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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on Thanksgiving Day week. On Haripriya. Network in Bushwick. Good, yeah. In studios usual. Anastasia hammer Lopez a guy Jack White in the booth over there. Who else we got? Vanessa,

who's trailing us today. Food Studies student Hey, yeah,

who stays where? NYU? NYU? Hmm. What style of food studies? What style of food are you studying?

I'm actually also a dietetic intern at Bastyr University in Seattle.

Oh, wow. So you're like bicoastal person there? Yes. Yeah. So okay, so are you you're then focusing on nutrition here at NYU are Nutrition and Food Studies. So the connection between people food and the environment? Yeah. Your your for that connection or against it? Definitely for it. Nice. All right. Very good. All right. Well, welcome to the program. Starts anything good going on? No, we should probably start yet. Well, first tone where you're going for the for the Thanksgiving. I'm going to Ohio in all right. Now let's discuss your role. I mean, you don't have to I for the first time in my life. I'm having Thanksgiving my house. You know, first time ever first time ever first time ever. I was like, you know crap on it. You guys come to our place for a change. So I'm going to do I mean, look many years I've cooked the bird no matter where I was going. In fact, I think for the last I don't know how many years in a row. I've cooked the bird. By the way. Jack, what are you doing?

I'm gonna be at my dad's house. And for the first time I'm contributing sides, so that's nice

sides. You're not gonna Is there a heritage bird involved? There's not no heritage bird. You know, sadly, I don't have one either. Because I didn't ask in time to get one. I'm sure now it's too late.

Why it has one. He beat us.

Why you got yourself a heritage bird. Oh yeah. How many pounds is that sucker 20 Yeah, I'll hold you can do it. What's that? Don't say cook it what are you gonna do to it? Brian it Yeah, well, you know that well, no one asked any bird questions this year? There are some actually we had a couple a couple weeks ago you know there's some a various different ideas but you're gonna Brian and Rose right.

I just thought what's his name? At serious eats Kenji. Oh Lopez, he said never Brian.

Yeah, I know he said that. Yeah, why? Well, it looks anti brighteners and I count you know, many friends among them for instance, in Harold McGee is not big on all over brining for certainly certain of these things. Their theory is, is that the liquid that you're adding isn't necessarily helpful for the flavor and also Brian can be difficult etc, etc, etc. Me I Brian, I do but I tend to do kind of a these days I tend to actually do more of what Kenji says which is just kind of rub salt into the parts that I want to get salty and then kind of wait. Also, you gotta remember it's much easier for me to Brian a bird since usually I rip all the bones out of it anyway and so it looks like a sack of skin like a like a men in black you know, Edgar suit slash you know, sort of like kind of sack of Turkey and then I reconstruct it when I'm going to cook it so it looks like a whole bird again. I'm gonna get it is a whole bird I don't cut the skin I just rip all the bones out like some sort of alien creature so so it's you know, I can do kind of things with it that you otherwise can I'm thinking of injection branding this year actually. I'll figure it out. It'll be easy because I won't have to transport it 100 Miles like I usually do,

but your advice for the regular home cook was not the bone it would be the brine

or you know at least salt the salt the breast me I look I would go for the injection brining frankly, which is what I'm going to be doing this year I don't think I'm going to do the full exoskeleton cuz I just I'm so swamped with with work you know, you know it takes you have to have the exoskeleton be part of your work, or I don't know, I don't know what but I don't have time to do the exoskeleton this year. Although it is probably the best Turkey I've ever made. And I've done it like three times it's always the best but no, I don't think I'll be doing exoskeleton this year. Did you like the exoskeleton? Yep, that's good. All right. Do you guys like Turkey? I love turkey but I prefer Turkey the next day. Started with Turkey fan. I like it the next day to sandwiches What do you like on your sandwich?

