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Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of curfews us coming to you live Roberta's pizzeria on the heritage radio network in Bushwick, Brooklyn every Tuesday from late really late today. Hmm. Son of a gun, where I was supposed to be around 12 to about 1245 Speaking of 1250 I don't know what times 50 Jack? Yep. 50 Well, we got 5550 55 We got we got our boy, the fearless leader of our of our network, Patrick Martin's has a book coming out soon. Yeah. And he's he's coming in to talk about it man around 1240 or so right around 414 full round out the round out the program with a little bit of discussion of the of Patrick's new book, so that for later, also, we're being we're being brought to us by Wisconsin cheese right

now. Wisconsin milk marketing board. Yeah.

In Wisconsin, but you know, like I was thinking about if you were to actually count all the cheese heads as like a separate cheese variety. You'd have hundreds of 1000s of varieties of cheese in Wisconsin, you know, I'm saying it's right. In sweet cheese heads. Everyone loves it. You know, I used to have a cheese Head hat. I don't know what the hell happened to remember that we used to have the cheese Head hat at at SGI was originally Jeremy's who was from Wisconsin shift Jeremy who then like kind of donated it to us and then somehow I think someone stole the cheese Head hat. You can't keep one around people love the cheese had had so much even though they're viciously uncomfortable because foam rubber hats are just like silicone. If you ever wear a foam rubber hat for any length of time, you want to take that on as something you're going to do like where the foam rubber had for lunch. Yeah,

we shouldn't spend too much time on it. But I did learn recently that she's had as a racial slur toward the

Dutch. Eu while they make some they make some Dutch style cheeses in, in Wisconsin, so maybe that's ended up but in Wisconsin, it's no parts racial slur, who said was a racial slur against the Dutch, the internet, the internet? And did was there any actual, like angry Dutch person somewhere?

I mean, I'm sure if somewhere yeah, it's just you know, there's like a database of racial slurs and it was listed. I mean, German soldiers used to call the Dutch cheeseheads.

In in German cops. Oh, we got a caller. Yeah. All right. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. It's David from California.

How you doing? You Yeah, good.

I got a question about pressure cookers. I'm up at altitude, and I can't use I really can't use an electric pressure cooker. So, is there some way that is there some way that I can get a setup without getting too DIY that I can I can sort of have a setup that I can walk away from that I can you know set for my my my pressure that I need and then walk away from it, but have that extended pressure that I need at my altitude,

right. So first thing you have to do so, I mean, so obviously at altitude, you can use even like an electric pressure cooker to get to the temperatures that we can down here on our on our you know, low altitude setting, right. The first thing you need to do is you need to calculate the pressure difference between where you are and and sea level, right? I mean, what you need, what you need to do is you need to figure out how many how much excess psi you need to get to that same temperature what, three psi three, so you so you need to pull a band aid team, you need to do about 18 psi relative PSI to be getting to my to my atmospheric levels down here where I am. Yeah. Okay. Now, there's a couple of ways you can do this. All of them are obviously not recommended by the manufacturers, right. So on the electric pressure cookers like the Cuisinart you can they're not actually sensing pressure they're sensing temperature so you can mess with it right I posted an article on that once I don't necessarily recommend you go and do that because your risk of danger eccentric cetera

Yeah, I've seen that article and that's it's that's above my head anyway.

So then the the next two like like, depending on I don't know of a good way to alter the Fager style pressure cookers that have the little twist knob on them. I don't know I don't have a good way to modify those. But if you use old style jiggler weight pressure cooker so it would Tawny used to make them American pressure canner still makes them right. America pressure canner is interesting. Like the problem with it is it's aluminum. And so if you're going to do a lot of acidic work, some people don't don't don't like it, some people don't like cooking aluminum and also like a lot of them are very big. But the American pressure cooker Canada record Corporation, they're the only people that have a gauge that I really trust. Right now they're an old jiggler style, which means that it's going to be venting, which is not ideal, right? Because you know, if you've read my stuff on pressure cooking, I don't really like pressure cookers that vent if you're going to do things like stock that said, that said what you can do on any sort of jiggler style is just what they're fundamentally doing is they have an orifice of known size. And then they put away a certain weight on it. And by doing that, they know kind of at what pressure the steam is going to force the weight off the top and then have it sprayed down, right. So what you can do is increased the weight. So if you're going to have like an American pressure canner situation, you can just, you know, add weights to their jiggler weight. And in fact, the American pressure canner is nice because the juggler wait has like three different holes that you can use. And they have three different weight settings depending on kind of you know how hard it needs to push that to go up. So you take the highest one, and then you add enough weight has to be down low. So it's not off center or anything. And then you look at the gauge when it starts venting and you can set it to since you only need three psi over pressure, right, you can do that because none of the safeties on a pressure cooker are going to start engaging until well over three psi over their limits. All right. Yeah. Now, you you've talked

about the pressure sterilizer before and I was looking at that is have you ever tried to control that? With a with an induction burner?

