Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information visit heritage foods usa.com

I'm Linda Placido host of chasing the pass. You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you liked this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the heritage radio network as usual on Tuesdays from around 12 Somewhere in the 12. Area 1212 1012 12

Hey, look, it is my fault. Because, you know, obviously, people show up to work on time. However, in my defense, the J and the M are skipping all of the stops that are related. I mean, Jack, no offense, that's one of the problems will be by being out here and theoretically well served Brooklyn. See, Manhattan is not theoretically well served by public transportation. We are actually well served by public transportation, at least south of 96. Race does. Yeah, that's why she lives over in Hell's Kitchen. That's one place on earth Anastasia does not hate is Hell's Kitchen. It's true. She claims. I don't know if you know this jack. She claims that the actual Sun is nicer, like a mile and a half west. On the west side of the island.

Well, yeah, better coordinates. Sure.

It's a mile and a half away. It depends on how many tall buildings there are between you and everything else. And crazy people crazy. It's

funny when they said there was that Manhattan henge where the sun was going to align with the buildings and it would set perfectly in between the grid. I was driving to Philly and all these people are in the middle of the street blocking traffic with their phones. It's completely overcast.

Are you about to sing the Age of Aquarius? sounded like you were sitting in for the Age of Aquarius rather than the moon right? How does it go? It's like something like that isn't like a seventh house. And Jupiter aligns with Mars. Something will happen across the planet. But I think love I think I think I Love Lucy Earth which goes to show it never happened. Never heard. I didn't he made me uncomfortable. Why are they running around naked? What's that all about? It's not shocking. It's what I don't want, you know, not necessary. I do want to jump right to our first call here. Were with Lou from be calm. This is not a question. This is just a call. That's right. It's just it's a guest. It's a guest. Yeah. Lu from web. It's pronounced beacon, isn't it?

Econ? Yes. Hi, David. It's actually Lou and Dean. We're both here now and

you are a you're a brother duo. Correct? That's correct. How's that working for you working with your brothers?

It's gotten better and better over the years.

I've tried to imagine my two kids working together, and only if their job was to fight each other would be the only one.

Who didn't. So we stopped fighting a long time ago. Oh,

nice. Nice. All right. So listen, rather than me giving the so they've developed this new brewing device, but rather than me give the spiel for your product, why don't you just roughly tell people who aren't familiar with it kind of what you got going?

Sure. So the beacon you know, we're, we've been focused on unlocking, you know, a higher quality, Highest Quality Made to Order craft beverage. We come from the coffee industry, and the technology was originally born from coffee when Dean invented it. But the process uses vacuums to pull the air out of organic material. And when the vacuums are released, the liquid goes back in size, cold rain stands for adverse atmosphere confusion. And what we realize is that it is an open technology that really optimizes the flavor extraction from coffees, teas, infused waters cocktails. It allows beverages to be created that have never been able to be created before. And so the patents and the technology is very broad reaching, we're focusing first in the restaurant arena, and interest of working with chefs mixologist and baristas to create great content for the platform. But ultimately, the idea is that this is an internet technology that that we'll bring into the home. So one day, all those recipes that exist out there can be replicated by any consumer.

And it's not spelled like beacon that why you spell it for people so that they can find it on the internet.

Sure, it's became when the website is beacon brew, be kom br ew. And we just felt a little bit differently. But it now says in Beacon like a beacon of light, ignore a pathfinding monitor

right now. So the the net, so the fun, one of the fundamental things is similar to like old school vacuum infusion, where you're doing like pulse cycles of a vacuum to first infuse liquid in and draw it back back out, again, presumably, the pattern has to do with the combination of that with the heating element and the process or control of it.

I won't be explained, but then we have a whole range of intellectual property, but it's the

the process is is is quite simple. Although it's a little bit more complicated than just pulling a vacuum. Specifically, it has to do with just the phases of the vacuum, the depth of the vacuum, the time that it's applied, and or controlled, with, with the intervals in between where it goes back to normal atmosphere. So that's really the key of the technology is the eye controlling the vacuum and the depth of each specific vacuum phase, it allows it to penetrate a determined distance, essentially into the cellular structure of the material. So let's say if we have three, three that are in sequence with a with a pause in between, it allows us to draw the gases out, the solvent goes in, then we go with the next one, go a little bit further and keep going through this other structure, drawing the flavors actually out through the pores of the material. Material Itself is acting as as a filter, like water purifier is at Rock.