They like mayonnaise green stuff. Which the miniature with cranberry sauce

what kind of what kind of green? I don't remember stuff your mom mega green stuff that sounds good. I am not a cranberry on my on my on my turkey thing. I'm mayonnaise, mayonnaise, tomato lettuce, salt pepper and maybe some mustard and pretty much that's it jack your turkey sandwiches

yeah I'm alright on Turkey so so what cranberry are no oh cranberry I'll go fishing primary. Yeah. What? Yes. from white to Yeah, what

about the bicoastal over there? Cranberry or no cranberry on the turkey sandwiches? Yeah, definitely. Yes. I'm the only one who doesn't it's I love cranberry. I have my cranberry next to it. Also like it's the stuffing is the big thing. I mean, really, the turkey is there so you have a large Kavita shirts for stuffing. Although you're you're not allowed to put stuffing and don't want to hear any crap about how I'm gonna give someone some food poisoning. The way I cook the bird you can in fact put the stuffing in because I preheat the I pre pasteurize the stuffing in an immersion circulator before I stuffed it in at a temperature lower than it takes to set the egg whites and then stick it in for the I don't want to hear anything about how I'm going to poison people because I'm not Alright Jack. I don't hear anything. Got it. Alright, let's get some questions start. Oh, by the way, should you have a Thanksgiving based question? Questions? 271-847-2128. That's 718-497-2128 Alex Rodin Dear David, Natasha, Jack and company. My wife recently returned from a visit with a college roommate with some frozen packages. Mark simply bear roast. Don't do this when you're today. The bear currently occupies a prominent place on their wall, I guess you know the body of it, or the head of it, and I was hoping you can suggest some ideas for how to prepare the meat. Many of my fellow cooking issues fans probably remember your previous experiments with bear, Raccoon and beaver. But I was wondering what you would suggest I do with the meat in light of your experience. I have access to a circulator and a pressure cooker. But that's about it on the tech side. Please advise also something when you have some time. I have another question. Earlier summer I attended an event in Toronto, where they spoke I was in fact there where I spoke after the screening of Soylent Green. At that event, somebody asked a question about GMO foods. One of the issues people often worry about when they worry about food. I gave an interesting and nuanced answer and I've heard him similarly allay people's fears about industrial foods, food additives, and many of their other common food fears, as well as dietary concerns like MSG, and salt sodium. I also appreciated Patrick Martin's critique of blind enthusiasm for local foods. Dave, what issues should we worry about? We worry about food and food production. Biodiversity the health of the oceans seems like an obvious and important one. But what other food issues should we actually be concerned about Alex? Hmm, well, Alex, that second one. Like I could go on for like three days and three nights I should probably shouldn't even. I mean, I think there's plenty to worry about. Maybe that should be the subject of my next book. My next book is not going to be cocktails. Stars is waiting for me to actually choose a subject for my next book, so she's gonna have to hear me wonder aloud in October. Yeah, but what are the odds? What are the odds? Zero, like probably less than zero. Like, let's say I were to actually hand in a book in October like what would you do? No, just the subject was you know, such as laughed out loud. Last October, wow. Yeah, the book is due in October. But so if I actually handed in the book in October, would you would you jump off of a bridge or something? I don't know. I just know it never happened. It seems like it's like saying, Well, yeah, it's like saying what would happen if like this table were to suddenly disappear? Without David Copperfield? Yeah. Okay. Well about the bear. Here's the issue. The bear we had sucked. Remember that bears does Yeah, it's terrible. Tasted like, that was the one that tasted like iron nails, right? Yeah. wasn't as bad as the raccoon. No, Raccoon was the worst, the worst. But here's I'm going to tell you. I have spoken to many hunters on this issue. And they swear on stacks of whatever book you choose holy, that, that young bear is delicious, delicious, delicious stuff. I've never had it. So I don't know, I will say this, that different animals is like Rosemary's Baby, every pregnancy is different. Every animal that is kind of a wild animal is going to cook I think a little bit differently, it's going to taste a little bit different depending on how old it is. What it was eating, that's definitely going to affect the flavor of the meat and the fat that's in it. You know what condition the animal was in, when it died, how long the meats been around, and then what kind of cut of meat you have. So certain cuts of meat, you know what's going to happen because you've cooked them a lot like you know, certain cuts of deer and whatnot, elk, all this kind of stuff. But with something like a bear now do cities, it was frozen, right? I think it's it was frozen, it's been frozen. So first thing you have to do is when you're going to cook them, choose when you're going to cook, and then kind of let it defrost and check your drip loss. That's always what you want to do when you have a frozen piece of something. And you don't really know how good the freezer was it was in or how it was frozen. Let the sucker thaw out and see what kind of a drip loss you get out of it. If you get like, he's like a huge sack of like, you know, like pinkish liquid, then it's been subjected to some some mechanical damage in the freezer from freeze thaw cycles. And then that's going to limit what you can do in terms of whether it's going to make a delicious whole muscle cut of meat or not. Right, that's your first thing to assess. Second, take a piece of the meat off of the outside, assuming it's not freezer burn or anything, take a piece of meat off the as a small and then just cook it in a frying pan, and then assess the flavor of it and see where it is right. After you do that. Look at the piece all over, right. And then if you think that it could be a tender cut, right, then slice off a small piece of it, throw it in a bag and determine kind of where you want it. Do you want it to be like pork now remember, bear while bear can African Gnosis so you don't want to eat raw, see whether you want to take it like on the steaks, I like 57 or whether you want it a little bit like more like on the porque side like 6061 62 Celsius, let it cook for only like an hour or so then cut off a piece of it and taste it and see the texture. Now, if it's really tough, and you feel that that toughness is from connective tissue, then let it ride for a day. And then taste it if it's getting better, let it ride a second day. And then if it's getting that, and that's how I figured out with a very small piece of meat, kind of what's going on, you're not going to get a lot with flavor. Because with a small piece of meat, you're not gonna be able to test but then you'll be able to see what's kind of going on. And you should be able to accomplish this before the piece that you've thought that you want to cook in its entirety goes bad. And that's really if you have an unknown quantity if you haven't cooked a lot of the animal before. That's really how I would proceed. Make sense? Yeah. Okay.

