Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This episode is brought to you by Joule the immersion circulator for Su V by ChefSteps. Order now at chefsteps.com/joul E.

I'm David volti. Host of the speakeasy you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s More

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This

is Dave Arnold, your host coming to you live on

the hairdryer network every Tuesday from man or like sometime like kind around 12 to like 1245 to 55 Sometimes one at a time on the heritage radio network in Brooklyn, and a specific area in Brooklyn is papa Bushwick. So we're here today Dave Dave's in the booth of David's in the booth. Hey doin Hey Good. Yeah, we do not have Anastasia the hammer Lopez. She is in Naples. Not Florida. Naples like the actual city. Oh, she didn't retire to Florida. Can you imagine the Stasi retiring to Naples Florida? No, she's in the actual you know, Naples like Napoli when I was a kid you got like we have some some guests here to take me stasis place but before I get to that David Where do you grew up again? outside of Philadelphia? Yeah. Did you get the monopoly car advertisements when you were a kid No Never saw see when I was a kid that word not believed to me was a used car salesman who literally called his used car lot Napoli like new cars he was caught has come to Napoli never heard this commercial anyone? No, no, I think it was a New York City and environs area. So like to me like when I think of Naples I think of used cars I don't think of you know, I mean, it's kind of sad. Right? The local commercials

here are pretty amazing. And they got a leg up on Philly for sure. Yeah, but

as I said before on the air, nothing on New Orleans New Orleans has like some like sweet local commercials. So taking the Stasi, the hammer Lopez place we actually we have two people here one officially say she's not here, but because she's here she actually is here we have this is not going to Nick Huang, and Nick. Hi. Hi. Yeah, you might have remembered him from the last time he was on the show. And he purposely made faces at me which you can't see through the internet, but wouldn't wasn't saying anything. But today's he sees gonna say stuff, right? Stuff stuff in the camera. So Nick, came to work with me at the French culinary when were you there? 2008 2008. And then after that went to sambar for what like a billion years. was 2 billion 2,000,000,002 years at Momofuku sambar. And then decided he needed to sow his non Momofuku oats and where do you go? You went to grammar school into grammar C and then you went out back to California for a while. Worked with Chris Constantino right? Yeah, what else did you work anywhere else there?

Nostalgia a few places and

then you hightailed it back to the to the good old east coast. Even though you're from California. I say you're from Milpitas, but you're not.

Yeah, you just made that up and made it really was. You just pull that out. You're as close though, right? Yeah, kinda.

I mean, it's, you know that Booker doesn't allow me to say the word Milpitas. I think you told me this. Yeah, Booker, because like, I think it's a hilarious word. And obviously, it sounds like, you know, like millipede or like, you know, I don't know, like you like junk like man junk. Kind of like, like a meal. Pete like, sounds weird. Sounds weird. It's like the town. It's my other favorite one that Booker won't let me allow me to stay over here in Connecticut is the minus one. Let me say the town name. my anus is Tony. my anus. There is well, he says it's pronounced meanness. And I'm like, prove it. And I've never had anyone call in who lives there and be like, is it meanness? Is it minus? phone lines are open? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Calling your questions or your correct pronunciation of minus 27184972128. That's 718-497-2128. So anyway, where do you actually from then if you're not from Lapidus, San Mateo. So then after that, it comes back to Momofuku sambar. What's your current title there? Shifted was the Chef de Cuisine. That's one of those weird titles shifted cuisine can mean like almost anything, right? Pretty much. Yeah. So like, Yeah, but you're actually coming up with recipes. Right? Anything new they're working on? Not really. Come on. What do you got new that you're working on? What do you put on the menu last month? That you that you think is fun?

We just did a new scalp crudo dish. It's going on in his menu tomorrow

kind of Scotch again. Good ones pretty heavy. Like like you're getting like C Bay. What

are you getting to scops 1020

Yeah. 1020 you know, you're my favorite scallops ever? The freshest scallops ever you ever like ever like like hanging out like in where they bring the Nantucket scallops right in and just get them like right there is over by my anus it well pretty close to my eyes everything wherever I'm there my anus is always pretty close. But the know that like Nantucket scallops like dayboat like right off the thing or like ocean

never shut the website I've I've I've always wanted to.

