crazy. HBO Max is like a treasure trove of now kind of dodgy movies. But also, Jim. Yes. So many silly

criterion stuff keeps showing up on there. And what it says?

Yeah, yeah. Food, food. Yes. Food. All right. So, one, so one of the things that you see my What do you guys call it? First of all people, people are going to want to know, moving from being a writer to an editor at like a huge place like eater. What's that? Do like that? What's the difference? Like? And if I'm pitching an article to you, how does that work? Like, what's the best way to pitch an article to you?

Just email me, basically email me. So technically, that is the way to pitch an article to me. The better way to pitch an article to me is to email me but you also do your research before you pitch your article. So what does that mean? What does that mean? That means? So I mean, it's funny. I've talked to students, like journalism students writing students about this before and like, I think the biggest thing is like, why should I care about your story? Like, why? Is it timely? Does it tell me something? I don't know. Or that, you know, I think probably a lot of readers don't know or don't understand. Why are you the best person to write the story? Do you have some sort of experience with the topic you're pitching that would make me think you should write this? Also? Is it a story? Or is it a subject that you're pitching me like, you know, there's so much that goes into it? A lot of people, you see this a lot with food, you see this a lot with food essays, more than anything else, a lot of people pitch essays where it's like, you know, I learned to appreciate, say porridge because a family member died. And this got me through my family members. And I'm making this up as this natural pitch. This is not an actual pitch. It is an amalgam of many, many, many pitches I've gotten. And I do not mean to diminish the people who are sending these pitches because we all have a story, right? We all have a story, we want to tell you please porridge with kanji. And people want to read it though. That's true. It's true, though. And this is the thing though, there's become a certain paint by numbers approach people take to food writing and food essays where it's like, and again, I don't mean to sound glib here, but it's you notice certain patterns, when you get a lot of these pitches. It's like people want to talk about things that have happened to them, whether they're good or they're bad, usually bad, actually, people are far more inclined to want to talk about the bad things that have happened to them, which I do understand, as a writer myself, this is how you work things out, right? But they want to talk about it through the prism of food, and it can be done well, you know, obviously, we've seen plenty of examples of this being done really, really well. But a lot of it isn't really executed well. And a lot of it comes from not really a solid idea of you know, how do you tell a certain story, it's a very it's I think it's one of these things that looks really easy when you read it on the page, because you're seeing this great finished product that's very cohesive, it's probably been edited a lot. The writers probably also really good a lot of people think it's easy to do it is absolutely not easy to do so like or to do well. So yeah, when when people pitch me I want to know like why why you why the story

is the main problem with that whole kind of genre that it's very difficult to understand what's going to be interesting to people who don't know you or care about you.

I mean, I do think when you are writing a personal essay there is there is an onus on the writer to like make it universal as they say like, like even even say like a terrible tragedy happened to you? This happened to you, but like why this was kind of I'm gonna sound like a jerk when I say this, but like, why should anyone else care? Like what what will readers like look at in the story and be able to take to their own lives or how will resonate to a wider audience. And I think that's the thing a lot of people don't understand is like, what separates what you're pitching me from something that belongs in a diary? You know, and I think that's what a lot of people don't get past. But

yeah, I'm sure most of I'm sure most of you get just kind of is not good.

I mean, frankly, you know, it's, it's not where it needs to be.

But is I think, I feel like there's more of a place for that kind of writing to be great now than there was, let's say 3030 Something years or so like, you know, I think I forget which anniversary but it's coming up because a publicist sent me something. Nora Efron's both Harper, and I'm gonna be writing about that. Oh, yeah. So like, that's what is it? 3040 40 All right. Wow, Grace, Louise Louise. No, yeah. So you know, the 40th anniversary come out. And so like, you know, whenever someone sends me something, and I find it interesting, I poke around a little bit. And I read all 83 I read all the reviews from 83. And I was like, wow, like people are even people who liked it. Little, little book little this little, like always belittling Yep. Because it was something that was and then I saw, you know, an interview she did, like a year or two before she died talking about it. You know, basically, you know, basically saying II, like they call it like a thinly disguised. Did you read that interview? She gave what she's like, well, so she's like, saying, yeah, they say thinly disguised? Because I'm a woman basically. Yeah. And they're like, you know, it's a gendered thing. You know what I mean? And so, I don't know, I just thought was interesting. I think there's probably more space for people to be good at that now. And not have the work. But little do you agree with that, or? No,

