Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta Petrie in Bushwick, Brooklyn, every Tuesday on Harris radio network from a little late today, too. We have to work to end on time today says 1155. I'll tell you what happened to me. It's my fault, obviously. But for those of you that live in New York City and take the subways and don't have your your MetroCard automatically renewed for you. Here's what happens when you go to the machine. You put the card, you put your card in first it says what do you want to do? Do you want to MetroCard right right? statue with me on this? And then it says okay you know, what do you want to do? I want to refill this card. If you get to put the card in you don't I mean? So you put the card in eventually after like 18 key presses it's like well, what do you want to do to this code? I want to put money on I want to go to the freakin subway you're going to ask you a billion questions and it's like you share a shirt you're sure you want to go on the subway and then like yet enter a billion times you had never read the credit card in the first swipe. So stars and I are classic joke is is that the Person program you should just put it things have you missed your train yet. Have you missed your train yet? Have I now now now have you missed it? So then finally explicitly everything out and I see the there's one specific segue that will get me here on time and I saw I saw it go bone as I ran up the stairs because I dropped the backside and how they close the front and in the back and then they got big bond. Anyway my fault but

the best is when the machines like we only accept nickels today.

Like I just don't I don't get this crap at all. Like it doesn't take a rocket scientist. You see everyone no offense if the person who programs these machines happens to like hear this at some point, but look, here's a guess if dude, or lady I guess a person dude, he's kind of gender neutral for me right? shoves a MetroCard into the machine. Odds are they want to do something to it right? You don't have to wait to ask them like if they try to shove a MetroCard and just accept it. Just accept it and then be oh, oh, wait a minute. This metro card is a metro card that has money on it. So he must want to add some freakin money to this damn thing. Yeah, I mean,

I'm not making a joke but you're near you have the only subway station that's upstairs both ways. Like

oh yeah, I live at Yeah, I live in an awesome environment where it's like the old uphill in the snow both ways. It's true that Yeah, yeah. Now stars loves it because she has to go there because it's also the subway stop for Booker and DAX. I got a grant. You got to ask Nadine when we leave The radio station. Let me go let me go from here. The radio station. Jack, how you doing?

I'm good. Yeah. What happened at Williams College? I heard something went down there.

Uh, well, maybe we could talk about that later.

Should we save that for after the break?

I mean, all right. So I went to go are you talking about like the thing that made Anastasia actually happy for once in the past five stars has been happy Exactly. Two times in the entire five years or three, four years that we've been working together. What was the person when you got us booked on Jimmy Fallon the first time? You're genuinely happy? And I'm talking about not well, this I guess counts for happy for someone else has been I've seen her happy for other people's pain on more than one occasion. And this one. So this is entirely my fault. I go to Williams and I actually really liked Williams a lot. So we're going to Williams I've never been to Williams College before. And the interesting thing about Jack ever go to Williams College. You ever hang out there? Even though he's the it's a college now University, right? And so the cool thing about it is that the students who are there of the undergrads get to do a lot of stuff that you know, if you go to university, like I'm sure at Stanford, right? Same thing. You go to Stanford, the professor's care most about the graduate students, right? It's just the way it works at the university. I mean, they care about you when you're in the class, obviously. But you know, the graduate students are more important than the undergrads from this point of view of the professor's that time but we go to a college there are no graduate students. So the professors care about the undergrads. So as undergrads got to do some pretty cool stuff. Anyways. So I did a we did a lecture there and associated today. So here's the story that mustache I guess, primed jack to have me tail. And that is I'm driving for like three hours. And I don't know what the hell you know, we are with Peter Kim from from the Museum of food drink. By the way. Are there still tickets available? No, not that event. The one this weekend? Yeah, both. Okay. So the it's the New York. It's the New York food book festival or whatever it's called festival of food books book and food festival Fair Food Book Fair. They have it this weekend in in Berkeley. Yeah.

At the White hotel at the White hotel and be there recording the panel.

