Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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I'm Erica White's host of let's get real the cooking show about finding preparing and eating food. You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s More

Hello, and welcome to the ketchup edition of cooking issues coming to you pre tape actually, we're live right now, but we're not streaming live right now Jack.

I mean, yeah, like technically, we're always alive.

I mean, we're not dead, like we're here yet. When we like. The thing is like, that never mean what does what does it even mean? What does life mean? Like if we're not streaming live? Right? Right? You can't really say it's live because live implies that, you know, no, no opportunity for I guess live implies no opportunity for editing.

Right? Right. Although there's always an opportunity. Yeah, but

there is always an opportunity for editing. Most importantly, self editing. But the Yeah, I mean, I guess it's not like we have time to edit these things anyway right jack? So not really so much. So as good as life because we're not going to edit it anything we say is just going to show up on this. But don't don't bother picking up your telephones and calling because we're not at studio right now. If you're listening to this we're not here right? I mean, maybe we are if you listen to this next Tuesday at apt

if you really want to get into it I'm sure that most of the time when people listen to cooking issues we're not here either with a podcasting us, you know,

right, yeah, but uh, hey, you know, but people do call in it's like, it's like, you know, live ish.

Yeah, you know, heritage Radio Network live ish.

Yeah. Well, and like radio quotes, right? Right. I mean, I don't know. I don't I really don't know. What do you think about this does? I don't know. I don't want to get into it. Alright, so listen, we are though as usual, joined with Miss Dasha, the hammer Lopez and Jack back from back from where were you? Jack was

in Louisville, Kentucky. And how was that? It was awesome. Yeah. Where are you going to town? I spoke on a panel called Mastering the media.

And did you in fact, master the media.

I was supposed to help others master the media. I told them that podcasts are the Wild West and they seem to like that. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

And so Wow. So like, Rick actual radio is like Eastern capitalist bankers and witnesses like, right. We're all in an episode of Hell on Wheels right now. Yep. Mike, I definitely don't get to be Columbo Han and somebody else somebody else gets to be Columbo Han and not me. You watch the show stuff like that. Show your

brand a little Louisville those cool town.

It's a good town. Yeah, really. It's uh, you know, they got things that I like a lot. They got your Whiskey. Whiskey is delicious. They

have a lot of it. Oh, you know what else to have you appreciate this. I went and visited the flavor man. They develop all the soda flavors to go lab a soft flavor science lab.

And is it actually one man?

The flavor man is one man. His name is Dave but he's got a pretty big team working for him.

Like, it's kind of a good title. I'm Dave the flavor, man.

Yeah. is a really cool place. I'll show you photos after the show though. Or the way you allowed to take photos. Yeah, yeah, they've developed I mean, they can like some they can disclose and some they can't.

They didn't grind up your camera. Did they tell you who? Who you like they tell you who the clients are. They can't tell me all the clients. He's like, listen, I do all of the pool of brands and soda. Hey, you know what? Really ticks me off Jack about sodas and stars will back me up on this. Everyone drinks these? Not everyone. A lot of people drink these like flavored seltzer waters. You know, I'm talking about Jen. It started with that, you know, rancid lemon fake lemon lime flavor that tastes like you'd rip the pledge into your into your water by accident. And then it was like raspberry FlashAir Yep. Last year. Yeah. So here's the thing, right? I'm all for people drinking things that they like to drink. But the smaller bottlers and now here's what really takes I think stars off, right? You hate this? Yeah. Some of the larger brand names like Canada Dry. Hire independent bottlers, right to do their their bottling and these people run seltzer. God's seltzer on flavored seltzer water, right, soda water or, you know, sparkling water for those of you that have never been, you know, near New York or whatever, because some people don't know what seltzer is, you know that weird. They run it through the machines that have had these rancid flavors in them and they poison so like it's always raspberry with us, right? You crack it open and you get these like raspberry note off. Your cells are in ruins. It makes it taste like It's like first of all, it makes you think, Oh, they're not clean. They're unclean people. And then it also is no good. Right. So what are your thoughts on this terrible? Have you known? Have you noticed this check? Yeah, what the heck is wrong with people? You know what? I've never Well, look, I don't buy seltzer outside anymore. Unless I have to because I you know, I make my own. But have you ever had that problem with vintage?