Right? Right. So and presumably you have different programs written for different kinds of products. And there's like a lot where you have like a, like a recipe system in it that there's more user just types in what they want. And then you pump it out the other side.

Yes, yes, it's the the recipes are predetermined pre designed by the content partners. There's specific flights that we've designed that allow a very turnkey application as far as finding the best recipes for a specific type of beverage. We've done a lot of research to make it easier for people to use the tool the right way. And to find the optimal setting

right now, are you able to pull the vacuum levels that you need with like a simple like a diaphragm or a wobble pump? Or do you have to have like a larger pump in there? Or what do you guys using?

We're using a small diaphragm pump that was designed for medical equipment

right now. So presumably with a diaphragm pump, you're not taking to like as deep a vacuum level as you would with let's say, like a rotary vane pump and in a commercial in a packer but also you can't suck those kinds of volumes anyway. I mean, those kinds of vacuum levels anyway because a lot of what you're Doing isn't temperature. So you're gonna get boil off a lot before that. So there's a lot of the art of it figuring out how to get enough of a vacuum delta and still have the high temperature without a lot of boil off or what?

Absolutely, absolutely all that is based in the code of the recipe, there is a certainly relationship of the water temperature to the depth of the vacuum, also taking the material and the solvent into account as well. Right. So we certainly don't want to go into a full on boil with by creating a very deep vacuum as that will also reduce the temperature of the liquid. If we're working with something hot. We're working with the ambient beverage, we can go quite a bit further. But there certainly is that that relationship, what's optimal,

one of the things data makes us really unique and very much a an Internet of Things play from a model standpoint is all of the all the code that goes into controlling different parameters, the water temperatures, the whole times different vacuum pressures, different backing durations, and it differs between just two different coffees are the same quality to roast profiles. And, but the beautiful thing about it is because it's it because it's because it's code. And based on you know, our first product line it was built is built exclusively in commercial space by by Frankie. And because of the level of engineering that there has gone into this. What's amazing about is that when that beverage is recreated, it can be recreated. So going back to your question earlier about how there's other methods that have been around for a long time of using manual pumps and manual methods, or manual methods to pull back cues on materials and liquid. This is all about understanding how we control those parameters, how we put them into code, and ultimately how we allow them to be replicated. Based on all the factors that allow you to achieve a precise in beverage the same way that when you bottle a stone beer, you don't need to be in San Diego to drink it to know exactly how good how perfect it should taste. That's our goal over trying to deal with the need to order side.

Right presumably also, like if some knucklehead hits a recipe that's water based and they have an alcohol in there. Like you have to know when you're like it has to know from the pumping curve that stop I'm boiling before I thought I was going to things like this, right? I mean, presumably that has to get built into the kind of lease somewhere, right?

Absolutely. I mean, it's keep in mind, it's a semi automatic piece of equipment. So there's obviously plenty of room for user error, there's obviously there's certainly going to be visual cues, the more you get used to seeing and identifying very quickly whether things are right or wrong. It's not to say that we can actually mix hot water with with an ethanol base and make a beverage because we can. And we've done we've done that with hot toddies, which is quite interesting. So you know there's, it's not just a single beverage in itself, but the system allows for a crossover. So going from a tea to a spirit, and then and a tea and a spirit combined into the same recipe. It's quite quite intriguing.

For instance, we have a drink that that we make using Buffalo Trace because it's a little bit sweeter and we get this beautiful Madagascar vanilla bean. And this both Rishi tea and as well as this is this beautiful black tea from Rishi tea. We put it in the porta filter with the bourbon. So that bourbon is let's say 75 degrees and there's six ounces of it, and we add eight ounces of to enjoy the water. So now we're at somewhere between 108 140 degrees math is my strong suit. We are able to extract within about 90 seconds, a verse from that bourbon and key flavors from that tea and vanilla into the water and the bourbon is we increased the temperature but we're now have the Berberian they're acting as a solvent as well. But to your point, it's the digital part is only one side. The other side is the art and that is the art that occurs on the content partner side whether it's a coffee roaster, a tea company or a chef or a mixologist is creating a recipe and has the knowledge and expertise of how to source and curate and prepares the ingredients. And then the second part is understanding the parameters and having the right code having a recipe so you when you put the two together the magic occurs.