Yeah, well, the other thing is I think even when they are like live like on on the shell like how long they've been in transit is a huge impact on kind of their kind of flavor profile. But I don't know it's also like when you're hanging out up there. I don't know. Every all the seafood like has it tastes like you're eating it in New England. You know why? Because you are. You know, I mean food really tastes different depending on where you're eating and I think like your mental association with the food. Like if you hate the people cooking it never tastes good.

Yeah, yeah. Well, if you're eating in minus well again,

I won't go back into it. They're not going to drop me back into this Nick and we also have back into the anus. Oh my god, that was a good one. David, was that your is that Nico wasn't looking. It was sweet and sweet. We also have with us Astro Astro What's your last name? Huh? Cool. And you're a cook at at which one of the Daniel balut establishments Cafe Cafe balut has hasn't gone over there. It's good. Yeah. What do you make anything fun? You got anything fun? Fun dishes and dishes? Yeah, something that's like like yeah, I have to go try it I like I need to like run to me it's great place what do I need to go there and eat like right now

she put Korean food on a French restaurants menu. Really?

Really? What kind of, like hooked me up? Because also Cafe balloon is like, of all of them is the more traditional? I mean, but like actual like Danielle I haven't been in years and years but when I did go like it was like hardcore, like gara DOM service like like the waiter knows how to like get the fish out of the pastry and then like the bone it and put the filets without touching it like hardcore awesome. Like, like tears to your eyes old school French. But I mean, tell you how long it was last time. I was there was Dominic and Sal is still the pastry chef there so it was like a long time ago. But you know, they all they also had their share of like kind of like you know, kind of cutting edge and weird stuff to go with the old school French but I've always pictured like kind of Cafe blues being like, like, you know, like a bastion of kind of like a lot of the old school cool Frenchie stuff. Right? So what how do you create, create, unify Korea modify, Create, Create to create a dish Yeah. At the cafe we'll learn how to do that. What did you do? Like what are we talking to you add some pepper paste to it like What do you mean? What are you talking about? Did you throw some like wild mountain pickled vegetables onto it? Did you like did what do you do?

Oh We have we have a voyage section over menu, and it changes every season. So the next one is Korea. So I was trying to pitch a dish for fish.

That's good. It's you have good alliteration. There's rhyming more, but like, more rhyming, but we have a good dish for fish. So like, what else? What are they doing in Korea? Like how big is the void section of the menu?

It's a quarter of our menu.

That's a big voyage. So how long have you been doing voyages? They didn't used to have that years ago, did

they? They've had it since Gavin.

Yeah, so like hat like so again, longtime but like so. Give me Give me what are you doing to the fish? What are you doing?

So I'm doing the special for this past week was a take on algorithm which is a braised monkfish dish in Korea.

No good or bad.

Visually pretty shitty. Yeah, like it's a pile of red fish and then soybean sprouts

so once you overcook among fish, and then you keep going like what happens

right because like monkfish, what's interesting about it is it's got that like, kind of like Shell fishy kind of texture to it. Right? So really, it's okay, so you don't have like, okay, you know, Nick least as discussion. So it's been a long, you know, been having it for years and years. Back, I would say like, in the mid 2000s, right? When everyone was interested in these hyper low fish preparations, and like that, the thing that people were most worried about, like in life was overcooking your fish. Right? That was what everyone's like, you know, and when you're cooking that style, that prep style, which I think you know, a lot of it came to us via like, like the Roca is in Elkhart con Roca over there, because they were doing a lot of that really low, really low temperature fish or you know, and then later on, you had I guess, when Modernist Cuisine came out a couple of years ago, like that super low temperature, gooey duck this stuff that is like, not really cooked in the classic sense of cook. And so for a number of years, like cooked when I say cooked, I mean like traditionally cooked fish dishes were like, not served that he wouldn't get them. You know what I mean? I have a lot of restaurants. But monkfish is one of those fish that I think you want. Like I don't really particularly and people are gonna get mad at me like the low cooked shellfish except for the gooey duck actually that Myhrvold and Chris Young and those guys did. I thought that was excellent texture wise, but in general Miana like my shrimp hammered I'm not a barbarian I'm Alec cooked. I don't like it. But I don't like it when it's low. Especially something like a shrimp. You know how when shrimp is a little bit too under and it's still got a little bit of that paste that little bit? Yeah, I hate that either. hate hate every other color and Alright, so yeah, so we're gonna take hold on sec but But here's my question. So when you're doing monkfish, you actually want it to be a little bit springy. So it seems like it would work for a dish like that. And you shouldn't be afraid to do a longer afraid to do a longer clip version agree or disagree.

