Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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I'm David volti. Host of the speakeasy you're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live in Bushwick Brooklyn every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 or one o'clock on the heritage Radio Network joined as usual with Anastasia of the hammer Lopez How you doing? Good. Got Dave in the booth. What up and we brought everybody's favorite person to beat on Peter Kim.

Once again here to spread hate and vacate

the director slash client of an end short order cook as it turns out for the museum's times too nice. Oh, you guys in your freaking district. Oh my god. Like these guys and the staff here right and wrong. They're like they live in that old school, old school office world. It's like literally 10 People working in this big kind of like lost

in one space. And they still no walls, no US

giant space. And they still have the same like weird office arguments like so you over email were copied on them. Someone didn't put away their sauerkraut. It's like, yeah, like you think you're trying to get away from like offices to get away from that. I have noticed the spoons are stacking up and I'm not copied on these emails.

Here's the funny thing. Dave. Here's the funny thing. You don't read any emails that come in, including ones that are pertinent to your business interest. That's because whenever I read you respond to the what you call it name dish emails. He just sent me these little needling messages being like, kill me period. That's

the reason folks that I don't respond to email. If I only got three emails a day and they were important, then I would respond to them. But like whenever, whenever I glance I every once in a while I never answer emails. Whenever I glanced at my emails, it's something incredibly worthless. Incredibly worthless. I used to have I'm terrible in meetings, people. I used to have this tactic in meetings where I remember this is the French culinary Anastasia meetings like people would start just saying inane things is crazy and like wasting time and I would just start going anyway, but and you're, you're just like tapping your hands on the table and they're like, What is he doing? He's like, this is what, this is what you're doing to me. You're hurling our time into the ether, hurrying like I'm a firm believer people never responding to emails now, I might take it too far. But I think everyone responds to emails. Too often there's a there's a mental cost to switching back and forth between tasks all the time. Maybe this is why people don't ever get anything done.

Well, there's something called teamwork, Dave that requires something called communication. And then it either has to happen by phone, email, or in person. So you're saying it's two different schools of thought. You're saying,

wait, wait, wait, wait. So Peter, what Peter is saying, is that, that nothing ever got done before the age of email? Because there was no team building back before they had email conversations. Back when? Back when back when everyone? Yes. Where he say, You know what, like, you don't really need to meet every 30 seconds, which is what email is an email is a meeting every 30 seconds. Right? What you it's totally inefficient, because Oh, my God, what did they say? Do I have to get angry? How many people don't have to CC and then you have to craft a response. And then they have response to the response, and so on and so on. This is how Hillary got her classified email issues. By the way, the 18 levels of response, I don't care if truth, like these are like long emails. And like, what's the point? What's the point just be especially people, they all work in the same box, walk over, over

emails, there's a reason for emails that literally people but these ones are crazy, literally,

like I can reach over? Should I choose to which you know, I never would I can reach over and touch Anastasia on the shoulder. However, at milkfat, they would send an email from me to Anastasia that's how it would frickin work. Literally, I could be staring you in the eyes and be sending you an email, maybe they want to have

to like, so it never happens again. Sauerkraut spoons.

I've never worked in an office where you don't have some of that sort of day to day crap. I mean, you just have to

you don't actually you do you actually do not. You could choose to say you know what, people, I am looking at my email four times a day. And that's it four times a day, realize that after I respond to you, I'm not going to see it for another quarter of the day

that probably wouldn't cut down on the flow of useless email though.

Well, it would cut down on not the ones not the external useless emails. But once people net didn't weren't in the position where they felt like they were gonna get a response within 10 seconds. There wasn't gonna be like believing

and you know, Oh, yeah. Oh, wait, oh, you're changing hearts and minds.

Here's the other thing. Dude. Have you ever like said this is especially true in kitchens in offices, where I'm not saying that offices are bad, but in offices where like, productivity is punished. And it's more about like the amount of emails you send that determine whether you're a good human being or not. In kitchens, this becomes a nightmare, because you can't actually sit and have a real conversation with someone because they're constantly being interrupted by texts from from other other venues. No one can actually, there's a huge chunk of people that just can't get anything done. Because they can't focus for 30 seconds to a minute and a half on the actual important crap that's being told to them live, instead are focused on friggin text and stuff. So you've seen this a million times, right? Especially once people are bored at work. Like once you get people who are bored at work, then all they do is focus on their texts. That's it.

