Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information visit heritage foods usa.com

I am Patrick Martin's host of the main course you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cookie cutters coming to you live on heritage radio network in revertas. pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn for the Thanksgiving Day episode calling your questions to 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 along with my usual you know crew here of Anastasia hemmer Lopez Hi says hi. And Jackie molecules jackings. Lee in the booth Hey there. And Rebecca on the live tweet machine we have via phone Chris Young from ChefSteps, who has a big thing to announce. And Patrick Martin's founder of our great network and of heretics meets who's going to talk a little bit about turkeys in a minute. But Chris, thanks for calling in. What do you got for us? What's going on with the ChefSteps world? By the way? For those of you that don't know, I

think we're announcing today that ChefSteps has had a secret we've been we've been working on better subi tools for a couple of years now. And so we're announcing jewel today.

Nice. Okay, so for the one person who might have found our broadcast somehow, who doesn't know what ChefSteps is, it's very easy to find out, the simplest thing to do is to just go online to chefsteps.com and register. And it's you know, you'll get like a bunch of tips not only on modern and stuff, but on the kind of the new analytical way of thinking about cooking in general, whether they're using new techniques or not. It's a very analytical mindset, which of course, I appreciate. And aside from their awesome videos and tips and whatnot, you'll find a forum which is very, which is very helpful for cooks all over the world. Is that accurate or inaccurate?

I think that's pretty accurate. And we're also taking questions on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and other social networks that don't even know

about yet. Nice. All right now so jewel, by the way, it's not spelled jewel as in the Alaskan singer. Sorry, Patrick. It's not the Alaskan singer. Yeah, but I know, Jewel as in as in the unit of energy. And just goes to show that if you were wondering whether Chris Young and it's just as people are Metro sized whether they are metric folk, I think you now have your answer, because of the unit of measure that they are choosing to, to use there, right. Yeah. Do you ever have any any thoughts on going Not Imperial with the naming of the unit thing or no, you want something that's vaguely female sounding maybe? What do you think? What's the what's the origin of jewel?

The origin, the jewel is that, you know, subi is really about adding a measured amount of heat to your recipe so you don't over undercook it. So it seemed appropriate to name our nice compact little unit after what CB is really about, which is heat.

That's that ready to go now? Describe it now. Most everybody here who's listening to us now knows what an immersion circulator is, it's but for those like who don't, it's, it's a device of any sort, really, that both circulates water. So or it doesn't have to be water but circulates a liquid. So in this case, static water baths like the Soviet supreme would not count as a circulator, and also has a heater and sometimes chilling, although very few of us have one device so that you can very accurately maintain a temperature in said liquid. And it ranks right up there. It's like the it's the it's the newest, most different kind of most important cooking innovation since probably refrigeration is my guess. What do you think? Chris? Yes or no, the accurate control of temperature in general, the most important thing since refrigeration, I would bet.

Well, you know, I really think Suvi is the first real cooking technology that's likely to really change the mainstream kitchen since the microwave, which is like really World War Two technology. So it's time we do something different.

I think it's bigger than the microwave, though, in terms of its final impact, I think bigger than the microwave, I mean, maybe not as going to be as ubiquitous as the microwave. But in terms of like, for instance, when your microwave breaks, you're like, I gotta get around to buying one sometime, right? But it doesn't really change what you can do in the kitchen. You're just like, Ah, now I gotta dirty apart when I melt butter. My right.

