Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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I'm Greg Blaze host of cutting the curd you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cook. Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you in reverse pizzeria in Bushwick. On the heritage Radio Network mostly Every Tuesday we miss last Tuesday because I was teaching Oh from 12 to 12 of air 45 ish anyways, corner questions 27184972128 That's 718-497-2128 So styles one calling up today's questions. Why don't you tell him what we did last week?

We did. What you taught a class on carbonation with Chivas at the Nomad Hotel,

which is nice place. Yeah, and stars does what she does best in these situations, which is sit in the background and just shake her head disapprovingly the entire time. She's like, Listen, I've heard this isn't healthy because if you read next to me, you can hear her touch was a scene to do this demo. 8000 Freaking times. And everything new you add is wrong. Right? Is that pretty much it? You feel right?

No is the same anecdotes that you like what? Like just your trials with karma? Like, I have to tell them? No, but I just

on the radio I try not to. But like if you have a specific thing to say that illustrates how not to carbonate right, then what's matter. You got a bug bite right now, like jumped out at Heritage radio network that I'm sitting

on believe you. It is true.

There. Have any of you been to Nogales, Mexico. And it's like it's like we're a warehouse from the Gulf of Mexico blankets right now, like we started to see the goddess is unfortunately no fence, no gauze. But it's the only place in Mexico that I've ever been. And I'm trying to rectify that as soon as possible go to what I would consider real Mexico. It's like what's fake? What's fake us? Like if someone were to come to the US and they're like, this is all they saw. You say? Yeah, you haven't been to us? What would that be? And you were no offense to Newark. Like what have you learned in what if you flew into Newark Airport airport, right? What if you flew into Newark Airport? No offense, Newark. You know, I used to live in Jersey holding on whatever. But what if you landed in Newark Airport, and we're like, Okay, I'm here. He just got the closest hotel to Newark Airport, and that's where he stayed the whole time. Sounds like a fun trip.

Jack told Dave about what email you got. Today,

I got a promotional email from like Orbitz or something and it was like, Hey Jack, pack your bags, you're going to New York.

Hey, here's it. Here's an interesting factoid may or may not be true about packing your bags at sea. That is what we call bad cookie editing bad kind of data sifting to try and give you a trophy about it. All expenses paid on the L train. $2.50 A little bit of a discount if you had the MetroCard. Anyways. So you familiar with their private browsing thing? I'm sure you are stuck because your whole family's paranoid about being tracked? No, I don't. So on your Mac and other things, you can hit a button that basically says that your browser is no longer going to store cookies. And like, you know, nine out of 10 people they use it for the porn so they their porn can't be tracked. Right Jack? You're familiar with this? Right? Yes. Not the porn

porn part, but not necessarily. The incognito window. Yeah.

So I don't know if this is true. I'd like to hear something from any any SEO folks out there. But apparently, if you go to look up an airplane flight to Mazatlan or Acapulco, somebody's talking about if you go look up a flight to there, and you're like man I'm gonna buy right now. And you go back like five days later to look at their private on No, no on your regular computer. Yeah, the prices are higher. It's because they're tracking you and they know you want to go there. So if you log in with private browsers, browsers for money, browse what you want me to browse, then they gives you the old price again. That's crazy. And disappointing that Yeah, that's so used car salesmen. No offense to people who sell used cars. There's many honest ones. But it's like, you know why you shafting me, because since we're everyone's like, I'm going to keep looking at the prices because they think that that's a good thing to do. And they're looking at you looking at the prices and hosing you as a result. So we got a cool auction here to help benefit the heritage Radio Network. This programming is free for you, but not free for us to produce. So we have a bid to win a day at the Modernist Cuisine cooking lab in Bellevue, Washington with Nathan Myhrvold and the modernist cooking crew, one of the most visionary food technology and business leaders of our time. This is a once in a lifetime chance to experiment in the kitchen yourself with Nathan Myhrvold and his team of chefs, chemists, physicists and machinist. Peruse new cooking innovations, ask all of your burning questions and questions about burning and bring home a signed copy of the photography of Modernist Cuisine. Place your bid on this package on charitybuzz.com Now let's get to the last week's questions. Brian Garrick wrote in about shad berries and ice cream Hello, cookie. It's your team. Hope you're staying cool and dry. I am not. I am a big pile of sweat all those turnstiles I made it in. I mean late as usual, but record time for me. I made it You ready for this? Not door to door computer to radio, computer radio and 15 minutes from my house. So you left at 1155 53 Yeah. Like I was like, why don't you do that? Well, I've I feel like I'm melting like the Wicked Witch of the West right now. But I just I just like, I made sure that I was putting just as much power to the upstroke because I got straps on my on my bike, as I did into my downstroke and it's like, I felt like people on the bridge. Were standing still because I was so anxious because of how late I was. But you know, I was I've been cooking all morning. I was cooking all morning and during the radio questions. Wow. Give me Give me a break. Give me a freaking break made a lot of cocktails this morning not to drink, not to drink. I wasn't drinking.

