Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. Here's Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live but on the telephone somewhere in Bushwick, Brooklyn, on the heritage Radio Network. My train went out of service. So we're doing a statue there. Yeah, I'm here. Yeah, we're doing you remember that video? Or that Bruce Springsteen did for the streets of Philadelphia. Here we heard you're walking around. You're like, only Philadelphia doesn't have an elevated railway that's gonna drown out any noise that I can make. Like how much background noise is there for real? Just a little bit of wind? Yeah, now well, you know that always by people iPhone. Six plus is like, you know, it's like a billboard. So you know, it's trying to show me from the wind, like, I tried to get off the main drag here. maybe be a little quieter. All right. So start, we're gonna have to do a little bit. Now we normally still call your questions at 270-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. How you doing over there? Jack? Can you hear me? I can

hear you. Yeah, we have the chat room too. So I'm able to actually communicate with people directly.

And, by the way, you want to tell everyone while we're walking to today's the beginning of the live the live tweet Assan madness at least for cookie issues. You've been live for a couple of days. Yep. In general, but you want to explain how that how that credit works?

Yeah, I think if you're tuning in live right now you can see the chat room. I've got a bunch of people in here now chatting with me. They say that the L train is the enemy of quality, but they it wasn't on the wasn't the L Yeah, it was what Yeah.

JMC line, wherever they call that thing. Now, the L is the enemy of quality. Yeah, it's just it was one of those things where like the train had a problem. And so anyone who lives in New York is familiar with this. The trains already extremely late and it stopped all the other trains from going but they don't take a service as soon as they have a problem. Instead, they make the train be 15 minutes away, and then they pull it out of service so that your half hourly, you don't I mean, my favorite, my favorite people, which is why Immanuel Kant never went more than two miles away from his house. I like why he never visited the mountains or you know why he went he wants to win on a carriage ride. You're the Fae As philosopher, by the way, like a complete nut bag and a weirdo, but he is what people read people read these people's work today. And they're like, you know, they, they never take the time to realize that these people were freaking lunatic. So he takes a carriage ride one day. And there's a problem with the carriage like the, you know, the actual breaks coming I forget exactly what happened. And he is late for an appointment. So he jots down in his book. Don't take care of drives, they might make you wait for appointments. And so the guy never like left within a couple of miles of his house. Freaking weirdo. And yet people for hundreds of years are like, this is the person I should base. Like, how you know what I think about thought on a freaking, like, clear loony bin. You know what I'm saying? Anyways? I don't want to get any. I don't want to get any hate down from Philosopher people. But he's never really enjoyed reading Conte. You guys ever have to read that stuff? No. What was his point? Well, it's kind of a big dance. Like, well, it's a big dance kind of school. So we'll get into we'll get into some of that we should probably get some questions. Oh, before we do that, or something else that we had to talk about? No, I don't know. I don't know. Okay, so if you get the question, but for now, no. Well get the questions that remember back when I said you're going to read the questions. No, you never said that. I did. Remember I said we're going to do it differently today. And the stock is going to read. Oh, you were listening. In fact, the other day one of the questions up. There was a question on. One was a question on Mustafa. I'm a speaker there. But I can't look at it because the only instrument that I would have to look at the question is currently against my ear. That's as I'm talking.

I do have a question from Josh Weinstein about enzymes soak. Yeah, he says in Episode 112, Dave said he now prefers a half inch fry. The End Zone soak was originally 25 C one hour. What time and temperature does Dave Arnold now use for his enzymes soak. Same,

the reason I like the bigger fry is because okay, it's the same basic procedure with the exception that the larger fry might actually require some dry time. Whereas the thinner fries didn't require a lot of brine. Remember, French fry like good French fries, work is all about managing, right. So you have the main problem with french fries, is either there's too much moisture in the center and you haven't developed a good enough crust. And if you haven't developed a good enough crust, they go soggy. Conversely, if you focus all of our energy on a super good crust, you can create what we call the hollow fry. So it's like super crunchy on the outside, but hollow in the middle. So what you want to do, it's very difficult balancing act. And the enzyme soak is one of the things you can do to kind of skew that balancing act in your favor. Now, because we've, in my opinion, gotten successful enough with the French fry recipe that you could have both a good exterior and interior. I didn't want to up the amount of interior that was there because the whole french fry was enjoyable, right? Whereas if really all you can do is make a good crust and anything on the interior just messing up your fry. Well then you go sinner, right, which is why people make those shoestring fries. Which by the way I don't like I mean I like them I don't like to do you guys like shoestring fries? No,

