Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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This episode is brought to you by Joule the immersion circulator for Su V by ChefSteps. Order now at chefsteps.com/joul e Hello everybody. This is Joby from A Tribe Called Quest slash eats rhymes in life. And you're here listening to heritage Radio Network

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold your host with cookies just coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like 12 to like 1245 or one Coronavirus pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn joined as usual with Anastasia hammer Lopez How you doing? Sounds good. Good. Got Dave in the booth. How you doing Dave? Good. Yeah, and special guests. today. We have Ariel Johnson from formerly of where do you go originally? You went to Harvard NYU originally and right here and why you were originally where you knew I met you first there right when you were with cankers Yeah, that was like like nine years ago. Right. And then you then you moved on to UC Davis or you did your your doctoral work on cocktail bitters.

Yes. Among fermentations in flavor chemistry,

analytics and still installed me some data for our did stormy some time on her GC Mass Spec machine to take a look at what the series all does to meet which is very helpful. Then did a stint at mad over there in Noma Ville and then in the Denmark right? Yeah, recently got back from that and is now some sort of like, what do they call it? Like? What's the title over there at MIT?

Oh, a director's Fellow at the Media Lab.

Right but like more of the quantitative side of the Media Lab right? Yeah, the like sciency so Sinatra not decide where you where you say that my refrigerator is going to call me on a Thursday and take me to the movies on a Friday and then pick up lettuce for me on on a Monday.

I mean, only if we're like trying to optimize the flavor of that lettuce as well.

Are they still doing that? Oh yeah. Why isn't that happened already? Like why can't Why can't my refrigerator asked me out on a date or babysit my kids for me and get me lettuce? Like wasn't that the dream?

I mean, I think that was the dream but like, I mean, some of what you're seeing now with like like nests and other of these like internet's

keeps my house thing warm or cold buttoning? Yeah, but like

if the if the like database goes offline than your than your

well at night reverse winter like homestead first to a normal thermostat. Yeah, so I

think I think you could have a talking refrigerator but maybe they're applying more things to the back end right now. I'm

just asking do you want your refrigerator to talk to you?

I would just like a full sized fridge that's all I want right now.

Wow. You see what I love about to start here, small baby step eight. Well, because

why solve a like social problem with a technological solution? Well, I mean, certain types of problems clearly just you Getting a larger fridge.

Like if if I like there are certain problems that I would like to solve Like for instance, if I never had to shave again it would be awesome without having like laser your debit that looks looks strange, right? Well, laser in your face. Do you really want to spend that associate not face? Who you know people that are laser there? They're down there. Yeah. Yeah, that's like a normal. Yeah, remember, I grew up in the 70s like I'm the you know, the last of the last of the generation,

you would like a face that perfectly optimizes like to day, stubble amounts of scruff.

I wouldn't mind me and like, look, once you're past the point of, of trying to have any sort of like, I can grow hair therefore I manly or I need to get into the club. And I'm not 21 Which, you know, by the way I couldn't when I was when I was you know 2918 1920 I could not grow facial hair like I can now and so therefore, you know, it was no use to me then. And now it's of no use to me anymore. I just assumed go smooth faced. I mean that like baby, I don't want a baby face. But like I don't know. What do you guys think? Are you pro? Like what's your struggle feeling? Like? For me? It's just laziness. How do you how do you I have several on my legs? What do you feel about dudes with double D? Would you prefer a totally smooth face or not? Don't care?

Yeah, I don't really have a strong preference. Anyway, that's a

technological solution that if it was it'd be weird, though, for me to go laser my face.

I mean, it wouldn't be the weirdest thing you've ever done by a longshot.

The weirdest thing I've ever done, but it would be like a weird thing. What if it was simple? You know, I don't know, like a like a pill that you take, like if my refrigerator can shave for me. Yeah. Right. So what's the dumbest thing? You can't say this you can say like, What about like, what's the current MIT Media Labs? Thoughts on 3d printing and food? You know how I feel about it? Um,

no one's actually brought it up to me there. So So, so far, we've dodged that bullet. I am not a fan of 3d printing and food. I think it's kind of senseless. Yeah. But don't people up there love that kind of stuff. They love 3d printing for like prototyping of who doesn't like that's a good idea. But there's enough like vending machines in the Media Lab that they have not yet that I've seen, tried to 3d print their food as well.

