Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Today's show is brought to you by molecular recipes.com The world's number one source for modernist recipes, techniques, ingredients and tools.

Hey, I'm Jimmy Carboni from Deer sessions radio. You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you liked this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues and coming to you live Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly really late this time, though. Roughly 12. Roughly yea 1245 1250 to 55. Depends on you know whether someone's coming in to record after his join. As usual in the studio with Anastasia about hammer Lopez and jackings. Lee in the engineering booth. How you guys doing?

Good. I'm all alone back here.

Oh, is that why you didn't have the time to put the Jackie molecules on? Yeah, exactly. Go on during the break Jackie molecules. Cohen, your questions to cooking? Not even not cooking anything, right.

Anyway, we'll take them all.

We'll take any questions. I mean, look, there's some questions that were probably refused to answer but test us out. Call in to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. You guys remember that? Like for the first year? I could not remember the name? Yes. I was just thinking that in my head. Yeah. And you guys would have to literally like I couldn't remember the number and they jack and or Anastasia would have to write the number on a piece of paper. Yeah. And hold it in front of my face. I had like a mental block on the telephone number crazy. Maybe, you know, it's like, well, I don't know if I'm sticking around. Like, I'm not going to commit this number to memory. Yeah, he gets what it was.

I think so. Wow. Wow. You haven't committed my number to memory.

That's because it's typed into my phone. Like I know how yours What

I know yours. So. Oh, me.

Me. Well, you're better than me. Mm hmm.

How many numbers do you have memorized? Yeah.

I have like the my like the number I grew up with in Junior High High School in college. My my. Yeah, my mom's house number. It's still the house. Same house. Yeah. And the the first telephone number I had in New York City. I remember 212666 typo. Awesome rice. I see 1266. I remember I remember numbers that existed prior to like when your phone stored all the numbers. You know what I mean? So like I remember very early cell phone numbers like my cell phone number. has been around a long time my wife's cell phone number. And her sister's cell phone numbers have been around forever. So I remember those. My dad's house. Yeah, that's it. That's pretty much it. I don't know my own house number. I don't know any of that stuff. I have to ask Booker what my house number is, but I do know that member of the Heritage radio networks call in line. And that is 718-497-2128. That's 71849721286 a good cooking things happened to you this past week. No, nothing. No, no. You didn't cook anything you haven't cooked.

Yeah, every night but nothing

worth talking about. Wow, that's kind of depressing.

No, I mean, you know, I mean, food was a made eggplant parm like

eggplant parm is not is not nothing. Did you make it from scratch? Yeah. So how do you prepare the eggplant? What do you do

to salt it? So it's wet and how long? Not long because it's usually late.

Do you press on it? No, you're not. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know why? Okay, look, the salting rate starts drying the liquid out, right, but you still have a really spongy, like a spongy thing going on with the eggplants. So when you squish the hell out of it, while the salting also helps you squish a little when you squish it, you're getting rid of some of the porosity. It's going to lead to the increased oil absorption.

I don't put oil in the pan. What the What Whoa.

Why?

I just hit the pan and then put the eggplant in there. And like, bread isn't No, this is not what I would consider a plant. Oh no, it wasn't breaded. I didn't have time. This is a whole nother interesting food. Right?

This is more like an eggplant casserole as you say. It's a farm. I'm like, holy crap. She's got to know no gotta press the eggplant got a bread the eggplant got a fry the eggplant?

No, but it was the bachelor finale last night.

Now. How'd that go? Did you choose the lady you wanted? Yeah.

You watch The Bachelor, huh? Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like it brings people together.

Please do not compare the bachelor in Christmas. Please do not compare you didn't want you didn't feel compelled once he saw last week. I felt compelled to never see it. I felt compelled to never see it again. We

did you watch The Bachelor.

