Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by white oak pastures a five generation Georgia based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information visit White Oak pastures.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network join as usual witness Tasha hammer Lopez how're you doing? Today right how you doing? Good. How are you? You ever you don't talk much on the air? No, I'm already seeing stars when I rudely interrupted you as is my want.

Nothing?

Yeah. Anything good going on? No, I was I was just looking up the pasta recipe that I asked you to look up the oh and you're looking through we got the shows you that have never written a book before which was me until like a month ago. The publisher comes out with this thing called a bladder lay book layout and design things. So we're just looking at just came in the bladder for the new cocktail book coming out in November, November, November. You know, those books are coming out in November. And for those of you who don't like it takes forever to get a book out because they like even though it's already done. They they go through a bunch of revisions and copy editing and then they send it overseas to get printed and then it has to get shipped back and need to have it in the country for a little while before they ship it out. But boop boop boop boop Ah, so when you're going through a kind of traditional publishing route, it sure does take a long time doesn't seem like it takes longer than then you think it looks does? Yeah, definitely. Especially today. It's like it's done now. Yeah, we're done with it done. Now we like we just want to want to come out but we have some good friends with books coming out in November. I can't remember all look a bunch of good ones like Brooks. His book is coming out in October November. The same publisher that hit pressure cooking book coming out bunch of good stuff coming up anyways. Anything good happened? past couple days. Anything horrible. No, no, that's good. Nothing good. Nothing horrible. I got this one off of the Twitter sent in. It's Not a question. It's more just a hey check this out from AD Jim Guarneri writes to us. And I haven't told you about this yesterday because I want to get your direct reaction. So it's it's from, I don't know whether it's live science or live science is the name of the website and the reporter is Charles Choi and writes about this baby poop bacteria helped make healthy sausages and the tag the tag the title line of the of the article, pepperoni, pepperoni. Because what they're doing is some scientist in England we're trying to get the most kind of probiotic so you know, when you ferment sausages, right, one of the things you're looking for, well the primary thing you're looking for is dropping pH so that you can inhibit unhealthy things from growing in it by having the pH low enough that they won't grow. So typically you get lactic acid bacteria and they also produce that awesome kind of lactic acid flavor and then the question as a sausage maker is where do you fall? Do you like a more acidic sausage a lot of Americans tend to do kind of hardcore, like really hard pH dropped fermented stuff, I think because they liked the tang and also because you know, it's definitely helps enhance food safety, whereas, you know, I knew a lot of people who also like a really kind of mild less tangy sausage, but they have to play more with you know, making sure that they're on the safe What do you like better 10 You're not taking on fermented sausage.

I don't think I care how they was like and both

I'm only going to get so so tangy that the meat kind of gets granular and breaks up weird. You're not talking about oh, sometimes I like it. There's some like citrus. Some citrus strapped dried sausages would like that have like, like noticeable acid flavor to them other than just lactic and those that kind of like even though they're crumbly, whatever, anyway, that's not what I'm talking about here. So the point is that these researchers in in the UK I think as UK said, well, listen was growing back there and talk like that. They're they're like, Listen was growing bacteria inside the sausages anyway. So what if we doped it with some probiotic stuff so that we can say that it helps your intestines, you know, helps you poop or out while you're doing it? Right? And so they figured who's got a lot of those, you know, probiotic stuff without a lot of pathogens. Babies and so they, they, I guess, like took a bunch of baby diapers and cultured stuff out and found some bacteria from the baby diapers that they thought were good and they started inoculating it into making the pepperoni What are your thoughts?

Since reading this,

I mean, what do you do now? Like with first blush, would you you wouldn't have a problem with pepperoni. Would it mean it's been cultured so many times? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, San Francisco sourdough, like, you know, one of the one of one of the main, back when they did testing, which is decades ago, they tested for strains of bacteria in the in the sourdough starters. And one of them was, you know, the, its main substrate is the gums of people with periodontal disease. Yes, yeah, I

wrote that.

