Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Hello, and welcome to cookie juice. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cookie cutters coming to you live on heritage radio network from Bushwick Brooklyn at Roberta's pizzeria almost every Tuesday for roughly 12 to roughly 1245 knot joined in the studio today with Anastasia hammer Lopez no fault of her own you haven't have any weepy sad track on your thing Jay Z Wow, not bad. That's not like oh, you're sad she's here it's like a war on her. It's really not her fault. No like on the airline maybe on yeah Turkish Yeah. And she she got delayed coming back from Istanbul for some reason her flight from Greece was connected through Istanbul no one told those folks that that's the wrong way. That's the wrong way to get back to America to fly Turkey via Greece, which is here because we wanted to show wait jack for next time to talk about Greece trip. Yeah, I think so. I was I actually made it to Turkey for a day because I was on the same flight but yeah, but I came back a day early so that I could hang out in Istanbul for a day. Really cool food in Turkey. Really? Did you know that Turkish cheese is really interesting. I don't know why. I don't I mean, I just hadn't expected they have this. I need to look up the translations because I you know, I don't speak any you know, I don't speak anything other really than English and a smattering of German and you know enough French to get me by in the kitchen, but I guess the same Spanish just enough to like, just the kitchen anyway. The point is, they have this like crazy string cheese thing. But it tastes like beer almost like it's a yellow. They have like a white string cheese. It tastes fairly neutral. And they have a yellow string cheese of tastes kind of like fermented yeast, the beer kind of a situation they have a sheep's milk cheese. That's aged. Get ready for it aged in a goatskin one. Yeah, they have a I'll say it again. They have a sheep's milk cheese aged in a goat skin. Good Very good. And have some like incredibly light, like buttery cheese. So there's some really really good cheeses also had some really they had you know that they had some very good cured fish in in Turkey. Did you notice I did not know that either. We'll talk about later they had this. I forgot the name of Allah kurta is the name of it. It's this. It's this bonito that comes from the Bosporus, that they can And then the salt they like salt it and let the Brighton serve it raw. It's like the most velvet with onions. It's like the most velvety textured fish like ever. It's awesome anyway, so big surprise I didn't even get to go to any I was in Turkey I had this slept on Derma you familiar with that Jack they stretchy ice cream? Yeah, that's the first time I've had it actually there you know proper, which is nice. And you know, you can bring it home. It's not quite the same. They're lying. They say that it's going to be the same. It's not quite the same when you bring it home. I think it needs to be manipulated a little bit didn't have quite the bike because I paid some ungodly amount of money to do you also know that you can bring dry ice on an aeroplane as long as nobody asks you.

Well, yeah, sure, sure you bring a lot of stuff as long as nobody asks you. I

mean, they sold it to me on the airplane. Oh, it's actually I when I got home at JFK is the first time I've ever been able to actually rationally talk somebody at customs out of anything. They're like, we can't bring that in because it's it's uh, it's you know, it's not cheese was not fermented. It's dairy and, you know, may contain eggs and said, Well, you know, it's cooked. And he's in the straight face guy looks at me. He's like, when I make ice cream at home, it's not cooked. It's really he said this to me. I was like, we're gonna get this conversation. I said, Okay, I said, Well, I said, I said there's two basic kinds of ice cream that we eat here in America. You get your Philly style ice cream, which is does not have egg yolks, typically and is not cooked and I was like this is probably what you making it home. This is a Briar style of ice cream. I said the other and more typical kind of ice cream is something familiar to more like a Haagen DAAS or a Ben and Jerry's, which contains egg yolks and it's in fact cooked and pasteurized before it's before it's made. I said this, I said this particular ice cream that I'm bringing home from Turkey not only was it sold at the airport for transport into into foreign countries, but contains a powder from from an orchid that must be cooked in order for it to work so I can guarantee that his ice cream has been cooked up to temperatures that are going to kill anything. It's in it. You know what the guy said? Okay. Sure, yeah, sure. All right. I mean, you seem to know what's going on. That didn't save me the last time I tried to bring something through what was that you got stopped last time? Well, that was different. So customs, right. Customs job. I mean, I guess there's there's they're supposed to ensure the safety of a couple things, right. They're supposed to ensure that you're not breaking the law, like you're not bringing in Rhino horn or anything like that. Right. They're also supposed to ensure that you're not going to bring any deadly new pathogens in like you're not going to bring the next though I don't know Asian Longhorn beetle or something like this right. Or chestnut blight or, or citrus green and you're not going to bring in the neck by the way. Speaking of blight you have been hearing about the bird flu.