Yeah, I mean, the microwave is a tool that's all about convenience. subida is going to give you just quality and creativity, you can't get any other

way. Right. Okay, so now we're all familiar with what an immersion circulator is now for, again, for the three people that don't already know this saga, I'll give you the saga. So this is originally a piece of laboratory equipment. We're talking now prior to about 2004. This is a piece of our three, it's primarily with the exception of very few high end chefs around the world scattered around the world, it is a piece of laboratory equipment, it costs roughly this we're talking only 10 years ago, a little more than 10 years ago, they cost 2000 bucks. That's what they cost. And not a lot of chefs have them only like very top flight, people who are also interested in modern techniques. Right around 2004 Five, you see a price drop down to about $1,000, where it stays roughly within $200. That until roughly three years ago, when I think as Noemi, who actually broke the price barrier down below 500. And it's been driven down steadily, since with various levels of robustness and quality and equipment, along with also a robust DIY market of people building their own now. So it's driven down to the sub 200, or in the 200, between 150 and $200 range, you can get a circulator that's going to work now I think a lot of these like low price circulators have kind of crushed a lot of the DIY spirit, except for those people who always just want to build their own stuff. These are the same people that in the 70s would have been buying those RadioShack kits to make radios that aren't nearly as good as the radios you can buy for a nickel, but there will always be those people out there. And by the way, God bless those people. Before catalog people. Yeah, I'm one of those people anyway. So why don't you Chris, explain where the dual fits into to this to the to the range of immersion circulators it's already out there.

Yeah, well, so you know, I say we're comparable in terms of of cost. And we're, we're obviously giving our community a big discount today for pre orders and because they got us to this point. But, you know, there was a bunch of things that we've found over the last few years that the CBT experience really isn't is great as we'd like it to be at the end of the day. Everything else out there is still really just laboratory equipment that's been rescanned. And that tends to make it more of a gadget than an actual cooking tool. And as a chef, you know, I take a lot of pride in my tools, I like them to be reliable, I like them to be useful. I like them to be convenient. So we really sat down to rethink both the hardware but also the user experience. So, you know, on the hardware side, we shrunk it down where you know, when we started, most of the stuff weighed around nine pounds and ours got all the way down to a pound and a quarter. You know, we wanted to be small enough that you could fit it in your top drawer, which if your top door is anything like mine, it's pretty crowded. So you know we shrunk the diameter down by like a factor of four or five over the competition. So it's only an inch and three quarters in diameter and it's about 11 inches tall. So it's this really compact unit.

For those of you that haven't seen it it is visually referenced says devices for other uses. If you get my drift, it's that sort of general shape and size that we'd say it's accurate.

You mean a rolling then?

Yeah, that's what.

So you know, there's a bunch of things there where we wanted to be coming in. But we also want to be really durable and reliable. It's gonna last few years. So all of the all of the parts that are metal we forged and machined out of out of surgical grade stainless steel, we put a neodymium rare earth magnet, the bottom suit, if you're using like a cast iron, or an induction ready pot, rather than sort of fiddling around with a big bulky clamp, you just set it down and it grabs on to the pot with six pounds of force. It's hard to describe how great that experience is. But you know, we use these all day in our kitchen. And, and that's really wonderful. But I think the thing that is certainly going to be I think it's been described as bold already on the internet today was we actually took the controls off the circulator and put them into your phone, we put them into iPhones, tablets, Android phones, we're going to put it into things like watches, where, you know, you can easily set the temperature. In fact, we made that unbelievably simple and intuitive, in quite a bit faster than than buttons on the device. But we were trying to solve a problem that we've found over and over after trying to teach subi cooking for gosh, I guess I've been teaching it for about a decade. But really the last three or so years was ChefSteps. When which when somebody gets into being in his new, they don't really know where to start, you know, what temperature are they going to like? You know, how do they prefer their steak, we tend to think in terms of rare and medium rare and medium well. But those are really imprecise words that mean different things to different people. So we invented something that we call visual doneness, where we actually show short film loops in our app of what you're going to get and how to get there so that you don't have to translate your preferences as a cook into engineering parameters. You can basically express your desires in a very human way and say, well, that's that looks like exactly what I want. And the circulator jewel is going to do whatever is necessary to get you that outcome. So that I think streamlining the app, connecting it to mobile devices and leveraging the power of what we can do in the phone and in the cloud, really has the opportunity to start to change the kitchen and put humans back at the center of the cooking experience.