Got a caller on line six. line six

caller you're we actually have a line six. No. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, how you doing? That's good. Just real quick question for you. I recently got some Ultra spurs M. And I'm familiar with Ultra spurs three. That's what I've always been using. But I have a supplier in town here who could get me em for super cheap and I could get way more of it. Is there any major differences or setbacks as far as three of them go?

Well, my understanding of them and bear in mind that haven't used them a lot, side by side, right? Is both of them are spurs so any, any spurs base starch, is pre cooked and also agglomerated so that it's easy to mix into won't clump up when you try to mix it in. Alright, so that's so right there. You know what kind of family it is. Now. I think that the difference between the three and the M. I think one of them is potato. And I think one of them is tapioca based, right? Or no, one of them's corn. And one of them's tapioca. It's one of those things. Yeah,

yeah, the three is tapioca and the

Okay, so when you're looking at tapioca starch versus So, the difference in functionality, I think you're mainly going to notice because one might have more or less thickening power than the other, and I can never remember which one thickens more corn or, or tapioca, right? But this is easy to look up. So the fundamental difference between the two of them is fundamentally going to be the difference between corn starch and tapioca starch. So I would guess that the tapioca one in higher concentrations is probably going to be more elastic. Also a lot depends on if you're going to do a lot of Cook, after you put disperse, and if you're going to do a lot of extra cooking, some starches, and again, I haven't looked at the table, so I can't remember which is which, but some starches will thin out faster if you cook them a long time, especially in the presence of acid. So I think the big differences you're gonna notice is one might take a little more thickening one more, take a little more to thicken, and the other could be substantial. I don't know, I have to look at the curves. And the other thing to bear in mind is that one might be more processed stable than another but other than that, I think, you know, if you're just doing it to add a little bit of thickness to a sauce, I think you're going to be alright.

Okay, so since you're saying that, basically you can kind of compare it side by side with the tapioca and the corn. You think that the corn one would have some looping at it?

