Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information visit heritage foods usa.com.

I'm David volti. Host of the speakeasy you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. Your host coming to you live from a British pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday this time exactly. Freaking 12 How do you like that? Check?

Incredible.

Yeah, on the heritage Radio Network. 1012 we can stay probably till what like 1215 till we get the evil stairs. You

got a full show today?

Yeah, well, we need it because we have so many dang questions, and we haven't been able to establish a ketchup episode or something. We should literally do an episode about the condiment ketchup.

Yes. Someone who was gonna sponsor ketchup sponsor was gonna sponsor Yeah, but then we had

all kinds of like turmoil bad debt, fast turnover to faster turnover. joined as usual witness darcia The Hammer Lopez. Howdy. Alright. And we got Jack and the engineering booth today who was that? I didn't see who the other person in engineering Booth was from the backend Maggie

and it's her first day first hour as an intern here.

Wow. Whatever. Say hi. Computer writing. Hey, Maggie. Oh, yeah. Where are you? Where do you hail from? Maggie? Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Are you hipster Brooklyn or old school Brooklyn. Like suburban mom, Brooklyn or ex suburban mom. Brooklyn. Wait, so you like you are an ex suburban mom. No, my mom is. So you moved here from the suburbs? Yeah, yeah. Which ones? New Jersey. The great state of New Jersey. The Garden State, like nice jersey or turnpike jersey. Nice jersey. No offense to turnpike jersey. Call your questions in to 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 I have we have a plethora of questions to answer going to London by the way on On Monday we have an event at imbibe live 2015 on Monday at the hotel dandelion which is not spelled like we spell is that how the Brits spell dandelion you think so? Maybe? It's like, dandy line, right? Dandy line? A lion Wait a lion we spelt like a lion alone. They spell it like Leon Yeah, like dandy Leon, or something like this. Maybe that's maybe it's French

but it was like sounded like you're saying dandy lowing down there Leon like a dandy loin.

Oh dandy line. That would be kind of gross thing for us to talk about here. It would fit quite well with the with the Vagina Monologues now, not to reopen old wounds. Okay. So let's What? What? Nothing. What? Yeah, nothing by the way, but before we start even though I don't have time to talk about anything other than a straight cookie, she's the Stasi and I are devotees of the illegal firework and the Stasi just found out that she will have AX I didn't buy I made the trek to the great state of New Hampshire where one can live free and die and purchase almost any kind of firework with the exception. Jack no bottle rockets in New Hampshire. Really? No? No, you can buy a you can buy 500 grams worth of black powder packed into tubes in a box that shoot 200 feet into the air and explode in in balls of fire. But a bottle rocket that's dangerous Brown. Wow. Yeah, that makes no sense. Right? Does not makes no it makes no sense. Like the rules are so crazy. They also don't allow this does make sense. They don't allow Ma's and cherry bombs. They don't want little kids like blowing their fingers off, I guess. bottle rockets. Why? Because kids shooting with each other. I mean, that's what we used to do. I don't know. So stars. I found out though that, that Pennsylvania, the rules in Pennsylvania are set by the way for those of you that don't live near the New York area, like New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and I think Delaware are like the firm block of stick in the mud regarding fireworks and their enjoyment like just not available here. Connecticut recently changed their laws, allowed fireworks again and then disallowed some again. So now, in Connecticut, you can only buy like you can't buy Roman candles. You can only buy fountains, those things on the ground that shoot up sparks and you're like, Man, I wish this would blow up in the air right size. And now you're going to see it. Man, I wish this would blow up inside of the air.

What about Rhode Island?

Now Rhode Island is part of the it's part of the black bloc of evil. Yeah, yeah. I mean, imagine if Rhode Island Rhode Island. Here's a suggestion to you, Rhode Island, our smallest state. Why don't you allow first of all you have like lots of great places to live fireworks and we're an island. Why don't you make them legal in Rhode Island and then literally the entire New York Connecticut metro area instead of having to drive all the way to New Hampshire to go to the great State of Rhode Island to buy their fireworks. Anyway, Pennsylvania, Jackie might find this enjoyable the place closest place is right near Port Jervis. New York. It's only an hour or 50 outside of New York or something like this. No, Rhode Island is the same as Connecticut. Oh, you can buy the ground sparklers. Yeah. Okay. Why don't why? Anyway, but my point is, in Pennsylvania, it is illegal. If you're a Pennsylvania resident, it is illegal for you to buy the big bad aerial fireworks that we all want. Right? However, if you show up in Pennsylvania and provide an out of state license, they will sell you anything.

