Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram. Today's

program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information visit heritage foods usa.com

I'm Michael Lamego. From food talk you're listening to hurt edge Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you liked this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more

to cooking issues this is Dave Arnold your host of cooking issues coming to you pre recorded from the Heritage radio network and reverse pizza we're in Bushwick bro ain't doing stars join us usual stars. How you doing? Good. Yeah, yeah. Nastasia the hammer Lopez people you can't call in to speak to her while she's wearing it but she's wearing for the first time this year at the radio show. Her marvelous Christmas hat I think we got a tweet us or something that that her hat because the hat is like there's a

photo online. Here with it. Yeah, really? Yeah, there is strangely did that. I don't know me.

It is a it is a fantastic Christmas hat is completely unrelated to the phenomenon of the ugliest Ugly Christmas Sweater of which you also have several. Yes, yes. But this is actually a legit awesome Christmas hat. It turns her entire head into a festive Christmas tree. Totally covering the sourness that comes out of the mouth attached to the hat. Wow. Oh, wow. Oh,

and Christmas.

Merry Christmas. Joined in the booth with our good buddy. Jackie molecule's.

What's up?

Jackie Ainsley, how's it going?

It's great. I'm in a really, really, really good mood because the cooking issues listeners have gotten like above and beyond with their donations to the network. And it's awesome. Nice. So awesome. They really represented so well. There are too many of them for me to even shout out. It's crazy. But just know that every time those come in, we're everybody in the team is like super, super stoked. And, and we can't thank you all enough.

Awesome. Awesome. So I just came from a by the way. So we're recording this on Monday instead of on Tuesday. Because Nastasia has to go up to Boston tomorrow to get why are you flying out of Boston to get started thinking that you're going to Boston to go to Boston now. Getting a flight from Boston? Yep. Let me guess. $50 cheaper? No, a lot cheaper. Like how much cheaper? Like $150 cheaper. How much is it costing you to get to Boston? It's $30 on the bus and So, so do this math here.

What's your time worth? So

$120? By the way, if you want to start if you want to start to throw away four hours of her time, in each direction, no, I

fly back into New York. Okay?

