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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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I'm David volti. Host of the speakeasy you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, if you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from a little bit even later than normal around 1215. Today, up to around 1245 Lucky you know one o'clock, from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn. joined as usual witness dassia Hammer Lopez Hey, do Anastasia head so actually Anastasia? I went on an adventure last week, which we'll see if we have time to talk about our our adventure to the great town of Saratoga Springs. We have two guests in the studio with us today. We have kitchen appliance engineer goes up kowski How you doing? Good afternoon. Yeah. And we have the reigning current Crown Prince of the Museum of food and drink. Peter can

here to spread hate and vacate.

Yeah. What kind of vacate number two?

That's actually a rite of line from exhibit. I don't know if you remember that.

I remember. Yeah. But yeah. With the spelling acts. Yeah. Good. Strength. We got Dave in the booth. What up? How you doing? Good. Speaking of Dave in the booth, so a number of months ago Nastasia and I along Carlos and that to write in the one we did for Johnnie Walker. Dave?

Oh, I wasn't here that day. So I'm not sure yeah, we do have the episode. Yeah,

so we taped a while I gotta admit, it was like a show thing. Like we were like, they were like, Hey, will you do this episode for this new Johnnie Walker product? And we're like, okay, but anyway, we actually take the full on episode and if you don't like the wine episode, you shouldn't go to this one but we're going to tweet out as the last of Anastasia and mais contractual tweet and Instagrams we will send out a link like this not in our normal cooking issues feed to a cooking issues episode where we talked to the rare the rare beast unfortunately in the in the spirits world but the the female master blender, which is which is awesome. You know what I mean? Need more of that in that the industry needs to shift to a more gender parity situation. What balance balance Yeah. Balance. All right, well, how are we gonna start here? Peter? Why don't you? Why don't you before before you just start throwing your hate and your vacate? Why don't you just? Why don't you drop your drop your plug knowledge for the museum food and drink?

Oh, yeah. So we are working right now on child the making of Chinese American cuisine. And basically, yeah, you've got this situation where

they no I don't think we've talked about because you haven't talked about on there. What? Why explain what the exhibit is? Yeah, I'm

explaining these events. All right,

geez. So you ask them for money. Why don't you at least to tell them?

Yeah, so. So you've got a situation where you've got over 50,000 Chinese restaurants in the US. They're all over. It looks like I grew up in the Midwest, right? Okay, middle of nowhere Danville, Illinois. Well, what

are you selling selling on your on your?

That's true. I mean, so anyway, we were one of the only Asian families in the town. And when we wanted to, you know, like, I grew up eating like meatloaf, and like green bean casserole, but also like, you know, dried squid, and other Korean stuff. But when we want to go out to eat,

dried squid would be nice in the green bean casserole.

So when we want to go out to eat, and we wanted to eat something that wasn't like Olive Garden, it was a Chinese restaurant. And, and I think, you know, it's really the only option for going out to eat to have something that was like, you know, quote, unquote, ethnic. And so if that's actually the case, in a lot of parts of the country, yeah.

Asian version of the Christmas story. Yeah, basically, right.

And so you have this like, situation where these restaurants are all around the country. They're all sort of they're all run by Chinese immigrant families. They're serving a menu that I think we all know, is not a lot like food in China. And it's one of these things, it's become just such a central part of American culture. And so what's the you know, I guess? It's a sort of curious situation, we want to know, you know, what the story is behind that. And it turns out there is over 100, there are over 150 years of history behind this cuisine. And so we're going to tell the story of that with the exhibition.

All right, so like to boil that down into like, 30 seconds, the number how many restaurants roughly over 50, though, that's like three times the number of McDonald's, right? Yeah. So there's many more. In fact, there's more Chinese restaurants in the US than Burger King McDonald's and Wendy's combined, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course, because there's more McDonald's than any of those other ones. And there's three times as many McDonald's so clearly more. The other thing I think it's really interesting is we kind of take this thing for we take Chinese food for granted Chinese American food, even though it's weird that you have this kind of ubiquitous and kind of monolithic cuisine. I'm not talking about like the new fancy stuff that like you know, we're not talking about your like your Dami violins or anything like that. We're talking about like old school Chinese American cuisine. How How did this happen that we have a cuisine that is neither cooked by the those the people who are make so people who own the Chinese restaurant, the reason immigrants is us put it normally not, although some of them three, four generations have been having these challenges, especially somebody older, more important ones. But they don't cook this food at home. Right for their family, typically, typically. And yet, yet here it exists. It's almost like a synthesized cuisine. It's super interesting, unlike Italian American cuisine, right? Where Italian Americans actually cook that stuff at home. Everybody knows. Yeah. Yeah, you know, a pom pom anyway. But like that, but the point is, like that style of food exists as a living home cuisine and as a restaurant cuisine.