Oh, what happened was last week. We talked about this on the radios. All right. So we had the maker of the Sears Hall and the soon to be mailed steak decorator. And then the next two products actually which you'll hear about in the next couple of months from Booker index. You know, our manufacturer I had him over at my house and we made him use the Cirrus all honest on the prototype stage decorator, by the way, because this guy didn't understand why he was making this product. We haven't mentioned this on the air. Charles the name of the guy is the product manager at the manufacturer uses like I don't really I don't get it. I don't know why. Useless, useless. Who wants this anyways, so like we got him over and we made him cook a cook a steak. But Natasha was like, Well, I'm not coming over unless I can watch The Bachelor. And I told her, You don't turn on the TV. When someone's over at your house for dinner. This is like I'm a human being one on one. You know what I mean? This is like, I haven't grown up in a cave. I wasn't raised by TV only wolves. I know how to behave around other human beings. Right? So I was like, Look, I am a believer and she's not a believer in technology. Anastasia does not have any form. The Stasi only receives television that is broadcast to her through the air. She will not accept any other form. She won't get it over the internet. She has internet. She has it. But she won't get TV via the internet. She like won't spend the $30 and no extra money ever on a Roku stick or on an Amazon Fire. I don't know why she's a Luddite. It's the same reason why she only listens to music that's picked by people that she doesn't know on the radio. Wow. Rather than Yeah, she's like Jack you your music professional. Right. Yeah, right. If you made a playlist she wouldn't want to hear it. Any jerk.com Who happens to like be you know, get a get a DJ slot on any random like, you know, radio station along some highway and some crap hole. Right? That person's opinion on what you play next on the radio valid, valid, valid. Anyways,

so that person also probably a computer at this point. Yeah,

yes. Yes. So anyway, the point being that I said, Okay, look, I have the ability to record this onto onto a computer, and you can watch it at later at a later point. So I recorded the bachelor for her to watch. But it was at my house, so she had to watch it at my house. And so then I had to see it.

Sorry, you had a book and you couldn't not watch it.

That's not true. I couldn't pay attention. I couldn't it was hard to pay attention. It's like, yeah, why? Yeah. Because you're sitting there like, making all kinds of comments about people I don't care about these people are like compellingly, I don't really see the difference between this means you're basically kind of making fun of humanity with which it's kind of a base. Its base. I don't know. I'm not for it. Not for it. I guess. I don't really care what you watch me like watch what you like. You don't I mean? Not my thing. But how do we get on this? Cooking? Oh, yeah. So the bachelor was on last night so you couldn't make it. You know what? There's an interesting no fry recipe from the you know, that new hit Pressure Cooker. I don't know if it's out yet the head pressure cooker book. I don't know if it's out yet. But anyway, there's an interesting kind of pressure cooked eggplant parmi style thing. Maybe I'll look up the recipe. If it's out, I can share it. And then we'll talk about that and you try that next time. Do you own a pressure cooker? The hell's wrong with you? You know what people listen. Like we're doing this here. This is a 201st episode, right? How many times I talk about like saving time efficiency throughput with something like a pressure cooker. Anastasia is sitting next to me every single time. Everything Have you missed one one. I think one. There was one show you weren't here for she called in for it. I think there's one that she missed. There's one totally missed. Yeah, one Germany. Yeah. And and he's no no pressure cooker. Why?

I don't know. I don't know. Why are you so resistant? I'm not resistant. I used to have limited space. And that's a big,

no throw away another crappy pot you have and use the pressure cooker instead. I use my pressure cooker about half the time as a regular pot. You know, and usually if you get a decent one, like we push Kuhn recon enough, which by the way in my life, you know, I've pushed Kuhn recon so much, you know how much we've gotten from?

Well, there's Swiss right? Oh,

what's a bus? You know, it's a button on the Swiss anyways. I think the Stasi should get a free couldn't recon pressure cooker. That's all I'm saying. But the you know the amount of crap that I mean, I don't I own one already. I don't need it. You know what I mean? But whatever. So eggplant, parm, that's what you are. You know what I think let's let's be smart

with the season. How was it? I didn't eat any I gave it to my sister.

Such a weirdo.

What is wrong with you? Didn't feel like it. It's like the bros Anastasia show.

Well, it's just you know what, after all these years, I still just don't understand. I'm using

the thing that we built. Yes. Good enough.