Whatever, I don't want it. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. So you'll enjoy this Anastasia. So, earlier today, I had to do a series of videos for VOCs for the museum of food and drink as part of our contractual obligation with infinity. And, you know, food science demos, no one asked me to just sit around and talk about I don't know something. It's always like some sort of tech and sciency stuff, right? So they said, hey, you know, what's your we're gonna do liquid nitrogen. I'm like, really, really jacking? I'm really the only times I've done liquid nitrogen demo. Yeah. So many, many. And so I figured I was gonna mix it up a little bit. So you're gonna like this, you're gonna want to hate you already. You already heard worse. Peter ruins everything he's supposed to come on the show Peter from came from the Museum of food and drink. He's like, Oh, yeah, I'll come on. If there's like, no beauty man, not busy. He sucks all my time this morning. He's gonna suck all my time. This afternoon. He's too busy to come on the radio show with us, instead just calls him ruins the surprise for you. But you folks here haven't heard yet. So here's what it is. So I'm like, You know what? Liquid nitrogen, as we all know, is amazing. But it has three main safety issues. One, it can get cold burns, right, you can get cold burns from it. And that can either be from ingesting it, which you should never ever, ever do, or from, you know, getting it poured onto your pants or some other thing, right? You can get it on your hand, you know, because the Leidenfrost effect, it'll just roll off won't do anything. But you know, there's coal Burns is there. The situation is a big one. Remember, Myhrvold almost killed himself in his car with liquid nitrogen. And so we have all these safety rules against this fixation. But the other one is Jack. Any guesses? You know this one? No. explosions. Oh, yeah. So you can do the explosion noise again. So, yeah, yeah. And in fact, years ago, and we always talked about it, there was a German Cook, who took liquid nitrogen in a sealed container home from the restaurant. And it exploded in his girlfriend's bathroom and like, took off one of his legs, one of his hands most of the other hand, put them in a column, etc, etc. Because the pressure just keeps building, and building and building right. But I've never actually done the demo. Because I've always wanted to do the demo, right? So I take a swear to God, the name of this stuff. Like I was like, listen, we're gonna blow up. You know, we're not in front of a big audience. We're just we're gonna blow up a plastic bottle with liquid nitrogen to show how dangerous it is, right? So I take this thing, it's called harmless water. You heard of this harmless water. It's some sort of one of these coconut waters, but it's in a non carbonated bottle, right? So it shouldn't be a problem. You know what I mean? So anyway, so I'm like, man, so I get I'm like, I'll get a camera because cameras are made out of, you know, polycarbonate. They're strong. And that's, that's not supposed to shatter. It's supposed to bend. It's made out of polycarbonate. Okay. So, okay, I get a big Cambro I get this little harmless water, right, and some liquid nitrogen. And you know, I have safety goggles and all this. So I pour the liquid nitrogen into the harmless water container. And I screw it, and I quickly dump it critically into the camera, and then I back off and go down, right so that my eyes aren't over the top of the thing. And it was like, nothing happened. Like literally nothing happened. So I like tap the thing. Nothing and slosh it around. Nothing. Nothing the finally I swear and like it's it's nervous. Do you ever like fireworks in your kids? Does I never let them Jack? No, really? No. I feel like we've all been raised on SV if they were around I never lived. Okay, so anyway, so anyway, if you light a firework and it doesn't go off, you're in a dangerous situation like that's what you do. You don't want that if you light a firework you want to go off because it dud you have to go dispose of a dud and it might not be a dud it might come on and like shoot you in the eye or burn that whatever you get me. So I'm in a fight I'm in a dud firework situation here, right? We're talking like a minute and a half later. And all of a sudden, part of this is these harmless water bottles are a obviously not harmless and be much stronger than for instance Fiji water bottles, which I know I can blow up with a measly like 100 110 psi. Because I've done that I've held a Fiji water bottle exploded it while I was carbonating it like you know anyway, so all of a sudden this bottle starts freaking growing like growing and like starting to look more like a watermelon and I'm like and it was when it finally went. It shattered. The first of all the bottle like disintegrated like a balloon. The Cambro freaking shattered and sent Cambro pieces everywhere. And it was the loudest it was like shooting off like like three or four shotguns all at the same time. Thank God they got it. I was like I was like we're gonna run a test but you're gonna film this because I might never do it again. Yeah, I mean, and the video it's horrifying but So we had, you know, one out there needs to try this video is horrifying, but kind of hilarious because what you see is you see me looking at it trying to figure out what's going on, then you see the explosion and then like a second later I'm like, oh, and I fall over. Like that would help. Anyway, so keep your eyes out for that video. I don't know if they're gonna actually put that section of it in there but you know you don't I like to do the I like to do the what not to do in a semi controlled environment. Very important. Very important. Although Jack Do you know how many times and I've said this before and I've told people not to do this. You know, many times I've done demos where I'm like, absolutely never do what I'm about to do and then they leave out that part and just had me doing the bad thing. It's happened to me so many times every time I do it in a sassy, she's there and she shakes her head back and forth. She's like, how many times it's gonna take before you learn. Wow,

yeah, it's because it's funny really bad has happened. Well,

I'm gonna edit an episode of the show Dave and just things that you say not to do. Right? I'll take out the disclaimer, you know? Yeah, Dave's top 10 tips for the year look who's back

when Oh, yeah, what's a Satanist sent us a little send a little hipster the you know we for those you just tuning in for the first time to our show we enjoy poking fun at the friendly staff have Roberta's as does everyone right? Yeah. It's all it's all love. Tala. I haven't really heard what do you mean? That's why my wife doesn't trust me anymore. Yeah, no, I let myself on fire. While since you really hurt yourself. It's been a while since I really damaged myself. Yes. Yeah. If you unless you count slipping with the with a mall and shoving it through my toe or any of those other things, but they didn't what I wasn't cooking at the time. It's been a long time since I've injured indication. Yeah. Is that true? Did I slice myself open recently? That was Yeah, but I was cooking at home three. Now. That was when

I was in the basement.

