Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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Hey, I'm Jimmy Carboni from dear sessions radio, you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of good news coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like, you know, 12 ish to like around one o'clock. You know, from Roberta's pizzeria. Where is it? Natasha Bushwick. Bushwick, Bushwick.

joined as usual, with Nastasia the hammer Lopez in the studio. How you doing? Good. Yeah. Got David in the booth, right? Also good. Yeah. We weren't here last week because I was in Barcelona. In fact, I just gave by the way, like if you have like a co worker, it's a good idea to bring him some some crap back. So I went to Barcelona, first of all I had for the first time. That Spanish style gin and tonic, although they're like, Catalan style Catalan. I'm like, okay, okay, whatever kind of lifestyle gin and tonic. So we can talk about that later if we have time. But I went to one of these old and very well known bakeries in Barcelona, it was called camina camina. camina means honey, like beehive in Spanish, and it's these hard candies they've been making since 1849. Why do you think the weird flavors not the flavors it

tastes like a coffee shop but it's called as it used to live in eremo money.

You don't have to look it up. It's some of them are herbal, some of them are fruity. They're all different anyway. Call in your questions to 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128. Also in the cooking issues, style of news this weekend, Sunday is the first day of the chow exhibit the general one the we tomorrow we have our Kickstarter benefit, I guess or VIP benefit or whatever. And then on Sunday is the opening. So if you want to head down to 7062 rather 62 They are in St. Right off McCarren Park in Brooklyn. They say it's Williamsburg, but in the real life it's Greenpoint. We all know it's Greenpoint. right sizing me up if you have to. So for those who didn't never been to New York, like there's this like horrible road called the Brooklyn Queens expressway, the BQE and it basically cuts a whole section of Brooklyn and Queens off from the rest of the universe, like towards the waterline and generally like once you cross under that you're not in Williamsburg no more. You know what I mean? What do you think David? You agree with me on this? Yeah, yeah, it's anyway I mean McCarran McCarren park that's like Greenpoint. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, sure. He's like, I don't really care.

I live really far away from there. So I kind of don't like that. You know,

the thing is, is that like the individual neighborhoods in, in New York, have become so hip, that so when I was like, you know, 20 something years ago, like when I worked in a metal fabricating shop in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, called SF w as in so blanking what metals that was literally the name of the shop where I worked, inhaling like black metal dust all day long. But so what so we're so what, but there was no one there. I mean, like it was like, like the idea of a hipster like what you told someone you were moving to Greenpoint? They're like, where what now? It's so hip in Greenpoint, that the people in Greenpoint never leave Greenpoint. So they're like, in other words, the point being that they're so insulated, they're in Greenpoint, land that like what like Why be so close to Manhattan? Like what's the point? Like you might be

anywhere could be anywhere, anywhere, anywhere? Columbus, Columbus. Yes,

exactly. Right. Because it's not like it's not like to hipster hubs in those places. Sure. And like, you know, I guess there is a theoretical G train connection from Greenpoint to the rest of New York City, but not really, no, it's kind of just theoretical, right?

Yeah, I mean, I live in Ditmas park so that is definitely theoretical. It's like 20 stops on the GED or something to get from Williamsburg to fitness.

How close is that to the Ditmas Avenue stop on the f

I'm about a 1015 minute walk from that I'm closer to the be in the queue.

Do you go to train world ever? That's like an awesome huge model train shop right on get mess. Nope. missing out if you're a model train person as my you know my son Booker, you're gonna say as Anastasia is. You imagine like the idea of Anastasia sitting in her work.

You'll hear me talk about trains and then go home and hear burger.

Yeah, cuz her likes trains, but like subway trains only but like now I have this image of Anastasia going home putting on one of those blue and white engineer hats. You know, there's like carrying with my training with your model trains all day. Maybe it's a secret obsession. And when I call it's like, easier you hear that? You hear that? Crap? I'm like, what is that necessity? Nothing Shut up. Just running from model trains all day. That will be

that would be the ultimate secret every way amazing. There's just

not in your character at all. Like you have like five levels like going on. I

would have one like a Christmas train

around the tree. I would Yeah. Do you Do you want one? I would. I can bring some have a lot of I can bring some tracks home.