Oh, there you go. And the Mofaz Museum of food and drink is having the second of its round table panels. We know what time it is.

Since you're recording noon? Yeah, I do know.

It's at the noon time and the subject is genetically modified organisms and their place and food. For those of you that don't know, do we charge for this thing? Jack? Oh, no. I don't know. I don't know.

No, I don't. mopeds might be a little bit, just go on welfare.org

mode. And then we anyway, we're doing a series of roundtables and I'm moderating but not giving any opinions, which is so hard for me so hard for me. We did the last one on the soda ban. And this one is on genetic, like generally on genetically modified organisms in the food chain. And I am so sorry that I cannot throw my two cents. And the difficult thing of surprisingly, is it was more difficult for us to get, we thought it's gonna be extremely easy for us to get kind of anti GMO people on, but we have only really one kind of hardcore anti GMO person. And then, you know, kind of like a couple two that are vehemently Pro and one that's just kind of more in the neutral zone. But we're hoping to get we have some questions in from, you know, outside folks that are, you know, that are very antiquated. The whole idea is we want to have in these roundtables, a reasoned debate on both sides, not just, you know, show one side of the other, do people at this radio station or the anti genetically modified organism? Jack in general?

I mean, generally, I'd say so, but we're trying to keep more of an open mind around it, because it's not so

black and white back to the Williams story.

Well, while it's like it's not it's not it's not just it's not black and white. It's like, I don't even think that they that the argument is framed properly,

right? I don't think people know what they're supporting or against necessarily, for instance,

like, here's something that people don't think they're there, they're focusing specifically on a transgenic like additions of genes from different species, or even different, you know, whole categories of thing into something for a specific trait. So for instance, the ability to the ability to resist Roundup, right, so you have Roundup Ready things, right, which is an herbicide or the ability to create its own pest resistance without the need for pesticides, which seems to me to be kind of an inherent good, right? Whatever, or increased yield, or theoretically, you could increase the nutritional value of things like the golden rice, it has higher beta carotene level, there's a wide variety things we're doing this, but it seems to me that there's a bunch of different arguments for the harm of it. And other than the moral arguments, like the actual safety, there's also economic arguments, right? I'm not going to get into those. But if your argument is against the safety of it, right? There are things that we do to plants that are much more dangerous, from a standpoint of creating possible allergens right in the food system. Um, so, you know, forced mutation through the application of ionizing radiation, right, which is, like, you know, has been since the Atomic Age has been, you know, a method for inducing rapid change in things like corn, for instance, right? You've irradiated a boatload of seeds. Some of them have mutations, some of them are useful, or very few of them are useful, the rest get thrown away. And you can get new things this way, much higher potential. According to the studies, I've read for possible new allergens and weird crap happening with that sort of mutation than when you're taking a targeted gene that you know what it does already and injecting it in, you know what I'm saying? Anyway, but like, that requires no labeling. No one's saying that we should go label those kinds of seeds. There's no, that's not even on the table. It's not even considered in the genetically modified, you know, the rubric of genetically modified organisms. So it just seems to me that like to frame all of GMO as kind of one thing under one tent, it's done for one reason with one set of goods and one set of harms is kind of silly. No, Jackie with me. Anyways,

I like how you're like squeezing in all your opinions, because you can't give them as you're moderating the panel. You

