Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves, we're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world, both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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the 2% right over here, though page. Jenna.

I didn't know you shopped here.

I anything to support local food know what I mean? I definitely

do, though. That's not the only thing you do in the name of good eats obviously. Well, true.

I also host eating matters every Wednesday at 5pm where we talk about food policy and how it impacts all of us. Be sure to tune in.

Oh yeah. Gotta get the plug in there. I

get it. Yep. Um, hashtag shameless.

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Well, yeah, make a donation to heritage Radio Network, the world's Pioneer Food radio station.

That's right. And I got to call you out in the whole local thing.

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the farm report a taste of the past Japan eats. Those are shows that take you around the country and the world

give you that. So how can listeners give their support?

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of broken news coming to you live on heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like I don't know what is it like 12 teams my dad to like one o'clock you know from a birth pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn join as usual with Anastasia hammer Lopez he was does good. Yeah, everything good. And we got Dave ID in the booth. How you doing? Good. All right, all right. It's it like I was flying home from New Orleans. And it's the only time in my life. I fly home to a place freakin hotter than I was when I'm flying from New Orleans in the middle of summer. I just got back from tales of the cocktail. Tales of the cocktail, which is now I don't know, like 11 years old or something like that. I've been going since I think like year to the year right after Katrina is the first year I went. And originally they started down there because they had no money. Right? And so they want to have it in New Orleans, which is a big cocktail town. But they're like, what time of year does nobody but nobody want to go to New Orleans right now. Like the height of July it's like, you know what the other convention was like like maybe the second year I went down there at the same time swingers. The only other people they're like, like it don't don't matter. Like, you know, I don't guy I've got to take them out somewhere nice. We're all just gonna like, you know meet up afterwards. Yeah, we mean hotel room whoa, whoa anyway so just got back from there I demonstrated the centrifuge to the group of their cats which they call them cocktail apprentices but really they're this group of people you know, that take care of all the behind the house stuff at tails a cocktail. So there's something like I forget what it was or something like 200,000 drinking cups that they they with all the seminars and all the parties and events and stuff like that. So they do all the batching the juicing, the coordination, getting it done. So I demonstrated those guys, I think they liked it. I made some banana Faustino, which was good. And I made a lime cordial. Sorry, I made an orange cordial. So I took you know how you know how I always say orange juice. When you clarify it tastes like Sunny D. Right? And so it's not that useful because it doesn't taste that good. Well, I've been fermenting it at home like I told you maybe the next time I try a bottle if I like it, I'll bring it in and we'll try it on there. Okay, Mister age a little longer thing but so I use it in front of ferment it but then the other thing I do is take the clarified orange juice, I acid adjust it and turn it to a cordial like lime cordial. And unlike lime cordial, you don't have to heat it because it