Are they the kind of people that still like try to like run all the vending machines in their Twitter account? Like what's it like over there?

Well, there's this amazing, like Slack connected webcam called the food cam. So if you have like leftover food, you put it in a particular place and hit a button, and then the entire lab gets a blast with a photo of that food. But

why would they do that

for free food? Oh, I see. grad students do No,

we love that Natasha is the queen of please take my half eaten food. Does that mean that

like this is ideal for that you just put it in a place and then someone gets a notification and comes and gets it?

Stassi you should get you should go work there. Like, like, if Miss dassia I've seen this dassia on more than four occasions, attempt to give mangled sandwiches to homeless people. She's always failed. Nobody turns out nobody wants a mango sandwich. It just goes to show Anastasia how hard up the MIT Media grad students are. Yeah, if they're willing to pound a half mangled sandwich with like, literally like, you know how when you pick up a sandwich, that's mushy. And you get those fingerprints in the half that you have from trying to squish it and and trying to control it so that the stuff doesn't slip out of the back while you're eating in the front. If you can pick up somebody's sandwich that that has happened to and start eating it. Like that's a new level.

But I think I think I think with the with the food camp, it becomes this sort of like competitive thing of like, how many how much of my calories like what percentage can I get just from free food? She says, like a point of pride that you don't pay for anything you just eat. What is there?

These are people at MIT, right? Yeah,

these are like students, grad students, engineers. My point

is, is that they should have like they have apparently the brains they shouldn't be like Anastasia and I trying to get like the cheapest free stuff they should just like, become the new Overlords of the tech world instead with that energy thing that comes a little later for my thought everyone thought all the Overlords of the tech industry were like 2025. But what about old man, Old Man Blues? All right.

Well, and they'd save time becoming that way. But eating free food, I think might be their rationale.

They literally think it's faster to go on their phone, find food, go to where the food is consumed the food tweet to their buddies obey the route rather than just hit Send me a freaking pizza.

Well, and it's free.

I don't know. I'm just saying I feel that the youth is wasted on the dumb doesn't make sense to me. Have you eaten this free food?

I've eaten doughnuts from the food. Oh,

that's not doughnut. A doughnut is like Stassi I would eat a doughnut that was leftover in a box of doughnuts. That's not Same thing. Would you eat the half eaten? Doughnut? No? No? Are people kind of they break the food in half? Or do they slice it? Or do they mangle it?

I'm not sure it sounds like we'll have to have an experiment where we put out food of different different angles, different degrees of magnitude, and keep track of how much of it gets taken and how long it takes for each piece to get taken.

Right. I think the best would be like if there's other types of food particles near it. Yeah, and a fork stuck in it.

Well, I mean, also bear in mind, there's a lot of like 20 year old dudes around so the like daring each other to eat something growth factor. Yeah, can't be discounted.

Or people over there just high all the time.

Not that I've seen but

anyway, alright, so a thank you out to a we pop soupy pot who, you know, one of the founders of the Noma KU Jacks ran dirty status last week, Jack Schramm, our head bartender, although by the way, speaking of head bartender, as I said, Booker index, his last day of business in the current incarnation will be on October the 15th. So of 2016, so you should go check it out if you want to get your book or index style drinks on prior to October 15th. Because No date has yet been announced when we will open another one. Yeah. Anyway, so Jack Schramm, our head bartender, was in Thailand. So we pop one of the founders and creators of the Nomad coup, which did not win best new device or best technology thing at the taste talk awards, but he's in good losing company because Museum of food and drink we also lost yesterday the CIA, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because I mean, the CIA not know that the Culinary Institute the arts, they were so much bigger and like older than we are. So it's like, even like to be in the category is like, that's great. But I mean, how the heck are we going to beat out the CAA for best, like food, cultural institution? How to how to do that? Yeah, I mean, I mean, a sense, makes no sense. Or southern foodways Alliance was in there. Anyway, so we pop like, you know, for those of you that know me a long time, personally, I don't think I talked about on the air, I had this obsession with cleared and stained animals, you know what that is? Yeah. So for those of you that don't know, what you do is, people also call it something stupid, like diaphanous sizing or something dumb word like that cleared. Instead, what you do is you take typically a small animal, like a fish rat, or a frog or something like this. And you soak it in potassium hydroxide, which is a very strong base. And that denature is a bunch of the proteins and softens it up and like basically make renders the entire animal, transparent, totally transparent. You then soak the animal in dyes and the different dyes like like, there's a blue that which is the blue they use in in slide staining, there's a loser in the loser in recruiting Yeah, they use that one and they use one of the blue,

brown, final blue. I don't know one of the other ways that's for a period indicator,