I don't mind them.

You know mine about are you like No, let me ask you a question. If Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, they're either gonna usually poorly done shoestring fries are either greedy, or just like fried crunchy, right? I'm not insulting a fried crunchy by the way, like a fried crunchy. But anyways, so I think in general, the larger fries are also technically more interesting to tackle. I don't like the giant giant fries though. Like those giant like, I don't like fries. You guys like those? No, I'm

not really a fan of them.

So the answer is the same. But you might need a little dry time to get a little more moisture out than you would if you were using a three eighths. three eighths inch fry. That it was that a good answer to answer that.

I think you got it. This is this is an easy one I got from Jones Zuckerberg. Is there a culinary book which Dave Arnold would recommend above all others?

Well, of course, you should buy liquid intelligence simply for its use of the coaster. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. You know, I like I don't buy books. Because I'm going to use them for recipes. Usually. I usually buy books because I really want to see somebody's point of view. Sometimes I'll get them For, like a specific culture, learn about a specific culture. It's kind of tough. It's like if you ask me a particular area, then I'm like, Oh, you got to get that book. If you're interested in sauces, like even though it's, you know, very old at this point, you should go pick up a copy of Peterson's sauce book, because it was seminal. Now, what I say is the first cookbook, you should go by No, but if I was doing sauces, it's also a really interest. I like old books because they're a window into somebody else's, like a different a different time a different frames. So you look at those recipes in that book, for instance. And there's a lot of reduced cream sauces, because that was very involved in and it can give you kind of a slice of what was happening at a particular time. Take the style, it's like name and type of cookbook, I'll tell you what I like. You like Harold McGee's? Yeah, don't get Yeah, okay. You got to go by on food and cooking. You need to own that. That's like saying, you know, do you breathe? You know, do

you liquids,

you know what I mean? But like, I mean, like, cookbooks. Like what? Like what style? Italian? Ooh, that's interesting. What do you like for Italian stuff?

Do you love Italian food? I don't use I don't use a cookbook. No, you don't like to read cookbooks? Right? Because you don't care what people think about things. Right, right. Yeah, I used to really enjoy when I was starting to, you know, cook seriously, like, you know, 25 or so years ago, Giuliano Bucha Dolly's books, because he's such a nut on what he thinks is authentic and what he's not. He's like classic, like old school, Northern Italian. Where like, if it deviates even slightly from what he considers to be authentic, it's crap. And although I don't cook that way, I think it's kind of hilarious to like to read a book that's written from that perspective. So I like oh, this cement truck is coming by the one that always tries to kill me on my bicycle. Are you walking around here? Are you? Yeah, I'm going to show up in the studio at some point, at which point I will be able to read the questions out from my phone. So I like his stuff for that I really liked and I don't know whether it's still date or they want to read it. I like cooking by hand or toys book. Because it was the first book that I had that went through the procedures, pretty in depth for curing this is way before the charcuterie book came out. It went through the production of balsamic vinegar, they went through a bunch of stuff, I thought it was a really good book. I don't know if people read it anymore. I mean, I like some of the old classics like, you know, the first cookbook that someone bought me to cook out of was Julia Child's way to cook which I like. I like Jacques Papan, we call Jackie peep, but I like jackal pans. He has a two volume color work is put up by Knopf back when they didn't know any better that literally shows you how to skin a baby lamb. So obviously, it went out of print very quickly because no American back into, you know, late 70s or 80s, or whatever it was. Wanted to learn to skin a baby lamb. I don't know. I really like old versions of pellet brat. The ones with the weird crazy 60s photos. I really love the timeline Encyclopedia of foods of the world. I think it's an amazing reference. Anyway, I don't know. I could go on and on. And I probably shouldn't. What's the next question?

