Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's episode of Cooking issues is brought to you by Wilma Jean delicious fried chicken and other Southern Comfort food classics great burgers too, located at 345 Smith Street in Brooklyn, Wilma Gene 345 for more information.

Hi this is Celia Kutcher, host of animal instinct and you are listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn. If you liked this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Joined with usual Natasha hammer Lopez fresh off another trip to the Harvard

Yeah, it was great

ya know, I like it a lot. I like also joined well first in engineering Who do we got? You got Jack as usual Ainsley crew back here today who do you got over there?

We've got G Paul who's here training to engineer white burns who's been with us for the past few weeks right yeah, I'm familiar with for the first time provided you with a list of unanswered questions. Isn't that groundbreaking sweet

but they Okay listen, I don't want anyone to get ticked off here but we have in house Daniel grits are formerly of the fantastic magazine food and wine now at serious eats what do you have a title over there? Or just like you know,

they're calling me culinary director.

Wow, that's fucking ahead. That's a that's a high title. I didn't drop I didn't actually drop an F bomb. Just careful. I said for free. was when I got to French fantastic that's it's it's a high title there. Yeah, so you're running that thing? What does that mean?

No, I'm not running things I work with you know J Kenji Lopez.

He has His title is Chief Creative Officer right he was

he when I came on board I think they finally decided to make things a little bit more official so he's now managing culinary director. So he and I

meet we usually managing means they handle the ad side in magazine.

No, like you can have like a managing editor

doesn't manage the editor handily, like the integration of ad side and to edit.

Well, yeah, okay. And print magazines. It's true. The managing editor does often straddle those lines a little bit. Here, it just means that

there's making up titles aren't you making

he you know, he's he manages the, the culinary portion of the, or the recipe portion, the cooking portion of the website where

they easily move into, like Botswana or something crazy. Whereas

if, if if San Francisco is one of you,

I've never been to Botswana, so I can't say I had been to San Francisco. Yeah, no,

he moved. He moved out to the West Coast. Yeah. Yeah.

I like San Francisco. San Francisco is a good town. Right. And it's a good place to visit the redwoods, which are some of my favorite places in the world. That's true. Yeah. And like basically all of us here in Nevada is crazy towns full of like crazy craziness and like wildfires and stuff. Really cool. I like that stuff. But that's not why we brought you here. Let me first of all, why don't we tackle have to do yeah, we'll tackle tomatoes like midway through you want to get I don't know. You

have to say what slow food means. Oh, yeah.

There's a cool announcement here. So at Heritage radio, and Roberta's on Friday, we're having Alice Waters and Carlo Petrini here to celebrate 25 years of Slow Food.

It's pretty cool, right? Yeah, twice. It's a long time. You know, right. Yeah.

I mean, what do you think slow foods meant for food over 25 years?

And look, what year was it? 25 years ago? Wow, what's that? She's at? 96? No, no, we're decade 8990 9019 89. Right. 89 euro, the Euro graduating 89. Okay, so let's all look back to what food was like in 1989. I mean, let's look at like where the high end were, like people who cared about ingredients and stuff were where we were as a culture in 1989. versus where we are now. And I think what's, what's interesting about it is is you know, even in the early 90s, like the concept of kind of caring about where food came from was much more advanced in Italy, where slow Foods was born. Much, much, much more, I mean, that it was here in the US at that time. But, you know, you look at the influence of groups like slow foods, America, let's give a shout out to Patrick who was you know, Martin is one of the founders of that, you know, and I think it's, it's done a lot, it's hard to say, you know, they were there kind of at the beginning. So, I think, you know, big player, what do you think, Daniel? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there there's so many people who can be given credit for so much that's happened in the food world in the past 25 or 30 years from Alice Waters who will be here. But the slow food movement I think, if you look at if you look at the state of the the food world today and the things that people talk about, and even the the trends that some people now get annoyed with, in terms of them being marketing lines, you give me some annoying, oh, you know, everything's farm to table and then people say, Okay, well, what everything's farm to table because every everything comes from, you know, that kind of,

you know, like, you know, we extended that right, it's farm to toilet now.

