Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

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Hey, I'm Jimmy Carboni. From dear sessions radio. You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you liked this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on heritage radio network at Roberta's pizzeria where in Bushwick. I'm joined as usual witness Tasha the hammer Lopez how're you doing? Stars good? Yeah. Yeah. You know, stars has been busy these days working on marketing stuff for this this this this years? How's it going? There's there's 18 Fine. Yeah, it's doing right actually. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Should we getting another shipment in hopefully, like march right? Yeah, March and hopefully no promises because I can't promise anything because I'm not building this stuff myself like stars and I don't have the ability to build them ourselves. Which is why we can't promise dates but hopefully in that shipment will also come the steak decorators people for those of you that we owe steak decorators to so I'm very excited about that. Anyways, we also are joined with our Master Blaster of engineering jackings Lee Hello. Oh, nice to see when you're actually running it you can put the reverb on whenever you want. How you doing? I'm feeling a little under the weather but I'm alright. Yeah, that we need the reverb you need the reverb to get yourself pumped up there.

I can do a lot of things to my voice on here. Did you know that now let's see somebody

can do this. What the what we do that again?

Whoa, man,

I got some tricks left

right now. So like what's interesting about that one is it's not temporally shifted. It's just pitch shifted. So it's not like what they used to do with like Funkadelic where they actually would just speed the track up by like one or two you know Right right right. Oh Man Can you can you go the other way can you go helium? Do it while I oh my god you can be the Yonkers raceway guy now. That's true. Oh my god. We're gonna need to okay, we're not going to do this to you people like live while you're listening. But we're going to come up with a choreography of craziness that we're going to we're going to start with no cooking. Yes, yes. We're gonna do like, like up and down like, oh my god, we can do all sorts of Parliament arrangements. Oh, God, we have to come up with our own kind of P funk style mythology. Like, you know, stars is like vegan face devoid of funk. Devoid of funk. So anyway. Alright, so this week, what do we do everything we're going to think especially once we get to mellow week, nice although Oh, I am going to be asking requests for people because over the next couple of months before the spring, I am going to be finally, finally after like 20 years, and finally going to be building an outdoor kitchen. Oh, yeah, right. So I need some I need first of all, there's going to be a deep fryer out there because I put my fryer where my mouth is, you know what I'm saying? I tell other people to put an outdoor fryer and I'm going to put it out to a fryer and, but I think that might be the only gas fired thing I have out there. I'm going to maybe put a gas assist on the firepit. But check out what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have a I'm gonna have a standard firepit right. But I also want integrated into this big thing, a tandoor. You know, Lucas, longtime listener, Lucas and museum supporter. He's building a tandoor right now. And a and a bread oven. Maybe as much as I ribbed them maybe Kip ACWA style bread oven. So a bread oven, you know, masonry, retaining heat masonry and firepit tandoor. And here's the last one. This is the unusual one, because it was everyone builds a tender outside, I'm gonna put it particulate and that's son of a gun. So a particular is the Roman kind of cooking platform. So what it's weird, it's outdoors. It looks like a fireplace, right? So it's like, looks like a mantel, like a flat thing. And underneath it is, is an arch shaped thing that looks like a fireplace. Right? Right. So it's like, it's like imagine, like a little mini Arc de Triomphe with like a flat tabletop on it without all the, you know, the ornamentation and crap, right. But here's the weird Roman thing is that they don't build a fire in the arch, and cook an arc, they store wood in the arch, and they build the fire directly on top of the table surface. And they cook on this table surface. And years ago, Johnny Xenia, and I did a, like a video shoot, where we were imitating Roman cooking and we built one like a particular and we were cooking on top of it. And I actually really liked it. It's kind of fun, because, you know, like, instead of like, reaching into a fire pit or reaching into an oven, it's like, the fire is literally right there. And you can move around it and like, all the way around it, and you can like shift stuff around and kind of a cool way. So I kind of liked it. So I'm gonna do that. Because you know what, because I can, because I freaking can. And another thing I'm doing, we've talked about before I get to questions. Oh, by the way, should you have questions? You can always call them in to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. So I like espresso. I love espresso. Espresso is good. Do you like us