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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave on your host of cooking issues coming to you live on air jordan network every Tuesday at roughly what roughly like what like 1212 1245 One o'clock Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn calling all of your questions today, by the way, meet related questions. We have a special need presentation and don't meal related presentation. Call in all of your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 joined, as usual with Anastasia the hammer, Lopez, how you doing good. Has your week been good? So a little later on your sister you want to tell your sister my sister's calling in at 1230 She says she and so Nastasia for those of you that are regular listeners to the program. I bought her for her birthday, a crock pot and a copy of dump meals. That's right. Dump dump meals and and so in the Stasi camp, she's like she she's like you know what, Dave? I just can't be bothered.

Now my sister has a normal sized a nice normal sized kitchen. I only have bought you a miniature crock pot. But on my coffee machine I only have one surface for anything. So anyway, you can make

coffee in a crock pot, but I wouldn't recommend it. Oh, and I wouldn't recommend so anyway, so go ahead anyway, so

she's been making meals for the past four days.

So she's like, like this and dinner. And Adelina. Right.

We'll say natty

natty Lopez is the cooking issues don't meal correspondent. So she's going to be calling now. Anastasia you said that your that your sister doesn't necessarily have any He's sort of she's not in the food business now

and she's 22 Yeah, but

my point my point and eating cafeteria food, by the way, she's got a boyfriend you free shows out there got a boyfriend, but it's really cafeteria food. You say your age. It's like, you know

what? No, I'm saying she's so young. Like she's only been she's only been out of college for a month.

Anyways, point being she has no knowledge. But I'm not going to like hopefully she's not listening to this and like get highly doubt good, even though she's gonna call in. She's at work. What is she working? Her first so we're gonna get her fired from her first job out of college by having her call in and talk about don't know. Sweet, sweet joined in the booth with remember we're going with Dave ID supposed to meet Dave How you doing? Good. How you doing? Doing? All right. You have a good week.

Very good week. Excited for some meat talk.

Yeah, let me talk. So our special guests for today.

What was that? Oh, yeah,

that's right. They're the engineering Yeah. So our special guest today is Raphael from enlightenment wines. Now enlightenment wines, say hello. Hi. Hey. So enlightenment wines. When he told a little bit about it's actually you have a tasting room here in Bushwick. But that's not where the actual production happens, right?

Well, it will. I've been making the meats upstate for the last almost 10 years. And now we just opened up production space out off the Jefferson now. So we have a tasting room. And we have a beautiful facility for making wine. Right now, I

did not know this because I'm stupid. The technical term for a like a meat maker is amazing. Amazing. So you are a maser.

Right? It's, it's, it's helpful. That way. You don't have to tell people. You make wine because when you say that they think of grape wine and that's not really what I do. So and also it's it's, you know, when you're a meat maker, you're also an herbalist. You're also a forger, you there's a lot to it. That's not just in the production space, in the same way that the winemaker often grows the grapes, but you know, they're not necessarily thought of as farmers. So a meat maker has a similar kind of broader activity.

You ever have this happened to you? We make meat. So you are in maser so therefore, by the way, Twitter handle is and when Mazur at NY maser writer, you're

right, which, by the way, I've used about once, and I think it was to contact you. Oh, no. Well, I'll

start stalking buddy. Now, especially now you have to teach me how to use it seems

very popular.

Well, I don't know. I'm not necessarily the best at it. You got to find like, who's a Twitter maniac? Anastasia? You're not we know. Yeah, we're like social media dunces. Anyway, the point being that this is what what happened me for the past month, right? So you read all these articles from roughly correct me if I'm wrong, roughly like four, three to four years ago. So you're looking at like, between 2012 and 2014. Everyone says the meats come into meats coming. And you have an occasional bottle of mead, usually by one of the larger producers in some of the wine stores. And then when I finally get around to saying, Okay, now that me that I had when I was, you know, young in my 20s was garbage garbage bad. You know, I mean, like, in my opinion, I mean, maybe it's the way they wanted it, maybe they wanted it to taste like it had all sorts of other weird fermentations going on in it and oxidized and messed up and like does not right, and like not fermented out. And I think people are going for too much alcohol. But anyway, the me my meat experiences have not been the best. And like, a couple of months ago, I was like, This is ridiculous. It's one of the oldest beverages known. Right? Yeah, people drank it and drink it for since time, literally, since time immemorial. Right, and also by pretty much every human culture on earth. Right. Anyone that had access to honey, yeah, they figured out some way to make meat. So it's the the short answer is it's got to be good. That's it has to be like there's literally there's no way that it can't be good, something with that kind of a history to it, that it's just the ones that I've had recently are bad. And then, you know, I ran into the problem over the past couple of months that now I think a lot of wine stores that maybe started carrying, because I went to some of the places that were on some of those articles from the from the meat explosion of a couple years ago. And a lot of them just aren't carrying anymore. So you want to talk about the current state of meat and like trying to get it carried in wine stores and price points and problems. And