doesn't go off as fast as a lime cordial. So he doesn't have to have that heated taste because a lot of people do like I want my we doing just lime cordial. It doesn't taste like it's fresh was not fresh. You don't it's cordial. It's like a traditional flavor. That's supposed to taste like it's been cooked and you're supposed to like bring it on board a ship and keep yourself from getting scurvy moron does not supposed to taste fresh. Not every freaking drink with citrus in it has to taste like it was made. Like the ingredients were made. 13 seconds ago. That's not the freaking point of the cordial. But anyways, this orange stuff, it lasts a long time. But let me tell you, I don't know if I mentioned my like double acid cordial. I have. What is it then? I know you haven't frickin mentioned. You don't even know what it is. You can't even describe it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah. No, I don't think I have mentioned it. So the point is, is that when you mix when you make lime cordial, typically, it's one to one lime juice and sugar, right? Because like simple syrup, that's what people do. They add peel to it. And then they heat it up to a boil. And then they strain it. And then they bottle it and that's cordial. All right. Now, the inherent problem with that is oh, by the way, is your sister gonna call in today? No, she said she hasn't made anything this past week. Oh, my just to Kealing don't meal just tequila. No, just a key lime pie. You don't make a key lime pie. Now you dumped but it wasn't in. Who the hell makes killing get make key lime pie in a slow cooker. I know. First of all, key lime pie is perhaps the simplest dish on Earth to construct. I mean, please tell me she at least made her own graham cracker crust, Alaska. I mean, for God's sakes did she actually use does she used that? Bottled key lime juice? I'm I'm sure people, people, people. You are better off using regular Persian slash beer slimes than bottled key lime juice. Do you agree with that? And Stasiuk I like key limes. They're a pain to juice though. Hmm. Remember when I bought that miniature juicer in Mexico and I brought it back and I and I did an angry juice and I broke it on day one before we could ever use it at the at the bar. Anyway. Oh, by the way, someone sent us Mead. Oh really? Is I hope it is. The meatery in New Jersey. No advice. They sent that over for you. All right. Well, we're gonna taste it. Maybe we'll crack it open during the break and start tasting and then but wait, what's it called the place? No advice. No advice. I thought Noah enjoyed grapes. And that was the problem where he got naked in his kids had to cover him up. Yeah, I think that's what the name comes from. But this is made from honey, not from grapes. Noah got cranked out and dropped his drawers in front of his kids on account of wine. So they're saying that that they're off of Noah's vise and they're on this meat action. Maybe Noah had more vices than we knew about. Noah had more vices than we knew about is that like that's that's like it's somewhere in the liner notes for for some band that I don't that I don't know. I haven't thought of the name yet. But right is my right or wrong. Someone correct me on my Bible here. Noah got wasted on grape wine chat room, any Bible experts got wasted on grape wine, dropped his drawers. And the kids like looked the other way. So as not to become abominations and like drape stuff over and we're like, Yo, Dad sleep that one off. I believe. That is exactly what happened. That that's that's in the jersey Bible, which someday Anastasia and I are going to do your best sleep that off. You know what I mean? It's like someday we're gonna do it. You know what I'm saying? This Asya and we got a caller go. Yeah. Caller you're on the air. Cool. Are you there? Caller don't think so. Caller Hey,