That's gonna be the new Back Page. The National glossy Yeah,

you know, remember, that's mine. Like other people, I've given it to other people, but foreign to toilet. That's, that's all I mean. And, you know, that actually fits in with like, the great, you know, like American, like American thinking about diet and like, the problems with American diet and food, like one of the early people who was interested in that was the reverie Sylvester Graham, like, you know, he would not have actually enjoyed graham crackers but was very interested in stopping us from masturbating and having excess sex and he thought he could do this by reducing our meat consumption to almost nil and having us eat only kind of whole you know, whole grain breads like cooked without like external Lemmings, kind of like really what we would consider like poorly made products. And so like, you know, he thought that this would like D inflame our passions, get rid of like the national problem at the time, which was dyspepsia so he, you know, his his conception This is Jacksonian America now is that dyspepsia is one of the great problems and leads to things like adultery, masturbation, things like this things that he sees as actually kind of morally reprehensible. Remember that dieting in general and, and detoxing and, and I've written about this, although I've never published it. It's all tied in with body hate. And moralism about kind of what we what we do and what we eat and hatred of the body and a physical self. That I'm talking to you detox people and and so you know that he was very much interested in pooping. You know what I mean? And so like, like, the early times, it was farm to toilet so I think over the past 25 years with this farm to table stuff, we've really been ignoring the toilet part.

It's, yeah, it is definitely the one part of the process it's generally ignored in the food

covers only it's only it's not if you talk to someone they go to a restaurant. How was it? It was good. What in the morning? Oh, you know what I mean? So many people actually treat their farm to toilet movement. I

think the toilet thing started in Italy till like they talk about pooping and how it feels and what the food like that's it's part of everyday conversation.

I agree with that. But you also don't hang out with Germans do do do Italians have the shelf in a toilet? Oh, the toilet shelf, the toilet shelf? It's for inspection. Is that what it's for? Oh yeah. I have to avoid backsplash No, there's a famous book put out by a guy named Allen Dulles Dundas who's now dead, who did a study of kind Have fecal expressions and and fascination with toiletries in, in German. In German folklore and in in culture. It's fascinating book and it's called Life is like a chicken coop ladder. Which you know comes from an old German expression that I won't get into here. But

yeah, it's good money inspect it once it's on the show what that you

know you've ever had like that style of toilet you're like who designed this freaking thing? It's it's like a skid machine. It's like a skid Master 5000 Who designed this thing? And it's because some people like to inspect the business after it's done. It's you she was terrible idea. Americans. We want the stuff to go away. There's actually another famous book. What's it called? Oh my goodness, it came out of I think out of Cornell. I forget the author's name. Rem Koolhaas, the famous architect along with the Graduate School of Design recently participated in the architectural BINALI for the end, one of the things they did is they had a bunch of small books each on a room of the house. And the one that my wife bought me of course, was the bathroom because I have an intense fear of public restroom. I detest them. I especially hate Listen, anyone out there who owns a restaurant, or any sort of public place, put a trash can near the door and make sure there are towels there, not just those hand dryers because I'm going to use a towel to open the doorknob in your door and I wish to throw that towel in a trash can. Because I have a mental problem that I can't touch the doorknob in a public restroom. I'll be locked in that restroom until somebody else comes in. If there's not a source of paper towels nearby, or if I don't happen to have a receipt in my pocket. Probably too much information. Yeah, you can't like get a pin in situation. There's two situations I just don't like it. Put a towels and in a trash can by the door you with me, Daniel, and I'm

with you. I think that they need to facilitate that for anyone who wants to use a paper towel to open the door. Yeah, that's a common common thing,

especially because I'm about to go cook your food. You know what I mean? I'm about to go. Wouldn't you prefer that? I didn't touch that doorknob. Right? Wouldn't you prefer that? Yeah, you would. Now the so anyway, Rem Koolhaas did this thing. And you know, along with some other people. And you know, their point is that Americans they're focusing on but Westerners in general, like we do everything well, back afterwards. So we poop into water and wipe with dry things instead of pooping into a dry hole and wiping with wetness. And there's a fantastic book from the 70s that was redone I think, or maybe it's late 60s and read down in the 70s called you know, the bathroom. And it's a complete ergonomic study of like how different cultures like with angles, diagrams, pictures,

one of our good friends. All of our good friends in the food industry is using the squatty potty and loves it. You know that really? Yeah. Like the kind

of heading in Japan?