That's even grosser, right? You'd rather you'd rather pepperoni than the periodontal disease like you know, yeah, yeah. Why? I don't know. Like, why is it like that? Oh, well, I mean, look, it's so far removed anyway. And like, you know, that like the most shocking the most kind of disturbing passage in Modernist Cuisine, for those of you that have it is the one where they describe the the experiment done in the submarine, where they take all the sailors in the submarine and they give them a check in the you know, a but uh, but check to see that on air, they check their butts, and they they put a a phosphorescent powder in on their behinds, right? And didn't tell him about it. And then a day later, they took a a black light and walked around the sub submarine, whole freaking submarine lit up like like a freaking club with the blacklight. Like showing the phosphorescent dust, all the eating that I'm saying, You are so thoroughly coated with like, all kinds of like nastiness, people touching their face, people touching their mouth, people touching their butt, people touching the ground, and then wiping all over every surface and then you touch that serve. I mean, my thing is, like, look, I got mental issues, like, not just cooking issues, people I have some mental issues on like, for instance, public restrooms, like I can't use it, but I know that it's irrational. I know that my fear and disgust of public restrooms and of touching faucets and knobs in public restrooms and areas like that. I know that it's illogical, because I know that that stuff is everywhere, but I just can't kick it. You know? I don't know. Where you. You don't like a public restroom, either. Nobody likes it. If you like if you like someone can call and maybe they're like, oh, by the way, if you do have a question related to cooking, call it in to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 a sort of tagline is, the baby poop helps actually make the sausage more healthy, more healthy. It also reminds me the interesting case, remember that article that Nicki sent us about the salt risen bread and the Clostridium perfringens and the guys in that right after World War One. They had saved some culture from a soldier who had died from gas gangrene, this like Clostridium that like, you know, like, ate this guy's leg and like blew it up with gas stuff like that. And they made bread with it well, and they ate it. And they didn't die apparently. Well, I mean, they're dead now. We now they're dead. At class, right wrote in last week nine time for the last thing he says at cooking issues if you can read a list of microplane uses that you could think of in the style of John macheda. That will be great. You remember him? I can't I can't do it. I can't. I mean, look, if I had a script, and I memorized it, maybe I could talk as fast as he can. But he's the guy in the FedEx commercial who's like, you know, got it. Good. Got a good deal deal. Remember this. Now? You're too young. For any of you that were alive in the 80s. And remember these FedEx commercials. He was like a super fast talking guy on the telephone who had just nonstop like stream of craziness. They're awesome commercials. I just watched him this morning on the YouTube, you get a refresher on it, and they're still good. I like a commercial. It's still good. No, yeah, no, I'm

alright.

So here are some. Here's some uses at class. And these aren't my own uses. These are just, you know, obvious uses for microplane. So by the way, when you buy a microplane before I get into it, you know, there's various different sizes of, they're not just physical sizes of the microplane unit itself, but actual differences in the way that the cutting teeth are arranged that ribbon slicers they of course, slicer. You know, of course, graders they have fine graders, they have ultra fine for spices and stuff like that. I tend to use mainly just the normal fine one, which I use for this and that but I mean, obviously there's a lot more uses if you're getting some of the coarser ones if you want to great things like apples and carrots stuff. I don't I don't do that much. You use a lot of microplane? No, really. But like,

you're against it, you just use it for Parmesan cheese.