yeah, there's I mean, there's a lot to talk about, I think. Well, I mean, part of part of the light mint wines project is that it's largely self taught, meaning that you know, I wasn't, I didn't apprentice in a winery, or I didn't grow up as a craft brewer or anything like that, and then decide to make meat. And that's partially because I wanted to start from scratch and, and really with very few tools, right, so I did it without electricity practically for five or six years, partially to get back to understanding how it was really made initially. And now you know, whenever I started making this stuff in 2000, right, so I've been doing it for a while. Now that I look back and I see the growth of meat and who Who's making it and why it's not always been made properly? I think it's pretty obvious. Part of the problem is, first of all, you got to think of the people with the resources to make it right. So they're typically brewers, right? So when you make mead, there's, you know, the equipment involves, right if you if you come at it with a brewing mentality, you've there's a bad side to it, which is that it's sterile, you're heating things, you're filtering them, you're doing all this very, you know, brewing is basically pretty high tech, compared to winemaking. That's bad. It's good because brewers are used to sort of mixing things together and making alcohol out of it. But that first part of the process, especially brewers who are used to, from the last 10 years of trying to make increasingly alcoholic beers increasingly hopped beers, right? That's the American way, right? So you end up with a very high alcohol wine, which is typically sweet, pretty undrinkable. On the other hand, that people with the real resources and the knowledge base to make good Mead which are natural winemakers, right, which are people who are used to barrels, this stuff isn't sterile. It's very low tech, it's very takes a long time, all that kind of stuff. And are used to the fact that every year is going to be different, that there's vintages. They're not trying to produce a Campbell's soup can write that in that world, in the mentality of natural winemakers. A lot of the things that are fundamental to making Mead which is adding herbs, adding fruits, mixing things together. Specifically adjusting the sugar at the beginning, right, you know, you can decide how much money you want to start with. At the end of the day, you mix water and you can dilute it right, those things are anathema to natural winemakers. So the for them and I'm speaking very generally here. It's a big leap to get into winemaking. So what that's done is left a real hole for for, for the meat industry to have someone sort of step in who's using natural winemaking practices, but applying it to honey wine and kind of fruit wines. You know, and you could say the same thing about food wines also. I mean, if you go upstate, there's lots of wineries that will sell you you know like a dandelion wine, which is like a sugar wine where they waved and aligns over it I think or something and you can't taste anything or like a really sweet like cranberry wine. And there's

nothing actually fermentable and dandelions anyway. Really, it's just a flavor of color thing, right? I mean, you have to add sugar from something else. Anywho. Right, right, exactly. So here's it. Here's our days. Always want to have a good day and landline. I told the story, I think a couple weeks, I don't know, months ago, my grandpa made a dandelion wine who's really proud of it. And I was really young and such a dick that I was like doing alone wine is like with some sort of like weird hick Pennsylvania thing you're making me and

it'd be right actually, because dandelion wines this is what's actually considered like a country wine, right? A farmer's wine. So the the history of the dandelion wine is really amazing. And if you look into it, it's really you'll figure and find this in herbalism books, right? So, like most alcohol made for the first half of humanity, it wasn't really to get you drunk it was to preserve plants, it was to preserve medicinal qualities of plants. So New England farmers, for example, when they come to New England, right, and they're trying to grow stuff. And you know, they're, for the most part, don't know what they're doing. And they don't have any citrus and they all have scurvy. Everyone in New England has scurvy for like 100 years between, you know, January and June. Pretty much right?

Because Is that true? Is that actually true? Yeah.