Now now Okay, so let's, let's just hash this out for a sec. I'm an old fogy. Right. Yeah. And actually, you agree with me you hate membrane switches, like I hate membrane switches, right? Yep. Yeah, we're both haters of the membrane switch that makes you guys old fogies? Well, because everything's moving that way. But I prefer actual, I'm also an analog control guy. So like, I did test ovens with membrane switches, where you have to sit there and like, hold your finger on a membrane switch to set a number. For instance, I have an oven that every freaking time I turn it on, it comes on at 350. And yet, like 90 times out of 100, I'm using it as a warming oven for stuff that's coming off. And so I'm punching it down to 170. Instantly. This is Fahrenheit sorry, Chris. But the but you know what I'm saying? It's like I detest that whole strategy of control. So I also makes me nervous to take controls, and indicators completely off of the machine. But what is your reaction been so far with your beta people on this? Are they mostly not all focused?

You know, it was I think, even when we first started really exploring, taking the controls off the device, it was a, you know, certainly a controversial discussion even within ChefSteps. But the more we started testing it, the more we started realizing what we were able to deliver in terms of the user experience on an app, the more competent we got. And the funny thing is, we kind of expected a lot of people when we just sort of gave it to them and said Hey, turn this on and use it. You know why we kind of stand around and watch them. We kind of expected a lot of people to ask, you know, where are the controls, where's the on button, and like, it got asked very quickly, they didn't care. It just was very natural. And in terms of how quickly they figured out how to use it and what it did in the way they discovered some of the benefits. We've become really convinced that people are going to love it. It is going to be a bit different but this is the direction things are going and somebody's really got to be first to take this plunge and that's going

to be us now it's Bluetooth and Wi Fi correct.

It is both Bluetooth and Wi Fi because there's pros and cons to both. We're able to deliver a much more reliable seamless pairing experience with Bluetooth you just need to bring your phone near to it and we use proximity to basically know what you're trying to pair with and judge which phones controlling the device. But if you want to be out at the store if you want to remotely turn the device on before you come home if you want to get a notification of that your waters reach temperature, where your food is done while you're out in the yard playing with your kids Wi Fi is much better for that. So we included both. Because we don't think the user actually cares about the technology, all they really care about is the experience working flawlessly and seamlessly

right now. Now, is there any sort of like nod to old people like me? Like, is there any visual representation from across the kitchen that you've reached temperature? Or do you have to just have your phone up is do I have to just

you do need a way of indicating that it's on that it's working that it's cooking away? And, and that's where we have we do you have an indicator LED, that very simply sort of breathes to let you know that it's cooking, and at a glance, you can tell that it's at the temperature and that everything's fine, thank God.

I'm a mortar and pestle guy, I only use a mortar and pestle, That's old school.

Well, luckily for you use it by yourself is passe. Because you believe you can use this as a pestle.

With stainless steel parts, I'm not going to stop you from using jewel as the pestle,

yeah, and it's got a little indent in the top, so you can put your thumb on it. And to get good leverage, well, you use the bottom end as a pestle.

So it's sturdy.

It's unbelievably solid. And that was one of the real goals that if in fact, it's totally sealed, I've at least on two occasions, over my career dropped an immersion circulator into a water bath both times at a very inconvenient time, since I had to serve like a dinner that load most recently at a wedding party, and you sort it out. So you know, accidents are gonna happen, you know, the kitchen is covered in goo. So we entirely seal the Julep so that it if it falls into the water, nothing bad's going to happen, it's just going to keep working. And that was actually a really big engineering challenge, because that meant we had to get all of the waste heat into the water rather than having a way to ventilate it into the air. So that was one of the real big challenges, but it ultimately actually made us much more energy efficient when we achieve that, so that we actually preheat the water faster because all of the waste heat is also going into the water

right now. Now you don't recommend it, I assume but you could make a hot tub with this. Sorry, I didn't you know, you don't recommend it. But you could like like there's no shock ability here. It's like is it med grade isolation? Can I use this for a hot tub heater? If I wanted to?