Agree? As you're surprised? No.

Oh, so yours is not braised traditional

and the traditional one is braised. We kind of re revamped everything so that

because you thought the traditional was to hammer new want to serve people like it looks,

it's a pile of red.

So pile of red. It's like you know, if you're gonna have a pile of something, I guess green would be your first choice. Red would be your second choice. Brown is Les Brown is blue is last.

I think blue over brown.

All right. Caller you're on the air.

Oh, hey, it's Judy from Malden gun.

Hey, how you doing Anastasia is has your cookies in the freezer. So yeah,

there was frost a couple of times. I think the cookies are where? Foxes good die in her building.

No, there apparently there's a freezer but we won't be eating them next week on the air.

No, there's another set of cookie. I've designed like 10 signatures from now which is crazy.

So what do you got going on? What do you got going on? You got a question for us.

Yeah, there's one specific question you want me to tell you about? Like what I had come up with in terms of pricing, but there's a cookie with Cheetos. Cooking. So how do you get the Cheetos a crispy?

Oh, well. You need to use a technique cookie. Cheetos are first of all, you have to if you want a Cheeto to remain crispy, you can't use the puffy ones. You have to use the hard ones, the ones that are less expanded. The ones I am using the hard ones. Alright. So that's your first step. The second step is that you're going to need to choose a low water cookie. You know what I mean? A low a low moisture cookie, you're going to have to go hard bake. Like you're not going to get a soft baked texture because it contains moisture and also have your Cheeto remain hard unless you did some like that. real fancy footwork and I had to think about it. But, you know, because there is a classic cookie that I didn't know existed maybe you guys know this existed maybe it's a California thing or maybe it's a Massachusetts thing. I don't know. King Arthur Flour has a recipe for it because the Chester County Fair where it was last week. They had a contest for it. Potato Chip Cookies. Potato chip cookies.

Oh, I like potato chips. The nachos. These compost cookie much better than I like pretzels. Pretzels are just gross.

They're my favorite. Tozi cookies. Corn yours, Nick. Compost, compost. My favorite corn. I don't like the coffee in it. Like kind of there's coffee in it. Right?

I like the coffee. Yeah, I

mean, I don't I'm not a fan of coffee flavored cookies. I mean, they're they're good. My favorite coffee with that. And that's neither here nor there. Yeah.

Do you like coffee flavored ice cream?

No. I can appreciate that. It's done well or done poorly, but I don't like it. You know what? I

think we're known as dasya doesn't like it? Yeah, I

mean, I will eat it. Unlike Anastasia I will eat something and I can appreciate if it's well made. What? No, she has Dunkin Donuts coffee is way too high rent for Anastasia. If it doesn't come from like a guy that made it the day before. Like Like, like on literally being sold on the street. She doesn't actually enjoy the taste or the paper cup doesn't like you know what?

I told an email that you have to get like a VISTA coffee and I can shock just for her. Really?

Yeah, sure. chock full of nuts. That brings back some pleasant memories of getting no they're not pleasant. What am I talking about? No. Yeah, chocolate nuts is not bring back pleasant memories. I mean, it's fine. Whatever my mom used to my mom was meant to med school. When I was a kid and the only source of nutrients for the med students without leaving the hospital at Columbia. Uptown was a truck full of nuts. And so like I spent a good chunk of my childhood only eating crappy overwrapped and sometimes rancid cream doughnut pastries from I'll never forget I didn't I used to hate cream donuts for like, like 1010 12 years because I got one that was moldy. And it knocked me off the cream donuts at at a chock full of nuts in the 70s in you know uptown in New York and in knocking off the cream donuts for like well over a decade. I don't eat I still don't like them. I'll eat them. Do you like cream doughnut?

moldy? Doughnuts only moldy?