I don't have any. I have a big I can give me the name.

For the tree. The minimum oval is 30

then I want all the little Christmas houses to

then I tell you the minimum overland and oh gauge train is 27 inches call Oh 27. That's small. I'm telling you, you can get a small track. You know that but you have to only certain engines run on the o 27. Maybe the restaurant on the o 31. Booker would loan you one of His Santa Fe's because he does not care that a Santa Fe I have plenty of track. Do they have Metro North one? Now you're talking money once you're licensing stuff like to like this one company mth used to have the license for the subway, the New York City subway. Intel they put out a graffitied model. MTA was like crap on you, crap on you. So they gave it back to Lionell. But because it's an official license Lionell like totally raked over the coals for the money. So what mth did is they started selling non license things that look exactly like the MTA things. They just don't have the MTA stickers and then other Jokers are selling the MK stick stick on it. Yeah, of course you would. If you're just like me that way. You're like, yeah, I don't really care whether it's real or not, you know,

it's all a scam artists.

The Christmas tree, you know, anyway, well, a couple of scam, please. Oh, God.

Dave, if I did the MTA chain, then you'd have to build. I mean, the Metro North you'd have to build a little leather man.

Oh my god. Did we talk about living man on the air? Yeah, and we talked to Dave we talked about letting man right. The guy who walked around Kinetik guy who I would be where it not for the fact that I have a wife and kids

weatherman. I don't recall that call Leatherman. So has it like a like a dungeon? Daddy

No, it's not God no, not really cooking related either. But there's a guy. There's this guy and nobody knows his real name. People say they know his real name, but they don't all that crap was made up. They know he was like French ish. Like he could speak some French kinda. And in the 1800s from like, I guess just after the Civil War until he died and I think 83 or 8918 89 He would just walk a 300 and something mile trail looping from Westchester right over by the Hudson biasing up over through into Connecticut down the Connecticut River down the Connecticut River and then along with shoreline under this loop it and he would walk about 10 miles a day. Every day of the year rain when snow the biggest blizzard of the century they had in the 1800s stopped him for I think three days put him three days behind schedule, and he would just sleep outside under these rock overhangs, which they call leather man caves even though they're not actual caves because Connecticut doesn't have a real case. And like occasionally people give him stuff to eat and he sewed all of his clothing, there are pictures of them you can look them up they sewed all of his clothing out of discarded boots that he cut the tops off of and lace them all together into this like big like outfit. So there there are Photoshopped images of my face over the letter man's body because I would if it wasn't for the fact that I had kids and a wife you know,

those are those are your only anchors to prevent you from it is spinning out of control into that world

pretty much Yeah,

but into Civil War reenactment.

I'll do leather man. Someone already did it. The other reason look like I have a place in Chester, Connecticut and he used to walk through Chester and like I spent a good portion of my childhood in Chappaqua, slash Mount Kisco, New York and he used to walk through Mount Kisco fact, he died on the Westchester side. So basically, I'm already living the Letterman life anyway. I already I've already so cheap that I'll walk anywhere for no reason, like without having, you know. So you know, what's the point? What's the point of anything? He's just walking.

So existential.

You know, it's like, no, but

what would the point be for

you? For me? Yeah, what else am I gonna do? I've already lost my house because I haven't paid my bills. I've already like this is hypothetical. I'm saying if I didn't have a family to tack me down, you know what I mean? I'd be it'd be a nightmare. Anyway. So back to cooking related things. By the way. We had a question a couple weeks ago, on hickory syrup. And I report back that I made some soy hickory syrup is not like maple syrup, and that you don't make it from the sap of hickory. You make it from the bark. And I know what, okay, so for those of you that don't know, the most famous kind of hickory tree in terms of the nuts anyway, it's called the shagbark hickory. And there are some other ones. Many of them have awful flavored nuts like the Pignut hickory taste and the bitter not hickory clearly are terrible tasting hickories. There's also the mocker nut, which doesn't I don't think tastes bad, but it's just very difficult to crack and the shell bark, which is very another Shagbark. But anyway, I digress. So the nuts are delicious. And you know, we've talked about it a couple of years ago, we went on a hickory nut cake. We love hickory nuts. hickory nuts are awesome. I love them. They're delicious. They are like, you know, pecan is a good nut, which is closely related to Hickory nut but the hickory nut is actually in my opinion a superior not just much harder to get to. So and smaller than a pecan. So the pecan wins from a commercial standpoint, whatever. Whatever. In the stocks, yes. And anything you don't like, right pecan pie?