like that? Yeah. You like that? Alright, so back to Williams. So I'm at the Williams College. And I don't know why the statute because the statute enjoys the embarrassment once she brings it up I have to say it so I I go into my room I forget my luggage is my luggage is is filled with crap for demos like co2 and your clothing. No, my clothing was in my shoulder bag. You said just well, whatever. Anyway, my clothing was in my shoulder bag. And because we cared about my clothing I showed that my shoulder bag and the important stuff to demo goes in my in my in my luggage. So I'm wheeling the luggage in we didn't do it old school Piper where we had an open kind of propane in it that was left on nearly burned his hair off. Remember that? That was awesome. Wasn't really awesome since a year has something so he has my luggage because I don't know if I always carry everything I always carry everything stars my right. I carry every freaking thing. So so like Peter, for some reason thinks he's going to help me out. So he starts wheeling my luggage. So I forget I have it because my clothes aren't in it. You know what I mean? And I'm not carrying it. So it doesn't exist, right? So I go to my room, I've been driving for like three and a half hours, we're about to leave. So I go and I forget to shut my door behind me. It's giant room. By the way, we set up some of these giant rooms. And I forget to shut the door behind me. I don't know, I assume it auto closes or something. I go into the bathroom and I don't shut that door either because I'm alone in my room. And then Peter and stars come to bring my luggage which they didn't need to bring to me because I was going to take it to the demo anyway because all this stuff for the demos in it. And then I see them out and they're like Dave what's up? I'm like, oh my god, I realized the doors open because I'm calling and I'm like, leave the luggage and shut the door. And then to Peter starts wheeling the luggage in starts wheeling it into the well into the into the into the there's a there's a hallway a foyer, right? And I can see that the kind of movement in the mirror and I'm like, Nah, I'm like so I say I say close it meaning the door because clearly the luggage is already inside because I can see the movement of the hand. But here's what Peter here's Closer. Closer. Why would I say closer? That's crazy. So so he starts going right? So I see him like moving closer with the luggage. And I'm like, What's wrong with you shut the door. Although I had some expletives that were like mixed in. But I guess from their standpoint, they're like, why is this guy leaving the door open? And maybe something's wrong with them? Maybe he's dead? I don't know. Maybe he went back inside or whatever. And then here leave the luggage. Close the door. Anyways, so and that that little just to give you an idea of Natasha that little

because you don't understand Dave's biggest fear in life is either being naked or being on the toilet and having anyone to hear him or see him. Yeah,

or I don't like I don't like first of all, I like I only like my restroom in my house which right now is buried in the very back corner of the house and like you know, my wife and I we have our own I don't have to share it nothing. It's like, you know, it's like my little castle area. I don't want to be bothered irritated spoken to

you close your hotel room door. Why?

Look, I made one error and then completely compounded out of all reason. Nuts, call your questions to send 184972128 That's 784972128 like that. Yeah, so anyways, so you can go on the line and go and see the GMO thingamajig at the at the book festival and I recommend checking out because you know what? I like me some books about food. Like with some food books. Does you like some food books? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What do you like? Do you like gruppo? Pizza? Just totally now. You don't know.

I don't know what it is.

It's that super thin cracker crust pizza. Oh,

no. I like deep dish.

What I really deep dish. Where did this come from?

I just love Chicago style pizza. When was I had it in San Francisco.

So how long have you been to Chicago and how did when when you should Hello,

yours like 10 years ago,

how is it that we've been together this long? I have no idea that you liked this kind of pizza love. Which by the way, in Chicago, when you go there, you're like, Yo, gee, I want to try some of these Chicago. They're like, Nah, they're like, No, you don't really want to do that. I really don't know. They're like, ashamed of it. They're, like the people I've spoken to. They're the locals. They're like, ashamed, I guess because they think look, first of all, like when I was a kid, people used to say, oh, New York pizza. Oh, New York style pizza. You have New York style pizza pizza in New York until about 10 years ago, sucked. Sucked hard. It was bad. You know, I mean, there was like four or five places that made really, really good versions of like old school American New York pizza that I liked. You know what I mean? Like, I like you know, like Grimaldi's, I like liberties, like all that stuff. You know, I guess our tourists, I'm forgetting a bunch of people, I'm sure, but like, you know, like us actually kicking any sort of butt in the pizza world really is only the past 10 years, you know, but I've never heard someone say that, you know, they're like, You know what, I really liked none of this crap. I really, you know, DLP and none of that crap, or like deep dish.

You know, if I had to get like a non a non restaurant or artisanal pizza or whatever, I'd probably go to pizzeria 102.