Only moldy only mold? I like Boston ganja Of course, you're from up there. So the

but about Dunkin Donuts like people order extra extra even though regular tastes like almost ice cream Anyway,

look, you know, I gotta get to the pricing thing in a sec cuz I got a bunch of stuff I gotta get to but here but before I do that, let me just say this Dunkin Donuts and there's this argument on the internet. So while going to keep coming back up. Dunkin donut has ruined the world in terms of the way they spell donut. It's just ruined. It's ruined and they've also ruined that you know that they've trademarked they can trademark Boston cream because they spell it CR EMECREME What the heck is CR e m e? Boston Cream? It's a Boston Krin do not it's a they sell donuts. They do not sell donuts and I happen to like Dunkin Donuts by the way, the flavor of Dunkin Donuts I happen to enjoy them because I grew up eating them. I'm just very mad at what they've done to our language. Yeah. Oh,

okay, one more thing. There is a cookie was sumac?

That's good. I like sumac.

They're quote unquote flimsy ones in the cookie and bright and

hot. Whenever I think of Slim Jims. I have to I have to if I was wearing a hat I would take it off from a man Macho Man Randy Savage the face gotta pull one out. Yeah, I gotta pull it snap snap

soon there's not really a solution or you're gonna think that

out I think I think about it. But remember I would I would look at the classic potato chip cookie recipe and see what they're doing. But I looked at the classic potato chip cookies that were the winners in this contest they had at the Chester County Fair which by the way, we should all enter everyone at cooking issues who listens should go and we should just crush all the locals not that they can't cook but when she gets Imagine if imagine if all these like cooking nerds descended on Chester The Chester fair every year and was just like, oh, and just like dropped like a huge like splat of stuff on everyone's like baked good. It'd be crazy. would be awesome. It'd be intense. You know what I mean? Also, here something upsets me about the Chester County Fair. Chester County Fairs vegetable, the vegetable judging. It's all shape. It's all shape, shape. So like ever, no flavor, no flavor and not even like a size. So like we're growing like a huge pumpkin. Huge. It's already it already weighs more than the kids. It's huge. You know what I mean? Like both of the kids put together But it's like, it's like shape. I mean, that's like that's what's that's what's so wrong with American fruit and veg today is the shape based, because who cares? shape and color? Who cares? That's not mean color sometimes is indicator of quality. But rarely, you know what I mean? It's like, I mean, you're more read whatever it

is this social commentary on body image in the media.

It could be if you want it to be or it could just be we need to change the way that people judge fruit and veg, in a county fairs and people. People Yeah, sure if you could change that mean, like, I don't really judge people, I just judge fruit and veg. Anyway, so so you're gonna send more cookies, and we'll talk about the pricing when they cut when they get here. I think she dropped the article. All right. I like like Nick tries to make it into a deep inner inner meaning kind of thing. I know you're not a deep inner mean, sort of a person? No, no, as we used to call it dim, no, none of that. Alright, so since we're gonna run out of time, remind me at the Oh, next week, we're going to be I'm going to be at Harvard, I don't know if Anastasia is coming up or not. But I'm doing the talk with Harold McGee, so I won't be able to be here I'm giving a public lecture with Harold McGee on Monday and our you know, I don't know how you get into it or whatever up in at Harvard. And the subject that I will be discussing is how kind of modern ideas of cooking and kind of observational and analytic cooking has led to a change in kitchen equipment design both from my own perspective like Sears all centrifuge cubes stuff like that and other people's perspective like the baking steal, and maybe what the future of that means as opposed to the past and kitchen design so that's one of the things I'm or Implement Design. That's one of the things I don't know what Harold's gonna be talking about. He may or may not talk about Impossible Foods and like food engineering from that side, which is a kind of a whole new category of things that's going on but anyway, that's what I'm talking about. So what else do you know Nick? You ever grow tomatoes? Nope. My tomatoes are growing so beautifully this year and I've not eaten one because some evil freaking either climbing or small mammal has eaten I see the teeth marks in the tomatoes I have not had one freaking tomato my tomato plants are like six and a half feet tall all up on like things like all beautiful like healthy as all get out. Not one thank goodness. whatever this thing is doesn't like cucumbers or pumpkins. Or I'd have nothing repeated do that zip.