Just completely waste. I

know what I made some of the cocktails from the book actually for this thing I have to do tonight. And did you ever have the vermouth in the freezer cocktails the vermouth blender cocktails. So I'll give you the basic outline you have to buy my book for the exact recipe Oh, no. So you take I've it's called ebony and ivory. And I got I got a Dolan blog from us which is you know, the semi sweet white Dolan and I mixed that one with a little bit of aka proof. Water and limes, use pinch of salt, right? And you get the alcohol level right so that when you put it as just like the Italian Stallion, or when you put it in a Ziploc bag and throw it in the freezer, it turns into like a slushy drink in your freezer without you having to do anything. And then the other one that's that would be the ivory and the ebony is Capano a little bit of vodka and water a pinch of salt. And yet today you serve them. No, no, you're sitting side by side in perfect harmony. Yeah, Paul and

what's his name?

What do you what's his name? Stevie freaking wonder. I'm not going to say I'm not gonna get into it. Stevie Wonder what are the jack we're in the greatest modern musicians like that ever. Right?

I mean, maybe yeah. Oh, yeah.

I mean, you know what people get all pissed because you know, kind of like the Jungle Fever and plus era of his life. But if anyone that I've ever met had come up with any one album when he was in his prime any one of those songs like Boogie On reggae woman if you come up it sounds like you were one hit wonder. Yeah, like Yeah, but it was it was Boogie On reggae woman, you'd be like, All right. You know what I mean? because that's that's that's just so awesome. Anyway, Brian Garrick shad berries. Oh yeah. Gotta go on.

Do we want to take a caller first before jumping in? Sure, sure. Okay. callers on the line? Caller you're on the air.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. This is Garrett in San Diego.

Oh, nice. What's up?

I was just, I was thinking the other day, I am a fan of cottage cheese. I like cottage cheese. And I also like goat cheese. And I looked to see if they make a goat cottage cheese, and I couldn't find anything. Have you ever heard of this? Or is it even possible? And what are the differences between I guess goat milk and whatever they use in cottage cheese, I guess cow, maybe sheep's milk.

I you know, I like I eat a lot of cheese. But I'm not really an expert on the manufacture of cheese. You know, my guess is that you could probably do a mixed milk one. Because there's a lot of mixed milk cheeses that have curves that work like curves. It works somewhat like cow's milk. But I mean, just my experience with fresh goat cheese is that it's got a very different kind of paste. And that you have to age it for a long time. But I could be totally wrong. You know what I mean? But I would guess that if you fortified it with cow milk, you could get into work. This is something that you know what we should what we should do, honestly, Jackie, listen to this. We should get Kim, can you post a question into cutting the curd? Absolutely. And then we'll we'll we'll get their response. And then we'll read it back on the on the air next week. That'd be awesome. You want to do that? Yep. You're right with that?

Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. I'd really appreciate it. I mean, you're right. The only fresh goat cheese that I know of has a much more chalky texture. Not really caught up. But

so what I mean, like if you had, like all the delicious mixed milk cheeses from Italy? Yeah, yeah. So those mixed milk cheeses can have like textures that are in between any of those, you know, and I've had very aged goat cheeses that have only goat that have a fairly solid texture. But I've never had a fresh goat cheese that has a cottage cheesy, like texture. And so I don't know whether it's possible. But what we'll do is I'll do a little bit of research. While Jack is gonna get a response this week, he's going to email it to me. And then once I get that I'll do a little separate research on the other technical literature that I steal access to. And then we'll reconvene next week with the answer. Sounds good.

Yeah, heard on that'd be great. And if you have a quick second, I have one more non food related question.

Oh, what do you got? What kind of bike do you read? Okay, so I used I write, here's the thing. In New York City, you know, we have to have those giant kryptonite chain locks or your bike gets stolen? Yeah. So the lock weighs roughly what my bike would weigh, right? Plus, you have to carry the keys. And then you have to sit there, you have to string the chain through all of that stuff. So I made a decision a long time ago, that I was not going to ever lock my bike ever. And so so the answer, therefore, is that you need to get a folding bike. So I bought a folding bike called a down tube, which is really cheap, because I'm a cheap bastard, does it right or wrong. So cheap, and cheap. So I bought this down to but it got fairly good ratings. And I proceeded because I would throw it in my closet when I got home to completely destroy the derailleur every day. So I was throwing my chain, like, you know, three times a day and I got so irritated that you know, I was like crap on this. I'm ripping all of the gears out and I'm gonna make it into a single speed. But then I was like, You know what the hell with it because it's gonna be crazy. Anyway, I'm just gonna go full stupid and I made it fixed fixed gear folder on 20s It's right and 20 inch wheels, which by the way, people don't look into the physics of it in a New York City ride if you're doing a lot of stop and starts the 20s are as fast or faster than unless you're gonna buy really high end full size jobs anywho so I was like I'll turn into a fix because why not because I can I can do it and then I got kind of addicted to the fixing but I leave the brakes on cuz I'm not one of those guys. Right the brakes. Good. Yeah. And and then now the problem with the down tube is is that they you know the steering is so high up on a cantilever that because you're fixed you start really really really hard. And so I snapped on going down to Williamsburg I snapped the steering off and then had to negotiate going down the Williamsburg Bridge with it with a stet snapped column there and then I saw I was like, I got another one of that because it was under warranty snapped it again. So I was like crap on this and now I ride a xootr Swift which has a guaranteed for life frame. I used to ride really thin 12 is on the on the road regular light. They're custom wheels, but they're not real. They're like regular Velo rims and with Swaby Swabia. Big apples just because I used to ride thin and I was a little bit faster. But you know, I've seen too many people wipe out on those thin guys if any, if any crap gets on the row that I was like the hell with especially with the with the 20s it's really easy to wipe out so crap when I got wider. Thanks. But it's still and I have those have that weird but friendly seat. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so that's what I it's still it's modified. It's modified beyond being fit, whatever. But yeah, that's what I read.

Cool. Thanks very much. I figured you'd have a pretty interesting bike.

