Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information visit heritage foods usa.com You are listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 joined as usual with Natasha hammer, Lopez Heydo. Sounds good. And Jack in the engineering booth Jack and special guests today. My son Booker Booker, how're you doing?

I'm doing great. How do you do?

I'm doing all right. Yeah, Booker's here at the show today. I took them out of school because we had to go look at another school. It's one of those parenting things. Did you enjoy the new school you were looking at?

Yes,

yeah. Yeah. You got anything else to say to the radio folk out there?

They were very nice to me.

They were Are you looking forward to the pizza that we're gonna have after the radio show?

Yes.

Oh, good. All right. Nice. It's extremely polite book. And this is like a whole new book or, you know, maybe maybe, you know, a couple of years. You can have your own radio show. You seem so nice on the on the radio. Very cool. I hope so. Yeah.

Good mic technique too.

Nice. Right? Right. Very pro better than us. Alright, so

I have to make note that today is the first time in a very long time that they've beaten Stasi to the studio.

Yeah, that's true. Well, I would have been here even earlier, but apparently there's so many hipsters in his neighborhood now that it's actually difficult to park.

But what pictures don't drive though?

Yeah, they do. They drive their parents cars with it with the dancing bears on the back when they when they drive in from Westchester to hang out with their hipster buddies that got that cool apartment in Bushwick. Haven't you met those people? Yes, yes. Yes,

yes. And I may or may not drive my grandma's car.

What kind of sweet ride is your grandma has a

95 Nissan Sentra. Wow, it's a beater.

Now, I like a beater. Okay, so let me get to some of the questions. I'm having some technical difficulties. So Booker is going to be the only reason he's here is because I promised that he could use my computer throughout the entirety of the episode. So the part of Natasha will be played today by my son Booker who will be on the computer the entire time. But I'm not able to get my headphones or he's he's putting on his computer headphones, but Booker, I'm actually going to have to use the iPad instead. Alright, to plug in plug into that. I'm going to have to use my computer All right. Yeah. See? All right. All right. Nice. So so malleable. I love it. All right. Yes, Booker doing a radio show here.

We're leaving out what about one?

Yeah, robot one. Yeah.