Oh, just a little bit.

Tell me more 40 40 million birds so far. Sloth killed here in the in the US with the with the birth of price eggs going through the roof. Price of eggs, which, you know, no one ever talks about. Everyone says you know talk about the price of eggs like that's like the you know, the standard like what's the bullcrap the price of eggs. Right? Price of eggs actually now an interesting subject for the first time in who knows how long? Yeah. So usually this bird flu hasn't struck kind of commercial, you know, hatcheries, not hatcheries. What's the word like a egg production things? This time? Yeah, 40 million birds. I mean, we have a lot more than 40 million birds, but the price of eggs is gone. Gone gone way up. Now, I was reading recently that they think they're going to get it under control by by September, but they're still that's pretty far away. You know, summer away. Yeah. Although I was also reading luckily that this virus doesn't like it when it's hot out so much like me, and doesn't like it when it's hot out. And so the prevalence is probably going to go down over the summer. I will see. And how do I get on that? Oh, yeah, customs. So the other guy was when they had all these powders that I had labeled, right. So you know, I had a citric acid powder, malic acid powder, all this stuff labeled. guy comes up to me and says they didn't identify it. So they call it an explosive expert who has this like little doodad that can actually detect kind of what products you have with you. And it was able to pick up the malic acid and the citric acid and I think one other tartaric acid, and it's like Yeah, that's exactly what he said couldn't pick up first of all this guy is like super spoony super suspicious types. You ever meet these guys who like goes through their whole life super suspicious all the time. Yeah, understand. It's their, that's their job cuz they're trying to catch people who are doing bad things, you know what I mean? But, you know, in general, like, you know, who the hell wants to be like that they walk through life, treating everyone, like they're a potential threat, realize it's his job anyway. So he says to me, you know, acids in he couldn't identify two acids that I had, right? He couldn't identify lactic acid. I don't know why. And he couldn't identify ag or ag or powder, which is a seaweed powder. Obviously, he can't identify it takes huge like, you know, polymer, right. You know, sugar polymer, you know, a polysaccharide. Of course, you can't identify how the hell you're gonna be able to identify that. So I said, I said, Well, I said, Okay, I don't understand this because half the stuff on my body you can't identify but Whatever you don't, I mean, like, you can't identify a block of wood either because it also can identify cellulose goods, a large chain powder, but okay, and it has something wood that you're letting bring through that you can identify, but But sure, and the other things that I labeled were the things I labeled, he goes, Well, he goes, we have to throw all of it out. I was like all of it. But you were able to identify the these things is like, well, but I couldn't identify these I have to throw out everything that I couldn't identify. The guy was just a freak, a freak, you know what I mean? It's like how cuz, because I was like, you know, look at it. And he says, it looks at me straight faces. acids can be used as oxidizers and explosive reactions. I was like, I can be used as an oxidizer in a freaking explosive reaction, like, What the hell are you talking about? Like, where on your little computer database? Do the say citric acid should be regulated? Because of its potential use in explosives? And if so, where's all the other stuff that I'm going to combine with the citric acid to make into a bomb but you can't even say those words in an airport. You know what I mean? Or you'll get you'll get instantly instantly annihilated and the guy said to me, he goes you have you have two choices surrender all of this or I'll just turn you over to the Port Authority police I'll turn you over to the Port Authority police for what for what did I do that I need to be turned over to the police? So you know, typically you can't reason with that's like the last time I tried to bring meddler jelly in to from England. And the lady goes, you can't bring that medlar jelly and it's a liquid is it? Oh, it is hmm. And I unscrewed I unscrewed the lid of the medlar jelly and turned it upside down and held it there for like 30 seconds. Of course, nothing came out because, in fact, it's a solid. And she's like, well, it can be melted into a liquid. And I pulled out a piece of plastic and I said this can be melted into a liquid. Furthermore, I can be melted into a liquid and she's like, and she's like, we have to let you on the airplane. We don't have to let the jelly on the airplane I was like you are a bad human being. You're just a poor quality person. You know what I mean? It's just like, you know, because it doesn't make any sense. Like Like, I can't make solid things that can light on fire or explosives but like somehow metallurgy whatever I don't want to get into it. Already did. You did I did I didn't want to get into it but I did the rules are so nutty bags, you know what I mean? It's like whatever. I'm on pro safety. I don't want anyone to think that I'm anti safety. You are pro safety and safety. As much as you know I got I got 100 I got do with my for one second. We're filming in here and so they you know, moving around in our spacious studios. I actually did get to really boneheaded because I wasn't being safe injuries this week in two separate ones. Oh, two separate Memorial Day. Stupid dad. Injuries. I hit my foot with an axe. Oh man. Yeah. Which was entirely my fault. I hit a punky piece of wood and it glanced the wrong way. And guess what I was wearing on my feet instead of safety boots. Freakin sneakers.