Yeah. And it's not just that, but it's like everything around the menu, too. You've got the whole sort of format of the meal. You've got the takeout box, you have fortune cookies, you got sauce packets, you've got like the aesthetic.

And yeah, we're not gonna we're not going to win.

I mean, my point is like, it's this whole thing that got developed and like, Yeah, I mean, it's just sort of like this crazy story behind

it. Yeah. So the thing is, how'd that happen? That's, that's what this that's what the exhibits about Yeah. How did this happen? Yeah. I mean, and it's, it's going to be tied into the launch of our non brick and mortar based web presence as well. Right?

Yeah. So we're gonna have a beautiful menu collection gonna have tastings, which is gonna be a first for us actual food, putting the food back in the Museum of food and drink. Yeah. And then

Peters like, there's still be pellets. Don't worry, for all of you pelletize people out there, there will still be pellets. And we're going to keep this thing machines go through

some of the machines. Yeah. And I saw that in the chat room. Somebody had a problem with it last time with it or something like popcorn, pyrazine, whatever, but we fix that. So sorry about that.

Yes, like sometimes those valves are literally there's just like a little valve. Listen, thank God, it wasn't the butyric acid. The cheesy vomit. Yeah, but my point is, is that sometimes those valves get stuck open a little bit and so we probably need to open and reseal the valves and to stop them from actually the valves when they're going wrong. Make a kind of a white noise. Like a little, little mini that's what I was going for little to Noise Yeah,

well anyway, so we have a Kickstarter going for tau right now. And, you know, when you back the campaign, you get tickets to we're going to have a weekend opening for two days. It's going to be on the fourth and the fifth of November.

Like for eating not like Ciao.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Ciao. Ciao bella. Yeah,

so not like that. Not like that. Like Ciao. Like,

I should make an ice cream called ciao bella. Like ch O W.

Well, interestingly something you'll learn if you show up at the exhibit. Is there used to be a a chop suey Sunday. Yeah, right. That was that was basically just packed up little pieces of dried fruit on top of the ice cream. And I have to say that sounds pretty good. You need to bring that one back. Yeah, the Stasi. What's your feelings on chewy things on your ice cream? That sounds good that gummy bears? Well, not that chewy. But yeah, like of that order. But in other words, like in general, like typically for me on an ice cream. I prefer things that like pop and break rather than things that too.

What about What about like Chendol or like Southeast Asian ice deserts? Noodles love that man.

I can deal. I'm not I'm never like, I can deal I can enjoy something like that. Or like for instance, Bochy, I love mochi

oh that's to eat ice cream

all right, that's fair, but it's like a thing but like like a big like, like a big like graded ice thing with like the with like the cream and stuff and beans. I like it. I like it. I like it. I enjoy having them. But I'm never like, hey, you know what I'm gonna go out and get right now do you know what really fix me up right now that

right for you? We'd actually be a half a great food and a block of cheese.

Five and a half grapefruits. I really people out there. I really

don't know what the what the thing that he is saying. I really really

like great foods. You ever wake up in the morning? You're like, I need grapefruit. And then we have a few. I love jelly like grapes.

But anyway, let me just get this out. Well, it's

strangely like a lot of the ones you buy are incredibly poor quality like this. Like it's like it's not violently like nauseating the way that a bad pistachio is. But when you buy the way the way I eat grapefruit, I don't do that. Like, you know, I don't do that like American 50s thing, cutting them in half and stuff. I just peel them and eat them. But like my point is, is that like there's something very, like just so disappointing about a bad grapefruit, the one where it's just thin. There's no sweetness, all acid, slightly bitter, too much pith. Just so disappointing,

especially the ones that are not like juicy when they get dry.