hey, how's it going, Dave doing? All

right, what's up? Good. I

have a question for you about liquor extracts and aging. So I've been making some extracts using 195 proof, grain alcohol. And the recipes I've looked at, most of them require or recommend that the, excuse me the extract, after adding the simple sugar, the age for a couple of months, in a dark place. I'm wondering why that would be if that's just an old wives tale, or what the case

paid for that? What kind of bottles in?

I'm sorry, you're barely coming in? Oh,

well, there's a couple of things here. One, many, many products are actually photosensitive, it's not just mean very few products have the extreme reaction to light that you know, the humio loans in hops have right where they just go skunky on you. But many, many things are very reactive to UV light. So in general, unless you know that something specifically is light stable, it is a very good idea to store it in the dark.

But it's it seems to be more for some kind of flavor development, or flavor, maturation, or some kind of smoothing of the flavor out over time. After the extract sugar and water have been kind of combined. It's basically a limoncello sort of recipe, except I've made made it with raspberries or basil. And it says, add, you know, after you add your simple syrup, store it for a couple months before drinking,

right? I have Okay, so I've more I have never made this kind of thing with raspberry. But I've dealt with basil quite a lot. And aging, and I can tell you for sure that the day you make it, right, it has one taste the fresh kind of basil taste, and then it does go through a period of it being not, in my opinion, not as good, right, but you know, different and changes. And then after basil in particular stabilizes somewhere between three and six months, I can't pin the exact date because I didn't taste it every day. But and that's at, you know, 40 or 50 proof, you know what I mean? And yeah, and so the, that's for a distillate though not for an infusion, but I'm assuming it's a similar kind of a similar kind of an issue. And it's a it's a myth that high proof, high proof spirits don't age in a bottle. It's complete myth, it it depends. Some high proof spirits don't really age in the bottle. So whiskies tend to stay pretty stable in the bottle. Vodka clearly stays stable in the bottle. gins tend to stay stable in the bottle. But I mean, St. Germain does not stay stable in the bottle. Chartreuse is, you know, stable ish. But if you taste churches that's like, you know, 1520 years old, it's definitely different. And it's not because the recipe is changed. But it's because it's because it's aged. Now the interesting that the thing about it, the thing that looks so as a consumer who goes into making their own, the reason it's not apparent is because, you know, all commercial spirits have been developed to stay stable, so that their customers kind of know what to expect. Right? Right. And so, you know, we're really only exposed to things that have been either stabilized or made stable, which is why a lot of like, you know, vodka flavors, no offense to them, but they all taste fake, because they have to be fake, because the real ones would be horribly unstable if they actually made it for real, you know what I mean? And so like, a lot of the flavors that are used are in liquors are dried, dried herbs are things like citrus peels, things that have like after some initial movement after they're made, and they can usually be held by the companies long enough for that initial movement to happen. They eventually, you know, meld, everything gets along fine, and they're relatively stable. But part of the joy of making something yourself is to make things that are not stable now. Right. Right. One thing one thing I will also say is that a lot of things are delicious. Some things just are wretched, while they're going through their awkward phase. It's like, you know, it's like the Middle School of infusions. But it's, you know, a lot of things taste good kind of all along, but just are different at every step of the way. Usually, you love something when it's fresh, because that's why you made it because it was delicious when it was fresh, right? I mean, that's kind of what happened. Your your palate was geared to making something fresh, especially you're not used to tasting with a mind six or eight months from now because you don't know what's going to happen. Right? So you you like this stuff, it's fresh. And then as it changes, almost invariably, you like it a little bit less as it starts to change, initially, if you really liked it at the get go. And that's when you need to, like, keep in your, in your like in your mind and your in your heart that this stuff might get good again later. I think that that when people write recipes, I think that they make a huge mistakes when they talk about things that need to be aged, with the exception of things that are kind of dangerous until they age out, I think, you know, they know, because they've made it a million times that, you know, they might as well not taste it between now and you know, in a couple of months, when it's when it's ready, the truth of the matter is, when you're learning, you should taste a little bit as you go. So that you can kind of get a feel for kind of what's changing, and then get a feel for what you like and what the stability is, because that's really the only way to, to learn. If you you know, if you if you just put something down and then don't taste it again. And then right, you don't know what's happening.

Now that makes sense. And what I was planning on doing is actually letting it letting this batch age for a couple of months, and taste it as it goes and then make a fresh batch in a couple months from now and then actually be able to taste them side by side, two months old versus a fresh extract in mature So okay, so it's not a it's not an a lifestyle that something's happening to even just a simple syrup and an alcohol extract happening over time.

Yes, some things are pretty dang stable, but a lot of things move. So it's also recipe by recipe and I and I don't know whose recipe you're following. But you know, it's also a habit that you have if let's say you make a lot of infusions. And it's been your experience that these things like move around and aren't really stabilized for, you know, a couple of months, then you just start writing into all of your recipes to do that, whether or not you've actually tested it for that particular item or not, you see what I'm saying. And the same thing, by the way goes for every recipe that cooks, right? Chefs, right? Or even, you know, like, like bloggers anything like this, once you have some experience in your life that leads you to believe, you know that X, Y or Z procedure is what you need to do, then even if you don't maybe even sometimes do it yourself, you just include it in every recipe you ever write, so that nobody comes back. But you can tell people to egg it and there needs to be age, even if you haven't tested I swear like I do this, you know what I mean? It's a it's just a sad fact of the way the world works, that you have to present these complete recipes to people for everything for foods for drinks. And and you have to guard against these kind of attacks or worse, like having someone think that your recipe is bad. And so you include things in recipes that you haven't actually tested on that particular recipe. Or if you have tested you haven't tested in a be where you left that step out. It's just the nature of the beast.

Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much.