Ask your question, Jack. Oh, yeah, I was speaking of cookbooks, I tried to cook out of his a half cookbook, this Moroccan carrot recipe. And they wanted you to kind of cook the carrots in a in a pan with water, just covering the carrots for about 20 minutes. And then you take the carrots out of the water. And they want you to reduce that carrot water into like a syrup. And it said to cook it for about 15 minutes more and it should turn into a syrup but it never turned into a syrup. It just stayed like boiling water, you know, and it stayed the consistency. Yeah,

okay. Okay, it's good to get into this year. So how do you slice it? First of all, like, what are we talking? What's the ratio character water?

That's six carrots in a saucepan just barely covered with water. So like, you know, the, you know, just covering the carrots, but six hole carrots.

You know, how long was the pan? What's that? How tall was the pan?

It was probably I don't know, six inches deep?

Yeah. See, I'm looking at it. So but it was it was one of those ones. It's like roughly six by six. So it was as tall as wide or taller than wide?

No, no, it was definitely more wide than tall.

Yeah, so you're adding probably more water than you would need to. Because you're probably not getting the packing density that you want to get that. So you've probably started out with a higher level of water, which in and of itself isn't going to give you problems. Except for you probably have to reduce it much more than then you think so there's there's a couple of things going on, if it's reduced into a syrup, what that means is you've extracted stuff out of the carrot. So if your carrots aren't very flavorful, they're not very sweet, you're not going to have a lot of stuff to extract. And there you have it, you should be able to taste the water at the end of boiling. And you'll know, you know, like, this doesn't have much flavor. So I'm going to have to reduce the living hell out of it, right. So in that case, you know, you might have to reduce it. Also, it's impossible to say how many minutes you need to reduce something. Like if I was going to do this for a bar, or something, you would reduce it to a particular solid content, right? Like that's how you make like, jellies, you take things down to a certain Brix level, because you need a certain solid content to get the body need X percentage of sugar in the water. So and once you get to, you know, the difference between like something that's put it this way, 66% sugar by weight is maple syrup. 82 is honey, right? 50 is 50% Sugar even still pours? You know, almost like water. Do we already talked about what creams porn like a waterfall we already talked about pizza CZ a anyway, remember that song anyway. So it doesn't take that much less sugar in a product all of a sudden make it much less viscous. Did it taste good or no?

It tasted fine. Yeah, it was just kind of soupy you know, it's very watery.

Alright, Bushwick, man, I'm at Boram. And the kid and I want to go towards the kid and right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I think that was probably your problem. So it tasted good, but it wasn't sure. But you need to reduce it more. Right? Look, they don't know how powerful your stove is. Like, how are you going to tell someone to redo something in 15 minutes? You're saying? I don't know. Like, maybe maybe I have, in fact, I do have a stove is poorly regulated. And I could I could boil a cow. You know what I mean? Because that's how much energy comes out of my burners. You know what I'm saying? It's like, almost like, it's like a wok burner. My regular stove is like a wok burner. So if I crank that sucker, I can reduce it. You know, I can reduce anything almost instantly. The problem is you might scorch things. Whereas, you know, you might be in a situation where you have a low output stove, and it could take you twice as long easily to reduce it. So it really needs to be reduced on a consistency, maybe you should have stuck with it longer. Or maybe you didn't cut your care small enough you didn't get full extraction out of that possibility.