presents to us or? But do you drink it straight? No, you drink like lattes or you drink like macchiato. What do you drink? Mr. Coffee? No. Espresso. You said espresso when you're going to have an espresso beverage at all? Do you like straight espresso? Okay, so anyway, I don't really like it's not that I don't like it. I'm not I don't go out of my way for like super drip or like, you know, pour overs or pour over sounds that come over to me I know. It's like super popular. Now we had a good one at that Japanese style coffee place. It stars stars gave up because it just took forever took for freaking ever. But I'm fine with that. You know, I enjoy all this stuff. And I enjoy but really my heart's in espresso. But I haven't had a chance to update my espresso game in many many years because I had a spending chi Bosch dropped on me, you know, and because I already had a fairly decent setup. So now I'm also in you guys will regale you with the stories when it happens. I'm updating my sprint my espresso right now the trick with espresso. The mistake that people make right, espresso and I've said this a billion times is all about control and repeatability of a fairly small range of variables. But it turns out it's more difficult than you think to control them all very well. So I updated my my roasting setup because you know high roast coffee says you know I'm trying to save money now. So I went back to roasting my own coffee. And I use what's called a whirly pop so you know that you know the popcorn maker that you put on the stove and you twist it and it goes in it pops and it's this aluminum Morley pop thing. So a lot of people I went I used to pop with air popcorn poppers. I had dedicated air roasters and I burned out every single one that I ever had every single one that burnt out, air at the the whirly pop it don't ever burn out. It just doesn't burn out, you know, and they've superseded that, you know, with home roasters. Now they have home roasters now that almost act like mini drum machines that are awesome, but I can't afford them. whirly pop is like 15 bucks. Right? But you know what I hate about the worldly pop, the whirly pop, you have to crank it all the time. So like, let's say, all of a sudden your nose starts to run. Can you go get a Kleenex now? No, because you have to turn it all the time. Because if you don't turn it all the time, it's going to burn. If something else happens if the phone rings, can you answer the phone? No, no, you can't. Because if you do, it'll burn. Can you make a cup of coffee while you're doing it? No. Like, can you take the last stuff that you had while you're roasting the new stuff and make no right? Which sucks? It's terrible. And it's like 10 or 12 minutes of time when you could sit there and do nothing And then another couple of minutes cooling it down afterwards like putting the beans back and forth after you roast him. So I took, you know stars and I have an Ultimaker for Booker and DAX for prototyping. So I probably went off the reservation and I didn't really use it for work in this application, but I printed out a little housing chopped off the end of the whirly pop thing left a little, little bit of the handle that you crank on it, it chopped off enough so I could get a straight piece, you know, because the handle is bent if you could picture it in your head, chopped it off. And then I put a little like 12 volt DC motor I got on Amazon for like six bucks, and put it on there printed out like a case it fit around and held it onto the handle so it wouldn't spin. Now that suckers electric. Oh, yeah. So now like for like eight bucks or something, I have an electric wordly pot. And now I can you know, listen, never roast. Never roast coffee on a stove and leave it unattended. I'm not saying you did. But I can now blow my nose, make a cup of coffee, move around, like get a drink of water while I'm doing it. This is so much more civilized. I can't believe it took me years to do this. But it's all because you know how you know how you don't do anything for a long time you stay in st stasis, right? And then all of a sudden, you get a kick in the butt and you just do everything all at once. Well, it's like that with the coffee. So because I'm getting this new place, I need a new coffee grinder. Right now the coffee grinder I have is called the rancilio Rocky and it's like at the time it was you know, I couldn't believe I was spending that kind of money on a grinder. It was like 300 bucks or 350 or something. And it was the highest kind of level grinder that any home jockey was getting. Because this was like 12 years ago, 1012 years ago, something like this. MC 12 Maybe, and maybe more. Geez, I might have gotten before Booker was born. I don't remember anyways, it was kind of like it, you know. But now people are getting much kind of higher level grinders. But no one is well, that's not true. There's plenty of rich people out there. But not very many people now are buying the highest level of grinder like the Titan series are called grinders like the very large ones with a very large birds in them. And it turns out, they make just, you know, everyone who uses them says they make superior espresso, they're up. They're huge. And they're expensive, like 1000s of dollars, right? So am I gonna buy that?

