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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues is the Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you late, late on Roberto. Roberto pizzeria the network in Bushwick. Calling your questions 2718497 was the phone 72128 74 72128. We are so late in fact that I'm going to have to well, while I'm cleaning up the stuff we can have some of the niceties but we have no time for the normal niceties. We can't be nice today. Nicely. We do have

a caller who has been patiently waiting. Oh, geez.

Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. It's Michael nitens.

Hey, how you doing?

I'm doing fantastic. How are you? All right. I hear you're running late today.

Yes. Yes, I am. But I'm sure you know that well enough to call in late and only have to wait a couple of minutes.

Right. I got the whole schedule figured out. No problem. Sweet. Just wanted to let you know, I just got this cocktail book. I don't know if you've heard about yet called Liquid intelligence.

Oh, I have heard of that. I hear it's terrible. Okay.

I'm actually I'm learning a lot from this book. It's fantastic.

Yeah, there are as I think you point out a couple of the people there are a couple of typos in it that we're going to fix for the next printing. There's just so many there's so many there's so many data points in it that you know, for those of you that are listening, like one of the Manhattan recipes I think Michael you might have pointed this out along with her mom and a couple other people like a one just got dropped so it says a fat three quarters of Vermouth instead of one in three quarters. Right? So either Yeah,

I didn't notice that. But you know what? My book has a million errors and you wouldn't believe the around a section from Irish cuisine. So yeah,

yeah, yeah. Also we had a weird thing where the when they did the layout on one of the charts, like a bunch of the acid percentages got switched into just weird numbers. But don't worry people will get it all fixed

but But despite all that, I forget little details. Now this is a great book. I'm really really interested in learning so much about like the details of how things chill and different kinds of textures and the different asset ratios and everything like my I've always been a kind of a seat of the pants cocktail maker and I can see this is going to up my game considerably. Nice. I appreciate it. Yeah. And I just wanted to just wanted The further because I'm really looking forward to working my way through the whole thing.

Alright, so and, you know, one of the things in the book that, you know, addressing in the, in the future is that currently our Lyme clarification technique that I use, you wouldn't use it at home, you wouldn't use it if you didn't have a centrifuge. Or if you had a really good centrifuge, like, you know, when I say good, I mean, you know, upwards of 40,000 G's or something like this. You know, you could clarify lime juice without any of the clarification aids that I use. But I think one of the things for research maybe you can look into it is this fungal Kurdistan? The because the one thing that we use, it's not vegetarian, is this kind of sandwich is derived from from cells, non allergenic, I'm not worried about it from a seafood allergy standpoint. And it is spun out. So it's not in the product that people are consuming, but it is a processing aid that we're using that's of animal origin. And I'd like to be able to get rid of it. So that's like one of the, you know, because I think I might mention somewhere in I can't remember, because it's a long book, but and I've set it on the air many times is that I think it's entirely fair for, you know, a vegetarian to assume that they can not worry about the cocktail menu unless, you know, unless it obviously stayed something of animal origin, you know?

Right. Right. Right. Although it's not the case with some wine finding agents, too.

Oh, yeah. But the issue with wine finding is that no one tells you what they're using. So, you know, kind of San is used as a wine finding agent. You know, there's

always put this in the category of things. I'm not going to worry about too much. But you're right, I probably wouldn't use it myself. So.

Right, right. That's the thing. So there's, you know, it's like I've always said, like, everyone's drawing a line, right? I mean, you pay taxes to people that eat meat all the time. And we you know, we pay tax, I'm sure, like many of the people that we hire in the government are, you know, not just meat eaters, but like actual bad people, like, you know, torturers, murderers of people, like you know, mutilate errs of animals, all kinds of horrible stuff. So it's like a question of like, well, yeah, it's a question of where's the line? You know, what I mean? And like, what, but you know, it's, I think it's always good to push. Think it's always good to push, as far as you can in you know, in a direction. You always learn more you push, the more you learn.