No, no, no, actually,

I haven't. No, God bless a vintage seltzer Corporation.

What's your seltzer of choice if you have to buy it?

Oh, I mean, I'm a New Yorker. So vintage. Okay. Because vintage was the always it was always two bottles for $1. Right. And any real seltzer drinker only buys one liter bottles because anything less is a waste because you're going to drink a full liter of it. And anything more is going to go flat. And if your friend comes over to try and drink some, and they drink out of the bottle, then you have to throw away two liters because I don't want drinks. Oh my god, you know how it is or at a party or they'll crack open a two liter at the end of the night? And number four in small glass. Yeah. And then the whole thing sucks. It's like, is it look any real seltzer drinker will tell you right the first of all you you have to drink everything you buy within about a week because you know you want you want first of all, you want to buy it at a place as high turnover. So the place where there's dust on top of the bottles of vintage just ignore because plastic bottles don't hold co2 that well and they don't last that long, right? So go to a place that gets a good turnover of vintage buy a case of one liters. Like that's the way to do it. writes to us. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like how we're never going to catch up. But one more thing, by the way, Sears hauls are shipping now. We got the notice actually, two of them shipped on Tuesday, we did our non ketchup show one day

or we're doing a show on Tuesday. We can talk about that then Right?

Well, Peter and Emma

Yeah, they're gonna come anyway, but they're shipping like we've gotten a lot of flack on the Kickstarter over over the how long it's taken us to get the product out although it's three months late, but three months late, which in the Kickstarter terms is like not that big of a deal. And I guess people think because there's not a lot of moving parts there's not a lot that can go wrong. When you're trying to make something like like this. Here's all but you're incorrect. You know, you know what happened today Jack? Somebody said on a Kickstarter, they said what they say says

what's going to happen next the tape on the Amazon boxes won't hold.

Oh, just lame trolling. Like you know what? Put your pants on, get out of your underwear. Get out of your parents base get out of your parents basement. Go to you know, just go outside you know, like if you're like me and you burn wear a hat, but get outside. Walk around. You clearly have too much time to troll me. And you know, I wish everyone happy searing who ordered a sizzle? Yeah. And I hope I like really all we really want is for people to enjoy the product. That's all we really want. Is it for people to have a good product they can enjoy? We don't want to get ruined, right which was you know, we just want people to you know, we want to be good for people.

Except that guy. No, and I have another one.

I hope that I hope that you know the tape does fall off his Amazon tape. That's right. I

hope that box is not And then after that

no and once once Amazon is yeah guess what still until it's in their hands hopefully with hopefully it tapeless box arrives mangled but still with a pristine series all inside to this person's house and you know what I still hope they enjoy this here so of course I hope they enjoy it searing good in good health and with good for oh no and then he he or she I don't really know upended worst Kickstarter Ever. Which makes us worse than the people's got my he's Comic Book Guy then Yeah, mate well makes us makes us worse than people who actually never delivered a product. You know, I was I was compared on Twitter. This is by someone who actually just wants to see us all. So it's not that they were just getting a big smile. They're getting some margin. Okay, gotcha, right. Bernie made off of cooking equipment. The Bernie Madoff being correct me, but more of a Ponzi scheme, right. So if it was a Bernie Madoff kind of situation. First of all, right? I mean, like, we would have scammed first like something a lot bigger than 6065 years old. But it would work more like this. Listen. Listen. You send me one screen. And then I'm going to get two people to send you screens and we're just going to keep doing this forever. Right to Sears all screens. That's how it works. That's if I was the Bernie Madoff with Sears is a pyramid. It's a pyramid sweep pyramid scheme. You know, pyramid schemes. Like, they never ceases to amaze me how much people continue to love a pyramid scheme. You know, there's a show I don't know what network it's on. It's called American Greed. You heard about this? I think Stacy Keach is the is the what's it called the narrator for it. Remember, Stacy Keach? The actor? I don't think it's him. He's a huge play detective you've played like, like Mike Hammer. You know, your namesake. And and so he narrates this thing on American Greed. It's all about swindlers who have ripped people off with like things that are too good to be true. And turns out, they are too good to be true. And it's always like, it's always like someone in Hoboken or Spokane that's like lost their life savings. And now, like they have to work at a gas station, even though they're 85. And like, you know, you know, incapacity, you know, it's it's horrible stuff. But then the commercials in it are literally, like, the commercials that I saw, were to invest in what are clearly schemes, like pyramid schemes, like this, one lady comes on, she's like, she's like, Hey, and like, I swear to God, I swear to God, the what they were talking about on the show was this guy who said, Listen, I'm gonna guarantee you, you know, 12% a year off my real estate investments, and was buying just bunk, like real estate that was worthless, and then taking all the new subscriptions and just spending it and paying the dividends out to people in classic made off style stuff, right, needed to keep getting new people because he wasn't making any money because he wasn't actually investing in anything worthwhile. Right? Literally during that segment, there was a lady in a commercial was like guaranteed returns on real estate investments can't lose you know, just love a BA was like holy crap, like, the world is a weird