Yeah. Never been I've never been to pizzeria. No. Is that similar to a Pizza Hut style?

No, it's like, it's, you know, they're hoping is like Chicago style deep dish, but I guess it's a level above the Pizza Huts of the world.

Well, I mean, I would guess like, I mean, like, yeah, too hard. Yeah. No offense to Pizza Hut. No offense, offense. It's

terrible. Or offense. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, someone sent me you know, because everyone here who's heard the past couple of episodes knows what I feel about subway and their new flat pizza crap. Someone sent me that there's a new chain that's going to come out with a pizza cake. Yeah. So it's like eight layers of pizza. It looks like deep dish. But it's like deep. I mean, like, first of all people listen, people, people, people. Deep dish pizza works. For one reason only. It's not like a crust. It's bread. It's freaking bread. Right? Right. And when you make a deep dish pizza, and I know this because even though I'm not a consumer of deep dish pizza, I did deliver Domino's Pizza for a whole summer driver this summer. Yeah, yeah. I drove my mom's car with empty plates on it. So you know, I got 60 miles an hour all the time. This was back when they used to actually still guarantee the delivery times. And like they would tell the drivers. Listen, those feet don't break any traffic regulations. But on the other hand, get the freakin people there on time. Get it there on time, and they would give you like three pizzas to do in one run. I was never late. This is like, you know, this is why they should not let teenagers drive anyways. So you pre baked those suckers. And that's how you get them to work by pre baking the Deep Dish thing and then adding the stuff so you get a layer of baked bread. So you don't have that nasty, soggy nonsense in the where the topping you know, meets the meets the pizza now because otherwise it'd be a nightmare. Imagine, imagine stars that you have like sauce against a thick thing that wasn't pre baked at all. That's a that's a nightmare. Right? So do you like the grease spray that they put on the bottom of those pans to get the Deep Dish stuff? Did they do that in Chicago? They have like the layer of grease? Is it baked in a pan? Yeah, but I really don't remember eating now. Anywho so the point is that if you're doing it in a big cake format, how the hell are you going to get to cook right unless you cook them all individually, like Flash cook them, then layer them and then re cook them at the end. But even like an old school like an Italian like a pasticcio like Passito leopard or something like a like let rabbit pie with like the raised sides on it and stuff like in Bucha Ali's old book. Like, I don't think that has lots of paid, you know, dough layers in the middle of it, does it?

I don't know.

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's I think it's a nightmare of an idea. But we'll see. I mean, I'm willing to try a thin slice we who first of all, who wants pizza in that format? Who wants to eat pizza with a fork except Bill de Blasio? Yeah, you know. Okay, so also I was researching somebody's question, what do we do miss something and miss it now? Oh, yes. Mo Fed is having its second blowout benefit on Wednesday. Is this seventh? The seventh? Which is a wind day today. Yeah, May 7, and we have an incredible series of shots coming in and there are still tickets available. Go to both ed.org Because they have a link directly off the thing now, right? Yeah, it's expensive. You wait, you guys wish you had gone to the original one that Natasha and I threw in stupidly only charged $250 For it was crazy. Like you could not buy that meal anywhere near $250. That was nuts. Like the value on that was crazy. We're the dumbest two people that there at least that are sitting in this radio station right now. Oh, by the way speaking speaking of dumb, did you notice that now that the weather's nice Roberta's finally put up a frickin awning What the hell does that mean getting? Some time it's the one day you don't need a frickin awning is right now. There it is now

It is an awning. It's a like a it's a winter door winter. It's

winter vestibule thing. Yeah, no, no. It's like a winter vestibule may rain a lot. But there's there's the inside the eye. It's just a nightmare. And you know what? They put the thing up. But don't they still have the Ratty curtain? Or do they get rid of the Ratty curtain? They've already curtain so like the thing about Roberta's is right is that everything is kind of like and I say this with love, complete love Jack. Right, isn't it? I don't know. But I'm saying. So, you know, I want you to vouch for this. everything put together with kinda like with duct tape, spit and bubblegum? Yes. Right. And they're kind of like, hey, we want a dining room. I'll just get some tinker toys and glue this crap together. And we'll have a dining room and somehow it works for them. And it's great, right? So like it typical Roberta style when you walk in to prevent the wind from like killing everyone at the front. They have a ratty curtain, which, you know, it was nice probably when it started, but it turned ratty, and they kept it and that was kind of the charm then so they kept the Ratty curtain and added the vestibule with some with it. Any thoughts Jack?