No, not really not my God. I like your pecan sours.

Yeah, those are good. Yeah, remember? Well, Nastasia we won't get into it because not family friendly. What Anastasia did at the event where we were making those things? Oh, that was? Oh, yeah. No, that was you. You got so angry. They wouldn't let you behind the bar at the YMCA. It's not safe for work. What happened in that situation? That's for the next time we have an unexpurgated cooking issues, then, you know, someone can call in and request that they get the Anastasia Lopez. YMCA, pecan story.

Let's do that. We'll get Johnny Walker to sponsor. Yeah,

all right, we can say that we made it with Johnny Walker. Who knows? I mean, I don't even remember what he made it with. You know, I have no idea anyway, I just remember the story the anger and well whatever gotta get it involves involves dietary laws. It's it's a nightmare. Yeah, it's religion, dietary laws. anastasius. You know, lack of respect for either anyway, so. So back to Hickory. So shagbark hickory. One of the interesting things about it is that it is one of the most aptly named trees that exists. The bark looks Shaggy, almost like like a 60s rockers feathered out hair. You know what I mean? Like it just comes off in big kind of strips. And it's layered as it comes down the tree and it peels off. What that means is you can harvest the bark rather easily without damaging the tree, because you can just rip off the pieces. In fact, I have some pictures of the bark. I'll post it later, after I post my obligatory posts for you know who Nastasia is to get mad at me. Because it turns out so this is separate, but if someone pays you money, you have to do a certain number of posts and they don't pay you the money until you've done said certain number of posts. And I'm terrible at that. And so Anastasia has been writing me like a trick pony. for like a week and a half. Just put up the last post. Yeah, whatever, please. Okay, I'm a bad man. It's stipulated so the so anyway, so someone asked me about making it any tips or tricks or tips or tricks that I had. So I went out into the woods because I know where I have a shagbark hickory. It's actually on the neighbor's property but whatever. Then what the hell do they know they're not using it. So I went up and I ripped some of the bark off without damaging the tree. And by the way, so I didn't measure anything but I harvested enough for about three liters of syrup and I harvested it in like under two minutes because it's just like snap, snap, snap, snap walk out. Now, here's the techniques I used in case you know, I thought it came out very well. So you follow these techniques again, with no measurements, I took them back inside, I scrubbed them to get any sort of moss like in or like you know, buggy like you know, you know, Caterpillar e 10 D craps off of them because that's gross. I snapped. I then snapped it into pieces that would fit into my oven. I toasted them in the oven while I baked them in the oven at 350 to 375 for like 1015 minutes until I started to get the aroma out, opened the oven, let them flash off and get dry, snap them into small pieces. You know fairly small pieces like I don't know, like an inch, inch and a half. I wasn't too anal about it. Here's the one kind of tech trick I did. I then put them in a vacuum machine and sucked the vacuum on them in water like two three times to infuse them rapidly so that they'd be rapidly infused with water wouldn't float at the top. I thought that was a good idea that I put them into a big pot with water I covered it and added a little more but I wanted to keep it a fair I wanted to have a very high see people have problems with this becoming bitter. And so I didn't want to become bitter and usually the way you do that is you do relatively quick steams with relatively large amounts of product into not as much water. So I did that and then I brought it up to a boil. turned it off, covered it let it steep for a while kept checking it when it was brown but not too bitter. I strained it discarded the bark back outside, then I reduced the product down by a factor of two. So I started with about four liters of stuff liquid for four and a half I reduced it down actually more than twice reduced it down. Then after it had been reduced down to little less than half I added equal weight in of sugar started into syrup and that was it and it was good. So the things I recommend I recommend if you have a vacuum you do a vacuum infusion so that you have the water on the inside really quickly. I recommend like bringing it up to a simmer than letting it steep and keep testing it while it's going so it doesn't get too too bitter. And then I recommend draining and then reducing it substantially to increase the flavor profile before adding the sugar and I've used it so far in a minimal fashion with it. It was delicious. In my opinion, and that was just you know three eighths of that hickory syrup and to have whiskey and dash or to have an go and orange twist. I also because it does have some tannins in it is it slight has a slight bitterness in the back. I did a I used it in a shaken sour, which was actually interesting but not with bourbon. I did a daiquiri. I did an aged I did an aged rum, egg white, Hickory syrup daiquiri and it was really good and and some of the the eight Yeah, the egg white. Interesting. They also tested that recipe Anastasia. Just for the just for giggles I tested it in an ISI weapon nisi Whipper to see what would happen. I was like, You know what? I hate doing cocktail phones, right? I've always hated doing cocktail phones, so I don't do it. So but since I'm not I don't have a bar anymore. I can kind of do whatever I want. So I was like, Well, what if I were to put this cocktail into like a FOMO with the egg white. So I did a dry shaken thing. Then I added ice shook it added that nitrous shook it and then pump the cocktail out. And the Stasi had the cocktail filled like three glasses, one cocktail for like three glasses. 100% foam, 100% foam, no liquid. I was like, What the hell am I gonna do with this? But it was good. But like, do you want to drink a foam? You put on pie? Right? That's a good idea, like a cocktail. But eventually it settles out but you have like minutes you have on the order of like minutes. Yeah, if you put it on like a pumpkin. That's a good idea daiquiri on top of a pumpkin pie. That'd be good. Really good. Nice. I mean, needs to be contained a little bit. So where you'd maybe you'd have like, some pie in the bottom of a cup. Like a like a puff, puff a cup, and then some of that stuff on top. That's, that's smart. That's smart. I like pumpkin pie.