But that's about it. That's it. Okay. So, file like most of these things under under I didn't come up with any like killer ones that I hadn't already known about. I'm sorry about that at class, but anyway. If someone's at cliches conquest Yeah, yeah. Class Yeah. So obviously spices right so you got your your nutmeg or cinnamon your Balinese long pepper your greens of saline or as they say in a wall of ginger, like what are hard spices you got a lot of a lot of hearts but any hard spice that's big enough to hold in your hand you could do right me pretty much I wonder where the colonists would be good I don't really like kola nuts but I bet you could read them anyways. Obviously any hard product fatty hard product like chocolate or hard cheese does zest any any kind of zest I mean, horseradish if you want a real fluffy horseradish I wouldn't do it with with sabe because I don't think you can great a fine of however, if you have another mortar and pestle thing but you don't have like the like the good old Sharkskin thing degrade into a fine paste wasabi. A good approximation is to take the wasabi great at first in a microplane, and then grind it in a regular mortar and pestle because it breaks down the fibers to the extent that you can get a good paste grind afterwards. Most people don't think about this, but very, very, very few. Grinding technologies or blending technologies are good at reducing something from a very large particle size to a very small particle size, a whole range of particle sizes so sometimes a dual a dual action thing like that is necessary now the shark skins guys are good because they fundamentally abraded like sandpaper but make it easy enough to get the stuff out after it's done. So it's ideal for that. But if you don't have that, you could probably do a pretty good job by micro planning first and then mortar and pestle and with a standard western style mortar and pestle. I wouldn't mean like at home I don't really use standard mortar and pestles. I have a mocha days for things like guacamole and garlic and stuff like that, but it'd be too coarse I'd lose so much wasabi and the price would make me so angry. But anyway, horseradish, other hard stuff like coconuts, but not if you need too much. Can you imagine having to grade all that all that stuff on that shoot, shoot, shoot, they have the rotary one, but I don't have it anyway. Also not like larger nuts that you can if you want to like a little bit of graded walnut graded often things like this. Obviously things like ginger are fantastic people first and anything related to ginger, any rhizome related to ginger, so you got your Tumeric you got your galangal which, you know, people don't use enough fresh galangal they really don't Tumeric we just did a bunch of demos with it, I can understand why you wouldn't want to use fresh Tumeric because it stains the hell out of everything. Although I use some it didn't have as much of you don't even realize this people Tumeric the amount of flavor seems kind of directly related to the color intensity. So we had a batch that had a very low color intensity, and it had much less flavor per gram than than the ones with the higher color intensity. I hadn't realized that maybe someone else has some experience with this and I can tell me a lot of people do garlic. I don't you ever garlic, garlic, microplane. I've never done it. Me. I'm sure it'll work. But I know when I secretly I hate chopping garlic. I do too.

I hate it. I hate it. I just hate it. I hate handing it off to somebody.