All I can say is when it's busy here at night, that spill over it. Maybe it'll help the waiting people waiting.

Who the hell wants to wait in the vestibule? Waiting in

a warm summer night you want to be in a

day cramped and have to deal with a bunch of hipsters nice for winter. By the way, my Booker and DAX were like that. What's a hippie?

Oh, did you see there was a Jesus contest on Sunday? No, yeah. Well, we're running

a little far afield here. Okay, so, so I was researching a question that I'm gonna read you in a second. Should we ever get the questions here on the show? And I came across this, this paper, which I will just read you the abstract of because if you're like me, you read a lot of abstracts of articles and I like abstracts and review articles. But somehow this one captured my attention. So I'm going to read it to you. Applications and function of foodgrade phosphates by Lucina. Lamp Isla, the Department of Food Science in the Louisiana Sea Grant College Program LSU Ag Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana LSU is for Pat. Yeah, go Pat. That's not pat the Patriots. That's Pat moustaches friend. Food Grade phosphates are used in the production of foods to function as buffers sequester, it's a sigil its basis flavors cryoprotectants gel accelerants dispersants, nutrients precipitants and as freeflow, anti caking or ion exchange agents. The actions of phosphates affect the chemical leavening of cakes, cookies, pancakes, muffins, and donuts, the even melt of processed cheese, the structure of a frankfurter the binding hydration of delicatessen meets the fluidity of evaporated milk the distinctive flavor of cola beverages, the free flow of spice blends the mineral content of isotonic beverages and the light color of par fried potato strips Hale year that is an article I want to read about me some phosphates that sell in the phosphates my right Jack Yeah, it sounds pretty good. Hell yeah, I'm like phosphates and they use phosphates to make them more acidic to make them more basic. It's like phosphates and everything. And this article starts from like mining rocks out of the ground to like all of those kinds of things. So if you like a review article like I like a review article, go check out Lucina lamp ILAs applications and functions of foodgrade phosphates available at any you know major academic library near you

can be like a regular segment on the show you review a paper like that you know yeah, that was a pretty good review right there

yeah, well check this one out this one the paper is not so interesting but it this has to have lost something in translation so if I were to ask you what a spent chicken is stars and Jack What do you think is spent chicken is

or the remains of? I don't know

Yeah, that's what I thought I thought it was like they had a bunch of like, you know, like, like partially defatted fatty meat product or like mechanically D boned like that's what I thought they meant spent chicken was Nana a spent chicken is a chicken has been laying eggs for like you know its entire like laying lifetime however many months they allow it before it stopped laying eggs effectively. That's what they mean is a spent chicken so they're tougher, right? And like they're really good for things like soups and stews but I guess these guys are trying to find you know other uses for it. So here's this article that I'm just gonna read the title for you and tell you what they did. It's by Angkor Deus and Dilip Ron John at all, adult brunch on Nath at all and it's studies on certain quality attributes of meat pickled, prepared from spent chicken. Wow, you know what they do? They pressure cook and then they pressure cook in vinegar and deep fry with spices, chicken until it has so little moisture and like so high acidity. They can just sit on a shelf for 90 days without anything happening to it. But like, when was the last time you hankered for a spent chicken pickle? And in the article they call them spent chicken pickle, which is I think a really good band name. What do you think Jackie can start a band called spent chicken pickle? I have to talk to Joe about that. Yeah, speaking of which was that music we had at the beginning? It was band called Snow mine. Yeah, it's a strange combination. Have weepy and optimistic at the same time

can I disclose something funny on there very quickly the the bassist in that band the drummer rather was my my boat my orientation palate NYU, and he was dating at the time a girl named Stephanie German nada who was one of our classmates and Yeah, exactly. She went on to be Lady Gaga. Oh really? Yeah. Her name is German auto German nada. Stephanie German nada. Yeah, so

any skinny on that?