Because if you're if you if you do subsistence agriculture, what and you don't have access to and you're not making sauerkraut, right, which many of them like they weren't German, if they're English or something, they're not making sauerkraut. There's just so little vitamin C in the system that you know, they're eating like grass and stuff in the spring. And so if you have a dandelion wine, which dandelions are incredibly packed with iron, and vitamin C, and all these kinds of things, and it's preserved, the tradition of dandelion wine is that in the early spring, kind of right, when you start seeing the dandelions, you take a shot of it after lunch or something, it's a tonic. It's not something you'd like, sit around with a snifter. It's a tonic, it's really medicine. So and had all these cure all qualities for it, but you know, really, if you look at it, it's probably just simply that there. It's like, you know, when you have low levels of scurvy, you start having like, you know, vitamin C deficiency you have like, you get sick get colds and

stuff scurvy. Like but like a advanced scurvy says he would like it. Because it's like, it destroys the connective tissues of your body so your t fall out your old good yellow.

Yeah, you know, it's like a tan with the wrong color. Sweet. Yeah, so anyway, it's good business. You can try some of it.

I would love to, by the way, what's what's the what now is this a meat base with dandelion in it or this?

You know, I usually end with this but because it's the most bitter, it's the most complicated like Anastasia. There there's, we can we can start you can start with this. This is apertivo. Now to make this you have to actually pick up a shitload of flowers right? You can't Eat. So you know and you have about a week to do it in right so the bloom for dandelions is tiny. Like they kind of grow all year but they're really only around for like a week in a big amount that makes it efficient so as the acidity from it strictly because you let a little acidic stuff happen to it or is it yeah i mean you know, honey wine you have like people think that Mead is going to be like a single honey Mead right like it No thank you. It's makes it's a great spritz. They use it a PDT for one or two other drinks all

those weasels are always on top of everything what's a lot oppressiveness weasels their weasel? Do you distribute? Sale?

I don't you have to get it from us.

Also, they're doing it illegally. We have a license, we have a license to distribute. Yeah, but

from winery so I can tell you. Really? Yeah, the strength. And actually one of the brilliant things about our tasting room is that because we're the first people in New York really to really, I think take advantage of this. So we've got a farm winery license. So in exchange for the restriction of using New York State ingredients, we are allowed the privilege of be of opening a bar, next door full full liquor bar, you know, we can have whatever we want, we can serve whatever we want. But you can go there, you can have a drink. And if you want, you can buy our bottles right now right to go. So you can like have glass of mead, you can go out, you can you can have a glass of beer for that matter, or any number of cocktails that we make with this stuff. But the nice thing is you can buy the bottles right there and go home with them.

So what's the what's the liquid base? What's the sugar?

It's honey, okay, right? So I can feel some of that that floral hit, you're gonna smell the honey more than you're gonna taste it. How

do you get the how do you get the the acid? Is it just from letting it like a multi floral

thing? Right? Well, so for so in typically in, in a dandelion wine, you'd actually use a lemon juice. So you know, in, in general, the honey wines I was gonna say was that like, it's actually very hard to make a meal just from the honey in the water. It doesn't have the tannins, it doesn't have the acids, right doesn't have the structure.

So it doesn't ferment very well, right? Doesn't it stick?

Well, if you start with a really heavy ABV, and you're trying to make 20% Yeah, you're gonna have our time, but I don't typically have that. But it's if you again, if you're using processed honey, which I don't, there's almost no nutrients in it. So, you know, I'm using unfiltered like raw honey. It's got pollen in it. It's got the parts in it. I actually

don't like dump urea and like beer makers do right? No, no, but sometimes that stuff is

food. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of I mean, that's a whole other like yeast nutrients is a whole nother thing. But you know, typically you either need to bring a fruit into it to bring the acid in the tannins. Are you going to bring some kind of herbs in it to bring the tannins up? The traditional recipe for Dandelion Wine requires the lemon lemon juice, which I'm not allowed to use until we can start figuring out how to get the lemons out of out of the greenhouse in neurosurgery my friend. Right, exactly. So there is I discovered in the park in the cemetery, there is a New England near like, orange that will go through the winter. It's this tiny little, it's called a trifoliate. Orange Yeah, and grow here. They do. They're used as rootstock for other things. Sometimes they grow out and you can see them they're like nasty, full forms. It's like full thorns and these little tiny golf ball signs oranges that have no juice. But there's there's acid in there we're working with that I can use sumac

to max delicious, very highly colored. You take away the dandelion, I mean I love sumac. I use sumac all the time, and it's easy as hell to forage in New York. Yeah, so