That's, I think more likely, I should have just reduced it for longer. Yeah, thanks, Dave. Yeah, could

you be doing a short cook? Also, how much is extract? I mean, if you cook it for the recipe, then presumably cooked it for the recipe. You know that back in the day? Are you a fan of vegetables that are on the crunchy side or vegetables? They're cooked through? No crunchy? Yeah, so you're extracting less like the crunchy or the vegetable is less you've broken this stuff down less you've extracted out you see what I'm saying? So like if you're if you're pulling them early, then even no matter what you're in a situation where you're gonna have less sugar than you would otherwise because you haven't extracted as much out I mean the French the French is you know back when I was at the French Culinary Institute, they when I first started there, everyone was still very very old school French so they would get all pretzel out if you gave them you know a crunchy vegetable that you know they give you he's part cook this is not you know I mean like they were like it's not cooked they want it they want it basically cooked all the way through not mushy, but cooked all the way through. Whereas the average American taste now I think skews towards slightly undercooked we know stars likes freaking raw rice and pasta basically she's freaking animal a barbarian vegetables

that are completely mushy

Wow was would it be here the opposite of everything always. I love it I'm more sweet people.

We're getting closer let's squeeze in a few chat I got a few chat room questions we'll we'll get to Elliot wants to know if he grinds Nick's thermalized corn in a food processor will it suck?

Willis duck. So for those of you that like you know are hip to the fact Nick's symbolizing corners when you treat corn with calcium hydroxide usually to whether alkali and it takes on the the it changes the structure and a flavor and nutritional properties actually of the corn and when you grind it properly. In a nixtamal grinder. You get masa which is the thing from which corn tortillas are made. Okay? Well it's stuck in the palm when making nicks and lies and corn is that it's very hard to grind it properly. I now have a grinder I like I have made it in a food processor. The problem with it is you have to add more water than you should. Right so it'll work you're gonna burn out last time I did it. I didn't burn it out but I ran my Cuisinart so hard that it never was quite the same again because you don't have to sit there and just grind the ever loving crap out of it until you get the right texture. And you also need to you need to up Like I say, add more water. So then sometimes I'm not saying to do this, but sometimes if it's too watery when you're done don't have a lot. Take a little bit extra water. You can add some solids back in, heated back to the right. Moisture content to get it right. That's what I would do. I have done it. It's not ideal, the best but it works. And I'm in the studio

All right, you ever get the questions? And I'm back.

That sounds like wow, that was really cool. Yeah.

I like how like I was able to get a beastie boy reference in there on the on the way it's like a magic

trick is and here you are

here I am in the studio. Wow. Not just calling anymore like a credible like a freaking chump.

What if one of our callers did this one day?

To shut up? I would. Listen if you like I'm not saying don't do this, but Anastasia will probably stab you. Because she'll assume oh, yeah, she'll assume that you mean her harm

right? Now big a scene in a scary movie and like you think it's a bad guy, but it's not but then she stabbed them anyway and well

in one thing, like anyone that knows her knows. Mr. Garcia, not so much a wait and see kind of a lady.

You know what I mean? That reaction? Not even just

gut. It's like, oh, we're stabbing this dude. Now. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, you see the beginning of that movie? Three Kings with ice cube and Mark Wahlberg back in the day? No, you didn't see that. You should say it's good movie. At least I remember being a good movie. But the point is, is that you know Mark Wahlberg see someone and like, he's like, are we shooting people? You know what I mean? Like, that's how the movie starts. And they're like, yes, and he shoots the first and stars is like that. It's like Oh, so that's that's what's happening. I'm just saying you're likely to get stabbed if you show up on announced Jack won't stab you. I won't stab you. The Stasi will stab you not out

of hate. Just instinct. Let's take a quick little break so I can get the sponsor message and you can catch up

all right, we'll be right back live

this is not an advertisement I promise this is not an add cooking issues listener you're already cooler than most people for listening to this show. And if you do listen to this show, then you know I'm Jack Inslee, aka Jackie molecule's aka the man behind the booth. I need you to make us look cool. against all the other shows. Let's make cooking issues, the most supported show on the network $1 $5 $20 $50 really anything you can afford. Please donate today to heritage Radio network.org, click on the Donate tab in the top right corner, send us a note and let us know you came from cooking issues. Dave will appreciate it. I will appreciate it. Even Nastasia will appreciate it. I promise. Give something today

Do it. Do it. Give it do it. Do it. Right. All right. So should I get to some email questions now that I have the email questions up? Yeah. All right. Okay. I see. See who wrote this.