Well, that's interesting. I mean, me more than tapioca. I don't know. I mean, like if you're having weeping with, I've never I've never used tapioca in. I mean, I don't stock it in my house like cookie, like tapioca starch for cooking. So I don't really have a lot of experience on whether you get less than a recess with the tapioca then with not. And, you know, I would look up and see if you want to know about like, weeping, I would look up which one they recommend for pie fillings. Because if you know, like, one of the good things for these things is you can you can mix it in with, you know, with your fruit, you won't get any clumping. And then when you cook it up, it'll thicken out on you, but you don't need to worry about functionalizing and cooking it out. I don't know I don't know whether I have last week and I'll try I can try to look it up. If you if there's someone tweeted at me that this you tweeted me a while ago the difference, but I gotta look up the curves and see what whether or not one has less than a recess than the other. But I think like a simple search, search on like, ultra spurs, you know, and then Senator recess or weeping and they'll tell you which one's best to kind of holding it back.

Okay, yeah, I'll do that for sure. Thanks for watching.

All right, have a good one. All right, we see go back to my phones back in that most does where it wants to turn off every 10 seconds. Okay. We have a question in from a divvied on lemon sorbet with a neon and SDV right. Not like, unless it's Italian. Which case is diving in, right? Like skinnin. Just convenience could be named Batman. What a jerk. I am. First of all, Dave, I would like to say that I Just plowed through liquid intelligence and it's brilliant. No thanks. The only problem is that I told too many bartender friends about it and they all suggested it. Give them a copy as a present. This Christmas. I'm going to be bankrupt. Please bankrupt yourself by buying my book. I'm just kidding. It's not nice right now. I'm just kidding you. No kidding. Okay, my question is about juicing lemons and lemon sorbet. I developed the recipe for lemon sorbet. I'm pretty happy about a microplane lemon zest and a simple syrup. Which as soon as 5050 There's a es 50 water and 50 Various sugars and stabilizers to close versus a complicated simple syrup. This is not actually simple syrup. What you call simple syrup is sucrose glucose, syrup powder. dextrose maltodextrin inulin had to give stars the Toots in Newlands? What's in sweet, sweet. In ulan, Xanthan, and guar gum says kind of we should call that complicated sugar. Where am I? It's good, good, good, right. I let it infuse it fresh 10 for 24 hours then filter at freshly squeezed and filtered lemon juice plus water and churn in a batch freezer. I like to do what makes sense. But it's not for it's not for. It's not for cocktails, it's for sorbet. You know, I'm saying I'm saying I like to be extra lemon flavor and slight bitter aftertaste, the zest is I tried to squeeze the lemons at the very last possible moment to reduce oxidation. It served me well until a few days ago when I noticed that my lemons were noticeably funky. Like that's a I just read George Clinton's memoir. So noticeably funky to me sounds like a compliment because I just, you know, went through 250 pages of like the funkiest man ever. How was it? GEORGE Clayton's memoir. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, you know, it goes like, like, the first two thirds of it are, well, like, you know, when it's going through all this stuff that's like super famous, you know, like, like Funkadelic and Funkadelic. In parliament, it's kind of awesome to kind of see what was going on, where they're just like, well, we want to see if we could like do an album, we were high on acid, or you're talking about like, the weird like back and forth between the bands and how they're trying to keep everything together and how he started with Doowop and ended up with kind of funk and, and he's very, very frank about kind of the commercialism of it and trying to like hit like what people wanted at the same time as trying to plow your own way. It's really interesting. And then you know, also interesting when it gets into stuff where I kind of lost track like the, you know, after post atomic dog stuff in but the last section is just a diatribe against the music basically, the way that music industry is like full of crooks and thieves, and stuff like that. And you know, it ends with all the people in P funk in the P funk family that have died, you know, you know, because you know, they're getting old and plus they lived hard. Now you got Allison Allison, my fantasy is going through my head, it's all in play into my head. Alright, alright, gotta go back. Funky here. Not a good thing. So we're not going Am I good funk? Bob gotta get back to the question noticeably funky I always start by remember we're talking about survey here stuff. I always started by squeezing this acid lemons to avoid waste and then squeeze the fresh wants to reach the amount of juice I need. This