this has sumac in it we can try that one day

I love this thing about sumac it's just so pleasing. Have you had to pick it and take all the hair is off? Yes. Oh well you don't take the hair I'm typically making like like sodas and cocktails so I don't ever it doesn't sit a long time so I just did basically a quick boil steep strain spin off like don't nuclear How do you avoid I've had a lot of trouble sumac enough that like we had a fight this summer and we're not we're not hanging out this year. Because it was just I was like killing myself because I couldn't get the okay so I would like multiple wash rewash to the same thing over and over again and then but if I cooked it I would get this sort of green vegetal flavor which I didn't like yeah, you have to rip out the center's Yeah, yeah, it's like unbelievably tough to get people if you ever never pick first of all the reason su Max not popular it's incredibly delicious is because people are Dominus they're not You're not dumb. I'm not calling you dumb. But like people associate sumac with poison sumac right they Staghorn sumac, which is the one that I have growing near me and there's a couple other different kinds of varieties. So it's super variable, right. So flavor wise. Yeah.

So when I forge for it, I have to go bush to Bush and taste them and sometimes they don't taste like anything. I found some stuff out in Montauk that had so much acid on it. They were wet from the humidity and white like white like cream on them

but hairy

you know it was like they were literally citric acid crystals on the outside it was like kind of like a marijuana like wet dream but it was on sumac.

sumac yeah sumac when you harvest it there's some some other ones some hairier ones but when you the thing is it looks nice and friendly and pretty but when you start picking apart you get this weird greasy feeling on your hands I don't know what that's from and then inside is all this like nasty business.

Right which could have been like bugs, whatever and then a little CD thing I could have does have Yeah, definitely no, I mean it's, it's, it's, it's great if you want to make a cocktail you wanna make a punch. For me. The you know, when you talk about forging something you're talking about like can I get 50 gallons of it or not, you know and so part of

what's very strong it's very strong acid you know where you can make a good amount with let's say you were to get like a laundry bag full of stuff which is a pain in the ass I'm not gonna show you the laundry but that's that's a quite a bit of sumac as an adjunct not

so this is what I used it for this year. I'm gonna go back to hibiscus for it. Because I like it's a little richer of an acid. And I did

a I did a three flavor. Soda once it was all red. It was rose hip, all y'all New York, Rose, hip, hibiscus and sumac. Bass can't give up sumac says love it so much. Oh, listen to that. That's anastasius favorite noise in the whole world.

This is, this is the night eyes. This is we blew when we opened about a week ago. And we Oh, congratulations. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And we just blew through this stuff. Because we start selling it by the bottle, and people just hanging out with it. And

it's just Crumped out with it's gone. So what's the ABV on this sucker? Like 12. So you're starting with, see if I can do my calculation somewhere around 20 breaks or something like that.

For I don't know, it's, I have a funny story. So I don't use bricks. I use I use a hydrometer. And I probably should use a bricks. But it's kind of like when I was a kid, like my dad went out and bought us all like hockey sticks for because we had a frozen pond. And I didn't know anything about hockey. So we just all got really sticks. What he didn't know is he bought the whole family left handed sticks. So I learned left handed. And that's just how I play hockey. Now if I play hockey, so I use a hydrometer. For this. If you don't know what a hydrometer is, you should it's kind of this miracle tool. So like, it measures the density of liquid. And it looks like a thermometer and as a as a liquid is more thin it sort of sinks. And then as it becomes more thick, because of the sugar, it goes up costs about $7. The next best tool you can use to measure like the alcohol or sugar content in your liquid cost like $5,000. Right? There's like really literally nothing in between that is useful at all. So I am a huge fan of these kinds of these very simple tools that are very low tech, you can make a hydrometer. And actually, I learned recently that in the old days, you know, do you know this? What the old? I don't know about it. Do you know what the old hydrometer was? Not what? An egg? Well, I know and I measure salt brines with eggs. Yeah, so they would use an egg. And so I've never heard of people using it for liquor though. Yeah, no. Well, I mean, it's not good for alcohol, but it's good for one thing, which is measuring the sugar content of the initial initial eating thing, and they would talk about the circle that the egg made, like whether it was like a half dollar. I mean, it's English, right? So they use pence or whatever, but scepters Yeah,

that's yeah, let's see. I'm old school refractometer guy Hunter was I

just discovered that thing. It's amazing. What's nice about it is it just takes like a drop. And you can walk around

with us one freaking dry. Yeah, it's really, you know what I used to hate filling tubes up with stuff. And in Florida.