Oh, this wasn't sandals.

Well, thanks for that jacket. Yes, yeah, so I wasn't I wasn't you know, yes, I wasn't beach bomb stupid, but I was incredibly stupid. And the other one installing an umbrella. We knew I hate umbrellas right you know on that track?

I did not know that. I

hate umbrellas. How come they're ridiculous I get poked. They're like umbrellas are like the prime example of I'm important crap on you know what I mean? It's like they're all about poking other people in the face. Or getting out of a subway and standing there at the entrance while while someone else is trying to get out fiddling around with your umbrella or trying to walk into an entryway and poking somebody in the eye or dripping on someone's head and under an overhand with you in this there crap there you know just deal with it. Wear a hat like I do get a raincoat you know what I mean? It's like very few poncho that's a lot that poncho there are many other you know what you're just as important as I am kind of situations to handle the rain right? Don't get me started on on parasols wear a hat happened with the umbrella this weekend. Oh well this you know is a DEC umbrella which formerly I was for because I hate the sun. But you know this one Aspire it tried to try to kill but my fault woke up there's like the umbrella is not fitting into its pole properly. But okay, let me turn this over rotate so I rotate it shrunk. Took a big chunk out of my pinky. Oh, my fault my fault stupid so I guess the point saying that is that it's the things that you don't think like you're going out you're splitting a little bit of wood you don't think you're gonna get damaged course when I was a kid I was severely injured splitting what I don't know what the heck is wrong with me like I should be thinking about it, you know? Or, or, you know, installing an umbrella that's it's not it's not when you're using a chainsaw or like using a deep fryer that you get hurt because you're on your toes. It's when you're doing something stupid. That's when you get tagged you know I mean, oh, boy. Anyways, this is not have anything to do with cooking issues such probably not but Alvin Alvin Schultz, you know, Alvin Schultz. Jackie Goldstein listener Yeah, yeah. Good friend of the show. wrote in with a another thing to add to our the Jedi monologues. He says this is his quote at cooking issues. Are you tired of getting things jammed up in your virginity? And he goes try this from the trusted folks that KitchenAid KitchenAid now sells a spiraliser attachment for your KitchenAid for your KitchenAid it's more loot taking off. It's more of an open air spiraliser jack so you can't get anything kind of jammed into it. You know, I'm saying I do now, because who's not tired of getting things jammed up in their veggies. Joe Hanley wrote in. Hey, Dave, what's the best way to defrost hard frozen backpack steak and chicken easy water. And if you have a backpack, you probably also have a circulator. So the easiest way is to set your set your circulator at like four or five degrees Celsius, and then just run it at 45 degrees Celsius, it'll keep heating the water and circulating it, that's the most gentle way if you're going to cook it right away, you know, and you don't mind the fact that it's going to go into the danger zone for a little while. Then you can jack it all the way to like 18 Celsius or something like that. And it'll take it up, you know, even quicker, but yes, circulator in water is by far the best way to thaw a product that's been backpacked, like in no question. I mean, Jack, no question. I'm saying, Can you think of a better way? No, no, you know, what they used to sell for throwing things out. They used to sell large blocks of aluminum. You ever see those at the as seen on TV things? Yeah, actually, yes, yeah. There are large blocks of aluminum with I think, typically with fins on the other side, and it's a chip, but even that is not going to be just like, you know, sitting in a water bath, like circulating all the time. You know, just won't work just won't be anyways. Okay. It's sad that stars is not here. We had to do it one other time. It was wrong with stars the other time we couldn't do it.