If you can't Perla leaves around? They'll stay away.

Really? But to sweared like because tomatoes are also a stinky leaf you think that they would? Can you to your planter? You plant things? No, my

dad used to.

Yeah, can I can I just put like a like, like a some sort of evil like, like fence of death. Can I just obliterate everything that lives that walks near the tomatoes? Is there some sort of like something that does that? I don't know. I mean, I bear this thing. ill will. Ill Will. You gotta make yourself a tesla coil to protect your tomatoes. If I look in November, Nathan Myhrvold was working on that like like Star Wars defense system for mosquitoes. He was going to wipe out malaria. I need that to protect protect my tomato plants. I don't think that ever happened. Anyway. All right. Okay. By the way, my son DAX Lazy, Lazy, Lazy. I was cooking for all these people this this weekend cooking so much. You know what I mean? Because I last week I was on vacation. So like family was coming while I was cooking cooking. I'm like DAX. I need to I need to cook. I need to cook. Can you roast the coffee? All he has to do is sit there and turn a crank for like 10 minutes roast coffee. The entire 10 minutes complaining about how much work it was and why can I go buy a automatic coffee roasting machine? Lazy. I love him. Lazy. Anyway, he did help me build a hovercraft. We built the hovercraft together. I saw that video as fun hovercraft fun. Next step propulsion Anyway, before I've got a really good leaf blower, and this has nothing to do cooking, let's get into cooking. Shai wrote in a long time ago about plums. So here's the question. I've recently made a nice plum tart, but it had a somewhat bitter tart taste to it. It's a flavor I've noticed before to an extent and uncooked nectarines and peaches. All the plums I've used were very ripe and not bitter at all. I've mixed them with some brown sugar, then bake them for quite a long time until the crust crust got crisp and brown. Anytime they see brown is bad in a big dish that you serve out. But like anything, it's crisp and brown people like you know, I mean, crisp and brown. Good. Golden brown, golden brown, golden brown, right? It's inherently good. Yes. Anyway. Can you suggest the reason for the flavor to develop during baking and hopefully a method to prevent it? Thanks shy? Yes. Well, at first I thought I think you have multiple problems. First of all, what you're noticing is not just you. A quick internet search shows that this is a problem a lot of people have had With plumped hearts, and I think also sometimes with apricots and cook plums in general. So the short answer is, no one's written the answer and like what people have said is pretty much like the stuff the answers I have seen are pretty much wrong. I did do some research. In the end, here are the three articles that I read the physical pretreatment of plums Prunus domestica part to the effect on quality characteristics of different pruned cultivars by Luciano Chien quanta, and I read bitterness and astringency of flavor and three all monomers dimers and trimers by Hannah Pelle egg in 1999, along along with a couple of other things, and here's what I think's going on. Very interesting. Very interesting. There are so there's a lot of like poly phenols, and like tannins and stuff in in plums, both in the skins where you taste them more in terms of stringency, and in the plum fruit itself. Now, one thing I was thinking is that you ever noticed you guys have noticed this when you eat a plum. If you chew on the skin for a long time, you get a lot more of that astringency versus if you just hop on and like suck it down. And also like a lot of the acidity is in the plum skin area in a plum. And so like I've noticed a lot when I'm doing plump juices, or infusions with plums, that if you let them sit a long time on the skin the same way that you do with a grape, you're pulling a lot more of the astringency out and a lot more of the sourness. So like, like a short, you know, a quick juicing where you don't let the plums so typically when I want to extract a lot of those flavors, before I do any juicing or clarification, I'll just smash the pumps, the plums and the skins maybe even. And then depending on how much you want, you can blend it if you blend it, it really does get very stringent and bitter once you then spin it out or clarify or whatever else