Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by white oak pastures a five generation Georgia based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information visit White Oak pastures.com

I'm Grace Bonnie of after the jump and you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

And we are back. Welcome to cookie cookies coming to you live but not from the bird is Jack. Jackie there. I'm here. Jack is in Roberta's pizzeria hanging out the radio station. Unfortunately, I have to call it but I didn't want to miss again. The stash is also calling and he does. Hey, how are you? Where are you? You're in Midtown somewhere their kitchen layer of Stacia tried moving downtown once and she couldn't handle the downtown area and can't basically survive anywhere other than in Hell's Kitchen. It's pretty much true stuff. Very true. Now. Well, how am I doing you? Well, not too shabby. All right. But next time we'll do it in the in the in the radio in the radio show. It's been a crazy couple of weeks, the first two weeks. I was like literally flying on Tuesday and Tuesday. And so you know, we couldn't do the radio show. And then the week after that last week, I was doing flog raw, which we can talk about. I was shooting a flog raw thing for vice. We were talking about the Flog, rabanne in California that was passed on time ago that just went into effect about a year and a half ago and so they're doing a documentary on government intervention in foods in foodstuffs that focus mainly on focus 100% on the on the Flog, razzing, but actually got to visit when I was in France, a before Agra farm where they're doing the garage on geese. Yeah, so the force feeding, the lady would not attempt to force feed me. She would I asked. I specifically said, Hey, can you stick that tube down my throat and do it? She's like, now. Now she wouldn't do it. He left us you would have done it. You totally would have showed that to us. Anyway, anyone out there with a question call your questions to say 184972128. That's 718-497-2128 was exactly what I just did. I just called my question into someone. I can't remember. I can't remember the number has been so damn long since we've done it. But anyway, I could we could not miss another week. It's been been too too long. So when we get to some of the questions that we had written in for last week, Brandon bird wrote in on vacuum me Later we could talk about swag right? You want to talk about Barbara later on? Sure. Anything else? Anything else been happening? Anything good. Anything bad?

No, nothing. Nothing we should talk about on the radio.

Yeah. That's not meant to sound ominous people anyway. Brandon bird wrote in not like Brendan Byrne arena, Brandon Byrd wrote in about vacuum, vacuum machines searing and Jack you might want to take note though, I'll tell you the last thing he wrote. He said, please ask Jack to play seltzer by bluedot. It's one of my favorites when who actually likes the seltzer song Jack.

Wow. You're gonna have to give it to me. I don't have the master bluedot Copy?

No. Oh, yeah, that's right. You put it up my phone that time. We gotta get

that in the rotation. Yeah, well, the first real Bluto first real bluedot super fan.

Yeah, well, we do the Soul series that Sean is that and I don't have that problem anymore. Because this is why like, the song is no longer currently I wrote. I wrote those lyrics along with our band in like, 1990 or something that 9999 Like 9192, something like that. And so the deal was back then that you know, you had to buy yourself certain bottles, and then you have the bottle that's left in the fridge. I don't know if I'm sure many, many people who listen here probably drink Seltzer, right. I mean, that's probably fair that a lot of us drink bubbly water. Because you know, if you like me, you probably like bubbly water. But my mom doesn't. My mom doesn't like bubbly water. But anyways, point being that back in the day for those you that are old enough to not have a SodaStream or a carbonation unit. You had to buy bottles of seltzer. And the problem always was is that you had in Jack Do you like seltzer? Of course. Yeah. Stars. No, you like seltzer? You buy? What? How many liters? Bottle D Biden liter. One liter. Why don't you buy a two liter bottle of seltzer? Because, yeah, cuz it goes freakin flat.

I know I'm gonna make

much worse and flat soda. So you can buy a two liter bottle of soda and drink it over the course of like a day and a half or something like this. And you're alright. But a seltzer even though you drink vastly more seltzer than you drink soda. You always buy one liter bottles. And that's because it just tastes horrible when it goes when it goes flat. But this is so the whole song is crafted around this idea. And I remember like I would buy cases of seltzer and someone would come over they're like, Can I have some selfie? I guess wine a little bit and I will be always pissed because if there's a crack that bottle, that bottle is ruined. Yeah, it's over. You know what I mean? It's like it's done. And so yeah, so that song was basically about that. The whole phenomenon of seltzer going to crap in your fridge. all goes

well, can we host the bluedot reunion concert

and had to find all the I mean, I know. I know. Where I know we're two out of the three other folks in Bluto are one of them is still in New Haven. One of them is a lawyer here and it's got to find that third person he was a classics student at the time and for all I know he's a classics professor now we could find them.

Well, if the listener demand goes up enough, we might just have to make it happen.