Okay. Sennheiser that's the one Sanam

Booker's enjoying the products here. Okay. Now, listen, last week when I when I ran out of time with Chris Yeah, and that's fun, right? Yeah, that's kind of fun. It would have been even more fun if he were live in the studio. But he had to hang out in Providence, a place that Natasha was actually supposed to be at the same time. And for some reason, even though I didn't know how was preventing her from doing it was lording it over my head. Did they have a good amount? There are no great time. Yeah. You know, I've never been to that said Johnson Wales up there. Right. I've never been apparently they have, like an intensely good cooking library. Do you know that? Yeah, they do. Wow. I'm surprised. Nice. I'm surprised you care. You're surprised and my hearts a little gladder? Yeah, okay. But I promised that I will go over some of the cooking peeves that I miss kitchen peeves that I miss getting to on last week's show. Hopefully I don't repeat any but a bunch came in while I was on the while we were on the air. And for some reason, we're not technically sophisticated enough to be able to get stuff live. You know what I mean? We're not. We're no lair, low paid or anything like that. We can't. Yeah, all right. Josh Swanson wrote in he's got a couple using lids with holes in them to, quote cover a product. Yeah, that sucks. Right? Here's the thing though. There's different kinds of the like the like the holes issue. Like there's like giant holes, that's clearly problematic. Then there's like the moron that punches a hole in the in the lid. But then, right, there's the I'm reusing the deli container that they punctured with like a pin point so that the sucker doesn't blow up from the steam. But those suck when you're trying to transport stuff, how many times that we had core containers go crap on us. And that's why even the stash who generally doesn't care about such things, wraps the hell out of core containers with plastic wrap afterwards, if we're going to transport them for long distance and hence has saved many a bag even though we're morons for carrying core containers in our bags. But we do it anyway. Because why? Because well, actually, we haven't done it this year. This is our non duct tape here. Yeah, remember? Yeah. What else I hate though, here's another pet peeve crappy quart containers you ever like, like, you're like, Man, how much worse can the bad quart container be. And the guy buys a whole bunch of bad quart containers, and they show up, and the lids crack instantly. And you're like, oh, and then quart container after core container, cracks and spills the stuff all over everything. It's just like the worst. Remember, we bought a bad batch once. But it wasn't like we were being cheap. They did send us the bad freakin batch. And a good core container is is a joy and a pleasure. And you can reuse it again and again. You know, as long as you clean the onions out of it, and you know, they're awesome eating. And as it says before the show, I don't think they're any less green than anything else. Because literally I'll use quart containers for years. Right? Unless they crack on first use. And then they're the worst things in the world. Josh also wrote in oh, by the way, it turns out your laptop doesn't work and iPad I've seen you're trying to scroll my scroll my laptop screen using the last of an item, and then not adding it to a list of stuff to order. Now this is one that sucks at home. And at work. How many times it happens. Someone uses the last of a staple. You assume you have it. No one's like, oh, yeah, I use the last of the rice. Oh, how do you it's not how you use the last rice. And not another one that pisses me off major in like professional scenario is, hey, look, we have a menu item. Right? We have a menu item. We make it all the damn time, right? We're always making the menu item, right? You know that it requires this this product amount. I'll make it up malic acid that you know is two days away. malic acid also lasts forever, is not expensive, and doesn't take up that much space. Why would you ever run out? Why would you ever run out? Like you're down to one pound or two? You're not going to take the stuff off and we're always going to be using the malic acid. Why would you ever run up? Should you ever run out as well? Not without me getting quite angry about it right. Third, Josh writes in Josh has not enjoyed the bad bag inside of a secondary bag. But the question is why here because it's lazy. Sometimes I will put a bag in a bag when the bag sucks, but I want to maintain the label on the other bag temporarily but that's more of a home kitchen thing that's not a pro thing and a pro thing. You definitely don't want bags inside of that you definitely don't want this one where you have a bag inside of a bag and then you pull out the crappy bag and then that crappy bag is leaking. And then as you pull the crappy bag out of the outer bag, it's sprays all over