you're going to do with it right. So at first I thought that was the only thing that was going on. But then when I did some research, it turns out that this is a known issue. When you dry plums, the the amount of the catechins and which is the same kind of polyphenols that you get in teas, they provide a lot of like kind of those bitter astringent notes and teas. They're like somewhat bitter, somewhat astringent, but they're polymerize. To a certain extent, this is what I've gathered, I could be totally wrong, but chemists will write in their polymerize to a certain extent in a native plumb. But the more of those polymers are built up, the more they taste astringent, right, the more they're broken down into smaller molecules, the less stringent they are, the more bitter they are. So perhaps and this is, is shown, like the data in these articles show that during the drying of plums, from plums to prunes, prunes are so delicious that they actually changed the name. You know what I mean of the thing from Plum to prune, you know, dried apples, which I love are still just dried apples reasons. Right people like a raisin. Right? They deserve their own name. I personally think dried apricots deserve their own name. I personally think that the best dried apricot to me I would rather eat it than a fresh fresh apricot. Fair. Yeah. Yeah, I think it deserves its own name. I don't know, Nick, you'll come up with it. So munis, I don't think people would buy a lot of the a lot of those. I like how you're pronouncing with the alternate pronunciation though. Anyway. So my point being that as these things dry the level of there, the poly phenols in them by dry weight, as composed of on polymerize catechin goes up by a good chunk. So you can have something that doesn't appear bitter, that then appears more bitter now as to what's going on with the tartness or getting more tart. I don't know. But the interesting thing is here that there is chemistry going on here that is beyond my kind of knowledge, but someone else can find out now as to how you fix it. I don't know. I would try to maybe do a test where you cook down some that you've blanched and peeled. Can you blanch and peel a plum? Probably could mean I guess you could. I'm just saying that though, because I've never tried it. I've never appealed a plum mean on purpose. I mean, I've sat there with my teeth and peel the skin areas off. But I tell you what, I'm not I tell you what I'm not doing I'm not sitting there with a knife and trying to cut the skin off of a ripe plum. That's what's not going to happen. No, would you try to do that Nick? Never tell a story on here where we tried to make you peel fennel seeds. I know you never made me Yes. No. Remember I pressure cook the fennel seeds. And they said those little white insides in them. And I tried to convince you as a joke to peel a quart container fennel seeds down to the little white things that some other stupid person that's not me. I think that was human and pretty sure it wasn't me. I don't know. Where the one of the other stupid intern. Do we have another Nick one? Yes. All right. Anyway, so like I would try taking the skin off. And then the other thing I would try is maybe doing like some sort of like either I mean, it sounds kind of gross, but like an egg whites soak or like a milk soak to see whether you can complex, more do a more of a hard complex thing with the casein of some of these things. To suck them out of the plumb before you cook it. Alternatively, you could use something else that like some other charged proteinaceous thing that might complex with the precursors to this bitterness and knock them out. That's my another thing you can do is you can try to actually dip this stuff in milk and see whether that reduces the bitterness after the fact in which you know, as a test to see what what's happening, although, my guess is is that the more condensed the more polymerize the these things are, the better they will complex with milk but again, you're beyond my actual level of knowledge and you're into my realm of extreme speculation. Anyway, which is where I live most of my life. By the way, speaking of bitterness, do you know that you know boletes you know, boletes the mushrooms like you know, like porcinis boletes they're the ones that have the pore structure instead of the gills. Good news about boletes is that their tastes good and that they