Yeah, replace seltzer life be awesome. And that was that was just our one food related side was actually we had another song with a slightly food related thing called a weakened account sparklers. Because sporks are awesome, as everyone knows, anyway. Actually not awesome. Like you love like sports, one of those things where everyone loves the idea of the sport, but the sport itself is always disappointing. We noticed that. Yeah, kind of like gin and tonics were like the idea is so awesome. But most of them suck. Someone's gonna come up with a good sport someday. Anyways, back to brandenburg's question. Thanks so much for your hard work over the years on the show. I've been a reader of the blog for a while but only recently took it upon myself to listen to the podcast. I had no idea what I've been missing. That's like I do I've had to listen to every damn podcast. Like it's even worse. Like she can't even although she does try to zone out, it's like much more difficult when you're actually sitting next to me. My wife says, That's very true. Yeah, I managed to listen to your first 100 episodes over the past couple of months, which that's some dedication right there. That isn't dedication. While going on long walks with my dog. It's been tremendously rewarding an entertaining experience. I've learned more than I've ever managed from your show. So please keep up the good work. I've got a few questions for you guys. I recently acquired a chamber vacuum sealer, a VacMaster VP 112. Which, by the way, is one of the machines like the lower cost machines. A lot of people ask me about that. We've had to start how many people have asked me about a lot, right? And I haven't used it so I can't, you know, I can't I can't comment. And the first thing I did was buy some fruit and some booze to experiment with vacuum infusion. Good, good man. I was extremely happy with the results but was surprised by how much flavor from the fruit was transferred into the surplus liquor in the bag. I've done rapid infusions in an easy canister, you know the whipped cream canisters, but the results in the chamber bag seemed to work and terribly well to the EC infusions. So I didn't do a Control Test. Have you done any experiments to see how these two techniques compared to each other in terms of flavor extraction to either offer advantages of the other Action. Have you ever tried doing a pressure infusion in an ISI and then immediately transferring to a chamber of act to get further extraction? Alright, so let's handle that one first. So they are a little bit different. And, you know, come November time when my book comes out, I've written like extremely long winded, you know, chapter on the difference between between the two of them, but you can get comparative comparable results. In fact, I came up with the the pressure infusion idea, as a result of thinking about the mechanics of vacuum infusion. Here's the difference. When you're using a vacuum machine to infuse, you're putting a fruit or whatever, into your booze, you're sucking a vacuum, and infusion hasn't started happening yet, right, what you're doing is sucking the air out of the fruit. So the fruits got all these air holes in it, you suck the air out, right? But no infusion has happened you might be now at some point you're boiling, probably unless it's really cold, you're boiling some liquid out from the fruit onto the surface. So you're getting probably some transfer of literal fruit juice into the liquor at that point, like right at the get go, right, but you're not infusing anything into the fruit yet. All of a sudden, you let the air back in, and wham, the air pressure comes in. Obviously, it hits liquid liquid is incompressible, so the liquid gets forced into what used to be air holes in the fruit. And now you have liquid booze inside your fruit, right? So now you have fruit that has some booze in it. Now, maybe some flavor in the liquor disappoint coming out that much. If you suck a second vacuum, you reboil that liquid out of the fruit. And now you have both a fruit that's infused and a liquid, it's infused. Right? When Yes, this is similar to what you get in, in an EC. But the issue is, is that the pressure differential in a vacuum machine is only ever about 15 pounds per square inch. Whereas the pressure that you can use to force things in and actually increase the rate of diffusion and the rate of things moving around is much higher in an easy bottle, right. And what I've noted is that the higher the pressure, when I increase the pressure and NEC, the higher the pressure, the kind of more rapid the effects of infusion are, so you're getting a more rapid effect. So I would say that the EC is a lot more flexible, because you have a wider pressure range to work on. And it's also easier to do longer term things in an AC because you can keep it under pressure for a long time. And also, you can, I would guess that you can do multiple easy things without losing as many volatiles as you would if you were stuck in a constant vacuum on things which can cause loss of volatiles through distillation. So I think there's different but they can be used. They can be used. Similarly, also easy, you can do warm versus vacuum, you can't. So you can speed infusions by doing things warm, or even hot. And another thing that made a difference, the main disadvantage of the see, right, there's two, the two main disadvantages ECR one, you're limited in volume, you can only do what your canister will hold, right, that's the main one. And the second one is you have to spend money every time you do the infusion because you have to buy the cartridges. So those are the two main disadvantages, the main disadvantage, but for instance, if you're getting a comparable result in your ECE to your vacuum, I would say and you want more infusion, I would say add an extra cartridge. Bang, you're gonna get more infusion, I normally do all of my infusions with two cartridges, all of them, sometimes three, but they don't let me say that. And then you know, after that, I can also instead of letting it go one to two minutes, I can let it go 345 minutes and really ramp up the the the infusion. The reason I don't is most of the time when I'm doing a rapid infusion. I'm doing it specifically for the effect that it has, which means that what the rapid infusion does, as opposed to traditional infusion is it, it can pull out flavors in in different ways. It's hard to explain. So for instance, in in a hot pepper, you have the flavor of the pepper, and then you have the heat from the pepper in a long term infusion, you get a lot of the heat and the heat a lot of times can drown out the flavor of the pepper, right and a shorter infusion time, you get more kind of equal levels of heat and, and pepper flavor. Right. So now I can do one of two things with the rapid infusion. Now I can either let the rapid diffusion go longer, and then it's more like a traditional infusion, which means it's going to have more heat in it. Right as opposed to pepper flavor. So the heat will rise in relation to the pepper flavor. Or I could just add a ridiculous amount of pepper and keep the time the same. And that's in general what I do. So when I'm trying to do rapid infusions, I'm usually trying to take advantage of some sort of differential infusion that happens over short timescales. And so instead of increasing the time, I increase the amount of ingredients that I'm infusing so we You're tasting two things, you shouldn't just taste for the strength of the overall infusion, right, which can depend on a number of variables. But you should taste on the balance of the infusion as well. But vacuum and EC are doing somewhat similar if turned on their head kind of things that make that make sense.