Yeah. So in your mind, there was a golden age when things got done that stopped around the 90s.

No, I'm saying like, all these tools are great. It's just they're being used by people, like in a knucklehead way. I'm saying all these tools are useful. I'm just advocating, like I say, not being constantly plugged in to something that can pull your attention. Maybe Maybe you have a job out there people that doesn't require you to think but if you have to think that being pulled from conversation to conversation every 20 seconds is not helpful. It's just not friggin helpful. It's like with cooking. It's like when you're cooking in a kitchen. My wife always says, Why is it you know, what is it? It's like, what is it about the kitchen that, you know, you think is hard for people to get, it's hard for people to stay in the flow of the kitchen, because they get bored, and they get sucked down into other things. And then they lose track of what they're doing mental, their mental flow of what they're doing in the kitchen. And so yeah, they burn the sauce. They don't take the thing out of the frickin oven. They don't have the timings workout, right when the stuff comes out of the oven, because they're a bad cook. Well, maybe, but maybe part of the reason they're a bad cook is that they're not focusing on the flow of what happens in the kitchen. Good kitchen work is supposed to have a little bit of that in the flows then like I'm working and this is what I'm doing. I'm not doing some other garbage. Right. I'm doing this now. Yeah, maybe whatever. Had to relate it back to the cooking. So Peter, why are you here to harangue me about something

Andreessen accomplished? I think

you're gonna harangue me about something.

It's gonna keep coming. Yeah.

You're never learning anything. I'm just

here to just hear the needle you man.

Like so now? I'm owed some needling? Yeah, so I just got back. Not really got back at the end of last week. But I haven't done the show since from ChefSteps first time I visited ChefSteps and Seattle went to IG Jamie Boudreau his bar cannon very, very nice, nice place. I think they might have just won some award or something, I don't know, great bar, the most ridiculous liquor list I have ever seen in my life like the craze, like they like they can't print the liquor list because it'd be like a phone book. So it comes out in like iPad form. To give you an example. They, I don't know, I don't know, I don't really understand this, but they have a whole bunch of like, super super old whiskies, like super old like from like the 1800s that are like $1,400 A shot I asked a waiter I was like, Is that very good that that whiskey? He's like, No, he's like, but when someone like like some, like, you know, Microsoft or some like, you know, tech dude shows up there and makes a giant deal. He's like, What do you got? That's really expensive. And then once you spend $1,400 Each, this guy bought 20 $100 worth of whiskey, two shots, 20 hurdles, where the whiskey you're gonna love that crap. You don't I'm saying like, that's the advantage of charging so much for something that customers inherently going to like

it. And so what's cognitive dissonance if you feel like, Oh, that was not really exciting,

right? You would have to be so rich, like you would have to be you would have to be billionaire rich to be able to be like, You know what I can be I can be entirely objective about this $1,400 ounce and a half pour of liquor that I just drank. Yeah, they have. So

the place that has a giant wall of bottles that

I wasn't facing a giant wall of bottles and I didn't look around because that's the kind of guy they have really tall ceilings. I'm that guy that like walks in sits down and just stared down his napkin need to think of a different right.

So knowing you by yourself,

I was not by myself. I was like a ChefSteps crew. Yeah. And you're well he's part of the chef's who your boy man, Michael makin. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I said, How do I send the stars? He still loves you? Yeah, the only vegetarian the stars. He likes I said, I said you're still enjoying his cookbook. I said, you know, maybe you should write another another vegetarian cookbook. Yeah, right. Anyway,

I was the only vegetarian that starts likes it's not really that much of a distinction because there's how many people that she likes.

Yeah, but if there's five people that she likes, and only one of them is vegetable, I guess you're right. Yeah. All right. Fair. Fair. So anyway, I went out to ChefSteps and demonstrated the spins all they seem to they seem to enjoy it. Did a Facebook Live, which I still don't really understand on either. I don't like I don't really understand this Facebook Live. I

think it's very new.

That new it's like six months ago. Yeah.

Why would I want that?

Because people can text in as you're doing it. Actually.