I don't know. Yeah, there's several blue, they use one of the blues, and they soak them and then release them out. And the different dyes have preferential affinities for different tissues. And so they can soak them into for instance, the bones or the nervous system, and then leech them back out. So you have the transparent animal with the color of the bones and the color of the and I friggin just love these things. So we pop sent one back in case and acrylic this little Oh, nice little fish. But the problem is, it's technically very difficult to do it on really large specimens because like, like diffusion, I guess I guess the outside turns to total mush before the inside is totally donner. You maybe you can't leave stuff out fast enough because I've always had this dream in like, in like teaching butchery. Like especially fish butchery because it's like hard to totally visualize where all the bones are in a fish to just have completely, like cleared and stained like striper. Oh, that'd be amazing. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like full size striper when you

think you could like perfuse it the way they do when they're like embalming corpses.

Well, when you're bombing a corpse, right? You're not promises that as you're doing it, you're destroying, you're not destroying, but you're reducing the structural integrity of the animal, right? So like, let's say you were going to refuse it. Like, I don't know whether this stuff would collapse or whether or not I mean it, but it's interesting idea. I just think nobody's ever attempted big animals as far as I know. Like, you know, the ultimate would be like the cleared and stained like cow. Yeah, yeah, show. Like, you know, like 3d butchery on? Has anyone done the 3d Cow butcher program yet that you know of?

Not that I know of, but I think there should be you know, what an app for the

yeah, there should be an app for that. I wanted to because all you need is like you needed to scan the cow. I'm sure this has happened. Scan the cow and then just reassemble you have a 3d cow. And then you take like, you know, a knife, and you make your do your online butchery of the cow. And it's not the same as real buttery, because real buttery, involves like moving the meat around to get to the right bones. It's not maybe

you could build like a haptic feedback knife that says

such as crazy, the new iPhones.

disconcerting you would have to

know You'd have cuz you'd have to, like have scans of all the confirmations of the meat as it was peeling away. Yeah, I mean, like real butchery requires the manipulation of the meat as it comes off the board but strictly as a sectioning, it would be interesting to be able to like fully section it out. You know what I wanted to start seeing I talked about this a while ago, one of the I wanted to make 3d toys for the museum like imagine like little pigs and cows that are magnetic, and you pull them apart at the at the meat boundaries.

I have something like that. Yeah, I got in. In Japan, it's a bonito that will disassemble with Velcro. So you can see where the different lines for katsuobushi come from on the fish. And is it for chefs or for kids? I'm not sure. Do you know that a little expensive for a kid's toy? Well, yes,

most Japanese things are, like misono wants made a and they might still make it they make a child's chef's knife, which is basically a misono where they just took the front tip off of it. Like literally, it's like, school scissors for chef knives. But you can still like slice device yourself. Slice the hell out of your finger. Yeah. Which is what your kid's gonna do your kid.

I mean, like, it's interesting, like, learn the hard way. Don't do it again, with the

misono. I mean, it's like, like to me, it's like this is like, you don't have Stasi and I might think this way. It's like, okay, they're not going to stab my eye because doesn't have a point on it anymore. But what's the first thing a kid does when eight when eight when they take a knife? They put their fingers flat? Yeah, they don't like they don't roll their hands and they don't necessarily look at what they're doing. So it's like, I mean, I would doubt that the average first injury that a kid gets is stabbing their their brother or sisters I with a knife? I would imagine the kids first injury is coming straight down onto a finger. Yeah,

I mean, does it come with a fingertip reattachment kid? No, it's like it should

come with those cut proof kind of gloves and how to how that those things are useless to me. Like it's like if you're in like large scale Buttrey where you don't need like a lot of like dexterity with your left. Let's assume you're right handed. If you don't need a lot of dexterity with your left, or if you're like really in guts and goop with your right and you don't need like, like, yeah, you could hold a big like, a big freakin knife with one of those things. And you don't need that much kind of like feedback in your hand. But how the hell are you gonna like, like, do fine work with those cut resistant gloves on like fine work.