time the juice from the naked lemons. ie the ones that appealed was terrible. Terrible terrible depending on how hard I was pressing while juicing. I had various flavors ranging from overstepped camera mile T. Do you like camera Mila camera mile? Doesn't matter. You don't care about you check. Are you a meal or mile I usually say kind of meal meal am a meal man myself, I wonder whether that's a regional thing to heat his strawberry, which would be good to rotten eggs, which is not good. The dependence on pressure seems to indicate that they were rotting or oxidizing from the outside in. I ended up throwing it all away and using fresh ones. My question is, are we the lemons bad in the first place? Are the 24 hours in the fridge with no peel on them? Somehow ruin them? I have peeled and grated lemons in the fridge all the time. And I'd like to think that it would have noticed if it had happened before. But I can't be sure can i If leaving peeled lemons in the fridge is bad idea. Is there a way to zest lemon juice in the same day? Should I force some fuses here with nitrous to be able to finish the sorbet the same day if I juice the lemons and backpack that juice would oxidize in 24 hours? Can I freeze the juice I plan on using it sorbet, and where I would rephrase it without heating Any other thoughts or suggestions? Thanks and keep rocking to view. Okay, here's a couple of things. One. If you're going to serve the sorbet right away, then you know by all means use like super fresh lemon juice, right? If it's going to sit for a couple of days anyway, then I think you might want to actually do the technique where you take the lemons from fresh through evil back to a different but good again. And what I mean by that is like the same way you do with lime juice where you do like a cordial where you actually take the juice and cook it with the sugar and the zest. So I know that sounds weird, you cook it right. And then when you cook it, it goes through being that evil detergent, it is something that still has some of those detergent notes. But it's good again, because it's more of a cordial and cordials we like even though they're not fresh lemons, but it's not going to have the fresh lemon flavor. If you want fresh lemons, you kind of have to do it the day of I don't know that you're gonna have that much luck you can do with a nitrous. But I think what you're going to want to do is just keep doing it the way you're doing with this proviso lemons are. So like a lot of times we'll get lemons and like I know what a batch of lemon smells like when one or two that was about to go bad if they're not stored in the walking, right. So are in the fridge. So you might have had some lemons that were about to go off anyway. So if you're resisting them and you notice that they were noticeably soft, then I would just not I would dispute with like juice that lemon right away or throw it away also, like they're really kind of perishable once they're once they're tested right because they're now super porous. So if they're totally dry, like if you let them dry out a little bit before you put them in the fridge, then they should be okay overnight, but if they're wet and tacky, and then they're in a big box and it kind of packed together and it takes a long time for them to kind of cool down or if you're not cooling them at all. Like I have seen ones getting noticeably effed up and funky and it's usually from the outside so what you do is you smell your lemons before you do it. I don't think that the inside of the lemon is rotting out so I think you just got like a confluence of bad events and got unlucky What do you think says all right, she's like she just stepped up and stepped up. Okay. We do the second All right. This is just a comment from something we talked about before about ramen noodles. This is from Michael mother masters of sound ramen question. Michael mothers masters of sound I like that. Hello shipping container wizards. I agree that instant ramen is delicious. I really liked the results from rehydrating instant ramen noodles, then pan frying in oil with the contents of the seasoning pack. Optionally a beaten egg can be poured in if you look to noodle set again into a disk rather than moving them around. Keep on moving on. Michael mother masters of sound right Robin? Like why hate on the instant ramen noodles? There. A feat there? Yeah. I love it. It's since when are you on board? She just fucking messing with me. No, no, I think they are. Yeah. All right. I almost almost I was so unused to stop agreeing with me on anything. That like I almost almost lost the family show. Okay. You Joe calls in. Hey, Dave hammer and cookie sheets.

This live call. We got a caller caller on seven.

line seven. Caller you're on the air. Hey, that me? Yeah. Cool. You actually we actually only have one line. We actually have one line, but we like to make it say that we have three. All right. Yeah. Sorry. You're on the air. All right. Hey, how

you doing Dave? You guys are all great. I just want to tell you. I can hear an echo to it. That's normal. Yeah.