That's true. People ask questions. It is useful. It's kind of like this, but with people. Just joking people. I'm just kidding me together. So

we did a Facebook live about the sort of this situation that we've had the other day

deadly. Fire chimed in. So anyway, so during that, like when I visited Kenji, Kenji over in San Francisco, so his digs did the centrifuge demonstration for him. Here's what by the way, we're talking about these spins all which is a new centrifuge, I'm selling on modernist pantry.com forward slash, I'm not gonna say forward slash, sorry, slash it, just slash, it's freakin forward slash back when I was a kid, when I was at Bari, we had backslashes, we had forward slashes, now it's just slash. So modernist pantry.com/spins All we got to So frankly, we got to sell more of these freaking centrifuges. People. I think there's a lot of people out there don't know why they may not you people. If you listen to this, right, mean, you know why you want a centrifuge, but I think a lot of people just don't get why they would want a centrifuge. They only think of these modernist kind of techniques. And I'm like, just to like being able to make strawberry juice all day all night is like enough for me or banana destino, or any one of you

get one better. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's like exponentially cheaper than any other alternative or something like that. Hey,

we actually got a question about the spins on the chat room. What do you guys want to know what would happen if you put molasses in?

Molasses is pretty much a solution. So I don't think it would do much to it. So that's another thing is like most people, what I've realized is, is that I've used a centrifuge for so many freaking years that like I, I kind of know what a centrifuge is going to do and what it's not going to do. But when Kenji said, What should I spin in this and we there was a bunch of responses to him about what we should try to spin in the centrifuge. I kind of realized that people don't really understand what a centrifuge at this kind of level is for. Like, for instance, it's not for clearing meat stocks, although I'm trying to think of a way to do it. It's not for that it's, you know, if you take milk if you take milk with cream, yeah, I can go on homogenized, I can separate it out. But if you take cream, I can make butter. But like molasses, like I say is a solution. There might be some crap floating in the molasses that I can get out. But I'll give you some examples of stuff to do, like see with some sugar stuff. So I did a someone wanted me to do chocolate milk and I'm like, I don't think I'm gonna get a lot out of that. So I wanted to do I did chocolate cream I made like a cocoa cream and then with some sugar in it, and then I spun it hoping to get cocoa butter. Not cocoa butter, but Trump chocolate butter, you know what I mean. And what happened was, I got an amazing, I got a triple separation. So I got like a chocolate buttermilk, which I used to make pancakes, it was very good. Then I got a very light chocolate butter because basically the only chocolate that was in it was in the way that was in it. And then I got a hyper smooth, kind of like cocoa paste like Nutella but totally smooth and liquid, which was pretty awesome as well, because it had been totally hydrated. And I ended up mixing those back together to make like a chocolate butter. But like a chocolate compound butter, it was really good. So you can do that kind of stuff. Or like Greek yogurt, like I can take yogurt, I can remove some of the way they do that, you know, and you get like a you can either do Greek yogurt or like a yogurt cheese, which I mean. So it does that on that kind of dairy but it's not it's for for like clarifying juices, but it's not for like breaking stocks, it's not going to take things that are that don't ever naturally settle or break on their own and make them break, you know, it will spin blood down. I'm told it will spin blood down because it's at the same speed I got a lot of people ask me about that, I guess to fortify blood sausages, or whatever. And that that will work.

Anyway, it's question for you when when was the last time there was a sort of previously inaccessible technology because of the price point that like seriously dropped like this, the circulator