That makes sense to me. So do you have any ideas of things that can be used instead of medicine

for the line? Well, there is a in the, in the, in the EU, there is a fungally, derived Kaita, Sanne and we got a sample of it at the bar. But it was one of those things where I didn't have time to run the tests myself, and it fell through the cracks, like no one was able to come up with a good protocol for it comes in powdered form. And, you know, everyone was used to using the solution to kind of sand solution. So, you know, I, and I don't know that it's, you know, fully available here in the US, but there's no reason why kind of sand can't be fungally produced. And I think that, you know, with the increasing number of people that want, you know, full disclosure of the processing aids that are used in things that you'll see more of a swish towards, because I think, just in general, regardless of you know, regardless of anything, people like Ash, shrimp shells, you know what I mean?

Right, well, that latest style, Lucky peach pointed out the shrimp industry is a royal mess. So you know, getting away from that would be good, anyhow.

Oh, are they talking about the slavery in Thailand? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's horrible. I mean, I you know, that first came to my attention, I don't know, a couple of months ago. And I was like, I can't believe it. I can't, I can't. I just can't believe it. You know? It's disgusting. Yeah. Well, it just goes to show the more the more you investigate, the worse things are in general, right.

If this is true, sometimes you don't want to. Yeah, the clarified land use freeze. Well, no. No, what about cryogenic freeze?

Oh, I've never tried. Like, like, actually, like, completely immobilize it like sub eutectic. Freezing.

Yeah, we have a ridiculous freezer here.

Why don't you try it and tell me?

Okay, yeah, we'll do. We got we got a big bad centrifuge and a nice freezer. So yeah, I'll give it a shot.

I would freeze it as rapidly as possible. So you don't have so you don't have increased concentration effects as it's freezing down.

Right, if we put stuff flat in the bag and throw them up choosing random reasons very rapidly. Yeah, let

me know. So what I typically do are now just started doing it with the leftover Clary line because we have a lot of it is I sugar it and heat it with a little lime peel and turn it just turn it into a cordial, and then it's delicious. Oh, that sounds good. Yeah. And so it's, uh, you know, it's a cordial that like is already clarified. And so you can use it in, you know, stirred drinks for a cordial flavor. It's quite good because, you know, once you heat it, and you know, once you take old lime juice or sugar and you heat it, then it goes from being that awful old lime juice to being something different, you know?

Right. Right. Right. That makes sense. Sounds amazing. Well, let's I want to pick up your whole show, but great talking to you and congrats on the book, man.

Thanks a lot. Hope. Next time you're out on this coast up. I'll see you

I would never miss a chance. All right.

I think we do have one more caller that was waiting. All right. All right, sweet, sweet caller you're on the air.

Hey, David, from Silver Spring, Maryland. How are you?

Hey, doing all right, what's up?

Well, first of all, I want to, you know, just echo the last caller book is fantastic, you know, went through it pretty quickly. Just a wealth of information there. And it was just, I think one of the things that surprised me the most was just how well, you know, your voice, which I know from from the radio show came through just amazingly, through the book, like I was, I found myself bursting out laughing in different sections.

So hopefully, it wasn't a serious section. Hopefully, it wasn't like the section where you were laughing at how, like, poorly the recipe was going. But

some of the some of that, but one, one complaint that I do have, is that you really did tease us with the red hot poker, and then you're like, Well, I'm not going to tell you how to do it.

Well, I mean, look, I mean, the issue with the I mean, I, you know, I can tell anyone how to make it, you know, I can, I could, I don't have it at my fingertips right now. But you know, I'm never going to sell them. So I have no problem telling people how they're made, except for it's, you know, inherently you, if you can weld, you know, and if you can, you know, purchase stuff with a credit card off McMaster car, you can buy everything, everything that you need for it, you can buy on McMaster cars website, other than

I just figured it was some crazy, legal liability to put those instructions in the book as well.