She was in California, maybe on the phone. She usually joins us by phone.

She can't. She's literally in transport. And that's like, last week, I was spinning stuff in a centrifuge and couldn't do it. And so it's gonna ask a question later, hopefully, I get to it about like centrifuges. So we'll get to that later if we're going. Sydney and priests wrote in, and basically just said that they liked the book, and they liked the show. Well, thanks. It's very long. I don't like reading long, long praiseful things so I'm not gonna read it. But thanks. Edie says, my wife and I will be traveling to NYC next week for a short vacation celebrating the end of the semester, and will most definitely be making Booker and DAX. One of our muscIes can't wait to get that first. Liquid nitro chilled glass in front of me. Well, thanks. And you know, hopefully, we'll see you there. By the way, Jack did you know this? Istanbul formally or Istanbul? I guess formerly Constantinople? Right. You're familiar with this from the They Might Be Giants on? Did you know that of the flows you that aren't from New York City, we have kind of an irritating habit of wherever we are New Yorkers, and you know, back me up anyone New Yorkers, right? Yeah, New Yorkers is that when you say that, you're going back to New York, you don't say I'm going back to New York City. You just say I'm going back to the city. And it's it's super irritating for other people. Because you could be in a city as large as yours. You're like, you can be in Mexico City, which is like much bigger than than New York. You know what I mean? And you could say, oh, yeah, I'm going back to the city tomorrow. And you're like, what? Which? What city? Which one? You're like, what the? And it's like super irritating New York habit. But strangely, I looked up that Istanbul or Istanbul is roughly translated as a variant just meaning the city so they're the same way we are. They're like, they're the same one arrogance. I wasn't gonna put it that way. Say extreme love of their city, or that or that or that extreme extreme love of their, of their city. I have a caller on the line, by the way. Oh, caller you're on the air.

Hi, Dave. This is Justin from California. How you doing? Good. How are you?

Alright, sweaty, biked over. Alright. Also inhaled something on the street. It never fails. It never fails that when I'm biking. As soon as I go a little bit over the limit of what I can do where I was breathing through my nose, I breathe once through my mouth and I suck some sort of particle in my lungs and spend the rest of the bike ride happy. Wheezing all the way over invariably anyway.

Alright, so my cooking question is I just got a center fuse the car for one to eBay.

How much should you pay?

I paid about 400

Good deal. Good deal. Nice with

100% Oregon. Nice from what I can tell it's been up to 40 4500 rpm and torque and beautiful. The thing that I'm doing right now is I'm trying to disinfect the unit and I put it through concentrated chlorine bath. Then I pressure cooked it and I noticed that there when I pour it out the concentrated a lot of red or a purplish color was pouring out of the bucket. And it seems like if I take like a paper towel and rub it on the inside of the cups there's like a purple ish film it's almost like the color of Rouge

here very CSI Hmm Well that is not having any mind now let's just make sure we're talking about these are black anodized aluminum buckets. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so there's some sort of like something busted in the watch, obviously, all the buckets are just some of the buckets. All the buckets. Do you know who had it before you had it what they were doing with it?

No, I don't, I was actually going to call them sometime soon. Or at least try and get in touch with them. I bought it from a thrift store. So

that's restore. What the heck kind of stores do you have?

On eBay, and then after the person cash, since they're local, and they just happen to be from a thrift store.

It's like a pick up some old T shirts, an army jacket, belt, and a centrifuge. It's crazy. Yeah, and there's no tags on it. Like from like, who repaired it before or anything like that?