place. Shame on you, CNBC, la CNBC, CNBC. Shame

on you. Shame on you, CNBC with your money. Reporting. Okay, some questions. Finally, people's questions. Oh my goodness, I just punched up the wrong thing. I punched up. Oh, stop playing Stereolab I was like, my iPhone. We're gonna get sued because we're not paying our BMI as cash. Okay,

but through an iPhone speaker through a microphone, then all bets are off. Well,

somehow, somehow I looked up drop Dropbox to get my day cooking issues up, but instead it picked up Stereolab blips drips. So I'm gonna get the actual questions up here. Oh, maybe I should switch back to the iPad. I'm having some severe bad luck when I'm going to try to iPhone this thing. Even with my new phablet phablet

Oh, you're using that word.

I know. It's terrible.

Why is it fab

Cabo fabulous. sounds gross. Says gross. Yeah, I don't like I only I only use it to be kind of like a jerk because it's terrible work. Okay. Brandon bird writes and it's not Brendan Byrne arena. It's Brandon bird very close. I would love for him to go to a concert at two they still call it the Brendan Byrne arena. Where did you see Fleetwood Mac styles and stuff. You saw Fleetwood Mac. It's awesome. She said they played for four freakin hours. Three play for 12 hours. They were they were their own opening band. Oh my god. Yeah. And and by the way, stars well known dislike her of Stevie Nicks before but now

No, not this like just did not like her compared compared to Christine McVie.

Right but now you know respect a

lot of respect for her. Yeah, that boy she's voice is really

Oh, don't go that far. It's this is still still still interesting me. The family here. Yeah, still like, but you know, just now she has a presence

on status. Wow. Who's Stevie Nicks? Yeah.

You know, I saw like, actually, I guess a little bit later era in was m and Wilson from heart. Right and Wilson, she kicked some serious behind. It's awesome. She's tore up the stage when I was at Tulsa cocktail. Oh, yes. tore it up. Love to see that. Okay. Brandenburg from Chicago writes in Hello hammer Dave and Jack or whoever's working the booth this time by the way I fired up a Sears all last week and that was named Elizabeth. Yeah. She was like, Oh my god. The boards are breaking and she has cut the cut the cut all the mics out. Oh, wow. Cuz she heard anyway. Don't worry. We got Jack's

first day on cooking issues before Liz. Yeah, that's a shark me. Oh, this.

All this like fermented shark meat. Right? Yeah. A few questions for you. I recently used my pressure cooker to render some ground beef fat inside mason jars. And I noticed a curious phenomenon. After cooking for two hours and cooling the jars down in room temperature they still bubbled and boiled doubled in volume. Do you like the word boiled? Or does it sound too much? Like like spore moly, no,