And they make Christmas cookies yesterday. Yes. Yeah. Do you make Christmas cookies anymore? Says or do you ruin that one time that we tried to make all those Christmas cookies for the parents here? I don't make any Oh my god. What kind of Christmas cookies your parents sugar? Just sugar and fudge. Do you like fudge? Really? For real? Do you actually enjoy eating fudge? Jack fudge?

Yeah, really, uh, do small doses.

There you go small doses in so you've actually hit a thing that I like it like I can have small doses but I would never be like, I'm going to tuck into this giant block of fun God no, no. You know, I mean, to be seen people do it. Like I could eat an entire tray of brownies. Yes, but I only want like a little bit of fun. And we we had this conversation what kind of brownies are you guys? Are you guys the dance brownie people you cake brownie people dance for me? Dance Dance Dance. I like them both. I liked them both. noncommittal,

but nuts are no nuts.

I like nuts in a brownie, but I would always choose not nuts. Okay, like I don't mind it. I don't mind the taste of it. But the problem is, is that they can get a little soggy and to me a brownie should be almost uni textural. I don't really need textual variation in my brownie.

So like no chocolate chips. No, a lot of brownies have like chocolate chips in

them. Yeah, not mine. Unnecessary. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I like chocolate chips. And I like brownies, but I don't need them in the same pitch. What about you says yeah,

I can go either way. You

know and also not a huge I like it fine, but I'm not a huge fan. I'm not a huge fan of does hyper like solid block of chocolate poured on top of the brown. Yeah, or the frosting stuff on top of a brownie. It's it's a lot. It's a lot. Like there's something about a brownie even a dense brownie that allows you to eat almost an unlimited amount of it. And I don't know what that is. You know what I mean? As opposed to like fudge fudge is self limiting. You're like you eat a little bit you're like okay, I'm done. Now that was good. Now I'm done. So anyway, so that kind of leads me into the cookies that I make. I'm always make three cookies. I make sugar cookies, because the kids like to use that we use the gun spritz gun. You like those? No, I've never used one you know the secret right on to the aluminum pan. Because otherwise you'll pull up the parchment or whatever anyways and the dough has to be the right temperature but yeah, they love the gun. They always make the same damn rosette and then they try to make the Scottie dog we have Scottie dogs rosettes Christmas trees but they're all the shapes always in a messed up the rosette it doesn't really matter because they if they bleed they bleed in the circle so who cares anyways. So I make those I make the almond rember the Rick which really isn't that I make I make those I burnt out actually my next America like the motor came back on but I was trying to grind all the almonds in my next America next lawmaker and it was rockin and then all of a sudden it's stalled and went poof and smoke came out of the bag but I was like no because next time I'm gonna go to Mexico and I would give up my my corn grinder just because I was trying to be a bonehead and making almond cookies. That sounds like some stupid crap I would do right is yeah, now and then I make the I make these cookies that like theoretically they're not Good, but they're like my favorite cookie. And everyone also seems to kind of like them is that is it these cookies that are like my great great grandma's recipe from like the 1800s. They're like a, you know, like black and white cookies aren't really cookies, they're little cakes with icing. These are like that, but they're chocolate, and they're made with collaborative milk. And so you make a collaborative milk and put this chocolate icing over the top called bonbons, but they're really dry. So you have to drink something with them, but you keep eating them and eating them and eating them. You know cookies like that? No. Do you like those Italian hyper dry like vanilla cookies?

What my grandma makes she Sicilian. Yeah,

I love those. Don't you love those? You

just keep drinking and drinking like water with it?

Yeah, yeah, but yet you still want more? Weird, weird. Anyway. That's what I did. Nice. Oh, and I got back from China. We haven't talked about China. Yeah. centrifuge. We have a lot of stuff to talk about.

That's why we don't need colors.

So you said that Chinese takeout in China tastes like Chinese takeout here. Oh, yeah.

Well, also, when I said that, I was quite disappointed because I was supposed to have gone to this like, awesome Sichuan restaurant where this where the waiters know how to like they can do that mask trick where they change their their opera masks like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And instead, the meeting ran late, because turns out it takes a long time to explain to people how to build a centrifuge. And so instead, I got like, this little thing of Chinese takeout and I was like, I can't believe this. And then when I ate it, I was like, I cannot believe this is tastes like I walked across the frickin street. You know, to like, the local Chinese takeout and you know, got their, you know, logo. It was like crazy.