Oh my god. Oh my god. And you can see that the segment's kind of break apart. Yeah. And he's looking at it. And you're so sad. First of all, you paid two bucks for that thing. You know what I mean? And then you and, and, you know, you're reasonably smart person, right? I hope we're all reasonably smart people. So when you pick up the grapefruit, you're picking one that's not too spongy. Right? I mean, you know, look, bearing in mind that you know, whether it's a California or a Florida grapefruit, so you know what the fundamental skin thickness should be. You're trying to have the fruit itself to see whether or not it contains enough water and make that judgment. You make that judgment and you get home and when you still have garbage, like with all of the thinking and $2 later, it's just so disappointing. I hate it. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead.

Yeah, so go to chow.mo fed.org tau is spelled ch O W not the Italian way. And our Kickstarter, Kickstarter, you can get tickets to the private opening of the exhibition, and they will be there I'll be there will be Yes, exactly. And we'll have some fun surprises for people there and then you get membership to the museum and you get to help us out with building like so. So yeah, go to tell them if I don't

know so and now you can just be hate filled. Emperor Peter from here on. Out. Yeah, Peter and I almost always only talk to each other in Emperor Palpatine voice

Yeah. which sometimes can feed into like, stereotypical Jewish grandmother.

Wow. I never really thought about it could do that for me. I'm not gonna pick out this fine. If you feel it. If you feel it later in the show. You can you can do it. Yeah, but I mean, I'm not I don't want to. That's like a lot to put you on the spot. Yeah. So you know. So Joe, what do you what are you working on now?

So I'm just here to support cooking issues.

Oh, come on. You gotta if you're on the show. You got to like give us like, what are you working on anything? You can talk about? Nothing. I can talk I have to kill you. Well, I'm sure many people would manage many many many men wished upon me to bring out is was that was a you know that song many men wished upon me. Many many men. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But you see, we got to call it go. Yes. Do it. Oh, by the way, a call In your appliance design related questions to Joe's a kowski? Well, I

believe this is subida related. And here we go. I don't know how to do that.

Caller. You. Hello, hey.

Yeah. First question. I just sent the recipe. I ended the hair with radio email address, it's prepared to cram. It's basically a homemade chocolate pudding. Right. But the recipe is it how to do it without using the Suvi machine. And that is needed your best guess for a time and tempt to do it. Suvi because while it comes out great, the start standing there in spring for at least 20 minutes. Is it just more than a pain?

Yeah. So I mean, I don't have the recipe in front of me because it's on the computer. But most of those set clusters are in the 80s range Celsius. Like, so like, for instance, like when I'm doing so, it depends on how much stuff you have in it, right? Like it all depends on the solids ratio. But something that's very liquidy that you don't want to set like a Kremlin glaze, I'll do it like at two Celsius, but that that'll only be for like 15 minutes. And if you were to rock that that way, for an hour, it wouldn't quite set but it'd be close to set. No, but you're going to have a much higher egg ratio probably in in your custard. And so I would guess my guess is you're going to want to be somewhere around 85. See, and if it's in a small ramekin situation, I'm assuming when you mean severe, you mean like in a combi oven, like in a ramekin that you're in a steam oven, which by the way I hear. I hear who was it? I think Cuisinart makes a countertop steam oven. Now that is correct. Yeah. And I hear it's pretty good. It's great. Hello, temperature Joe can now go to do you know, it can prove it can prove. So if you had one of those, you could probably steam set a low temperature program, and I would hit it in the 85 C range. And depending on how thick it is, usually I'm doing them in relatively thin ramekins. I would probably go on the order of half hour to 40 minutes. But God actually have you done that recipe and one of those ovens I have not maybe we can find out a recipe and get back to you. You know John Dara gone formerly of please don't tell the bar has one of those Cuisinart ovens and he was going off on how it was the you know, the greatest thing that's ever happened to him. You know what the MSRP on those things is? Roughly

150 as cheap as cheap. That's my best guess.

What do you feel it on the side? Like a coffeemaker? How do you put the water into it? It just comes with an infinite amount of water? Yeah, yeah, sure. Anyway, all right. So is this answering your question, I hope?