You're a little bit tipsy and foam.

Alright, love it. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, in fact, I could probably dope it back with cream to make it like really. Now you have full jquan going through my head. Everybody in the club. Everybody in the club. get tipsy. Anyway, so that was what, that's my results with hickory syrup. And thanks for whoever brought it up so that I could test it. I recommend going on foraging for that crud. Here's a question on fryers from 80 in Russia, you've spoken about this before but I can't find your answer like espresso machines, traditional deep fryers and British fish and chip shops. What do you think about that fish and chips As opposed to like french fries chips, we think we're calling them chips.

I guess they called it first, right? Who says that? I don't know.

They're not called British fries. Traditional deep fryers in British fish and chip shops worked by the thermal mass of the huge fryer, warming up, fired by gas and recovering after the addition of bucket loads of coal potatoes to make chips. I see. Excuse me. I see commercial line fryers, meaning continuous fryers, I guess, that make potato chips like Lay's or tortilla chips that have PID controllers and internal conveyor belts to move the product through the oil. If I want to increase consistency and temperature recovery, is it worth adding a PID over the thermostatic control on a benchtop electric deep fryer best at a cold Englishman in Moscow, Russia, and PS before I answer this question, PS Anastasia, is there any chance you could get Mark Ladner on to talk about the Del Posto cookbook on the air? I for 1am interested is that you're doing next Tuesday. Really? There you have it next Tuesday. people tune in be ready for it. If they're still talking to me next week on Monday is the first installment where I go to Oh toe. You know the Mario Batali has pizza restaurant have to go all the time, right every time you're there. If you don't, I'll murder you. And so I have to prep some do I'm going to Ohto and work and I'm going to be making cocktails behind the bar at Otoe. So I'm doing a I think I'm using some I'm doing a carbonated amaro like spritzer with probably with lime. And I'm doing a apricot into bourbon. Who's Dino and I'm going to do a Italian basil nitrile model. Gin sour. We think I think I'm going to add a little bit of strength into that son of a gun.

How long have you there for how many hours?