You absolutely could. You know, those are our certification requirements in just good engineering requirements. We built the thing to be safe, durable, and basically a professional grade tool.

Now here's the here's the last one because I know that like you can't possibly because I don't know what anyone makes plugs for this. But if the plug could be certified could you certify for dishwasher?

Yeah, I don't know anybody that makes plugs with it. If you throw it in the dishwasher, I don't think anything bad would happen. That's not a test I've done but have you been intimately involved in engineering this the sanitation cycle? You know, I really don't think anything bad would happen I guess I'm gonna have to try that

I just don't think the any standard plug plug that I know of is certified to be immersed for that long in ya

know, right now there's probably a one of our liability. Lawyers listening to this radio show just completely like ripping their hair out. No, I'll hear about it later.

That's what I'm for.

Yeah, but it's not going to fail. And in fact, that was one of the other things is the way we engineered the heater. There's no nooks and crannies. You don't, you're not going to need to put it in the dishwasher to wipe it clean because there's nowhere for do to stick.

So you're saying nook and cranny advantage for a Thomas's English muffin but not so much for a circulator. And cleaning I actually saw the one of the beta units last week and you can unscrew the bottom that Patrick is going to use for a pestle by the way clockwise only as you're pedaling or your unscrew the base, by the way, right I mean, the but when you undo it and you can pull the the impeller out similar to like an aquarium pump motor, right?

Yep. And then the inside of the heater is just a seamless stainless steel polish to you can stick a sponge in there and just wipe the surface clean. If anything, were to scald onto the eater, alright, and it

goes through an 18 pound turkey process. How what's the breakdown? What's your

I will go through that in a sec. I'll leave. If Chris has time. I know he's like announcing everything we'll keep them on. But let's just finish the business here first, like they had Oh, and the part of the reason that you can sell it for a reasonable price is that you guys decided to go big you think you're gonna sell a lot of these things, right?

Well to do the things we wanted to do, you really had to make a commitment to to mass production. I mean, there's parts that are ultrasonically welded, you're going to start forging massive amounts of stainless steel you know, to make a real consumer product like that you have to make a bet that that people are going to want it and that you're going to sell enough of them to justify you know, your investments into robots and and and massive production tools.

And by robot, you don't mean that you're just buying a bunch of Roombas? No,

I mean, this thing has been designed to be mostly assembled in a very automated way. And that's so that the things reliable, you know, you want everyone to have a great experience. And it turns out, you're gonna get a better result if you let robots do most of the manufacturing.

Nice. All right, and if we preorder it now, when do we get it? We're shipping in May. Okay, and what's the what do you what's the pre order cost versus what you have to pay if you wait like a chump.

So if you're already a chef, that's premium member, which is a $19, one time fee, and I think a lot of people on your show probably are, they're gonna pay $180 between today and January 15. To anybody else, it's 199. And we include a ChefSteps premium in there. And again, like you don't ever pay again, it's once and then after that retail price will be 299.

That's a substantial discount. Yeah.

Yep. Like we're building these for people in our community. We want ChefSteps community members to have a better cooking experience. So they're the people that got us to this point, we're going to make sure we take care of them.

All right. And can you stick around even though you're announcing a lot or do you have to run and do the next press thing?

I am happy to stick around if there are questions about Joule or turkey or anything else related to the kitchen. I'm happy to commit

let's do it. We got Patrick Martin's here, purveyor of heritage turkeys are you the largest heritage Turkey purveyor in the country?

How depends how you define heritage but of the true American poultry Association? Poultry? Yes. So

who is it that sells what you consider to be Trump heritage turkeys that is bigger?