So it's my first time calling in. So my question is kind of cooking and related for Thanksgiving. I've got some really cool heavy gauge stainless steel drums fit five gallon I'm looking to make a smoker out of them. Okay, I was thinking if I lined it with some kind of stone that might help with the heat capacity. Anything I Need to Know about looking at what kind of stones to use also probably down the road at some point I need to make a pizza oven out in the backyard. So what do I need to know about stones? Is there a preference sheet capacity cook for the kind of use concrete pavers? Should I get clay? Well, your thoughts don't use

concrete pavers is an excellent question. I actually am going to research this again in the next couple of months for the spring because I'm going to be building a bread oven in spring confining going to get a piece of dirt outside the city where I can do whatever the hell I want, which is good. But the last time I researched this in earnest, well, this is the second part, your question was unfortunately, like 715 or so years ago, and the book was by the two authors were last name wing last name Scott. And it was called the bread builders something right? And in that book is and I'm sure it's outdated, but how outdated can a bread oven be right? A stone bread oven, that book and maybe Jack can look up the exact title of it? Well, I'm here is fantastic. And it takes you kind of soup to nuts on like, what to buy and how to build a stone bread oven or pizza oven. And it was, like I said, I'm sure there's like newer references out there, but was kind of an awesome book and an eye opener for me in general. And it also is fun because it highlights a bunch of people that have built them or they're using them commercially. And so I think it's a good read. Again, I haven't read in a long time, and I'm sure it's outdated. But that was like the book back then. So I would definitely take a look at it. It's not too expensive bread

builders hearth, hearth loaves and masonry ovens. Yeah.

What is it still like liked on Amazon? Does it have positive stars on a check? Yeah, four and a half now. All right, well, I'm sure there's a newer book. Now, when it comes to lining a 55 gallon drum. That's something that I've done more recently. 155 gallon drum more recently, here's what you got to look out. For one, I would burn the hell out of it beforehand to get rid of any paint or anything on does it naked?

Oh, it's a stainless steel pharmaceutical food grade and it's clean. And I had to clean before I took it. So it's good.

Okay, cool. Now, there's a couple of different things. If you don't want to go super permanent, you're going to want to always get kind of bricks that are meant to be heated refractory style bricks, right. And so for that, you're going to want fire bricks, because they're super easy. You can score them and break them with a chisel when you want to put them in. And they're super cheap, right? And so you can do a layup with those things, and then pack in between them with refractory cement. And then you know, you're kind of good to go, you can put a hole in the bottom of it for an air vent and put it in and you know, you're set. Whereas the last time I did it, I didn't have time to do anything. We were Nastasia and, and some of it was a cliff and Piper and I we all we built a tandoor in at the Sei. And we did it with a with a like a big flower pot. And the problem with using something like that is they're going to shatter. Even if they can take the heat, they're going to shatter eventually. So the firebricks are going to give you a little bit of with like a layer of refractory cement is going to give you a little bit more leeway. Other ways you could go is you could build like a fort like pour bottom cast the bottom, drill a hole right with refract by make sure it's always refractory like refractory cement, pour it in, you don't really care if that cracks very much. And then you can build a formwork. And you can even put some insole, you can put some metal wire mesh on the inside to hold it. And then pour almost like you're pouring formwork concrete with a two minute I've done that as well. But I think you might want to just do something simpler like fire bricks to start to make sure that it's cooking the way you want. Because that you could break down and reorganize if you didn't like it, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I like that idea. That's good. Yeah. And then you can cast a lid, if you want, you can just cast like a lid. Or you could buy a you could buy you know, around around pizza stone if you want and, you know, masonry drill through it to make like a lift for something like this. And you could have a lid for it that way. Cool. All right.

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Go and get that book. Another quick note for you guys. Just real quick. I heard on your last ketchup episode, I've listened to all of your episodes, and I've listened to this as my second one live. So just you know what a lot of fans that don't talk to you live I'm usually about a week or two behind my commute a lot shorter now.