No, I'm not gonna buy that. What am I crazy gonna buy. But it you know, everyone spends all their money on the espresso machine, but not on the grinder, which is a huge, huge error. Because the world's greatest espresso machine with a crappy grinder, you're very limited in what you're going to produce in terms of quality espresso. So it turns out that there is this lunatic company called orphan espresso out of Idaho. Right. And it's a husband, wife, team, I think they're husband and wife. And they just make these crazy grinders that have really high quality burger sets in hand grinders. So they make unfortunately, it's always out of stock because they don't really give a crap. It's called the pharaohs. And I can't get one right now because they're out of stock. And what happens is, is that they get the parts in for like 40 or 50 of them, they put it on and they sell out like like this, and then when they're gone, it's like and they never tell you it's going to happen. And people understand that because you know what, they probably hate doing customer service. I'm with them. You don't I'm saying? So I'm not blaming them. It's just I wish I could get one you know, so they have a grinder set. First of all this grinder called the Pharisee orphans bristle Ferris it's only $245 Which seems like oh, that's a lot. But the I can't buy just a bird because I looked into DIY and one. I can't buy the burrs for less than like 150 So I don't know how they're building the whole grinder for to $245 because they're building a grinder that has the same Berset in it. It's called Kony is the name of the grinder maaser Kony. And it's it's like a I think it's like a $4,000 grinder or something like this. And for $245 you can get that same grind quality, it just put a little elbow grease into it I got there next down in line one because that one's always in stock called the Lido too, and I have to say my espresso quality has jumped up and might have to get them from my home reg. Anyway, later I'll talk about because I'm finally going to pimp out the rancilio Silvia which is you know, the, the kind of it's kind of the 39 mark of espresso machines and that everybody you know everyone kind of tricks out the the Silvia because it's really easy to trick out. So everyone's done PID, which is know the temperature control loops, and people have done everything to it. So I'm never I'm not going to be treading on any new water in it. But I'll go through the kind of modifications that I've done to Silvia and I'll report back as it happens, but that's probably gonna take a couple of months because I'm only going to be doing it in dribs and drabs here and there anyway, so that's my coffee report and my my other reports we get onto some a quest he owns. Yeah. Okay. Steven hoppy. He says last name, pronounced hop E if you care to know which I do. I like that hoppy. But like, like with a capital E, which I also like, like because we're it's, it's H O P dash E that the capital E means it's pronounced e like Eazy E, right? Happy anyway, from Chicago writes in about centrifuges. Hey Dave, nice to see Jack and anyone else who might be present, no one only got the hard course hard course. I'm hoping to purchase a centrifuge that I hope to use in a bar, I'm in the process of developing and found what looks to be a decent one for sale at a good price. It's for those of you that know it's a made by Fisher and it's the Fisher's were really a catalog, they don't really make anything. I think that's my impression of them. But it's about 1000 bucks, which for three liter centrifuge is pretty good. Anyway. So here's here's the question. There are a couple of things about this model that gives me pause. For one, as you can see, if you follow the link, you can't because you're on the radio, and I'm not gonna give you guys the link, because if they give you the link, then maybe someone else would buy it out from underneath Steven, and that would not be fair, would that be fair, would not be fair. It only does 3000 times the force of gravity. And I know that you use a centrifuge that gets to 4000. On top of that this model is not refrigerated. I think that the lower G force will just mean the product will take more time to form a puck. But I don't know how much longer and if this will be a problem if purchased. This will be used in San Juan, Puerto Rico never been. There have been? I'd like to go. Would you like to go someone I know it was just in Puerto Rico paper. I didn't know he was in Puerto Rico was in Puerto Rico and he worked with us. No, I mean, I know someone who just like literally just got back from Puerto Rico. Someone Booker indefinitely anyway. And I have a slight concern about the product heating up too much. In Puerto Rico, I get you if it's going to take much longer for put formation in a hot humid environment. Does this seem like too large a caveat to make the purchase? Thanks for the help. And for every thing else you do listening to cooking issues has inspired and emboldened me to give up cabinetry and take on bar management cabinet. I think cabinetry is a great profession. Man. I'm not saying you should go back to it. But a lot of honor and doing good woodwork. You know what I mean? Yeah, I like good woodwork. Cheers, Steven from Chicago. Although I guess in the future shortly, you know, we'll be in San Juan. So here's my thoughts. So for those of you out there that don't have the link, this is a spinning bucket centrifuge. And remember, centrifuge is separating products based on density, it