Well, I wouldn't say who but they are various degrees of heritage. And actually we're looking forward to the USDA enforcing breed claims. Best smartest people were the Berkshire people a cow people do it too. They just breed in certain physical traits that make it immediately recognizable like a six spotted Berkshire, six white spots on the tip of the feet, nose and tail that certifies that it's a pure Berkshire

Alright, now I will tell you how I'm doing my turkey this year. And Chris, you see what you think on this? Actually, I have a test right now. I bought a regular turkey leg. So you know, I'm a big fan of, of making the bird look like it's a whole bird because I'm an American and anyone who doesn't make it look like a whole bird somehow. It's not very American. You wouldn't be on this, Chris.

I'm with you. Yeah, the

kind of sad to look like a bird. This is something that a French person can't possibly understand.

Norman Rockwell is an American. Yeah, the Norman Rockwell and Turkey. Yeah, it's gotta

be like, and the other thing is, is that you know, you'd like it if all the different things are done at the at the right thing. So the simplest way, in my estimation, to do it, the way I've been doing it is I will well, the last time or two is I will do a simple D bone where I cut down the back, rip out the bones, I actually leave I think the leg bones in and then inject turkey, turkey stock brine into the breast meat and just kind of rub salt over and then drape it over a plug of very hot stuffing, and then throw that in the oven and high temperature. So it cooks from inside out. And frankly, that's only an additional, like 45 minutes of work for the cook. And it cooks unbelievably fast because you're cooking from both sides. So that's kind of what I would recommend for anyone who's not going to do what do you do have any problems with that technique? Chris, for someone who's not going to go through all the trouble of of low temping the whole turkey?

Yeah, I mean, if you're, if you're not going to low temp, but that's a great way to do

it. Right. It's better than like, I've also like, in the old days, like when I had once where the turkey was bad. And I had to rush out we didn't have the time. And so pre heritage. This is long time ago. This is like maybe in the 90s, like early 90s. And literally, we were like What are we going to do? I was like, I'll tell you, we're gonna do you're gonna go buy a turkey. I'm gonna spatchcock that sucker, break it open, cook it flat on a rack, and then kind of squeeze it back into bird shape for Thanksgiving. And you know what it was not a bad was a good turkey. You don't I'm saying because spreading the turkey out like that or heating it from both sides is already a big win in terms of time. This year, what I'm doing is I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to bone it on the back. Then I'm going to rip leaving the skin intact. I'm going to rip the legs and thighs out of the bird. And I'm then going to comfy said skinless thighs and legs low. tamp the breasts and skin like an Edgar suit kind of thing. And then chill it all down. Jam the comfy legs and thighs back into the bird casing. Drape that sucker over the plug of stuffing and then I think I'm going to do I'm going to try to do two I'm gonna try to do one in the tandoor for finishing and wanting a deep fryer. We think Chris you think it's a good plan? Is a good

plan. I can't help but just listen to you and think you would have made a phenomenal torture in the in the Amid the medieval era,

yeah, well, possibly

we're going to rip the bird apart, I'm going to rip the legs off, put them at a low temperature. You take a lot of Glee in that. But that sounds like a good plan.

Well, whenever I'm doing live demos, which I haven't done a live demo of, of, like breaking down poetry in a long time, but back when I used to teach at the FCI. And I think one of the things I used to have to do is I forget what, but one of the demos that I would always have to do for the students is I'd be breaking chickens down, I think showing them how to go all the way boneless like break it down. Now Jack Papan style, he has his own way anyway, people some people would always get disconcert little disconcerted because when I'm demonstrating how to remove the thigh from the body, I always kind of indicate on my own body, if I don't have a chicken with me kind of where the knife should go. And people are like, oh, oh, you know what I mean? I'm like, but yeah, it's like, you know, it's an animal, you're breaking it down. You know?

Is there a difference in technique between hens and times? Like, 910 pound birds, you know, especially with the Soviet machines?

Oh, that's a good question. I have never cooked that small of a I don't think I've ever cooked that small of a bird. What do you think, Chris? You ever gone very small on this on these things?