Well, that's, that's pretty good. Pretty clear for that first question. And then I have a completely separate second question already. Also Sumi related. I'm working on a recipe to do a pork roast with pork and cranberry Suvi. And the first try I made that I didn't quite use enough salt and it just wasn't really, really tasty. And I also didn't pre brown it. The second time I used what was clearly too much salt but I also brown the heck out of four I put it in the bag. And they got that Porky tastes like that sort of unpleasant Porky hint,

right now. Are you vacuuming it? Are you zip locking it? Vacuuming it? Because I would usually that Porky taste usually is a fat breakdown oxidation kind of a situation so I would have assumed that a vacuum bag would take care of that. Unless How do you how'd you? How'd you brown it?

Well, I just I just I haven't. I've had my baking still parked in my grill for forever. So I just got that as hard as it would get him hit it on and off for the major sides.

That's unusual. I would guess usually what's considered not pleasant animal flavors come from fat oxidation. And typically, I mean, I and you did a hardback on it. It was a hard vacuum.

It's a FoodSaver Yeah, I

mean, that should be enough to get rid of enough I mean like that would be my guess. I don't know maybe someone in the chat room Dave can has any sort of stuff on this happening like how were the cranberries Did you precooked the cranberries or were using dried cranberries?

No, I just I was so I put salt and pepper on it. Let it sit for a day or two. Vacuum, vacuum down for that. And then I opened it up. Brush whatever thought was with on the outside was basically that all absorbed and put it rounded and put it in In a fresh bag with supporting cranberries

Oh, but, but the cranberries were pre cooked. And now the cranberries were dried.

You know how they make those dried cranberries they squish the cranberry juice out of them and then they use the skins. And then they mix the skins with a boatload of sugar. Well, I mean, I don't mind them I love them. I'm just like saying like that's how they make them. They've always curious Yeah.

really worked for several recipes we we cook with. I mean, I realized they're not really helped food.

I don't really care about you. I'm not a health food kind of a guy. I'm just saying I think it's kind of it's like it's it's like one of those actually, I think it's genius. These guys took what is fundamentally a byproduct and they turned it into something that I'm you know, I enjoy eating. My kids enjoy eating that's even rarer. You know what I mean? And I think they are useful in restaurants.

I understand picky children. Yeah, well, the picky children.

The other thing about those if you were to use, even if you were to actually dehydrate your own cranberries, which by the way, like I've never tried to eat one of my Christmas strings before but like Peter ever eaten one of your Christmas strings when you were a kid to do the cranberries and popcorn, and Stassi Did you cranberries and popcorn your kid? No. No, you guys Dave never heard of it. Never, never, never ever took a needle and thread and popcorn and cranberries. Yeah. Anyway, this stuff when it's leftover is like worse than worse. I don't know. Anyway, the point is, is that the dried skins are good because they don't get all big and nasty. And what are your guys thoughts on inflated raisins and stews? Love, love. When I was a kid, I was freaked out by him because my mom had put the raisins into the stew. And then I was like, oh, raisins. I understand what a raisin is. And then it came out as a half grape. It wasn't like fully a grape anymore. But it wasn't a raisin anymore. I was like, ah, ah, and so like my whole life like I've learned to like because they taste good. Like just like, like, strictly speaking, they taste good. And so like. Anyway, we're another weird mental problem. I have I guess you know what I mean? You never had something shock you when you were a kid and it sticks with you for years. That's like, I feel like that's anastasius whole life.

I never liked chocolate milk because I have this memory in elementary school had being spilled like everywhere on the lunchroom table and being grossed out by that by you. Did you spill it? No, it wasn't my fault.

And you still remember that to this day, huh? Yeah, just like pulling in the lunch tray. Like, that's nasty. I can remember fighting realm pool. I can remember biting into a cream filled donut that was moldy. And that I wasn't able to eat cream filling for almost a decade. It was very small. But I still remember I remember where I was. I was I was in a waiting room next to the truck full of nuts at the 160/8 Street, Columbia Presbyterian Hospital WalMart where my mom had gotten me something to eat while she was going to go do something for her internship. And I just remember sitting at this frigging chair at 168th street and biting into this freaking moldy. Just horrifying.