Anything right? Even if it's like a New York license. Yeah,

that's what's messed up. They don't weird. They don't care if it's legal in your state or not. How do they know where you're going to light it. But for some reason, if you show up with a Pennsylvania license, even though you swear on a stack of Bibles that you're going to like these things off in a state where it's legal, right? If you're a Pennsylvania resident you are as we like to say S O L you can apply for a permit as a Pennsylvania resident to purchase them. It's laws are so so weird. You know what I mean? I mean, I realized that fireworks are dangerous, lots of things are dangerous fireworks are also what's the word I'm looking for? Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. I think that's the word. Do you know that? I looked it up the national fire the NFPA National Fire Protection Agency eventually anyway the people who make the fire codes they have a whole campaign you know ban ban consumer fireworks right because people are injured and some people are killed every you know what the majority of the one single thing that causes more injuries with fireworks than any other check any guesses? Like I don't know drinking? Well, yeah, no. sparklers. Oh,

I see spark really? Yeah. How do you injure yourself on a sparkler?

Well, like the classic case is some parent gave their three year old a sparkler and then turned away turned away. She walked into their into their house, dropped it in a trash bucket burned down the house and killed somebody. Yeah,

there was a funny moment once where my girlfriend we were at her country house and she wanted to light some incense in the kitchen or in the living room rather and she lit a sparkler instead.

Wow, that that's different. They look kind of similar. Do they look exactly the same? Yeah. So so like then do you have all sorts of evil ideas of pranking temples go to go to like, you know, a temple and put a bunch of what what is supposed to be peaceful comps but sparklers are nice. It's crazy

that most fireworks are allowed in southern and Midwest states. You would think that

it's every state but law Like the New England stick in the mud states and you know New York, California, Mid Atlantic, California last summer I thought they're the same as Connecticut and first of all like California, like irresponsible in a lot of places to like fireworks because of the immense like fire hazards because of the tremendous drought going on. I mean a lot of it has to do with the fact that wherever there's a lot of people in close proximity and the assumption is no one has any common sense and you can hurt a lot more people when you're you know, I'm not saying fireworks should be legal in New York City

to is fine which is even more dry like it's flat

and like desert not that you don't have trees whatever I'm not gonna get into it I'm not going to get into it like you know where my where we know where I used to go where my wife's family was living in Arizona. I mean, what are you going to burn down? You know what I mean? Yeah, burn you know, burn some teddy bear Troy down. Thank God, those things are the devil. You know what I mean? Anyway, Tom wrote in no offense to you like Teddy Bear trenches. Like you know, someone's gonna be like, I like Teddy Bear Choya well then go kick one and have it go through your freaking foot and like try to have fun get all the spines out nobody likes Teddy virtually I don't know. You know what choices are they little characters have really fuzzy ones that the teddy bears are the ones that are so insidious that the claim is not true is that they kind of jump out and get at you because like you brush up near it, they'll go through like leather shoes. These spines will somehow work their way through it's you know how Troy is spelled right? It's spelled Charla. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, Tom wrote in about apparently I missed a piece question. So unfortunately you missed answering my question on centrifuging Peasy also had the $100 oxtail question where the bag was inflating. I haven't figured out so the the thing was he was cooking the oxtails at a fairly high temperature high enough to kill bacteria for like 100 hours and the bags blew up kind of like one day into the process. So but I don't recall you should right back I don't know whether the it's weird when bags when Suvi bags blow up way down line in the process. So it could be a couple of things going on like one if like if there's bones in the in the thing or uncooked veg, like air could be coming out of that over time and inflating but usually that's going to happen relatively early in the process like a couple of hours in not like you know 20 or 30 hours in it's also I guess possible that like some thermophilic thermophilic bacteria are surviving and blowing up but I don't know I'd have to do more research on not thermophilic bacteria for dirty bird show. Yeah,