Like I don't know. I think from like something till close. What time do they close for? In the morning? A piece of? Yeah, really? Their bar? I don't think I'm gonna be there till four. I mean, it doesn't really matter. As soon as soon as my kids are asleep and my wife's asleep. It doesn't matter what time I go let her man start walking. They're like where are you going? Leatherman goes straight Leatherman. It's like well, I gotta get up out of the city so I can get back on my loop. He didn't like traveling in cities because people in the cities used to pick on him so he would avoid the he would avoid the main the main routes and for those of you that don't know have never been to the northeast here like a lot of that kind of land where he used to walk around is forested now but back in the day wasn't was all cleared weren't a lot of like, you know, forests and trees around that stuff's all second growth. So yeah, so he would just like there'd be these rock outcroppings where he'd go hang out, and like you know, cook whatever in heck he was eating because he also had I think like a tin pot. Apparently he a lot like me, he would carry like 6070 pounds of gear around for no reason. Just for no reason. Like all the time. He's only walking 10 miles a day.

So you just say the encroachment of civilization is hurting Leatherman. Well,

he did he died. He had cancer. Oh, yeah. He died in the 1880s. Yeah, here's he was doing the snake and the ATM come back, as I think I may have come back and say like he he had a some sort of horrible mouth cancer that was eating away at his lips for the last year, year and a half of his life. And someone tried to take him to the hospital. He's like, and then got back out and started walking again. Now that's commitment. Now, I mean, never stop, stop. Don't stop till you drop, man. That's it. It's like why are you You know, why do you engineer Dave? Like, why are you sitting there engineering? I'm just because they pay you. But why do you need the money? So you can eat let a man ate? He didn't have any money. You know, I'm saying it's like, what's the reason to doing anything? He's like, I'm walking anyway. So we should all just walk is what you're saying? No, I'm saying it's like, you know, he had a goal. I'm going to walk 10 miles a day, I'm going to carry my crap with me. I'm going to wear boots.

Was that his goal to do 10 miles a day or that was incidental. I think it was incidental.

He was pretty much he was like a watch people when people were like, it's time for the lead man to come around.

He wasn't like a pro Walker. He was just like, a survivor.

So okay, so if he liked you, like if he didn't really want to talk to you, so there's this one group that took like that, like would give him soup or whatever, and he'd stopped by a new take it he wouldn't talk to him or anything. But at one time, they set up like a camera with a sheet over it. And then as he was sitting, they dropped the sheet and took the picture and there's this picture of him where he has this kind of like look on his face.

I thought this was in the 1800s He said, Man Get with it. Yeah, but didn't it take like hours for it to take a photo?

This is like the 1870s I think they've it's a little bit better than like in the 1860s up on my history of photography. I mean, it wasn't like instinct anyway, so they were they surprised him he definitely weren't Polaroids right. He never went back to that house again. So like what happened is like if you were nice to him and he liked liked you he would come back to your house every or your whatever every 34 days. But did he talk? Not much.

There's like a holes in the story or anything.

I mean, look, I've read all of the relevant literature has read everything. Yeah. So so the point is, is that he would just show up and then but if you were mean to him or like we're like trying to force him to he'd be like, you'd never show up again at your place. He's like you're done with you give you a wide berth

kind of a good thing, right? If he doesn't show up, and everyone kind of wants

to show up. At that time in the US, there are a lot of what's called antiTrump laws because a lot of people were roaming around a lot of people were displaced from like traditional farmland traditional jobs. So there was a lot of wandering a lot of tramps like hobo style, but like earlier, and they were widely hated. And a lot of people like passed anti tramp laws. And in fact, there was lots of beatings, murdering of tramps, people like had doing all sorts of terrible things to vagrants. So this is not a modern phenomenon. And he was the one exception people were like, Yay, anti tramp law, but don't let him just dump. No, you don't. I mean, in fact, like these one group of people basically got the snot beat out of them for messing with the Letterman.

Can you post a photo

of the Letterman? Photo? Yeah, actually, chatroom just linked me to the Wikipedia page. And there's a better photo

anastasius talking about the one that's my face on the Letterman Show? Oh, yeah, I didn't spend that much time photoshopping it. Like I didn't, for instance,

although is a perfect look is in black and white. Yeah, I

mean, it's not what you really want to do if you're going to fake the photo is obviously pose yourself in the same sort of pose that the person was in and try to match the angle of the camera. I just like found the fastest photo I could find on the internet, cut out my face and stuff.