no, no. Well, that's fine. Well,

someone figures the even after the jars are cool to the touch. What is up with that? Okay, so answer that first. So assuming you're doing the pressure cooking in, in the jars. Allah Modernist Cuisine has a section on rendering out lard and the pressure cooker, because the good news about rendering lard in the pressure cooker, is that. Okay, okay, look, let's go through it. When you're rendering not lard, in this case, fat when you're rendering fat, you need to get the temperature above, you want to get the temperature above boiling, because not all the fats going to render out at 100. Anyway, so you and you need to, you need to heat the fat up not just enough to melt the fat, but to break it loose from its the connective tissue where it is and render it out. And you get the cracklings. And you get to what depends with pork, you get the cracklings, and you get to whatever else right with me stars, kind of the good news about a pressure cooker is that you can't, you're not going to boil off all of the water that's in it. So you're going to get basically a constant 200 and in Fahrenheit constant like 250 something degrees Fahrenheit, until you've actually steamed all the water out. So it's a good way to regulate the temperature of the stuff that you're rendering so that it's not going to get any burns and it's not going to brown. Now it's clear and beautiful stuff like this, right? Still allow the water in it, though. So you have to then separate the water out or like solidify it. So this is like the premise. Now. Another thing that people do is they add baking soda to, to the fat when it's rendering supposedly makes it wider and color. Baking soda is alkaline. So it's probably shifting, making sure that it's not too acidic, it's probably also reducing the, you know, the amount of free fatty acids I don't really know. But it's like a known thing to add some baking soda to it. And, and monitors because you guys do exactly that. So here is what I think is happening. Baking soda starts to degrade at temperatures even without so typically when you're using baking soda, right? You take baking soda, and you add an ass acid to it. And then you get a reaction where you're you you are forming a carbon dioxide, right. And that's how the leavening works. However, baking soda, even not in the presence of an acid will start to decompose and form carbon dioxide. And it'll do that at temperatures inside of a pressure cooker. So my guess about what's happening. And I asked Chris Young about it to ask him about it. My guess is that when you're heating up the stuff in the jar, right, you're decomposing some of the you're decomposing some of the baking soda, that's forming carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide is then going into solution in the water might also be an oil, I don't know about the solubility of co2 into oil. I mean, I know and tuo is very soluble in oil. That's why we use it and whipped cream. I presume co2 is somewhat soluble in oil, but I really don't know. But there's also still water phase in there, remember, so what you're doing is, is you're putting a large amount of co2 or not large amount but an amount of co2 into the liquid at a relatively high pressure. And I'm presuming that when it cools off as the pressure decreases, the co2 is bubbling out or maybe it's still producing co2. I don't know it's to me, it's got to be a co2 effect. I can't think of anything else reason why after it's cooled to touch it will continue to bubble unless it's continued production of co2. That's all I can think about. And then as the pressure reduces, more stuff will bubble up. But on the other hand, as it cools, it becomes more soluble. So who knows it's a crapshoot, but it's the only thing I can think of and Chris seemed like it seemed reasonable, but I don't know it's interesting for now and anyone else who knows, please write in and tell us. Oh, here's some here's some stuff. This also by the way, he is a fan of these flavors, really of the seltzer flavors, like you I'm a big fan of bubbles, hello Seltzer and quite enjoyed. mixing carbonated water from my Soda Stream with fresh citrus juice. Do you like that word? I also quite enjoy citrus flavored carbonated beverages from brands like

strong sound, man. Yeah, like

Can we can we just have that as like our like,

I gotta get that on the sound effects board.