Yeah, that's true. Okay, listen here. I think like everyone, a lot of people you know, you get busy you don't cook. I think you should we should take the time to try and make one interesting thing a week. I cook every night. Then why don't you try to make one of those things be new and outside of your comfort zone and then we can talk about okay, that's that's your cooking. Did you make I have to go back and mental Oh, so this Sunday, we're gonna do this Sunday. I mean, again, nothing like like, well, I did like like salt and pepper shrimp. I made salt and pepper shrimp. You know where you were, you know, the trick isn't some type of shrimp. It's like the double fry. you deep fry. Right quickly don't ever cook the shrimp. And with with a little bit of a batter on it right? You know, you could do the rice flour, corn flour or whatever light right? Then Then you add the pepper that had pepper and more salt. And then you stir fry it real quick. Right before you serve it along with like the you know, I also put in my chilies and sky and stuff stir fry real quick. And that's what makes it so crunchy. Eat the shells. You know I'm saying because it everyone's like, whoa, you showed the babies on the outside a shrimp. Game what's the point because not on the inside of the shrimp. And the only flavor I get out of it is just stuff from if I like suck on their heads or if I get the stuff on my fingers while I'm peeling the shells, which is gross. If you're telling me that the flavor transfer you're getting is solely because you're licking your fingers after you peel the shrimp. You've just told me that's gross. Is that gross? Yeah. My point being that like if you fry it right like that you should be able to eat to show which I do. I consume more than my fair of chitin and I made my mom's escrowed dish which is like a go to on Sundays when I'm super busy. I like it like it's grown Beans, beans meat at school. And biscuits. Which I know you hate. Anyway, so that's that's our New Year's. That's our new year's resolution late Come in.

201 is like a new It's our new

No Yes. Our third century of of cooking. I like it. Yeah. Nice looking report cooking report. All right, let's get to some of the What about you Jackie cook anything interesting.

was like a beat facility with some trumpet mushrooms.

Wait, did they pasta was pasta color with beets? Yes. So it had no flavor.

Not any discernible flavor. Yeah.

Here's a little spread though. Yeah, here's a little secret. Color passes. It'll taste a different

My friend has got a jetty.

That is the grossest word you've ever seen really? Ever? It is yes. Yeah. Why don't you describe to

like a spiralizer for for

vegetables. I want to

say only squash though. Like can't really know me. Why

me like squash including like zucchini. Yeah, yeah,

that's all and then you make like veggie pastas and stuff like that. Yeah.

What kind of non English speaker was like the Jedi? That's a good name. The Jedi. Jack would you ever like knowingly eat something that came out of the Jedi?

I'm not gonna answer that question. Not gonna answer that question. Oh, moving on.

Yeah, but anyways,

what's the question Jack? Well,

look what about Daikon Daikon would be good in that thing but not not Kobe was

a stupid thing is it supposed to be like healthy for you but all the rest of you say like use the machete and then fry noodles and then

well, I hate any I hate anything who's but it's? Yeah. Wow the Jedi you just threw me for a loop. You threw me for a loop. I'll tell you what I don't like. Here's what Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, your spaghetti squash in the 70s, right? When I first became aware of spaghetti squash because that's when I first became aware of anything because that's, you know, I was born in 71. So what they would people would do, and by people I mean my mom who's a great cook, great cook. And actually I just went to her like, I went to her anyway, her she just got honored recently because she started the pediatric heart transplant program at Columbia University. By the way, I did not realize this did the first pediatric cardiac transplant successful anywhere. She did that. Yeah, she's cardiologist. Look, here's the thing, every one of us for any surgeons that might be listening, you're not going to take an insult. It's everyone's like, Oh, it's the surgeons, the surgeons Listen, the surgeon comes in, they cut the heart out, they put the new heart and they sew it back together and then they're done. Like the the care beforehand and afterwards, right? Is there going to be whether or not this person lives for a long time or doesn't? You know what I'm saying? Whatever. She's a cardiologist surgeons, a surgeon, cardiologist, the cardiologist has had to go through that anyway. My point is spaghetti squash. So my mom used to make the spaghetti squash but department spaghetti squash can be delicious. If you steam the sucker, right or whatever, Rose wherever. Shred it into its little noodle lips, whatever you call those things. And then like butter, like lots of butter and other stuff. Maybe some crunchy stuff in you know what, it's not good as it's not freaking spaghetti. You don't put a can of orange jar of pasta sauce into the spaghetti squash. It's why they shouldn't call it this. You know what I mean?

Spaghetti squash carbon.