the place because you can't get the stuff out of the bag on the inside without spilling stuff. Sucks right? Sucks. Jimmy kriv whose Twitter handle is at Val Kilmer sin good are you about humor killer fan don't really have an opinion in one way or the other didn't like top secret all right. When the Front of House asked for a towel and takes two so what do you think does do you think that the front of house back a house hatred is like mellowing over time? Or about the same? You think it's going to change ever? No, I don't know. You're mad that I don't care about okay are ostler and Kay Zakhar from at gypsy kitchen wrote in cell phones in the kitchen. Yeah, that kind of blows, changing the oven temp when other things are still baking. Who does that? Anyone who does that should get like, some sort of non lethal but like instant and memorable punishment? Like why would you do that? Why would you ever do that? Why would it anyway, and improper rapping here's the thing. Improper rapping. So like at the French Culinary Institute, they're big advocates of like the major heavy duty hotel rap over under sigh with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, rap, rap, rap, rap, rap, rap rap rap rap, right. And this is very good. In situations where you know that 18 People are going to touch a product, it's going into a shared refrigerator, it's gonna get jostled and moved. And what you need it to be is completely bulletproof. Right? But then you have the people who hotel wrap in any circumstance. And so dump 18 layers of plastic, for instance, on something when you're about to do a demo. And what you really want to do is be able to get into the product without looking like a fool and like and like unwrapping it like it's a freaking Christmas present. So I think proper wrapping is a matter of context, but improper wrapping, always irritating. Right? Dan Lee wrote in improper shoes, showing up in slippers, sandals or heels and if you do that, I'm gonna send you home. Yeah, it's true. Especially when we work with liquid nitrogen. You know what? It's like? I had a guy once who, you know, he's one of his things and like he had to stop himself from do it constantly is literally point pouring, boiling hot sauces on people when they were open toed shoes. He's like, he's like, Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you had real shoes on. I'm sorry that your foot is scalded and burned off. But you really have no business like wearing open toed anything in in a kitchen. You know? True or things that are slippery. You know, I'm saying because, you know, if you bust your head, like that sucks for everyone, not just for you, like you made a bad decision and wore bad shoes. But now you've slipped and broken your head. You've probably ruined some decent food probably you definitely are shutting down that that kitchen for a while where they scrape you off the ground and like figure out what's going on there might be a lawsuit. Everybody feels bad, you know, bad shoes bad idea. Which is not the main I'm not feeling for the person that gets hurt. I'm just saying they shouldn't do that. make everyone's life easier. Jay Schroeder wrote in that guy who says hot behind every time he's moving around, and I guess presumably even though the stuffs not hot, keep crying wolf buddy. That's what Jay says. And like that's what I saw is not always joking. Lukewarm behind, like, you know, tepid behind behind a little bit like you know, like I don't know, like bath water temp behind. You know what I mean? Because most the time people screaming behind I'm all for letting people know behind but there is a certain level of scrimmage that I mean look on the other hand, it's a total safety thing. So like It's Psalm if you don't scream behind, you know, then you know you get your behind handed to you. But you know, it doesn't need to be the you don't need to overplay the hot it's like the same things like how many of you guys actually enjoy it when the when the way Tron tells you that the plate is extremely hot, especially if you're a cook. You're like the plates not freakin hot. It's not freakin hot. It's like warm maybe was the last time you had a plate that really actually hurt your hands does. No, no. Like I serve Korean stone bowls totes, they come out of the table. And 615 degrees Fahrenheit, plate hot your plate hot. But I think it's why a lot of people don't use those things because otherwise, if it wasn't for the fact that customers would burn their hands off all the time, there would be Korean stone bowls the total solids in every Applebee's in America why? Because all you need to do is pour a little bit of oil in the bottom at Rice. Any other crap. Any other crap seems sauce, an egg on top. Delicious. But you know what I mean? It's the easiest like you could do an Applebee's. It's just toss out Applebee's. Except for the fact that you'd be burning too many people and then you get in trouble. Alright. A couple more of the peeves.