spins around really quickly. And the denser stuff goes to the outside of the spinning rotor, and the lighter stuff gets pushed up to the inner side of the spinning rotor where the forces of gravity while the centripetal force is less right. Now, there, here's what you need to know. First of all, on refrigeration, the spinning from the rotor does generate a significant amount of heat. So if you're going to be spinning, things get pretty warm. Now, that said, I know plenty of people like Wiley do frame his centrifuge is not refrigerated, and he's had good luck with it. But you do need to do a couple of things, you need to chill your buckets down beforehand. So sometimes I would put ice water in and when I used a non refrigerated centrifuge, and just get everything cool beforehand, you can store a little Don't, don't ever put anything into the into the cabinet while it's spinning because it can get kicked up and nightmare. Don't ever do that. But you can put you can put ice into the like bags of ice into the centrifuge cabinet while it's not spinning, to get it nice and cold beforehand, that can help a little bit. So if you bucket start cold, and your product starts cold and your centrifuge starts cold, you might not need to do all of those things, you have a good chance of having the stuff not get too hot. But to give you an idea when something spins for like 15 or 20 minutes without a refrigerator and starts everything starts out at room temperature, you can get you know, up above, slightly above body temp, you know up into like yeast proofing temperatures when you spin so that temperature rise is appreciable. And though the longer it stays in, obviously the higher the temperature is going to go. So that's you know what you're dealing with if you if you're talking about talking about not having a refrigerator, it's not insurmountable, it's not something that you know, I would if I could choose refrigeration what I have it Yeah, you know what, I not buy a centrifuge because it didn't have a fridge. No. And the advantage of not having a fridge is that centrifuges with fridges are a lot heavier, they cost more, and they're a lot bigger and they take up a lot more space and they take more power. So these are, you know, three things that aren't necessary and they throw more heat off into your kitchen because remember, any refrigerator in your kitchen is throwing off heat. That's how it's making things cold on the inside. Okay. So that's that. And if you're a real DIY Mater, I'm not going to recommend that you modify centers with that well crazy what am I what am I crazy nuts. Dave said I could modify the center fusion it blew up and killed every one of my restaurant, you know? Yeah, she didn't know that I deal with these corporate weasels all the time. Like I have to think like a corporate weasel sometimes, which is kind of depressing. Stars is like, who are you? I don't even know you anymore. I can't believe you moderate it's something you were gonna say based on corporate weasel think? Yeah. Well, you know, we all get worse as we get older. I think you know, we're not like fine wines as it happens. So the other question is about the the G forces involved. Okay, here's the thing on a spinning ball. Get centrifuge, I find that you need a higher G force than you do in a fixed angle rotor. So a fixed angle rotor is one where you have tubes or vials or whatever and they're kept at a fixed angle, right the fixed angle rotor. And what happens is, is at that fixed angle particles that are that are getting spun out of the solution, they're not they're not in solution, but getting a D suspended, let's say, and turn into a puck, they hit that side wall, the fixed angle rotor, and then they scour themselves down that angle and compact into a nice pellet. Alright, so fixed angle rotors can form a nice pellet at fairly low G forces, whereas a spinning and there's typically less distance that that the particles have to travel before they hit that wall. So it spins out faster. Spinning bucket rotors, they can separate fairly quickly, but they don't compact as hard when they're hitting because they're, they're basically just settling onto a flat thing. And then they have to push, there's no kind of scouring action down into it. So when a spinning bucket rotor slows down, which is when the problems happen, they tend to kick ball stuff back up into the product, and they tend to cloud. So back when you know when my centrifuges are running closer to 3000. G's, like when the bearings are getting shot, things tend to be a little cloudy, or is it still going to work? Yes. Can you still carbonate with it? Yes. Does it make me super happy? Do I wake up with a big smile on my face thinking about a centrifuge that can only run at 3000 G's? No, you know what I mean. But that said, you know, it's definitely going to be worthwhile. And certain things are going to clarify 3000 cheese, no problem like banane, who Steena, which is a clarification monster. But other things that are on the verge of not clarifying or they have very fine sediment that tends to kick up, you might have some problems, and spinning longer might solve them, or it might not. But you know, it seems like it's a fairly small center fusion, it's might be worth the money, if you can get it for $1,000, the ones that I used to get for really cheap. The swans don't seem to be as available as they as they used to be. But here's the other thing, I'm going to recommend if you're going to buy a used centrifuge for a bar program,