And yeah, that was the first question I asked on cooking issues ever think? Yeah, yeah.

Did I answer it properly? Did

I'm so stoked. On again next week.

Me sometimes I meet people at the bar, right? Because people at the bar like magazine, they're like, they're like, Oh, I listened to Oh, you ever ask a question? Like, no. Like, you don't have to ask the question if you don't want to. Matthew am from the Seattle area, like Seattle area, although I'm angry at the Seattle area now because my cousins are slowly drifting to it. So you know, I'm losing like, you know, I've basically lost my entire family dinner kitchen staff now. You know, like we had like the crew, we have crank it out. And like one half of the of the, you know, the two brothers, they would always come over rage. And James. They, you know, rage is like telling us and moving back to Seattle. And I was like, oh, man, and then you know, the third brother Kai. He's like, I'm moving back to Seattle. So then, you know, James is gone. Yep. worst, worst, worst. You know, the sad thing is like, you know, look, I'm a New Yorker. I don't know if you know this. I'm a New Yorker. You know what I mean? My son Booker, would like he would murder anyone so that he could stay in New York probably mean, he would definitely, like throw me off a bridge. That meant he got to stay in New York and not like move somewhere else. I mean, I'm not saying he doesn't love me. I'm just saying he loves New York more. You don't I mean, but I think I could I could deal with Seattle. I mean, the weather and the looks and like the Pacific Northwest. Like I grew up on all that kind of stuff. Except for the fact that I'm a New Yorker. Yep. You know what I mean? What are your thoughts on Seattle? Jack?

I've never been but I've got a little brother up there. Well, half brother living in Seattle.

You never visited him. I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not calling you, you know, bad rotor or anything. I'm just saying. Well, I Lucky No. It was one of the

few places that haven't been in the kind of like that area. I haven't really been to the Pacific Northwest.

say they've been to Portland ie Seattle like, whoa, whoa, no, I'm kidding. I love Portland Portland's nice. You know, I think Portland like at some point, like back in the in the 90s. And like, you know, like 2000 2001 2000 Do I think most Seattle guys were like, We are the supreme leaders of this area. You don't I mean, everyone else is a fake us. And I think Porn was like, no, no, I think Portland has the mantle now. Right? Like if you were gonna say, What do you think of first Jack? What do you think of first? Do you think of Portland versus Seattle? First Portland. See? Yeah, that's a complete reversal. It is. You're