Baba Baba, Sam brez LA, the big in life wrote in oversized knives on the line and punching holes through the crystal wrap rather than removing all of it. In other words, like punching a hole through the top and then trying to take the stuff out because you didn't want to undo the hotel wrap that someone did when they were overeager and wrapped the EverLiving crap out of something. That's true. Although what's an oversized knife on the line? That's the question like I literally like anything over 10 Do you consider a 10? Too much? I love a tenant chef's knife. I just liked the way they feel right? And I can deal with an eight but I don't want anything smaller than an eight when I'm doing chopping. Do you mean like someone's like busting out like like a super long like like a tuna knife like what are we talking about? Like what's too long you What do you think too long for a knife? At what point do you think it's more of a you know, a judge of your of your nether regions? That seems sort of a standard? I don't know it's interesting question. But Carter writes and not checking fridges and your section properly. First order comes and you're back to the fridge to get something so not getting all your meals out and having to travel back and forth to the fridge all the time. That's just weak thinking tweek thinking Adam Cheryl writes writes in total lack of comprehending anything about surface area, presumably Yeah, I hate that too. But like that's like real meta kitchen p if you know what I mean. But yeah, not understanding how food cooking works and to burn black smoking oil that tastes and smells like gasoline. Usually, to me it like smells of like rotting fish and rancid nasty I hate that too. I friggin hate battle a battle oil smell they smell in fact I remember we used to teach the CV low temp course we would do a fry off on a bunch of stuff and a bunch of times the oil went over temp and now the combination of short ribs and over temp oil I can just thinking about it makes makes me a little little nauseated a little bit you know I mean I can I can anyone ever else have that they have like specific things because I was also food poisoned what I did that class I was really sick remember that. And so I had to come in and teach the class even though I was food poison and like, you know, couldn't even like really concentrate or see straight. And so like that assault of that smell on my system while I was already completely damaged, has impregnated it in my head and ruined me on that. I can't tolerate it anymore. Weird, right? Yeah. It's weird how your body works that way. Okay, and Jimmy crave again, back with when servers say it's so hot. I have so hot back here. After only 30 seconds near the line. He's like, you're making the tips that's just weak. That's just weak that you get so too busy if you can't stay. Jimmy's saying if you can't stand the heat, you might as well want to go to the kitchen. And last but not least, he writes in filling quart containers are lexicons to the brim. Oh, I hate that because when you open the core container and stuff pours all out, you can't help it. Like unless, unless you really have the fortitude to be like oh crap, and put the core container inside of a Cambro to open it so that you catch the spillage as dumb as it that's just dumb. I hate that. And portioning out proteins before they're cool man presumably me cutting it so that they dry out in turn nasty. Also only one when people priests when the people slice for portions before they go out way the hell too early like for like if you're gonna send out like sliced meats or like a duck breast and you and then they crisp it off and they do a great job. They put it out to rest and then they slice it like for like five minutes. 10 minutes for that sucker is gonna go out to the customer and it looks all old, nasty. I don't think people do that more than a day. We used to see that all the time in the final exams for the students. But if you do that for more than a day at a restaurant, you'd be like beaten senseless, which you can't do at FCI just weren't allowed to beat students senseless as it turns out that it's a strange thing. They were customers as well as as, as like workers. So it's like weird thing. That's actually the hardest thing stars had to wrap their head around. I was like, you know, you're not allowed to go ape testicle on these people's does because they're also your customer. She's like, I don't get it. I don't wait, hold are on the break. Yeah, we'll get your internet on the break books. Okay, here's some piece that I have wrapping. I think I said something's on the air wrapping things in aluminum foil that aren't labeled and putting them in a fridge. I'm gonna do a bunch of home ones because we got mainly pro stuff. I hate that. And once you wrap something in aluminum foil and put it in my fridge, you might as well have thrown that sucker in the freaking garbage especially if you wrapped it and you're only at my house for an hour and you wrap it and you put it or whatever, three hours, four hours eating. You put it in the fridge and then I don't know what it is and it's garbage. I'm getting hot. Booker, you should take off your coat