Well, better for your better for your muscles put you to squat position, even when you're on a western toilet, right? First of all, how, first of all, who is it?

I can't. And his girlfriend made him throw it out because she was embarrassed by it.

Why would who cares? Wasn't it like hard plumbed into there? No, no, it's just like it's like a stool

on either side of your thingamajig and your legs are like, hey, look, it's a well known fact anyone who's been in my family, my family's house that I'm a believer in the wet on wet, full waste of water because I have the Japanese toilet seats, which are I think the highest those are the dream. They're the apogee of toilet technology. I don't know why we've allowed ourselves to fall behind. I've discussed this on the show many times. I wish I knew who was using a squat toilet. That's interesting information and how do we get to Oh, find the toilet. Okay. So

the contribution of Carlo Petrini and Alice Waters.

And Daniel Welcome to the tangential Radio Hour where we just go off on tangents for no apparent reason.

I just want to point out that I think that's the most Anastasia has ever chimed in. Willingly,

willingly. She loves some

poop towel of some food.

Yeah, like because you're why she Okay, mustache is in the food business. Right? So she actually, I'm gonna give a little secret you're not gonna be mad about you're not gonna you're not gonna be mad about this. I'm not like, this is nothing you wouldn't be willing to say on air. What do you not like when you go out after work?

Oh, going out with food people who want to talk about food? Yeah,

yeah. So you know, it's now she gets to exercise the other subject poop. She doesn't care about religion or politics. So you got your proof and you got your reading. Right? And then there's, you know, other less polite things, but whatever. Okay, so here's what I figure like I think we should get now the reason we have Daniel here today is because as we've said, many I've said many times, is that tomatoes refrigeration, with the addition of I think like grape tomatoes and whatnot, which I don't really care about because I don't think it really degrades the taste of the seed section so much but and there's very little pulp and one of those grape tomatoes. And so like I've always stored those in the fridge because why the hell not. But I've always said storing tomatoes in the fridge, enemy of quality. And Daniel came out with a series of the articles on on Syria seeds, basically telling me not me personally, but people like me, too. shot it. And but it's more nuanced than that. So we're gonna get into the great tomato Smackdown we got to get some reverb on that next time, we come back out of the we come back out and retry it again, the great tomato Smackdown. Yeah, Tuesday anyway, maybe we'll do that after the first break, you know what I'm saying? And so I feel that like, you know, I read all your posts on it. So we'll get into a little bit now. And this is gonna give you time during the 32nd commercial break to read all 6000 words or whatever it is of tomato technology that you have, what is it like 5000 words? I don't even know you can look up and look at an image to see if this came out like a waterfall. I know. Yeah. People kept asking for more Niagara Falls? Well, yeah. Because it's telling me I was wrong. Yeah, well, look, look, listen, there's two things. I'll just say this as a spoiler is that I, after reading it, I, you know, like, some of the stuff is very hard to dispute. And I think people that could just call people out is wrong. You need to learn this, this is the greatest thing you can learn in life, I think is the best thing in the world that you can ever do, is to be proven wrong, learn from it and grow. You know, I mean, it's like, I've learned the best things when I was wrong. You know, especially because I've tried, you tried to be right, you try to do as right as you can. And then when you're proven wrong, it means that you've grown, so that's a win. But I think there's room for both of us at this tomato table, because you're your people. Another thing I hate about people is they read something like you wrote a lot of words. Yeah. And they come back with one with one overarching statement that encapsulates everything. That's not the case. That's not I mean, like, for instance, we have talked about what types of tomatoes, how long, what you're doing, what your house is, like, blah, bluh, bluh, bluh, bluh, blah,

is that I mean, that's really the thing is, there's so many variables. And really what I mean, I started where you were, I was a don't put the tomatoes in the refrigerator guy, because

you're not an enemy of quality.