I let us know how it works. Doctor later. So back back to this cordial. So yeah, so where we left off was this. If you take 50% Lime juice, right now lime juice is we clarify first, obviously it's 6% acidity, okay. And now you add sugar, you add the equal weight of sugar. Assuming that the lime juice has no sugar in it, which is a little bit of a lie. You have a 5050 Simple syrup that's acidic, right? It's a cordial cordial. Now, what's the inherent problem in that? Since you weren't listening to me? I'll tell you. Right. The problem is that if what you want, when if most, a lot of the drinks that I make have roughly equal amounts of one to one simple syrup, and like lime or lemon juice in it, right one to one, if anything, there's a little more acidity, a little more lime juice or a little more sugar than they're sorry, a little more lime juice, a little more lemon juice than there is simple syrup. Right? Right. Problem is if you if you put a half ounce of that cordial into a drink, it contains the same amount of sugar as a half ounce of, of simple syrup. Right? Does that make sense? Okay, okay. Does it contain the same amount of acid as a half ounce of lime juice? No, no, why? It's more because it's more no because there's more sugar in there the sugar is taking up some of the space. So you have to add some extra acidity in the form of citric and malic acid back to the cordial to get the acidity such that the that it has the actual acidity of lime juice. So what we do is we dope this orange juice normally you have to add 32 grams of citric acid and 20 grams of malic acid to every liter of orange juice to have it have the same acidity as lime, but you have to add a little more to make up for the space that the sugar is taking up and then when you pour an acid adjusted or double adjusted in the case of orange cordial, every half ounce of that stuff is the same as pouring half ounce of simple syrup and a half ounce of like acid like lime juice but If you've only you've added a half ounce ounce less of total liquid get it get it got it good. You know what else? I had a question about New Orleans just deal with the question about New Orleans now. Yep. You didn't do anything interesting. No cooking interesting. Nothing. Nina nada. Did you did you leave the city? You're trapped in a city with this like dead. You couldn't borrow borrow your buddy's car that you paid to fix. Alright, so Steve from Los Angeles is going to New Orleans and he said, I'm going to be in New Orleans this coming weekend. Unfortunately, I'm missing out on tales of the cocktail. Are there any new new The key here is these new bars or restaurants you saw this year that I should check out Steve from Los Angeles? Well, I actually only went to one new restaurant because I only had really I had two dinners there. One was a spirited award where it's not like a normal spirited dinner where it tells a cocktail you go and like the it's paired with like it's not a normal dinner. Right. But the second one I went to was at a new place. Get this. It's I didn't even know he had done this. You know John Besh out in New Orleans. Yeah. So John Besh teamed up with Iran Sanchez, you know, from here, and they have a restaurant called Johnny Sanchez, Johnny Sanchez, and Myles Landrum, who is known as Nick Huang Are you know, one of my favorite interns of all time was at the French culinary he's now at Sambar is where they went to school together and so he's the exec there so I went there it was great. You know what they had that I like, first of all, for some reason in New Orleans, like ever since a Cushaw which is like one of the famous of favorite restaurants that we you know, go to down there down there, like pig ears and like they're big on pig ears and pig parts. So you know, chili kill us right? So these guys instead of using tortillas they do like a pig ear chili kill us. What do you think? I don't know. What do you think that's not a thing? That was good but tuberculous no pig ears. I love pig ears. And I love chili killers so like doing an interpretation like a chili kills interpretation with pig ears. That was good. I enjoyed it. Yeah, that we also had we got some squash blossoms and we were we were we were we were saying how ridiculously you know how squash blossoms here it's like so sad and you go down in Mexico and there's billions and billions of squash blossoms for almost nothing but good very good. So that's the only new place I recommend I can recommend it I didn't get to go to what's it called? Shaya. The was not named after childbirth, which is that place where they make their own Pete everyone goes crazy for I didn't get to go you know what I like? Do you like tourist things? And Stassi that like sometimes