Yeah. Her flavored seltzer noise like Lacroix Lacroix. Ah, how do you pronounce How do you think that like Americans pronounce this thing? Yeah, cola. I guess the the crocs Lacroix Lacroix I guess Americans Lacroix Do you have any insight as to how beverages like that are produced? Is it simply a matter of dosing carbonated water with essential oils? Or is there something else involved? Okay, first of all, no non essential oils essential but you know, using oils oils have to be suspended in the motion and typically not clear when you add them to the classic one of this is citrus beverages like Sunkiss, which aren't clear, they're a little bit cloudy. And it's because they have emulsified oils in them. Those emulsified oils need to be stabilized. And so for short stabilization periods, you can add if you want to do this, you can do this you can get essential oils. And you can emulsify them with gum arabic in very strong into kind of a water slash or alcohol slash oil emulsion with gum arabic water out, do water and then add stabilizers if you need to put every book so you have this like essential oil that's emulsified, it's gonna be cloudy looking like white cloudy, like chalky water that you can then add to soda and you can drink it like that it's fine. And because the emulsion size is very, very small, so you're not going to get a lot of excess bubbling. It's not like adding like lemon juice to it or something like this, you're not going to get a huge amount of bubbling out you're going to be okay because the particles are to really small to cause a lot of nucleation presuming you do it, right. Right. So you should be okay, they're in the business though, the gum arabic isn't stable enough to have it suspend for a long, long time. So what they do, what they used to do is they would use brominated vegetable oil. And the bromine makes the oil remember oils lighter than water. So the bromine that they add to the essential oil makes the basic oil droplet heavier, because part of it is the essential oil and part of it is brominated vegetable oil. And that has a weight that's heavier than water. So when you add the oils together into the droplets, they get a relatively neutral buoyancy and they don't want to float out. And by adding brominated vegetable oils, you can get a citrus beverage that's going to be stable through the next Ice Age roughly. But you know that order of magnitude or you know till we have a nuclear war or whatever, whatever it is nuclear war, Ice Age, whichever comes first. Whatever. However, people don't like brominated vegetable oil anymore, because there might be some health risks etc. And so people have moved away from it. And now like one of the replacements that they're using is something called sucrose acetyl Isobe butyrate, or sai B for not as crazy, which apparently is non toxic, but I didn't really know relatively little about it, because I don't do that I don't really do that kind of stuff for a living, right. So I was gonna do that. But the way they make the clear beverages is they use extracts, right? So the extracts are only stuff that are soluble in water and an alcohol usually, some of them will cloud when they're dissolved, depending on how they're do it. But usually they'll compound those flavors, such that they don't cloud up when they're diluted and they work so the flavors aren't going to be the same. That's why these things don't really taste like real treatment are not really like the you're losing whole parts of the of the citrus when they're doing that because they're adding only compounds that are that you know, are going to be soluble in water and stay clear. And there's specific people that make that so you're going to buy, he's going to buy the extracted that's right for that. And by the way, just because the flavor is natural. I don't prove to people know this in general, just because a flavor is natural flavor man. Doesn't mean that it's the flavor that you are buying. Now we talked about this. Yeah. So So usually, if you say something has natural lemon flavor, right, and you don't want to say on it a little lemons, but you don't want to say on it. natural lemon flavor with other added weirdness, right. What you do is you say the lemon flavor, it has to have some component from the lemon in it, right? And then once once, which w o n f with other natural flavors, and all it means is is they make purified chemical flavors from natural sources and then dope it back in. So there's really no I mean, in my estimation, no advantage really. That's what like natural flavor versus artificial flavor. Like unless someone literally is doping something with a poisonous flavor really means nothing to me. You know what I mean? Like I don't really care like I care. Does it taste the way I want it to taste? You know what I mean? That's all. Um, so he

was saying that nothing that's labeled cherry would ever have cherry and it's all benzaldehyde

Yeah, it just depends on where they get it. If they get it from a natural source, and it's a natural flavor, you know, I'm saying, and then if there's like one molecule from a charity somewhere in there, then you're good. You know, it's like, it's an absurd thing. It's an absurdity that, like, you know, we focus on it, because as soon as you have something with a label, and then there's a rule for that label, then companies will figure out how to work around that label to make the product in a way that's good for the company to make that product that fits the letter of the of the law for the label. That's it, you know, whatever. But anyway, I have no problem with with flavors, as long as they taste good. Do you like Apple Jacks? Does? The cereal Yeah, love that. Right. But they what do they not taste like? Apple? Yeah, it tastes like it though. Yeah. Well, there's, we've talked about this on the air before, I think, but there was a commercial number of years ago, where these kids were like, these don't taste like apples. And then stars was on saying, but I still love them. Right? Because 87 Suddenly, I don't know, like, what's the thing? You were on the commercial? Oh, might as well. Might as well have its does, but like the thing is, the point is, of all this is that people like Apple Jacks because they taste like Apple Jacks, not because they taste like apples and like whether the flavor is real or not, you know, artificial or natural. You know, you you know, is not and if what you care about is not having stuff that's been torqued and mucked with, then real or natural is not the label you should be looking for. Right? Whatever. But Miss dotclear doesn't care about that because she just wants her Applejack stays like Apple Jackson. Right? Anyways. Fruity rings, stars everyone and if I can for a minute, the flavors of gummy bears that you like versus the flavors you don't like or which ones

I like the white ones. And that's it. I can deal with the red and the green with the rest can go which are the ones who specifically don't like yellow and orange but most people don't like yellow and orange of anything. Jack

What are your thoughts on this? Is that true? She's She's believed that most people are not a fan of the yellow and that why the yellow you get too much of a lemon pledge flavor. I

mean, it depends

as a kid and when you got a bunch of yellow and oranges of anything, and it was always the majority

I used to buy. Red was what everyone? Red ones.