wasn't that one of the pet peeves right there? Yeah,

well, yeah, he's he's, he's in the kitchen here for like 30 minutes. Oh, my God, my own son. Putting kitchen equipment away when you don't know where It goes so that the guy who lives in the kitchen and works in the kitchen all the time can't find it. It has to spend half an hour finding the peeler. This is why I have four freaking identical Kuhn recon why peelers in my kitchen so that three separate people can shaft me and put the frickin pillar away in a place that I don't know where it is. And I still have one left and yet still time and again, I occasionally will have to spend 15 minutes looking for a pillar I hate this because you're made keeps it I'm not I don't have a maid or whatever you don't have a maid stars is like classic on like, not caring about people at all. She doesn't care about their maid, whatever. Using my knives without asking or anyone's nice, I would never walk into somebody's kitchen. And like, you know, pick up their like chef's knife and just start using it without asking whether that's the knife I should use and very similar to doing cutting on top of surfaces without asking whether it's okay to cut on top of the surface. How many times just happen to you staff people just come in, they take your knife and they start chopping on top of them. They should be chopping. Yeah, it doesn't happen. Why? Because you kill them first. I thought you said you had bad friends. Oh, I think stars

I said no, I don't care. I don't know to every single one of these

not smelling boards or containers for things like onions, pros who come to your house and miss out all of your stuff when you only need a little bit for a recipe. Like I need some potatoes and so they peel and cut every potato you have in the house the entire five pound sack that we're having, do you what do you do for a living? Not sitting down when I tell you to sit down at the table for eating I hate that right? And not having the table set when I've told you half an hour in advance that that dinner is gonna be ready and a half an hour. I hate that. That never happens. You

know they get things done as far as bad as they are they get things done. Your friends