Yeah, it's weird. I mean, if the bike the bike snob would have a field day with my bike, I'm sure but if any of you guys read the bikes, not but anyway. Alright, thanks again for taking my call. Thanks. Alright, so back to Brian and shad berries and ice cream. Okay. I noticed that you tweeted a recipe for a drink special that contains shad berries. It's fruit picking time around here and I've never had one where can I find them and how can identify them. Also, there are tons of mulberries around New York, they're ripe for picking. It's a little The shadows are going down next year, though. They're also I think that the same as June berries, but I'm not sure if I think people might call service berry something else look, their honor. I can recognize it when I see it. But it's hard to describe. Once you identify it, you're going to identify it forever. So they're purple, there go red to dark purple when they're ripe berries. They're on a tree that bears alternate leaves, of course, nine tenths of trees other than you know, maples, ashes and a couple others. Dog woods are alternate. So that's not much of a help. If the finally serrated kind of elliptical, he's also not very much of a help. If you look at the berries, they look a little bit like a blueberry. And they have that. I guess it's a calyx thing coming off of it. But if you just look up in a couple of books, you can see the variants of it. And once you see it, you like once you see it once you'd like you get it and that's it. And there's a patch of them on Eldridge street near the short like housing buildings they're in in the Lower East Side if you want to see him but the barriers are all gone on those anyway. And they have an astringent kind of acidic taste that I like because if you mash them, and let them sit on the skins a while before you spin them off, they pull up a little bit more tan and then like a blueberry a little bit more musky, but not probably as tannic as casies Like you've had before. So anyway, so moberries Any favorite spot to get some mulberries any good techniques for picking them? They're so fragile. Yeah, yeah. A technique is to get someone else to pick them for you or wear gloves. But don't because that looks dumb. If you're walking around the city picking berries with gloves. What do you think about if you see if you see a dude picking berries with gloves, this feet? What do you say? Let us know. I mean, I don't know. Be like what the hell is that guy doing? Right? Yeah, I don't know. skipped it. What does stay the hell out of you? Also, I spotted a few peach trees and sour cherry trees. I would I can't have the secretaries. I'm eager to pick them too. What's the best way? I don't have a fruit picker? Anyway to make when it works. That's interesting question probably for things like peaches. You could get like, like they make fruit picking basket things and but then you had to fix it to the end of an extendable pole. That I wouldn't mind looking like a lunatic on a Oh, what are you doing out there? Oh, I'm picking peaches. What's wrong with you? The mulberries a good place to pick them that's pleasant to go to is in the park that's off of 150/8 Street and Riverside Drive. You go over to the river on the west side and you walk up and there's a bunch of they have a boatload of speakers. They have a boatload of of juneberry shad berries there, but then they also have a bunch of mulberry trees up in that area. And there's a bunch just scattered around the city. There's some in the parks that are up Allen street, or that Christy and I'm talking about it's Christie, it's Christy Forsythe, right. And we found a good one near what restaurant we always used to go to where we found where we used to eat with Maria, there was a really nice one. Oh, yeah, I can't remember. Anyway, my recommendation, like I said before, is to pick and I'm too stupid to do this. But you got to have a long view on this. So pick a couple of berries this year, and then mark that tree like take a picture and geotag it or whatever. Like, oh, this is the good one. And then you can go back and get it the next year because I mentioned this last week when I started talking about your question that mulberry trees are extremely variable in fruit quality segments. That's what that's that's what I was saying. Ice Cream question. Jenny Bauer from Jenny's splendid ice creams uses in milk filtration technique. And then this is a paraphrasing of it. Start with raw grass fed grass pasture milk from the cows right at the dairy milk comes in and we separated into a center in a centrifuge into heavy cream and skim milk. As per usual, the cream goes into a tank. When I go to the dairy that's the first place I go. I take a little insipid foamy, like slightly whipped cream okay. The skim milk then goes through a natural filtration system, which is this is quoting I think Jenny Bauer in food and wine, food and wine did an article called Lessons from Jenny Britton Bauer and this is a quote from that. And this is really cool we're all technique makes modern the filtration system runs the milk across a membrane multiple times to remove about 60% of the water. Water