I like quality. Yeah, I like good tomatoes. And that's what I'd always been taught. And it seemed that that made sense to me. And it sort of fit with my anecdotal experience. But I've never tested it. So, you know, we decided, well, let's put it to the test. Let's see what actually happened. So all summer long I was, I was buying tomatoes of different types and different quality levels and putting half in the fridge and half on the counter. And just keeping track of and then tasting them a blind and keeping track of what the results were in. It started to emerge that this thing wasn't really holding up in my tests, as much as the rule to never refrigerate tomatoes suggested it should have. And I couldn't ignore that. So yeah, so then I wrote, wrote about it. And I think there are a fair number of people simply didn't want to let go of the rule or consider the possibility that the rule may not hold as much as they think it does, right? People

wake up, learn and pay attention to what people are doing, especially if they're being rigorous about it. So I've had, like, so many people, tweet at me about your articles, and I've had people write in about it. And so by the way, we're going to get into it in depth after the after the first break, but call in your questions for Daniel regarding tomatoes, or anything else. 27184972128. That's 718-497-2128 to talk to him live here in the cooking issues, studios. Now, before we get into that, so where do you live?

Now? I live in Queens in Jackson Heights. Yeah, but

where's your farmers market? Where are you buying your tomatoes? Oh, well,

a lot of them. I bought at the check in Jackson Heights Farmers Market, which is run by Green Market? Well, it's a lot of the same Stokes there. It's Stokes is not there. But I did get I did get a big round of tomatoes from Stokes, which ones I got flat of mixed heirlooms and I got a flat of they're red. They're like regular red,

did two tomatoes from Stokes, that, to me are the only ones that I ever the only tomatoes I buy other than just crap tomatoes and say the small yellow ones. No, I buy the German stripes, which are large, and kind of modeled yellow, and red. And the aunt Ruby's German Green, which are green, relatively large, and then get a pinkish red blush that goes around them. And I've been buying these these exact two tomatoes from them. For you know, it's over. It's gotta be, I don't know, like 10 years or something, like 910 years. So I wait for them every year. I know exactly what they look like, when they're the way I want them to be. And like how long it's going to take them to get them where I want them to be. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so like, for me, it's like there's a lot of heirlooms we can get this discussion later. aren't very good to begin with. That's true. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so we'll, we'll talk about all this. And then we'll also talk about the implications for the remember growing up those like those rectangular plastic boxes. Oh, yeah, the clam shells. Yeah. What were the well the rectangular like mesh boxes long they had for three or four really kind of sallow looking to tomatoes and then they were over wrapped with plastic and then they had like an image of like a nice tomato on the plastic wrap you're talking about. Yeah. Because like that's what I grew up with as a tomato or like the diner tomato, which is that right now those those things are the size of like, well, I don't know. You can't see my hands like a handball. They're like tough small crappy, medium small their size like a little larger than a Kumari tomato. Yeah, I think are a fine supermarket tomato. It tastes good. Yeah. People hate on those things. They actually they taste good. And they're year round. They're not bad to eat.

They're not all that bad. No. Okay.