You're right. No, no, you're totally right. So the wreck reflectometer is really cool.

Problem is when you're switching back and forth, people who buy refractometers especially if they don't think about it, they don't think about what's actually measuring. See, everyone is using a hydrometer they know they're really they're just measuring the density. And so when but what if there's like stuff in there, that sort of thing, right? So like, you know what, you know, right? If like any kind of any brew or wine calculator, you can know, your initial, your initial gravity and you assume that almost all of that initial extra gravity is due to sugars, right? And then and then when it's went from it's out, you do the calculation, you do bang, but refractometers don't work that way. You know what I mean? Now there are people that have calculated final gravity so by the way, there's your initial or you know, original gravity and then your what do they call the finished one that F and wherever and so you take these two numbers and the second gravity is really a bull crap number right and because let's say it comes out at you know, one which 000 which is theoretically the density of water what that really means is you have some alcohol and some sugar but it's like no, no five, yeah, yeah. Because you want more Yeah, you want more alcohol and obviously, it's but but my point being is that people have tables where they know what your initial amount of sugar is. And then by reading the final gravity of it, you can figure it out the problems refractometers aren't measured that way. So ref refractometer is literally looking and and the responses for sugar versus alcohol. I don't know how linear They are over there. range you're checking so literally you have to have someone who just takes a brix which is his particular scale, right measuring refraction because all it's measuring is light bending and then you have that someone calibrate the the final the final alcohol reading based on a particular OG and that just you just have to pray it's linear in that range and if it is you can use it you know what I mean? And then

there's there's also some weird relationship between the two that's not linear now I just have to tabulate why, like, I just, you know, kind of stick with my thing and kind of know, I mean, to be honest, and it's always good advice to stick with your ears and also your tongue is also your best weapon right? I mean, that's the you can taste the sugar and unbelievably tiny amounts and so at the end of the ferment, i i The hydrometer is like gets less and less useful and then you start tasting it I just want to make sure it's not stuck before you take it right so like this guy, right? So this is a sparkling wine, it's not carbonated. This is made like a pet now you know there's still yeast in the bottom it's you know, you basically ferment out dry then you add a little bit of honey or sugar back in and you continue the fermentation in the bottle if I was really smart or I was like some old French guy have been doing this for 500 years like I would just bottle it when I knew it had the right amount of sugar in it but because I don't have access to either that like historical tradition of like really knowing that very you know when you make the same wine every year you can kind of just taste it but for me I have to go dry and then go back for the secondary eyelids

we were going to talk about this particular wine and second we got to call her on the arrow is it is it a Mead related call or do we got what kind of questions we got caller you're on the air Hi Dave. Hey

is this my sister? Hello Hi Oh hi no

no hey you're on the air so this is going to be a dump meal it was worth taking a meal break you

told me what a dump and your listeners I guess what your dump meal is and I hope it something not what I'm thinking it is well

it all as I like to say all meals end up as don't meals. But the so so the Stasi you want to ascribe the dump meal you want that he described the dump meal.

It's well Natty. Describe what you've been making.

Okay, so I did four different meals with a crock pot and I basically just threw a bunch of stuff in that's the recipe told me to

it's basically go to the local Circle K buy some stuff and dump it into a crock pot walk away from it come back now that's what it

sounds like the winemaking class I want to teach where we go to the dollar store and we come back and we make alcohol out of that stuff you just dump I want to dump it in the thing come back in two months.

Okay, say stay away from Dollar Store bacon just stay away from their bacon especially in your wines but yeah, Dollar Store mead making I think I would pay for that mean $1 So natty What have you been working on? What don't meals have you tried?

So I did an oatmeal which I left in overnight. And that turned out great. In the morning. I did ginger teriyaki chicken.

Okay, how Okay, tell us first of all oatmeal in a crock pot mean, okay, that's going to work. I mean, that's just going to work. That's oatmeal in a crock pot. Now talk to me about the chicken. What? What kind of chicken did they recommend?

They did chicken thighs and chicken legs. Okay, okay. Okay,

so some props wasn't some jerk with boneless, skinless breasts. Alright, so it wasn't inherent chicken dusty. We're making them what?

And then I had to do like a full can of ginger ale and a full bottle of teriyaki sauce and some other things.