Yeah, it does.

Now, I have another question. I'm backing feeling garlic and botulism, this is a good one, because I've gotten this one a couple times do I usually do low temps to the Cooking For immediate service at home. But since I got a chamber back, I've wanted to do cook, chill, freeze, cooking for economy and deliciousness, and time saving my friend time saving. When my chamber vac arrived, I stocked up on chicken breasts that were on sale and cook them at low temp at 62. For one hour with garlic, olive oil and some wheat herbs buys like nonstick weaves. That's my standard technique for cooks serve low temp chicken. And let the rest for 20 minutes at room temp and submerge them in cold tap water for 20. And then show them a nice water for 30. Before moving to the freezer, man, somebody's really like read up on their focus. So that's the full goo. So chilling technique, by the way. So for those of you that aren't like a hip to cooling curves on low temp work, you and I thought this was a load of horse crap. But, you know, years ago when BrewDog was so who's the, you know, the chief, one of the chief guys at cuisine solutions, they're kind of the, you know, one of the grandfather's of low temp cooking. You know, he told me that you don't want to chill meat incredibly quickly when it comes out of the bath, because you want to reabsorb the liquids more. So you wanted to show slowly, because if it shows slowly, it reabsorbs more of the cooking liquids that it exudes as it as it you know, as it cooks, it exudes liquids, if it cools more slowly than it will put it back in. And so he has this ramped cooling thing. And now we're like, oh, it's crap. It's this crap. And then we ran the test, and it turns out to work anyway. So you've been doing your homework on the cooling. But anyway, it was only a few days later that I realized that there's a botulism risk cooking with garlic in a vacuum. I'm reasonably sure that these are safety would appreciate any clarification you could offer on the relationship between botulism temperature and vacuum levels. Okay. When I say this before I get into a long winded explanation, so that someone might lose track of what I'm saying. It's fine. It's just not a problem. The problem with botulism will not grow in the freezer. Botulism will not grow at 60 degrees Celsius. Right. So when you're cooking, the problem with botulism is that botulism isn't botulism isn't destroyed by either freezing or by cooking at normal temperatures, right? So it won't, you can kill the vegetative work there. There's two things that happen. There's vegetative cells, active bacteria. And then the reason that botulism is such a tricky little weasel to work with is that it also forms spores. So whenever you start killing off botulism, botulism bacteria, rather, whenever you start killing off botulism, bacteria, some of them turn into spores. And those spores are extremely resistant to being destroyed by heat have to pressure cook to get rid of them. And that's why when you pressure cook something, all of a sudden, it's shelf stable. Right? Okay, so you're not going to do that. So the issue is, is that as long as you heat it, right, you're not causing anything dangerous because you're cooking and destroying vegetative cells. And as long as you cool it, and then keep it frozen. And you did it a reasonable amount of time. There's no way for those spores to read germinate into vegetative cells, then go from that stage to reproducing and producing toxin. Right. So the long the short of it is, you're okay, the dangerous the really dangerous thing would be to cook garlic. And the reason why everyone picks on garlic is because people a lot of times we'll throw garlic into oil. Garlic has a fairly high water activity. And it comes from the soil. So it's, you know, in botulism is ubiquitous means it's everywhere, but a lot of times the soil, you throw it into oil, the oil environment seals it off from oxygen, you have botulism growing on the garlic, and you know, you're done, what you could be done, that's why that's why it's always garlic and botulism, because it's common, you want to do it, it doesn't look dangerous, etc, etc. So as long as you're doing this, what you're saying, you're fine if you were to store those suckers at room temperature while you get hosed. You know what I mean? That's incredibly dangerous, but you can store there's there's nothing inherently dangerous about garlic in oil, as long as you're keeping everything at safe. Holding and storage. Temperatures make sense? Yep. Okay, and final question. I know that you like to see your low temp meats in a scorching scary hot pan. I've heard you may Can the standard consumer range won't get quite hot enough to produce the level of SEER that you prefer true, Intel my Cirrus all time I Cirrus all arrives unless searing a cast iron pan over either Mike rat gas range or my gas grill Weber Genesis e 330. Which I haven't used that one. Today I tried searing revive which is always a good call a revives good steak that I brush with clarified butter and a cast iron pan that I preheated on the grill for 20 minutes. My infrared gun style thermometer indicated the pan was 820 Fahrenheit when I put the steaks and immediately they smoked up like a bastard It was intense. What lipid if any, do you coat your meat steaks with before series, and you have a preferred temperature range that you aim for? Thanks for the show and best wishes. Brandenberg Okay, yeah, it's kind of smoke like a bathroom. This is why like, you know, like my wife gets angry sometimes like when I have handwriting again at one time I bought a I think I told this on a show one style. They tell us on the show once we're here. I'll do it really quickly. It was her birthday. And I wanted to make some really good steaks. I bought a charcoal, like a mini charcoal. hibachi which does that ever end up giving that to you? Or is that one too burnt out?