So let's get to some questions though. And Daniel, please feel free to chime in as some, you know, technical, technical cooking questions I got to get to otherwise I'll hear clam rings. So Jesper writes in from Sweden regarding a road of apps and vacuums. Now, you might recall, Jesper has written in a couple of times about roadmap problems. He's making a building of roadmap set up for those of you that don't know what a road map is, a rotary evaporator is a vacuum still, that allows you to do like distillation of flavors at very low temperatures. And under vacuum, there's no oxidation and there's almost no heat damage to the flavors, very pure flavors. And you can do it with a you know, you could do with a normal condensers piece of laboratory equipment, if you buy and use it to be very careful to clean them blah, blah, blah, I use them at Booker index the bar, I have to use a very much more complicated way of doing it because I can't just deal with alcohol. So in order to keep the flavors intact, I need to use liquid nitrogen and special kind of condenser so yada, yada. So that said, that is what a roadmap is they ain't cheap. If you you know, they ain't cheap. I first saw on the first time I weighed when I first started working in the French culinary even when I was part time there, you know, we were researching all equipment, I knew I wanted to do some vacuum distillation. So I built a really crappy one, you know, like out of parts that I found around, found around, and it really kind of sucked, but it gave me like a taste for it. And I saw the ROKUS do a demonstration at Madrid fusion where they did the oyster things The first time I ever seen the distilled dirt going in distilled dirt water to the point on the surface or surface thereof. I was like, let's get real one. Okay, so Jeff writes it. And I previously sent a question that is still unanswered, I apologize. Consequently, I would appreciate if Dave can have his expertise and opinions on this question. Namely, in regards to selecting a vacuum pump for a roto that though, I'm already in the process of buying one, so now Jeffers got looking at. Okay, so you need a vacuum to run a vacuum. Still, this is obvious, right? That seems apparent, right. Because when you lower the when you lower the pressure, when you lower the pressure inside of a system, you you decrease the temperature at which things boil just like going up to the top of a mountain, you decrease the temperature at which things boil things boil a lower temperature, therefore, you can shift the distillation point down to a lower temperature. That's the whole principle of what's going on here. Now the deal is you need a vacuum pump that can one get to a low enough vacuum pressure that you can really reduce the boiling point especially if you're going to do cooking with it, you need very good vacuums, because if you're going to try to make things like syrup's, and you don't want to get too hot, they have a very high boiling point, think of when you're boiling candy down, you're boiling down, as the temperature goes up and up, you need a better and better vacuum to be able to maintain this low temperature, right. So the other thing you need is you need a vacuum that can one tolerate some moisture, because you're going to mess up and you're going to you're going to accidentally suck some moisture up into your vacuum pump. So it needs to tolerate some moisture. And three, you need it to be powerful enough that it can suck the vacuum fast enough. So a lot of people make a mistake, they try to get either these little things called aspirators, which run off of faucets and they they're kind of weak, they don't have they don't they're not strong enough, they can't suck enough of a vacuum fast enough to really be useful for what we're doing. And then other people go the other way, they get a really vacuum that sucks a lot but can't get to a low enough vacuum level. So like a vacuum cleaner, or a hood has a huge amount of exhaust, or you can exhaust a huge amount, but it can't do it to a very low vacuum. So these are the problems. So Jasper is looking at buying either the beauty V 700, or V 710 pump, which is their standard laboratory vacuum pump. I have the V 700. It's nice, it can get down to around 10 millibars of state atmospheric pressure is about 16 1600 You know 1000 Sorry, 1065 millibar. So it gets down pretty low, but it can't really get that all the time that can really get to about 20 Especially if your roadmap is leaking and it's kind of a pain in the ass leaky Rotovac by the way, for those of you that don't know Vicki wrote about key cause of flavor loss and a distillation leaky rotor that because your air is sucking in through the leak and stripping flavor up and out through your pump. In real life when you're using a vacuum pump in in a rotary evaporator evaporator distillation, your pump should run down to its pressure and then never turn on. Again. That's the best of all possible worlds and then you're losing no flavor. Think about it. You're evacuating it down to a certain level. You're supposed to boil everything off and then re condense it and the condenser you're not supposed to have to suck a vacuum again supposed to be like closed loop that doesn't work that way. So the pump always has to run a little bit But it shouldn't ever run that much. But the more much more expensive pump, the pump I have is the one that you know he's saying the 700 the cheaper one. And do you know how to make this i By the way, I'm running the show for the first time off of my new iPhone six plus fabuleux. Check that out. But unlike the if my iPad, it seemed keeps turning off on me, do you know how to go into settings and make this thing not automatically turn off? Because I keep looking down? And then I have to use my finger to sign in? And oh, it's