I mean, I didn't like her band in college. Whoa.

Well, you know, I heard her band in college.

I wasn't a fan I wasn't I

wasn't a fan I just didn't you know I thought it was derivative work. musician's Dear David Anastasia Jack at all thank you for your assistance with my last question on suevey Fried chicken. I haven't tried it since then. But your description of the problem with my processing spot on? And this is the question by the way that I was researching and found phosphates and all sorts of other things. I did fried chicken for Easter directly but the lady and the Rite Aid right. No, maybe I'm at the I'm at the Rite Aid. Like you know, in February, and like the head Easter crap out she's like Easter and even Valentine's over yet. Not Valentine's Day. Valentime like it's a time of day Valentine. Even Valentine's over yet. Anyway, I did fried chicken for Easter. So whenever I say Easter now I have to say full Easter and attempted to deep fry some bread and butter pickle chips to snack on. Bread and butter pickles if you like the bread butter pickle does I know really? Do you like any pickles?

Yeah, I like really hard ones.

You don't like sweet pickles? Yeah. But not Breton. Battleships. No. Notice Do you like so? What type of sweet pickle Do you like? The thin small crunchy suckers

small crunchy.

What are your thoughts on the bread and butter pickle Jack sorry, that's attracted. Bread Butter pickle like him?

Yeah, I like him. Yeah.

Relish like relish? Nope. No, no. Really? What about tartar sauce though? What what do you put on your on your fried on your like, you know New England style fried seafood play don't get that you don't like fried seafood platters? I'll tell you some people. If you go to like the average, you know clam shack on the in the ocean like Jack's. I don't like the food. Okay, but if you go to them, right with the exception of like real East Coast lobster roll, which is decent, right? If you're given a choice, they always have some crap called like the admiral platter or something like this. You know what I mean? Always get it fried. The broiled is a huge mistake. Huge. You don't like fried clams. Even with bellies on the fresh I don't

like I don't like seafood. Well, let's see if I liked the I don't like fried seafood or cooked seafood. I like a lobster roll. I don't like lobster.

Sea fried seafood for me. I'd rather do like lemon on it than tartar sauce. Really? Yeah,

I'm not weird. Like just lemon. Yeah. Do you like mayonnaise on your french fries? Nope. We don't like french fries freak show. Okay, I use a flower buttermilk flower process which is similar to the one I use for chicken and found that the flower generally rubs off quite a bit from the pickles after the buttermilk dip, leaving them partially on breaded. Still delicious, but I think they'd be better with evenly adhered breading Do you have a surefire way to get good even breading adhesion for fried pickles. Thank you for your help. And I can't wait for my series All Jeff Mays Los Angeles, California when he says Los Angeles. So here's the here's the deal. So I cheat. So the old school like low tech would the problem you're having is the high moisture content is creating like a lack of adhesion of the batter. So you're getting some slough off probably right at the beginning. I don't know whether you padded the pickled trips really, really dry before you started before you did your first pre dust but I'll typically do that to dry because I've done a bunch of I used to do a lot of fried pickles, you know and I would dry them off a little bit. If that's not enough you might even want to try letting them sit on a rack for a little while just to flash off some of their extra moisture because what you're most likely dealing with here is a moisture control problem now because you know all I've ever learned about batter adhesion tells me that you want the surface to be you know, tacky and dry when you start now of course you know going against that is the style that they do here and the pies and thighs style of fried chicken where they literally take it out of the brine and throw it right into the flour but you know I've never I've never tested everything I've learned to said that in high moisture situations there's adhesion problems, and also problems when you're frying have what's called blow off where chunks of the batter will flow pop off during the cooking or slough off or not adhere properly to the food. Okay, so if if it's not adhering beforehand, there are a couple things you can do. You can add special I don't do this but you can add specialty starches to the mix. So I like a battery bind or there's another one that's used that's actually not sold by monitors pantry not made by national starch is made by the other corporation. Its name slips my mind right now, but you can add that will and they're usually I think they use some form of oxidized starch because they're, they're pre pre done. oxidized starches are usually what they're using in the battery adhesion ones, but I don't really remember why it's remember they're oxidized starches, and those will increase adhesion dramatically. And so you know, I was looking last night at some at some microscope, microscopy and also just cross sectional things of different pre dusts containing either nothing control flour as a pre dust containing methyl cellulose and containing oxidized starch and the oxidized starch Sure enough, we're like wheat, they're awesome in terms of adhesion, so you can try adding a modified product like that to it. Or you can do the really old fashioned way if you don't mind having a heavy batter coating on it. A lot of times for difficult things like okra which tends to slip off a lot like okra even though it's got hair on it like phyto Chris does haven't had it there I don't think oh my god. Jacket about fried