sometimes do you know what, like everyone when they go down there there's a place called Amon remember the name of it I go to the central grocery that they make them the Muffaletta that that's the one that all the tourists go to right? And all the locals they're like, You're a jerk. Why are you going to the place that all the tourists go you got to have our muffle at our this that bubble but muffle that is a sandwich they make in New Orleans and it's all about the chopped up olives and and you know pickles and stuff that goes in in that they talked about that with this giant giant huge loaf of bread with necessities on top of it looks like a giant overgrown sesame bond with like, you know the meats and the cheeses and then a chopped up olives olives at bestbus and like pickled stuff on it right? But you know what? Freaking it's good a crap on you. I enjoy it crap on all you haters out there who just because like, you know, since you know, since whenever this has been the place people go, so what? It's still good. You don't I'm saying? You know, I'm saying? Here's another thing I don't know whether you knew this New Orleans, Louisiana is possibly the the like apogee, the height of personal injury lawyer advertising. I turned on. I was waking up in the morning getting dressed. So I turned on the TV. And it was one of these shows where everyone's trying to figure out who the dad is. And nobody knows there's like eight guys up on stage and nobody knows which ones to dad and they have a paternity test and all sorts of screaming and yelling and bouncers and stuff like that. Maury Povich and and the commercials for the personal injuries attorneys are just amazing it's like almost like it's an art form that my favorite there's there's a guy Morris Bart which is the one that that remember it was in the news a while ago that this kid was obsessed with this personal injury attorney and wanted him to come to his birthday party but he wouldn't company sent a life sized cut out of himself and like a pen you know what I mean? So this kid's birthday party but there's a there's a an attorney there named ship forestall who's got like this like Paul polished but bald head and go online and look up chip forestall videos, he's hired all of these local New Louisiana musicians to sing various renditions of chip force, Chip forestall, he's a man of integrity, and he wants to be your attorney. He knows the law ship forestall takes care of it all personal injuries, big or small, but he do it. They do it in Dixieland jazz. There's a rap one that's not in the line yet because that's what I saw down there. There's like, there's like some sort Have like Mardi Gras version they have like they have a gospel version of chick forestall takes care of it all with like real musicians. It's a Craziest thing. Like I went down there thinking that Selena and Barnes was kind of the height of personal injury attorney advertisement because Anastasia and I, to get an idea of what our actual life is like, we never discussed anything serious. We just will sit down. silence for like an hour or so like staring into the distance with dead eyes. And then all of a sudden, we'll just start singing the Selena and Barnstone. Selena and Barnes right. Injury Attorneys, right. Give me some 800 What 777-770-8888 At? Yeah, so let's sing it all late. Anyway. So anyway, so I feel bad yet another thing that New York, you think you're the best at something and you go somewhere else? And it turns out that we are mere infants, children, like weaklings, when it comes to personal injury lawyer advertisement. And I found out I think why in, in New Orleans, I looked it up, I was so intrigued by it, I looked it up. And when it turns out that in New Orleans, and if parishes down there in Louisiana, the judges that are hearing these cases are elected. Right, right. So they need to have campaign and get this. Unlike any other state in the union. The threshold for a jury trial for this stuff is $50,000. So any case that's below $50,000, let's say $49,999. People like chip forestall get to go directly in front of a judge who they're allowed to contribute to their campaigns regularly, and they need to get elected and be like, hey, you'll judge why don't we settle this for like, 4995? You know what I mean? Like 49k, then, you know, I'll give you some money. We'll all get out of here. This guy will get his money. Boom. Hence, you have such awesome advertisements. I think it's worth it. Anyway, a little bit a little bit of legal aside for a break where you want to take a break. We'll drink some meat and we'll come back with more cooking issues. Yeah, we gotta call her then to call her I'll take the caller and then we'll go to our caller. You're on the air.