went from about $2,000, the immersion circulator went from about $2,000 in 2002, to about $800 in 2005. Mostly, as a result, the Phillip Preston just wanted more chefs to have them. And so the price got dropped. Because when only labs were buying it labs are relatively inelastic market, there's going to pay whatever you ask. And so when the chef market kind of got big, you know, Philip knew the price needed to drop. So that was kind of the first big price drop $800 is still relatively expensive, but that was the kind of the first explosion in into the market. And that's kind of, you know, I'm taking a bigger price jump there with the spins all so I'm going from an eight to $10,000 machine down to like a $1,000 machine. So I'm trying to hit some of those early adopters who would have gotten an immersion circulator back in the $800 days. Then we pop stewpot, bam, who was one of my interns came out with the no McCoo. And the no mukou was, to my knowledge, the first commercially available sub $500 circulator, and then I think it came in at like 300 and something originally, and then Philip came out with one and then you know, a whole host of others have really driven the circulator market way down until now, it's hard to get someone to pay more than $250 for a circulator. And then you have people adding like ChefSteps, with jewel has added the app and the Wi Fi capability. And so that market is really expanding, I mean, that's the one that's where a previously inaccessible thing has really gotten into, into kitchens. Because the reason it doesn't happen very often is it there's not many technologies that are taken from other realms that have like instant and obvious kitchen applications. Like the blender was like they have laboratory blenders but like the blender was intended to be a piece of kitchen equipment. So you know, and other things are always going to be an accessible like puffing guns or like extruders or, you know, pasta extruders and things like this, the pasta extruders are becoming more popular, but they're at like the three and $4,000 level. So it's it's there aren't going to be that many. There aren't that many things that I've experimented with where I'm like, yeah, that needs to be really popular. immersion circulator was once people you say which one of these technologies is really going to make a big deal. They asked me back in Oh, you know, oh, four, and I was like, Oh, the emergent circulator, clearly, you know, and it's one of the very few things I've been right about, you know, in terms of future predictions. And so the other one that I've always wanted, I want if I want a rotor that to be more accessible to people, but the but the reason I'm not building a road map is that although we could make a more accessible rotor that rotor that it still is not going to have the wide range of use for people that a centrifuge would just because it's always going to no matter how, you know, cheap I make a rotor that no matter how break proof I make a rotor that no matter how bulletproof it is, it's always going to take like a lot of skilled operate one well, and it's going to take a like a fairly steep learning curve, whereas with a centrifuge, once you learn how to use it, you're just pumping product out and so yeah, and also like a roadmap no matter what is going to require chilling, so you're either gonna have to bust through a bunch of ice or you're gonna have to bust through, you know, by a chiller, you know, it needs heat needs all this needs all this ancillary stuff like a lot of power. And so yeah, you know, I always thought the centrifuge is the item that should be available in the kitchen but what it really needed someone to design one for the kitchen Many ways, but we're not selling enough of them. So if you actually ever want there to be a culinary centrifuge, and who knows, maybe in, you know, 10 years if the market or five, six years, if the market opens up more, maybe they'll eventually be a $300. centrifuge, who knows, you know what I mean? Or, you know, a $200 centrifuge, but we're just miss Darcy, and I simply aren't making enough of them. Well, right now we're making zero because we haven't been able to pay for the tooling or the or the production run. But yeah, if you don't buy it, we won't make it.

If I may, I will say that I have the luck slash misfortune of working with you about as much as anybody else. But I will say that, yeah, I mean, I can vouch for the fact that they've puts a ridiculous amount of time and thought into this thing. So if there's anybody who could do it, I mean, really, this is the only product

I really like.

Yeah, yeah, that's because I'll see you hate having to run the normal center finish to next big. Like the lid, like, I'm very thankful that this is not on the list of things, Miss Stassi will never touch again, because the list grows every every day. So not about my centrifuge. But so because I'm working on the centrifuge, I'm getting a lot of tweets in about this coffee machine. Have you heard of it, spin, spin. And so it's a centrifugal coffee machine, it's actually something I've been interested in. So what spin does is they don't show you the inner workings or the guts of it. But what it is, is, it's got a bunch of like, you know, application hoo ha attached to it. You know, you can like make a coffee while you're on the road so that by the time you get home, it's cold and ruined. If that's what you want to do. I'm kidding. But, or you can wake up and you're you could tell Alexa, is it Alexa or Alexis, what's the name of that? Alexa? Alexa? Yeah. Is that a real human name? Or is it named that because it's not a real human name, but don't know. Anyway. And that's Ebru me some coffee. And so the spin like will listen to the Alexa will tell the spin. I saw Kenji, by the way turn on his immersion circulator like that. He was he's like, Alexa, he doesn't talk like that. He's like, Alexa, turn on my jewel and like, and the jewel like turned on and started running hasn't talked like that. So it's

connected to every single appliance with what Bluetooth?

I think it can I think Alexa is just on your network. And so he can probably do a Bluetooth enabled device or a wired wireless device or even a wired device. I think it's just a question of, I don't know how it works, to be honest.

Hopefully, there aren't that many people named Alexa.