I hate it. You know? You know what I hate? I hate that. I hate that that weird sugary sticky paper sticks to you and paper sticks to the knife after you smash it. I just don't like it. I hate it. I don't like smashing it. I don't like I still don't like dealing with it. I really don't mean I love the flavor of it. But you know, maybe I'll try something okay. I've never tried katsuobushi but I'm sure it would work you know obviously not for what you normally use it for and dashi. But if you want it to like great, a little bit of katsuobushi over the top of something I'm sure that'd be great. That's Dr. Bonito for you other folks out there. I have tried it with dried Chinese scallops and it's fantastic for that as a finishing thing. I've tried it with bottarga which is great because the target is so freakin expensive that you want something really accurate like a microplane, that you can make a fine grading of the photogra over the over the, you'd like to toga. I do both like the mullet and the Tony like a boat or you don't know the difference, right? It's mountain Turner the to write that they do. I know it's moderate. And I think the other one is tune I think it is. I don't buy anymore, but the price. But when I was like, like 1516 years ago, I could go to the international grocery on 40th street and buy it for like, I don't know, I could buy like a whole row sack that can be tuned because it's so small, but I buy like a whole rose sack for like I want to say like 20 bucks or something like that. You know what I mean? And it's like, so expensive. Now it's just so damn expensive. It's like 100 It's like over $100 A pound that stuff. It's crazy. I like it though. So then you got some cool thing cool things like a co they opened they opened they had that frozen foie gras where they froze the lobe and then they microplane the frozen frog right over the top of stuff. That's a good use. You got your Ferran Adria did his cauliflower couscous with a microplane where he grates just the tips of the florets off and they look like couscous. People seem to enjoy that I've never done it widely used to microplane a he used to take Joanne and set it like Jelena you know the hydrocolloid, who gel at really high percentages, like 3% Which by the way, if you're not a hydrocolloid head, freaking on heard of like dance, dance, dance, dance, but he used to then grate it like bottarga he would like make different flavors of this like I don't know if he still does it, but it's a technique he used for quite a while also frozen meats or fish. If you want like a little bit of that flavor over you want to incorporate it in, you can just great with a microplane, and America's Test Kitchen recommends using it to get the burn off of cookies if you burn a little bit of the cookies degraded off and you can try that on. I guess you could try it on like bread and toaster you hate it when you get a little bit of a I just use the sharp I just like flat scrape blade my knife across the top of toast when it gets burnt you ever do then you try to save it and you give yourself that piece you give everyone else a good piece and you get yours looks all stupid and scraped with the little chatter marks because you shattered when you scrape that thing across it and you feel like a D bag for wasting the bread but you didn't buy enough extra so you can't just like throw it away or feed it to the dog or something happens all the time. Right? I hate that guy. And as usual, the microplane can be used for its intended purpose, woodworking and just a great growth stars out microplates they sell them for personal use. And by that it means shaving the the dead skin off the bottom of your feet. Yeah, there's a guy at 54 Eldridge which is where our lab is, and we call the man coconut feet because he sits outside with a freaking paring knife and carves the calluses off of his feet and it looks like shavings of coconut on the on the side of the street. Right? We never learned his actual name. We just can't coconut flour right? And the wind picks up. Oh, Jesus now you're killing me. Now you're killing me. I see. Okay, Travis Hawkins wrote in on Twitter love the crap you gave Anastasia for her friends tomatoes in the fridge? Yeah, yeah. Nice right nice. He's just massages like great. Here comes more punishment. No no no punishment for you. Could you do a show on other common kitchen adjacent kitchen fireplace and refrigerator full pot? Yeah, we could probably do a whole show on kitchen faux pa but I was just thinking you mean refrigerator. Don't put like don't go to get matzah here I'll just do some refrigerator stuff for you don't go to don't go to the you know, buy your fresh mozzarella and then put it in the fridge unless you really are an enemy of quality like Dino put fresh tomato in the fridge you know, because you're gonna eat it that day anyway, I mean, and you can leave it out the whole damn day it's gonna change a little bit. But the texture is better. I'd rather have it take on a little bit of a tang than have it get its texture ruined by being in the fridge. Now theoretically, if you let that giant ball of mozzarella temper out all the way through to room temperature it will they say get back to where it was but I don't believe and I've done side by side taste tests and refrigerator just ruins it so don't put that there. Actually. If you okay now here's where to start is like learned during the month. If you happen to have a a wine cooler or a place of that temperature I store usually all of my cheese that way instead of storing it in the fridge because it's much faster and I hate it when someone takes a nice piece of cheese and they leave it in the fridge and they forget to pull it out you know you're gonna forget to pull it out like if you're me like I pull that crap out hours beforehand like like lunchtime if I know I have nice cheese and it's been in the fridge I'm like I'm gonna pull that sucker out like around lunchtime so that like right before dinner when we want to eat or you before cheese for dinner cheese or after dinner cheese for i when I'm out when I like when I'm home. I like dinner a cheese beforehand when I'm out I really like a cheese plate at the end of the meal. And also I obviously like still going into meal because that's when I want my port I want my port at the end of the meal and ports doesn't either hey look, I know it's trite but that is one of the that is one of the few straight up delicious food pairings in the world where food wine pairings like most food wine pairings people like me know that one is really actually good. Do you like pork and stuff? Is good walnuts ports Okay, so cheese, avocados do not store them in the fridge until they are ripe. Once they're ripe, you may store them in the fridge. But do not put a freaking baseball. Hard avocado. In the fridge. Natasha is a California girl can appreciate this. Well, you probably like swimming and avocados. Yeah, you know, like, so you never had this situation happen like you do here where you're like, I need one tonight and they're all hard dollars. And they're like, Well, I don't I don't I don't shop in those fancy $5 crap stores like, down by you.