okra. One of the few things I don't love Middle East it's a little slimy

Oh, I'm not talking okra chopped up in a gumbo. I'm talking fried, whole okra pods. You had it?

not fried. I've had whole okra pods but not fried

or listen. slimy. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. When you're when you're like, Okay, you need to come over we need to make you some fried whole okra because they're not. They're only slimy when the stuff on the inside kind of escapes. When it stays on the inside of its own pod right when you're frying it. It it still is what it is but it doesn't have the feeling of slime Enos because the outside is like super crunchy the fried the fried okra on the outside and you want to you want like a thick crunchy breading layer on this. The outside and the inside is like melting and soft but does not come off as slimy at all and they're great. The trick with it is is again do not cut them at all leave them whole and make sure when you're shopping for okra pods in the store assuming that you don't have your own okra plants. You want to a lot of times especially where I live they prepackaged the okra in like little styro packs. You want to feel the okra pods because they start at a certain point the okra pods start getting woody on the outside and the you can feel them you can feel the ones that are tender and the ones that are less tender and just stay away from the ones that are less tender because you're not going to be cooking them a long time like in a gumbo are super just gonna be frying them really quickly. So you want them to cook really quickly. So make sure you're starting with tender okra pods, bread those things and fry them in that is some delicious stuff. And I've never had even I've had people who hate okra, and I've never had someone come back and say you know what, like, crap on that that's not delicious, because that stuff's inherently delicious. But back to what I was saying surprisingly, you would think that okra would have good adhesion, but it doesn't because it doesn't pick up pre dusts. Well like the the flour, pre dust that you put in a typical mean everything depends on what kind of batter technology you're using. So there's people who do pre dust and then in a liquid flour batter, I don't do that I do pre dust into liquid, then into a solid again, that's typically what I do. But if you're the pre does does not adhere at all to okra. So what you do is you do a pre dust a marginal amount of sticks, then you do your wet, then you do your solid and it picks up some but still isn't coated. And then you do a quick rewet and then a quick quick solid again, at which point you have a nice thick, thick batter coating. And if you don't mind having that thick of a coating the double deuce on it always makes it stick to or to any damn thing. You're never going to get it and that's what I do on especially on products that have a high high rate of meltdown. It's like mozzarella sticks. Do you like fried mozzarella sticks? It leaves no cheeses. Jack fried mozzarella sticks? Yes. Okay. The hell's wrong with these people? Not you Jack. You just saved yourself with that one. Fried mozzarella sticks. Do you like do you like grilling cheese like queso par three era? Hello? Me. No grilled. You had it? Really?