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's like the trade off.

And with little fingers. Yeah, little kid fingers inside of those cut resistant gloves. Yeah, how the hell they gonna learn properly?

What do they need? Like a thinner space age? Polymer?

Kids need to come with extra hands. Well, yeah. It's like when kids do really gross things. Don't you wish you could just pop their hands off? And put on me hands? Yeah, put fresh hands on.

I'm like, those hands are no good anymore.

I've seen my kids fall like in the street. Like, like downward and Stassi. And I used to work and we would just wanted like, we wish we could just unzip them just put a whole fresh dam on the outside. Because this is like the idea of cleaning off all that garbage is just

kids who really mold like snakes. That's

true. Or lobsters? Well, yeah, lobsters gross. lobsters have to starve themselves and shrink out of their shell break through the caravans and come up. That's why they don't taste as good right after they shed

that'd be less ideal for children than Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. I think so. Have you ever had one of those high pressure de shelled lobsters? No, you know about this, right? If you put the if you kill a lobster with like the super high pressure pasteurization thing, apparently you can just like, like remove them from the shell.

They just pop out.

I guess I don't know. Like, this is what like the monitor schoolzine I think had a picture of them. Like the whole lobster. It's just the meat completely articulated. But with no shell.

I thought I thought maybe they had some intern that had to like pick every piece of meat out with tweezers and then sew it back together.

That sounds like a Nathan Myhrvold thing to do. But I don't think that's what they did. Maybe someone in the chat room will know the speaking of shells without mentioning this, I was doing some tests of pressure cooking eggs and vinegar. Okay, so obviously it decalcify the shell and vinegar arises the egg, but I haven't had 100% success. I've had marginal success.

Well, how do you define marginal success? Well,

I did it with just vinegar. And the eggs were quite hard. I mean, like quite hard coming out, like quite hard. Good. A little bit of that gross calcium case had penetrated the actual egg. But the shells are after an hour and 15 an hour and 20 and the pressure the shells were completely peelable awful. They were actually interestingly there was still some my yard on the on the egg, which leads me to believe that the vinegar hadn't penetrated to the alkalis the white until like fairly late in the game. Like maybe it cracked and penetrated. I don't know. The second time I tried Do you make flash you'd like mustard eggs? Explain. It says you have mustard eggs. So you take like vinegar and mustard. Some people use mustard powder some people just squeezed mustard into it and other spices like pickling spices like coriander and you know alliums and crap and you throw Hardwell eggs into it and just let it sit and they turned yellow and vinegary. It's like a pickled a like a beat pickled egg but not with mustard with mustard.

That's super tasty it's

it is that'll sugar too because if you were to give me any day of the week you say here have this thing that tastes like beets or here have this thing that tastes like mustard and Stassi Which one do you choose? must absolutely mustard absolutely mustard. DAVE What would you ever choose a beat over a mustard? Watch out? No, not in this case. Yeah. Because like, I love beets though. Really? Yeah. You know, like beets. I like beets. But I mean, you say I like beats means like, I really like beats. Like, do you like playing in dirt? I don't think that's a fair analogy. No.

I mean, it's like literally the same flavor molecule. Yeah.

Yeah. Like the jasmine, Jasmine, Jasmine, the flavor compounds from dirt, which by the way, Harold McGee says that there's a museum. He went to a micro Museum in Holland, if you've been to this, I've heard of it, but I haven't been to it yet. He said they have a bacterial culture that makes pure Jasmine. Yeah, it's like just bacteria but smells like dirt. But anyway, that same thing is in beads and tilapia. So in beads, we learned to like it because it's characteristic of beads. But if that smell bothers you, and other things, then it can bother you in beads is mostly concentrated near the surface.

That I don't know. That's an interesting question.

Like, if you like, like, well, I have similar beat disappointed problems. It's mainly with when they don't peel the freaking things right when they undercooked them or they don't peel them. That's when it's the biggest problem for us.

But like flavor wise, or texture was both.

Actually, I don't mind a crunchy beat. I like beets in vinegar. But I would guess that the vinegar in the same way that it helps make tilapia and that tastes like well, it's different, right? That's a TMac wasn't wherever it is. trimethylamine. Right with the beets and vinegar. Does the acid also knocked down the Jasmine or have you perceived the Jasmine less?