As you know, I don't really care about there being mold on

my flat. So yeah, he loves it. I can remember my mom frying parsnip chips upstairs for some holiday and I I was violently ill at the time and associating the smell of frying parsnips, with throwing up and I still to this day, like a lot of veggie chips. I'm like, man, thanks. Thank you. You don't I mean, it's like they taste good. But it's still got that kind of violent association with them. Again, this is Miss dassies whole life though. Like she'll associate whole cities with hanging out with a person she didn't like. I mean, I'm talking to as an adult. I'm not talking about as a cannibalization. Cool. Yeah. Whole. Yeah. whole, like, you know, there's a billion I need to go into more detail here. There's a billion of you out there. If she met one of you, and had a bad time. You're all you're all painted with the same brush. That's That's

why not just the billion that exists now. But the billions that have existed before them as

well, and the future billions and the future is, yeah, yeah, very strong. Anyway. So back to this question. I don't know what's causing the pork Enos, my assumption is that maybe you had a piece of pork with more fat, it was already slightly oxidized before it went into the bag. I have also done stocks. And sometimes they come out more or less Porky. But I don't know whether it's having to do with the actual characteristics of the meat that went in, I think you're you're protecting it as well as you can by backing it. You want to chill it and vac it as soon as you can. I mean, what I typically do, what I used to do when I wanted to VAC something right after a sear down was I would put the I would sear it, throw it into a bag, and then immerse that bag unsealed in ice water to chill down the meat. And then I would then you could seal it really quickly. Another thing is, is you might want to consider, I mean, if it's a recurring thing, then it's clearly just you're getting some sort of reaction where just the initial SEER maybe the seer was at maybe Even I hate to say it for too high a temperature and you're getting some off flavors from it, you could do it on syrupy, it's gonna have to put a hard sear on afterwards. And when you do it that way, you know, you're not going to get any oxidation from the initial sear down. So typically remember, especially for things like beef, or things like short ribs, which is beef, I would recommend the only one I've never say never to sear beforehand is duck breasts never never see the duck breasts beforehand, because it you need it to stay flat so that you can crisp it up in the pan later. But I would say always see your afterwards. Always sure afterwards, there

was always part of part of the plan that was trying to get put pressure on to and you get more flavor, but actually in the meat.

That's true. I'm a firm believer in that because but the thing is, is it may be this may be the seer, so I don't know. I don't have like, which which kind of pork was it? Shoulder Yeah,

that's bone in shoulder.

So you know, I haven't done I haven't done a lot of whole bone in shoulder. I've done some, but I'm doing them I was doing those things mainly more like, like, imitating like pulled pork or coffee of just salted like not like heavy seared because I would leave skin on and then crisp up the skin afterwards so that more of like or more kalua pig kind of a presentation of the shoulder. So I haven't had a lot where I do like a hard sear all the way around, it might be that just long storage in the bag is with that initial sear is is caused causing it to happen. You know what I used to do that I don't do anymore. I used to when I was I would trim all the meat that I was going to finally have with my portion. And then I would roast all the trim, just roast the hell out of all the trim. And then throw the trim in the bag to get the transfer of brown trim pre cook flavor into the meat as it was going on on long cooks. But as I get older, I get lazier. So

I'm planning to do this recipe for like, a 4050 person party. So I was trying to make it as streamlined as possible.

Yeah, I mean, look, the good news about a shoulder is that it can stand a good bit of crisping on the on the you're serving at home or you're shredding your your What are you doing? You're, you're gonna pull the piece of skin on.

Okay, so what I'm, what I'm planning to do is get scan on crooked hole, brown and hole and then and then shred it. Okay, so you get so you get the little shredded bits mixed in with the rest of the pool meat.

Yeah. Okay. So if you're gonna pull it, people like a little bit of texture or textural variation, and I would say to streamline this make your life easier, I would just get your salt levels, right. And then I would, especially if you're going to have the skin on it, because the skin is going to pull and get all wonky, you have a lot of fat there. And there's a lot of fat there that is relatively soft and prone to oxidation in this game side of the skin there. So I would I would cook it whole without searing it and then I would pull it and I would do a hard sear at the finish because that's going to crisp up the cracklings, you need a certain amount of time afterwards, even if you've pre stared you need a certain amount of time to crisp the crackling up on the outside that you're going to shred into it. And you might you might it's gonna be more predictable. So like even if it's an effect where sometimes you see it beforehand, and you get the Porky taste, and sometimes you don't if it's a if it's a piece of meat specific kind of a situation. You know, you can't predict it beforehand. The worst thing is to have it not tasted what you want when you pull it out of the bag. Do you know what I'm saying? Trust me I do at the event. So I would just do one more without it and then try like a slightly slower like, like render crisp sear on the on the pullout? Almost like CBT for insurance.