No, I think you know, yeah, I haven't yet.

But that's a different one. You got you got little Joe that we got for the school. We tried to do the same thing. Get the school member, right. Yeah. And everyone was all pissy about the smoke. Yes, everyone gets so pissy about smoke. It's like everyone wants to be all like, you know, tough and like my mama says there's a little bit of smoke. People get all whiny. You know what I mean? It's so ridiculous. You know what I mean? It's like, don't get me started. I mean, look, I entered like I'm a firm believer in like air quality in general. And no, some issues with I've never, I've talked about a bunch of times like that preliminary research years ago on cooking fumes from walks, and women in China and increased levels of cancer, cancer, but whatever. I'm not talking about that. I don't know why. But as soon as there's any smoke people are like, it's smoky, smoky in the kitchen. Anytime you look at

your lifestyle. So many but then the fire exceeds that fire when everything goes off. You know?

She's like, Why does everyone gets so we're and then I watch the fire thing goes off. People set up your fire alarm. You set up the smoke alarm,

and he says he can cook.

Yeah, right. When he was so freaking irritating. I was like, This is why your food tastes bad because you're not willing to set off the damn smoke detector. When you're cooking something you don't I mean, I would rather take the hit up the smoke detector and have the steak taste good. Excuse me. That's where my priorities are. Right? My priorities aren't with. Okay, okay, I'm backpedal a little bit. You can't piss off the people who are going to eat so much that they're not going to enjoy the food because then you're shooting yourself in the foot. It's all about the enjoyment of the food. But I just get so irritated that people can't. People can't just, you know what I mean? It's just, it's a constant source of irritation. Jack, what do you think about this?

I'm still tripped up on spores in that Anastasia didn't

say anything all over what a spool is

not a sport anyway. So here's my thing. Yes, it's going to smoke like a bastard, that's just a fact of life. You can't really measure the surface of your pan and get an accurate temperature what's going to happen because the temperature of the pan will probably drop fairly quickly once you put the meat on it. As for but it's good, it's a good it's good. I mean, I'm I'm usually are rockin somewhere around 650 or higher, it depends, like cast iron at like 700 is thin, you're gonna get more char out of like a giant stone rock at 800. I mean, all depends on how fast they can, it can deliver this stuff. So cast iron, that should be fine. In other words, like that temperature should be fine, but it's going to smoke, and you're going to need more oil than you think what I typically do, I typically use olive oil by the way. And what I will do is I'll put the pan on, I'll get it hot. I'll pour oil literally into the pan, it will immediately start smoking. And you just want to be careful because it might ignite here carefully put the stake into the oil the reason the the pre cooked steak, it doesn't conform to the surface of a pan like a raw one does. So if you just brush with oil, you're liable to have blind spots. Whereas if you had like a good, you know, eighth inch or something in the bottom of your pan, you'll hit all of the points and you'll brown all the way across the thing. But just be aware it will catch on fire. There will be flame and there will be smoke and you should just tell whoever's looking at you and calling you incompetent to shut the hell up and sit down and get ready to eat the steak. That's my feeling

all right. So your quick break. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back with some more cooking issues

why don't pass is the only fun I'm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse and its own USDA inspected poultry abattoir, a slaughterhouse. We partner with whole foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey, one family one farm five generations on in 45 years of full circle return to sustainable land stewardship, you mean animal Stockman ship? For more information, please visit our website. White Oak pastures.com.