Alright, good. Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you're listening live. Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. You're gonna want to test with the firebricks on the if you're going to use fire bricks or any sort of insulation, you're going to want to test to see how long it takes for the outside of the barrel to get too hot for you to be comfortable with and adjust like the thickness that you're going to want to go so firebrick, you know transmits heat at a certain kind of rate and you might want to do like a you know, sometimes you'll like on the Sears wall we use a very, very light, light insulation all the way around it so that it doesn't transmit heat nearly so the denser something is typically For a given amount of heat conduction center material has, typically the denser it is the, the stronger it will be, but the faster it'll transmit the heat through. So just want to make sure that you that you know that you're, it's not transmitting so much heat to the outside that ends up being a problem. So you got to figure out whether you're talking about one layer two layers, or maybe a lighter refractory layer around the inside before you put the firebrick down. Okay,

great. Thanks to

all right then and happy Thanksgiving. Hey, you too. All right. Okay, Joe wrote in. He says I make pretzels quite a bit, which is good. compressors are delicious. I like pretzels quite a bit. There they are, like, you know, they're kind of like you can't be an Arnold without liking pretzels. It's kind of a thing. It's like Booker, my, you know, my older son came back he's like, Dad, I don't like pretzels anymore. I was like, that's a lie. You're lying to me because we're like related like, you know, you look like me like we have the same DNA. Therefore you like pretzels. So it's like, I you know, you like pretzels. I like pretzels. My dad like pretzels. My grandpa like pretzels. My great uncle Luke worked in a pretzel factory during the Depression. They come from Pennsylvania we eat pretzels. That's what we do. You're Arnold you'd be pretzels. Okay, me pretzels quite a bit, but I find that the pretzel salt will absorb into the bread over the course of the day leaving the bread with that. Leaving the bread without that pleasant salt crunch and considerably less attractive. Hmm, a soft pretzels here. By the way, I live in New York City, right? I love it. We are kind of known for having our pretzels on the street. They universally suck. They're universally wretched. You're in I mean, like the standard pretzel. Like, mustard. Mustard. Yes. But they're like they're they're the gin and tonic of street foods because a street dog whether it's filthy or not, is delicious. It just is you know what I mean? You know whether the guy whether he wiped his hands are washed himself before he served you the hot dog. The hot dog tastes good. To pretzels. One of two things happens they're all they pack them into those little boxes sometime in the morning. Right and they have no way to properly store a pretzel the way that they do a hot dog they store the hot dog in hot dog water. And the hot dog water keeps the hot dog at optimum temperature optimum moisture and optimum hot dog flavor. Basically from now until the next Ice Age. They're good. The bonds aren't hot, and so they're fine. You know what I mean? pretzels that keep them hot. But they're either completely desiccated, in which case like they're this awful in between thing, they're not a crunchy pretzel and they're not a soft pretzel. There's some sort of the district to make me sad. Like, they make me just so sad that they can use you know, it's not even the three bucks you know, they cost three bucks. Now some places. Yeah, if you go to a museum anywhere near a museum, they're like three bucks now.