Hi. Shane, here I'm calling from from Dublin, Ireland. Oh, hey,

good. Good to hear from you. How's it going over there? Great.

It says gray and cloudy as usual.

My favorite. I love that. Yeah, green cloudy man. I wish I could live in a place it was always gray and cloudy.

Listen, I love the show. You guys are great. I've learned a lot.

Thanks. Wait, what do you what do you got for us? What do you what do you we call in about?

I'm I'm trying I'm looking at restaurants, equipment. And I'm doing a lot of low temperature cooking. And I want to get some equipment in I can't for searing for searing meats and vegetables. And I can't use charcoal because fire restrictions and it's difficult. I just wanted to know if you have any recommendations for further equipment, that would be good. Like cast iron pan is too small for my for the volume I'll be doing so. Like I looked at induction planches and things like this. And I don't know, if you have any recommendations for good searing equipment that's not charcoal. It's hard.

So are you allowed to have an I don't know what the economics are there. But do you have natural gas or not even natural gas?

I might have natural gas. I'm trying to get the lines installed. So I might and I might not. I'm interested in both natural gas and electric.

Okay, so the deal is, anytime you're going to do like heavy searing work on low temperature no matter what the source of the heat is, you're going to make a crap ton of smoke. And so you're going to need like regardless of what the regulations are anything else you're going to need really good ventilation. So that's just a given. I'm just going to stipulate that right there. Okay. The it's it's hard so like in New York, where now like they allow certain things It didn't used to what everyone used to do in the trade it back in the day was they would have these, these gas, these gas grills situations, right? And then they would just the manufacturers knew you would do this, he would just throw wood on top of the gas and just get it completely roaring. But then whenever obviously, someone's coming in to inspect it's just a gas. It's just gas, you know what I mean? And you would throw on wood in quotes for smoking, you know what I mean? And then that would, that's how you kind of get around it those guys with Jack the heat that way. A lot in terms of your mean if you can get get gas out and you're going to do a lot of this work. I would invest in like a deck boiler. And the deck boilers are just like a salamander, but they're stacked like it's like it's like three salamanders stacked together. And it's much more than three times as powerful because if you've ever used a salamander, you just have that sweet spot right in the middle and then it kind of radiates out Whereas like the deck boiler, you have a giant sweet spot and you can they really scream, they really scream. And so I would recommend something like that. But that's only going to work kind of in an over fired situation. So if you're looking to finish you know, and you want to go electric, I don't have a lot of experience doing hardcore searing on, I've never used for instance, and induction plancha, I've never used it. And so I can't really, I can't really speak to it, I'd say that think a lot about what you're any electric thing that you use, I've never used and I've used some of them, I've never used an electric broiler that was worth spit, you know what I mean? They're just there's not enough, there's not enough power output. I mean, the good news about using induction is it's so efficient in terms of heat delivery to the to the pan, or the or the punch or the griddle, if it's specifically built that way. That, you know, even though you only have a certain amount of power, you can suck out of the wall, it's providing a lot of that power to actually to heat the food item that you're that you're talking about. Now, that when you're doing low temperature cooking, as I'm sure you're aware, one of the main issues on the finish is that unlike a traditional pan sear that you do before, before you're cooking, or if you're going to pan sear, and then finish in the oven traditional style. The meat when you put it in is pretty or whatever it is, is pretty floppy, and can make good contact with the surface of the pan and or the griddle or the whatever. And what that means is you get a nice even even sear off on the thing, and it makes a lot of smoke. However, if you're doing a post sear, and you put that same piece of meat onto a griddle, then you're going to have very dark marks exactly where you're touching the pan. But unless you have a pretty hardcore weight on it, right, you're not going to have an even an even Syrah closet. So how do we get around that we paint a lot of oil on the on the meat, and we try to hope that there's some sort of connection between, you know, bridging the oil to the meat, but then as soon as