Well, this person likes some sugar. They're the full Canada ginger. Let me ask you a question. Did did you have to brown that chicken beforehand? Sorry, did you brown the chicken beforehand?

No, I just put it in there. I just washed it off.

washed it off.

That's our mother's favorite trick.

You washed off the chicken before I put it in the crock pot with with me wash it off. You wash your chicken. Well,

I just wanted to make sure it was clean anyways, then I also did spareribs

wash a chicken

oh you don't wash your chicken what is kind of like slimy stuff on it poop then that's it that means you purchased a crap chicken. The whole thing like sometimes you can wash off if there's like bits of blood and you want to get them up. It's not a frickin fish. You know what I'm saying? We're like, are you ripping the bones out of it? It's a freakin chicken. It's already been dredged through like the hell and gone they've already beaten the crap out of that thing. They put it into fundamentally a giant like washing machine made of rubber to rip every dang feather off of it. It's been completely eviscerated and sprayed down. Anyway okay, well second so so you this the size and stuff they had the skin on? Yeah, but you in no way treated the skin in any shape form kind. You literally threw this thing in with ginger ale and teriyaki sauce. So the dump meal lady's idea of brownie Miskin was to dump teriyaki sauce into it. Am I am I am I on track here.

Maddie, what?

Like this lady's idea of browning the skin The lady who wrote dump meals was to add teriyaki sauce that was in lieu of browning the skin right.

One sec. Hold on.

What you referring to the recipe? This sounds like it's a nightmare waiting to happen. I mean, I don't know. Is there any sort of are you back? Yes. Is there any sort of sauteed onion or garlic anything? What is there any sort of sauteed onion or garlic in with this Don't chicken? Well, there were two

different chicken instances and one of them had onion.

One What about this first one with it with the ginger ale? But no. So let me get this straight. It's just ginger real teriyaki. Washed chicken in a crock pot for like eight hours and nothing else. And that's all Oh, and rice at the bottom. rice at the bottom. And did you add the rice at the very getgo Yeah, so that wasn't overcooked at all then. How was it tell me how what was it delicious? Did you enjoy it? Yes, I did. You did? What was the texture of the rice? Like?

It was really fluffy and nice. It was almost like a risotto.

Oh, oh. You're gonna let your sister say that was almost like a risotto and unstirred crockpot Oh, need

to dry it

Dave. Listen, listen,

listen loading and the teriyaki and the ginger ale right?

What the chicken? No, the

race raisins floating.

The rice is going to stick to the bottom. Well, it's okay. And it's in the crock pot. It's like everything that you you know, Okay,

what about the other chicken that you made a

shredded chicken? That was just with bell

pepper and uncooked bell pepper. That that one in the crock pot. So uncooked bell pepper into with the skin on into a crock pot. Okay, when next

and then I think it was just the chicken breast boneless breast

boneless breast for eight hours. Okay, what liquid did you pour into this? Water? Water and what else? Nothing else. Wow, how was that?

It was good. Oh, and I guess like taco seasoning.

taco seasoning. Let me ask you this. Like when you picked up the chicken if you allow it to cool when you hit it against the table would it actually like fry ugly shatter was it was it like a chicken leather or did it like was the chicken in any sense? Still juicy at all in any way shape? Kind format or what do you had? Did you shred it?

i Yeah, it was easily shreddable These

photos it looked really good. It looks juicy. And

then you put in a taco or what?

Then you put in a taco right? Yeah, yeah. Kick around.

Well, why would you ever use breast me for that? Basically what you're saying it's just like oh, maybe

that didn't work with a spare ribs that had to do Oh my god.

Tell me how to spare ribs. Tell me about this barriers.

can of beer in Well, I

would say what normal can't have what? A whole can of beer. What beer did you choose? What what beer did you choose?

I did like an IPA, but it didn't want to do it. And then I think it was like a whole whole bottle of barbecue sauce too. And it just looked really gross. I didn't want to do it.

But you did it anyway. Or you didn't taste it?

I mean, like I didn't even cook it. It just smelled nauseating.

We held it How old is your sister tiny can see this is the problem with Instagram. What Foods look good? Doesn't always look good. Six sometimes look good. No bad.