It's likely to be more predictable if I don't pre suit. Yes. Got it. That's well that's that's also less work. So that's great. All right,

let us know how it works out. Thanks, Dave. We'll take a quick break. Yeah, we can do that. Let's take a quick break come back with more cooking issues.

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So you can focus on sides and sauces, or just pour yourself a cocktail and chill until you're ready for a delicious dinner. For more information and to order yours now visit chefsteps.com/joul II. And we're back. So I got some reaction for one of the shows. earlier. Andrew writes in regarding my saying that I don't like sweet tea, saying I don't like sweet tea. Does that mean okay? Anyway, he says, a couple of weeks ago I wrote in about trying to get a honey flavor in a lavender cocktail. I took your advice, and it's been we've been working on perfecting my cocktail. I'll update you on how it's going pretty soon. My issue today refers to something that Dave said on the show. While discussing sweet tea. He said, I hate that stuff. Dave, I understand that you have years of experience in food and technology. I know your palate must be outstanding on or at least it's mine. Your knowledge is obviously immense. But how can I a child of North Carolina who by weight has consumed more sweet tea than flour and water combined? Trust you. I'm just curious what your issue with sweet tea is? Do you dislike cold tea? Is it too sweet? Have you had a bitter glass that turns you off on it? What about cocktails? What about in cocktails or desserts? I also like to use tea flavor in meat marinade. Occasionally, I get it. There's bad sweet tea, but please help me change your mind. I'll do whatever I can all the best, Andrew. All right. Here's what I don't like Andrew like, I have no problem with cold. I like cold tea. I like cold tea with a modicum of sugar. I think the issue is is that like, let's say I was going to North Carolina barbecue joint Eastern, of course, because I don't put tomato in my in my pork, whatever. Anyway, I'm not gonna get off. I don't want to get you upset because I don't know where in North Carolina you're from. But the stuff that I enjoy the most I enjoy all North Carolina barbecue, which is of course, pork. And of course, with thin sauce, vinegar bass, I enjoy it all. But I enjoy mostly the more coastal variety that is fundamentally just like pepper, vinegar, and meat. Like that's like my style. Now, if you're going to go to one of those kind of restaurants in Raleigh, or wherever you're gonna go, and they have those, kind of I'm looking at them right now those kind of amber colored plastic, pebbly glasses, everyone knows what I'm talking about right with those things. And they have a jug of what is amounts to simple syrup with tea in it. And they pour it and there's not even any acid because some of these places will not I know, I know. I know that some of these places won't put it like lemon, even like next to it or with it. And you're just consuming simple syrup tea. I'm like, because because I am a thirsty man. I am a thirsty man. Like that is something that I could enjoy. Like Take for instance, I like overly sweet mint tea, like, like Moroccan style or like, you know, like, you know, in Paris, they have those, uh, like those Moroccan tea, mint tea joints, Peter, you like those? He's a he's shaking his head as though you can see his head shake on a microphone. But like the point being that I like sweet tea things in tiny amounts, like, same way that I like sweet beverages in tiny amounts. That's why cocktails, which are relatively small, can have some sugar in them without freaking me out. But when I am thirsty, I want to pound huge quantity huge Trump style quantities of liquids. And so I require them to be not sweet, so I use tea that's a lot lower on sugar. I'm okay with I like it with a little limited. That's just me, so it's not I should say. It's not the idea of cold tea that I have a problem with. It's overly overly sweet tea. Joe, what are your feelings on this? I agree with you. I don't like it too sweet either. But do you find that a lot of places will serve it too sweet. Way too sweet. Way too sweet. Too much sugar too much. Too much freaking sugar. Too much sugar. It's not good for you. Why don't we have any like I said, I said before my health you