is not good an ice cream because it makes it ice run Moving water also concentrates the proteins to get more body and texture. We're working with two proteins, the casein and whey proteins which gives great smoothness. So then we take the concentrated skim milk containing proteins and lactose and mix it back with the cream to give us a base of about 15% butterfat for ice cream is still raw and not being cooked. So then we add sugar and batch pasteurized at 175 degrees, ultra pasteurized milk, they're here to 300 plus and they shoot into a tiny pipe which strips a lot of the flavor out. And anyway, batch pasteurization gives them tokenized cooked custody flavor and bonds the water to the proteins, butterfat and sugar I don't know if I believe that. I don't know exactly what she means by it. Then we shoot it through homogenizer while still hot, so the butterfat has melted and looser, we homogenized it to make the butter fat molecules I think she means like, you know, the micelle is the same size as all the other ones. And if we didn't all those big butterfat molecules would fight each other and make butter. The homogenizer shoots it through. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, can you smack it yackety yak yak meat. And then she she spends it and then they pack it all by hand 1000s A week. And she says there are machines for packing, but they require a much thinner ice cream. So it never freezes up the same way that ours do. Okay, so now back to the question part of it. This is not the code anymore. She recommends that at home we should boil the milk for ice cream bass for four minutes. The boiling is key. It evaporates excess water like our nanofiltration system, like pasteurization. It bonds sugar and fat to the water and teenagers, the whey proteins to make them smooth. Then you add cream cheese to mimic the thickening of homogenization to bulk up the body. And then they food and wine did an article where they tested it. Isn't it just easier to add? And then your question is Isn't it easier to add powdered milk to the base? What's in cream cheese other than stabilizers to powder milk, doesn't it? Well, the other than stabilizers. There's a boat ton of stabilizers in cream cheese. That's why it's so smooth. If you've ever had non stabilized cream cheese, it's really kind of grainy which I actually liked. The best cream cheese that I've ever purchased is bought at Russ and daughters and it's completely non stabilized cream cheese so it only lasts a couple of days. And it's kind of grainy but it has such an amazing tissue and no offense to Philly. In fact Booker says you appreciate this Booker hates the high quality cream cheese and he's like I'd prefer Philadelphia brand cream cheese and then so he makes me buy the most expensive salmons like in the world fundamentally as Russ and daughters and wants the you know the the mass market cream cheese that's a nice way of saying it right mass market hey look a Philly anyways. Isn't it easier to add powdered milk to the base? Do you have any thoughts on the science behind what's going on here? Well, I mean, you know, what I typically do is add just add more cream to the milk to get the butterfat content up. And then yes, I add powdered milk to the base. A lot of powdered milk doesn't taste very good. So I can see boiling down your milk to remove some of the water and then but you're still adding less cream, but I would spend more time worrying about the quality of the cream that you use. nine tenths of the cream that you buy in the supermarket is ultra pasteurized because they had sitting around for a long time and they want it to last forever so like if you're sourcing like a super nice cream that hasn't been completely lacked out of whack by the you know by the by the imagination but boiling it I mean I think it's a little interesting that she's into the raw thing and other thing and a low temperature pasteurizing but then you're boiling out your your your milk to get what Lisa skin portion of it to get me in other words, and I don't know about this i But the thing is, I'm sure they tested it sure it's delicious. And the cream cheese is going to add some acidity to which I don't know that you necessarily want like but when I'm doing it, I would add mint remember also she's doing Philly style, so she's not adding any eggs to it. I almost always make a style when I make Philly style. I add stabilizers to it. Like I used to use flavor free guar you could also use locust bean gum gel and makes a super duper awesome stabilizer because like hyper creamy and in small amounts like a fluid gel is ridiculous. And then you can also let it on fire. Don't add guar and Joanne because then it gets stretchy like slept on Derma so anyway, I added stabilizers I just upped my cream component and if I want to bulk out the proteins more I add powder but it is true that some powders don't taste good. Right? That is a good answer. I've never had her ice cream but all of the little doodads in the Yelp for I think she's Ohio or some other little doodads are like awesome, best. Awesome, best. We've got another caller. Caller you're on the air.