I mean, it's so pungent that it's possible. You're just not experiencing overwhelming other flavors much compared to acetic acid. But I mean, it's possible that it could like protonate something and then like reducing volatility. I would have to look this up and follow up with you on it.

Yeah, do that. Please. My favorite beat is the party hydrated roasted beat. Hmm. Nice. Those are good.

Yeah. I like those. Yeah, we had like a beat just kind of like that.

He I don't know who came up with that technique. I first had it there. He almost I first had it. Like four years ago or something like this. I know that a couple of people were doing it Mike Sharon was is the guy that made it first for me. I think ideas and food did people did it. You're not talking about that technique. Right? They're like soft and chewy. Yeah,

the chewy beats to be here. We had a dish like that for a while. It was super good. Yeah. Yeah. Delicious.

What kind of beats they grew up there. Do you have to have some local beat?

Yeah, they are local beats we get a little these like elongated beats.

Looking at mustaches face. What are her reaction to elongated beat 30 beats sounds interesting. She's just lying. She's making crap up. Alright. How do we talked about this? Why are we talking about this

app and wonder that myself

anyway, I forgot to call in your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 especially any questions you have about aroma chemistry and or cocktail bitters, chemistry and or MIT Media Lab shenanigans, or whatever else. Oh, speaking of which, shenanigans were going on Thursday to taste the waters at Saratoga. I'm excited about that. I've been reading a lot about the watch. So for those of you that don't know, Saratoga is a town in New York where the millionaire's used to go in the 1800s and it remained at very popular Spa Resort is one of the first spa resorts based on waters water in the United States, not the first as they claim not the first but one of the first and remain popular till very recently, it actually interesting didn't start necessarily as like a water cure as a hydro as a hydro, whatever they call apathy. Like that therapy. Yeah, didn't start as one of those. It started as just people believe in the curative nature of water. But it was started before the hardcore temperance movement, but like this part of those areas did get taken over by some temperance crews, but they had full booze and all that and then later horse racing and theoretically the end invented the potato chip and guess when we're there we should have some potato chips. Do you believe that garbage? They're like we invented the potato chip. That is freaking nonsense. That is nonsense. potatoes have been around so freakin long. You're telling me that nobody, anywhere in the rest of the frickin world was like, You know what would happen if I cut these freaking things then and then fried them until the water was gone? You think that some moron in freaking Saratoga was the first person to ever freaking do that?

A death of very much. I highly doubt that seems statistically improbable.

Yes. And another thing, speaking of the same thing, same thing, it's like, look, I here's what I can, here's it, I wish people would never attribute things to like things like that, that are just dishes to a particular error, particular time. What they should say instead is X, Y, or Z is popular because of X, Y, or Z. Right. So the potato chip became a thing in the United States because of what they did at Saratoga. Sure. Makes sense. Yeah, that seems viable.

That's a reasonable thing to say. And interesting. In and of itself. Boom.

Right? Like, here's another one. Arnold Palmer who just passed. just died. Do you like pasture just dead? That? That's the CSI like stars? Stars? Point? Yeah. Pat passed to what passed were passed. What passed the piece? He's dead, right? You're like anyway, so Arnold Palmer was like 87 died. And my wife pointed out that they asked me once about the Arnold Palmer for 3030 What's it called? 30 for 30 the ESPN thing 30 for 30. Anyway, I was like he clearly person to ask about sports. Yeah, me too cute. Clearly not the first person to mix iced tea and lemonade. Like clearly, these are two beverages that you see next to each other on a kind of on a constant basis. It's not alcoholic, like nailing if

you if you put like lemon into sweet tea or already, like 60% of the way there.

You are absolutely correct. And like, and if you have ever been to the south like sweet tea, like coming out your friggin ears, you know what I mean? Like that stuff?

Um, there's a time and a place for it to stuff. But then

then lemonade, and then like, you know, whatever. Yeah, but undoubtedly people drink a lot of it now because of Arnold Palmer, which is a more interesting story.

Thank you for that Arnold Palmer.