know? I just don't like it. That's my thing. What are the stats? Do you do you like? Cold? You like iced tea? No, not really. Wow. Well, Andrew can hate on you. It's alright, but what do you not like about it? I just don't prefer it. Drinking it. I don't prefer drinking. Yeah, what does that mean? Like? I wouldn't choose it. Like over nothing? over nothing. Sure. I'll drink it. All right, Peter, sweetie. That really my jam. Deep but like I can appreciate Andrews position here as a cultural thing. Sure. Yeah. But you know when I when I you know. Not too sweet. That's all Yeah, you like okay, whatever. You guys are the worst. Brandon writes in Hi, Anastasia. Follow up. I sent my last email before listening to the episode that I shouldn't have read that because you don't know what he's talking about. Something to add to discussion about tropical tasting fruits that grow in time. region so this is what we were talking about the May apple which is the jelly I make were actually that jelly was delicious. I bring the jelly in or just the raw fruit for you guys to taste. I think it's just the raw fruit Anastasia wouldn't taste it because she got no stones, no stones, not willing to risk her life for good tasting materials. Anyway, this episode is really this is really common considering that episode was in June, but I figured that Anastasia and Dave in the gang did not mention the Pol Pot tree. If you've not heard of it, the paw paw is native to a large proportion a large portion of the United States and is to my knowledge, one of the only truly tropical like fruits that grows in the temperate regions of the US in size, shape and texture is similar to a mango, but the taste is kind of a cross between a mango and a banana. pretty delicious, but very difficult to find what I do know about that, but I haven't really had a lot because they're very hard to ship. I'm only for tourists enough to have tried it because my architecture and landscape firm specified it in one of our projects. I don't have any questions I'm just raring to share and figure you all be interested in one of the most under the radar delicious fruits is native to the US. So look, about a month ago, I didn't know you're doing this, I call this guy who has these paw paw nurseries. But the problem is, is that I couldn't find someone who had shipped me a good Papaw tree because I'm planning on planting some to see how they to see how they work. You have Papa Joe in Connecticut. Yeah, they grew up in Connecticut. They grow they there's like like, you know, like Brandon was saying they grow in most of the temperate regions. They don't ship very well. Like they're very soft, and they don't ship very well. And I think they're relatively polarizing. And the cultivars are relatively different. So it's kind of hard to get get people to, you know, get into it as a commercial fruit. But yes, I plan on sampling pawpaws ever What about you, Peter, you're getting pawpaws your parents are now in tropical fruit land and tropical like California style sub tropical fruit where they live now. outside San Diego. coerce me. Weather's nice. Me. I told you. There are studies that show that after two years you don't give a crap about the weather anymore. Like if someone asks you is the weather nice? Where you are even like yeah, I love it. But like you don't rate yourself as happier because the weather is nice. must ask you do you hate? Do you hate good weather? Because it makes people soft? Is that why you don't like? Is that what you like to hear? Or is it that you just don't like the people in California? And that's why you moved over here. I don't like the people in California. Wow, are you California is out there. I like you. But Anastasia not so much. Right? Yeah. Anyway. And she's from there. So it's one of those things where, you know, I always think self hate is a little weird. But you know, you can't get down on someone for the self hate. Can you? Are you allowed to make fun of someone for self hate? I don't know. Peter, what are you? What are your feelings? I feel that you're allowed to have a lot of self loathing, like when you're in college. I feel that's what college is about, like teenage years. The adolescence is about like becoming a better person through self loathing. But I think I feel you should grow out of it. What do you think Peter? No, Joe, self loathing.