don't count on it to survive, you must get a backup unit. Okay? You must get a backup unit, or you must train your bar staff to be able to do alternate techniques, like ag are clarification but Agra clarification is not going to work if you're doing things like who's Dino. So, you know, a new centrifuge, is it going to break? Probably not. It's eight grand, right? That's just that's just facts. But, uh, you centrifuge. Don't think you can get away with a $1,000 one, you centrifuge, because that sucker will break I'm telling you from experience, it will break. And the odds that someone at the bar, if you're not there, is able to fix it themselves is low for two reasons. Not that many people are trained in fixing centrifuges, or have the kind of kind of mechanical, I'm just going to freakin do this thing and fix it. And even if they did, what are the odds that someone who's working for you feels comfortable ripping apart your centrifuge? Because what if they mess it up? You know what I'm saying? So it's very hard to get someone at the bar to be able to do something, like fix a centrifuge for you. So if you're not willing to fix it, or you're not able to get there instantly to fix it if it goes down, or if you don't have some sort of, you know, way that you don't need those menu items on a regular basis, then get a backup.

Yeah. Did you fix it yesterday? Yes.

So I've said we had one that was broken yesterday, the brushes was the brushes that went bad. And I might I need to replace it again. But I was able to get it to run no problem. Look, there's it's the kind of thing it's like, you know, I know that stars and I said that we weren't going to be you know, you know, duct tape and bubble gum

brushes last time. It was like balancing on two things and you had like it was underneath.