It was comforting for me to hear them. Yeah. Yeah, I

think so. All right. Yeah. I mean, you know, about had a lot of had a lot of good, good, good, interesting, interesting food while I'm there. Like, I think I said also on the Twitter, like, add some really cool steamed Bong varieties that you don't get over here, or that I have never had before. So I need to do some investigation on that. I'm thinking I don't really have any time. But, you know, one of the things I'm interested in is starches. So like being over there really made me think I need to up my starch game. So I want to like I'm going to start categorizing. There's I have a couple of technical books now on starches I need to read to get a handle on it because you ever noticed that people they say the same if you look up people's descriptions of different starches and what they're good for and what they're not good for. They're always extremely vague. If you do that you probably

hate searches. What I hate the sound that makes

oh but you love starches? You like noodles? Oh, you mean like start Yeah, yeah. So But anyways, but like like most of the most of the you know popular writing on using different varieties for instance, like you know, you got you got your sweet potato, you got your your water chestnut, you got your Caltrop which is the other kind of watercress nut, which is they're entirely different species. You got yours zillion different starches, you got your tapioca is your potatoes and not even to mention your modern or modified starches. Anyway, I want to go through that before I really get into the kind of like bun thing I want to go through kind of a starch, starch extravaganza. And there's actually there's an interesting book from 1919. I think, that has like these lunatics just took a pictures of like 500 Different starches, it's on the internet. Maybe I'll post a link to it so people can see like this, like start that that person didn't give a rat's behind about cooking. Anyway, I look forward to hearing more. Don't take any more. Because remember, you know at clefs, who writes in sometimes on Twitter, he's from Japan, or lives in Japan, he came up with this interesting problem. You ready for it? I'm going to try and tackle this probably not over the break. I won't have time. But he I think it was buckwheat either buckwheat or rye I can remember wants to make something the texture of fresh mozzarella. Made out of that with the flavor, the flavor of I forget what it was rye or buckwheat texture, fresh mozzarella. And I was like, You know what? That sounds like? It'd be good. You know what I mean? And I think I know how to do it. It's like a mixture of like soy milk, cashew cheese LBG kappa. And like, I got to figure out how to get the flavor of the buckwheat without having too much additional starch. Anyway, I'm working on it just just so you people know. I'm working on it. Is there any way to set up like a like a like a open source like where like you're like, This is the thing you have to do to include the information like I'm gonna come up with like standardized starch recipes to test out the different starch things and then you know, do them and then there's no way I could have other people.

I don't know. I'm sure that exists and

on how to do it. I'm just terrible communication with people. That's the thing. What are you doing for Christmas does

going home for two days, two days, two

days. Long way to go for two days out there out to LA at well, not really Covina land of good burger. What about use in your molecules? What are you doing for the holiday?

Oh, drive to Long Island for the night? Yeah, that's it.

Alright, let's take some questions. Hey, David, this acid Jack and the rest of the crew. It's just us today. Just us out Alex, from the Bay Area up near where you went to college. Does you have any love for the Bay Area?

I hate the Bay Area.