I got an actual teddy bear sitting at it. Shabbat

you wrote teddy bear holla you wrote teddy bear holla SC O L L A s s ch O L L A not? Bolo teddy bear. Holla is my new that imagine if you wanted a teddy bear holla and someone sent you a teddy bear Choya and you opened up the package and got all those spines embedded in your like face somehow, like it came off into your face, it'd be a complete nightmare. Second question I had on centrifuges. via my university I had the fortune of using a centrifuge to make some p butter I used fresh peas and didn't get them to blend too thoroughly. I assumed two hours at 16,000 and a half GE should be able to puree the peas, but unfortunately, it didn't change their integrity. Blending should have been done better. But is there something else I should have taken into account? The recipe calls for frozen peas which might have destroyed the cell structure and allowed better blending perhaps what is worse is that one of the containers broke mid midway through centrifuging, destroying the goodwill on their side forever using the centrifuge again. And I have to look for another place with this because because I use something solid EVPs instead of the usual liquid or is this just wear and tear and unfortunate to happen with me? Yeah, you just got some bad luck. The other thing that can happen is if if you use the wrong bottles, if you use a flat bottom bottle that's not meant to go into centrifuge or you use a sharp conical bottle and you put it into a round bottom rotor. You know, anytime you have to deform the bottom of it, like you want the bottle shape to match the shape of the bottom of the rotor. So if you don't do that, then yeah, it could be your fault for using the wrong you know, flask or vile but presumably they gave it to you. Right? So or maybe you bought it I don't know. The other thing is you could use one with the wrong composition but again, the fact that it's a solid shouldn't matter because the the bottles supposed to get smashed against the bottom of the rotor and stay that way for the rest of them but they do have wear and tear and they do eventually break. So I don't know but you know, that I don't know regarding the other problem you had of it not working 16,000 gs 17,000 gs is not nearly not nearly not even close to being enough GS to actually rupture the cell structure of you know or to break apart. The you know, the plant structure of a of peas not enough at all. You need to blend it a lot better. I would use frozen peas as they said or freeze your fresh peas, which is going to shatter some of the cell structure due to the action of the ice crystals. And in fact, you know you might I've done even for some things repeat freeze thaw cycles because each time you freeze and thought you destroy the structure a little more, make sure you blend the hell out remember, like 20,000 genes I mean, while 4000 5000 G's isn't even enough to pop air bubbles, you know what I mean? On the surface of some centrifuging stuff 20,000 G's is is not even enough to clarify lime juice on its own. So it's not even enough to pull cloudiness out of lime juice, right, you need like 2720 27,000 used to do that. And that doesn't even pull everything else down. So 16,000 G's seems like a lot, but in fact, is not enough to completely obliterate the structure. And remember, if you're actually talking about really obliterating cellular structure, they go to many, many, many higher higher G's in that I would have guessed that like 50,000 G's would be enough to do it you want but you know, I don't know because that's a guess. But again, I wouldn't say I would just say that you know, your solution would be better blending. Alex wrote in from Toronto regarding carrots. I have dear Dave, Anastasia and Jack, I have a question about carrots. Very easy. I like that someone says write about what it's about carrots. In a recent Cook's Illustrated I haven't read this one in I was subscriber for like decades. I don't know that somehow. Like it was always given to me as a gift. I don't get it anymore. ever happened? Like someone's like, I'm just not gonna give this to him as a gift anymore. And then again, that happened to you on magazines. New Yorker. Did you buy it now? No, I make somebody else get it for me. Why? Oh, but you could join NPR and get it. But you don't want to join NPR? You just want someone to get it for you. Free gift. Well, anyone out there who likes Anastasia just get her sister's already taken care of. She's here. Yeah. So you're you're covered in the future. It's so weird. Like, like so many things like that other people like you hate how is it that you liked the New Yorker? I don't know. Is it because you liked before? You knew other people like that? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. Very unusual for you like something that's well liked. SNL. Yeah, I guess that's true. I suppose both of those things are kind of New York. Well, SNL is not New York centered. I mean, it happens to be here. But it's not like a New York thing. But the new you hate almost anything associated with New York that's popular. Because you have to look at the people around you every day that like it.

But I can do I can read the New Yorker and watch SNL by myself.