Yeah, I used to buy the you know how Tic Tac Toe used to come in dual flavor packs? Like they would mix. Maybe they still do you know I'm talking about two colors in one. I used to love the yellow orange pack, of course.

Oh, the orange tiktoks are good. Yeah, those Oh,

no. What about the tangerine lifesavers? I

don't like orange flavored candies. Really? Yeah.

Do you like orange? sherbert? Or sorbet? Yeah, I

can. Yeah.

Do you like creamsicles? Because yeah, good. All right, because otherwise, we would have had a fist fight. Right here. I would have lost but we would have had I honestly have increased but like I don't have like a high enough level of anger right now. It's true. You know, it's like, yeah, so I have a, I have a simian crease what it means. What it means is is that you know how what are those two lines? Anyone? A palm reader here? No.

No, clearly not your palm. Everyone has multiple lines in there.

Yeah, and usually have one that's like coming around your thumb and curving down and then you have one that curves up coming over from your pinky, right? I don't I got one line that goes straight across that means a semi increase. So either I'm a monkey, hence the Semyon then certain certain, you know, people with genetic dispositions towards mental retardation also have it. But we pop, you know who I now feel for deeply because he had his Kickstarter delays with Nomi Koo, from Thailand. camis like, oh, in Thailand, that means that you're going to murder someone by accident. I was like, What the hell Who the hell has like this specific a, like a palm reading thing? Based on

after autopsy stuff, probably they were like, Oh, that man has it and that man has it. And then they all murdered so

he's close by accident. But yeah, but it's by accident accident, specifically by actually that is specifically they did it but they were doing it by accident, which seems

like gotten the fistfight.

Well, he didn't say fist fight. You're just adding this now.

That's probably what happened.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All right. Last question from Brandenburg. Also, a couple weeks back, you answered a question about storing flowers and other powdered stash products in the freezer. From someone who had an allergy and concern we have another question that was who had the allergy because it was a SAM anyway, I look it up. You mentioned you regularly store high end flowers in the freezer that you haven't noticed any appreciable decline in quality. I'm wondering why that's so considering that you advise against storing big starch products like bread in the freezer because of the negative effects caused by starch retrogradation best Brandenburg first of all, freezing bread is okay. freezing it The problem is that refrigeration storage is in bread. So, and the general rule of thumb and the, in the literature, the industrial literature, I don't wanna say scientific, it's more industrial literature on bread, baking and bread storage is that a single freeze thaw cycle that you go through. And by the way, you want to freeze it quickly and you want to thaw it quickly. But that single freeze thaw cycle is worth about a day's worth of storage in terms of stealing at room temperature, which is why if you're going to but once it's frozen, you don't lose anything. So if you're going to freeze bread, right, and you're freezing it today, right then it's like when you thought to eat it right away it's like you're eating it tomorrow night right? But if you wait till tomorrow night to freeze it, it's like you you're you're losing another day after that so it makes sense does so it freezing itself isn't a problem. It's as it goes in and out of freezing. The real problem is is refrigeration temperatures okay, the other thing is that the flowers don't fit those rules at all because starch retrogradation only applies to starches that have been cooked right and and you know hydrated with water and then over time those the starches like recrystallize right and so then the water becomes a man that goes stale so starch retrogradation is only a problem and starches that have been cooked already and where you don't want to have them recrystallize Yeah, make sense? Okay. Oh, and he also adds a PS going through your back episodes, I noticed that you solicited names for the product that became a series all being late to the game I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring in hopes that you come out with a larger format tabletop boiler in the future. My suggestion the hell Bender Hellbenders are monstrous and Fabian is the largest salamanders native to North America. They look scary and have a lead name. I know you like salamander puns. Piper really used to like salamander buns. And Hellbender sounds much better than Sally hander sorry pipes or Sally Matic no offense he said no offense to Piper nummy Don't worry. Looking for Piper motor. I don't know if I see him Alaska. I looking forward to getting my off searing ice sometime soon. Cheers Brandenburg. Okay. Michael writes in Hello Dave Anastasia and all mother masters of sound like hey, like that Jack masters?