Yeah, I accept probably about the size. I'll be cooking. I'm going to be cooking a 10 pound heritage Turkey myself. And what I'll be doing, I'm expecting it to be about five hours in the subi bath, and then I'll pull it out and and give it a couple more hours in my smoker?

Are you bagging it? Or are you breaking it?

I'll probably bag it. I'm not going to split it down. I'm going to keep it whole and then I'll hang it from its legs so that the weight of the bird sort of stretches itself out while it's in my smoker?

Are you going to fill the cavity with anything while it's cooking too? So they are like how are you going to make up for the compression? Are you gonna do zip like a large Zippy like they make those big zip ease?

You know, usually I can just sort of walk up some parchment paper or plastic and sort of stuff it in there. I I will put the stuffing in the smoker and have the juices drip onto it. That's when I'll introduce the stuffing.

Nice now what temperature are you going to cook it to?

I? So you know, this is always the compromise because you know, you're not just cooking for yourself. And I really don't want to you know, hear complaints from the rest of the family. So I think I'm going to end up at about 150 Fahrenheit. What's that

in Celsius? That's about what 65

Yeah,

USDA claims it has to be 165.

Yeah, that's just wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's all depends on time and temperature. But let's not get let's not get started. Let's not get started. We can go on a whole rant on this. And it's not let's not start. It's not start with this. But it's you know, it's an interesting question. The temperature the cooking to it is so it is so personal. But on Turkey, I would much rather if I was going to choose one temperature, shoot for the minimum temperature that's not going to piss people off on the dark meat rather than trying to hit the optimum temperature on the breast.

I mean, that's a good choice. That's a good call.

My answer to it is the second you cut into the meat and the juice runs clear. Oh my god and 10 seconds of that

you're you are never allowed on that microphone again. Patrick never, never

cooks like that. Well,

this dossier comes from a long line of Turkey over cookers not you personally right styles but what like how to eat like you say in your household. It was as soon as no more juices ran. That's when you knew that Turkey has done it it's like right before that Turkey catches on fire. Yeah, no, you know what's interesting. I haven't spoken to Geoffrey Stein garden in a while, but I think he tried to do one once in a self cleaning oven, but it couldn't get the interlock off.

Oh,

I think I don't know I

got it. That is not gonna end well.

Now, you have to defeat the interlock before you hit self clean. That's like, Hey, listen, no one out there listening to us. Don't go and defeat the interlock on your self cleaning oven. At least don't say that. I told you to do it. Do you clean your pans and self cleaning ovens? I'm so lazy that like when I get like an aluminum baking sheet. Like the other day I did a bunch of whole fish right. And I had a bunch of drip downs and then they got all burnt onto the baking sheet. I was like To hell with it. I just cooked this stuff in the self cleaning oven. It mites too lazy or is that like okay,

I don't know. I think that's been smart. Yeah, right. Who likes cleaning

crap off of those things. Not me. Don't do Oh, don't do it. You're doing that. Do not do it. Your cast iron do not do it your Teflon.

Hey, Tim's got a question in the chat room for Chris. He wants Chris to recommend the max capacity container that he would recommend. Oh yeah.

And give us the water on the jewel.

So for the jewel Yeah, I presume. So. You know, with these things. It's always dependent on how well insulated your vessel is. But with a typical poorly insulated pot, I'd be very comfortable recommending up to 10 gallons, so almost 40 liters. If you're using a well insulated vessel like, like a Coleman cooler, then you're gonna get away with a lot more I, you know, I've personally heated up to 70 plus liters and the Coleman cooler with an even lower power unit. So you're not going to have any problems. At some point how big you need to be in terms of actual power, the rated heating power is 1100 watts. And remember, over 99% of our power actually goes into the water, which is unusual, the more important thing is like that's about 25% faster at preheating water than the competition,

right, just so everyone knows, like there are actually lower power units now on the market. But for years, the industry standard as like as developed by like, you know, Philip Preston's original PolyScience models is 750 watts of heating roughly 750 watts of heating power was the norm. But the other important thing, and people don't think about this is how aggressive the PID programming is because you can make, you can make something like laboratory style, which means zero overshoot allowed, or you can go aggressive, which is kind of better for cooks, and you'll get like a couple of tenths overshoot, but it'll quickly settle out on Yeah, assuming you went more aggressive, right?