only finger sign? No, I

still have password on it. But like it's irritating. Every time I go to look at the question. I say something, I go down and I see my lock screen. It's no fun. So anyways, so the seven 710 is much bigger pump. If you could afford it, I would go for it. If you could afford the you know footprint, I would go for it because it's going to be better for things like syrup because it can get down to a much lower vacuum pressure. It has another level of pump on it. Both of the other also, there's a thing in vacuum pumps Daniels, sorry about the listen to vacuum pump technology. But there's one of the problems when you're doing a vacuum is is that you suck. How long is it gonna stay on forever? Really, it says. So there's a thing in a vacuum where if you get moisture inside of your vacuum system, right and you're not pumping a lot, you can't get down to a low level. So they have this thing called a gas ballasts. The after your vacuum system lets a little bit of air in so the sucker can literally pump all the time. Draw dry air with it and expel out your your your moisture. Get it? Okay,

I think so. Yeah.

So when you're running a gas bow as to get the moisture out of your vacuum pump, the bigger vacuum pump can still reach a lower vacuum pressure, right? It's just put this way it's got more balls. Sounds good. Yeah. All right. So if you can afford it, take it. The other question is you need a vacuum controller. And he wants to know whether he should get the V 850, which is the one we have, which is basically just a standard vacuum controller hits the setpoint stops, or the V 855. Which is automatic distillation. Listen, I have no idea. I will always wanted to have the 855. And if you know someone at puky let me tell you, it's the same freaking unit. All they got to do is like flip some switches and like do a firmware update and they can convert they won't. They won't do it. But it's just a software difference. The same piece of hardware. Isn't that isn't that just a kicker?

That sounds like apple. Yeah, right? They're just crippling products. It crippled

why Yeah. Why still still no USB on this damn thing? You don't I'm saying

color on the line. Oh, color. You're

on the air. Hi, Dave. How's it going? Doing all right, what's up?

Hey, I had a couple of equivalent questions. I hope you could help me with. I'm curious in a cheap home ice cream maker. I think I've heard you say before you like the rock salt one.

Which one? The rock salt. Yes. Yep. That's all nice. Yep.

Is there any particular model you like? Or which I look for?

Alright, so I'll tell you that this the sad truth is I want to love the whatever it's called the White Mountain, which is the kind of that white mountain that's the name of it, right? I can't remember.

Yeah, I saw I saw that on. I think Shut up like route or something. Yeah,

it's good. I have one, right. It's really good. It's expensive, right? But it's like, right, it's it's old timey and the scrapers that it uses are wooden. Okay. Now I had a thrift store. Like I forget the name of it like Redco or something like this a thrift store motorized I also I was stupid. I thought my kids would want to get into ice cream making with me and crank that thing. And so I bought probably Yeah, I bought the hand crank one thinking that oh, we would sit around the table Craig ice cream. Kill yourself? Yeah, hell no. Hell Nice. Yeah, sit there by myself cranking on that thing. So like, if I could go back, I would definitely get the motorized one because I have better things to do with my life, then watch my kids watch me crank and ice cream machine. But the So aside from that, though, like the White Mountain is really good. But the old crappy red, I think red color. And I remember one that I had had a plastic, like scraper Dashers on it that actually did, I think a better job of getting the ice cream off the side of the freezing tin. And so I think that so one of the problems with rock salt and ice ice cream freezers, right is you need to be able to effectively scrape the crystals off the side of the metal container or you get like weird like chunky crystal problems in it. And that's why those companies who make those things don't recommend that you salt the hell out of your ice. They give you a like a salt recommendation and they give you a freezing window that's actually a lot longer than I like now with my old Revco with the plastic scraper blades until that sucker died. Like I could turn out like easy, like 1215 minute batch times on that thing and still get good scrape edge on the sides. Whereas my feeling is with the with the scraper dash or things that they have on the White Mountain that if you were to push the times that fast by salting the hell out of it that it would lose its scraping efficiency. So I've never been but again like you know, I haven't played with the White Mountain as much because you Years ago, I would make ice cream like, like two times a week in my old Repco when I paint, I think three bucks for that ice cream maker on the thrift shop. So sadly, nothing died. And, and so I used to do it all the time, I also bought the really big white mountains. So I don't know whether I would have had better results if I had used a smaller one. Because when I go I go big usually, unless I'm buying something from a thrift shop. It's just you know, it's in my nature, I can't help it. So anyway, so that's, that's my thoughts. What Am I answering any sort of question, or am I just saying things? I can't tell?