What happens when you're on the subway and you see someone reading the New Yorker? You're like, Oh, don't ruin it. For me. That would happen. Yeah. Anyway, in recent books illustrated, I think it was three or four issues ago, they published a recipe for braised carrots that involve like the word raising, in neutral, neutral and brazen, okay, braised carrots that involve par cooking them at a low temperature, then finishing them in a hot pan, they say the holding the cares between 120 160 will induce enzymatic activity that will firm up the structure of the carrot. They call it persistent firmness, and they split it in this recipe so that even when the character is subsequently overcooked in the pan, they still come out with some texture. I have tried this using my circulator. And as far as I can tell, it does make a difference making for a more meaty texture in the final product. Is this a known thing? If so, will it work with other vegetables? Presumably at other temperatures? Are you aware of any easily accessible resources that could tell me more? Yes, it does work on other things. Oh, also, I'd like to say I was able to crush the Saltine Challenge with 10 saltines. Not six. No, you know, this is Alex from towel. I just being like, you know, a figure like he's got to feel pretty good about then. So I was given him a minute. He was able to turn saltines in one minute. Let's have to you have to ask. announcer voice. Whoa, it's called out Alex. It's call out filming yourself pounding the tent. And the question is, I don't understand. Like what version of the Saltine Challenge gets you to 10 let's you did two to two but five twos is a lot harder than my guess. For four and three and four, four and 244 and two, right? For cracker. The only way to really challenge it has to do multiple crackers at once. Jack Jerry Jack, have you done a Saltine Challenge?

Oh, but I'm going to of course you are. Yeah,

but you got to film it.

I will. I think I can crush 10 No,

you can't the most I've seen I think the most I've seen is either 10 or 12 is the most I've seen like it's 60 seconds is a short amount of time the guy I say the most I've ever seen is 12 and he did 444

That sounds like but my strategy would be Jack.

You must show an open mouth before the end of the Yeah. Open mouth. Yeah, I'll have it by next week. The rules are there can be like particulate matter jammed into your molars But there can't be like a bunch of stuff rolling around on the inside your mouth and definitely shoved up like you know you can't shove a whole cracker in the side of your face. No, but like if it's gonna look like a chipmunk I'll see it no chip monkeying no chip monkey Yeah, although I enjoy that I enjoy this like this like cheating strategy. You know, Yale had a drinking game and I used to kind of use that I use you can't chipmunk on that either. Other people tried anyways.

Over Color by the way, okay.

Well let me finish Yes, yes, God but but rather than trying to generate more saliva I just forced down the dry crumbs. It hurt, but it worked and I won the bet yours Alex from Toronto. See, swallow through the pain is another interesting strategy. That might work well for me. Alright, so I'm gonna take this caller and they're gonna get back Have

you done this challenge? Yeah, do it many

times. Well, what did you What did you get? I got them all in but not swallowed.

I'm not gonna get into that. She wasn't able to make the six. Hey, caller, you're on the air.

Hey, this is Bradley from San Francisco. And I wanted to call back. You give me some advice on metering chamber and coffee pakka a couple of months ago, yes, it's both both turned out really well. And the advice is super helpful. The one thing that so when we when we were making the coffee drinks, instead of using cream, I had some non dairy friends. And we had some almond milk or chata. That was like Khalifa farms, almond milk, or chata. And so we substituted that, and people actually preferred the almond milk or chata version of the Catholic Toba. And that, but it was it was a huge success. I wanted to think,

do you think that's a reason you didn't get to a regional thing? Or do you think that they they actually prefer the taste? Or you think at the San Francisco thing?

What Oh, no, I prefer the taste like it. It added kind of like, a nice like cinnamon enote to the coffee thing. Which was, which was really nice. And it's it, I don't think it was a regional thing. Because it was like, the overwhelming choice.

But what if you had added cinnamon to

live in San Francisco that our younger people aren't actually from San Francisco? So

it was just a spiciness of it, though, like, do you think adding cinnamon to the recipe in general would make it better? or No?