Now I never knew if it Frankie or Frankie

it depends where you are in the world in America we call it Frankie. Frankie and in Europe it's Frankie. It's F ra n k e. One of the reasons we chose to work with them is, as you realize this technology was very broad reaching, have applications in, in home applications and vending and bottling way down way down the road, we knew we needed to be, we needed to be flawless in the foodservice space where the content will be created. And as an example, when we looked at other boutique companies that were bringing technologies to market, a lot of them were building these technologies in garages on their own, which really is very exciting and, and, and definitely has an appeal to it. But there's obviously a lot of costs and a lot of risks that go into it. We chose Frankie because they're a multi billion dollar organization. And as an example, when McDonald's wanted to do MC cafe and they said they needed alHuda 1000 locations activated in one year, and these machines can be down for more than four hours. And you need to be call centers and service network setup to to protect this machine to be built to a certain spec. It was Franchi that one that and executed on it. So our equipment is being built on the same same caliber on the same platform.

I mean, the interesting thing about that particular company is they're freaking huge, right, but in terms of the US their penetration from like, I don't know in the QSR world but in like the fine restaurant worlds really only in the coffee sector, like but they have a huge business outside of that in Europe and all over the world. I wonder why they never like they sell autoclaves they sell, you know, all sorts of stuff. I wonder why they don't have the penetration and the other segments here. It's an interesting thing. I've always wondered about what those guys Yeah, I

can't speak to their business. But But what I can say that, you know, they definitely have the infrastructure and they've been incredibly they've been an amazing partner and incredibly I guess, non traditional in terms of stepping out of their, their big infrastructure organizational norms to be very innovative and adaptive with us as as entrepreneurs. So it's really sort of best of both worlds and that, you know, we're beacon get to still be essentially be centrally involved from the innovation and ideation and marketing standpoint with them, but they bring, you know, decades and decades of experience and you know, unbelievable, unbelievable infrastructure that we could never practically pragmatically raise the money or built.

Alright, so you don't have a unit yet that people can futz around with at home, where can they go, like, who's who's buying these things now, how much they cost?

Sure, so so this is purely a commercial unit, the, the the market price that the DC finding being sold for somewhere around the 14k mark, ouch. Now, if you look at it from a commercial standpoint, you really only need to put you know, you know, 20 t's through it a day to break even within a matter of months, we have customers who have gone from, as an example, on the T side who had no tea beverage business, no, just try tea sellers. Maybe they did maybe 10 Hot teas a day because they weren't promoting it, to putting this in and now having 70 Hot teas a day. So it's called transformational. The other thing is, this point now is that because it's an open technology, it allows you to deliver that level of quality across any beverage and so it allows you to do things you can never even do before as an example are infused water capabilities are unmatched and really big cannot be achieved by anything else. Our ability to do meter iced teas, we can brew loose leaf tea and concentrated over ice to make the fresher tasting iced tea and 90 seconds to do that will take eight minutes so you wouldn't be in the game anywhere else and doing it. So from business standpoint, it's purely it's a moneymaker. It's a commercial machine focused on we've just started putting in market. We got our NSF certification late last fall is numerous companies have been purchasing them as dozens. Well over 50 that something 1500 They've already been purchased or going into market. You can begin to see it at Whole Foods in Chicago. They're doing great things with it. He actually sent down in park state south we're gonna be with him. Actually, this Sunday, Panther coffee in Miami. They're rolling out multiple locations. We're gonna be with them actually, on Wednesday. There's Brendon being Gaines, Festo doppia a really innovative he has ever watched and they have got some incredible investors and incredible model. What they're doing in the health space food health QSR model is, is really disruptive. They're building an entire they're using it for their keys in their their infused waters. Gabriel Cruz, up in in Midtown is opening up a new restaurant. He has one