You gotta go to styles farmers? No, no, even those like you they can be when they're out of season.

Yeah, well, like luckily I live in a neighborhood that plows through avocados like the end of the world is coming. So there's a huge amount of competition for the consumers avocado dollars in my neighborhood. And so I'd never pay more than, like, at tops like at the worst of times 250 for the Hoss, you know, and sometimes much, much less 99 cents Anyway, whatever. I'm sure you California people are like laughing like they're free for me. I live in California or in Florida. You know what I mean? Whatever. You know, we have our advantages out here. And you you move down here you feel more like a New Yorker.

Yeah, no, I know. Right now, I don't know, advantages.

We don't have weather advantages. I mean, like, you know, whatever. I've never, I mean, I have lived in California, but I was too young to remember it. Coffee, do not store coffee in the fridge. That don't mean the beverage. I mean, you know the product, you're gonna get condensation as it comes in and out of the fridge or the freezer, and the water is going to do damage. Don't do that. Do not do not store bread in the fridge. Holy crap. How many times you've seen people do this? Why would you put bread in the fridge? It's like it's it's refrigeration is the like retrogradation of starch is vastly, vastly sped up by refrigeration. And and I've said it before on the show a couple of times. So general rule of thumb is that freezing of bread, right? It is, you need to do it rapidly, because just the just the amount of time that it stays in the unfrozen zone before it freezes in that horrible retrogradation like heavy zone right around refrigeration temperatures, the amount of time it spends there, just as it's freezing. And thawing out again, is equivalent to roughly a full day's of stealing sitting on your counter. So do not store breads, unless they're so jacked with like, you know, emulsifiers and anti stealing agents like wonderbread, that it doesn't really friggin matter. That's it doesn't really matter. I mean, that's more of like a miracle of chemistry than bread, right? Potatoes do not store potatoes in the fridge unless you don't mind the fact that they're going to increase their sugar content. And so then if you're going to fry them or something like that, they'll get overly Brown, if you don't care about that, do whatever you like, it's a waste of freaking space to store. You know, I don't know, I don't know which of you people out there have so much freaking space that you can just throw five pound bags of potatoes into your fridge without breaking a sweat. But if you're that person, and you're not going to fry them, and you're not worried about the extra sugar content, and you're an enemy of quality, go ahead and do it. Many herbs should not be stored in the refrigerator if you're going to do long term storage. I do this because I don't because I'm a jerk. But you know, you get the herbs, you bring them home, you put them in a plastic bag, you throw them in the thing and two days later what happens they get that weird, glossy, gross look, they smell like a swamp and you got tissue damage where they get all waterlogged. You know, I'm talking about status, right? Better do what Anastasia does if before Eldridge which is she puts a glass of water and she sticks the herb into it and it sits there for you know, a bazillion years now she has the unfortunate habit of then never using the freaking herb and

throwing it out.