It's gross. It's gross. It doesn't taste like spaghetti. We should go back to like to go back to what Jack was saying earlier. One of the few things I learned about making pasta because I may have made a lot lot lot of it but you know never I became very good at it was that you could add anything to it to add color and it doesn't change the flavor. So you know, originally I would care what I added to it to an event. I'm like ketchup, whatever. I want to be red on the dump a bunch of ketchup because it doesn't matter pot like the vast majority of the ingredient is the flour and there you're not gonna get the flavor out of it's all left him against us. Yeah, you know, it does taste is like using an alternate flour DHA, like, you know, like the whole wheat ones or the Faro one.

I think this is one that's made out of garbanzo beans now. sounds gross. You have a big face, hitched it to me, because they were on Shark Tank or something. They could you personally Yeah, because they gave it a pacifier when I was working there. Right. So the dudes who are on Shark Tank the show? Yeah, no, no, the guys who created this garbanzo bean. Oh, we're gonna go on Shark Tank. They were on Shark they were I got chosen. They won money from whatever. So they pitched it to me. And they were like, I was like, what's it tastes like? And they're like, do you like hummus? And I was like, No.

Like, sometimes I really appreciate you.

Who doesn't like always? Do I just think

it's even stronger. When you think about that. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I have a caller. All right, caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. It's Joel Esposito. How you doing? I'm doing good. Hey, I have a quick question. I want to build a precision boiler for making coffee. And I started looking at like pee IDs and heating elements and all that. And my plan was to hook up like a like a swivel valve to the bottom of an insulated stainless tank, heat the water and then just dispense it straight over the coffee. But I started pressing it out and I

slipped by swivel. You mean ball valve? Like a ball valve? Yeah. Okay, go ahead.

I started pressing out all the different components that I need. And it almost made more sense just to go ahead and did a circulator like an ANOVA. And I emailed their technical support, and they said that you technically could do that. But they don't officially sanction it, you know.

So what did they actually change? What don't they say? Oh, drinking the water that circulated through the ANOVA they don't officially sanction that Yeah,

I mean, they said that they said it'd be a problem from a standpoint of if your tank gets dirty or the circulator gets dirty, not clean it but they didn't specifically say don't do it because the water isn't good to drink. Into my understanding all the parts are that are on that are submerged in the water are like food grade, and metal and except the bottom A cap for the pump is plastic, probably not a big deal you're dealing with, you know, everything below 205 degrees. So I was just wondering what the deal is there, if that's something that's like even reasonable, or

I'll give you two deals, here's two deals. One, as the manufacturer of equipment that people use to cook things, and having spoken to many people, they will never tell you, it's okay because they have to, you have to spend whether or not an item, an item can be as pure as the driven snow. But you in order to get it to they can legally tell you, it's okay, they have to pay some some Joe como a lot of money to look at it and certify that it's okay. Even if they even if every material that's put into it is known to be foodgrade. Right, they have to like pay a lot of extra money and then keep the search up to be able to say that it can be in direct food contact. So that's why none of these folks are ever going to tell you that you can do that. Unless unless for some unless there's a big market for it. If there's a big market for it in a commercial situation where they need direct food contact, then they'll pay the extra money. But unless they have to, for a very small thing, they're never going to tell you it's okay. Right now, I don't manufacture that product. If they say that the stuff that is in contact with the with with the water is food grade, then you're okay. Your obvious points are one, you have to sanitation becomes a big deal. Because if it's not meant to be food contact, it might have nooks and crannies where bacteria are going to grow. But that said you're going to be circulating at a temperature is just going to wipe out any vegetative bacteria. Obviously you're not in like sterilization, sport stuff, but you could always in between things bleach it if you want, right. So I would say you're okay. Now. Second point is that, I mean, I've used circulators to do T seminars where people want a very accurate T temperatures. One of the problems with circulators is in general, it's not going to it depends on do you want to do this every day of your life? Or are you just testing, if you're just testing, then yeah, get a circulator. And like, you know, just get a container and like put like a little valve in the bottom and take out of it, make sure you insulate the container, whatever insulate the thing you're putting it into, so you don't lose a lot of effects. But on a day by day basis, do you want this sucker hanging around in your kitchen with a circulator, in a vein with a valve over a thing with the stuff, you know what I'm saying? So, like a lot of the other thing is, if you just want to see whether if you just want to see whether or not you liked the results, then yeah, wipe it up out of a circulator. And then figure out how to make it all fancy. So that you, you know, so that you get the results you want, like right now, right? You know, I want to see whether or not the espresso is not we're working on but I wanted to see whether this rancilio that I was, you know, that I had would you know, PID rancilio would be kind of where I want it. So it's kind of opened up all over my kitchen. And it takes a boatload of time to make coffee because it's a nightmare to work with. I'm trying to figure out whether it's worth it for me to fix it. 100% and put it back together in a way that makes my work streamlined. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I wouldn't worry about too much about the the food greatness. I don't know what kind of plastic that they they use. But what do they use? You know what they use? Do you know what it is? Is it abs? It's probably the