does your website have a list of places? Like he's like that? So like, if someone is lives? I don't know, if they live? I don't know, where do they live? Does Cleveland, they live in Cleveland? Like, can they go on on your website and find someone like, you know, close to them that has one or no,

not yet. But what I can say is that there's that in addition to boutiques that it's very likely you're going to see some significant multi unit players in the craft beverage space, that are gonna make this more accessible on a nationwide level. So it's right now a lot of them are not allowed to buy in as with any new product, isn't this innovative, that innovator demographic, which is actually represents about 2% of the market, the next stage is early adopters. And we're really sort of still in that innovator customer early adopter phase of people using it, but the results have been, you know, we're seeing increases of sales at 165% within established beverage categories, people.

Now one last question when they have to go to break. Are you worried at all? I guess not because you're working with Frankie. But are you worried about being Cloverbud? Where like, some big person buys you and then crushes technology into tiny pieces?

No. And that's exactly why we partner with Frankie. And that we're, we're building this thing to bring it around the world. And most importantly, we're building this to populate the beacon craft cloud, which, once the content is up there, it's gonna allow us to answer questions before, it's allowed us to move very quickly into the home space. Because the content will exist, the home model is much simpler for us to build. And so we already are adding content partners like Rishi tea and counterculture coffee. And it just, it's like apps. And once those are there, when home units come out, you're going to know exactly what you love. And you're going to pull those apps down. So we can really pull recipes that you've created Dave, and they can have their own cocktail or water or coffee recipe, and they hit that button as long as they have the ingredients during the game. I don't

know if they want the recipes that we created, right? So. Anyway, Gentlemen, thanks so much. Look it up beat it's BK o n.com. Right beacon. Yes, you got it day to day check in and check it out. Really interesting new technology. Thanks for coming on the show. We'll be right back with a little more cooking issues.

Hello out there, it's Steve Jenkins. I'm with fairway markets. White Leghorn red wattle, Bourbon red, Navajo churro. These aren't names you're likely to hear at a fairway butcher counter or any other counter today. But before the rise of factory farming you would have and at Heritage Foods USA you still do. Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity, small family farms, and a fully traceable food supply. You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmers to buy from them and Heritage Foods is honored to represent a network of family farmers, our Teasle producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food system and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate whether it's heritage Turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork or Navajo children lamb chops is the righteous kind from healthy animals of sound genetics that have been treated humanely and allowed to pursue their natural instincts. It's a simple fact animals raised according to this philosophy taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them. Visit us at Heritage Foods usa.com For more information,