It's still like that. Yeah, well this is like on Yeah, on a sheet tray. Yeah, that didn't didn't fit on right. Yeah, this one it's like I mean, look if you guys knew the kind of like real dumb way that we have to do things nine times out of 10 is the funniest thing ever had I forget who it was. Somebody was like said that. We they accused us of like having all this like awesome equipment and like like cushy everything. And while that thing came in, I think I was literally lifting a centrifuge by myself, like, up to a place over my head so I could go underneath it and work on the motor. Remember that day? Oh, my God. Anyway, you know, again, like, we're not as duct tape as we were before, though, right? Sounds we're getting a little better. Yeah, yeah. But whatever. It's like it's like, it's like Jack, you know how we've had this conversation a billion times, but it's always worth having again. You know how in a band. You keep on saying that someday someone else is going to move your equipment for you. Yeah. Does that ever happen? Yes. That you have other people moving your equipment now? No, I mean, not full but sometimes in some gigs, you know, really? Yeah, man. I was all mad. It was like it. I'm gonna get to the point in my life where someone's gonna carry my bass rig around. No you won't know you won't. You don't and it's the same crap. Same thing with cooking crap. You just never get there. All right. Brian Haggerty writes in from Minneapolis and by the way he says at the end that we were wondering about it once that the abbreviation for Minneapolis MPLS Did you know that yeah, nipples. It doesn't make sense. I don't I don't get Minneapolis NYC you get NYC you get New York City, but many mn

wait NPS no MPLS n p

m like Minnesota or Minneapolis? P like political science. l like latrine s like sandwich got nipples. But like the thing is is like like I don't know like am I PS or MIPS I don't know like many nipples. There's no end to me in Minneapolis is about the ends right Minneapolis men. This is just nipples. Have an n m n p and men are MNPS men EPIs mintus. I don't know. I don't know. Do you have I just Minneapolis. Yeah, I'm looking at the word Minneapolis next to nipples. And I'm not I'm not feeling it. You feel it? No.

It's just not No.

No. No. Right now. I first I thought it was like some sort of contraction of like, Minneapolis St. Paul like look at kind of Twin City thing. But it's not it's literally just Minneapolis crap on those St. Paul people is not even in there. You know what I mean? Whatever. Nipples. I kind of now I kind of like it now I have in my in my head. You know, like at the beginning of a lot of rap songs. I'd be like, nipples, nipples, nipples, nipples, you know? I mean, like, like Public Enemy. You said do that. But they wouldn't say nipples. They'd be like what's that sign come the trough? It's either. I'll look it up anyway, but that's what I have going through my head. I have someone like mipmapping that. Oh, I know. It's that. Nevermind. I'm not gonna get into it. It's off of 91 the what is it? The only one the enemy strikes black or The Empire Strikes black? I don't know. Remember that. Um, Jack. Anyway, Brian Haggerty writes in regarding chia. I recently discovered your show and I'm loving it. I'm wondering if you had any. Well, thank you. I'm wondering if you had any thoughts about the usefulness of chia seeds? That's Can you do the GSM for me? No. Come on. Jack. Can you do the QI song Am I gonna have to do it? I want to do it. You're gonna have to do it. touchy. Touchy up. Okay. You did used to do those things when you were a kid? Yeah, you know what the most recently I had a new old stock. This is maybe 10 years ago. Mr. T ahead. Awesome. His Mohawk is perfect because it's got the ridges in it to hold the chia seeds. Did you do Chia pets when you were a kid? Jen? Why not? What was wrong with you know like chia pet? Sounds like a classic chia pet. Or do you like some weird Chia pets? No. I had the classic not like some sort of Homer Simpson growing hair thing. Classic. I imagine it seems like a very California thing.

They have chia seeds in disgusting stuff now like in juices

last we're about to talk about do you what do you prefer basil seeds.

I had my first one two days ago and I thought it was disgusting the texture Have you had it?

It's it's like mucilage grass in a beverage people like

I thought it was going to be like because it was raspberry flavor that it would be like raspberry seeds, you know second

like current raspberry seeds and we're about to talk about this are very different from GSC. No,

I didn't know that. So hugely different. Gross. Gross. Gross.

What her actual thoughts? Gross. She's not are you gonna have a new face just for chia seeds. It's still sitting in my fridge. Still sitting your fridge. You couldn't convince anyone to drink that? Oh? No. How like how Xanthan looking? Is it?