No, no, I think I think that's helpful. I know what you're talking about with a scraper. My parents had an old crappy one, too. And I know what you're talking about with the big chunky kind of crystal thing? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you could modify White Mountain.

Yes. I want to ask you about is reading blog posts from a while ago about the little tiny centrifuge? Yep. What do you think about that, now that you've had a chance to use it more to do much? And how does? How does the yield going to compare to like, I love your guys who see no techniques. I've been doing a lot of the trying like outdoors clarification. And I wonder how's the yield? Cannot be can you do this for much more than clarification on it? Just what are your current thoughts on that machine?

Well, it's not good for anything where you care about the solids, because it's very hard. So most of the time, when I work with solids in a centrifuge, you're actually dealing with kind of a stratification of layers. And you're not going to want all of those layers. And so it's useful to have large buckets. So you can scrape the different layers off. So like, let's say you're making like pecan, you grind up the cones, you can get the oil layer, then you can get the fine nut layer, and then you can get the like the like the the outer, you know, skinny layer at the bottom. And it's very hard with a machine like this, it's first of all, it's not going to do not separation so well. But it's very hard with a machine like this to do any real separation. So it's really only useful for things where you want the liquid on top. And you have to spin it a lot. I did do a who's Dino once of F for a large group of people. And I was back when Tristan was the bar manager Booker and DAX and we were in a basement and Bogota spinning for hours, and hours, and hours and hours, and hours. But if you want to do something like lime juice where you only need like, we only need like, you know, a couple ounces and you're good. You know, right? Yeah, yeah,

we did it for Hurricane Sandy to remember for the today's show is Oh, really?

Oh my god, that was a nightmare. Yes, yes. I, I've never like I've never been so like, visibly, like just not in a good mood on a tee on a TV appearance ever. Right? Like visibly just like making Halloween drinks and not good mood. But anyway, it's not that big of an investment. So, you know, if you want to jump in and get it, you know, I'm sure you know, sooner or later, there'll be a much better alternative. But it's not a horrible thing to play around with things like lime juice or small amounts of grapefruit juice and things like that.

Yeah, okay, great. Thanks. Thanks so much. Really appreciate the insight. Okay, cool.

No problem. Thanks for calling. Okay,

new tag line. Am I answering questions? Or am I just saying things?