Well, and I mean, you know, there's, that's already 100,000 words as it is, and like, you know, I, you know, I'm, I don't what I do explain, I don't pull any punches on it. So like, if I was going to go into like a full detail, there'd be you know, I'd have to tell you, like, you know, what to look out for when you're welding, like, you know, what wattage is to look out for, like, you know, issues I have with different kinds of cartridge heaters. Because it's basically just a high temperature cartridge heater. And I've tried, you know, many dozens of different water ages and lengths and diameters, and I've come up with the one that you know, can run, you know, without blowing itself out in the open air, because every, every, anytime you use a heater that's powerful enough to burn itself out and try to control it, the control invariably fails with all the thermal cycling. And when the control fails, it always over it always fails in the direction of getting too hot. And then the thing burns out, sometimes spectacularly so. Yeah, so you know, I, I can give all this stuff, but then also there's like, you know, there's the, you know, you got to insulate it, right, when you're wrapping it, you got to weld it, right, grind it down. I mean, it's not none of its rocket science. You know, like I you know, backland paper was

a lot more work than you kind of mentioned in the book, so we can get that, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, again, if someone wants it, you know, like next week, so if you put the question in, or whatever I can, I can give you the part numbers. And in fact, I'm going to be, I'm going to be making a batch of students, someone stole our welder. And as soon as we get a welder back in, in, in the shop, I'm going to hang enough to make a batch for this year's Red Hot pokers. Maybe I'll take some pictures of the process.

I have some actual questions, though. Just a couple of things. I was going to ask, you know, similarly about the kind of fan I do keep kosher. So you mentioned the font on the books. I heard your answer there seems like there's really not a good alternative. At this point. What I was just thinking right now is that I would reach out to maybe some kosher winemakers and see what they use for wine signing agents. Yeah. And you know, come up with that. The other thing for the clarify grape produce I bought a home carbonation Reagan put into making the gin and juice this weekend. How long I know you mentioned with the line just doesn't really keep very well. You find the same thing with the grapefruit juice as well. No. Maximum

clarifier time Yeah, terrify grapefruit juice keeps fairly well. So you know I think you know, a couple of days is not going to be a problem. Okay, are you gonna do ag are freeze thaw? Agere Okay, let me but ag are what I meant is quick, quick Aguilar or freeze thaw?

Well, which would you recommend? I could do either one. If you're going to use it

right away, you can do quick but Anastasia hates doing the quick right? She hates it. So one of the things that she refuses to ever do again. You know, if you're practice with quick The good thing about clickers, it's quick. I typically reserved Quick clarification for things like lime and lemon that can't sit around or if I only need a small amount, like if you only need like, you know, half a liter, then you know quick is fine. And it because if you lose 250 mils it's not a big deal. If you're trying to make like two gallons of it. You know what I mean? Then quick, Aguilar becomes a bit of a little bit of a pain in the butt. And then I would move to freestyle with freeze thaw you're going to have a probably a higher yield less overall work time even though it takes longer to do and there was another oh yes And the the quick one will eventually Well, the next day will throw a cloud off. So usually if you're going to do quick, do it today you're going to use it, you know what I mean? You can you can resettle out the cloud, but you know, there will be some Aguilar that's left in the in the in the liquid that will then kind of stick together overnight the form kind of cloudiness. So, you know, I would say it, but remember, the free saw takes a couple of days. So you have to start, you know, soon.

Okay, yeah, no, because I'm doing for dinner on Sunday. So I actually know sounds like the freestyle method. If I can ask you one more question. The ad a little sidebar in there about eutectic freezing, and tries, I might understand the principle behind actually, as to my brothers as a chemical engineer, brother in law, so and we weren't really sure what was going on there. I don't know if you can take a minute to kind of expound on that.