you do that, you now have a lot lot more smoke than you did back back in back in the day back before you know, back, you know, old style. So you can't really you can get it to work that way. But you can't really win that way. And what happens is, is if you're sitting there in kitchen, and you have only screaming pans, you're constantly having to wipe it out. Because just the amount of oil that you have to put on is just, you know, kind of intense. Now some people, you know, like we used to when we're doing duck breasts and we're cooking low temp, we made very, very sure that when we put them in the bag, we flattened it all out so that then when we took the duck breast and put it in the pan afterwards to do the crisp up on the skin, that it was all going to be in contact and it would render right but if you don't, you're pretty much hosed. Right, some pieces of some products. And I know that you know, people get mad at me about it, sometimes, sometimes the best way to do so deep fry it, you know, if you deep fry it, you get like instant sear all the way around. And the problem with it is is it nobody notices, as long as your oil is impeccable. But when you do a fry finish on something and like a steak and the oil is even a little bit over, it's like it gets kind of it gets kind of ugly because they start to taste that oil on the outside. If If not, then as soon as you pull it out of the fryer, if the oil is good, you have you know, someone wrapped a towel around it, get the excess fat, you know, grease off the outside. And by the time you cut it, no one ever knows it's been in oil, they just want to know why the crust is so nice that is particularly useful on things like lamb racks, which are very hard to post finish and hard to get a nice crust on the outside without over cooking using low temperature kind of techniques. So in my mind, things like lamb racks, big bone in pieces like that work extremely well in the deep fryer, but you just have to mean like people don't like to think about it. And also they don't like you have to make sure that your oil is impeccable. So those are kind of what what I'd use. There's no question that an induction induction range can get cast iron pans hot enough. The problem with the cast iron pan on the induction range is and I think we talked about this last week or the week before, it's you really have to not like have it screaming right away because you'll notice on most induction things that you that you use mean maybe the commercial ones, I haven't checked their burner pattern, but the burner pattern on inductions is relatively small. And so they tend to work well on things that have a big fast heat conductive surface so like the aluminum sandwich pans that have like the slug in them that the induction were With the stainless of the induction works with, and then they have an aluminum, big billet, and that aluminum spreads the heat out relatively quickly. So you don't get major major hotspots. With the induction with it with cast iron, you're going to tend to heat the local area and it's going to take longer for it to be totally even now, that point is moot if you have it on the induction thing for like five minutes and heating up, but then you know, you have something that's screaming hot all the time, and unless you're going to chill it in between or let it cool down in between orders, which isn't really feasible in like a heavy environment, like when you're going to get an order and you don't necessarily want to have to keep your pan going up and down and up and down. So, you know most people want like if they're having a griddle, they want a high heat griddle, you know that or a plunger that's running now you know the advantage there. You know, the reason plushies are so good as they can stay really hot, but remember blotches drain the grease down and out. So you know a quick, you know, you take your your your spatula and you scrape off the extra grease and now you're not smoking up your whole kitchen with the extra grease from before while you're waiting for the next order to come in. But that said planches aren't designed for searing meats that have already been cooked. You can like a little squeezy bottle of oil. So you take a little squeezy bottle of oil, and then, you know, hit it and it can it can work. But you just have to get some practice. If you have a buddy that has one, I would definitely go to use it before you invest in it to make sure it fits your cooking style. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. So just quickly then on. I mean, I see a lot a lot of planches and units on giving different surface temperatures, like 230 degrees, this is Celsius and 250 degrees. And for conduction heat source. Do you know what kind of what kind of temperature I'd be looking for for hosts, I'll do a pre series to help the unevenness of the meat issues, right, hopefully, and I'll do a post here.