I it's hard to know. I don't know. I can't tell. So anyway, back to break time when finished. Yes. First question for break. So look, the 855 The key thing with that is automatic distillation, I depends on how they run the arm. For those either don't when you're when you're doing a distillation just like when you're making candy at the boiling point goes up as you're as you're boiling stuff off as there's less water in the product or less alcohol depending what kind of distillation you're doing. Especially when you're doing alcohol distillation, which is what you're going to be doing let's be honest, is the the boiling point is constantly changing. And because the boiling point is constantly changing, you need to sit there and keep adjust constantly the boiling point of the you know the vacuum pressure that you're running the distillation that in order to keep a constant level of distillation. That's how you have to do it. Now the 855 claims to have automatic distillation algorithms that make it so you can walk away from it. I've never used it I don't know if I trust it to make the best possible flavor. Maybe it does in which case it'll save you mean like I have to sit in front of every liter of product I want I or someone who is trained has to sit in front of the rotor that for an hour. Okay, so it's like if you could just you know Ranko Ron Popeil it set it and forget it, you know, then maybe it'd be worth almost untold amounts of money if you're going to do this kind of thing a lot. One last thing you said you had, and this is going to get into this really quickly. Jack before we go to the break is you're using for your chiller. Remember when you're doing distillation, what's the key? What's the key thing to remember distillation moonshiners? Anyone? Anyone cutting off the tails? Well, in terms of taste, yes, but in terms of physics, in terms of physics. makes everything that you boil, you have to condense, right? You have to, in order to do you have to have as much chilling power as you have heating power, or you'll saturate your condenser. Right. So the way moonshiners do this is they always moonshine near a creek or a well and they just put it through a boat ton of water, right through long tubes and a lot of water but they're not doing it at a very low temperature in rotary evaporation you're doing you're, you're chilling, you're condensing, usually at a lower temperature much lower than tap water. chemists use tap water at 20 degrees Celsius, because they're doing their distillation is higher like 60 degrees Celsius, and they just dump dump dump tap water through the condenser, but they're not getting a very large temperature delta between their distillation and their condensing, which means they're not getting a lot of fine resolution of flavors, there's not doing it, they're losing a lot of stuff through their through their vacuum stack. Okay, so you need a low temperature, but you need to have a low temperature and a lot of power. So your piece of equipment that you own, which is a julabo fe 500 recirculating cooler only has 120 watts of cooling power at minus 10 Celsius right, you're gonna want to set it at minus 20 minus 23 Start your distillation and then it's going to that temperature is going to creep up through your distillation runs so you're gonna have to do smaller distillation runs so that your temperature doesn't get too high before you get too far in or you're not going to be able to maintain your chilling you need if I was you it was gonna spend money on something I would spend it on more chilling power All right, let's go to break

today's program has been brought to you by Wilma gene from the team behind Nightingale nine delicious fried chicken and other Southern Comfort food classics awesome burgers too. Located at 345 Smith Street in Brooklyn. That's Wilma gene Wilma Gene 345 dot com

and Oh welcome back. Alright, listen, I started like we're only gonna have time for tomatoes let me like Jack we're gonna have to have some sort of a catch up show at some point. Yeah, that sounds great. Like because I have I have so many questions here show dedicated to it to catching up because I have like nine Yeah, look, I got I got

should we put the freeze on right now? The new question freeze.

What I have like I have to go I have like I have a bunch of questions from Lucas I have Sam's like oh, you know autolyzed for bread. I have cooking black bass. I have Saudi Schwaz I have salt and penetration wife who have Brian penetration as salt. Like salting I've ageless cooking I have I have had to make a phone that doesn't break. None of these things seem that they need it right away liquid smoke. isI versus SodaStream we're going to need to do we're going to need to do a catch up show a special Catch Up Show special catch up show how we got sponsored by Heinz Oh, that would be sick. You know stars as you remember we learned on the show does not care about what brand ketchup cheese. Actually

no, that's not true when I was away this past week, but you're using crappy ketchup. Someone gave like a sir Kensington and that was like,

and you're like, where's my three?

Well, if you read Patrick's book, he you know, he is a firm believer in the Heinz being better than all their ketchup.

Yeah, you know something interesting about the Heinz Corporation they figured out a process for making ketchup relatively early on. That meant they didn't have to use benzoate sodium benzoate in there as a preservative in their stuff. So they were trying to push through a benzo at brand a ban early along with some governmental people so that they could squash everybody else who still had to use Venza. That's some sweet bitterness there like this stuff that we figured out how not to use is dangerous, but then everyone else figured it out. So it wasn't so imperative that they put the band through.

Hey, and we're back on tomatoes. Hey.

Yeah. You know, Ronald Reagan taught me as a child ketchup. That's a straight up veggie it's a straight up serving a veggie sure is anyone anyone old enough to remember this tomato ketchup was considered like in school lunches. They were talking about what what slow foods and that kind of thinking is done Alice Waters and whatnot. Like you know back then. Tomatoes were a vegetable. Think about that. Oh, yeah, pizza man that tomato ketchup was eventually tomatoes are a fruit my son is like through visual and other fruit, but they are used as vegetable made ketchup vegetables, which is nuts. Okay, so, Jack, what are we going to have this ketchup show?