already? What do you really think about it? Merry Christmas Bay Area people. The Stasi hates you. I have a question regarding pressure cookers and induction cooktops. I had a fagard duo earlier. Yes, yes, I'm aware that they don't make a great stock as I read from your cooking as great of a stock as a reading and cooking issues primer. But I was thinking of maybe getting a giant mason jar of sorts, and sticking the bones and trapping all of that within the lid, if that was a possible method of retaining more flavor. It is. In fact, Modernist Cuisine does that all the time they were the first people I think, to demonstrate that, to me is the idea that if you don't have a sealed pressure cooker, you can just seal things inside of something in the pressure cooker. And it's you know, same, same same. Unfortunately, I also live in an apartment that has a rather terribly old electric stove. I was wondering if buying a single separate induction top would be advisable since it may offer better controls? And if so, are there any recommended brands? Yeah, they're awesome. I love them. I don't have any like kind of brands. I have had some die on me, but I think they just get better and better. The main problem with induction cooktops, frankly, is the inexpensive ones. I mean, you could buy really expensive ones. How much was the what did we end up selling ours for us? Does 800 900 now but that's a real one. You know what I mean? Like, like 220 or whatever doesn't you know you need to separate the ones that go into 110 the problem people have with it and it a lot depends on how old you are and how good your hearing is because they make this horrible noise. Doesn't always bother you started Yes, I hate it. Yeah. jakirah you know what I'm talking about? No, yeah. So like, every inexpensive induction burner that I've ever used. Just goes Do you know what you mean? Yeah, you know what I mean? And so like, if you're like me, like an old fart that can hear worth spit anyway, like it doesn't really matter it doesn't bother me so much but you know, the Stasha like like can't stand that

it's like hearing an ice cube that's like on metal

or remember that they dry ice on yeah hotel pan Yeah, yes, that's horrible. Man I used to love turning on the ultrasonic vermogen homogenizer watching everybody run and you know there's got to be some benefits to listen to too much loud music in your headphones for years and it's I can I can be around things that are unpleasant constantly. Me Look I do it every day so what I recommend brands My other question is in regards to the Instant Pot and all the other electric pressure cookers that were on sale recently from Black Friday. I don't know the Instant Pot Do you start so Jack? You've heard of the Instant Pot No. I don't know the Instant Pot but I have used electric pressure cookers in fact I know the designer of the Cuisinart electric pressure cooker. And I think they are convenient and they're good and you don't have to one of the things you have to worry about although it's not as big a deal with an induction top is just remembering to throttle the throttle it down so it doesn't you know, doesn't scorcher or over pressurize my issue with the electrics. I think they're very convenient on you know, mine blew up eventually not not exploded, died. That's more, you know, didn't explode. Because I've had that happen to as stars remembers. It was around Christmas time when we blew up that pressure cooker. Right? Yeah, we had a stock fountain. Yeah, awesome. Good times. So the problem is, is they are a slightly lower pressure. So you need to recalibrate your recipes. And I really prefer to cook at 15 psi, then I think I forget what they though a lot of those run, they run like seven, I don't know why they run lower. I think part of the problem is that they're not actually judging pressure, they're actually controlling the temperature and the controlling of temperature a little bit higher. And I think that's really the reason and that's why I was able to take my electric pressure cooker and fool it into getting a higher pressure by just altering the sensor so that it was wrong in the temperature and jacked it up to the normal pressures that you want to use. Now. Again, that voids any warranty, but it does work. The other problem with the electric pressure cookers, frankly is is that a lot of times like you know, I use Khun recon, but it was a gift I didn't have to pay for it. And it's a good pot though. So the good thing about a good pressure cooker pot that's not like an electric kettle is a usually you can get the pot itself up to really high temperatures really quickly over a normal sort of a stove and so it allows you to like you know, it allows you to saute the onions first or if you're gonna do a pre sear like brown the meat beforehand or something like this. That's a huge advantage whereas I always found that with my electric pressure cooker I would have to brown the meat or do the onion somewhere else because it was just taking for freaking ever who wants to sit around for whole point of the pressure cooker a lot not always but a lot of the time the point of a pressure cooker is I can have something done in like 1520 minutes. And so who wants to wait 15 or 20 minutes for the onions to freakin saute so that you can And then have a pressure cooker thing done in 20 minutes and it's like doubling the freaking time it takes to make something who wants that? Do you want that stuff? No, no. Do you don't have a pressure cooker do why you don't cook that way. You don't do braces? No, I don't. Do you don't like braces.

Usually one for one person. So

oh, man, man. This by the waist stars is like, like trying to do some sort of like Christmassy blues crowd because I don't miss it every day of the week necessities like I gotta get home because I'm cooking for like 30 people there in my house that take like, it's I'm praying the pressure cooker is 20 min. 20 freakin minutes is what I'm trying to tell you.

It's just it seems like a lot of work. Seems like a lot of work.

If any listener wants to send Nastasia Secret Santa gift.