ya have to eat them to savor love that you have to eat or to save them. Well, not that particular one because he's dead. You know what I mean? But you know, in general, I get it. I get it. You're saying Welcome back to Cooking issues. Stars. How you doing? Good. Yeah, anything good happening today after the show? Oh, iron sail. You're gonna say say no, you say it. You got the you got the reverb AMI Jack. Oh, yeah, here we go. That happens at 232 We'll be there to around two to 30 You know, bring cash and a truck because I'm not touching it. I wore a light blue shirt today. I didn't wear my I want to see this happen. You know? We're gonna be like, I'm gonna take these things. Or we're just gonna be we're gonna be sipping all booze straight out of the bottle. I have the waivers to sign everything. Yeah, yeah. If you buy something, it's dangerous. Hey, it's on you. It's on you, baby. You don't I mean? And also one more thing I have a request. First of all, I missed this question. It's too late because I didn't know when the thing was. But Julian wrote in saying I'm traveling to San Francisco for the WWDC, which is, I think, the Apple developer thing this year, and I'm lucky enough to have some free time I didn't realize before the conference, and it just started, so he missed his free time. So tweet to him a tweet to me for him any suggestions you have for his remaining time in the San Francisco Bay area of places to go? I need to go back there soon. I forget why, but I have to go back to San Francisco soon. And then I can have my own fresh recommendations. But I hope you're having a good time there. Julian want you to tweet us and tell us where you went? Whether you enjoyed it, right says yeah, did you enjoy it? Did you have a good time? Okay, also I have a request isn't it goes a request out. To anyone who listens to this show who lives in a mountainous region. I'm interested in Turkish coffee that is produced at altitude. And so if you live in kind of like you're in, you're like 6000, that's like around 2000 or 1800 meters or somewhere in there. Like the boiling point of water should just about be at optimum coffee extraction temperature. And I want to know whether your Turkish coffee is especially delicious, I don't know your natural debrief and stop and seeing that movie. Today is especially delicious. I want to know whether it's any different from us, you know, chumps down here at sea level producing, producing coffee. So tweet me and let me know, because I haven't done that Turkish coffee man story. Which one I mean, the cover maker story, you didn't do it? Well, when I when I when I run my own tests, I'll talk about the guy like I look, I have a nice look. For those of you that are actually Turks, you're gonna get mad if I call the Turkish coffee maker and II break because you use the term e brick to mean something else. But here in the United States, when we refer to a Turkish coffee maker, we call it an E brick and the Greeks who don't care about what anyone calls anything in Turkey, they call it a bricky. Right? He's like a bricky. The Mayans from Greece. It's very nice. The Stasi bought it for me. And it was very cheap. Because as we all know, the economy in Greece, not so bueno. But it feels I'll tell the story later, but they gotta get some questions. But I'm interested, very interested in Turkish coffee. And I am very interested in rubbing it in the face of snobs who think that Turkish coffee is not a good product can't be a good product, because it doesn't fit their particular idea of what good coffee should be. And anytime somebody does something as a cultural ritual for hundreds and hundreds of years, I'm just gonna go ahead and say there's probably something to it right now. There's probably something to it, or people wouldn't keep freaking doing it. You know, like crappy percolators from the 50s. Like, No one sits around doing those anymore. You know, why do you use a percolator? You use a freaking percolator when it goes go bloop, bloop, bloop into the plastic tarp. You put it on your stove, and it goes. Yeah, yeah, it died. Mr. Coffee, it died. Yeah, Mitt fine. You know what I mean, or like Moka Pot like has its own kind of like advantages, you know what I mean, it has its own kind of its own kind of brew. But the fact of the matter is, is that these technologies have sustained themselves because they produce something that people freaking like, so why thumbing your nose at the idea. Let's just figure out what all the parameters are in Turkish coffee. I'll let you know one thing about Turkish coffee is that every single American I've seen do it does it wrong, they do it freakin wrong. For those of you that those you don't know, I don't really have time to go into it. But here it is. So like Turkish coffee, like extremely finely ground, almost like a powder. Right? So whether you mix it into the water when it's already hot or not depends on where where you make it like whether you're doing it in Serbia, and Turkey, Greece, whatever. But we're not going to get into that. So you put the pattern thing in, and then it comes up in forms of froth which is called a boil, right? And in America, they always say you boil it three times, right? But if you look at Americans do it. They're such jokers, right? That what we do is we let it boil up and then we don't do anything. We let it settle back down. And we just boil that three times and pour it and then you've spoon the froth off the top. Now, you didn't look. You don't have to go to Turkey right to know this. This is why YouTube was invented. Not really, but this is why I liked the fact that YouTube was invented because I can go watch a video of like 12 different folks in Turkey making turkish coffee and instantly realize that as soon as it froths up, first of all, they cook it in sand. Right? And that's why I haven't tested yet because I haven't gotten the sand. I didn't want to buy a 50 pound sack of it at Home Depot. Because as the Stasi likes to say, I'm not a real man, I'm a straw man. Anyway, and I was like, I don't need nothing. I can't lift the 50 pounds of sand stars. It's what the hell am I going to do it the other 48 Freaking past throw in the trash. Anyways, I need a small amount of sand. So you put sand into like into a pan, put it over coals and even sand. Anyway, so it boils up, it makes a froth you then pour that froth out right now into the cup. Then you let it froth again then you pour that froth out again then maybe if you want you do it a third time and then you pour it out and you leave a lot of the grounds in the cup. That's the way to do it. And I've never seen an American do it that way. Maybe that's why A snobby Americans thumbed their noses at it, because they just have no idea how to properly make it anyway, I'm gonna go through the investigation. Why? Because I enjoy it. Now, if I can get to a question before they unplug my mic and kick me out here.