do nice messing with food in a pan for no frickin reason. This stuff just sitting there. It saw Tang, or it's crisping up on the bottom or it's rendering. It's fat. It's minding its own business. Don't dork with the food. I hate that. Do you do not care about that one either? Is that one Bobby only Claire does that. And does it bother you? Yes. Oh, you did tell her all right, nice. We're, here's one star is gonna be mad at me for worrying about your personal comfort while you're cooking. It's too late. You're cooking. Now the only thing that matters is the food. If you cared about your personal comfort the time to care about it was before he started cooking. But stars hates that about me because I never take my personal comfort into consideration in any circumstance whatsoever. Don't get that one. Like, oh, I'm gonna go change or oh, I need to pee. Now. You should have peed beforehand, like the clothes that you're now cooking with. You're now finishing, it's not time to go worry about other crap, your uncomfort or something that you forgot to do during the day. Now comes a time in the day where we care about the food and the food is the only thing that matters. Oh my hands a little burnt. Okay, if it's majorly burnt, that's one thing. If it's a little bit burnt, you suck it up and you care for it after the food comes out. That's it. It's like when you're there. When you're cooking. You are not a person with your own thoughts and desires. What you are is a machine to make the best possible food that you can make. That's it. Everything else is BS in my in my opinion. All right, so that's good for the piece. Jeff, right. Yeah. Anything else you have any piece that you hate? You just don't want to call him out? No, I don't know. All right. Well, I think one more Jeff is not a Peeth Justin Jim told me how to pronounce it, by the way, apparently pronouncing it incorrectly but it's as close as in America is going to be able to get Jeff to and Jim Wright said Dave, Natasha, Jack Joe, and Hello Chris. Although I'm sorry, we missed Chris. We talked about it a little bit because it's Chris's recipe but we mentioned it last week. And I'll give you the shout out for Booker as well. Hey, Dave, I contacted you about 18 inch non PVC plastic wrap on Twitter the other day. So plastic wrap for those you didn't know. Typically home plastic wraps now are made of polyethylene which is generally considered foodsafe doesn't have plasticizers and it can still have solvents in it that have been flashed off if it's done poorly, but the it's generally considered fairly inert whereas the other although it's poor gas barrier. The other one that's in common use is PVC. Better gas barrier actually, however, has the possible nasty effect of having estrogenic compounds in it that you don't want nasties right? And there's a lot of research out there and a lot of back and forth but I in general tend to avoid PVC for food contact. I've been making this back to the question I've been making ChefSteps version of a chicken Rula with meat glue, trans contaminates, which is a great technique you know I've been plastic wrapping nails for showed me how to do those Noren showed me how to do the plastic wrap tubes because back at Aqua V. You know years and years ago, he would shape every meat into a tube we use we used to joke with mills that like you know, in Mills, his world if mills were God, all animals would just grow in the shape of it. tube so that they could be cooked evenly and portioned evenly and served out. Like he would have in his mind fish swim through the ocean. That's perfect tubes and shrimp, you know, flap around that's perfect tubes, cows are perfect tubes, small perfect tubes anyway. And he's very good at making perfect tubes with plastic wrap. Chicken Rula. With meat glue, I wanted to try it with larger cuts of meat. Making the 12 inch wrap that I use a challenge to tie off, you suggested trying a supermarket. Unfortunately, the supermarket brands stopped making wider wrap which is the source of my problem. I've looked at every restaurant supply store and food wholesale market in Seattle. And I searched online and cannot find any 18 inch wrapped without PVC that doesn't sound worthless. I've read Chris's plastic safety article at the modernist site and ChefSteps and made me rethink my use of PVC and the possible estrogenic effects. For myself. I don't really care sounds like useless. But I have a daughter that visits in the summer and we like to experiment I also regularly cook for people with children. I was researching and found an article that interviewed Harold McGee, and he mentioned cryovac bags. He said that because the layer in contact with the food is polyethylene. It lowered his concern about the PVC and outer layers real cryovac bags are multi layered. And yeah, usually have some sort of polyethylene or similar inner layer on the inner side. Since it looks like I'm stuck with PVC, I was wondering if wrapping a layer of 12 inch polyethylene around the meat and then using the PVC to form and tighten the package would effectively prevent plasticizer. From migrating to the rot. It's tough to say. It depends on how porous they are. And things in plastics tend to migrate back and forth with each other. And yeah, I mean, depending on how they're made. And you know, and also especially these things are typically more lipophilic. The answer to that question is I don't know. Although it depends also on how long the contact is going to be. Presumably he's not going to be that long the contact. I haven't able to find data on this but don't have access to journals. I was not able to find data on that either. What do you think about this idea? The dual use if you don't have a clue? Do you have any suggestions about where I could go next research? Should everyone that uses this technique. Please ask people like Polly size to carry wider safe plastic wrap with their bags. I want to thank all of you cookies, use Harris radio and chest as for everything that you do, getting entertained by David a hammer every week makes learning a joy. And Chris's site is a daily part of my life. Looking forward to the arrival of my series All thanks again. Just enjoy him. Okay, so listen, here's the here's the secret, you don't need to have the length of plastic wrap. Okay, so I want you all to picture what's going on in your head here, you're taking a a work surface, I like going directly on the stainless don't do it on a cutting board. The reason why is the cutting board will slip around as you work even if you have you know the wet paper towel under the under the thing, use directly your work surface, get a damp towel and put a line of moisture right on the on your work surface. And then spread out a piece of plastic wrap the moistures at the top and then you can pull a little bit on the plastic wrap to get a nice taut flat sheet of plastic wrap on your work surface. Now, the width as you're looking at the width, right, which is what was what just talking about here, it needs to be wide enough such that your entire relied or to whatever you're going to make into a tube, the entire thing fits with you have enough place to hold on the end and wrap back and forth like a rolling pin pull it you know to to form the tube. So it forms a tube much like a sausage tube, right? It needs to be wide enough for that to happen. But here's what I think that you're missing. Jeff that that's going to help you out is that you can use she you what you're using is you're using the width of the plastic wrap, right as though as the width of the rulide and then cutting the plastic wrap such that the you know you're you're you're doing the length front to back. No, no, no, no, no, when you do very large reloads or even normal sized ones, if you only have small plastic wrap, what you do is, is you have the width of the plastic wrap line up front to back and you just tear off larger pieces, right. And so you're doing it 90 degrees to the way that you're doing it. Now you can make the lot as long as you want. And it turns out that if you layer the plastic wrap right one and then you you leave an inch and a half an inch and a half or two inches of overlap between the first piece and the next piece that you layer over it right that you're not going to get leakage especially because you're going to be pulled you're rolling it into a tube and you're going to put multiple layers on anyway. So what I would recommend is doing it that way. Cutting going the wide way making it as wide as you want. Putting one layer start always as far away from you as possible. Make it taut. Put the next one on overlap like two maybe even three inches and pull it down and then you should be able to do your reload that way. It'll roll up it'll roll up nicely and when you put the second layer on because I always recommend Doing two layers. When you pull, wrap it tight once, fold the pigtails under, and then wrap again, you will not get leakage through that through that section. So that's how I recommend and you can take any size plastic wrap you have within reason and do any size. Rely within within reason. I mean, we used to do very big ones, for demonstrations at the FCI. And that's how we do it. So hopefully that helps. Let's take our first commercial break before