Mother master of sounds that he said. Yeah.

No, and all masters of sound. Like master sounds like mother masters. That's my next band. Mother masters of sound like wheat. Someone make that band. They just do some grace. What's it called called? GarageBand on your new iPhones?

Oh, wait, do you want to tell them about Jesus here?

No, I don't want to talk whether we don't have a name for him yet. There. Although Daniel Gratzer, who was here on Tuesday came up with a sweet name. What was it?

Sandals Little Hipster? Oh, yes. And

his little hipster.

You know or die yogic? No,

He's new. Oh, I

know. You're new into Jesus. Yeah,

he's not he's not Jesus related. But he is he is Christmas related. He said his Little Hipster is awesome. And I don't want anyone he's not a dwarf don't come back and say that we're he just looks like an elf. A boy with like hipster L.

There's a reason for this nickname? Yeah,

then it has nothing to do with his height. So don't write in and say that were bad people. Okay. How much salt do you add to food? When cooking? Not brining? Is it possible to calculate? Is it based at all on water content? And food? Also? Does perception of salt really changed when it's added at different stages of cooking? Also, can one calculate how much of a spice or herb add when cooking and ratios of one spice another overall? Are there universal constants? No. I don't think so. I mean, I always there's certain recipes that you know what's going to happen. And so you add definite percentages. So breads, you typically add a percentage and every Baker knows what percentage they are going to add of salt. And you typically then you're salting on flour basis, not on flour and water basis. Because after it's all said and done when you bake, you really care about the quantity of salt in the final product not in the not in the in the dough. And usually your hydration level out when you bake, right. I mean, let's be honest, unless it's like something really, really dry. And so typically, for a given recipe, style, like a cookie or a bread, you'll use a particular percentage. And I used to use you know, McGee told me about this writer, bread writer in San Francisco, who's apparently well known used to work, I think, an Acme and he forgot his name. And, you know, he wrote that in the old days, we would use like a percent, a percent 2% and a half assault, which is what I typically would have used in bread back in the day bread and pizza dough, things like this. He says modern people are pushing up like over 2% on salt, which seems high, but you know, anyway, but point is that salt levels, I guess have been rising up in a lot of these artisan breads over the past couple of decades. But yeah, so that has a definite percentage. And I think you can do the same thing. With other things if you've made a noise Demeter with other things that are kind of uniform. So you know when rice comes in like that doesn't have salt in it. And so you can calculate, I haven't done it, but you can calculate a percentage that you're going to add of salt to rice before you cook it, what I would do, if I would take the rice that you make, I would take a batch, make a batch, weigh it, and then you know exactly what the weight is of a particular rice after you cook it and then do a percentage basis on that like a percent or so probably percent percent to whatever. But when you're dealing with things, other things, especially things that have some their own inherent salt in them, you never know how much salt you're gonna need to add because you don't know what the flavor of the original thing was. And certain things require more salt than others based on the levels of other flavors that are present in them. Does that make sense to us, and as to whether you should add it before or after I think a lot makes a difference if you add salt to bread afterwards, then you're a then you're a nasty Tuscan person. And we all know Tuscan bread is terrible. Just tastes awful because they don't put salt in it. So you have to clearly with bread, add it, add it before before you make it when you're making the dough. It can also make a difference for instance, in bread when you add it, because it also changes how fast the yeast works. When you're soaking beans in salted water, the salt can change the rate of the absorption of the water into the beans. So like in certain cases, it makes a functional difference when you add the salt. But in other cases, I think it almost always makes sense to add salt as your cooking. Oh another one meat. If you add salt to meat before you cook it, if you add it a long time before you cook it, then it can change the texture of the meat right. So that's why if I'm doing a long Cook of something like a steak, and I want it to taste like a fresh like like a broiled steak, I won't add the salt if I'm going to cook it for a long time because I don't want the texture of the meat to taste more like a cured texture of meat which it will at the saucer for a long time well, especially when it's cooking for a long time. Okay, so, so there you have it on that. But other than that, or for instance, I'm sorry, if you're going to make a stock, you don't have the salt now because you don't know what form you're going to use the stock, you're going to reduce it and then your salt levels all wrong. However, when you're using ingredients, and you know that the ingredients that you're preparing it into its final state, like for instance, I'm making a sauce and the sauce is going to go on something else, right? I want the sauce to taste the right level of salt. So I'll salt the sauce while I make it. I also want the meat that I'm putting the sauce on to have the right level of salt. So I'll have the meat taste good if you were to taste it without the sauce. I think in general, if you follow the rule have everything tastes good on its own in terms of its salt level, when you combine them, they'll still taste good. I'm not such a fan of saying I'm going to make one bland piece of crap. And then I'm going to put something really salty on top of it because then the two things are unbalanced on their own. And what if someone takes a bite of one and not the other? Or what if you have a piece of potato that you didn't salt the water? Because for some reason you don't like to salt water. I don't know what's wrong with you. I don't know why you didn't sell your potato water. But if you did that, right and some guy got a big chunk of potato, a little bit of salt on the outside. Well that potato is going to be bland because the interior that potato is not going to have any frickin flavor, right? Whereas the person has a small piece of potato, they're not going to have too much salt because they have relatively more sauce on it. So in that situation, I would say add the salt all at once. You know what I mean? Okay, but then again, and he says, Yeah, all right. Okay, what do you think Jack said that okay, yeah, you got it. Oh, and same thing with spices. First of all spices are even worse, like spices and herbs because the relative pungency or power of a given spice or herb, it's wildly depending on how old it is, where it was sourced, the variety it is, etc, etc. So there's really no rules. That's why when people ask for recipes, and you give them a recipe and like you know, it's got like, I don't know, time in it. I don't know how much time you need to add. Why don't you just chop up the time? And then when it tastes right, you're done. You know what I mean? But you're not allowed to write a recipe that says add the amount that makes it taste good. You know, I'm saying people hate when you write recipes like that. But I'm like I'm famous for with with lanterns, I was well known for always just saying make it taste right somewhere, right? Anyways.