Yeah, we absolutely tend to tempt tuned in to be very, very aggressive.

Yeah. Which is better for cooks. I mean, don't let anyone tell you any different anyone that says any different is just wrong. You can usually I'm very nice about things like this. But anyone who says anything differently other than other than you should go on the aggressive side and allow a couple of tenths overshoot. They're just not correct.

No, it's, it's a better use. I mean, most people, it's just how fast can I get this water preheated and we set up to make it as fast as possible in our limiting factor is ultimately down to to UL certification. The power cord has to get absolutely huge once you go over 10 amps of power. So that's why you're not going to see any any real domestic circulator delivering more than about 1100 Watts,

right? Yeah, you're allowed, you're allowed 1500 Watts total draw on a plug for normal to do normal stuff. And that's why that's why hair dryers really are. And that's why everything's awaited. Right? Yeah.

And then and then it goes down to how thick Do you want your power cord and you've got to allow tolerances for not everybody's voltage is what it's supposed to be. But um, but um, but um, but um, so like, technically speaking, I would have loved to make it even more powerful and there's no reason we couldn't have made the heater more powerful. It's down to certification agencies

day by to throw them in. Okay. Fowler two. Oh, all right. Caller you're on the air. Hey, Davis did eat from New York I ran into in the bar yesterday. Nice. How you doing? Good. Well,

thanks. So my question is, myself to say hi to everyone else. I'm gonna Stassi and Jack and Chris from WebEx. I am very excited about the duel. So my question is unrelated, unfortunately to Thanksgiving or speculation. But in executing the will of unfortunately deceased old family friends, I've come across an old bottles of alcohol, like champagne and a bottle of Dom Perignon from the 60s and a Tocai. Like maybe the sweetest variety of Tocai like noble rot wine from the 70s. Nice. I think they're both. I don't know if any, if they're good at all the wine looks like the champagne look like it's probably flat and might have some sediment in it. That may even be like cork residue. Well, I was wondering if you have any ideas what to do with it? Or?

Okay, where was it stored? Where was it stored?

I think it was stored in the dark, but it's really been long enough that you know, at room temperature, but it's been long enough that I'm that I'm not confident.

But it wasn't it wasn't in a basement was it in a cool room temperature situation like

probably in a closet, or a cupboard? For probably most of the time,

but like a high cupboard, like a high cupboard. Please not a high cupboard. Please tell me it was. Yeah, yeah. Little known fact people don't think about your high coverage in your kitchen are much, much, much hotter than your low cupboards are. And in general, high cupboards much hotter than low cupboards. But yeah, well, here's some more questions for you the usage on the wines, do they look like fairly normal? Or is there been a lot of liquid lost?

It doesn't seem like there's been any liquid loss in the Tocai. And there may be some in the champagne, but I haven't compared it against another bottle. It does look like it's pretty flat, though.

Well, it's hard to tell or unsealed right.

It is yeah, they're both still sociol

You have exactly two options, drink it with some very good friends and then have an experience or sell it. These are the only two options. Now I my stepfather has a similar problem because he's the owner Have some 85 Roman a con t. And this bottle of wine that he has is worth, I think it's over 10 grand now it's like it's like, so it's, you know, to me, it would be impossible to drink it. But on the other hand for him since it's not replicatable It'd be impossible not to drink. And so he, he's put himself in a situation where it's not possible to not drink it. And your situation knows, since you don't necessarily know how the storage is, I don't know what the price is going to be Chris, you have any experience with this kind of stuff?

Not a lot. I'm actually kind of enjoying learning something here from you, Dave.