that they're not poisonous like there's very few boats they're no boletes that are gonna kill you. You know what I mean? It's like if you go for gilled mushrooms and you get the wrong killed mushroom like you're toast you know I mean like unless you get a liver transplant your host you know what I mean? You know, like destroying angel you know, Emma Anita things like this. Bullies like some of them are like toxic ish, but like they're not going to kill you anyway. But there's there's one that looks fairly similar to an actual 14 It's called a bitter bully. Bitter bleep bitter bully. You are bitter bullied Nick. Nick was sick and say I was a bitter but it turns out I have these up in Connecticut. But here's the interesting thing that I'm going to maybe cook some up and bring it the whatever is bitter in a bitter bully is only bitter to people who have the genetic ability to taste that particular bitter compound and like prop you know, the bitter tasting strips that people test to see if you're a super taster. Not everyone can taste it. So if you don't have the genes to taste it apparently it's delicious mushroom as delicious as a porcine. But then if you have that gene. It's as disgusting as chewing on Prop strips, like hardcore bitter, so I'm gonna try to find some and then bring it back and we'll have a bitter bully cook off. And then we'll sit there and like, I hopefully I can taste it just so that I can serve it to other people. So I can sit there and be found in it. And then someone else eats is like, Ah, right. What do you think? Are you super taster? You guys either. Have you ever done prop? I'm pretty sure most producer I think he did it once. But I'm not I've definitely not and I don't feel bad. I don't feel bad about it. To quote Macy Gray. Hey, David, you ever done that Prop strip? You know I'm talking about though never heard of. So what the classic thing you do. So here's the thing if you want to pretend to be a super taster, and really I don't see why you would because a lot of like it like it's a really crappy like because it makes it seem like it's an awesome thing to be super taster may may or may not be but like whatever. It's like just ruin your life. I don't know. Well apparently, you know, super tasters are the ones that go for the white Zen just saying the same make with that uh, you want but you know there you have it. The white hater the wages and by the way, people out there and maybe get some in the chat room. Why has no one made a delicious well crafted whites in? I mean, I'm sure they had let me take that back. Why have I never tasted a delicious well crafted white sin? Because we all grew up, like what grew up. We all grew up in drinking life. I think especially like, you know, my age, like a lot of people were pounding that sweet white rocket whites in you know what I mean? And so like it took a long time for even real good Zinfandel to kind of overcome that hump of like the white Zen, like the kind of you know, bad connotations of the white Xin. But then why hasn't there been more of like a white zin comeback like good whites in like, what can it not be made? I'm sure someone makes a delicious one. I just haven't had it. I had it. You know, whatever. Whatever. It's not. It's neither here nor there. Anyone's like another color shirt color. You're on the air. Hello, hey.

I'm a baker and I make a carrot pumpkin bread every year.

I had a question about that. Sure. How do you hear the pumpkin?

Right? So it's just a roasted, roasted squash whatever whatever it can find kabocha blue Hubbard and then most of the hydration for the bread. It's a rye bread most the hydration comes from carrot juice. So I basically the bread is delicious. I just wanted to reduce some of the labor of it, especially since I don't have an outlet for the runoff from the juicing process. And looks like carrots are mostly are pretty high pectin. So I was wondering if anyone had experience just kind of breaking down carrots into a marsh with pectin and pectinase enzymes. Maybe for you've done something like that for a cocktail or wants to know how that would work out.

I have but it's been many, many years. MaineCare it's one of those things that like, you know, auto auto clarifies to a very high extent as opposed to like a lot of other juicers on separation like so. It's one of those things that I haven't focused a lot on in like trying to clarify it. And it's been I used to do. Like back in the day, we run for that one, Nick, we did apples and carrots, we did a bunch of cocktails like that. Gin, Apple carrot, but it's been a long, long time. Look, the original purpose of a lot of these pectinase things, there was one that I used to use on Apple's called pectin X smash X XL, which was what we started using before we were using SPL back in the day. And its stated goal is to increase the yield of juice out of increase the yield of juice out of apples, and I'm sure it would also work on carrots. Now I would use SPL because my guess is that there's probably beyond pectin that there's a good bit of like hemicellulose and stuff and a carrot. So I would carrots are like one of the reasons carrots are hardest because aren't they high in calcium? Anyway, like, doesn't that reinforce the pectin structure is I haven't researched carrot in a million years. But I remember the Modernist Cuisine guys used to say that the internal, like the very tap root inside structure of the carrot is higher in calcium that like lighter core, and that they did a differential tasting, where they pop the core out and did like a triangle test of like the outside of the carrot versus the inside. And I think they were saying that they thought it was a higher calcium level that was increasing to a bitterness perception in the inside of the taproot but I don't know if that's actually what was going on. Or if it's just the majority of the sugar storage is in the outside. I don't know how far they went into it. Anyway, but in many years, but so my guess is that yes, pretreatment with pectin X Ultra SPL will increase your yield, there's got to be some good use for that dry, nasty Pope. There's got to be like, some sort of some sort of crappy health cookie. Or some sort of crappy health cookie like is there's got to be some use. That's like, you know, how, like, when you make tofu, you have all the Okara leftover, like the things and you're like, what am I gonna do with this? And so you just add a little bit to like every muffin and pancake you make for the next like, you know, month to try to get rid of it until it starts going stale and Stankey. In your in your, in your fridge? You guys know what I'm talking about? Right? Yeah. Yes, carrot pulp the same way. Can you just kind of toss dry worthless carrot pulp into as roughage for people who want like a cookie that helps them like, go? Go go, you know, to the bathroom? Or no?