Maybe? I mean, cuz I think that we didn't, I didn't try it. But you know, I think if you have like a latte and you had, you know, cinnamon on the top, it's like a nice flavor to it. So. But I think that that was like the kind of flavor that came through with the door chata that really worked well. And so I'm planning a, an all oval dinner party. And I had a question because in the past, you talked about feeding clams, you know, to kind of change their flavor. And I'd read that you can feed mealworms in all in order to kind of like enhance their flavor before doing it. And I wanted to do like a mealworm toffee for dessert. I was wondering if you'd had any experience with that?

Well, I've never prepared me alarms. Let me ask you, oh, by the way, you know, the old legend that mealworms can eat their way out from the insides of lizards and stuff that you feed them to you know, that that you know that a legend, right.

I mean, I've worked in a pet I might only like, you know, I've worked on a pet shop. And that's never happened to any of the lizards. I've said mealworms to

Yeah, I know. You're familiar with the Urban lead. It's been proven false, by the way, like in the in the book by Mary Roach. Golf. She like goes with some scientists, I think and they disprove it, so it doesn't happen. Although I personally thought it happened to me when I was a kid. It's just that my lizard happened to die I happen to be feeding in mealworms and something happened to eat inside but they're like, you know, not related as it happens, right but but to go back to the straight mealworms so in other words, no one should worry that in eating a meal worm that it's going to somehow burrow out through their body because it just it doesn't actually happen this is not a thing that actually happens all right, yeah,

I mean well the the idea they had was I was going to cook them add them to a toffee and then kind of break it up and then put it at the bottom of pannacotta so it gives it like a little bit of crunch when I want to get on molded and I wanted I had heard that you could do it with a you like cinnamon was like something that like you could feed them and then then you purge them for a couple days and then cook them

bless the acid thing if you're gonna purge them you're gonna purge them then like I don't know whether or not like they're actually going to get the I mean unless you're just talking maybe they get it on the outside of them I don't know but are they washed you're a nurse is the idea that you can feed them purge them then wash them and they still have the flavor me it's possible at that point you fry them but mean an urge but they're never they're fried basically live without going through a rinse so the question then my mind is is is there cinnamon on the outside of these guys are they actually flavor themselves from the inside out? Remember like my whole fascination with this stretches back to the Henry Winkler Movie Night Shift right where the one of the characters with who was in that movie looked at upstairs. One of the characters in that movie used to always carry a tape recorder with them and be like Note to self one of which was Note to self feed the man is to the tuna before you kill it right before it so they it makes it tough in the tuna salad. So I've had this idea in my head since I was like a little kid. But with mealworms meaning you You'd have to like, try it because in any event, it makes a great story. Right? But the other thing is if you're feeding it only food grade stuff, is there a need to purge it?

I mean, I don't know. Like what I'd seen on the internet was mostly you know, if it was like a solid thing that had, you know, that didn't have too much water. If you fed it to them for a couple of days before it would they would your their body would taste slightly like that. Or to your clams. Yeah,

the the other one is obviously famous is the idea of feeding snails. Specifically, things like rosemary for use in Paya. I've tried it on three separate occasions, all miserable failures that left my my bathroom stinking like dead snail and rotting rosemary. So I've never had any luck with snails. But I will give it a shot and see what happens. I would try some. I would try. I would just for your own for giggles, I would I would try some purged I would try some unmerged. Right. And I would also take some and rinse them off in water and pat them dry before you fry them to see whether or not it's really just cinnamon that you fed them that sticks to the outside of their bodies. That's that's doing it. You know what I mean? But in any event, like if the cinnamon flavor comes through, it will be a good it's a good story. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, hopefully mealworms in general are just like a good like, talk about the start kind of thing. So yeah, yeah.

You know, it's interesting. Anastasia didn't give you the scrunched up face on on the mealworms. But she did give you the scrunched up face on the word oval, which isn't to say that she doesn't like the meats. She just hates that word. Oh, yeah. Right. That's,

you know that, you know, I noticed Sasha hates hipsters. But what is the group of people that hates things because other people like them? hipsters? Whoa. True story.

Wow. That's like that's like thanks so much. That's like the nuclear mic drops the mic and he's gone. All right. Well, good. Love it. Let us know how it works out. Did you want to know about nightshift? Yes. Tell me about night shift. And then what you want to take a commercial break after night shift. Yeah. All right. We'll take we'll talk about night shift. And then we'll go to

sprinkler Michael Keaton Michael Keaton right now love romantic comedy, is it?