Hello, Dave. So my name is Anthony. I'm from DC. I've been working on a fish sausage for the fish shop that worked for we're looking to make a basically a sausage with the texture and the snap of a hotdog. But emulsified. Our first attempt was just a traditional mousseline, it was too soft. So we did a couple batches and we're using a mix of like 550 50% white fish and then the rest is scallop and shrimp. Yep, puree and food processor. I've tried egg whites, gelatin, milk powder and tapioca starch, like different variations of there's tapioca starch. And I'm assuming for terrorists arch anything else would be. It's very pasty and start to Thursday. Now it's almost inevitable. And I wanted to get your thoughts on what you might use to give it a little bit more of that. firmness that kind of bite to it.

Alright, cool. You're packing him into lamb casings.

Right now we've just been packing them. That's the plan, it's gonna be lamb spacings but right now we've just been wrapping them in plastic and poaching them off. To try it out.

You're obviously gonna get more snapping the land casing but you're not getting the texture you want out of it. You want more of the texture of traditional emulsified sausage? And you know most seafood sausages have that very light kind of almost dumpling like texture to them. Stars by the way, I don't know if I mentioned this on air or whether this came up on air did it she hates seafood sausage, can you believe it? Can you believe this lady anyways. So very simple thing for you. Now here's the deal, you're going to be able to get anything in between where you are right now. And Cerini just by using meat glue. I mean, I wouldn't go all the way to Surrey me if I was you. But you know, you're going to be able to get anything in between now, meat is going to bind the proteins together. And I have myself made like bound sausages. I think I've done it with with seafood, but I've done definitely done them before where they're like ping pong balls, so you can definitely go over. So you're never ever going to want to go over 1% of meat glue, don't don't even start near that high. And also, the how much the meat glue is going to make it into a ping pong ball is going to be dependent on how much salt is present. And then how much of you know how much food processing or grinding you get after you put the meat glue in. And remember, you have to pump the sausages out within after you add the meat glue within about five to 10 minutes because it's going to start setting up. So I would start with somewhere like a quarter percent. And I would wait I would take it to taste to get just where you want. And then I would at the last minute blitzing one quarter of 1% of Aktiva rm and then which you can get at modernist pantry.com. And then I would blend that in, and then pipe it right away, or just roll it in plastic for your tests. And then, you know, if you want to do it, you can you can poach them off at 55 Celsius, to do a quick set on them so that you don't have to wait forever in a day. And then you can do your regular cook off wherever you were, you know, whatever you want. Or you can let it sit in the fridge for four hours to overnight to set up and then you should be able to get into it will remember though, if you're going to hold these things overnight 70 to 80% of the texture will develop over that four hour period, but then it's going to get a little springier overnight as it continues to bond if it's sitting in your fridge without getting touched.

So our our game plan is to pre poach them. So we're using we only sell, you know, fish that's been delayed for a couple of days, maybe so we're using the strap and the phrase that we haven't sold. And they're still perfectly edible, but don't look at as fresh as possible. So we're pre poaching three things. So without you know, without worrying about the customer taking them out the next day and you know, this turns after a day or two rather than for those

fears. Once you once you poach it, the the enzymes gonna get deactivated, it's not going to get any stiffer. So if you're gonna, if you know you're going to poach them off, then I recommend I recommend like, like doing a, an initial poach off. Like if you're gonna do lamb casing size and initial poach off at like 55 Celsius for like, for like 10 minutes. And, you know, 10 to 15 minutes, that should set it and then you can put them in whatever temperature you want to cook them to cook them, you know, whatever you're going to do to do the bacteria kill step and then take them out, you're ready to rock and roll. And then the good thing about that is you can run through a couple of cycles with the meat glue to figure out how much you want to add

that to and I could probably also time that so that I get just the right amount of set on the meat glue to texture that we want correct

to wait to say that last part of that sentence again, the right amount of

time just timeout when we poach them or when we do that 55 Celsius water bath to the tester that we want. So whether it's like two hours or three or four hours we can almost find two units extra Correct?