Yes, but not I didn't try very hard. Right. Okay. So yeah, you can you can put a pressure cooker in, in a in a temperature controlled oil bath on an induction burner, and you can do it right. So the question is, if your if your induction burner is good, is pretty good. Right? Then, you know, let's say it can with you know, it can maintain, you know, plus or minus four or five degrees, then you could just use the sterilizer or even, you know, like a like a heavily modded regular one with a juggler and just Yeah, and have it just go to that temperature and you can verify that it's reaching the temperature you need by looking at the gauge. And I have had, I would say moderate success, I was using it because I wanted very even heat transfer when I was doing custards on trying to do pressure, dirty and custard, and I was never able to succeed and remake the one and batch them maybe by accident one day is still a lifelong disappointment for me. But yeah, you can do it. But I think you know, you're going to be easier. Like on a repeated basis, just being able to try and do it on a stovetop by modifying that that juggler Wait, now if you if you're moving to something like a coon recon, right, and Akun recon, the pressure is determined by the spring, there's a there's a spring that there's a spring that force it that you push down, right? Sorry, there's a spring that pushes the valve down. And as it as the pressure increases, it pushes from the inside against the spring, up up and you see first ring and then you see second ring, and then after the second ring, you still have more pressure, and then after another, you know amount of time, then the Community Con starts to vent out through that valve, right. My guess is that that venting doesn't happen until around three psi over pressure over the 15. So I'm guessing you could probably get 18 out of a clean recon before it starts venting, although I'm not sure. Now here's where things get hinky right, you could you could put a stiffer spring into that Kuhn recon thing or, and I'm not saying I recommend this, you could perhaps stretch that spring to give it a little bit of a permanent set. So it's a little bit bigger, so that you have to put more compression on it to get it to the right pressure levels. But unless you have some adequate way of measuring, let's say, using an oil bath for measuring purposes beforehand, right, then if you had an oil bath to measure beforehand, you could set it to a temperature that you knew is 18 psi, which I forget the number is going to be somewhere around 250 Something Fahrenheit, right? You could see where it hits, you could stretch the spring out a little bit, reassemble it and then put it at 250 and see where it hits on the valve and figure out roughly how much you've adjusted the pressure that way. Does that make sense? Yeah, okay. I mean, I don't not, I can't recommend any this crap. But if you have a good induction burner, I would set it to about do you remember? Do you have to remember offhand what the temperature is for atmospheric for sorry, for 15 psi at at sea level? It's like 250 something right?

It shouldn't be 250. Pretty much on the dock, right?

Yeah, somewhere around there. So I would say if you have something like let's say even have a hard you could do with a circulator actually set it to just don't do it in plastic, right, set it to two don't mean if you have an old metal circulator, I should say, set it to 250 Fahrenheit, and, you know, put the thing in the oil bath and just wait a while and see what Well, let me start this way, what kind of pressure cooker Do you have? I have a customer. Okay, good. So set it, set it you know, in that bathroom, if you have an induction burner that can do a pretty accurate 250 set it with, you know, with like, you know, it's not a lot of water because you don't want it to take a long time to heat up, you know, like, you know, like, you know, a finger or so of water, wait for it to heat up and see where the where the pressure thing hits. And if it hasn't made it to vent level yet. If it's just like, you know, it's over the second ring, but not quite venting yet. Then you can kind of figure out where you are, then obviously, let it cool down and do your modification. The good news is if you hose it, you can buy that spring is not that expensive, like that spring, you can buy it from Flynn recon, I've had to buy parts from them. I forget whether you have to email them directly or not. But he knew an interesting thing. You know, maybe we should ask someone like Kuhn recon to make a special spring for people who cook at altitude, you know what I'm saying? Because for them it would cost nothing. You know, that would have been that would be nice. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to tweak it but why don't you give that a shot and if you could call back with with your results and appreciate it because I like to know whether things like this work.