Kudos to that that's actually a good instinct. Anya, I don't like storing onions in the in the fridge. I'm just worried it's going to transfer. I don't know, I just don't do it. I don't know that it's actually bad. Although some people say it is I've never had a nightmare happen. And people have stored onions in my fridge. But here's the reverse faux pas stuff you should store in your fridge, but maybe don't. Apples, store your apples in the fridge. As soon as you get apples home, store them in the fridge. If you pick Apple store them in the fridge. Apples as when they're at room temperature, they're respiring don't eat that word. I kind of like respire there. And what's happening is, is they're losing malic acid, right? And, and changing and ripening on the thing. So like if you if you want to have it go if you want to lose your texture, if you want it to go overripe on you, if you want to lose the acid and very few cooks want to lose acid in an apple, then by all means, you know, don't put it in the fridge. But if you want it if you want to keep those flavors, it's like we had those Ashley's kernels and it was really expensive apples, and they got left out of the walk in because someone's like, Oh, you don't need to refrigerate those apples because they're not going to go bad. And in fact, we took you know a lot of money in a very fancy apple and in short order. We erased a lot of its awesome characteristics because it went from being kind of at peak with its good acid content to being lower and acid than I liked and and little overripe and as you know, like apples, when they get overripe, they get a little bit floral, they end up tasting, not necessarily a good way but more like a Fuji. You know how foodies have that kind of floral, sugary taste, they tend to go in that kind of direction. And of course, they get melior, which doesn't matter to me because I'm going to juice the hell out of them anyway, but it's amazing to me how otherwise trained food professionals can't taste around the texture of an apple. It's inherently bad citrus, citrus, you can keep it outside of the fridge, but the quality of it stays better if it's in the fridge. Now, if you have cases lime sitting around, it's not reasonable to put them in the fridge. Fine. But if you have a very expensive, you know, Satsuma or something like this and you want to maintain its quality, I would keep it in the fridge just to maintain its quality grapefruit especially I think she needs to be refrigerated to maintain its quality. Otherwise the flavor starts to go because I've read about it. I don't have as much and sweet corn, especially older style sweet corns that aren't like have like all the super sweet genes in them. The colder they are the better they'll keep their sweetness. The best thing to do is not stir the suckers at all is to buy those suckers cook them right away. That's the best thing right? Does like I don't care. Okay. All right. Should we take a break? Yeah, it's got a commercial break come right back with the cooking issues.

White Oak pastures is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse and its own USDA inspected poultry abattoir, a slaughterhouse we partner with whole foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey, one family one farm five generations out and 45 years of full circle return to sustainable land stewardship, you mean animal Stockman ship? For more information, please visit our website. White Oak pastures.com.

Oh yeah, I love the way it says. abattoir. abattoir, speaking of Avatar, the what do you like? Do you like slaughterhouse better you like at the tois? slaughterhouse? Really? Yeah, you love the that's what I want to things. I like my style. She's like, give me the blunt stuff. Go blunt. You know what I mean? Like much better to go black. And speaking of blunt, there was on Sunday a I don't know what it's it's a piece of what is it a non opinion piece isn't just a an article in The New York Times about a slaughterhouse in San Francisco. And I've heard first name just went out of my head. Nine men when I one of the owners of Diamond Ranch Christoph. No, no, no. Like a blog? No, no. Anyway, I'll figure it out. Anyway, she wrote an article on it because the slaughterhouse that they use was affected. And there was a recall on all the meat that was slaughtered in 2013, at this slaughterhouse in the Bay Area. And because there was some, there was some unsound cows that had been slaughtered in that place. And so the USDA response was to initiate a facility wide recall, even though right that the cows that Nyman ranch had slaughtered there are, you know, we're totally fine. And we're under a lot of scrutiny. And she was saying how ineffective our legislation is at dealing with situations like this. So I'm not going to get into the details of it. But I encourage you to go to the New York Times, as I think it was on Sunday, and look it up and check out kind of what's going on with with regulations and the way that it's harming small scale producers who are trying to do the right thing by producing humane sustainable meat. Caller, you're on the air.

Dan Seattle, a couple of questions, both related to ramen. First of all, are you familiar with yuzu coffee with a Japanese citrus pepper paste?

Yes. I mean, I don't use it much myself. But yeah, I'm familiar with it.

Okay. I have this. I've gone crazy for this stuff. And I'm using a ton of it. And I mostly use it. I mostly sue me to sue the pork with it, which if you have never tried that, I recommend it. But the stuff is crushingly expensive and the quantities I'm using at the end, and when you cook the heck out every 2436 hours. I'm thinking of some subtlety gets lost anyway, do you off top your head have an idea about how to go about faking this from Orange Juice Brian and whatever.