Sure. So the, there's a concentration for, you know, all salts in water, where they kind of thought was like a, like a unitary substance like water, right. And so it's the point at which you're the point at which that happens, and the temperature at which that happens. So typically, when you're using a eutectic freezing plate, they'll choose the temperature of the plate based on the, the salts that they put into it, right? And then it freezes, and thaws at that concentration. So if you if you have, if you have less salt, let's say of whatever salt, you're gonna choose in your liquid, what will happen is, you'll start crystallizing pure water out, right, you'll then kind of reach the eutectic solution, and then it'll start freezing as a as a solid there, I think that's how it'll work. And then it'll thaw out. Whereas, if you start with the percentage, you know, with that kind of, like, you know, magic percentage of, of salts in it, it will stay liquid, and then freeze at its at whatever its temperature eutectic freezing temperature is and then freeze solid. And then as it thaws, it will do the same at the same temperature. So there won't be any temperature drift during the, during the freezing and thawing cycle. So it'll,

so it's all about the uniformity of the solution, kind of as it's freezing into into one thing,

right. So you what you don't want to have happen is you don't want to, you don't want So normally if you just use salt and ice, right, eventually as the salt as the as it starts diluting down, the temperature is going to start rising, right? Or conversely, sometimes, you know, if the Brian concentration increases because more salt dissolves into it, your temperature can drop is like you know, like there's like it can go go either way. So by using this kind of like, you know, these magic ratios, you can have it act like a pure substance. Typically, the the specific, the heat of fusion is not as great, I think I'd have to look back it's not as great as it would be in a pure water solution, but you still have that kind of constant temperature. And this is used commercially all the time for things like trucks, where they'll throw like large plates into a huge you know, walk in freezer for several days and throw the plates into a truck or into like a you know, an ice cream cooler case and then they'll go around and they can keep it you know, at perfect dipping temperature, storage temperature wherever they want.

I gotcha. I gotcha. Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

All right. All right. Thanks.

Thanks a lot Dave.