Yeah, I liked my curry come to work I you know, I'd be willing to get to all American sterilizer if I need to

a little harder. They're a little hard to work with me honestly, I've only used the really really giant one and I use it because it's really giant but it's not nearly as you know, it's a lot more of a pain in the butt because it doesn't have any gaskets or gasket list which is good for some things but not necessarily good for ease of just using a pressure cooker all the time because it's got these little screw dads that you screw down it looks like you're like a submarine bulkhead or something like this with these like screw dads you have to screw all the way around. You have to make sure that they're sealing because if you don't you know do it like you do a tire lug nut if you don't like go across in a star pattern you can like torque the lid of it. And you know they are aluminum. They're really good at what they're good at and the gauges are really good but I don't cook with mine I use I use it for experiments. So if you can get your coon recon to do what you want it to do I would get your cool recon to do it when you want you might want to buy a spring first and then dork with that spring so that you're not like high and dry in case you do something horrible. You know what I mean? Yeah, I was not expecting and also, I don't know if like, you know, I often disassemble my Khun recon for cleaning. So it's pretty easy to get to the, my memory is it's pretty easy to get to the spring, just unscrew that, unscrew it from the bottom hold on to the thing, unscrew it from the bottom, you should be able to pop the entire assembly out for cleaning.

And there's just no way of taking a direct temperature measurement in the cooler calm

there is but it requires drilling a hole through it. Okay, you know the other or temporarily disabling one of one of its safeties. So like there's a, there's a rubber safety plug in the side of Akun recon, it's a little blue silicone rubber plug, you need to replace it every once in a while anyway, mine blew out. That's what I knocked knocked in at the lab, but like a year ago, and like spray chicken grease all of a sudden, and that's does remember it well, right. So if you get an extra one of those plugs, you can drill under like drill that plug but under like only a little bit and then shove a thermocouple through that plug down into your product and do a direct measure of temperature. But then you're going to want to throw that plug away and put a fresh plug in when you're done. I mean, that's I wouldn't run it all the time that way, but it's a temporary way to get it exactly where you want it. And again, those plugs aren't that expensive. So if you get a rebuild kit from Kuhn recon, they'll send you the if you tell them what you need, they'll send you that plug in again, I would I would drill out your old one because it's always nice to have a fresh club and you know, they'll probably send me a new gasket at the same time I forget exactly what I got but I got a complete rebuild including the stem assembly with a spring I got the the plug and everything the or you could just get a new plug and measure the temperature right before it starts to vent so that you could you know do it without any spring modification at all you might be able to get the temperature you need with no modification you know, okay, but you know what I'm saying you understand I'm saying about that plug that little that little blue plug underneath the if you pull up the Qunari cars come with a plate that fits over the top little like little rattling plate that's meant to deflect steam down should all crap no wrong. I lost mine years ago so I don't have one of those plates, but then you know on that little thing and the inside is a blue as a blue silicone plug that is removable from it's removable but popping it out.

Okay. All righty. Let me Yeah.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. So

okay, let me know how it goes.

Okay, thanks, Dave. Appreciate

it. Michael. Alexander. Oh, we were talking we talking about says

nothing. No cheese heads.

He says no. Yeah, I think we're done. Anyway, my point is my point is is that like, I would like any Dutch person to call to call in and say whether or not they're actually offended by by a challenge. That is a challenge I want. I want someone who's actually legitimately offended by this to call in because I don't think that such person exists

as a caller. And he's in studio with a book. All right, Jose,

we have Patrick Martin's in the studio. Whoa, hey, what's up nothing and he's he's here. Hawking the carnivores manifesto, the new book by Patrick Martin's with with Mike Edison, who by the way, was the editor in chief, I believe of High Times. Yes, he was. Yeah. And, but then also did a bunch of Athan a bunch of other good books with right like,

Joe Bustan itches restaurant man with him, which was a New York Times bestseller. Yeah, it was about the underbelly of the restaurant world and what it's like to open restaurants and it was a fun book for him to write.

He also told me that Hugh Hefner hates women,

Hugh Hefner hates women and he hates Hugh Hefner. He's worked with all of them, who's the guy from hustler? I forget. He loves him. He loves all those guys, but he'd never liked to have.