I don't know. I don't know. I will purchase it with my corporate card. All right, and we'll come right back with cooking issues.

Hello out there. It's Steve Jenkins. I'm with fairway markets. White Leghorn, red wattle, Bourbon red, Navajo churro. These are names you're likely to hear at a fairway butcher counter or any other counter today. But before the rise of factory farming you would have and at Heritage Foods USA you still do Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity, small family farms and a fully traceable food supply. You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmers to buy from and Heritage Foods is honored to represent a network of family farmers and artisanal producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food system and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate whether it's heritage Turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork or Navajo children lamb chops is the righteous cause from healthy animals of sound genetics that have been treated humanely and allowed to pursue their natural instincts. It's a simple fact animals raised according to this philosophy taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them visit us at Heritage Foods usa.com For more information,

and welcome back hey, you know what Jack the one line and that that kind of creeps us out a little bit does now we're talking during the break sound genetics. Why? It's creepy. That sounds not sounds sounds eugenic. Like it sounds crazy. I mean, I know in the in a sense of, of animal breeding, it doesn't play that way. But like, whenever I hear sound genetics, I'm like, you know,

I think about like the genetics of sound.

Lou, you know, that's what that's a very Jackie molecule state. The genetics of sound.

By the way, speaking of Jackie molecules, I have to interject with this. So we as a Kickstarter reward, I was tasked to make three ringtones that we're going to send out to the people who donated to the Kickstarter and we got a whole bunch of people right in saying they wanted a Jackie molecule's ringtone. Do we have well, we do hold on a minute. I'm gonna find it. That's not it. Let's see. I'm just gonna pull it up to the mic and maybe that'll work. Let's actually I can plug it right in. There we go. So here we go. We're ringtone checking molecules.

molecules molecules

it's a real thing.

Wow. I'm gonna put that out and put that on my phone. I'll send it to you. Yeah, send it to me. And definitely

when people want to purchase it, it's free. If you donate it to Kickstarter, wait, wait, one more thing at the end, so good.

Oh my gosh. All right. So for those of you that remember before the commercial break, we were talking about Alex's question on carrots and persistent firming? Yes, the answer is yes. It's a known fact the enzyme that we're talking about is a pectin, a methyl esterase. And so the reason you have to raise the temperature is you have in there's numerous studies on different veg on what temperatures to use. And you gotta remember, I think it was a peck and pectin methyl esterase trick that Geoffrey Stein garden was using to do the firming of potatoes, in his very famous and very, very influential article on mash taters. In his first book, The Man Who ate everything, which I encourage you, if you don't own that book, like you kind of need to go out and buy it like, it's right now just go on Amazon, and Amazon Prime that book and read it. And if you've never read it before, if it doesn't change kind of the way you look at food, writing and food, then you don't know. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that I can't erase like that whole the whole dialogue of how he works from my head important book, super important book, and I think has really changed the way like a lot of food writers have approached what they do anyways. So yeah, so I think that the potato trick has affected methyl esterase trick. We've tried it with, with other things as well. There's also other enzymes that you can activate the trick is the reason you need the elevated temperatures, you need a temperature that's going to not denature the enzyme, but disrupt the cell structure enough that the enzyme is liberated and can do its business. And so that's typically what's happening. And there have been studies on various different veggies at various different temperatures to kind of figure out where where to hit them and how to treat them for how long. Also you can enhance this effect. If you dope calcium into the water. I don't know if cooks illustrated did that. But adding calcium to the water while you're working can also increase the amount of firming you get out of it. But I don't know if they did that. Anyways. So there you have it. Right, Seth wrote in. Good afternoon. My name is Seth Warshaw, I own a restaurant if you want

to get this caller quickly before that.

Sure. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, got a question about ice cream. I am kind of accused of being a freak about ice cream and well, just a freak in general anyway. So and I love the taste of ice cream without egg. But it's tough to get the texture right? Yep. So the question is kind of twofold. One is there any way to open up with any kind of hydrocolloid or anything crazy like that? Or two? Is it am I better off spending some money on a, you know, a liquid nitrogen Dewar or trying to get a really nice ice cream machine that can get the batch times down under 10 minutes or even 15?