Not very Xanthan looking? But the texture is very

Yeah. Very Xanthan so we'll get into it. So anyway, I recently okay, but as you know, okay. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about the usefulness of chia seeds backhands to people no because obviously I went off on a tangent because I cannot help myself. As I'm sure you know they absorb a ton of water and form a weird gel. You say that's accurate stuff. Weird gel. She she's got her weird gel face on her Chia gel face her trying to keep it down in her mind face on. Various vegan folks suggest I like that various vegan folks. It's got a good ring to it. You have you have good alliterative pros Ryan. Various vegan folks suggest using a slurry of ground seeds, ground chia seeds and water one tablespoon of ground seeds to three tablespoons of water in place of a An egg. Yeah, okay. I have used chia seeds in turkey meatloaf to good effect. America's Test Kitchen has a turkey burger recipe that calls for gelatin to offset the dryness of the turkey or you could just not overcook the freakin Turkey America's Test Kitchen. This is why turkey burgers suck so hard. They're always are over freaking cooked. Why do people do this? It's like salmon burgers. Like someone shows you a salmon burger and they overcooked the piss out of it because if they salmon burgers, like theoretically a salmon burger is a good idea, right? Except for they always make it too far in advance and sucker oxidizes you get that oxidized salmon flavor and it's overcooked into a dry puck. And they do the same thing with the turkey burgers and when they order the turkey burger Adam like don't order the tourney. Don't do it. You know what I mean? Anyways, but you can make a good turkey burger without using chia seeds, or gelatin. If you just take care, whatever, I'm not gonna get into that. We're not talking about that right now. Okay, I have used back to the question. I have used chia seeds and turkey meatloaf to good effect. Americans test kitchen has a turkey burger recipe that calls for gelatin to offset the dryness of the turkey. So I figured I'd use Chia slurry. How'd you like that word? Chia slurry instead of gelatin. I also mixed in ground dried chia seeds on the theory that as the meat cooked and released its juices, juices. Those juices might be captured by the chia seeds and thus be retained in the loaf. I don't know if this mechanism this mechanism functioned. But I do know the finished product was juicy and delicious. Awesome. Awesome. That's good. I use chia seeds and crepe batter and place of eggs to weird effect the seeds thick into the batter like crazy. So I added a ton of water plus some oil to thin it down. And it cooked up strangely with lots of holes that developed as the water evaporated. The taste was not bad, but it wasn't much like a crate. Yeah. So remember, you don't want a lot of like, you know big like in JIRA style bubbles in a crepe. And this kind of Zan Fanny effect is going to have a different water wholesome, you should think of chia like a Xanthan, because it forms a mucilaginous slime and literally like technically, they're like a forms of mucilaginous slime. Much like Xanthan does. So you're gonna get you're like literally used to foam Xanthan foams for demo size, you get those big holes in them, because of the way it holds. I don't know if it technically forms. I don't know if the gel because of what I was reading has what's called a yield point, which we'll get to in a minute. But so things like Xanthan have a yield point. So they actually act like a solid up, you know, a gel up to a particular amount of force being applied. And then they share it then rapidly. I know that she from the research I was doing is rapidly shear thinning, but I don't know kind of how much of a yield point it has. Anyway, your point is really good for things like eggs. So I'm imagining it does have a yield point. Because that's why Xanthan is so good at replacing eggs because it's not a protein, but it has a yield point so it can hold things pretty well. Anyways. So the taste was not bad, but wasn't much like a crepe anyway. Anyway, Modernist Cuisine of honors cooking uses all kinds of weird gelling agents. But I haven't seen very much about chia gel in the modernist cooking related stuff I've read so far, for instance, science fair, which is like Naveen and Kevin, and those guys know, the Harvard or ex Harvard guys, because they're not at Harvard anymore, right? Yeah, they're gone. They have a long list of hydrocolloid hydrocolloid enablers, but chia seeds not in the list. I'm interested in your thoughts. Brian Haggerty, okay. So, you know, look, the interesting thing is, oh, by the way, before I get started, just take a look at this document. It's open source so you can get it on the internet, the International Journal of Food Science, volume 2014, article 241053. It's called chemical and functional properties of chia seed. Salvia hispanica, GM, by Mayra Ruby, Segura, composts at all it's available online. It's a good read. And interestingly, you know what, what they said that I find found interesting is that it was used in Aztec ceremonies chia seeds for a long time. And their argument I haven't researched the history of it enough is that it's literally because it had religious significance, that when the conquistadores came in and wiped out all traces of religious ceremony that Chia was kind of expunged, and that's why it wasn't used very much in that kind of stuff for a long time, even though it remained a traditional foodstuff. But that chia seeds was an incredibly important foodstuff, like in the words of the article less than corn less important than corn, but more important than amaranth. Interesting. So all hydrocolloids? Almost all hydrocolloids are natural things that are extracted either from fermentation like Xanthan or gel n. So You know, a bacteria or a fungus is making a slime and that slime is then you know, purified and turned into a gum or from things like seeds. So guar seed, you know, locust bean seed. So the you know that that's how we come up with hydrocarbons. But the interesting thing is there are a lot of seeds out there that have hydrocolloid properties in them that I've just never been really researched from industrial standpoint, sometimes it's because there, there's not enough production out there. And sometimes it's just an oversight. And so this article is saying that they believe that chia seeds do have the ability to have some commercialization in terms of their use, because they can be grown in places where other things don't aren't necessarily going to grow very well. And it has some interesting properties. So what are those properties? Chia Seed forms a slimy gel at very low concentrations as Anastasia knows from her raspberry drink. But also what's interesting about chia seeds is chia seeds were an important dietary carry item because they're very high in oil. So it's a very, like they're 39% oil, very high oil percentage. And if you soak the chia seeds, or grind them and you get this mucilaginous sludge, this mutualization of sludge is mainly formed by a polysaccharide as all hydrocarbons are, but it also has a large protein component in it the way that gum arabic does, and a very high oil component in it. And that combination, that kind of Triple Threat of oil, and, you know, oil and polysaccharide. And protein means that it not only can hold an absorb water, but it can hold an absorb oil. And they think because of the protein also can emulsify. So you can use it as an emulsifier. Hence, it's a good maybe a good replacement for something like eggs. I haven't experimented with it. So this is all just this article. But I'm pretty interesting interested in it, unfortunately, to get the pure hydrocolloid. And by the way, the yield of this gum is fairly high on the order of 10 11% by weight of the chia seed, right, so like a good bit of it is functional, then the rest of you have to deal with is the seed and all that other stuff, most of the, they think that most of these properties are concentrated in the outer coat near the edge of the seed anyways, unfortunately, to produce it, the way they produced it in the article, you have to soak the seeds, blend them that you know, then you have to like heat it at 50. See, and then you have to spin it at 10,000 times the force of gravity for like three or four hours to get the, you know, separate the seeds out from the gum and then you can dry it and have the gum. So, you know, interesting, but I've never I've never used it but it is very interesting maybe because they suggest maybe making mayonnaise with it or anything that needs emulsifying or oil holding. But you don't want to use things like eggs anyway. So we got a quick, quick two questions in Jared writes in about isas with respect to flavor extraction into alcohol and oil. How to chamber vacuums and EC whispers isI EC whispers differ? And if you can start with only one which is preferred, or is there a better option in either of them, especially for long term shelf life of the flavor. Does alcohol percentage or oil type matter? What else should be considered? Thanks very much. Okay. I'm not I'm not not going to push my book except for I go into like cruciate in detail in the book on this kind of stuff. So I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to go as in depth here. I will say this. Yes, alcohol percentage matters. Mean. Higher or lower alcohol is necessarily better or worse, but higher alcohol is going to extract things quicker, right? So it all depends on what kind of a flavor it's it's like anything else, there's no better there is no good guys, there is no bad guys, just you and Miss does. And we just disagree. You know what I mean? said that she likes that song she's bought into that when we all know that's a good tune anyway. Oil type, I don't think it's gonna matter as much except for I guess, obviously, if something's solid fat or liquid fat, so maybe it does matter. I don't have as much experience with that I usually use neutrals or oil whose flavor I particularly like something like olive oil. With respect to vacuum machine versus EC.