And really, if you wanted to go full method, you'd have to be like living like leather man for at least a week or so just to get into that mindset. I

think it takes a couple of years, I'd have to learn French first of all, and then not speak to anyone. That'd be like the first the first thing I mean, I used to know some French but not enough. Anyway, back to the question. But we were talking about here question, Should I add a PID controller to my fryer so that I can approximate what happens in continuous frying at and the answer is no, you should not. And here's why. Or as Myhrvold would say, here is why you should not let some mix between Myhrvold and my professor Raymond Boyce

or his leather man would say pork? Well, yeah, or just?

That's what he would say. You like leather, man? How's the food? And then he would just walk away anyway. Do you try to get me back off? Did trying to get me back off topic. I don't

like the way you phrase that sense. Anyway,

come on, this is one of the family shows. So anyway. So anyway, so you don't want to do that. Here's why. And it continuous continuous Frying is exactly what it says it is it's continuous. That means you don't want any change one way or the other. They are extremely, they're typically very long. And they're very, very highly regulated. So you know, the first like 234 100 pounds, I don't know depends on the size of the line. But the first whole bunch of stuff that comes out of the fryer is not going to be right. It'll be over, it'll be under whatever, until everything comes into equilibrium. And so typically, these things take a long time to calibrate, but then they run them for, you know, for ever. So like they have a PID controller on their oil, because they want to keep the oil at a certain place at exactly the same temperature. They know that they're adding X number of pounds of potatoes or tortilla chips every hour. And they eventually know what he average heat input they need into the oil to keep it at the at the right point. And there's a gradation probably, definitely in the oil temperature from the beginning of the line to the to the end of the line. But everything stays constant. Because they have a relatively constant heat input. They have a really relatively constant potato input. And they're also adding fresh oil because the miracle of continuous frying, the miracle of it is that you can you absorb oil, you add oil at the rate that it is absorbed by your potato or your tortilla chip. And if you get everything just right, then the oil is always perfectly conditioned with brand new fry oil is not good and old fryer oil is not good. The reason brand new fry oil is not good is it actually is too pure. And it doesn't bond as it doesn't transmit heat as well to the chips, a little bit of breakdown, makes it slightly more polar and transmits the energy much better to the chip. So you actually want it to slightly break down. But you don't want it too much. And so when a continuous fryer, you can keep everything perfect by adjusting the rate of product in potatoes or tortillas and the rate of oil in so that the oil in there is constantly right. So it's all about juggling these kind of that's why you can't make just a few things and continuous fryer. And for that PID is perfect, perfect. Everything is perfect all the time. The oil is always the same. The potato chips or whatever are always the same. Everything takes exactly the same amount of time. Awesome. By contrast, in batch frying, you are dumping a load into a single batch temperature is going to drop and you need to get that temperature back up. Now here you don't want a PID. Now you could have a PID that realize it but it's just very aggressively tuned so that it rockets back up close to your finished temper. Sure, but then knows to slow down a little bit as you're coming up so that you don't overshoot a lot. So there might be a situation where you don't where you can win over a standard like bang, bang, thermostat. But depending on the amount of temperature rise, you're going to get, usually, let's say, let's say you dump a bunch of stuff into a deep fryer, and temperature drops real low, it turns the heat way on, and you're rocketing up through to your setpoint. Now, if you have only a small amount of product in there, maybe it can overshoot a lot. But odds are, by the time if your fryer is really powerful, by the time it hits, that hits back as temperature, you're still boiling a lot of water off out of your products. So you shouldn't get that much of a rise out of it theoretically, especially if you have good convection in it, which is why real tube fryers are awesome, because they don't tend to locally overheat your oil because they have a much larger surface area to put heat into the oil anyway. So if you have an actual commercial fryer with a bang, bang thermostat on it, it doesn't