right. Like 12 is all Seattle and 90s

Seattle. Seattle. Seattle, Seattle. Yeah, well, not just because of you know, Soundgarden. Nirvana, Pearl Jam. Yeah, although, you know, I don't know. I think you know, don't hold on to the past Seattle, you know, come back to the future. What else? They got the salmon coffee. They're delicious. They got all of course they got Nathan Myhrvold. They got Chris Young ChefSteps crew they got you know, Microsoft they gotta let go in format. So steps is in DC. No. Just upstairs in Seattle. Yeah. Anyway. Good salmon. Good salmon. Okay. I actually get to the question. I'm a listener since January this year, and I've worked through most of the backlog. I find the podcast to be an inspiring resource. So thanks for your great work. One hobby that I picked up through listening to the podcast is homemade and liquid fuels you like where you call liquors lucky or do you say that you like the keyword? Liquor? Liquor? Like Bose? Met a guy yesterday that smells like my uncle Ralph. Yeah. Billiard a billiard place. He's a guy guys. He's like booths there like in the store drinking wise. Outside of my old, where my apartment is in neighborhoods totally changed and one of the downtown billiard places was up there. So I walked in, because that's like, I want to look at the pool table. So I'll go into the pool tables. And like, these gentlemen smell like Michael rough. You know what I mean? You know, I like slightly sweet, like, smoke. Sweet. drink, smoke. Yeah, New Jersey's not talking about anyways, no one knows I'm talking about all right. In that vein, I was looking to experiment with some wood infusions via EC rapid infusion method or steeping as a component for the course. My main question is, do you have any advice in general for wood flavor in fusion, eg wood format chunks, chips, dust, spiral spiral weight, chunks, chips, dust and spirals don't seem good for small scale. Alright, I'm gonna hit it piece by piece because otherwise I'll go on tangents. Right. So wood format. Listen, the surface area of wood exposed is in any rapid any confusion thing, frankly, the amount of surface area exposed is like super vitally important. So usually the like, the bigger the piece is, the slower the process. But that also means if you're going to do something quickly, the more controllable the process, right. Also, like sometimes, like larger things can skew things in different ways. So for instance, like certain things might extract more slowly from the center of a piece of wood, but you might get more kind of overall total extraction of everything once the pieces are smaller, because everything makes it out into the into the liquor as fast as possible. So that makes sense to us. So the size is super important. I would shoot for rapid infusion, I usually you want to choose a size that is not too too rapid, because you don't want if you have a one minute infusion, and then you go like 30 seconds long or 20 seconds short, it's ruined. Like I like it's nice to have infusion time, it's like, you know, three, four minutes, because then you have like a bigger window. Also, if you make things to fine, it can be very difficult to strain the stuff out fast enough. And then while you're straining it, it'll go to too much that's like coffee is a problem with that, which is why I switched to kind of a coarser grind of coffee than I used to originally. Because if your filter clogs, by the time you've gotten through the filter, and by the way, that this is the one thing I hate as much as Anastasia is putting things through coffee filters. Right? I hate it. I hate it. If there's one thing, there's like a couple things in my life that I'm like, you know, I don't ever need to do that again putting like a bunch of crap through coffee filters. Drywall, I hate doing drywall. I hate it. I like working with my hands. I like carpentry drywall, you like drywall, taking the stuff off garlic. Oh, I hate that. I don't ever want to do that. You know what the thing is? People come to your house, right? Yeah. And they're like, Hey, can I help you peel off this garlic? And they're like, no, no, I mean, can I help do something that I want to do? And you're like, What the hell is this? You don't want to say, yes. You know, because also like you're not going to have them cut something because they're going to mess it up. And then here's the problem with here's the problem with this. I'm gonna get back to your question. Don't worry. But the problem with this is this. You come to me and you say, can I help? And I say yes, cut this cucumber, and then you cut it wrong. Right? Now, maybe I didn't tell you exactly how I want I have to cut but I did tell you what I was going to use it for. Right? Okay. So then you get mad at me because I have an obvious look of displeasure on my face. Now, I haven't said anything mean to you, I haven't called you a bad person or an enemy of quality or any of these things. I just look at the cucumbers and looks at you. And I'm saying, is that made me bad? I mean, I'm getting better in my old age. Like, I'm like, You know what? Because here's the thing, right? Here's the problem. When you go to somebody's house, and you ask them to do something, you're cutting the cucumbers up, and you've mangled it, right? But once it goes out, you've completely mangled these cucumbers, you ruined them. All the pieces are all different sizes, they no longer get coated with whatever properly. There's just a friggin nightmare. I don't know. I don't know what the hell you did to him, but you've ruined them. Now, the problem is, is that when the host brings that crap out to the table, what are they going to do? Everybody? Joe, come on, cut the cucumbers. Like a chump. It wasn't me. You know what I mean? You can't do that. You have to suck it up and make it look like you're the idiot to cut the cucumbers that way. That's the problem. Maybe this is why your cousin's left. Now they know that I've cooked with him for like, decades. They know how I want it. They know how I want that stuff. You know, Jackie, with me, you're not with me on this. I can tell you that with me on this stuff and talking to