Well, he said that, you know, whatever else you think about Larry Flynn, right? When there's many things you can think about Larry Flynt, he said that Larry Flynt, legitimately not when I say likes women, I mean, I don't I mean, I'm not going to try to portray hustler as you know, a paradigm of I mean, put it this way, Larry Flynt enjoys the company of women that's what I mean to say not likes them in sort of a you no reasonable way.

I assume a man Yeah, well, yeah. He he's really been on that dark, dark underbelly of food of life of culture. And that's why I thought he was great guy to partner with for the book because I was not looking to do a traditional, oh, this is sustainability. And these are labels that you need to be looking for at the supermarket. There are basic truths out there. You know, gastronomy Karla Petunia, we said, gastronomy is not a strictly opinion thing. There are facts and gastronomy some things you know, that's why 95% of all cheese people think parmigiana Redondo was the number one cheese in the world because there's certain agreement about although

that's as all they know, that's something that's been cited so many damn times and I don't I don't believe it. I don't understand it the best cheese for what it's not the best cheese to to like to like, you know, put on a piece of bread when you're eating it. Right. True. I mean, parmigiano is an amazing, amazing cheese. I love it. I know but I hate all sorts of best best this or that. Like if you were going to I mean, what's the best cheese to have the glass support? It's still like I think everyone agrees that the best cheese have the glass support. It still

is Well, I do agree that The certain best Top Things are bad but like, you know, I don't like top 10 lists where if you do top 10 restaurants in New York City, the top 10 should always that should be the same list every year with rare exception that someone gets bumped on or comes on or bumped off. And so I do know what you mean about picking the best. But I like to know what's the best terroir for wine in America, we should start ranking those things. Because if we're ever going to see ourselves like France does them and Italy does them, we have to look at ourselves as a gastronomic mosaic around the USA, and recognize expertise where it exists. It makes the best peaches as does Western Michigan, as does Ohio. But New Jersey, that's not the best peach. And by the way, for all the talk about the best tomatoes coming from New Jersey, I don't know if they Oh, oh,

la la la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la. Whoa, now you're telling me that you had a better tomato than either the aunt Ruby's German, green or the German or the German stripes from from Stokes, isn't

it? Yeah, um, well, that's a good question. I can see I crossed the line here. But I mean, I think that's better because it's local, although I do have a chapter in my book that says eat the best. Yeah.

I mean, I think I agree with you like, like, on one level, I agree with you in that. I think what Europe has done really well is say, look, here's a product that has certain characteristics. And let's put it let's like enumerate and preserve these quality characteristics, right. So in other words, like pursuit, the department they like, we can all agree what the best pursuit of department is in stylistic terms, and let's protect that and like, give it a label. That makes sense, right? It's not saying it's the best ham in the world. But just saying, you know,

within Parma, there's a hierarchy,

or there is a particular style, it comes from here, were the best at it. You can't make it. You know what I mean? Is that I mean, I think that maybe we're agreeing. Yeah,

maybe we do agree. I think I think we agree on most things. So I think you'll agree when I wrote one chapter was called Alphabet Soup. And it was about your museum of food and drink, and I lost my arm, our museum Art Museum. Thanks for making me the vice president. I did say it's a giant leap for mankind. And it really is because I was saying, the fundraiser the other day, you know, if you had said it was 16 102, guys, like you and me, were sitting around and be like, let's do a museum that involves animals and all that, like, what should we do wild animals from Africa? And is that the future? Do you think food museums is the future back then? Almost everybody would have said food museums is the future. And yet not only is it not in the future, there is not one food museum in the world that can maintain itself, right that there is a natural history museum in every major city in the world. So it's just funny how it's 100% to zero there is not one food museum that's like a real big picture Food Museum.

So that's, it's a travesty. It is.

It's crazy. Who would have ever bet their money that there would not be one food Museum. But that was just one chapter. And so let's let's

talk a little bit about the carnivores manifesto. Is it out right now?

It comes out on June 10. And unfortunately, you cannot buy it on Amazon because my publisher hatchet is out

your time that's gonna be over soon

how it was last time that you never know. But either way you can buy them Barnes and nobles.com. Or most importantly, you could support

your local bookseller or you can you buy it from Harry's radio? Yes. So

we'll have copies for the heritage radio Of course,

here and then we then the radio station makes the makes the profit

the profit. Yes, that's true. Yeah, it'll be huge, huge financial.

So let's be let's talk about this. I'm presuming that this Amazon thing is gonna blow over because it's bad for both Amazon and the publisher.