Well that's the thing yuzu has a very particular flavor. And you know, and it has to do with the, you know, not just the fruit itself but the oils that are in the rind, right. So there are other citruses that are available and On the west coast, I mean, there are people who produce using commercially. And it probably be, it's still fantastically expensive. If the last time we bought some I forget what it was some unconscionable amount of money like a couple dollars per fruit or something like that. But it's definitely that would be a cheaper way. But I've never found I found other citrus like weird citrus gene Lester's of you know, a collector of citrus in California and Watsonville. And, you know, Miss Dasha and Harold McGee and I went over to his ranch, and he tasted a bunch of stuff. And they he had some citrus that like that, like was he had yuzu, which was delicious. He had bergamot, which was great, but he also had like weird citrus that I've never had before that had some of these like strange oils in them, that would make a good substitute. But I can't think of anything off hand. I am sure, though, that this is one of those things that hopefully one of our listeners will tweet on in something some recommendation that they have to to get it done. But, you know, it might be cheap, like, how much did they charge for it?

It's two or $3 an ounce? And the three ounce things that so little jars that they'll sell to you. And it's a blend of yuzu togarashi and, um, salt.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you can fake it. You know what, we'll figure out how to fake I'm sure. If you can find a supplier they use it might actually be cheaper just to just to make it you know, because they're definitely upselling you on it, you know, where they make it, they make it stateside or they ship it in

Belize, the stuff I'm buying is from Japan. I mean, you can't find an English letter on the box. Hardly.

Yeah. So you're You mean look, you're just getting ruined by like everything. They're like the cost of producing using over there, like how crappy our dollar is versus the Yen in terms of buying power over there. And the shipping, you're just getting it every which way on that. So if you could find like a California producer of yuzu, you know, I'm sure that there's someone that shifts the fruit up there, you could probably adjust the flavor to however you want. You know what I mean? And you can probably come in way under the line on that I just never done it. So I you know, I hesitate to give you any recommendations right off the bat, you know what I mean?

But you think it would be a lot if I can figure out what about an entire case of using it wouldn't you think it will be quite a bit cheaper a

case a user is going to set you back one time I forget some Japanese chef was doing star chefs and Mills and I he ordered to use your your to Yuzu and they gave him two cases instead. And Mills and I just took that thing. And we made clarified like fresh, clarified yuzu, and did carbonated cocktails with it, but I mean, I'm pretty sure we blasted through a couple $100 a yuzu in that on that day. I mean, you're gonna you're still probably going to be buying them by the by the piece I don't know, they don't know you're gonna want to invest in a caseload yet, but you know, like, look out here, you can buy us you buy the piece for a couple bucks apiece at some of the Japanese markets, the Japanese markets will have you know, even ones that just do prepared foods that serve that sell any kind of Japanese products for cooking away usually we'll have one or two sitting around maybe even if you're lucky, some sudachi to mess around with which are also expensive and delicious.

All right, thank you very much. That's nuts not to start on on that one related question. I'm trying to figure out fresh ramen noodles and I've got a couple of decent recipes for I mean, the actual you know how much how much flour how much lime water, how much gluten yada yada but I've got a brand new meat grinder that comes with the larger hole this is about the right size do you have an opinion whether the pressures to push those through that we'll just blow the thing apart?

Yeah, I am I am very skeptical that that will work just because I've never seen anyone do pasta in the meat grinder and I know that the pasta extruder attachment for the KitchenAid doesn't really do much of anything at all.

I've had that unfortunate experience Yes

Yeah, I know it's no it's no good I mean every you know everyone wishes we had the you know what the ideas and food guys have which is that arcobaleno or similar? extruder the ROM what's the hydration on the ramen noodle recipe that you have?

I would have I would have to look it up but it's fairly high there's quite a bit of water in it.

Yeah, my my like my brain is erased now Is it is it steam or boil before fryer fry and then steam I always forget and then dry. I think it's I think it's I think it's quick steam or boil then fry then dry. I think my brain is totally erased on this though.