No. I mean, it looks like it's in good condition. Yeah, that's

super interesting. I don't know what the Read is. Look. Don't use anything highly abrasive on the inside, but get a scotch brite wear gloves. Scrub it and see whether you can get that stuff to stop coming off you've killed with the pressure cooking in the bleach, you've killed pretty much every bio agent that I can think of. Will bleach do prions? I don't know when you're soaking it and scrubbing it but I would make sure that you get all of that all of the gunk out of it. Can you see the gunk when you're just looking at it?

Yeah, it's a it's like a kind of like a powder. pottery. It's like really stuck on there. Whether it's kind of like a pottery sheen that you see if you put it up to the light you can see like a purple haze

and it's probably a nice strong now I got that song going through my head you've ruined me for the whole day. The you know, somebody else wants us to have Are they still do plastic inserts that go into those buckets to hold test tubes and I wonder whether it's just like years of like that powdered of powdering those things like is it look like it could be plastic dust or it looks like a liquid like it makes the whole liquid that color? Oh not sure if it could be dust. I would just take a scotch brite Okay, and just like gently Scotch Brite and see whether you can get that stuff off. Use a mild detergent like when it's meant to go on to aluminum I mean I obviously don't dishwasher these things because the dishwasher detergent will eat the aluminum the same way that they'll eat aluminum pot you don't want to weaken the surface but see what you can get that off and then you know a couple more good bleach soaks the pressure cooking will kill anything bio with the exception of like I say prions but scrubbing and scrubbing and maybe an extra bleach because the problem is also you want to make sure that there wasn't anything hiding out underneath that gunk that the bleach couldn't get to the first time around so once it's clean you want to go with one last kind of bleach aroma there wasn't this red gunk or purple gunk around the inside of the stainless containment vessel was there no yeah okay, so if that's that's clean like we know one one good couple good bleaching is on that propped open led dry should should get you going but yeah, we'll get the gunk off because who knows what it is especially it's less of a concern if you're going to spin in buckets but I usually spent in sorry in bottles in the buckets but I usually spin directly in the buckets but you have to be super super happy with the cleanliness of the buckets if you're going to do that. Okay, but yeah, but all in all great find let us know what happened for duration storage. He said it was a car right? Well, you said it was refrigerated unit right? You said car? Yes. Yes it is the fridge still work? Yes. Okay. Here's is a couple pointers. Anyone that has this has this kind of centrifuge out there. Here's what typically goes wrong with it. It's going to stop spinning as quickly as because you probably need to replace the brushes make sure that you take like a non gunking eraser or something and clean off the copper on the rotor on the on the on the motor before you put the brushes back in or you'll probably eat the brushes down again. You can get the brushes for a couple of bucks Ozark biomedical stalks them and you can get them also from I think Granger if you happen to know the size the other maybe even McMaster I'm not sure I've had on those things the brake units go on me and you can just clip them and not have the brake anymore although it's nice having the brake. Sometimes the solenoids for the lids go wonky but you can just take off the front make sure you put it back on before you do it and fix that. And I've had the refrigeration go on me a couple of times the actual controller for it not the refrigerant which case you can put a separate controller on it or just put the refrigeration on manual but they're good solid unit should work for a good long time.

Great. Great. Well,

thank you. Alright, thanks. Good luck with it. Ajax we take a commercial break.

Yeah, why don't I just read this text from stars first. Just got out of airport

hate everyone. That's like, like except for the airport. That's every day. That's That's it coming back with cooking issues

Hello out there it's Steve Jenkins I'm with fairway markets. White Leghorn, red wattle, Bourbon red, Navajo churro. These aren't names you're likely to hear at a fairway butcher counter or any other counter today, but before the rise of factory farming you would have and at Heritage Foods USA you still do. Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity, small family farms and a fully traceable food supply. You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmers to buy from them and Heritage Foods is honored to represent a network of family farmers and artisanal producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food system and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate whether it's heritage Turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork or Navajo children lamb chops is the righteous kind from healthy animals of sound genetics that have been treated humanely and allowed to pursue their natural instincts. It's a simple fact, animals raised according to this philosophy taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them. Visit us at Heritage Foods usa.com for more information.