construction is completely polycarbonate and metal. But what I'm thinking is it's an impeller pump. And I just needed to basically evened out the ambient water temperature in the tank, so I can just take the cap off, because I don't need directional flow.

Right. Right. Yeah. And if you're really superduper worried about it, I mean, like the really ball or the really baller move. Here's a really baller move for you. They're really baller move would be to also submerse the, your way are you doing? What style of coffee you're doing? Is this is this? Are you doing it like stirred? And then drained? Are you doing pour over? Are you doing French press? What are you doing?

Connects, and here you have the 60s of basically just pour over,

okay? Because if you're gonna do a french press Save, the awesome thing would be to also put the cylinder in the bath. It's being circulated so that the temperature, although you know, look, as people have written in, like, who knows maybe a decreasing temperature during the steep time is what you want. Maybe what you want is a temperature gradient, in which case you need to figure out a way to continuously change the temperature during the extraction time. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's that's another thing I was thinking about. It's looking up like a manifold beneath. And then having like stations where the water is heated, do another specific temperature. So I can do an extraction that ranges from, you know, 195 to 205 and have basically a manifold with three different valves on the bottom and they're all heated in different temperatures.

Right. Right. Hmm, let me think I think the easiest way to probably do Do it. I think most people who do coffee they want to see they want to start high and go low, they want to start high and go low, right? You want to lessen the temperature over the course of these fractions. Is that true?

Actually, I'm not, I'm not up on that right? Now I need to research that.

Yeah. If you want to, if you want to lower the extraction temperature over time, then what you want to do is dump the liquid through a block that is hotter than the water, and then the water as it passes through over the course of the over the liquid passing through it, the liquid will cool it because the block won't be able to heat it at the same rate for a long enough period of time, right. So what you get is, is you'll, you'll get a gradient that goes initially, it'll start at the block temperature, and then if you if you time it, right, you know, and if you get all the thermal masses of everything, right, it'll end at the temperature of the liquid. And that can be changed, obviously, also, by changing the flow rates, and, you know, various other things like whether you add extra heat to the block during the period of time when you're doing it, doing the reverse, I suppose you could also do the reverse where the block is colder than the liquid and then the liquid comes out, then the temperature will rise. But anyway, all these things would have to be tested by by testing it, you'd have to, you'd have to do it, you know what I mean? But all of that's easier than actively changing the temperature of the bath over time, which would be much more complicated. And in fact, when you look at most coffee machines, they're they're kind of like, the good designs are the ones where, you know, it's not necessarily that the temperature is 100% stable, but the gradient during the shot is favorable. Again, my brain only thinks espresso, so I have to apologize for that. And I said, I said, I have to apologize, my brain only thinks in espresso, but think about it this way. In a classic French press shot, French press a cup of coffee, right? There's a large temperature gradient between the beginning and the end, and that's a decrease. Okay, that's a decreasing record. So if you liked that flavor, whereas I think a clover, which I don't have any experience with running one, I think a clover can maintain the shot temperature. So I've never done like a side by side press versus Clover shot without kind of getting rid of the other intervening variables. It's all interesting. It's a question of what what tastes best what you like. But anyway, hopefully this is somewhat helpful. I said, hopefully, this is somewhat helpful. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. As I say, I hope the information helps out a little bit. If you can't hear it. If you can't hear well, you have to go back and listen to it on the on the iTunes.

Yeah, um, so I mean, it's basically just my way of sidestepping, buying a $3,500. Marco, or Uber boiler or whatever. So yeah, I'm just trying to find a way to hack my way around that. So

alright, well tweet it on into cooking issues at cooking issues. Tell me how it works out for you. Awesome. Thanks a lot. Alright, Jack, you want to take our break? Yeah, let's do that Jackie molecules.