Tom wrote in to tell me if I answer this question or not, for instance, like JSON wrote in about gimlets. And I think I answered it already. Jason, if I didn't answer your Gimli question your basil, give him a question. It write it back for me again, say, Hey, jerk, you didn't answer it. You know what I mean? And, and I will. So Tom wrote in, and he says, Hello to Anastasia Jack and the rest of the crew, which very nice. Finally up to date to the podcast, I've got three questions ordered by priority. I've been using my sensor circulator been getting amazing results on fish and pork belly. But when I tried the $100 oxtail recipe of Modernist Cuisine, I do this. Okay, I found off flavors and gas development starting around 50 hours of circulation. The same thing happened with the Modernist Cuisine, 72 hours short ribs 58 or 60 degrees Celsius recipe, which I luckily got out before they actually went off. I had the oxtail and ribs backpack that my local butcher with a chamber vac sealer. Now, I assume the reason has to do with bacteria not getting killed off, which may be due to slightly big water bath. But the short ribs were fixed in the center. And I measured the temperature throughout the bath with a thermometer indicating constantly correct temperature every everywhere. Any ideas what went wrong? All right. Yes, I have some ideas. I think what happened is, like, let's say you had a bunch of short ribs, if you have to tell me right, but let's say you had a bunch of short ribs in one package, right? So there's sauce and microbes and all sorts of like nastiness right inside of the bag in the center of the bag. Right. And I think what happens is it just took too long for the temperature that killed temperatures to make it to the inside of the bag, right. So if you were to take a block as my favorite example, I don't know why. But if you were to take a block of meat, whole meat that had never been pierced with a knife, like let's say, don't kill and cook whales, but let's say you had a chunk of whale flesh, single chunk of whale flesh, because I can't think of any other animal big enough to do this, right? That is the size of like a Chevy small block engine, right. And you were to put that into a bag one piece, right? And then you were to circulate it right, then it doesn't matter really how long it takes for the center have that whale trunk to get up to cooking temperature because the inside of the meat is fundamentally sterile, unless it had an infection, or unless you stabbed it with a knife all the way through to the center. Now, as soon as you get in a situation where because the whale meat is extremely, you know, it's very, it's very lean, it's a whale. You know what I mean? Well, they got a lot of blubber, but I think the meat itself the muscles, I don't know how marbled it is, I've never seen I've never cooked well meat, obviously, because I'm not for killing whales. But as soon as you take big pieces of lard or blubber, and you start like penetrating the meat within like putting stuff in the middle of it, or if you start hacking up that big piece of meat and then laminating it together with sauce. Or if you take a bunch of different ribs, and, and short, you know, short ribs or whatever you're using oxtail, and you pack them all into one bag. Well, now you have contamination in the middle of your bag. So if it takes six hours for the middle of the bag to get up to kill temperatures, you have plenty of time for bacteria to start growing and puffing the bag out. Once the bag puffs out, then you can have a reduced temperature everywhere and it and continue to grow and it can go off. So I think that's what happened. Because the temperatures that you're using are clearly high enough to kill everything. So even if you're cooking at home. And if you're not going to be doing portion control work, I always recommend if you can to bag each large each piece like each ox tailor each rib in a separate bag if you can, and barring that, because also that if you lose a bag you only lose one piece of meat but and you know if if that jerk who said they were going to come over to dinner doesn't come over to dinner, you can always just chill that bag without contaminating the rest of your bed. However that happens to us. Like they get there like I am late all the time, right, so then you could take that bag that you'd plan to serve to your ungrateful houseguest and put it back into your children and put it back in the fridge. So it's convenient a lot of times, although wasteful, the plastic to have them individually bad. But barring that, you should have all of your individual pieces of meat in a single layer. And I think that might solve your problem when I say single layer such that the bag can get all the way around it. Right? So if you have a bunch that are laminated together even you know it could cause problems. I think that's what's happening. Second problem is on centrifuges via my university I had the fortune of using a centrifuge to make some and I answered the P butter question. People are questioning thinking and say okay, I remember