And we are back Hey, Nora didn't notice before Jack. Steve Jenkins calling off fairway a little bit. He's like you're not going to find these the fairway butcher counter Whoa, yeah. Whoa, whoa. calling them out.

That's what makes an ad effective though.

Yeah. When someone's like, hey, you know what, you know, like, you know, fairway like the place that I put on the cheese map. Remember them? They don't have this stuff. Shame on them. They call up. And you had you notice that before?

Yeah. Did powerful stuff. Heritage Foods USA the only place to get it?

Yeah. Wow. The only place I like the way he says red wattle. The way he says Navajo Navajo. True. I know. Well, we talked about when I tested all of the all the Lambert not all of them. But I tested like four or five lamb breeds for the Easter. We talked about that, right? Yeah. Delicious. Oh, yeah. Delicious. In the tandoor World's Greatest cooking, well, my favorite current cooking implement. I'm like, Look, some point I'm gonna have to do a big study on, on like, different kinds of cooking implements for like, different, like, I'm gonna have to have to do a lot of work. It's gonna take maybe I should write that in my next book. And I still haven't figured out my next book is going to be about Jack. Really? Yeah, I gotta figure out my next book, which crowdsource that. Speaking of which have a caller on the line? Oh, really? Oh, caller you're on the air.

Yes, I know. You're a great love of cured meat products. And I have I wanted to hear your personal just what your personal opinion would be such a convoluted argument between nitrates and nitrites. And whether or not we should eat them in our urine products. Because carcinogenic, what have you? There's a ton of stuff out there that doesn't have that. But they have to up the celery, whatever to get it to those levels. Do you have any issues with the nitrates or nitrites

they're safe, they're the other safe look. And the fact of the matter is, is that all this stuff that's labeled uncured with big old quotes that you get it the whole foods, some of which I enjoy, like, like Nyman ranch bacon. I enjoy it. I purchase it, mainly because, you know, I liked the way that they sourced the, you know, had the pigs pigs raised. That's mainly why I buy it. I think that the the the nitrates and nitrites argument is complete bunk. First of all, if you're getting if the bacon is pink, right? If it's pink, and stays pink when you cooked it, ie ie if it is bacon, right, it has nitrates in it. So then the question is, where are you getting the nitrates from? Right? Are you getting it from actually sourcing sourcing nitrates? Or are you taking celery or some other green thing that is like just soaking up a bunch of it from the ground and then concentrating it from that form to add it either way, same effect, same same product really same effect. It's just hocus pocus. It's more it's more BS on the label of on the level of saying that a flavor is all natural, just because they haven't synthetically created a new compound where there wasn't another you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you're dealing with functional equivalents both as far as as the meat is concerned. And as far as your body is concerned, and you know, the nitrates are there to provide cure, taste, cure color, and to prevent botulism, frankly, you know, and And, you know, so baking is one thing because it's cooked at a high level. So the argument in bacon is one of against, you know, nitrosamines, right? Because whatever, I don't know what the current state of causing cancer with nitrosamines is, I really don't. But like I said, if it's pink, and if it's bacon, then it's got that stuff in it anyway. And I don't care how it got in there. And furthermore, if you don't, I don't think that there's, you know, any research that I think is decent, that shows that there's a high enough level of worry, and eating because frankly, you're not you're not your great grandpa, or great great grandpa going off to the California gold rush in the 1840s. And the only thing you can freakin survive on is dried, cured meats, because that's all you can carry in your backpack. Right? I mean, I'm presuming that's not the life you lead, which means that, you know, the vast majority of your food intake is not from cured meats. And so you're eating a relatively small and especially because as opposed to your great, great grandpa, all this stuff is fairly highly titrated. Now, so they're not adding a boat on extra this stuff than they used to. And in fact, we're using for everything except for country hams, you're using nitrates instead of nitrates. The nitrates dissipate even more quickly using in smaller amounts. So really your overall risk level, even if there is a risk, your overall risk level is relatively low. And I would say don't worry about it, especially if you're eating a lot of cured meats that don't require a lot of cooking like or any cooking for that matter, like salumi or whatnot. But it's one of those things that I think is really overblown and the whole uncured pink stuff with the celery really just gets me it gets me ticked off because the problem with it, I think, is is it, consumers believe that they're getting something that they're not consumers believe that they're somehow buying health and they're not, you know what I mean? They're just, they're just paying extra for someone to have to jump through a hoop to get a label that looks friendly for the exact same result. You know what I mean, and that is an irritant to me. Yeah, it's

embarrassing for me as well. Yeah.