I think it's more like after college, you go through that phase, you know, and you're trying to find yourself or whatever. Yeah, well, then then the amount of

it then you self load for self loathing? And that's so multi layered. Yeah, exactly. Like, why am I 36? And still, so?

You tell me? Tell me. I'm sure it has something to do with the Museum of food and drink. Zing. It's funny because it's true. All right, so

So I guess Davey just answered the question. It's okay to make fun of people who self love.

Learn by Doing?

How do you feel now? You've got a big smile on your face. So there's the answer.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, look, you know what? Peter can take it. That's why I like working with it. I don't like working with people who can't take it. Do you want to say what do you think says what do you think about people that work with people that like it? Don't like it crying thing

the whole like, I need therapy thing?

No, that's not right. If someone needs help thesis Yeah, that's not right. I just like working with people that can give and get I don't like people that can dish it out and can't take it. God knows I take enough. God knows additional facts. Right. So I started shaking her head up and down. Alright, listen. So we had some more information on the butter question we had before so to tell you what happened. We had a James from Cafe resolu. In I think Seattle, was having a problem with batch to batch his butter was brittle. You know, he's butter butter. Butter was brittle. So he couldn't make like puff pastry or croissant or anything like this because as he was stretching the dough, the butter would shatter into pieces and wouldn't stretch along with the dough. Right. And so, you know, he had thought that it had something to do with maybe the fee Eat of the animal or the crystal sighs So I wrote to professor Doug Gough, who is like, you know, one of the bigwigs does the ice cream stuff at the University of Guelph is how you pronounce that place. Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph anyway, they have great dairy pages. And I've read them for many years. I really enjoyed them. And so I wrote them and I gave him the question. And here's what he wrote. He wrote it as I forwarded your question to one of our faculty members with expertise in lipids technology, which is a fantastic thing I did not hear from the lipid technologist, which would be a fantastic title, lipid technologist, so you may see a reply from him. But he tells me which I did not he tells me that from his experience this is not uncommon brittle brittle brittle butter problem excited with a stupid voice Peter, you're good at that.

I'm not doing I'm not falling house chat man.

Come on, man. Say it in your in your I'm announcing the puffing gun voice brittle butter the other good like weird. Announcer Do you start you don't I'm talking about Anastasia at all. That's more like me at the beginning of the show. Yeah, no, you only DAX every once in a while. Like it's like to the to the beginning of the show. And like now I'm in the middle of like the house and you can't scream we have neighbors anyway. He tells me from experience that this is not uncommon. It is most likely related to fat crystal size and structure within the butter. Rather than composition variation when butter is manufacturing one of the objectives of cream tempering churning and working is to achieve very small fat crystals, which then relates to smoother texture, consistent consistency and playability. The exact temperatures and times are these stages does relate to composition. And that can vary by feed etc. After manufacture many factors including temperature variation during storage, delivery and or the age of the butter. And that's also important the age of the butter. And I'll get more on that later, it can cause an increase in fat crystal size. As this happens, butter becomes progressively more coarse in texture and riddle Instructure think about melting butter to oil and then putting it in the refrigerator to recrystallize you get a very hard brittle lump, because it was not properly turned and worked. This would be the extreme. So the variation in quality is structure slash texture related, and not really primarily difference in the different kinds of triglycerides that are in the butter. So that he says I hope this helps Doug Goff it did help. So I wrote him and said, Thank you, professor. And then I said this. I said I'll let you know if I hear from your colleague, which I did not. I'm pondering your response and pondering your response. This is me, I wonder whether mechanical manipulation could help whenever I'm going to use butter and biscuits or cake and don't have time to let it temper I beat it repeatedly with a rolling pin. I've always noticed that this plasticizers the butter how much of that change is frictional heating probably only a small amount I do not know could the effect of beating the cold butter help these folks ie you know you guys are Catholic resolu or is the effect to macro and wouldn't help them on the smaller scale of a puff paste and he said that might help Dave could be worth a try at least. So I would try taking some of the butter that is not working properly and beating the beating the bejesus out of it. But then I saw an article which is available free of charge on the internet internet's that you need to read called the effective factors get ready write this one down the effective factors on the structure of butter and other milk fat based products by Stein I guess how do you pronounce the oh the slash through it? Oh, right. Rune hold are over the slash through it and oil n h ll T September 2013. This article is terrible in the sense that what they really care about is producing lower fat butter, which as we all know, is a horrible idea. Horrible, horrible. But it's a good article in that it talks about every stage step by step and what it does to factory suicides and it has the extreme advantage of being available on the internet. So as you store butter and the temperature goes up, like let's say it's been tempered up to 20 and then re cooled and done a bunch of times the the a lot of the smaller crystals and the ones with the lower melting points will melt out to a liquid even though the butter maintains its solid state and then on re crystallization slowly in the fridge will get progressively larger crystals which may be causing some brittleness crystals size just increases with time as as butter ages in the fridge. So maybe the brittle butter is older butter, but maybe beating the heck out of it actually might help. So they're gonna kick us off the air in a minute but Anastasia and I actually I think Anastasia actually enjoyed this trip which is unusual. Anastasia usually hates most everything. We went to Saratoga Springs Do you ever been to Saratoga Springs I have for the horse racing for the water.