Well, hatchet is put down the hatchet, they said, We will not tolerate this type of price pressure anymore. And so they are you know, this sounds like one that could last a little longer than the last time

so you're telling me they're mad as hell, they're not gonna take it anymore. Yeah, they're just not gonna take it. So let's, let's look at one of the chapters. You mentioned it a little bit but when you were writing the book, we were talking and this is kind of the one that's going to generate the most heat for you personally. Is is a third chapter to hell with local eat the best. And so it's my invitation. Thank you. So I mean, this is a really interesting thing because usually people and this is something I hate kind of about all commentary of all subjects everywhere. Is someone who thinks about you and thinks about kind of heritage foods in general is going to they paint they're going to paint you with the same brush that they paint everyone who is involved in the kind of or was like the for instance, the one of the founders Slow Food USA which you were right, paint you all with the same brush, that is your all locavores you all believe you all have a unified, you all have a unified view of what good food is and what's important and you know what we should be doing, not the case. I think the average person like this person here that's drinking some form of iced coffee. outside the studio, if I were to ask them whether or not you or someone like you would be a, like a confirmed locavore, they would say yes, but in fact, no

soap who was never about eating local called Virginia founded soap food if the best anchovies came from Sicily, and the best lentils came from Puli, France, and the best, you know, whatever I mean, he would go anywhere around the world to get the best meal he could. And whereas he always wanted to reward local terroir and local gastronomy. In fact, he was probably the major reason that Barbaresco and Barolos became so powerful in the mid 80s, early 80s. They were terrible wines late 70s. He was a big proponent. So you should always try to reward and improve your local terroir. But by saying that, you know, no offense New Jersey as the best tomatoes when perhaps another region or let's say peaches, it's just not the case. You're actually propping up a third rate product, you're hurting the farmer you're hurting your own gastrin gastronomic experience. And I just think it's important to be the best and to recognize that each region of this country makes certain things. I mean, would you I know pigs that wouldn't even hunt for local truffles in Oregon. And I would refuse to hunt for them because they're not very tasteless and I'm

not going to get in the in the in the Throw Down on on Oregon truffle and they're not the same clearly doesn't mean that they're bad. They're not the same.

But you shouldn't need to log Oregon truffle and be like, this is a fantastic truffle, shave these and use them like you would truffles because it's local. That's ridiculous. They have a long way to go. And maybe they shouldn't even be focusing on truffles. They should be focusing on other things that the climate is adapted for. You know, and that just think local is a distance. It's not a guest gastronomic term local is just a distance.

Is there any moral problem to buying stuff at a distance if you can afford to pay for it?

You know, I mean, that's an interesting thing. I mean, I think, you know, money is a big thing. I have a thing, one of my chapters of the $140 Turkey, I was gonna ask you about that, it to claim that you know, the $140 Turkey, well, let's say the $10, Turkey, the $2 a pound turkey, it a genetically it's been manipulated. And the most important chapter in this book is called survival of the fattest. These big corporations, they breed for genetic misfits, if it leads to more profits, so they suffer on that level, they are so sick from their bad genetics, they're forced to grow so fast, so much faster than they can that they need antibiotics pumped into their feed just to survive. That's an unhealthy turkey. People shouldn't eat that. And whereas we're not perfect, and we know it's always a slow turning of the wheel. And it's not an overnight thing to tell a poor person that they should eat and unhealthy Turkey is classist and borders on racism even I mean, it's it's a classic thing, the poor person should be told the same thing that the rich person is told, you will be unhealthy if you eat that turkey. Now, everyone needs a BLT with bad bacon in it that comes from a curl system. We're not a utopia ik book that, you know, we understand about reality, but the rich person should be told the same as the poor, you don't have a dual standard for what you tell them. And if that was that Turkey is a sick Turkey, and is unhealthy for you. That goes for rich and poor. We might have to eat less meat in this country. That's an answer. But we certainly should never make a different argument to someone because of how much money they have in their bank account is an unhealthy animals and unhealthy. And

this is an okay, this is That's true. This is a long and tough argument which we should have against each come back on, again, to have an argument about this, because it's hugely and this is like one of the museum topics in general, the hugely difficult but on more personal level. I mean, I think right now, I mean, I think it's, it's obvious that you know, the average person, you know, where everyone in the family if there's more than one adult in the family has to work, you know, more than they would have, you know, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, for less money and they want to put food on their table. There's a huge disincentive to spend

to culturally I'm just talking about me this is like hard on me

but like, you know, if you want to be if you want to be, you know, a member of America, have your kids not think that they're living in privation, right then, you know, the image of American culture is that we have, you know, the meat on the table, you get the chicken when you want it, you can have the beef when you need I mean, this is like this is still like the cultural you know, I you know, ideal of what it means to be a semi prosperous American. So it's very difficult to tell someone that they shouldn't go buy a product that makes them and their family feel like they're doing well are doing okay, you know what I mean?