I hope that hope that helped. Oh, that

was a fantastic summary. Yeah, my grandpa had way more sodium than I do.

Of course they did all that because they didn't have a fridge you know what I mean? Exactly. Are my great my grandfather had my great grandfather didn't have one you know what I mean? So but it's like I don't know and you know, luckily I think we're coming off of it's the these things go in waves like like particular hatred for any any one of our normal foodstuffs comes in waves. And I think hopefully, the anti salt wave is crested and crashed. And we're, you know, back into real although you never know, big food companies still spend a lot of time and energy trying to reduce reduce sodium for one and with some reasons valid some reasons not not valid. But

isn't it the same thing with you know, salt products, and get all these like highfalutin? sosi better for you salt products, and it's still still the sodium compound is the sodium compound minus whatever minerals or whatever else they want to treat it or harvested? With? Sodium pumped out?

That is correct. Now there are so so the things that they can do. So let's say your there are people right, who are sensitive to to salt and should cut down their salt because they're prone to have blood pressure spikes as a result of salt intake, right, that people are, right. Okay. And so what they can do, like milligram per milligram salt is gonna affect your body the same way no matter how, no matter no matter what, I don't care, you know what I mean? If it's harvested by Tibetan monks in, you know, in the in the Himalayas, whatever, it doesn't matter, you know what I mean? Version versions of Atma. Yeah, exactly. Well, exactly. You know, although Tibetans, interestingly, Buddhists still still eat meat, right? Because you have to hit those high altitudes, right, you need the fat. So these guys are still eating yak and whatnot, plus Yak, but whatever. But there's a whole separate discussion what I'm saying is the salt as the salt. However, there are people that can engineer salt delivery systems and salt to make the equivalent amount of salt taste salty, or to you by by altering the way for instance, on a potato chip, which is a dry salt application. They can form salt into shapes like spheres that tastes salty, or for a given level of salt just because because a lot of the salt that you eat you like you might not even ever taste, you know what I mean? It might just go into your body without actually hitting your tongue in a way that you can taste it so they can, they can do things like that they can add also, other things to augment your perception of saltiness in the food without without there being salt in there. They can also add, so salt aside from being salty clearly increases your perception of other flavors. It's a flavor. It's not just a its own taste, taste and on the tongue. It's an enhancer of other tastes and flavors. So they have other things that can do that, that are not salt, right? You know, they can boost for instance, savory umami, and get some of the similar kind of like flavor enhancing techniques you can with salt. So there are things they can do to alter the salt in there that aren't kind of hokey, I think, look, all what's hilarious about this is is that most people who are anti salt are anti or anti nitrites are somehow anti process anti processed foods, right. But what they don't understand is that the amount of processing that actually goes into creating products that are lower in that, but are still packaged goods, is higher than if they just use the normal crap to begin with, you know, what I mean? It's

just the amount of salary you have to have to perform that same ability that a regular nitrite would do would be it's a lot.

Yeah, I don't even know what the concentration levels are, or how the exact kind of processes but it's, it's just one of those things that people they believe, you know, they, they just want, they want to believe something and you know, who am I?

Honestly, whatever you do next for a book would be a lot of fun to get some of those myths and write on them would be I would enjoy reading.