Well, you know but the thing is, is that you didn't give the alcohol time to cook off maybe Beer Beer based beer based braises like for instance the famous like Guinness beef that the Irish folk make is good but not at the get go. You have to Yeah, that actually does have to cook quite a long time but the lack the lack of browning disturbs me like in these recipes. It's like I don't know anyway, so listen, are you going to continue going to make some more dump meal? You're gonna make some more dump meal for us you're going to continue to be our dump meal correspondent yeah all right. People people calling your questions for like you know eventually or writing your questions for natty and her and her dumped meals. Yeah, anything else to add about these meals? It really says don't brown these freaking things before you throw them into the freaking crock pot. For real What about the onions you throw into this other thing? Did it brown the freaking onions beforehand? She's gone.

Oh, she's gonna she's gone.

Couldn't take couldn't take the abuse. She's not used to it like like you are.

Brown in question three times. I can't believe. Dun

dun who does that chatroom

says no browning and don't meals. No browning and don't meals. Think there's a joke in there somewhere.

All right. So let's talk about okay, name this one that we just drank that you're almost sold out of anyway. Kind of a little more or less this? Yeah. I mean, we've got three more to go through. So Anastasia will I'm sure you can do like this. And you can keep it really Anastasia hates almost everything. And I guarantee you no, I know you like it because it's got some of the same notes that orange wine has in it right? It's Oh,

well, let me tell you something else. You're usually asked the question. I actually did a lecture about this call. Why you don't drink meat? Right? Okay. And you know, the initial question is like, meat is the fastest growing segment of the alcohol market. Right? So that's great for our investors and us, you know, we're like, here we go, let's do it. Right. But when we look for allies, and it's very different than the craft beer movement, which I think, you know, kind of came up together, because there's so much good craft beer that people want to make. And there's definitely good meat makers out there. And I can recommend some, but part of it is the branding. You know, my, I operated like a kind of a club for about five or six years, that was most of my meat went to people signed up on the email list, so I got to meet them, I knew who them they were. One of the nice things about this product is that it's got a really nice gender balance. Men and women tend to like it equally, which makers and makers are just triggers, triggers. It's got a broad age range, it's got a good gender balance, which isn't necessarily true for beer and hard liquor. Right. And one of the problems is, is that the the, the branding for a lot of need is like, based on this like really inaccurate, mythical Viking axes, the super macho stuff, super hetero, super macho. And I think it really turns off a lot of women who would normally actually like the product. So I think that would be the third. The third kind of leg of the stool of like, not how not to make me.

What are your What are your thoughts on the Upper East Side of Manhattan?

I've been there. Have you? Like, have you ever like so like,

no offense up?

We went we both went to school up there. I

don't know what I up or what I was on the Upper West Side. Yeah, that's right. Yes. We'd like the thing about the upper like, no offense, I'm gonna say 16 It's like a generalization but a lot of people know precise like, honey so sweet. Honey certif we right. So Right. I don't want anything with honey. It's sweet. You know? times at events that you heard people say stuff like that team assessor

bourbon. sugar and honey.

No, you're right. No, you're right. Look, grape wine is made from sweet grapes. Rice wine is made from sweet rice, honey, wine is made l alcohol starts out sweet. Bingo. And so the you know, our biggest challenge is just education. You know, we just have to, that's why we make dry dry wines. We tell people listen to this isn't going to be sweet. It's one of the first things we we talk about. It's why we named the tasting room honeys, because we want to like bring, we didn't want to hide that we want to be forward about that. It's like this is a honey based alcohol. But honey has a lot going for this non sugar, you know, it's got this great, okay, it has all this different different variability. So try this one. This is this is like what, you know, for lack of a better word, this straight white meat, right? You know, like we're trying to work to talk about, you know, part of what's exciting about this is we get to create the vocabulary for this product class, right? You know, we're trying to position ourselves as making the best meat in the country. So that gives us a position to say like, what is it? How do we talk about it? What does it look like? What kind of glasses do you put it in all that stuff? It's really exciting. Big space, big, big open space. What I have not been able to do is figure out what how to talk about the meat that we make. That's just the Honey Why? Because I don't want to say it straight because that's got issues and I don't want to definitely don't want to call it white. Right? Because it's you know, compared to what? So, but this is an I don't want to say it's plain because it's not

like is the short name of meats.

This is the shard navy. Guys I got to say to people listen.

Who is Anastasia? What do you drink shotty UPS remember that like the

short thing? Okay, so this isn't the bottle we haven't bought this is on draft right now at the at honeys. So we haven't bottled it yet. I'm gonna go upstate and bottle it like in about a week. But this is basically what we're serving on draft