No, no, no. Wow. No. Wow. Wow. Yeah, okay. Let me see here got a question in three related questions. And we're supposed to have the questions from last week but like with this whole blowing things up at the thing, I am all discombobulated. So these are the questions I have. One of the amazing things about low Tim cooking has been being part of the online community that has put in so many hours working on and sharing techniques and ideas. That technique has been largely ignored by the cookbook publishing world and they saying they're about four books is that true? I don't know there's the Thomas Keller there's the original one Roca book. There's Modernist Cuisine modernist at home what do they have now? They also have they have modernist in the small cafe modernist in the bar. Modernist in the bar monitor. Just kidding. And yours may be well, no, I don't have Kendrys book has some stuff in it. I'm sure the ideas and food guys have some in their books.

Or what about a couple?

Yeah, something it isn't food? No. No. I don't know. Sure. There's more. But you're right. There's not as many as there could be. There's there's also some European ones. But while the Roca wants a European one. There's that weird German one where the temperatures were like twice as high as they should be. Remember that one? No. Anyway, a long time ago. Anyway, the uniqueness of the term was it was ignored by a couple of publishing the uniqueness of the term has allowed the online community to connect and build a body of knowledge that we can now benefit from. I agree that cvwd As a word as a low quality description for low temperature cooking, however, is impossible to Google low temp techniques and temperatures minutes through, I guess, is it worth giving up the benefit we've received from the term in order just about accuracy? I don't know. I never said. But again, yeah, you're right. Like I have benefited from Google Search Analytics with things like cooking issues with as one word or like Booker index. Yeah, I mean, look, it's too late. I've been saying this for a long time, it's too late to go back. And, you know, not have had relations with the dog on this one. It's like, you know, I just think it's, it's bad because it's not, it's like, not accurate. It's less than important now, I guess, because people know it all. But it was really a big deal. When law restaurants were getting, you know, fines and shut down for using cvwd. And people were confusing the two techniques because low temperature cooking with a circulator that had no actual regulations on it, it was just a vacuum machine that had the regulation. So it was dragging an entire set of techniques into like a, like a kettle of nasty hot water when it didn't need to be. And I think, you know, especially when I was talking to Philip Preston back in the day, and other people I was like, why are you marketing? A? Why are you marketing a cook a piece of cooking equipment that can be used without a vacuum machine and you're hanging the name of it and the name of the technique on this other much more expensive piece of equipment that you don't need to invest in right away. So it just doesn't make any doesn't make any sense. It would be like saying, you know, it would be like only having the word for sunglasses be driving glasses, so that you felt that you had to go buy a freakin automobile just to use a pair of freaking glasses and it's not the case. It's not really a good analogy, but I'm coming up with on top my head just like normally, you don't need a vacuum machine for a low temp cooking or for a circulator. So why would you tie the terms together? But again, I've lost so whatever you know, you can't turns out not only can you not win them all, you can't really win any of them. You don't I mean? Can't when to does Anastasia hate rabbits? No. mean well,

pets are eating.

It's fine to eat too.

What are you doing? You have no thoughts Well, no,

I haven't eaten it enough. I bet it's fine. I will eat it.

I got a rabbit sausage once from Heritage Foods is one of the best things I made like a pasta with it. So good.

It's a strong plug Jack. That's good. Thanks. Just working that right in there. You don't even have the question ahead of time. Right looks nice. So they're no Anastasia does not hate rabbits alive or dead unless they're served with biscuits in which case she hates it.

Like, like a rabbit sausage egg and cheese on a biscuit. Sounds good.

Does except for no biscuits.

Nobody says you're crazy.

She really is straight up nuts. It just doesn't make any sense. How about Yorkshire pudding?

Not had that what is that? Well, it's

not really a biscuit. It's like when you take when do you like prime rib at Christmas time? Jack, do you like a prime rib at Christmas time? Yeah, I think I might have prime rib a Christmas time this year. So what you do is is when you cook the prime rib in traditional way, or if you do if you do low temp for insurance and then do a roast off on it, you get the drippings into the pan, right. So you have these fat drippings in the thing. And then you basically take a what we used to call like a Dutch baby mix, which is like a thin pancake batter whipped up with a bunch of eggs and you dump it into the pan with the grease and just puffs up into this like beef grease. Sounds good. Pop over it's like it's like it's like it's like one giant pop. over.com So you like so you like popovers? I do like so you're not a total enemy of quality. Jack you like popovers? Right? Yeah. Is there anyone that doesn't like a popover?