All right. Thank you. Hey, Jack. I know we only had one Yeah, you want you want to do that you wanted to whoever's paid for this episode. You want them to put it up real quick. What's that? Oh, we got we can keep going. We'll put that in later. Oh, I like that we'd like to live listeners to like now whatever. We'll put it in later. Nice. By the way started you want to announce what's gonna happen with Amazon later? No, I don't really want to okay cuz someone called in. Quinn Dupont. I was supposed to talk about searing techniques with Sears on the radio show. So searing techniques with the Sears All right I think you know in reading the reviews of people that are using I think the prime thing if you think that it's too slow right you want to get this series all much closer to the surface of what you're doing. The exceptions are things things that are dry like breads go from like kind of you know totally blind and they can start burning very quickly because there's not a lot of liquids to moderate it so those things you have to be a little more careful with and so typically breads I'll hold raceway says his stuff was that like two and a half inches, three inches, but about that far away to an hour move it around. And you can actually mean I shouldn't say you can actually like hold things and like manipulate it's very you don't have to kind of worry about it. But things like steaks, cheese also usually okay, I'll give you this because I'm gonna have to go to another another question. Here's what I usually do. I get it down fairly close. I do tiny little circles, and I wait for it to start seeing sizzle or bubble or movement. And then I'll move away from it and I'll start it in another zone. And by the time I started getting bubbling in a second zone, I could start moving it back and forth like a welder, kind of creating a puddle, not a puddle, but like kind of creating a zone of searing just like a welder can when you're moving a MIG welder or an arc welder back and forth by you know, melting the rod and, and forming a puddle. And by doing that, you can keep a relatively large area in kind of fine searing fashion. So and that's a lot more effective than like hitting and stopping and, you know, moving you know, moving too quickly, for instance. So the general rule of thumb is, is that for something the size of like a rib steak, you're going to want to do about a minute, minute, minute and a half per side. Cheese, typically, I'll go really close to what starts bubbling, I'll pull back a little bit and zip around. And let's say I'm doing like five burgers. I'll hit one really hard, go hit the next one. And then like start moving around until I'm moving around, and I'm constantly hitting each one for you know, a couple of seconds until they're until they're all cooked, you're gonna get a better crust in terms of like Tech Tech Tech Tech crust on something by hitting it a couple times and letting it rest a little bit in between. So if you're doing like three or four steaks, it's a good idea to kind of not do one all the way to the finish and then do the next one all the way to finish but keep them all little, you know, you know, don't haven't stopped entirely but hit and then come back to you know, the same one at least twice. I find that's the kind of gonna give the best question. Yes. And I can get more, you know, more what's it called if anyone wants to know. Okay. Felipe lament wrote in your book is finally coming out. So stoked. Thank you. I have a sticky question for you. I'm trying to make an alcoholic ice cream for pacojet. I want to retain the raw alcohol taste. I've been using cognac and Calvados. Do you like Calvinists or Calvados? How do you pronounce it? Sounds like I don't care. I don't drink this stuff. Do you like that stuff? I don't think I've ever had it. No, no, the apple brandy. Oh, yeah. Nice. Okay. Okay. She's like, they'll make it in Italy or Switzerland. So I'm afraid. I don't drink it. I don't drink it. So do you have any suggestions on ratios or stabilizers I can use to have a nice consistency. Thank you. Okay, so what I would do is, I would do what I always do when I want something to not, I mean, obviously, for those you that like I don't know you're zoning out because I'm speaking too quickly, or whatever. The problem here is, obviously you had too much liquor, you affect the texture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't want to like one solution, which is the wrong solution. And you can't do it in the package anyway, so it doesn't matter, I guess you could, is to freeze it much colder than you normally would in a pocket, but it's not going to work because when alcoholic stuff melts out, it typically melts out in a weird way. So unlike typical sorbets, I have relatively nice melt profile over alcohol sorbets like these blast out on you know