What? Okay, a bunch of questions. Where did you grow up? Pardon me, what part what part of you sound American? What part of the country did you grow up in?

Oh, bright and sunny Southern California. Okay,

because like Philly people and people on the East Coast, like are very familiar with eggless ice cream, right? The whole style of eggless ice cream in the US is known as Philly style ice cream, right? So there's a long, rich history. But for those who grew up around here, you know, that, you know, the kind of classic Philly style ice cream used to be briars, right? And that it didn't contain eggs. It also used to contain no stabilizers. And that's why also all of us know that if you get Breyers when it's incredibly fresh, it's it was good, but it never as smooth and creamy as like, you know, an egg style, you know, like French Vanilla style, but good but then it goes icy really quickly, right? Because it's not stabilized and it doesn't have the eggs in it. Breyers has since relented and added a bunch of stabilizers to their ice cream, I guess because they realized that, you know, less and fewer and fewer people kind of you know, were devotees of that style or kind of understood like what that style was supposed to be. So that's it what style of ice cream machine do you use?

Right now I just have the cheapy $100 freeze the canister and turn it

so so. Oh, freezer canister okay.

Yeah, and the best time is between 20 and 30 minutes and low 20s and I'm looking at ICE For machines that are the self refrigerating time, yep. But the batch time still seem to be up near 20 minutes until you get into something that's, you know, in the 1000s of dollars range,

right? Correct. Okay, I'm gonna go a little bit against the grain. And how much of this stuff do you want to make? Is this like a family outing thing? Or do you want to do this commercial? You want to do this for family? Right? Well, just Well, for me, yeah, so I recommend, I recommend good old fashioned salt and ice, I would buy the motorized one, you don't need to buy the expensive White Mountain one. And in fact, the best ice cream that I've ever personally made outside of using liquid nitrogen or a carpet Johnny has been with a $2 thrift store rival brand ice cream, which by the way, they're owned by the same people his own White Mountain, but rival brand ice cream maker with a motor on it that used salt, and ice. And, I mean, I guess it depends on which model you get, like, the trick with with those style of ice cream machines, is you can decrease the batch time by just adding more adding more salt, right. And at a certain point, the makers tell you not to do it, because they worried that you're not gonna be able to scrape the sides off enough. But I found that at least on my rival, I could jam it pretty hard and get like, you know, 12 minute batch times on it and get incredibly textured ice creams, using just milk, cream, sugar, vanilla, and salt without doing anything else. Now, it doesn't store as well, right. And I'd also Jack the cream levels to the point where it almost buttered out on me. Because that's going to also provide some textural advantages. The problem there is it's really good when it's soft. But when it hardens, it gets a little bit of a buttery, buttery texture, which some people find off putting in an ice cream, right. So I mean, I like this good old fashioned Salt, salt, nice thing, they can make a much larger quantity than those cell freezing things can. And in general, their higher higher quality product. And the other good thing about it is that if you don't want to store your ice cream, you after you're done churning, you pull the motor off and you just add a boat ton of salt to the outside, drop a towel over it and let it cure inside of its own container. You know what I mean? Without unpacking without agitating without going back in your freezer, so you don't need to worry about freezer space. While you're you know, while it's queuing up while you're cooking the rest of dinner a lot of advantages, it doesn't keep so well. But as a lot of advantages. Now, back to the other side, let's let's go to the stabilization side. On the stabilization side on it, there are a boat ton of things you can add to to an ice cream like this, that that are not you know that that make it creamier. For instance, Joanne, if you were to but it's a little bit more of a pain in the butt, you could take just a milk, I wouldn't do it to the cream, I would take just a milk and make a gel and fluid gel with it right. Then blend it and then adding your cream, blend it down with the vanilla and when you freeze that sucker, it will be super duper burst smooth. You can go look at my stretchy on my stretchy ice. I have a stretchy ice cream post on on. That's also friable. And you can later on fire on the Cooking issues blog that apparently you could still search for. I would omit the guar just use the shell in and I would ignore my instructions to jack the jail you can jack the jail and a little bit. But you don't need a jacket as much as I said at the end of the end of that article because I was just guessing. In fact, you don't need a jacket that much. But that makes a supremely smooth ice cream with no eggs in it. But really any sort of stabilizer is going to it's going to help you out like LPG or something like this. It's going to it's going to stabilize a Carageenan like adding some karagin into it will like I would probably think most people use Iota in small amounts for this is going to help really smooth that out for you, which is what you want. You don't want to add so much of any of those things that it gets gummy though, right that's the that's the kind of the downside of it. And other things. You don't want eggs because you just don't like the flavor of cooked eggs. Or you just don't want the