Yeah, yes, but the food did five sets it like, like the enzyme is still working, so you don't have to wait even like, you can wait like 15 minutes, or 10 and set it at a 55 degree bath. That's how widely used to make a shrimp noodles, or I guess still does make it from noodles. I mean, you could go a little lower like 5050 to 53. If you're going to cook it right away, you know, you could even do 50 And then I'll set it right away. But I usually do 55 Because it's a nice safe number. You know, you're not growing any bacteria in the bath itself. So I usually do 55 But then you don't you don't have to wait at all. So what you then do you make them you, you stuffed them, you poach them off, and then you know you're good. And then I would just face the amount of meat glue based on that.

Gotcha. And I was one other thought I had on it was that the protein, the protein percentage and such as a lot lower than meat words, adding a protein powder, like sort of protein isolate, would that help maybe give a firmer texture as well? Or is that just going to be a waste of time.

With the meat glue, I wouldn't it already has casein in it, which is helper. And if you if you have customers that don't want the casein, you can get one without casein. And fish. Remember how soluble like fish think it has sticky fish gets weird because like a lot of the proteins are actually soluble. So once you add meat glue to it, sucker like, that's what, like the fact that the protein comes out is why we do a Brian step before you're going to do low temp. Otherwise, you get that white albumin bloom on the outside, it looks nasty. So I don't think you're gonna have a problem with I don't think you're gonna have a problem with the, with the meat glue on its own, rather than having to add like a separate thing, because it's just another thing and then, you know, the meat glue is in such small percentage and that you I don't even know I mean, technically, I don't know what you're labeling, but I don't know. I think it's better than having to add like another another thing you know.

Exactly. And I should add on meat glue and powder for shadowmaker posts were added to that.

I would add it to the mix in powder form unless you're having trouble. Like unless it's such a big batch that you're worried it's not going to get in in which case, but remember when you're doing that you're adding water so as long as you're okay with that you could do it that way but also every just the key thing everything quick. Yes. Okay. All righty. Thank you. Let us know how it works. No problem. All right,

super quick break.

All right, come right back.

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Nice we back. Sam wrote in about I wonder whether it's the same Sam. Interesting. I have another quick question for Dave the old school poli science blue and white circulator has two pumps speeds slow and fast. Does heating the water up in the fast pump speed helped the circulator heat up faster, Sam? No, here's the deal. The old circulators had a low and a high pumps B for this reason, and this reason only a lot of laboratory processes take place very close to ambient temperature. And on the high pump speed, you add a lot of friction to the system. And so you can heat the water. Just because the pump speed is higher. It's according to Phillip pressing. This is not I don't want to someone calling me back and saying it's not enough. Listen, I don't want to hear about it. I'm like this is like from the mouth of the designer of the piece of equipment. And so the low pump speed is there just so that you're not dumping a lot of extra energy in in case you're doing ambient or sub ambient cooling, like with an ice bath or something like this, right. So in a cooking in a cooking scenario, you should always use high. Always unless you have something it's extremely fragile. That's getting knocked around. Like for instance, let's say you put eggs in a circulator. And you didn't take the care to make sure that they're not rattling around. Like I'm not gonna name names, but I saw a for like a three Michelin star chef have in a demo. I think I told him before, but the eggs is rattling around the frickin circulator Bin and I was like, Oh my God, why do you hate eggs so much? Why are you doing a demo if you hate eggs? So in that case, maybe you can put it on low but always keep it on high. Always keep it on high. And I don't know because I don't know which sand you are. But there's another sand that wrote in saying on food storage. Can you ask Dave this question? Turn on the radio show do you know any book or resource dedicated to optimal food storage for example, how best to store celery? Thanks, Sam. I don't except for Harold. I didn't have a chance to go peruse my copy but Harold McGee's third while fourth if you count the if you count the second edition of on food and cooking as a different book, which I think he should, like so many chapters are rewritten. So we'll call it his fourth book, the keys to good cooking in that he has a lot of tips for optimum storage of things. So and that's like one of the because that book see like what a lot of people don't get about that book is meant to be like go to kitchen reference on stuff like storage, so I need to go reread it, but I think that's got a lot of stuff like that. And I would welcome anyone tweeting on in books they have on that on that subject. You know, because mostly I read kind of technical crap on this on this sort of thing. And Eric, Michael Morris from Little Rock wrote in this question on sugar free gelato. And what I'm gonna have to do is put this to next week because I need some more information from you, Eric. Sorry if this has been addressed before I love the show, but haven't listened to them all like if you have problems I am the GM of a wood oven southern Italian style pizza and salad place in Little Rock Arkansas. We make our own gelato fresh daily. I was curious about making a sugar free gelato slash Sorbetto. What do you think that word says? Like that? Would you like anything Italian? Or Swiss? How it like except for the people? You don't like? I thought you'd love the people. No, I don't like when people were in Switzerland and Italy. You don't like Northern Italians or southern