Hey, what's up guys, it's me Jack, as in Jack from cooking issues, as in the guy that's probably been talking on this show. So here on the break to tell you about molecular recipes.com, which is not only an awesome website and store and resource, but also they support us, which makes them even that much cooler. So I know Dave gives you plenty and plenty of information on the show. But should you need further resources should you want to get some of the things he's talking about molecular recipes.com has recipes, techniques, ingredients, tools, all in the world of this modernist thing we love so much on the show. So you know, explore the world of phones and spheres and invisible foods and mind blowing cocktails, all that awesome stuff. There's a community of over 400,000 chefs, scientists and food lovers sharing their favorite recipes, tips and tricks, cool photos, tools, gadgets. Again, this is everything you'd be into all in one place, molecular recipes.com. And just for being a listener of this show, you'll get 10% off any of their popular kits, just by using the promo code heritage at checkout. That's promo code heritage. So again, check them out molecular recipes.com tons of really awesome stuff. They're definitely right up your alley. Good news. I got Johnny on.

You got Johnny. Yeah, brother. Oh, is that with Johnny music? Yeah, I mean, here's some Johnny Hunter music. Wow. Wow, I didn't know that was your jammy Johnny. Yeah, yeah, we got Johnny from the underground meets cool. Have the underground food collected in Madison, Wisconsin, first of all, how's it going over there in Madison? I hear a lot a lot of protests going on right now. Or what's it? What's the what's the feeling like over there?

Yeah, it's pretty intense. Yeah, just unarmed African American kid was shot last weekend, and the city is kind of grappling with it and asking a lot of really good questions. So the protests have been really good. I mean, it's like really engaging and a lot of people participating.

Anyway, it's awful. So we had a question in on smoking, meats. And I thought I'd ask you because I didn't want to answer the question based on my solely theoretical knowledge. Because, you know, I don't have a lot of expertise in what this person asks. So I figured I'd call you Jason wrote in, Hey, Cookie issues team, I have a question on cold smoking and smoke absorption. As I understand smoke absorption is affected by the relative humidity of the environment, and the moisture of the product being smoked. What about temperature? How does environmental and product temperature affect smoke absorption? I'm thinking cold smoking in this case. So if ice cold smoke at 75 Fahrenheit, well, I get more or less or the same smoke flavor, as if I smoke at 4040 degrees Fahrenheit. Inquiring minds wish to know, Jason, I figured I'd ask you since you've probably tested this stuff.

Yeah, let me hold on. Let me ask you to hit our head smoker right now. I'm gonna.

Alright, so you find him and I'll just talk about some random stuff about smoking Well, while you get back

that old smoking distortion difference.

So that said, like, smoking incredibly complicated, I haven't really, I haven't really studied it in depth in a long time, even from a theoretical basis. But I did learn some interesting techniques. What was it? Oh, yeah. Oh, 808 when he's back. Alright, well, Charlie,

I'm gonna let Charlie answer this question.

First of all, thank you for the meats for the 200th episode, by the way. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. Alright, so who do we have on the line? Hello, hello. Hey, this is Charlie, how you doing? So the question, the question was in cold smoking, like, what's the difference in terms of smoke flavor, more or less smoking at 40 Fahrenheit versus 75? Fahrenheit.

75 degrees Fahrenheit, there's not gonna be that much difference between 40 and 75. The only real difference with smoke doesn't penetrate, once meat gets above about 130 to 140. It stops penetrating at that point.

So okay, so you're saying that, like, you're gonna get your,

your, whatever you're doing for, I think, 40 degrees, 75 degrees, I don't think that's going to make much of a difference. It only like only is going to affect it, once it gets above like that 130 threshold,

right? Do you think there's going to be a big difference, because the humidity in the box is going to change a lot if they don't have good control over the humidity in the box? Because it's going to be like a different relative humidity when it's that cold? Or when it's like, like fridge temp versus when it's at like room temperature? Is it not? Is it really just going to be like six and one half a dozen? The other?

You know, I don't really think there's much of a difference. Some people will really think that there's a huge difference, but I don't think there's much of a difference. If if your revenge movie is relatively the same. You know what I mean? Right?