I don't think I'm at it, man. No, I know I've had it. I don't have an opinion only grilled

cheese like grilled cheese delicious hot and turn squeaky when it gets cold. Yes, it says Well that's why you gotta eat it when it's hot. That's why you eat it when it's hot. Either worlds her either worlds. So the new so I would use that I would do that. So if you don't want to do the double dip, which is inherently going to get it then the you know, the next thing to do in terms of ease is a partial pat down of them beforehand and dehydrate your pet pat down and partial dehydration. Not not not so that they lose their crunchiness just they're a little bit dry a little bit pellicle formed on the outside. And then the next step up from that and technological difficulty is to Add some modified starch to the pre dust or to use a modified starch, just the pretest and one of those things should help you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Does that make sense? Yep. Good. I love frying. Do you know that I have to I had to decommission my fryer. They tell you that there wasn't a leak that I tell us on the air. They talk about this. I have to get around it. I have to get

Yeah, I don't

Yeah, my God. Okay. Question. I don't have who the question is from that hit that okay. Hey Dave, Natasha Jack at all. I'm a big fan of the show finally caught up with all the back episodes a few weeks ago. Question number one. My wife and one of my daughters have a gluten intolerance. After much gluten free baking experimentation. My wife has found the most success using recipes for baking mixes from the gluten free on a shoestring blog. HTTP gluten free on a shoestring.com All Purpose gluten free flour recipes forward slash. One of the keys for a palatable texture in baked goods is using these big good using these mixes is a super fine a brown rice flour and a superfine white rice flour. Buying the superfine version of either these flowers is rather expensive. The best superfine Rice's we have found are from authentic foods.com But a regular rice flour results in ingredient Yeah, regular rice flour kind of sucks. We have tried using both our crappy blender and our food processor to grind a regular version of his rice flowers to a finer consistency but are not happy with the results of Vitamix is already at the top of my kitchen wish list. Is that going to be the best tool to use with some kind of mill be better.

And that's chip Smith. Was chip Smith. That's his name.

Oh hey chips. I was like I was like I was like that sounds awesome machine. Jackson's

shout out to John riper. Oh, yeah, just because

do you want to do it? Like you want me to answer this question. You want to do the quick commercial so that we get our get our bills paid. And then let's do it.

Why don't pass is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse and its own USDA inspected poultry abattoir, a slaughterhouse we partner with whole foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey, one family one farm five generations out in 45 years. Full Circle return to sustainable land stewardship, the humane animal Stockman ship. For more information, please visit our website, white oak pastures.com.

And we're back. Hey, Jack had a question for you. Yeah. Do you know of any farm that has its own USDA inspected a red meat abattoir?

Yeah, they also happen to have one of the best voiceover talents in the game working there.

I know that like that guy like owns that he owns

it. He owns it will Harris we have our

own red meat abattoir guy like I would buy, I would buy red meat from that man.

Yeah, right. It's available at Whole Foods. They're the only five plus star rated poultry yet at Whole Foods.

They don't I don't have it in my whole foods. What Whole Foods? Do

they have that? I'll have to get back to you on that. But but check, because my

son Booker, the older one is obsessed with animal welfare ratings.

That's awesome. He loves it.

So he's like, he'll like the whole, here's the mistake the whole foods made, right. So those of you that don't shop at Whole Foods, if you go to a Whole Foods, they're in their meat counters. And in the in the cases on the side, not unprocessed goods, usually like salumi like liquids and all that stuff that they carry, which wouldn't we will talk about that. But the on all of their kind of fresh meat goods, they put animal welfare ratings on it. The problem is this, they start at one and then go to five plus, with one being the lowest grade that Whole Foods accepts. But it's still, you know, from an animal welfare standpoint, better than nothing, you know what I'm saying? So they were they made, like the tactical error, I think, is that they and a lot of the stuff they have is ones a lot of it, you know what I mean? Like the majority is ones and like, don't you think they should have like, made it from like a one to like, seven? Yeah, and then not and then not bought one and two, and be like Whole Foods only buys 34567? Yo, you know what to say three will