Hard to find?

It's matter. It's terraced. Isn't it? The same share you've been using for five years? Or somebody big satin does somebody Big Sit in a stasis chair?

I can't say comfortable. Wow. You've been

you've literally sat in this chair for almost 200 episodes flown

out and maybe this one that's usually here and this one this one's over their jacket donate

to heritage radio today and help us buy new chairs.

Yeah, Anastasia is Anastasia as well. Thank you. Yeah. Back to rabbits. That said the online community has failed me completely when it comes to rabbits. This is all from by the way from Jane Jane five on so I think it's probably Jameson with a five. It's like that's the password anyway. I bought a rabbit at Union Square over the weekend. Went to sue the sad want to sue the saddle later but in first looking to low temp coffee legs. Online temperatures and times are all over the map. Blog commenters complained about pasty on every almost every site I found making any recommendations I saw a forum post claiming that Modernist Cuisine calls for 66 degrees Celsius for one hour. Hi, other sites were doing tests around 60 to 64 Celsius but all with an ongoing conversation about time and claiming that too long and the meat goes pasty when you think about the word pasty don't like it don't like it you like it? No. What about like potash? You

know don't like it. No, we know what

to pass to us.

Yeah, you front are you all of a sudden you're from that area of the country where were you from?

Long Island but I went I went up to the upper peninsula this summer. Yeah, Michigan and ahead like a traditional pasty some

meat pies. Yeah, with a good is really good. What are the crosslake? Was a crest flaky? It was so little bit flaky like oily. Pipe our love of potpie? Yeah. Okay, stars. Yes. Popeye. Okay, so you like hate biscuits, but like pie crust?

No, I don't like the crust of a pie. And

wow. No way you break it up. No, you know what? Well, first of all, I like a traditional frickin pot pie. Here's what I don't want. I don't want you to take a hotel pan. Throw some crumbly crust bits on top of the pot pie mix and say that you serve me a potpie No way. That is garbage. Garbage. potpie I remember when I was a kid. I used to put myself on fad diets when I was a kid. Because I don't know like literally like I would do I would like not eat all day. I used to you know what I used to eat a lot of when I was a kid to stay calm to remember stadiums. stadiums are like they're like fake cheese steak meat. It's like pulped pulp beef that they spray onto a piece of wax paper and then free solids so bad. Yes, you literally what you have to do is you have to take it apart frozen, because otherwise it just disintegrates it back into meat paste again. And you stick it on your on your electric skillet because invariably these are made with electric skills from the 70s and then they kind of shrivel up and they solidify into these kind of like cheesesteak get things anyway, so I had everything like exactly sussed out I was like X number of slices of American cheese X amount of sauteed onions X number of steak comes on this particular roll with mayo and ketchup was like right at this number I forget what the number was but I had it right dialed in and it would be all I ate all day because I was an idiot. Anyways, already even on this are we talking about? Popeyes we started with I remember I looked up like how many calories were in a pot pie and I was like, oh my god and you know what then I realized calorie counting is for the birds crap on that. I was like, You know what? And you know, have you ever read the book Catching Fire know how cooking made people human or whatever. It's interesting, but they you know, they talk about a lot of things. You know, one of the things it's 100% True is every calorie counting mechanism that is used is complete garbage. And you know, the this person actually has random I think isn't, actually has real data to back it up. Whereas I always use this simple thought experiment. I said this one before on the air, I don't know, if you take Jackie, you could do this over the holidays, if you take a gallon of oil, right, and you calculate how many calories were in a gallon of oil, you gain a good amount of weight, right? If calories were actually calories, if you could actually absorb all the calories that you eat in an equally potential way. Right? swallowing a gallon of oil would be problematic. However, if you swallow the gallon oil, you just crap a gallon of oil out. You know what I'm saying? And now he says it in the book and a much more kind of

your like smoothie and juicing thing.