tend to overheat your oil. And they're pretty awesome. And really, you don't need single degree control over the oil temperature anyway, you just don't want it to get too too low, and you don't want it to go high and you want your recovery to be fast. So I would say no, do not P IDs. Although the converse, I'm going to go back, I want to say if you're going to pot fry, I think having a using one of those controlled like induction units for frying can be very useful because it's very hard at home, to pay attention to a fryer all the time when you're doing a bunch of other stuff. And it's very easy to overheat your fry oil on on a stovetop. And so one of these inductions like the Breville one that I got sent or any other ones can be very useful in keeping your fry oil, so it doesn't go up to too high. And certain of those like the Breville can have like an aggressive setting where it can get back up to a temperature aggressively. It's not as much as like on off, but it's much more aggressive than the more standard PID s. And a lot of PID technology, by the way in terms of cooking and a lot of what's different between different circulators is how aggressive their strategy is a more aggressive strategy will get you to the temperature faster, but have some overshoot anyway, what do you think says Good job, okay. Anthony from Nashville writes in a bad book or index. Hey, Dave, hammer, David and guests. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about closing down Booker and DAX in the process of finding a new location. While you'll be looking for a new spot? And what kind of changes will you include in the new bar? And why? Maybe it's me, but seems like he didn't talk about too much on the show, which is why I had to get information from the internet's sorry, if I'm bringing up a sore subject. Anyway, you guys are great. Love the show, Anthony from Nashville. And the problem Anthony is that there's only so much that I can say because because I'm not allowed to say like exactly like, who's going to be involved or what, you know, what the arrangement is going to be, what the name of the bar is going to be, etc, etc. Because we're we're all in negotiations for these things. At the moment, I can say this, I'm looking for space, I've looked at several spaces, I haven't found a space yet that I think is, is right. As for what's going to be different or the same. You know what I want to be this, I think the core of Booker and DAX was the bar the core was that we were going to work very hard to make the drinks as good as we can make them and present them in a non pretentious style, we were using new techniques and trying to focus on working on flavor. So it's very specific idea behind drink creation. And from a customer service standpoint, we really wanted it to be like I say, friendly and non pretentious, and you know, a place that you'd be comfortable to go and hang out and have some fun. So that was the goal. I think there you know, we hopefully I think succeeded on those two counts. I think in the future, I want to I'm interested now, in the fact of why people go to the bars and and I think it's to feel awesome, right stars, like I think you want to look awesome. Not necessarily everything looks awesome, but that you feel like you look awesome, you feel like you are awesome. I think that's almost it's not almost it's more important than the drink, right? Like the fact that you feel kind of special or like that, you know? That you just feel good. Like why else would you go to a bar if you want to feel crappy you go home, you know what I mean? Not that going home makes you feel crappy stuff. But so I'm going to focus on those kinds of things more in the in the next go around, not that we didn't focus on them before, but I'm going to kind of put those prior and prime place. And also, I want to make our carbonation system a little better. I mean, there's a bunch of like tweaks and things depending on the people I'm working with new techniques might be available to us that weren't before because I was so I might not be as As vehement about not using some techniques. I don't know. Will we use varnishes? I don't know. I doubt we'll use a lot of oranges. We're never going to be a garbage heavy cocktail bar with garnishes, but I don't know, it's yet to be seen. So it's not that as a sore subject, it's just there's certain things that can't say. And I found also that like until you have something concrete to say, it's usually you know, best not to say much at all right? So it's true. Yeah. Jeff from Los Angeles writes, Hey, gang, I recently got into brewing, I'm thinking about using a circulator, to do a Bruin bag, all grain setup, during mash running the circulator outside the bag and probably with a hop sock. When you think about that word hop sock, that does that mean, it's like, you know, like, like a dance, you