And so would your opinion be keep it at like 40? Just for safety reasons? Is it? Are you better off just staying low, then

you're always better off staying low. It depends on if you have any pink salts, or any sodium nitrate in the in whatever you're processing, whether you're cold smoking. Sure, if you have if you have that, then you're not worried about the botulism, I'm not worried about the temperature getting up there,

right. So your quality standpoint, don't have anything if

you don't have any nitride or anything in there, then I would keep it at 40 or below if you can while you're cold smoking, right? But if you have, but if you have cure in there, then you're fine. And you should be able to smoke at 75 degrees and then call

afterwards. Sure. So you're saying it's not a quality issue, maybe a safety issue if there's not enough botulism inhibition due to due to the cure you applied.

That's just going on what you're saying with what I know from what you're saying just now. Yeah, that's what

is there. Is there any difference by the way? It's just a question I have not really to the how wet or dry you want the surface of a product to be when you Cold Smoke versus when you have smoke.

I mean you anytime you're going to smoke, you want to give that give the whatever your whatever you're smoking a day to hang overnight in the cooler so that it developed some impact to it.

Right? But not totally. You don't want to you don't want to form like a like an impervious skin. You don't want a case hardened it though, right?

No, you don't want a case hardened. Obviously you don't want it to be completely dried out, but you do want to have the decent dry surface if it's if it's wet it you know, the smoke tends to it can get kind of like an accurate taste to it.

Now, there's a there's something I read about which I know you guys like having access to all the science folks over there at the university. I just read about it, I didn't know about it, they're gonna cut me off the air since I wanted to see what you think about whether you you can try this. You heard of electrostatic smoking?

Um, no, I guess not. I mean, I've seen some pretty bizarre smoke designs that I've seen, like where it's like a friction, smoke. But I don't know what that is.

Yeah, friction. Smoke is cool. Okay, so like, I think it's pretty clear that the temperature of smoke generation super important, relative like super important, right, so we're not, we're not talking about that this is check out what these guys do. This is like super speed, super speed smoking, what they do is, is they have a metal conveyor belt that the food travels on, right, and they travel it underneath a 40 kilovolt electrode, right. And they set up a giant electric field in between this electrode and the conveyor belt with the meat in between. And it just, like accelerates like the particles and the vapor stuff in the smoke on to the meat. And then it rolls away. And so stuff is smoked in like five minutes. But here's the crazy part about it. According to the data I've been reading, like it literally forms like a layer of smoke on the on the on the stuff that you can peel off until it goes through. It's like cooking and like tempering out procedure at that point. That like it's so exciting and behaves like a normal piece of smoked meat. Isn't that crazy?

I guess I'm still confused. Like a conveyor belt. You said the wisdom of the meat? Well, yeah,

so as conveyor belt is moving through, but it also provides like the other side, the electrode, the ground, and then they have smoke going through this chamber. And then they have a giant electrode that like electrostatically slams the smoke into the surface of the meat like embedding, embedding the not just the particles, right? Because you know, everyone who's like smokes knows that like there's, there's particles which have like a certain like, the and the actual vapor, which is different, right? So there's the vapor and then there's the particles, which is why if you put smoke in a container, let the let the particle settle out and open. It still smells like smoke because there's vapor and whatever anyway, but accelerates not just the particles, it accelerates the vapor, like with this huge like electrostatic force bang right into the surface of the meat and is like insti smoke and that nuts.

So is it so does it penetrate those further than or is it just a base level like just the surface?

Well, these guys aren't doing it in a coal smoke application. They're doing it I think in a hot it like a pseudo hot smoke. So what they're doing is is that is it after it goes through that on the conveyor, it goes through its cook process. And during the cook process, like all the stuff that's been embedded in the surface of the meat will distribute throughout the meat the way that it would in a normal kind of a situation. Yeah, so it's

sort of that's interesting. So it puts like a heavy dose of it on the surface of the meat isn't that is absorbed through just the regular cooking process.

Right but not but not so not heavy in the same way that like applying a heavy smoker and make it accurate because it's a diff Anyway, check it out. See whether one of those lunatics at the university hill they can rig one up for you. I'd love to hear someone who actually can play around with it.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Really interesting. Anyway,

thanks so much. Thanks so much for the answer. They're going to rip me off the air in about in about 30 seconds. We love you guys at the underground food and meat collective over there. All our you know, love out to Madison. What's going on right now? I've got more questions I didn't answer. We'll get them next week on cooking issues.

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