what I mean, just seeing that happen right now. Nice. So what I would do is cheat and same way that I always cheat and I would make a gel and fluid gel with the alcohol. So I would make a portion of the sorbet base kind of normal and then create a gel and fluid gel that you want, I would say total sorbet. Total sorbet, I would go in the ratio of like, no more than half a percent. And that will never melt. So you can spin it and it'll stay like the texture of me it won't melt. It'll stay like the texture of just melted sorbet on the surface of the sorbet. But it'll hold it shape it so in other words, like whatever it is, whatever your liquid base is in it. Don't forget, forget the solids because my recipe doesn't work on that. But whatever the liquid base is half a percent. Remember, you have to boil that and then you can temper stuff into it, let it chill into and then blend it into a fluid gel. And then spin it the pacojet and that should work and it'll be super creamy. You might have to up your flavors a little bit because half percent of Coco f f which is Loisel Joanne is quite a lot and a will mask the flavor somewhat but it'll be smooth and creamy. Right so as you hate Do you like things that are smooth and creamy? Yeah, but you don't like when people describe them as movies. Okay, got a story in from Ross in Aruba. And I wanted us to read this on the air. And I might have to read it quickly because you know, I'm late. Thanks for your help. I look forward to getting the two cereals I hope you better already have them. He does Alright good. As a home cook, I've been convinced by the way I like home cook cook, cook a lot of honoring, Cooking cook, cook a cook. As a home cook. I've become enthralled with suevey cooking in an ANOVA circulator low temperature I'm sure I'm amazed with ease and convenience. At last chicken steaks and other meats cooked to desired level of doneness. Yes, it is a word by the way, without fail. We've become so attached to the cooking that we took the novice circulator on a budget vacation to Aruba. Bought a $5 plastic bucket at a local grocery store and we were cooking we took Zippy is with us because we weren't sure about their availability. By the way, were they available? Could you get the zip locks? And remember people don't buy the cheap zip locks because Mr. Has we had a problem with the cheap ciplox Do not buy it by the freezer ones, the freezer ones we were doing an event the other day and they were leaking at the house. Put your angry face on anyway, because we weren't sure about their availability, we had steaks that could complete that could compete with those available at a rubas high end restaurants before we went to the beach or bar we'd pop the meat in the in the bags, and they'd be ready when we got back to our apartment. More importantly, if we want to do some more snorkeling or have another drink. We could we didn't have to rush back in 10 to the cooking which a good point. If you're snorkeling, by the way, I don't know about the safety of snorkeling and drinking. I'm sure you're drinking responsibly while you're snorkeling. But yes, definitely, you know, if you're under the water, and we're looking around at all the awesome sea life and you lose track of time, a normal state could be ruined. Right, right now. Anyway, we didn't have to rush back to tend to the cooking in the food state fine, and didn't overcooking the circulator. Now we want to try this. Here's all at home, not on vacation. airline security folks may have qualms about such a device. Thank you for your help. Regards, Ross. Notice in Ross, I bring this aerosol with me all the time, all the time on the airport. And occasionally people are like, What is this, and I go it is a cooking device. And they're like, but I unscrew it from the torch and I bring the torch separately. And they look at it a couple times. Look, I also bring Red Hot pokers with me. I always bring those things, you can bring them in check luggage, obviously. But then they're going to search your luggage. I bring them in my carry on because I never bring check luggage to demos because I've had them not show up and then you don't have a demo. So I plan demos around being able to bring stuff in my carry on. So you can do it. But good luck with the home user series. I'll let us know how it works. And then how many minutes we got Jack? Under five under five. Okay. All right. I mean, let me let me hit this quick. What is next week Thanksgiving and the week after? Week after? Okay, so Antoine, I'm going to get your brining question on birds. I'm assuming that's for. That's for Thanksgiving. I'm gonna get that next week, as well as Lee Lee Crawford's explanation of by the way, wrote in about Julia Child and went back and watch her old black and white shows that was from Jean. Oh, that was from Jean Jean.