I don't have one yet. Remember, the Wizard of Oz. Remember the Wizard of Oz. Like when he's like taking off and like total jumps, and she goes out to get toto and they're like, come back. He's like, I can't I don't know how it works. Remember that there's like one of my favorite like Wizard of Oz lines. But I don't want to go to that. So anyway, so people ask me that the spin. So what it does is it grinds a whole beans, and then presumably puts the beat presumably because I don't know, puts it into the into a basket. dri spins it up there by like evening. And like, you know, pseudo tamping the coffee grounds down, and then introduces the hot liquid to the basket. Well, it's spinning, and in general, because of the force. And the theory is it generates the equivalent of a certain amount of pressure. So by altering the speed at which the basket rotates, it can produce something that is espresso like or drip coffee, like. Now, a lot of people on the internet are like, that won't work. And and people have asked me do you think that will work? And the truth is, I have no way to know because I haven't tested it right. So I will say that there is no way I believe it's going to produce something exactly like espresso. And here's why. When you were when you were making a puck and espresso Puck, right, you're basically you're trying to create a hydraulic pump that, you know, compresses extremely evenly, you then saturate that puck, the puck kind of inflates. And as you force water through it, the fines migrate to the bottom, increasing theoretically, I guess the hydraulic pressure, but at the same time, you're decreasing the amount of solids left, so your rate of water goes through a faster anyway, it's like that, when you are spinning a basket and laying the water in at the same speed, you're compacting pressure is the same as your theoretical liquid pressure walking through now and espresso pub, clearly you're tapping with much less force than you are putting water through. So you get the equivalent of like maybe 20 pounds of force over the entire disk of coffee puck versus 150 psi, you know, of the water pressure coming into it. So clearly, there's a differential there that you can play with with espresso that you're not going to be able to play with, with the spin. The other thing is, I mean that's that's kind of the the main thing I mean, I so it's going to be different. Also in espresso. As soon as the pressure is released, it stops. This is actually going to pull more stuff out of the coffee grounds because of this critical force than you would get if you just forced water under pressure. It's a different kind of a situation now, I did just as a test, take some espresso grinds, mix them with hot water, spin them in the centrifuge for 30 seconds. I got a minute. I got all of the grounds back out. I tasted the coffee. It tasted fine because I wasn't pushing it through. I didn't get any aeration. So I didn't have any of the body that you'd have in a normal espresso cup, it had some of the espresso flavors that you would normally have. And it had zero grinds in it. Because, you know, I was able to spin it fast enough. But I mean, the answer is, I don't know, I'm willing to have a test out a spin machine if someone wants us to test it out. But I don't know. I mean, it could be a way to do individual servings well, as opposed to like those cups. I've never had a cup based machine that I thought was the greatest thing on earth. You ever had a coerced? The worst? Not just bad, the worst? See, a lot of times, Peter, what people are focusing on when they're making those single service things is, is this and this is like not the way I focus in life. But this is a valid thing. Is this single serving better than what the average Joe como will make given a system that they have to control? So if you're dealing with like the EC pods, for instance, the question is, is this EC pod? As good as the greatest espresso that you can make? No, even the guys at? Sorry, Ely. He say he said whatever. Ely is the helipad is good as the best espresso someone can make? No, it is not. And they will admit that. But is it better than what 90% Of the people will make? Yeah. And so if you're one of those 90% of the people that's going to make a garbage espresso, then the Ely pod is a good solution for you, except for the sustainability in the fact that you're hurling all this plastic into the ether. And spin theoretically, if you'd like to coffee it made is going from being to be into cup, so it's not going to have any of those sustainability issues. The the Breville by the way, makes the with the automatic grinding stuff, which I was very dubious of does make a cup better than about 90 What 90% of people would do

I just think there's so many easy ways to make good coffee that Okay, maybe not espresso, but like, I don't see why you want to use Windows machine.

I don't like the word pourover Yeah, right.

What about an AeroPress

and say with an Australian accent? I

can't can you know you hate you have an anti Australian accent? Yeah. What am I living in John's old accent? She's okay. Yeah,

actually. gooseneck things annoy me. What's next? Like that? Someone says it just seems really precious when you're pouring the water over the pour over.

Why do people say precious all the time?