Italians.

You're here first?

What the hell? She likes the language likes the culture. Food Food,

landscape

landscape, but the people that wipe them off she's just like, people I just want you to like I work with a ball of hate. just a straight up fall of hate. I want to do Jack can you do like a ball of confusion cover like somehow referencing like ball of ball of hatred for stops? Yeah. I was curious about making sugar free gelato slash Sorbetto. The owner was trying to explain inverted sugars and crap to me that is over my head. Any advice on making out standard sugar free gelato? Thanks, Eric. Michael Morris. Okay, here's, here's the questions I have for you, Eric. So the question straight up off the bat is Why do you want it to be sugar free? In other words, are you trying to make it savory? Or is it for diabetic application? Or is it just that you want to have no added sugar but you're okay with the sugar in fruits, right? Because sugar is a you know, the sugar is there as a as a texture agent, right? So you can and you know, invert sugar, so sugar, sucrose is a disaccharide it's like joined together and it tends to crystallize and other things and invert sugar tends to make things it has a certain amount of freezing point depression to it, right? And if you were to break that same molecule sucrose into its two constituent parts, glucose and fructose, all of a sudden it depresses the freezing point even more, so adding a certain amount like decreases the freezing point, more etc, etc. But that's not that. That's not the point here. The point is, is that why do you want to do what you're doing? If you want it to taste the same as an ice cream or gelato? Unless you're going to add artificial sweeteners to it. Don't add stevia I hate stevia stars combined with you hate stevia. Jack You hate stevia, obviously, yeah, I hate stevia. I have no I have no problem with people who like it, except for what that means is that you like something that tastes bad. It means it's possible that some people can't taste that awful, poisonous, metallic bitter taste at the end of stevia. It's possible, but it's just wretched anyways. So the question is, do you want to add an artificial sweetener, in which case you need to bulk it up with a sweetener. That is, if you're looking for calories, it's non caloric, and has the same sort of freezing point depression and texturizing properties. In which case, you'd have to look at what I think the best kind of the other thing is, when you move to high bulk sugars like that, like isomalt, then you increase the propensity of the ice cream because you're not digesting and stuff, anything you don't digest increases the potential of what you're working on, which is why everyone worries about isomalt even though you really don't need that much why small you know, talking about that, hey, if you're just looking to use like natural fruit juice, then get yourself a refractometer and boil your you know, boil your fruit juice down until it's basically sugar and then add it back to it and measure the measure, you know, measure the refractometer what your sugar level is. Hey, other ones anyway. Write me back and tell me like exactly what you want this sucker to taste like versus what your tastes like now and I can get you a better answer as to as to what you're doing but the sugar is doing three things. It's providing a taste, which you may or may not Want it's depressing the freezing point which you definitely want otherwise it's hard like a rock and even aside from that as texturizing properties to its three things and I'm sure many many others