Well, Madison Square Garden, they're probably like four. Yeah, yeah. What, uh,

well, oh my God, by the way, you know, as a mascot. I was at Penn Station, but Madison Square Garden yesterday. And these This couple was like, you know, taking all these like tourist photos. I was like, You're standing in front of the ugliest building in all of Manhattan. You could have picked any building in Manhattan other than this one to do your tourist like antics. But why the hell would it be that one? Which one right outside of Penn Station? Oh, by masses. Like oh, like across the street from the Kmart. They would have been better off shooting them in front of the Kmart than shooting in front of Penn Station. And there they aren't like and like the taxi guy and I were just laughing like what the hell is wrong with these people? Anyway? Pretzels, I'm sure they're $4 there. I don't know. The other extreme is this thing that you describe. And it's also a problem with salt bagels, which is why I saw bagel you can really only order the morning it's made take it home and eat it right away is that if the bread still has any moisture left to it, it will get absorbed by the salt. The salt will weep out and you'll get that really ugly wrinkled, like remember the old guy from poltergeist that sort of look on the outside of your pretzel, which is a nightmare. So now to the question. I'm using Jeffrey Hellman's recipe with a course pretzel salt as applied to the bread. Immediately after the lie dip which is at a fortress of memory. You got to do alkaline with pretzels. So to get that darkness otherwise it just tastes like bagels which is a mistake. Although What does anyone make a pretzel bagel? I'm sure they do. That'd be delicious. They make pretzel buns now, but it gets a bagel. And take note folks should money dripping from dripping from the microphone. Like it which is a 4% concentration. Is there anything I can do to avoid this without impacting the taste texture look of it. Or perhaps there'll be a way to apply the salt right before service. I plan to make a batch early in the morning and serve for Thanksgiving dinner eight to 12 hours later. Thanks, Joe. Okay, look, here's the deal. I went to a place it was Washington DC where they have like the worst art for their food trucks and they're all made by the same terrible person and not a bad human but that artists and they look terrible and everyone their stores their pretzels saltless and then wipes it was some sort of a mixture and then into the salt. And it was terrible. But that's what I recommend doing any Even though it's horrible, here's what I would do. If you don't mind kind of messing with the outside a little bit, I what I would do is I would take the pretzels and I do this when I do, like, come on back like you know the the buffalo like the beef on VEC that knock you with caraway seeds and salt. What I would do is take the pretzels, make sure that they stay nice and moist. Don't let them dry out, right? And then like a little more than even normal. Don't let them kind of flash off a little bit because you're gonna hit them again, then I know this is cheating. Someone's gonna get mad at me. I don't care really. I would do like an egg wash like, like, like like 5050 egg white water, beat it up. Then brush it on the presses at the last minute to put the salt back over top, just enough to whet the top. Throw it back in the oven, fairly high heat for just a couple of minutes to flash off the moisture from the egg and to get it all set the pretzel the salt will stick. I know this because I've done it before. It's going to work for you and I think that's the best way to keep everything together. Yeah. Okay. Paul Peterson wrote in about Tempe Do you like Tempe or Tempe? Tempe, Tempe Jack a or II Tempe Arizona. I guess

I see Tempe and Allison's here and says the same. Tempe Tempe. All right.

Tippett, and a few questions on vegetarian proteins, though, I realized that short notice for today's episode, but it's actually from two weeks ago, so it's no problem. No rush, I was curious if there's any advantage to suevey for producing Satan. Typical Satan recipes involved mixing high gluten flour with water flavor at is we have to get all the starch out first name it whatever. And then either boiling for about an hour in water broth or roasting basically the same amount of time, I'm wondering if the proteins set up at a lower temperature and a saison could then be bagged with some broth and cook with a circulator. For longer times, I don't think there's going to be that much of an advantage really to using a circulator. I don't mean Look someone writing I tried to look on Arbor, voracious and see whether he's done a lot of work with it. I don't know whether any shepherds done a lot of work with it, I don't see that the temperature control is going to be a big advantage here. However, vacuum bagging could be a big advantage because you can use smaller quantities of things to do Boyle's and you can keep flavors more concentrated. Also, you can lock volatiles in without boiling them off. So I could see a situation here where vacuum bagging would be a big advantage. But I don't know if you're gonna get a big advantage from actual temperature control. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. And I willing to be told otherwise by someone who actually makes that a lot. Okay. Next, I'm wanting to produce my own tambay. But all the recipes that can find require adding a temporary culture, but never discuss how to reuse or grow one's own culture from scratch, or from a small amount of starter culture. Well, there are, there are some things on the web on how to use a small amount to do it. So I'm not gonna get it. I'm gonna start with either one. Or their food safety issues. Issues, such that growing my own culture could potentially be dangerous, or is it just too much of a hassle? And it's easier quicker to to continually buy us temper culture? Thanks, Paul Peterson. Okay. So, first thing you got to know is that so you've had temporary right, so temporary, what it is, is you take the What are you looking at? Getting kicked off? We got a couple minutes back