Well, I think it's more important, the way you are inside the health of your body. I mean, Temple Grandin just came out with a statement that said 80% Then of all, between 20 and 80% of all chickens arrive to the slaughterhouse already injured because of how unhealthy their bodies are. Those very same companies dump a lot of the industrial waste from those farms into rivers. So if a poor person needs that chicken, they are complicit in the crime, a crime that I commit to all the time, but they need to know and everyone needs to kill that elitist argument, because we should all strive for the good chicken and to tell everybody anybody that they should now I understand you should also strive for meat on your table to be part of the American thing. But we also can't unwittingly shield the robber barons from criticism. Goldman Sachs's of the world in the produce, I

mean, like the the problem is, is that I think Nobody argues that there's a whole bunch of externalities that don't show up on the price tag and Walmart, you know, and I mean, to producing a chicken, let's say, there's a but you know, the issue is, is that I think it's very hard to it's very hard to get people to change. If the price if the price tag remains the way it is, and the externalities to producing the crappy chicken or crappy Turkey don't like make their way down to the price tag. I think it's a hard problem to solve.

Well, it is our problem. I mean, I personally think pasta is and we said, there's a chapter in there. These are all 52 Page essays. So you know, they're very short essays and the meatball shop, they do it that that dinner at the meatball shop competes with the dinner at McDonald's. If you order one of their value menus, you know, like, six 655 95 Meatball shop also what about pasta? With Ragu on it?

Yeah, no, it's Yeah, definitely. That's

the truth. That's where we have to get in fact, I write in the vegetarians who have blood on your hands chapter that this might be the greatest manifesto for vegetarianism ever written, because of how critical we are of fast food.

Do you know Temple Grandin works from McDonald's? I know

and then fact I think that not to be fair to temple. McDonald's has co opted temples, good work at the slaughterhouse and by the way, all those animals are killed very well at McDonald's, but they Co Op her good image to give the impression that everything they do is good, when in reality, the her real effect is on those last few minutes of the animals and that's hugely important. But the rest of the time they're deforesting. They're deforesting the Amazon, they do all these terrible things, those animals are pushed to grow faster than they can, and then they shouldn't naturally that's why their cardiovascular, skeletal respiratory systems cannot grow that fast. I've heard stats that a chicken at slaughter weight is the equivalent of a 349 lb human, when we start doing that to our livestock, and that's a lot of the percentage of the meat we eat in this country. 90% 95% Something like that. That's a fact and survival of the fattest, not the fittest is a real issue that I think this book brings up and I in fact, I learned it from Frank Reese, our poultry guy who was doing this from an ethical perspective, and he's chosen to fight that fight by growing chickens that are not compromised genetically for profit. There's a difference between genetic engineering and you know, what farmers do farmers breed for certain things too, but they're looking for a balanced animal one that could survive in nature and reproduce. So this argues for that market, it also does not try to deny the fact that we eat 11 billion livestock. We have 11 billion livestock in this country so we should start thinking about how those animals are raised.

So to ask you one more quickie before we get started go so you know one of the reasons that you know that the the meat that you know you sell at the Heritage costs more than then you know crap crap meat. Not only is the this a scale on which it's done, do you believe that 1520 years from now it will be cheaper? That yeah, not as cheap as not as cheap as the crabmeat but do you think it will be cheaper per pound? Because you'll be able to have like better distribution routes, things like this things that make that kind of thing? No economical? No,

no, I don't think it will be. I think there might be some efficiencies that come up that bring the cost down. But I learned that from Carlo Petrini, he says no to raise 50 pigs they grow slower. That's one. So that means they live longer. That's too so you have to feed them more. And just so you know, a turkey is normally a very discriminating discriminating eater. So what do they do on the corporate farms, they cut off its beak so it can't pick so all it can do is use its beak as a shovel, and they keep the lights on on the indoors and never sees the outdoors. They're all artificially inseminated, so no sex is ever happening on this farm. So they have turned their face in on the elective surgery into discont Figured shovel so that it can shovel their anti backs. attic written this is an animal so sick that they need medicine and their food just to survive their life and they arrived to the slaughterhouse injured. No, it will never be that cheap. That is too cheap that is playing God that is pushing it like the Nazis did. That's a Nazi like thing. And I hate to say that word, but it's true killing killing Hitler. Well, I mean Purdue and stuff like that. And they never say no antibiotics because they can't those animals would die in their little barns there. They got to wait. So you don't

even think it will ever become cheaper. I'm not saying cheap as you don't even think it will be cheaper, cheaper?