Okay, I just fast blast to do something. We had a question from Andre in Germany that has gone unanswered for a while. Just please sure we didn't

answer that one because I have that one here right here. Like it's the next one on the thing, but we sure we didn't we didn't get to that one. You know, he's

sent me a few emails here this week. So Andrea

with eggs. Hi there. I have a question for Dave on cooking issues. I'm a judge. I'm from Germany and listen to your show regularly. I have a question regarding baking without eggs. I am not a vegan but don't tolerate eggs and all my attempts at baking cakes have been awful. Burnt like that were burnt. Burnt and sponge cakes turned out extremely moist and heavy. Not light and fluffy at all. This might be okay and a fudgy brownie and fudgy brownie like cakes. But I'm looking for a sponge chiffon cake like you don't like sponge right? The word? No no. Sponge chiffon cake that is usually just made with eggs, flour, sugar and baking powder. And that can be used for layering cakes. With whipped cream as for stressful Swiss rolls, kind of like an angel food cake, but with the yolks also being used. I tried various egg replacers, but they don't work well either. Do you have any idea and a good recipe for that? Thanks for your help, Andrea, okay. Well, okay, eggs are a miracle, right. And so like they have various different functions and in different cakes, they, they do various things. Obviously, they add structure in the form of protein, we see whether I actually think they add structure in the form of protein, or in Angel cakes, they add. In Angel cakes, they add actual foam, right, so you whip them into a foam and you beat it in. So there's usually not a single a group. And also there are emulsifiers, right? Because when you're adding egg yolks or something, you add fat, you add fat and emulsifiers, which can also you know, improve the texture of cakes. So I don't think you're going to find any one single egg replacer that's going to replace all of the, you know, all of the different functions that eggs can perform even within a cake that said there are people working on this problem right now. Notably, Bill Gates is a big investor in a company that's doing there's two I think, main fake aid companies in the both in California, of course, and one of them is already come out with a non egg mayonnaise. Mayonnaise, right? What's your check? Do you know what this is called? Maybe you could do a quick search for me. And there's another company that's working on eggs that can literally be scrambled and eaten as though they were an eggs. They're looking to get the color right the texture and I guess also somewhat the flavor,