Well, the the recipe I have, which is actually off an excellent blog called Tess's Japanese kitchen or something close to that, right? She makes the noodles fresh and just boiled. But I mean a mild simplification of the bowl, do

you need a fry step? Why? Because maybe not like, if you're going to make it fresh, what am I talking about? Like, I'm guessing not like but you know the commercial one. They're like the ramen noodle that you know, we grow up with their fried to expel the water and get a little grease in so that they absorb a lot of the water from whatever they're placed in, you know what I mean? Yes. So they have a fry step involved with it. But but you know, perhaps, you know, this is something I would I would defer to someone with actual cultural experience as opposed to, you know, just you know, an American's experience of what ramen is like. So, I don't know, maybe that's the case, maybe a fry step is not required, but I know commercially that's what's done.

I'm just not sure how much that's preservation and whatnot. But um, alright, so But regardless, the meat grinder thing is unlikely to work.

Hey, look, I don't think you're gonna ruin the meat grinder. I just think it's not gonna work.

Okay, if you think it would just not make noodles. Yeah, well,

what are you attaching the meat grinder to? What is it? Is it standalone with a big powerful motor?

Yes, it's a standalone half. Okay, I had one KitchenAid tack on meat grinder and last about four or five years. It was great. I mean, it wasn't going great. But it was perfectly adequate. It finally died. I literally wore the bearings out the bushings out in it. Yeah, well.

But then the new one. Cracked in a month, they changed the cheap and did something. So I bought a Cabela's half horsepower. And

it bogs down, I'm gonna, here's my, here's my thing. If the motor starts bogging down and heating up, then obviously I'd hold back on it, but I think you're going to be alright, you know, it's alright to test it, I don't think you're going to shatter it as long as the gears in it, assuming it's geared down, which it has to be otherwise it would go crazy. Assuming the gears are have some sort of metal and you don't crush it hard, fast. You know what I mean? Like you're, you kind of sneak up on it a little bit. I think you're gonna be alright. I mean, most of the time when you know gears breaking mechanisms like that, it's because of a hard stop, you know?

Alright, so you don't it's not likely but you don't think it will result in metal parts flying across the room? I

do not think it will. I mean, I won't hold you to that. All right, very, and you're gonna obviously want to you're going to need some method to space it that allows you to remove a cutting blade on the inside of the grinder.

Yeah, I can surely find something to stick in there for that. Yeah.

Or double. You could double plate it. No, because it'll rotate. I think I can just use stainless steel washers. Yeah. All right. Yeah, just you know you don't want the blade in there because obviously that's going to be hacking this stuff right when you want it to be whole.

Got it? Yep. Thank you very much.

All right. Good luck with it. All right. We have a question in from Lucas.

She still need to cook his meat. Yes, we are ready to get his meat.

Yeah, we certainly most certainly we should do it soon. We just got a lot of stuff off our plate we can do that soon. As soon as we as soon as we get the prototype approved for the Sears all it's gonna be a load off my mind. I can start thinking about cooking again. You don't I mean doing some real cooking. Hi Natasha, Dave, Jack and Joe and Evan now as you know I love the show longtime listener I heard about Dave's restaurant quality espresso machine he bought from a from an Italian mobster while fighting rat infestation true story but what I what I don't think I mentioned is that the guy that I paid to take it home in my car was a guy who had just gotten out of Rikers for dealing crack and was setting up a food truck downtown. And I accidentally here's like a weird guy he refused to refer to me as anything but white boy and like the and I paid him 20 bucks to take it home because when you buy stuff at an auction it's as is where is right you don't get to choose you got to get that thing out of there right now. And I accidentally left the pump the you know the actual like, you know, the it's a rotary vane pump that they use and espresso machines real ones and I left it in his freaking car so I had to go out there to his house which was craziness craziness to get it but you know, he actually he's a nice guy. I mean look, I mean, other than the other than the doing time for dealing crack you seem like a and calling me white boy incessantly.