Yeah, I mean, we've we found that the runoff from the juicing just isn't really flavorful to use for too much.

Yeah, no, it's just fiber, just fiber. Yeah,

I mean, I guess what I was wondering is, is if so, say I'm using about I think, if I remember, right, it's about like 50%, carrot juice, 50% of water. And in the the formula, if I were to just take care of, and submerge them one to one by weight in water, plusspec and x and kind of let it sit, and then would that No, break down at all, or

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, what you'd have to do is you'd have to juice it, take the pulp, treat the pulp with pectin x, and then try to do another juice extraction on that. Okay, pegson x will not penetrate at all. In fact, we used to use the pecs annex Ultra SPL to do things like, you know, one of the old tricks is to get all of the white off of like doing supremacy of like pomelos. And something things are very hard to do supremacy of, and, you know, we would peel it first because it wouldn't penetrate through the peel, then we would break them into like, like halves and quarters, then soak it, then break it apart after it started dissolving and then soak it again, to get all this stuff off. This stuff just will not penetrate. It won't like even under vacuum conditions. In a carrot specifically, care infused. Vacuum infusions into carrots tend not to go that deep, unless you're doing super multiple pulses. And so I highly doubt that you're going to get that much of an increase in yield unless you could if you if you if you put all of the carrots if you didn't want to juice it twice. If you put all the carrots through like a like a robo coup with a disk in it, and like chip them into carrot chips, and then soak them in, packed an axe and then pull them out and throw them throw them through your champion or wherever you're using. That might increase your yield, but I would run some test to make sure that it's worth the time and effort. Otherwise, I would just try to do a reduce of this stuff and see whether the stuff that comes out later is any good. Here's a question. It's just off the top of my head. If any of you guys ever make rice bran pickles you don't Undermountain restaurant because I wonder because when we make rice bran pickles, you know you have to like incubate the rice brand and all this and it has to have a it has a certain moisture content, you're baring your vegetables and you have to replenish blah blah blah blah blah, right? I wonder whether you could cut a rice brand mixture with like, really dry press carrot stuff. I wonder whether you could like add it whether it would be bad. Or would it add like a good thing to like an already going rice bran pickle? What do you think?

I don't know. But it's fiber though.

That's right. Well, what's rice bran fiber plus some fat and some other stuff. What's carrot? What's carrot waste? Little bit of sugar. Not no fat fiber bans on the same like go 100% I'm saying like go partial. Do you think it would rot? Or do you think it's a low enough moisture content? It'd be okay. I don't know.

I don't I mean, with all the sugar and like the EC though. That'd be the one concern.

Right? But that's what when you taste like when you do a good job. Like if you'd like double double juice or whatever the pulp that comes out of a champion with the carrot stuff. It's pretty. It's fairly neutralized compared to a real carrot. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder how much actual sugar is left in there. I get what you're saying. Like you wouldn't want a lot of you wouldn't want yeast to stuff going, by the way be interesting. Anyway. I don't know someone's first tried it. Well,