De G A. And then he How do you say that GN

gene. Anyway, some gene not from anyway, I went back and watched that episode, which one of the reasons I'm a little bit late. Holy crap. I you know, you forget what a badass Julia Child is. You know what I mean? You forget and then you watch it. She might have been a little drunk. I'm not sure. I mean, I know. That's like, whatever. That's the stereo. Yeah, that's her like, you know, that's our stick like she did that way before Hoda and Kathie Lee you know I'm saying or I don't know maybe the same time as Dean Martin did they kind of like you know, kind of a little bit tipsy thing you don't I mean, but such this is such an intense badass. I'm gonna go back and not now you've ruined me I have to go back and and you know read all this so we'll get that I'm going to hit really quickly. Daniel from San Jose wrote about rose petals. I've been making candy rose petals the classic way by coating the rose petals and the thin layer of egg white dipping them in sugar and then leaving them out to dry my problem was be able like to finally chop them up for use in a plated dessert but the egg white sugar always flakes apart from the dried rose petal when it's chopped. Is there any way I can modify the prep so I can drop the candy rose petals without them flaking apart? Thanks. You know I've never tried it but you know the problem is you don't want to heat them that's the issue. You know Johnny Zini used to do a thing where he would dip them in simple syrup and lay them out on a paper towel to drive after he dusted them with sugar but I think the key is maybe let them have the egg white is going to be a problem because the proteins are going to are going to you know kind of crunch up on you but I think if you let them go Danny sick as they sit you know like half dry and then chop them and then let them finish out after after that if you can stop them from the problem. They're going to gum up so you have to sit there and individually chop each rose petal like into a you know you can't even do a shift not because you can't roll it it'll stick right? I don't know it's problematic, but I don't know I tried to think of a surefire way but maybe try Johnny's way instead of with the egg white maybe it'll work now as for other things I'm not going to get to in time let me see Urial and your milk powder he's talking about milk powder in my yard for browning and meats I'm going to get that later and also Alex's bear we didn't like our bear but I'm going to research more about bear if you have a young bear then it's it's you're going to be better off but I'll look more into cooking bear the one time that we cook bear did even taste it says no I don't think is is terrible. But again, young young one is young bear is good. Also divvied with your limits are big question. I'll catch you next time because it is it's not a problem. I could do it. And I just have too many questions to answer but I Miskin a mechanic can inverse Would you call it a diatribe? Yeah. All right. I think he I think he would fairly call it a diatribe. So I'll read that really quickly and then we can discuss it later if people have more questions on okay. Dave and the hammer by extension, if not conspiracy have been champions of low temperature and CV cooking when he started this campaign on the radio. This was still pretty exotic requiring either relatively expensive equipment or internet hacks only a small cadre of enthusiast would employ. That has changed not only because of the promotion of low temp and CV by us and others, but because CV supreme was successful in the mainstream and the cost of an immersion circulator has come way down. I back to no Miku which works well. I assume. This is harsh. I assume BAMs venture Bam is we pops up pot, who you know, one of the founders of I assume bands venture will not survive because since they've started, poly science has come down in price and both the Sancerre and a nova are better rated and available for tuner dollars. By the way, there's new Nomi Kook coming out. So I don't I don't you know, I don't watch a call. I don't play favorites in the in the circulator market, because I'm friends with a lot of these folks. But don't count anyone out yet. And he goes bad news for BAM but great news for consumers out. And emergency regulators now a little pricey for an impulse purchase but clearly inexpensive enough to be a regular consumer product. But the information and education provided by cooking issues in the light are not as available as the products are. Take me as an example. I am not a typical consumer. I listen to cooking issues I have booked by McGee and Keller on my night table on your night table. And you're told to tell her all about that. And do plenty of research how I've even read a hasit plan. Yet with all my attention devotion, I understand the safety issues. I understood the safety issues that are so widely mentioned very poorly. For various reasons, mostly an abundance of caution. I've almost invariably invariably prepared low temperature meals by reaching pasteurization. And I use the quick show method for storing. But even I don't really understand this. If I'm researching pasteurization temp and time. How could this be a big danger I keep hearing about with conventional cooking, you leave food in pots while you eat. You leave it on the counter to cool and you put it in the fridge all the while in the danger zone if the contents of the low temp bag are pasteurized, why isn't that close to canning? It's not close to canning. It's not because you're not killing the spores anyway. Why isn't that close to canning giving me a much wider margin of safety than ordinary prepared food it is but you know I'm not gonna have time to discuss it, but it is anyway. If the bags contents are pasteurized, I would find it plausible to conclude it would be perfectly safe to throw it in the fridge without a quick chill ice bath. This was asked by someone on the air quite a while ago. Dave, in my opinion did not catch the drift of the question and did not answer it. This came to have a considering fish ChefSteps promoted a combination salting in the danger zone and cooking for salmon it was declared safe. And Christiane did a challenge test on it, which is how they figured out it was safe, fine for that specific chef step preparation. But you see plenty of examples of cooking fish well below 130 degrees Fahrenheit, even though I'm using hot water tap method, I don't want to cook all fish to pasteurization all the time. In fact, I never do me personally, Dave, and I want to experiment with textures and the like, how safe is that? What about killing fish parasites. So look at and he says it seems to me the availability of low temp equipment is far outpacing consumer understanding capability. If there's really a serious danger associated with low temperature and CV cooking, as I've heard repeatedly, then I would say there'll be a whole lot of illness arising from this technique at home in the coming years. Best regards can look this is complicated. And part of the fact is that we're never going to come out and we no one is going to come out and say with a relatively new thing. Something that you know might get someone sick even though we all know that people get sick from cooking all of the time. So next time when I get back, I'm gonna just have stars nine maybe if she wants to, she won't she does one. We'll just have like a discussion. Maybe we can get someone on. I don't know if we can get someone on. And we'll just hash out the food safety stuff. My opinion as a cook versus someone who's more, you know, into food safety, their opinion as a food safety expert. Because we're coming from different points of view, we have different acceptable levels of risk and the acceptable level of risk, typically in pasteurization levels is one of supermarket morons walking home with a product in an abuse situation not as someone who's like cooking for their own use at home who has more control over their raw ingredients. So I think like there there are different standards of risk, different standards of what we think the inputs into the cooking are. And those are leading to a lot of confusion, but maybe we can get someone on next week and hash it out. Yeah, nice. All right. We'll try and get them and that'll be next week on the target issues.

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