I did. So on the Cooking issues blog, I think it's there, I might not have put that picture up. And I'll go look at it again, I once did a test, where I was actually testing the SIRT the temperature of the cast iron during the thing to look at what this is on standard old cast iron pan, you know, like maybe 5060 years old, trying to figure out like what the best initial temperature is. Greg blonder, actually who called into the show his his blog with, you know, he did a test. And he has I think I think with me head gold when when he was on the show, you know, he did a test with a probe underneath showing that in most cases, the temperature drops very quickly right at the surface. You know, because obviously, it has to boil water off. And so, you know, he seems to think his he seems to think it doesn't matter if that you get that that hot. My the research that I did shows that an initial very high heat in the pan does help. So I was getting stuff up into the range of like 500 and or something which is, which is C 400. Is 360 is 200. Right, so I was getting, I was probably getting up to like get to probably getting up in closer to what were you saying like 262? What are you saying?

They were it's it ranges from 220 to maybe 250? Is the ones I've seen?

Yeah, I mean, I never the ability to go hotter is always better, because you can always turn it down. Right. But, you know, it was I had to wait until these things got very, very hot before I started seeing diminishing returns, I mean, eventually you get, you know, obviously what's called the Leidenfrost effect. And it takes a you know a little longer for even to know that it's searing, right, that's like I can stick my hand in liquid nitrogen and pull it out because because of vapor forms, but in actuality what tends to happen is, is that that your plancha is a slug of metal, you put the meat down on it, and that you get it shows it right there eventually, and then you have to wait for the heat to come back in order to get up to its temperature. So they're they're storing heat a little bit. I know some people have moved to very, very thin planches, which work almost, I guess, like like a Mexican Komal. And those things don't store as much energy. And so then they're relying a lot more on how much energy you're combusting and heat to get their incredibly quick recovery rather than a thermal mass that allows it to recover. So you can kind of play either way. But I'll say this, and I might have said this on air, but I remember it was well over a decade ago, I interviewed Jose Andres relatively soon after he had opened Atlantico and I was doing an article on planches for food arts magazine at the time. And he said, I said to him and you know, I knew all about planches and I knew that they had this like, you know, a central heat and then it would spread out and it was colder and so people could then you know, spatially arrange the stuff that wanted lower heat over on the edge of the poncho and stuff that wanted higher heat or searing heat in the middle of the launcher right. Sounds familiar? That's how planche is supposed to work. And he says no, I just buy a griddle and I set the and so you know the American griddles have like the one he had had four zones for different burners, right? So I'm assuming he sets one side, high, and then the other side low. And then he has a gradient, he can move back, because that's the way most people who use griddles. That's how they think. Right? So they had this spatial organization of heat, much like a French flattop. And he's like, Oh, no, absolutely not. I sent the entire griddle to one temperature. It's like, what are we freaking crazy? And he's like, No, I write all of my recipes, such that everything only requires one temperature. And I was like, Oh, all right. You don't I mean, and that kind of makes sense. So when you're doing a lot of low temperature work, you're not going to need a lot of these little kind of warming zones or places you can let things ride, you're gonna want a big, even screaming mother of an object that you can just crank with, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Cool. All right. Listen, why don't you tweet or call in and let us know what's going on. But definitely, it's a huge recommendation. Don't trust anyone on their sales, salesmanship on buying equipment, go use this stuff, everybody sells you a bill of goods. And it's almost impossible, especially when you're shopping for something that you're going to have to cook with for years and years. And this goes, whether you're gonna go buy a combi oven or anything like this, anyone will sell you anything, and everyone sounds good. And a lot of equipment is good. But the things I would ask your your friends or anyone around, how often does that sucker break with a piece of electrical equipment, especially if you're gonna go induction, like ask a bunch of people that have used it not for like a week, or for like, you know, as Geoffrey Stein garden says, like, you know, all good knives are good, just like puppies, right? It's like, you want to know, how is that thing after a year, how many service calls do they have to have, and if it breaks, like how fast they're going to come in and fix it, because you don't want to build your business around, you know, some sort of induction range, and then it's going to die every week and a half now, old induction units used to die constantly, right? The reason being that no one had adequate cooling in them. And they would try to do things like put an induction range over an oven, and the heat would get so intense in the electronics, they would just fry. Now, I think the the modern inductions of the past, you know, six, seven years, they've probably dealt with a lot of that, you know, fixed a lot of that problem, but you want to make sure that that's not going to be an issue for you, because you don't want to be down unless you have a spare. Also, you know, as you know, as they say, here, you got to make sure it's got, you know, enough power, you know what I mean? You got to make sure that you weren't like cooking with it. And so I highly recommend finding one any good, big equipment manufacturer has a has someone that they can send you to to let you cook on it. You know what I'm saying? And then you know, like, you know, they'll know who bought it in your area, and you can go check it out and see whether or not it suits it suits your your cooking style, you do not want to be saddled with a system like that, that and regret it in five or six months, because you know, you might have to live with it for years. Yeah. Great. All right. Well, hope that's helpful.