Yes. I said some efficiencies would happen. And I hope that, you know, people get into this idea of buying whole lamp. You know, you can't get the best lamp in this country and order it in pieces. You pretty much have to commit to a half lamp cut into pieces, but you commit to the lamp. So you know what I mean? Yes, it's still an uphill battle. Although why's that? I don't think it'll ever be as cheap. I do think it will be a little bit cheaper. And you can save money by say cooking pastas buying whole animals. And by the way, I think corporate things. I mean, McDonald's that stole a six $7 meal. A pasta is a half that price. So I know that one's going out and one's eating home. Yeah, but still, it's not as

were they how much you know d by the good oil. Do you buy the Parmigiano Reggiano price up it up? Pump it up?

No, I mean, I just say for me, so I understand. Now if I was making the argument that food should be more expensive all around so that we don't do this and that that would be a problem. And I would be wrong. But I think when it comes to meat, this country just has to eat a little bit less meat. But the the way to do that is to embrace the fact that we eat a lot of meat, not to try to first question at any sustainable meat conference. Should we eat meat? We do 11 billion livestock Come on. Let's get with the program. I'm one example. But since heritage food started in 2004, I see dozens of butcher shops and other distribution systems The answer is starting to push at the gates and I'm gonna I sense that things will be cheaper and but never never that cheap, cheaper, but never cheap. You will never be cutting off the beaks of Turkeys so that they get fat in the third the time as they are intended in nature. That's one of my things sex sells and other than people forget sex animals that have sex turkeys are only available for eating in November ducks and geese so How come everyone Charles Dickens book was always eating a duck in a goose and Christmas because that's when cycles of the earth Earth orbiting around the sun. That's when nature gives us those animals but we artificially inseminate everybody and that AI artificial insemination is how they're able to control and grow these kind of freaks is because they find chickens so disfigured. They pull his genetic pollen from the flock not to remove him from the flock but to artificially inseminate the next generation. With his genetics.

Maybe that's how I was made.

You were genius. They picked the greatest genius. Yeah, and they bred him with another genius.

So they're gonna kick us off the air in a sec. But I have one caller that's been waiting or hoping. Okay, I'll take the caller. But Pat, Patrick, one of the things that you mentioned we quickly is that each Id like this is a pow, pow, pow, pow book. It's like two page essays.

50 essays do Beige Book which middleweight fight, which

is very much like Patrick himself when you stay around here for because we have a caller, we're gonna take really quickly caller you're on the air.

Thanks to Hey,

Dave. It's Brandon from Chicago. Hey, how you doing? Well. Thanks. I've got a question about Susie and barbecue and cold smoking. Alrighty. So I would like to make some smoke products. And I don't have an actual smoker I do you have a smoker box that burns pellets. And it kicks it out pretty well. Like I'm pretty pleased with it. But I don't really have an environment where I can use that. And also keep the heat below say 215 because I'm using my gas grill as sort of the place where all the smoking happens.

So you have a box that attaches to the grill like like a front leg or whatever they are Brunson whatever that attaches to the side of the grill via via like a port.

Now, it's a little tube. It's made by amazing products, if you heard about them before, but you just it's like a drilled out box basically, that you put the pellets and you just sit under the growth rates and and just let it go. Right. So it does a pretty good job. So my dilemma is that I'm either left to sort of cold smoking at sort of ambient temperatures, or going above 200 degrees and getting you know outside of sort of temperature range where I'd like to go if I'm gonna smoke to the meats. So I was wondering if you were going to do some like suevey smoked pork belly or like a CV pork shoulder. First, would you smoke it before you put it in the bag or afterwards? And then if you were going to do it before, how do you deal with having raw meat sitting around or hours just, you know, kind of, at ambient temperatures, doing cold