I think juicing though, you're gonna absorb a lot more so like I actually absorb less than I guess the average person because I will things down and start he says that I'm in human. So like all chunks of like, you know, anyway, his main point is that raw food diets are literally that like, you know, even a very rich, Western city dweller can barely survive on a raw food diet in terms because they have to eat so much more. Because you're the foods that lead till you cook it the food's not really available to your body, so they have to eat so much more. So his point is, is that and this is why it's how cooking made us human is that there's no way that modern humans could have existed based on a raw diet because he says chimps have to spend like, like almost a third of their day chewing things, because they're eating raw raw food and they have to eat so much of it and they have to chew the hell out of it. Until we get on this Popeyes

detour was from pasty that was my fault.

Oh, yeah. All right. Well, that's always my fault, Jack. It's never your fault. Oh, meat goes pasty. Yeah. Anyway, if time is so important, doesn't that mean that they are cooking so hot? That you might as well use an oven and not really low temperature? Why would the rabbit be unique in requiring such a specific time requirement unless we are getting the temps wrong? And do you have any suggestions on time or temps? Furthermore, even traditional coffee recipes do not seem to agree. I have seen people insisting that you keep the oven under 210 degrees and others calling for 350 and even 375 times vary from two hours to 10 is the time if the time is such a factor on the low temp Why is there no talk of pasty in the oven methods thanks for your for your help. Jameson. Jamie five son, Jamie five on five on David's. Here's why. You don't notice the pasting is in a piece of meat when you simply overcook it right. So the classic pasty meat that you get is tenderloin, any kind of tenderloin. If you cook it for too long, even without overcooking, it tends to go pasty. And that's because the muscle doesn't actually have any real structure of its own. That's the problem. So things things like beef tenderloin are always described when they're cooked too long as pasty and I haven't done a lot of rabbit low temp. But I guess rabbit has the same kind of an issue. Anything that like I say is like very low in connective tissue. I think that chicken especially if it's vacuum bagged and cooked too long, goes kind of pasty or fibrous. It's almost the fibers like become almost separated so that when you eat it, you get all this liquid at once, but then it turns into like a mush of fibers in your mouth as you chew it. And it's because the meat doesn't have too much structure of its own. That's the real problem. So that's what they're talking about. And it doesn't happen in traditional cooking because you just usually undercooked the inside and overcook the outside and overcooking it just makes it hard so it doesn't make it pasty. That's why it really only happens in these situations where you can get large pieces of meat that are all the same cooking temperature throughout it that you really noticed the phenomenon. Anyways, so the trick is, is that you want to minimize also I think duck can get pasty duck can also go livery. So some of the two faults that you get with certain kinds of meats by cooking them too long even at the proper temperature is a fibrous Nisour tastiness, sometimes like I say it's more fiber sometimes it's more paste the worst also is like things like shrimp sometimes have an enzymatic reaction in them at low temperatures where they just turned to almost literally a paste it's completely unedible when you cook it for too long. So those are the ones that are really kind of time limited and it applies to the lower time lowered you know part of the temperature scale like where you're not going all the way to a brace but you're in like kind of the lower limit it's usually meets that high or low and connective tissue on the patient is on the livery side. It's usually like duck can go livery if you cook it too long. Things like especially a really terrible are like cuts of beef that like don't have a lot of fat or structure like I have round in them. They tend niggle livery and nasty when you when you cook them too long. And so that's why I tend to not really cook things like tenderloin low temp, unless you're doing like a Wellington or something like this, and you need to just cook it through really quickly. But I tried to keep all of those times on things that go Pacey under an hour. And you can do that in a couple of ways. So if you have something, it's thick, you can, you have to figure it out. But you can basically set your waterbath a little bit higher than you actually want the center to be, and then pull it a little bit early before the thing gets up. Or you could do any number of things like that. But it is problematic. It's best to try to keep pieces of things that go pasty in ways that you can cook them in under an hour. I've never really noticed any piece of meat going pasty in less than an hour. That answer that question or no? Little bit.