Yes, thank you for that. I don't know anything about golf. Would you do? Would you ever play golf necessity? Okay, I'm with you on this, but what is it that you don't like about the golf waiting for people? So you're already assuming that you're going to be faster than everyone else? And I don't like mini golf. So I think okay, look, mini golf is an entirely different thing. Like mini golf like waiting for people you typically can't drink during mini golf either. Really? Not that I know of. So you're saying this isn't kid friendly. So you're saying this is a niche that has not been filled? The adult mini golf. I'm like you might be onto something book or index. I mean, I don't know the I don't know the only mini golf that you know, the last time I saw Mini Golf was on Billy Madison. And he definitely looked like he was drinking when he was beating crap. Okay, let's take some questions here. Hello, Cookie issue squad. Is there an ideal way to cook long grain rice and adding we didn't get any follow up from them right on from Quinn on the rice stuff so I'm going to do the best I can. Is there any ideal way to cook long grain rice so the texture doesn't turn out so clumpy or mushy? I'm aiming for something light and fluffy. So that's the thing everyone's aiming for light and fluffy no one's ever like I want to make I want to make a condom of paces soccer and it turned into a paste but maybe they should want to you like pay Alec a race pace. I

like a good country.

I love a kanji well you wouldn't use that race but no but I like but also remember like long grain like lab Rima, like collaborative and style. It's not really needs its own variety of rice, but like they break easily. So there used to be a whole cuisine based on broke rice. You know, and like the idea of the broken rice grain is nuts. You like light and fluffy though, right stars? Yeah. Do you do like, I know that your favorite is like Italian style rice, right? Isn't that but like, what's your favorite? How do you like your rice best? light and fluffy. But like white like white? White?

Make it like just plasmon plain.

You like Jasmine, I love Jasmine. Can I ask what is Italian style rice risotto? Oh. When you have regular white rice does it need to be like as hard in the center as you'd like it was Oh, no. So you just like playing like rice cooker? Do you have a rice cooker? No, I haven't had an affair rice. I use my bathtub as a rice cooker but it only holds one cup. Alright. I remember something light and fluffy with the grains intact. I follow a standard procedure for washing the rice multiple times. By the way that never freakin works. You know what I mean? It's like

people shouldn't like so much starch. You're going to leech off the surface testify never works.

Never works. Here's how it works. Here's the thing, right? Rick? Just people who write recipes for cooking rice shouldn't tell people like me to rinse it until the rice runs. The water runs clear because you know what the water never ever does. It never runs clear. Never, never, like you should just say rinse it three times. Yeah, like you know blob you don't I mean it's like unless you own a stream and you can suspend the rice in a flowing freakin stream rinsing it till it goes clear makes no freaking sense at all. That's what your new refrigerator should do rinse my rice for me in a stream in a stream. What's what's the what's the Japanese name for the prereq the no rinse rice musi Luzi mess? I don't know. Anyway, I never used it. Why would I pay extra I know how to rinse. You know obsessively and methodically. I don't live in California where every drop of water is a precious gift from the from the heavens. You can use in my music my There you go. Dave with the rice knowledge dropping it. I follow the standard procedure of washing the rice multiple times followed by soaking it for 15 to 30 minutes, then drain and add freshwater to a 1.5 to one ratio of water to Rice by the way, the ratio of water to Rice everyone gives water to Rice ratios but it's entirely dependent on the evaporation rate that you get out of it because you're never cooking your rice in 100% sealed vessel. Yeah, I've run some tests many years ago I don't remember what the results were

unless you're washing cooking earthen pressure cooker.

Even so yes. Or in the the best way to do it would be and I think someone did this I forget whether it was America's test kits or so he did it into the bags, okay. In retort bags. You could do it that way. I know Stassi and I ran a series of tests years ago but they were kind of inconclusive on sealed beam cookery I was trying to do I was trying to you know, you know beans hype, say beans in a bottle in time. It's like fescue layers and like this You remember I say bottle Italian no federally fiasco or something like that. Federally if you ask him, I don't know. That sounds plausible. Anyway, anyway, it's like you stick the beans in a bottle. You familiar with this and you add the water and you just put a little olive oil into it. And you throw in a couple of herbs and you just throw the put the bottle in the oven uncapped and then it just like absorbs the the and then you shake the beans out of the bottle. And so basically it's just a method to a cook the beans very slowly. And beans a B B's now got channeling Cesare Casella, bees reduce the amount of liquid that's evaporating out of the product while it's while it's cooking so that we can be more anyway. So I was trying to do different various ways of doing it I never got I never got it perfect. It that culminated in a test I ran where I did pressure cooker, I'm making quote marks with my fingers that you can't see over the air. But where I did pressure cook beans directly in an ISI whip or with a blowtorch, like super not safe. Somebody that has fasciae I shoved a thermometer into the top of an ISI and then like blow torch gate, and then

like what's the pressure rating for that safety valve? Hi, okay.