people in the chat room about browsers. That's the beautiful thing about this new stream. It cut out for a second and then everyone's like, Hey, mind cut out and the other guy's like, well, I refreshed and it worked so that everybody can refresh. It's great. I think browser

needs to be it like it's a word that needs to be said in a more highbrow fashion browser. Right? Doesn't it deserve like that? But it's like Bowser browser sounds like Bowser from Shana. Remember Santa Ana Manimal. All right? When preparation raw toasted chard Now listen, when you're charging, like an oak barrel, for instance, let's say you're making whiskey and you're charging an oak barrel, you're getting a surface char. But then it's also extracting stuff out of, you know, it goes through the point all through toasting and trying to say like, if you charge small pieces of wood, that's a whole hell of a lot of char, you know, I'm saying, Yeah, but looking, you know, there are people who all they do all day all night is thinking about different ways to toast. Wood. I mean, this is like a field of endeavor that people study, like or practice for decades, and never get it right. So it's like, you know, I, I would shoot for something that you know, you can repeat, right? So I would first try to settle in on a size of wood. And then I would try to figure out kind of some reproducible toasting thing, which is going to be difficult because if it the moisture content of the wood changes, your your timing will be different. You know what I mean? It's very hard to do it by temperature by color, because that's hard, you know, anyways, best solvent, water, alcohol blend and temperature. Well, the alcohol, but not straight alcohol, probably alcohol, alcohol, water, as we like to call it, booze. Now the higher proof that you mean like look, different flavors, the alcohol is going to extract a lot faster than the water a lot of the stuff and so you know there's an optimum, there's an optimum kind of extract, I don't really know what it is I in general work with pre watered booze, like 4040. But you know, depends if you're using a higher proof stuff, you can but most of the stuff that we operate is somewhere between 40 and 50% alcohol, and you'd have to search far and wide to get a higher but you know, you could go get this, we use this stuff called technical reserve that's made here in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, and it it's like 95% pure, and it's pretty clean, right? It doesn't smell too much like a hospital. So you can make a tincture with that. We do that sometimes. But it's like, extraction. I've done isI with straight liquor. But man, you got to watch out because it's super hardcore. Web resources for food grade wood, and infusion I can only find oak chips for winemaking and wood pellets for smoking. I'm assuming the woods for smoking and infusion have different safety considerations. The pellets I wouldn't do the pellets but like any piece of wood, like you're kidding yourself if you think that they don't use pressure treated once you don't I mean, like but like, like, I've used oak from Home Depot, but you know what I mean? Like, you know, just like, it'll get the surface off of it. It's wood. You know what I mean? It's like imagine, you know, you go to the store, you buy a cucumber, you go to the lumberyard yay, you buy some wood? You don't I mean, I could be wrong. Someone read me in and tell me that I've just told someone to do something terrible. Are there words that are generally safe at high extractions, assuming typical barrel oaks? Not sure what else to use? Maybe sugar maples, birch people? I mean, there are people who have done a lot of work with alternate woods. I have not, I would want to I mean, it depends on what you believe. Right? So there are Woods tropical woods that are toxic, but in general, like a woodworker would know that the other question is is like once you start doing infusions like you could go get SassaFrass wood for instance, right? But it contains safrole. So, you may believe that safrole is is well, the United States government believes that it's a carcinogen and won't let you put it in the food, you may believe that it's not a problem, in which case you could use it. I don't believe it's a problem I use its traditional, you know what I mean, but whatevs, anyway, words that should be widely avoided due to high risks, even at low extractions. I mean, the good thing is, like I say, still, I would stay away from any sort of like weird, tropical toxic wood that you don't know what it is stay away from any sort of any sort of pressure treated or any sort of treated wood whatsoever. Any wood that's ever been painted anywhere that's ever been shellac, any wood that's ever been finished at all, under any circumstances, stay away from I would also say that, like a lot of pines, will probably not be 100% Pleasant on an extraction basis, whereas like some of their resins are good, but I don't know that they'd be good from a wood extraction standpoint. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Second related question. Are you aware of common herbs and spices that become dangerous under high extractions nutmeg, for instance, could become psychotropic and toxic though I doubt it would be palatable available. It really is. People have to hide it. They mix them with like peanut butter Fishbone did a whole song and maybe even a whole section of an album on trying to trip off of nutmeg ever done that Jack? Or do you know anyone that's ever done that? They might be Baqi molecules? Like,