absolutely. Ya know, and I think I think that's one of the things that's been great about how it's evolved is like, we are seeing like more voices, like we're hearing from more people who you would not have heard from at all, like 4030, even like, 10 years ago, you know, so that part? That's great. That part I'm absolutely in favor of? And I absolutely do think that food writing itself more generally has started to become taken far more seriously, you know, in the last 1015 years, and, and I do think, you know, yes, a lot of the prejudices against it were because it was considered not serious. A lot of women wrote about food, you know, a lot of women ran food sections. It was a domestic art people didn't, didn't take it seriously. So you get somebody like Nora Ephron, who's writing about the dissolution of her marriage, you know, talking a lot about food, and it's seen as this like, I mean, also just objectively funny person, good writer. Funny, like, yeah, like, everyone should read this book. It's a great book, you know, and everyone honestly shouldn't be really impressed by somebody who can be that funny while writing about something that is really, really difficult. I mean, this is like a terrible time in her life. Her husband leaves her she's got two small children, you know, but she, she makes it, she makes a great book out of

it, but her famous husband, oh, my God. And I saw him at a party once I used to work with their son. Really? Oh man, Jacob. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. So

I mean, anyway, yeah. It's really easy for though or was really easy for people to belittle that kind of write it still is, I mean, there's plenty of people who still belittle that kind of writing I think you also see that a lot. Apply now to food blogs, you know, you get that that sort of people love to complain about how you have to scroll and scroll and scroll to like a recipe on a food blog as if it's like some sort of like great burden, but like what they're really skipping over is like usually it's a woman who's like writing this food blog, writing you know, about like, what the recipe means to her, her family, etc, etc. And people people just do not want to read it they want to get straight to the food blog. So you still are sorry, the recipe so you still see that for sure.

That's a weird one. Because there's like been a backlash to that and then a backlash to the backlash Yeah, I don't know where that they don't know where we are. Right now.

We I think we're just in the middle of like infinite backlash cycles.

My point is that if someone's written a recipe that you know, whatever, man, just like you had them present it to you

just scroll. Yeah, the scroll. It's like you have a thumb most likely so just like just scroll. It's really not not a great burden.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you and you're trying to give me information.

Yeah, sure. Like how dare you try to make living through your advertisements, which also depend on you like having a lot of content actually to give me

I have found that and I'm 100% sure I'm guilty of this, but people who don't have to make something from nothing. Don't understand. how hard it is to make something from nothing. Oh, exactly,

exactly. It's gimme, gimme, gimme it sort of reminds me of I used to talk to chefs about this one when back when I was at the village boys, you know, we would do these, like the village boys had a big like, I think it was I forget the name of it. But basically, we had a bunch of chefs come to the armory, serve a bunch of food to like a giant crowd. And it was like tasting New York filling. Yeah, thank you. And I remember talking to chefs, you know, who would be at these things and it gets so frustrated with like, the people who show up because you get people who would just come and like, take all the little plates and or, like, you know, whatever was on the table they thought they were entitled to like all of it was just this entitlement and this sort of like mindset of like, gimme, gimme, gimme, I don't care about what's gone into making

it Anastasia has worked plenty of those rights does. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, is that like, what I don't like is it's gonna sound terrible. But when you're working one of those stations, right, Mr. Watson I ever do this we put all of our energy into the product and like we never fluffed out our table. Right everyone else we'd look around and we're like, Oh my God. We were in an event once and John short literally, John George showed up in a sailor's outfit looked a lot like Joe Hasan is looking today in a French sailors outfit. And I'm gonna get by you the hat Joe. Anyway, like, he had the hat the whole thing you know, the little Anastasia, and we're like, oh, we suck. We suck. Remember that stuff. Anyway,