I don't know what it is that anytime I add any number of heads. It just changes the flavor. And I don't know what it is

right. Do you want to serve like do you want to circulator? Yes. Okay. Here's a little trick. Sam may sam Mason didn't used to like his ice creams to taste AG. But he loves the texture that he got from eggs. And so what he would do is he would put the egg yolks in in a bag and pasteurized them at a low temperature like you could do it at 60 right Celsius 140 Fahrenheit for just long enough to pasteurize out the egg yolks, which is not that long, really. And then and then stir those in. And then that actually it's easy then to chill those eggs. And then you can stir those into your mix and you're not going to get At the blender, man, and you're not going to get that cooked egg that achiness that you get from the eggs. And that's what he used to do. And ain't nobody ever argue with Sam Mason's ice cream. Interesting. Yeah.

I want to try that. Yeah.

So there's a battery of things. You can you can try. Let us know how it works. Cool.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. All right now. Wait. So we were talking about Seth, who owns a restaurant in Teaneck, New Jersey, you're going to Phoenix as I used to live right next to Tina, Tina Steakhouse. We are attempting to introduce modern techniques into our kitchen, some of our ideas have been successful and others not so much. Our biggest hurdle is that we are a kosher establishment, which precludes us from using many ingredients. Most recently, we purchased Aktiva TI, which does not have sodium caseinate. So activity i By the way, for those of you that you know, aren't hip to this activity is, is the brand name of transglutaminase, aka meat glue, that we use to, you know, bond different proteins usually meats together. Now that it's an enzyme naturally occurring enzyme, it's not some sort of horrific monster thing. And, you know, I can get into lots of discussions about how awesome it is and how it's been maligned by specifically a couple of fake news outlets in Australia but don't have time. So what's added to the enzyme is some bulking agent and also a helper protein. Now the the most commonly used helper protein is casein. That's obviously it's not kosher, because it's derived from milk and you're gluing meat with milk, clearly not kosher. So that's the problem that we're dealing with. Okay. Aktiva TI, which is the one that they're getting is pure energy doesn't have any helper protein. Okay, there we go. Recently, we purchased Aktiva ti which does not have the sodium caseinate component, and therefore the bindings does not have the binding strength, the body strength is much reduced. I did find a product online called cover Max, cover Max and sounded sounds like a car website or a wine website for cover. Anyway, kava Max, which they claim is a sodium caseinate substitute, as I understand it, sodium caseinate is emulsifier, which is what kava Max is as well. And my question is, can I use carbon Max instead of the sodium caseinate to add to Aktiva and get the desired result of being able to glue our meat together? Additionally, how would I introduce the kava max into the mix? If this idea is not going to work? Is there some other idea that you could point me to I hope this email finds you well? Thank you, Seth. Yes, finds this well. If it's meant to replace an emulsifier, then I would not use it as a replacement. What I would do is get kosher gelatin, and just mix the kosher gelatin in with the Aktiva because it's going to provide a different kind but a very fast bond string. So Aktiva je s which is not kosher because they don't use kosher gelatin Aktiva je s is is the greatest strength or is it GB, GB, one of those two. Anyway, both of those actually have gelatin in them. One of them is also has phosphates to keep it stable at a temperature but if you mix gelatin and you should be fine. So what I would do, I don't know if you have to pre functionalized the gelatin into like a slurry and then paint it and then sprinkle the meat glue on or whether it will work just straight sprinkled, but try both ways but I would do gelatin. That's what I would do. Ethan Kushner writes in about reverse Aguilar or reverse alginate I guess and lentils a big hello to the folks that cooking issues called in late last week but you were tasting ants at the time so we're on old questions. I'm headed into New York right now so I thought email and just thought you guys might want to post the questions on the heritage radio page or somewhere else very obvious. What do you think actually post the questions email on our on our page?