go to high school.

Now you have like at the hop and you're like going through my head, but no, it's like, it's like a bag to hold the hop so that they could pull it back out again, around the circulator, as insurance in case anything escapes the bad it looks like a nova tacitly approves this based on the 2015 interview they did on brewing beer with the ANOVA. But the owner's manuals for each of my circulators I have a PolyScience professonal and an ANOVA. One state that they shouldn't come into contact with food in quotes. I also contacted a nova customer service, and they said no to what was done in the article. So what's the deal? Is it safe to do with either of both my circulators? If so, is there any particular cleaning that you recommend before or after to ensure long life for the circulators? In the no off flavors are party to the word? Thanks for your help. FYI, you meeting me Nastasia yelling at you, Anastasia and Peter during the carbonation segment a few weeks ago with some of the most best comedy I've heard on the podcast, Jeff from Los Angeles. Also, I stand corrected. The Blue Man episode, which was that not safe for work was even funnier. So there you go. Not a family show. So here's the thing, the real there's a bunch of reasons why people don't say things are food grade. And I can tell you this as an equipment designer, one, they simply don't want to pay to get it certified as food grade. So for instance, the original poli sci and stainless steel circulators, were not didn't have NSF approval, even though everything in contact with the food was in fact, food grade. Now, there's two issues that you come across with? Well, there's a bunch of issues a, is it gonna? Is the food gonna harm the unit? The answer in most of these cases is no, you don't want to clog it right. So you want to make sure nothing can clog the circular circulator part. But in general, no, the food's not going to hurt the thing, too, although I forget which one it was, but one of the lower price circulators would not circulate oil, you remember that stops. Were you at that with me? Yes, Wisconsin. It was in Wisconsin, we were at doing that demo with Johnny and Hunter. And we couldn't get the one circulator to go in oil, because we were doing that oil water test. Anyway, I think that's either the viscosity was a problem. And one of the sensors was like, this is weird. And it didn't didn't sense, right. So it would work. But that was oil. So anyway, so there's a is the food going to hurt the unit? No. And then there is the unit going to hurt the food. And this can be in one of a number of ways. One, the material itself could be unsafe or food contact, ie poisonous, or what most people worry about is oils, from bearings or plastics leaching out nasty stuff into the food, right. So that's the primary concern. In the old circulators. There were no like the stainless steel, Poly Science ones there were, there was nothing in contact with the food, the bearings were all up top. And it was all just a stainless steel impeller, there was literally nothing but stainless steel in contact. So let's take that one as the as the base and also, the newer PolyScience ones. They're not rated for food, but the plastic I believe is food safe. And I had this conversation with Philip Preston. But it was years ago, I can't speak about the plastics that are used in the ANOVA. But I will say this in general, most of these designers would only ever specify food grade plastics simply because why wouldn't it cost a little more, but in general, they know that people are using it for food contact and even if it's not, even if they're not going to go get the ratings for it. They would make it that way anyway, if they're good people, which most of them are. Okay, so back to what we were talking about and the joule, I don't know. Do we ask Chris Young on the Joule whether or not we'll find out because you know, he sponsored the show. Thanks. So we'll find out whether or not that one is a food grid. But the materials in general are food grade, they're in contact with the material with the food. So that's not an issue. Even if it is a food grade material. You have to get special certifications. The factory charges you more for those certifications of food grade. And finally, you have to get NSF approval for it, which is, you know, an actual certification, which also costs 10s of 1000s of dollars because we're going through it with the centrifuge getting our NSF approval. So there's that the difficulty in getting the NSF approval isn't solely based on the materials it's made out of but also how easy the material is to clean. So any portion of the unit that can't be disassembled and cleaned in a way that the People who are certifying and are happy with means that it's not going to get NSF approval. So in fact, even centrifuge is another example, certain design parts of the centrifuge are actually not ones that I like, I hate them. But I have to have them there because the factories told me that I won't be able to get NSF certification, for instance, unless certain parts can be broken down and washed separately. So a lot of whether or not something is rated for food contact might be whether or not the NSF people said that it can be washed out. Now, that said, that doesn't mean that you can't wash the stuff. Even if it's got like crevices, it just means it's more difficult to clean out. So as long as you're willing to take the time to clean it out. I would feel safe serving that stuff to my family. What do you think? Yes. Okay. Andrew writes in about pork, I think I think Andrew writes it about pork. I wanted to apologize for ripping on Dave the other week for disliking sweet tea. If I had known that he respected eastern North Carolina barbecue so much, I would never have questioned his like of dislike of sweet tea. And for the record, if you get sweet tea and one of those amber colored glasses, it's guaranteed to be too sweet. That's what we're talking about those not in fact, I'm staring at some of those amber colored glasses. Thank goodness, they did not serve sweet tea in this establishment. Although they do. Basically they serve their lemonade here as a concentrate, and you have to add water to what do you think about that concept? Do you like the fact that you get more and more lemonade for your money? No, no,