You know what I mean? Like I forget how I forgot,

like multiple times what a pressure cooker can take.

Oh, yeah, we we cooked beans from dry in like I want to say like five minutes. Right? It was like stupid. It was dumb. I think I should go back and look at the video we did it for. We did it for First we feast. I was making nachos at someone's desk. Oh yeah, from scratch. And for me from scratch means we start with dry beans. So we started with dry beans for the refried beans and just blowtorch to thing but looking back like even like recommending to someone that we do that was like a really terrible, terrible idea. They tasted they tasted good taste. If I even the Stasi said it tasted fine. Remember the look on the guy's face? Yes. There's a guy next to us the guy. Okay. So like when they were shooting it to do next to us. They want Him to keep working like it was normal workday. And I'm sitting here like, I turned him on like, Hey, this is probably not going to explode. And I start blow torching the steel container. And he was like, what? And we started dumping liquid nitrogen on the desk like behind it making the margaritas he hated us. Yes, like I hated us. Anyway. So back to this thing 1.5 to one ratio, there is no such thing as 100% ratio. What there is, is if you use 1.5 to one on a particular style of rice, odds are that that particular style of rice is going to have similar rates of the longer something cooks right probably I'm guessing well that's not necessarily do you add more to brown rice than to white rice. Trying to look I'm trying to see in my head the water levels for the cups on the side of my rice cooker. But anyway, I would guess that the longer rice cooks the more water you need to add because of the increased evaporation also, the wider your pan the more water you have to add for a given amount of rice because the more surface area and therefore the more evaporation because your typical pot is not actually sealed. And in fact here's another lie people tell you constantly that I've kind of said on the on the air bunch of times, but anyone that thinks you're generating any pressure on the inside of a pot is sorely mistaken, unless it is completely sealed because even one half psi have overpressure on the inside of a pot that's eight inches across, right? Let's say your pots only eight inches across. So half of eight is 444 squared 16. Right, so that's r squared, and then pi six, this eight times three, eight is 48. Ish. So 48 and a half divided by 224 24. So about 24 pounds is pushing up out of an eight inch pot. That is, that is not sealed at mere half psi.

Right? There's a lot of weight. Yeah, most people's lids don't weigh 24 pounds. That's right.

So you'd need a perfect ceiling and you'd need a 24 pound sack of garbage on top of your pot to get a mere half psi of overpressure. But it is true that you are vastly reducing evaporation by covering it vastly reducing evaporation, but you're not stopping it by any means just

just by surface area. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Correct. So anyway, so 1.5 to one is like, you can't go based on like a ratio like that. Let me get back to the question because my phone decided I was done. Okay. The cooks surface is nice and pretty fluffy. But as I get closer to the bottom, it gets more or less clumpy and mushy. Is it a matter of changing the ratio or the soaking time? I forgot to say they soaked by 15 to 30 minutes? Or are there other variables at work, such as the age of the rice or humidity levels? Ultimately, I'd like to use it for making delicious fried rice. Any helpful tips or suggestions would be most appreciated. All right, look, if you want to make fried rice, right, I almost don't care if some of this stuff's broken for fried rice. You know what I mean? Or a little mushy, but you might want to consider if you're gonna say what type of rice you're using, you might want to know one Does anyone do like fried rice with like a basmati style?

British someone must, but we

taste good. No, too thin, too thin.

I mean, I suppose once you like, cool it and then fry it, it could, like the texture would be not as good maybe,

right? I mean, the problem was something like let's say, like, like Anastasia, the kind of the rice of choice in my house is jasmine rice, because I enjoy the smell. Right? Yeah, the problem with jasmine rice in general, for this kind of style of cooking that that we're discussing here pot cooking, is that it has it It's long, it's longer grain. So it but it also is stickier right than a lot of other long grain varieties of rice. And so it tends to have this problem of having some of the grains at the bottom be much easier when the top is perfect, right? And also, I don't think jasmine rice is going to respond. Well, I don't know, I haven't tested it. But I don't think it's going to respond well to the technique you would use for basmati rice, which would be boil it in copious water, drain it just before it's done, and then let it steam out. You can if you're really worried about it, you can do a like a half and half or you do a partial absorption cooking of your rice and then steam it to completion. And that will that will cause the bottoms to not get mushed out. Well

I was thinking I mean, maybe this is a stupid question. But why not just steam all of it.