Oh, yeah, have a trois. The way that man says avatar makes me want to go get some slaughtered? You know what I'm saying? As well, I don't know that guy. All right. Data rights and about PID controller. So for those you don't know, maybe this is the first time you tuned in or whatever PID is, is the type of controller stands for I think proportional, integrative and derivative I think or something like this controller that's used to do all of the immersion circulators. And because what they do is instead of the temperature like going up, and then overshooting the mark, like a standard thermostat, and then going down and up the porpoising, back and forth, they like ramp up and then they stay solid on on the stay solid on the temperature that you want. That's PID controller. And that's what we all use for our immersion. circulators. A common mistake people do is they think they want to add like a PID controller to things like a deep fryer, which you don't The reason is a deep fryer, you want to go as fast as possible. It's all about recovery time. PID aren't about recovery time, they're about accuracy. So always remember when you ask for PID make sure that you actually want one that said, you often want one okay? To Dana's question, and it's always had this problem you think Dana is a man or a woman?

Man Why? Oh, God, I

feel like it's mostly men. You know what, like, you're probably freaking right but it just pisses me off so much this goes back to that article that that lady wrote years ago we worked with me or many many was working with me I think it's someone you work with me when the time's right an article saying about like, like technology and kitchens, like about boys and their toys. I was like, it's ridiculous. So great. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, why is it why is it that? Why is it it's associated with men? It doesn't you know, you know what? I want to build an electric kettle for brewing beer a brew in a bag style brew in a bag, I think Bruna bag came out after I'd stopped my home brewing but fundamentally, what you do is you put the I guess you put the you put your grains in a in a fat ass sack is ludicrous would say and then put it into the kettle that you're eventually going to use? And then you can pull it out stead of having to have multiple containers to do it in. And yes, here's his brewing bag eliminates the traditional three vessel system and uses the kettle as the mash tun and boil kettle. You like ludicrous stars or no? Yeah. He's pretty funny. I don't like as long as that's good. Like some of the stuff I think is really good. And then some of the stuff when it's Commando? I don't know. I like it when he's got some more of a sense of humor about himself. You know what I mean? Yes, I'm going to use an old keg as the kettle. And I'd like to use a 240 volt 5500 watt heater element to heat up to 10 gallons of water. And by the way, Dan, I didn't have the time to do the calculations, but I'm sure you already had there's plenty of Google calculators out there where you can calculate the heating rate, you know, you assume a certain efficiency for the heater, but you can calculate the heating rate for a particular volume of water with a particular wattage of heater. So I'm presuming that you've already checked that. But that sounds good. I'd also like to use a PID controller. So I can accurately hold the water at mash temp for 90 minutes, then raise it to mash out tense mash out. So when you're mashing when you make a beer, you take the grain, the grain has been barley has been malt in the malting means that it started to germinate the enzymes are there, therefore to break the carbohydrate in the barley down to sugar, right? And then, you know, that's that's how that works. But you have what you have to do is eventually raise the temperature enough to kill the enzymes and killing the enzymes off. It's called mashing out so that you don't necessarily get at least that's my memory. It's been a year since I've had to do this stuff. So back to the question. See them? Well, that was a long way around my actual question. So I've been listening to Dave a bit too much. Yes, again, he's saying a question. We're presuming it to he is so long that he's been listening to me because I do the same thing fair. I know there's a lot of info on the forums about electric brewing, but all the info seems to assume that the reader possesses some electrical knowledge of which I have little, not none, but little so I assume it goes like this. Well, maybe he has a like a directional kind of diagram. Hear, which I'm not going to go into, I'm just gonna tell you the right way to do it. So a heating element involves the heating element, the PID controller, the solid state relay, and the plug into into an outlet, right? Now, here's the issue, you're using a 240 volt thing. So you're gonna want to be careful, 110 is not inherently safe, but it's more safe than 220 or 240, wherever you want to call it. So you just want to be a little bit careful when you're using voltages like that. Especially because you're going to be switching the, you're gonna be switching that kind of high voltage, so it's gonna be present near where you're working heaters are dumb elements, right? So all the heater wants to be have happen is to get plugged directly into a wall, right. And so what you want to think about it is, is that the PID controller, and the solid state relay, all they are is a switch that is going between the the wall current and the heater. So here's how it works. First of all, make sure you have a PID controller that can run off the 240. Otherwise, if you need