They're the fundamental, the fundamental point is this the EC is has is a lot more flexible, it has a lot more power to do infusions, because the pressure differentials are a lot wider. And you know, you can do things like heat it in the in the sea, you can, you know, put a much higher pressure differential, it's easier to deal with that said, if you can deal with the lower pressure differentials that you're working on in a vacuum machine, which is only like 15 psi, the advantage that a vacuum machine has is you can do a huge quantity at once like, you know, depends on the size of your vacuum machine, but I've done like gallons at once. That's, you know, four liters in units of four liters for you metric types. And, you know, so it can do that kind of thing and to be able to do that with pressure, you would move away From an easy and you would get a five gallon Cornelius keg, and you'd hook it up to a nitrous tank or in a pinch of co2 tank if you had time to let it vent off, and you could do it that way. But if you could do it in an EC and you could afford the Chargers then I'd say it's a superior technique to using a vacuum but and it's a lot easier to experiment with the AEC because the unit quantities are much smaller so anyway that's my feelings on it but I you know, again in the book I wrote so many I can't even I can't even think about it anymore because of all the words I wrote in that freaking bookstores won't even look at the book as you all know she uses it as kind of a big deal T hot foods separator like that's she can't doesn't want to open it. I think she might have it taped shut so that she never has to see anything on the inside of it. And but she says it's just thick enough to make sure that you never get the hot side mixing with the cold side. So it's you know, at least it's it's pretty flat, right? Yeah. doesn't bend too much. So, you know, I've done a good job right there. That's, that's all I can hope for. Last in Alvin Schultz. Our good friend Alan Schultz writes in about eggnog. Hi, Dave hammer Jack. Indeed, Jesus Sanchez, hipster and friends. I've been inspired by Booker and DAX is Nick Bennett. And haven't we all been inspired by Nick Bennett? To make some aged eggnog for next year and years to come? Bennett just did a tasting recently of like three year old eggnog or something like this. I recently had a one year old eggnog from hell pale in PDX. It was delicious, and I didn't die. Good news. I'm glad you're not dead. One day. What's your thoughts on the safety of the two recipes listed below? Particularly are my final ABV calculations correct? And should the mix be sterile and safe to drink after a year? Plus, if it's sealed in mason jars not canned or cooked and stored and wrapped in foil at room temp? I wouldn't keep it in room temp. I keep it in the fridge and keep it in the fridge. Wouldn't you kind of start? Why would that be room temp? Alvin. I don't know about room temp because all those studies I think we're in fridge. Although I have to ask Bennett how he stored it. I don't know. I didn't read that when I was reading it. Also Alvin, your your ABVS didn't come in. But Nick said he shook his a couple of times a month to keep it homogenized. I also plan on shaking it every so often. It didn't matter that we'll be using farm eggs on pasteurized. I don't think it matters. The whole point is if it's safe, it's safe no matter what kind of an egg you used. The guys at Rockefeller University who famously did the study, I think in 2008, I think was 2008 of the eggnogs that they have been making for 65 years based on a recipe that was handed down to them from someone who was born in like 1890 and she got it from her like grandma or something like that. That recipe you know, that recipe they tested by inoculating the eggs and the whole batch with salmonella and seeing if it killed it. So the whole point is, is that if it's safe, it's going to be safe no matter what kind of an egg you use. tariffs. If it matters, I'll be using farm eggs and high quality dairy products from a local Creamery. I'm also at high risk I'm not at high risk for illness the illness and or pregnancy and the two recipes I'll be mixing are Michael Romans and George Washington's Yeah, the George Washington. Washington's recipe admits number of eggs use I calculated what roulements yoke ratio was inserted into Washington's booze dairy mix. Alright, so I couldn't look at your calculations. They didn't come through on the email element. But what I would look up is Dr. Rebecca Lancefield eggnog recipe that's the one that was tested by Rockefeller University that recipe is a dozen eggs, whole eggs, not yolks, whole eggs, a quart of heavy cream, one quart light cream, one pint bourbon, one quart rum, nutmeg, and a half pounder, three quarter of a pound of sugar. So what you're looking at here, sugar is going to reduce the water activity and make it a little bit safer. And the eggs water activity is what it is. But in terms of other things, you're looking at a quart of heavy cream and a quart of light cream, which has a lot of fat in it. So there's actually like, you know, a good deal of not water in that too. But you're looking at for that ratio, a pint of bourbon and a quart of rum. Okay, so a quart and a half of liquid for that level. George Washington's recipe is one quart of cream, one quart of milk, but who the hell knows what that means? Because that's like 1700s Who the hell knows? You know what I mean? It wasn't getting it from a store. One doesn't tablespoon sugar, which is like, what is that? Doesn't tablespoons, just like not quite a cup. What is that? I don't know. But eight tablespoons and a stick of butter and that's a half cup, right? So, not quite a cup anyway, one pint. Here's where we get the important part one part one pint brandy. One half pint rye whiskey, one half pint Jamaica rum. So now we're at pint, half pint, half pint, full pint quart, and one quarter pint sherry. Then you mix that and you separate the yolks and the whites, which is interesting, and you beat in the yolks and then whip the egg whites up and fold them in. So you're looking at Washington's recipe is a little less alcoholic than the other one. And he also only lets it sit for a couple of days tasting frequently. So I mean, I don't know whether Washington's recipe as written is safe. It's clearly a little less alcoholic than Dr. Rebecca Lancefield eggnog which is guaranteed safe because they ran a challenge test on it, but it's not that much less alcoholic so you might meet me might be safe, I don't know. And then Romans 12 egg yolks, two cups granulated sugar, a liter of bourbon, only four cups milk and one cup heavy cream at plus three quarters of a cup of cognac and a half cup of Meyers dark rum and a pinch of salt. A that sucks, super higher and alcohol content and the other one so I'm gonna go ahead and say that Romans recipe is 100% guarantee. Obviously Lancefield recipe is a guarantee because they tested that sucker and George Washington, I can't vouch for it. But probably if you live sit around long enough, you know it's going to be safe, but I'm not going to guarantee it but good old George Washington. He didn't die cooking aid. Well, he did but not have that cooking issues.