I haven't, I will tell you if I did. Oh, you think about

nutmeg is right. I mean, that like nutmeg highs are for like, like 14 year olds who like are interested in trying something but don't have a source. You know what I mean? So they go into the pantry, and they pound like nutmeg. I'm not condoning this. But oh, you should never do this. This is not smart. Because the actual thing about nutmeg is, from what I've read is that the first of all, it's terrible in large quantities. Secondly, I believe that the dose line between psychotropic and toxic is very, is not very big. So I don't think it's necessarily a safe thing to OD on, you know what I mean? But like I said, if you want to go look up herbs and their effects, there is a whole community. It's I haven't been to it a long time. It's called like Arrow wit, or the vault is a place where I used to go to get information on extracting drugs site. Yeah, but those people are fantastic, because they've tested every freaking thing. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, how do you get the most, you know, while they're interested in psychrotrophic principles, but how do you get the most stuff out of XYZ herb and so all these knuckleheads have tried all these solvents, you know what I mean? So most of them not food grade. And then and you know, they've tried anything anyone has ever said has a psychotropic effect, they have pounded Rue is one you should probably also stay away from not for psychotropics, there's lots of things I would get an herbal guide. Plenty of those things have toxicity levels and in general I this

list is crazy on the site of what a cement garlic, ginger,

and I'm telling you, man, that's crazy. This guy's like, like, there are people who what they do is they sit down in the morning when they get up and they're like, What have I not tried to eat in large enough quantities to mess my brain up? And will it do anything? And then they report on it? I mean, I think it's a great public service. I don't know. What do you think check?

Yeah, I support it.

Anyway, also obviously, like spices that are toxic in super high doses, like thujone is toxic and super high doses and it's very prevalent in like sage extract I wouldn't pound sage extract I wouldn't pound clove oil extract it's an anesthetic there can be other you know, there's so things that are high in foods and things that are high in us you know, there's there's all sorts of things these things aren't meant to be eaten in super high quantities. And in fact, one of the things that you know, we were coming across didn't make it into the exhibition at the museum is doing but you know, most of these things are toxic, or at least irritants are noxious in super high quantities. So if you want to see what it's like for an insect The reason insects don't eat mint, take a like a quarter teaspoon of pure mint oil and put that sucker in your mouth. You did that with me right does is freaking banana Lammas anyway, what were over one. All right, well, sorry about the whole streets of Philadelphia issue. I got propane questions to get to. I've got Wagyu beef. Listen Wagyu beef. Who wrote that in? Who wrote that and Kevin from Los Gatos. I'll answer you more in depth. But listen, you already have the beef. So I have to answer you quickly right now. Listen, listen, listen. The reason you need he had us by the way people what he's doing is he's aging a he's aging a big what does he got? He's got a wagyu. But what does he got? He's got a seven rib, a five Wagyu beef for us. He wants to dry it for 30 days. And his fridge that he has it in is running at 5550 to 55% relative humidity. And he's wondering if he really needed to get up to 70 or 80 because he doesn't he doesn't he's like I don't care if it if I lose a little more moisture because that's just more flavour, right? No, no no no get the moisture up. Listen, you're going to case hard and that's what you're worried about. If you go that low on your moisture, you're apt to case harden the outside of the meat which is not what you want for proper aging. So take a salt pen old school, take us a pan saturated salt solution put extra crystals in the bottom it should be able to maintain about ADEA thanks, someone go look it up for me tweet it back on out. We'll get you next week on the coding issues.

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