answering a question. Listen, if I didn't answer the rest of your questions, Tom, let me know and I'll get to them. You can ask me more questions. One more question. One more question. One more question. Okay, let's see. Let's see what this one is. Hey, Dave, Jack and Annie Poppins. This is from Christian I love the show discovered it out to my buddies at Arden restaurant here in Milwaukee styles. You love Milwaukee. It's one of the things he like hates biscuits loves Milwaukee called in to get recipe for brand new old fashioned slushies for their late night ramen transformation. And my wife and I just bought a house congrats and discover the previous owners had never installed a water line into the freezer. What the hell is this guys doing? What are they doing? How do you not have a water line and your people icemakers good icemaker good. into the freezer. So we are iceless barring a midsummer snowstorm. Even up there I don't think you get them. You know, I'm saying Do you know that the DAX used to when he was roasting coffee in the in the winter he would run out and snow chill it. He over overrode it and DAX wanted to go into business selling snow chilled DAX is dark roast no chilled coffee and I was like good luck with that DAX Good luck. And I would support him but that's a hard that's a hard business model. Because you have to wait for snow or move to Sweden or something. Okay, so we're ISIS barring a midsummer snowstorm you can probably have a line installed you can by the way, but before doing that I wanted to get your thoughts on making ice at home we basically have two uses one the rapid cooling during cooking, blanching bringing cooked ice cream, bass or yogurt down standard beer cooler filling and to ice for cocktails. considering getting a greater than 300 ollar standalone icemaker for rapid cooling and making cubes using the cooler and freezer technique described. You know on Dave sold his website for bar is how you set up a good home ice program from scratch. And he recommendations for inexpensive ice makers that could work for both the cooking and bar applications. Thanks, Christian. All right, look. This poll that used to be my telephone, the Okay. Let me give you some good and bad news. The good news is what's there's no good news like I would get the expensive icemaker. Well, okay, look, what do I have I got you know, I got I got flat back because I pronounced it incorrectly. I'm gonna say it the way I say it, and then someone can write it again and tell me how to actually pronounce it the minute a walk. And then a toe Manitoba, Manitowoc. That's the company, the icemaker company that I have at home. Commercial icemaker, I would get an undercounter commercial icemaker and I would try to find some knucklehead who's getting rid of it. Now the problem is they use a lot of energy, right, they use a lot of energy, because they're constantly making ice, right? Definitely what you really should do is just drill a hole in your freezer and put a water line in and then buy a and most likely your freezer has a space in the back for you to put the water line in and most likely you can just put in a you can put in an icemaker because I've done that before, you know get a filter and an icemaker and do it, you know, run like a quarter inch line of copper to it. And that's just gonna make ice this really you want kind of crappy ice for your normal chilling, you don't want the big blocks and then you can just do like freezer things. But if you're going to have, what you didn't mention is that you're going to put seltzer water on tap. Now assuming that you like seltzer water, and who doesn't, right, like I use a cold chiller, and I have that in the bottom of a commercial ice machine. So I always have decent ice on hand all the time because it makes it I use a very nice Manitowoc. And the reason I like it is because you can it makes a nice kind of large cube. It's weird octagonal shape. It looks like those little jello cup shapes. But you can shut it off because they're very loud. So if if someone in the house says I got so loud, you can shut it off for like two hours and we'll come back on and continue to make ice. But that thing, I use it to chill actually, when I make my big cooler of ice, I use hot water from the tap and then throw those ice cubes into it to get the temperature down without including a lot of gas by pointing back and forth, then put the cooler in the freezer and go from there. So the best from a budget standpoint is to aftermarket install your own icemaker into your freezer because they make ice on a cycle but don't require a lot of water and energy and they actually store the ice without melting whereas a commercial ice maker is constantly making ice and letting it melt down. The quality of the ice in the home in the inside of the freezer ones is never quite as high. So you're always going to want to make some ice in the cooler, but it's a lot less energy intensive and a lot cheaper. So that's my recommendations. back next week was clicking new shoes.

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