to, you can run off two circuits, you can run the PID off of a wall socket, and you can run the heater off of a 240. What's not necessary, many PID controllers can handle the direct 220 slash 240, most of them run at 220, like 120, to 240. And between 50 and 60 cycles. So you could take it to Europe if you need to anyways, but just read the specs on it. So then you take an extension cord. Now remember, this is not the advice of a trained electrician, electrocute yourself at your own peril, this is just how it works. So then you take the end, depending on how you use it. So for instance, in a normal 110 line, you have a power, and then you have a return. And the power has got the full 110 on it, right 125, where we want to call it 120 We're going up and down AC, alternating current, and then the other line is basically dead, it's a return that you send the power back to ground on to the circuit thing. So you could touch on an AC, regular 110, AC line 120, you could touch the neutral. And you know, lick your don't do this, lick your finger, touch the neutral and touch something and you won't get shocked right now, standard household to 20. That's not the case, both lines will be hot all the time. But they'll be going opposite of each other, right. So you have 110 on your 120, let's say on each line. But remember, AC is a wave, it goes up and down. So they go opposite each other. So it goes all the way up to you get 120 plus 122 40. So you're there's no safe, there's no safe line, right, so you're gonna have to do it a little bit differently than you would with with a 110 line. But it's fundamentally the same. So you need to apply power to your PID controller, then the PID controller has the c one, two, maybe this three, four has these has, it has power, right, which is going to be your AC power lines that you got to attach to it from the plugs on the wall, it's then going to have a thermocouple input, right, which has two connectors on it, make sure you hook it up. Because especially if using a K type thermocouple, it's very easy to reverse them. Because the red one now is getting messed up after remember the red one, which you think is positive is actually the negative but I have to I have to go and look at it again. I appreciate it. And then you have usually a relay, we usually there's a small solid state relay in the PID controller itself. But that relay is not intended to handle the power of switching something big, like a 5000 watt heater, right. So that's why you need sometimes they just says it puts five volts out or whatever, it's fine, or 12 or whatever, fine. That's why you need the solid state relay. And the reason you want a solid state relay, and not a regular relay is I hate that clicking first of all, like they're, they're fairly cheap now. And real relays, they sit there and they click and also real relay, especially a big power relay relay like that doesn't like to be turned off and on very rapidly. We're to Solid State Relay, there's no actual moving parts, it doesn't matter, it can turn off and on as much as it wants. So like your PID controller, if it's sitting there pulsing the, the heater off and on, it's not going to bother, you're not going to hear a click, it's not gonna have a mechanical issue. That's why it's solid state relay. So, what you do is you have the power of the wall power goes to your wall power goes to your PID controller, your thermocouple goes to your PID controller, one wire, your the, the in and the out, go to the low voltage side of your solid state relay. And then on the other side of your solid state relay, you have one side of power from the wall going to one side of the heater and then on the other side of the heater coming out of it you have it go to one of the the output of the solid state relay and then the input of the high voltage side of the solid state relay. It then goes to, to back to the wall. It's making sense to us. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what's happening is, is that you're putting power to the PID controller, the PID controller is sending a low voltage signal to the solid state relay. And this and the solid state relay is in effect, like just flipping a switch that is opening and closing a circuit between one of the two wires in the high voltage circuit that is the heater. See, I'm saying that made more sense a little bit. It's very hard to explain on the radio, very easy with a picture very hard to explain on the radio, draw a picture and then tweet it or something. Yeah, to do that. Are there any safety features you want to add? Since I have friends who would like me to build one for them? So I want to make sure it's completely safe, you know, and not burn their houses down? Yeah, just make sure that you only ask I haven't I have to have an architect in the room with me. Do they have 240 volt GFI? Which I would look, I would make sure that you could you have a GFI socket, and I've never worked with 240 with PID. So I mean, all my knowledge is on 120 and 120. I just make sure everything's in GFI put fuses and everything and just make sure you're totally safe. But I will. I will. I will draw a picture and tweet it. Does you have a good you have a good good idea there. Any conclusion? Or year 1000 involves a podcast so it's good. Dana says give me a big ol Yeah, on the podcast. I've listened to the entire back catalogue twice. Keep working. Wow. What's up? I can't imagine that. Now. That mean either. Nick writes in about Doritos. Hey, Natasha, David. Jack. I like making popcorn as a snack. That's a good statement right there. Right. I mean, I like popcorn is a snack, you guys.