You can jasmine rice can be steamed if you're going to steamed jasmine rice, right? You need to go thinner on your layer and wide. So like that'd be another thing. I think like in general, I said this last week, I think that in general, I think what you're you're going to minimize textural difference between the bottom and the top of the rice simply by not having the layer be so thick, but you're always going to have a tendency for the bottom rice to absorb more waters because it's in contact with water longer. So the top is essentially steaming while the bottom is essentially done. So yeah, like I said like one thing you could do if you want to have partial absorption cooking because it's faster, right? Is you could you could so there's always water above the surface of your rice when you start cooking. Yeah, so you could in essence lift it slightly so it's off the bottom Yeah, so that it cooks down and then it's not touching the server really cute kid looking at our window so it's not touching the bottom of the rice when it starts to steam that steams the rest of the right so you

need like a pot with a false bottom that lets you boil for a certain amount of time and then when the water level gets low enough yeah activates something here but

a lot of this also like you could probably do the you know that what a lot of people do is they'll towards the quotes and they'll open it fluff the rice I eaten a little bit close it and let it equalize and steam out for the last little bit because of

that stuff that was on the bottom is now at the top now. Steaming now

steaming And then they finish it out that way. So that's that's always to do it. But while I was researching this, I looked at a couple of interesting papers. One is called the formation of cracks and rice during wedding. And he's looking at which has a bunch of extra stuff. But unfortunately that one I couldn't like, copy and paste into take a look at it. But that so it turns out that you couldn't access the full Yeah, paper. Yes, you can. So you don't even need to pay for it. It's there on the on the interwebs. And the interesting thing is, is that, so pre soaking the rice, it's not it, what happens is, is that the surface of the rice cracks, like fairly soon after you start soaking it. And so it's those cracks that allow water to get in like really, really quickly. And therefore, even a small soaking time can drastically decrease the amount of time it takes to get water in to make it taste cooked. Anyway. Then there's another piece though, that I read and it wasn't cited a lot. So I don't know whether people agree with it. But this is interesting. It's called The Man mentioned this last week. I don't know if anyone looked it up. But I didn't talk about the impact of pre soaking on flavor of cooked rice by et champagne, and kale bet Garber. This is in was printed. I don't have the data on me. But anyway, you can look it up. And they did it. They did it as part of the ARS Research Center in New Orleans, which is maybe where the rice is, maybe that's where we keep our rice cultures. ARS is the USDA Yeah, so anyway, so I mean, that'll make sense. So it should be real right? I will just read the beginning. Soaking rice and water for 30 minutes or longer before cooking is traditionally practiced in Japan, Korea and other Asian countries this paper is going to piss Japanese people off like this them because they're so hyped up on like this specific techniques that they use, you know what I mean? That like anyway, so Anyway, check this out. When soaked, the rice grains hydrate, develop cracks and water is absorbed. Soaking facilitates uniform cooking and shortens cooking time. This is why a lot of times when we say we do it right because Because water absorbs in faster you're not going to have a hard center of the grain and a mushy outside and and also it shortens the cooking time for those of you that are interested in shortening cooking time. But of course, shortening the cooking time is no big deal because you're increasing the freaking soaking time. Hello. And a lot of people have run tests on things like cooking time versus soaking time on beans. Obviously it's much faster pasta faster. Everything pre pre soaking makes it faster. Okay. The cooked Colonel after soaking is usually less firm, I guess. I guess they mean when it's done. The present study was undertaken to determine the effects of pre soaking on the flavor of cooked rice. And whether the flavor differences are associated with textural changes that can influence the retention of aroma compounds. Since may be interesting to you. 11 samples of short medium and long grain milled rice representing scented and non scented rice and a wide range range of amylose contents were presented to a descriptive sensory panel for the set of all rice samples undesirable breakfast and Stacia undesirable sewer slash animal flavor significantly increased and sweet tastes significantly dink decreased with pre soaking for 30 minutes similar flavor Were you familiar with that defecting rice animal slash super flavor