we go to a break Dave. Yes, I just got a message from a listener named Wyatt who says with no nothing else, I would buy a shirt that says enemy of quality with Dave's face on it, FYI. Yeah, yeah. So some think about

All righty. All right. Nice. Oh, all right. We'll be right back.

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And we're back. And we're so who's with who brought us the show today? Heritage Foods

USA heritage foods usa.com?

Yeah, damn anything

like those guys? Yeah, they're

good people. Here they've got some good stuff. So Jack, you want to talk hot sauce? Yeah, I

do. We're, we're participating in a hot sauce Expo with our pal Jimmy Carbone and had a few listeners kind of wondering what your thoughts on the extreme hot sauce. People you know? Do you like really, really hot hot sauce? Is that ridiculous to you?

Well, okay, it's just and so here's the thing there are, there are it depends on how hot is hot. Right. So let's just before we get into sauces, let's talk peppers, right. habaneros are delicious, for instance, right. And you know, when I was, you know, a 20 year old, the habanero was the hottest pepper that you could get. They were still relatively difficult to source in regular supermarkets at the time, you had to go to a specialty place. And they were hot. But everybody realized that habaneros had a reason for existence. Right? They they tasted really good. They had this kind of amazing like floral, fruity aroma that you know other most other peppers didn't have and kind of a real nice character to that spiciness. And so there were some extreme hot sauces that had habanero as the base and they tasted really good because they tasted like habanero, but you had to use them sparingly because they were very hot. Now let's let's ramp up to current hot peppers, hot hot peppers, Naga Jolokia that ghost pepper. You know what that thing tastes like? Like nothing. It doesn't taste interesting. It's not interesting. It's just damagingly hot. And so, you know, prior to that back when I was, you know what, I think I've mentioned this on the show before when I was when I got out of college, I didn't really have a decent job. I was, you know, waiting to start up work as a paralegal. And my, my wife had a really good job working for Caesar Pele's is a very famous architect, especially at the time, in New Haven. And so I sat around with a fried daddy training myself to eat hot peppers by by frying deep frying habanero chili Reno's and just eating them one after the other until I was completely in your two capsulation. Right. So I said to myself, Okay, I can take this. And so what's the next step at the time, the next step after this is before Super like instant days and Saturday sauce and stuff was at least before I knew about it. And although there was at the time, like the the whole hot and salsa thing was taking off kind of great guns, this is in 9092 93 around that, that time, and, you know, I kind of realized there was a market for just, you know, who could who can, you know, what's a polite way of saying this, it's like, you know, just kind of like proving your manhood by by eating hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter things right. And then subsequently, proving that, you know, women can eat as hot of a thing as it is a D bad guy can eat and things just got hotter and hotter and hotter. And I was caught up in that, I guess, because I was young and dumb. And so I sourced a bunch of the oleo resin, which is the stuff that you use to just add pure heat the stuff that comes with like legit warning labels of bad things happening to you if you eat it. I sourced it from industry. or supply, you know, way back in the day. And I realized this stuff just doesn't have any good taste. And so then a lot of the hyper hot sauces that have come out to me taste of that oleo resin, which is fundamentally pure spice and the dregs of what maybe at one time was a decent chili, but as now just just about spice, and so there's very little flavor in those things. And, you know, I'm not trained anymore. So like, I don't like things as super hot, although I can still take it better than most people can. So my point is, if it helps the flavor, then I'm all all for it, you know. And if it's just done as a stunt, I think it's kind of a crappy idea. I think it's especially a bad idea to put intensely hot things all over, like otherwise nuanced foods, because you just gonna ride over the top, I don't care how good you are, even at the height of my training with with eating hot stuff, I would have to have admitted that, you know, it's going to be very difficult to tell, you know, I mean, you could tell textures fine. But like the actual kind of, you know, bass note flavors and stuff is just so much going on in your mouth that it just it's hard to tell what the hell's going on. It's, you know, there's a fine line to it. But there's definitely a place where I think even the biggest spice a file will realize that the line has been crossed. And you know, that's why, you know, at the bar, we've had a bunch of spicy drinks. And, you know, my point is, yeah, I can take it and I like the spice even, but are we still balanced? Are we still in the business of doing something that's balanced or not? This is making sense, Jack or no?

Sorry, I was distracted. David.

You asked me the question. I don't even know whether I answered it. Right. All right, whatever.

I'm gonna guess come in.

Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, so my point is, my point is, you know, I'm fine with the super hot sauces. I used to like the ones that have a lot of flavor. In fact, the most interesting one we had was called, it wasn't spicy at all is a pepper sauce made by do north in New Zealand was sent to us by a listener, and was a completely non spicy pepper sauce that had such a rich pepper flavor. I love that. You know what I mean? I love it. I luckily they sent me two bottles. And so we lost one because I think we lost it Robertas we brought to the table and we're eating it and then it got washed away or something. We lost it. But you know, I was able to keep the other one. So someday they will ship it to the US have it alright. Jackson, I don't know. I don't care. I did. We talked last week about vacuum marinating, and in a in a, you know, an ISI whimper? Not that I can recall. All right. Well, clearly, it's not vacuuming marinade. But Brandon Lee wrote in and said, Can you talk about vacuum marination of meat in a siphon? Well, okay, so look. So for those you that don't know what we're talking about evacuee marination, what you're doing is pulling a vacuum on a piece of meat. And thereby we have talked about this for the past couple of weeks of trying to accelerate the rate at which cure Brian goes in. This actually dovetails with something that was written in by Harry that we're going to deal with in a minute he he says, Hey, Dave, have you seen physicist Greg blonder? Biello N D E RS website, which is www dot genuine ideas.com. Have you seen his website where he plays around with cooking, you might be interested in this investigation he did about dye. So if you go to if you look up dye, Greg blonder. And like food dye, I'd seen some of his research. But this article is really awesome. It talks about rate of diffusion of different molecules into different meats at different rates and how they work. So it'd be interesting to combine that with vacuum stuff. I don't think he did that yet. But it's fantastic read, I recommend everyone who hears this goes to check out that that page, because it's really I think it's really good work. But so if we're doing vacuum donation, that's one thing in the ISI bottle and a siphon, you're doing the opposite. You're trying to use pressure to force to force under pressure liquid into meats. And in fact, I thought of the reason I thought of rapid infusion at all was a guy named Mr. Fizz was using his carbonation system to pressure inject marinade into meats. So it definitely works. I would recommend doing a double A double pressure. So I don't know whether I did publish it actually. Or I should say, Paul published it on cooking issues you can do in fusion in an ISI, just like you can in a vacuum where you pressurize the stuff in under pressure. The question is you want to release it slowly. Here's why. When you pressurize when you pressurize a product into a piece of meat, let's say you're also injecting in air you're compressing any air that's in there, you're compressing it down very small. When you release the pressure, that air will re expand again, it will tend to leave and last tended generate pores within it that allow further penetration on the next go around but you definitely want to put two different pressure cycles on it but it definitely works and if you look at Mr. fizzes old stuff back in the day you can see him it's really gross actually cuz he's doing in a plastic bottle and you can see chicken getting injected with Bryan under pressure but I definitely recommend two pressure pushes not one and you can also do it if you if you happen to have a if you happen to have like a corny keg and and like a larger system you can you can do it in a corny keg as well I have not done I've not done it with co2 which is what you would probably use in a larger corny keg because you probably don't have a nitrous tank like I do. But I've had people try it and tell me that when they cook the meat afterwards presuming that you cook it properly will I say properly I mean you know all the way through to a warm temperature that there will be no more residual co2 taste but I cannot vouch for this because I have not tried it. But you should be able to do like you know a whole suckling pig that way in a well no I mean you have to be able to fit through the lid of the corny keg but as long as you put it accordingly there's there's other things by the way you can get what's called a pressure pot if you don't want a corny keg that they use for spray painting and that you could fit like a whole turkey into you can get them at like what's it was that tool store harbor Harbor Freight you can ever like Harbor Freight just be careful because the insides of them aren't necessarily food grapes. You don't want to put stuff in a plastic bag and I bought one wants to smelled like petroleum for forever. I was able to get a petroleum smart. I wasn't using it for food so please, I don't want to hear it. Alright. Okay, Howard, what would you sweat so in bed, right. Howard wrote in let me see if I get it up. Oh, Harry, I got Harry. Harry was chatting with a pastry chef. I work with him. We had a quick question. We've been doing an aerated chocolate tempered chocolate I aside into a container and then place in a vacuum machine as a menial DS menial. Do you like the French? Where do you like little petty for things or small things just like I don't do crap. And we're curious if there's any way to dispense some of the chocolate into the container, then layer a denser thing, perhaps a pre alien paste, and then more of the chocolate with the idea that when the mixture goes into the vacuum, the denser material will fill all the holes that are created in the aerated chocolate. Thanks, Harry. Now listen, I don't think so I'm just gonna go ahead and say I don't think so. Now, I'm always wrong. But my feeling is this when your air eating chocolate, your the what's happening is is that there are already remember I said before, there's minute air, air bubbles and pockets inside of your product, right? Especially when you isI it, it's not really air, there is some air but it's nitrous oxide and small stuff, when you're putting in the vacuum machine, what's happening is you are inflating that you're inflating that and then setting it but there's not a migration of that air out it or that nitrous out if there was you would lose the structure because the chocolate can't hold its own structure that way until after it's set into a solid. And so my feeling is you're going to have a closed cell phone, and a closed cell phone where there's no actual continuous path between the different pockets, the different, you know, whatever you want to call them, air cells, nitrous cells, there's no way to infuse stuff into them. Now what would be possible to do is to is to make a, some sort of like BT sauce, and then like, like emulsifier, mix that in and then do it that way. Even maybe with a possible also secondary aeration. So it was a little less hard than it would otherwise be. But I don't see any way to do it directly the way you're saying you can get it to layer, but you wouldn't be able to get those, those holes filled with something else. But as I say, I have been wrong many, many, many times. So it might be a situation where you can aerate the block, cut the block open, and then there might be some open passageways through it and then you could post infuse a product into it once it's solid. But you know, then you're gonna have you're gonna have other difficulties, but I think it's very gonna be a very difficult, very difficult proposition.