It's the best popcorn good product.

I like making popcorn and snack. And lately, I've been playing around with flavorings. I'm trying to recreate the flavor of zesty cheese Doritos available in Canada because they are delicious. It's also a good reason to do something I've never had as st cheese to read out. But you know, cuz it's Canadian. You know, I got a picture of it here from Nick. And I have to write it in French as well. And set the cheese in French sounds terrible. From my middle. Like Morton didn't sound delicious.

Why are there so many flavors of Doritos now?

Oh, that's an interesting question. So like, one of the things. One of the reasons why you have so many flavors is any company that's looking any company that has like a product, let's say Doritos, right? And there's a bunch of other snacks out there that you can go for. Right? How do they make sure that you buy Doritos? Well, they could put 8 billion different flavors of Doritos in there. So that just more of the stuff that you see is the rido right. And plus you already liked Doritos. And so if you see some other snack that you don't know, and then Doritos, which you're apt to like anyway, you look at you like oh, that's the cheese. That's a new Dorito I will try that. Yeah, and so like that's like over the past, you know, I don't know how many years like like, that's one of the big that's why you see like 8 billion different new Oreos out there to it because like, you know, they're they're, they're leveraging on the Dorito name, creating all these line extensions to just kind of like, you know, increase the Dorito profile across the board. Doesn't mean that they don't love the original burrito. I mean back to Nick's question. I adapted the ingredient list to what I had available at home, mixing a spice grinder and got something that tasted pretty good, but not much like Doritos. I use nutritional yeast cheap and provide a Tejas cheese cheese ish flavor salt onion powder and garlic powder which by the way I did test on him powder and garlic powder I know that people like it I hate it. What do you think about it? I don't like it at all. Jack up the onion powder garlic powder so

not a fan. I used to like garlic powder on a pizza

on the radio before but I don't mind it in like that the the kind of like burnt flavor that like garlic bagels have but I don't even like garlic bagels but I liked that flavor in and everything bagel like that's the only time I like that flavor is its present in everything bagel.

I used to put it on pizza garlic powder when I was younger

but like like not like last week we're talking like two years ago right and it really it

years ago kid before I knew anything yeah

how much how much would like next week when we back out when we're all together at the at this show should I bring I think of garlic powder and and start sprinkling it over the pizza and see what they say Roberta's

I dare you.

That'd be sweet Right? Or oh it's worse like garlic salt. I'll bring garlic sauce. A big container of garlic salt and start shaking that stuff on us and we love what what

just put it on all the tables it Roberta's and see how the management response.

Leisha Just don't say anything about it just like as you say get in trouble a little bit

minimal

because we love it any Jesus still work there?

No, no, he's gone.