But the so, like, I know for instance, you know, my stepfather stuffs been kept like in a super temperature controlled kind of cellar environment for since it was new since 85. And so like his stuff has maintained his value if you want to oxygen except for he did what they did once have a flood which put a watermark on some of the labels, which, you know, doesn't hurt the wine, but like, freaks some people out. So I don't really know. And I don't know what the market, what year is the dawn period? Is it vintage or not vintage?

It has a year on it, if that's what you mean, I think it's 62.

I don't know anything about yours on champagne. But if it's a vintage champagne, there are people who all they like to do is go drink vintage champagnes. And so if it's been kept in fairly decent condition, you at least have yourself like an amazing party to have with your friends. But at the very least something like that you should get it like a serious owner file in and there are I you know, I don't frequent them. But there are lots of wind discussions where someone can tell you first of all on champagne, obviously. Obviously, we know Mr. Macias interest is piqued. But, you know, they don't make a vintage champagne. And they won't put a year on the champagne unless they thought it was going to be a good aging bottle. The sweet wine you're probably going to have really, I think you might have really good luck on the sweet wine too, since a lot of those will have very, very long aging potential. It's simply a matter of that temperature and the conditions in which it's cast. But if you have if your eulogy is good, you know, if the if the air gap in the bottle is good, you have a good

shot. You know, and I'm not so worried about the the the the Tokai. And I think, you know, I'm I think people tend to overestimate the impact of the storage temperature too. I think fluctuations in the temperature that are actually the bigger deal. But I think a Tokai like, is going to probably be very drinkable.

Yeah. I mean, the oldest champagne I've ever had was a good bit mean, in terms of, like actual time since it was bottled to when it was I, I've had them from the early 80s, I think, but I've never had. So that's and that was last year. So that's, but you're talking to good 20 years older than that. I'm sure I'm sure. I'm sure it has that I'm sure it has value, you might want to sell it. And if you live in New York being there are laws about it. But there's also a lot of wine dealers who won't necessarily pay attention to the law. Like there are some states where you're allowed to sell the wind back to the same person you bought it from but nobody keeps records and nobody knows, you know what I mean? But I don't know what the value is on that you'd have to go go look it up. You know what,

I look at the wind seeker or something like that, to try to find out

you know what else I would do? If I were you new years or whatever is hot depends, like don't open this in the presence of a bunch of like, you know, like, like swell masters who are just going to like, you know, pound this stuff like, what you do is in a situation like new friends and yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's I tell people that all the time, your first step is to go get different friends. The second thing you should do is buy a backup bottle of decent, but not crazy stuff, whatever you can afford to have, right? And I take Chris's suggestion in mind that Tokai is going to be fine. The champagne has a good chance of being sublimed read up on drinking old champagne so you know what to expect and what to get and then have a backup bottle so that if you have a bottle of swill on your hands, you always have a backup and nobody's ever going to be unhappy with that. Chris, were you think about that?

I think you should never have the regret that you never had enough champagne in your life.

Bingo. Bingo. All right, well, listen, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna decide whether you're going to sell it you're gonna look at the pricing, decide whether you're going to sell it or whether out of deference to you know, your past relative, that you're going to drink it and have a good time and you're going to call us back after the event and you're gonna let us know what happened. All right. All right now.

So I have one more question. That's Thanksgiving and Chris related. Okay.

Caller you're on the air.

Hello, everybody. This is Steve from Indianapolis. So my question first of all, regarding the circulator, and the centrifuge coming out, shut up and take my money. Nice,

thank you and

no problem. And secondly, I'm a I'm a med student in Indianapolis right now. And I'm actually involved in a food, kind of like a food education program for not only the med students, but the local community. How what is the easiest, like chivvied recipe that you would say, to kind of get people on board with circulators? Because I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to say like, Hey, it's the best kind of slow cooker or for like amazing meats and things like that, you can do really cheap cuts of meat and things like that. So I'm just trying to consider how to present it. And I just wanted some suggestions. Chris, what do you got?