Well, there's a lot of books out now. They're coming out. Now. It's a tough subject in general, kind of like the the psychology and the kind of science of what we eat in this realm is, is there's a lot of books being written from multiple sides. So like there's a book called the Dorito effect that just came out that has. Yeah, I mean, I have my issues with it. But yeah, I just, I just read it. And, you know, a couple of years ago, there is a sugar, fat salt, and which I had a lot of problems with, actually, because my 10 that I thought the basic tenet of that book was, they were like food companies are trying to make their food as delicious as possible. Stop it, you know, which doesn't make sense to me. But the Dorito effect kind of picked up where that took off. Right? And kind of the argument of that is showing the argument, the book, it just came out, right, Jack? Yeah, did. Yeah, I think the argument of that book is more that they're making stuff tastes good. But that's messing with your biology, because it doesn't have the nutrients that those tastes would would would normally signify. Anyway, there's a lot of work on that side. The problem is a lot of the work that is kind of calling, calling BS on on movements, like the anti salt movement, or, or this or like the fake nitrites are written by people with a real axe to grind. And there's very, it's hard to kind of write something that hits in the middle road that doesn't piss everybody off. You know what I mean?

And they're always selling you the alternative when they grind the axe. Exactly. That's why they're grinding.

Yeah, exactly. So like, for instance, like the genetic genetically modified, the anti GMO lobby, let's just take that for an example. Like, now look, from a scientific standpoint, it's pretty damn clear that there is that it's that there's no problems with it, right. And that, in fact, people are pushing to regulate something that is much safer than other processes that they might wish to regulate first, for instance, people are pushing for GMO labeling on GMO products. But and I'm not saying that. I don't want anyone to get mad at me, right? If you want, like, whatever you want, you want this is fine. I'm just presenting kind of what I think. But there's the people who want GMO products labeled, maybe what they don't realize is that any genetic modification, you're putting a specific gene in to, to an organism, because you think that that gene will help do something. And it's a gene that has a known function and another organism, right. That's what we're talking about. Now. You know, it doesn't ever need GMO labeling, or can can be labeled as GMO free. Here's something that can be labeled GMO free, you take and you bombard seeds with high intensity radiation to or mutagens, straight up mutagens. Now, I'm all for this too, by the way, I'm not against it. I'm just saying that the people who are anti GMO, you'd think they'd be anti this, you can bombard these things and cause spontaneous mutations, that that may do something you like, they may do something you hate. But here's one thing, they are freaking unpredictable, because they're spontaneous mutations due to mutagens. And radiation. You grow these things, and you get something that you like, and you don't have to label it at all. You can label it organic, and you can label it GMO free. Now, that makes no freaking sense. And it's not really what the GM, the anti GMO lobby wants, if you actually talk to the GMO anti GMO lobby, which, you know, I have in various kinds of in the mouth had debates that we've done. And over the years, what their argument actually really boils down to is they're anti big corporation, but no one wants to Yeah, no one wants to have that conversation, right. It's not really the genetic modification, because if you're like, what about this genetically modified plant? They're like, Well, that didn't work, Mike. Okay. You know, particularly

against one large corporation, but that's, that's part of the issue.

Yeah. But you know, the thing is, is like, what we should do is we should just have the conversation about Monsanto, or, you know, whomever, there's a couple other ones but we should just have that conversation. but for some reason, no one is willing to have very few people are willing to have there is there are some I forget the name of the author. I don't know why it went out of my head. But basically, he wrote a book that said, you know, what the problem is, is that food is too important to have in the control of big corporations. Right? That's the tenant of the book is like, Okay, finally, someone who's just being honest, this is that they're anti big corporation controlling the food supply. But once someone makes that argument, well, then you can have a reasonable discussion about what the alternatives are, you're like, Okay, are you really willing to abandon kind of like, the system that we have now? And what would the alternative be? That's a reasonable discussion versus the GMO, which it seems to me to be kind of a, like you're trying to squash, Monsanto would still be in business, if there was no genetic modification, let's be clear on this, Monsanto would still be trying to run the seed trade in the US with or without genetic modification. Like we could talk about patent laws being problem, like there's all these things that can be talked about as being problematic, but very few people are having an honest discussion. And I don't know whether or not it's possible to write a book that deals with that, or even partially deals with that, without just falling into a flurry of crap from both sides that have access to grind, the corporation pro Corporation side and the anti Corporation side, it's it's a kind of a weird space to be in, you know what I mean?