He can't straighten it out with us then he can just his benevolence would fix everything. Anyway, nutritional yeast, salt, onion powder, garlic powder, I only recently got some MSG and citric acid, which is one of the reasons also why the yeast stuff is in there because it's any sort of protein breakdown powder to get that kind of umani crap in there, and citric acid and I'm curious to see how adding those will get me closer to the right flavor. And then he included my issues the spice mix does not adhere to the popcorn well if it is added after cooking. Yes, it is true. A lot of the spice mixes fall to the bottom of the bowl. When I'm only using finely ground salt add to the pot with the kernels and it sticks great. If I do that to other spices, they just burn best because spices burnaware Salt doesn't look I do to get a nice coat of seasoning on the popcorn. I got an answer for you that would make this not a problem and do you think it's realistic to get close to commercial flavor without a bunch of industrial ingredients as close so you can make a good flavor. FYI, I pop my kernels in a pot with coconut oil on an electric range. He then sends me the XFT cheese details. Here's the list of ingredients. Corn maltodextrin, which is just a bulky so we're talking about the powder and how you this is a seasoning ingredient list. So maltodextrin whey powder, salt, MSG, onion powder, sugar, cheddar and parmesan cheeses, corn syrup solids, natural artificial flavors, Carla garlic powder, citric acid, sodium casemate, autolyzed, yeast extract, di sodium I sent, I can't pronounce it, I can't pronounce it and di sodium guanylate. So like the autolyzed, yeast extract, and the and all that other stuff is there so that they don't have to add as much MSG as they want to add that stuff to creating that kind of stuff, cheese flavors from the sodium caseinate, the whey powder, the Parmesan cheese and the cheddar. So you can just jack lay actual cheese powders that you have in it instead of doing that, probably to similar effect, the maltodextrin is in there to bulk up the spice powder so that it so that it's you know, kind of bolt better. And the onion, the sugar, the corn syrup solids, maybe is there for water? I don't think so. And that natural artificial flavors which were input the spices in, right, and the citric acid that's all there for the flavors that you're looking for. So you could probably mix something like that, you've got to make sure you get the MSG, right, the secret that you don't have, is that what they do, and this is what's going to blow your mind, what they do is they mix that spice mix into an oil mixture, and then spray that oil mixture on to the Doritos. And that's how you do it. And that's how you do it on popcorn too. So the reason that movie theater popcorn is so incredibly caloric, right? Is that you is that they pop it and then they spray or pump the butter mixture on top of it that has that flavor, right. So they're adding a bunch of extra oil, and you're gonna have to do the same, you don't have to add that much oil. But what you do is you mix the spice into a slurry, right, so it's like you know, not a pace, it has to be runny enough to coat then you can stick the you can stick the popcorn wanted to be hot and you want the oil to be hot, but not burning leaves and burn the spices. And then like swirl it over and then put it between two bowls and shake the hell out of it so that it coats all around, look and see if you have enough, you can add some more and do it. You can actually if you have a tumbler you can spray it in. You can spray it in while it's tumbling is the best way to do it. But very few people. Very few people can do that. We see what you said how you pop it again. You pop it on an electric range. Yeah. So if you have a worldly pop, you might be able to turn the popcorn machine off and spin it a little bit. I don't know how much you're really going to need to get a lot of good education but the secret is oil slurry. Now what do you think sounds good. Alright, Paul, he writes in Hey Dave, and moustache a new love for Jack. I've been making my own almond nut milk for a few months and I've recently noticed that the milk will separate a lot when I had kosher salt. Separate a little bit when our mid salt and stay together when I add Kelton gray salt. My suspicion is is because the kosher salt is acidic while the gray salt is more basic. Do you have any guests why this might happen? Paul II, I have a guest but I don't have an answer. I was trying to do some research. I didn't have time to do the research on it, but I can try to look for it next time. I think the issue here is that you have the almond milk might be the almond milk might be susceptible to certain to certain ions and not others. So Kosher salt is exclusively pretty much sodium chloride NaCl. Whereas Keltic gray salt is probably has a lot more of the other impurities that are present in seawater like magnesium, or calcium and it's these kinds of die valence. These kind of die valence ions that can sometimes do things like clot tofu and other things like this. And so I don't know, because I haven't done a test to see whether almond milk is sensitive to dye valence positive ions, but that is my guess. But I was going to do some research on almond milk. I didn't get a chance, but do some research on that poking around. I'm pretty sure that's the I'm pretty sure that's the answer, but I don't know pretty sure though. Steve from Miami writes in Hey Anastasia, Dave and Jack I was wondering if Dave could dive into a few tortilla victimization questions. For those of you that don't remember, Nick's civilization is the process by which you boil and soak grain typically corn in a an alkaline mixture typically made of calcium hydroxide. And then you let that soak for a while. It does a number of awesome things like break down the C code make it easier to grind partially cook some of the starch out so that it forms a coherent dough and turns the outside C code of the corn into like a hydrocolloid maths that helps to bind masa into the awesome stuff that we know is tortillas. It's the reason why tortillas are tortillas and not just cornmeal pancakes. So could you recommend a good source of corn readily available in the US I came across WWW dot rho v c.com. Size is not the one we use didn't we use Roe v. Stars you guys, they're stars. stars stars last the line. The phone got disconnected. I think Roe v is the one that we used. And then Roe v was recommended to us by the tortilleria nixtamal which is the tortilleria the only one for a while that was doing it here in New York was doing the their own externalization so I think those are the guys that we use. The problem is is that it costs almost as much to buy from to ship this 50 pound sack as it does to you know if you're only doing it a little bit as it does to just the corner effect the shipping was more than the corn. So I think any local unless you're going to buy 50 pound sacks in which case Yeah, go to them. But you know, I know that Danny Danny violence that he was using Anson Mills that's super pricey, but if you're interested in kind of super pricey, heirloom corns, that's another place you might want to go. And then do you have any experience with the next thematic grinder mill or any other equivalent to grind mill fresh nixtamal to masa? No, I wish I did that the next ematic is the one that the oh my god then his name was planted in my head. The guy from the famous bean place in California. Anyways. Rancho Rancho Gordo beam, he has one he says they're awesome. And you can get them in Mexico. But he's as far as I know they're not available, looked awesome. But no, I've only ever used the corona. I've used Matata monos that was a pain in the acid not recommend doing that, which is the traditional way to do it. I've used food processor. Again not recommended. The reason is is that you have to add too much liquid to it to get it to grind properly that way and I've used the corona hand mill which is made in Colombia but does use this sort of stuff. And it works but is a pain Yes. It's just really a pain to do so. But everyone who I know that using axiomatic says it's awesome. And then the next question how long would fresh matzah last in the fridge vacuum sealed or not? I think fresh masa oh here. Here's an I was wrapped around other stuff. Could you free fresh made tortillas without a huge loss on quality? Or are there some best practices the whole fresh tortillas? PS can't wait for the series all to arrive. Thank you and cheers, Steve. Oh, handle all those those last two questions at once. Here's the thing, once you make it once you make Messiah, I think the moss I think it's better to hold masa than it is to hold tortillas. Once you take a tortilla and heat it and then it kind of cool and you cook it you do its initial cook. I don't think it's ever the same again, ever. I think it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, when you go and they make crepes and then they reheat the crepes and they're not quite as good as when they made them fresh. I think it's much more so with a tortilla. I think a tortilla really wants to be eaten right after it's made, you know, maybe reheated a little bit like it was made a couple of minutes ago or like you know, an hour ago but I think a tortilla is like on a downward spiral right after it's made. Masa on the other hand, I think can hold a day in the fridge better than a tortilla can so if you're going to hold one I would hold masa. So mean that's just that's just my feeling here. Here's my level. Here's my level, my quality levels. I would say I would take a so my secca is the is the flower that you use when you're not making your own Moffat's like the it's like you know instant masa basically, I would say the height of the tortilla is a nicely made fresh masa