Well, because Peter used to work for precious moments. There's the greatest moment in my life is when Peter brought a picture of himself in like a precious moments like furry outfit, and it was not some sort of cosplay thing. It was his parents made him dressed up for the Hallmark store that where they used to work. Anyway, okay, Brandon wrote it about carbonation. Hey, Bushwick crew. I'm trying to rebuild my carbonation rig with interchangeable adapters, one adapter for the liquid bread carbonator cap, which is the coordinator of capitalist people, and one for a direct injection into an easy whip or into the cream make whip or I hope because I don't really like the soda ones for the really just all you need is the whipped cream one. I have not had any luck getting direct injection from co2 tank to work a co2 tank to work properly. I've tried pressing a small barbed fitting around the EC puncture valve and some co2 gets in but not much does this EC puncture Valve have to be pressed down for proper airflow. We'd love any suggestions on how to get this working. Thanks, Brandon. Okay, Brandon, you're in a little bit of a pickle here. Here's why you do not need to press on that valve to get it to work. However, when ever when you're putting a cartridge onto that thing, what happens is the cartridge gets punctured, pushes against that rubber rubber grommet and is injected into the ECM under high pressure because remember, that cartridge contains either nitrous or co2 at a normal temperature in the atmosphere of roughly 800 psi. So it's shooting in there and shooting in a a particular weight of co2 or of nitrous a weight, not a pressure. And so because of that, that check valve doesn't have to be put to have a particularly low what they call cracking pressure. And so there's a good five psi, I haven't measured it in many years, but it's a good five psi of overpressure required to get any flow at all through that AC valve. What what I used to do in the day was I would build an adapter that actually had the cheapest, easiest way to do it if you don't have access to a machine shop or anything like that is to take your your BB thing, push it against the thing gently then screw like put some release agent please put a boat ton of release agent like do not allow epoxy to get onto your actual EC whip or cut off. You know say I'm talking about the thing that you screw the chargers on with, cut that off and then embed the thing. embed your your barbed fitting and all that into it and seal the top with epoxy this way. When you screw it down tight. You have a fitting that can screw and unscrew onto it easily but it's never going to be ideal because of the pressure drop you're getting across that so if you're trying to set your tank to have the correct pressure for carbonation with a normal carbonated per capita, the free flow situation, you're never going to get the same amount, we have to force it through a through that check valve. And that's going to become even more apparent when you're trying to shake and get that last little bit of carbonation. And because right there, you're driving carbonation and under what is essentially equilibrium pressure. So it's difficult. The way that I did it when I really wanted to carbonate in easy bottles from a tank and I did because when I opened Booker and DAX originally, that's how I thought I was going to do it. I, I took a made a, I took an old EC whip ahead, you can get them on eBay, real cheap, that are plastic, they used to make plastic zipper heads for their non commercial for their home line. But this the screw threads are the same. I then cut everything off of that thing that I wanted. I bought like, you know screw in valves a tapped, I put basically Bondo on it, tapped it with a drill and a tap. And then I cast it in a cast at first and silicone to make a mold, and then did a bunch of food grade polyurethane cast to make a bunch of carbonation heads that fit directly on to an EC Whipper. They use EC brand, gaskets, seals, etc, etc. And that's actually what I was going to use to open the bar with. But you know, it takes a little bit of work, but I mean, okay, it takes a lot of work. But if you're going to do it for a living, it's and you really want to do it. It's worthwhile. Anyway, that answer that question? Yes. Yes. Julian writes in about su vida sauce. Hey, all I'm writing asking about making sauces with the liquid left in low temperature Suvi bags. I'd like to use this to make a simple pan sauce just mixed with stock or red wine, but the delicious suevey Liquid quickly curdles whenever I heat it further, to reduce it, leaving my reductions with weird textures. Beyond weird. It's freaking gross. It looks like we'll get into in a second. It is my best bet to curdle it and strain out the curves. Yes. That was easy.

But why don't you take another 10 minutes to answer the question.

Is there some way I can prevent them? Is there some way I can prevent the protein from curling or at least get some flavor out of it? Thanks for any tips, Julian, I don't know actually, the non a tips to prevent the curling that you would really want to do like you could probably very heavily salted or very heavily sugar it. But yeah, the way to do it is to as soon as it comes out, just break it really quickly and then strain it and like it's just it's just protein that's in solution. And it's never been raised at a temperature that makes it that makes it curdle. And so it comes out and that's it. You know, the same way that if you cook a fish too high, like that liquid will come to the top and then once the heat hits it, it goes white, it turns white. It's that same sort of stuff. It's the stuff that when you start heating floats up to the top as pawns come when you're cooking meats and you got to get rid of it. Okay, family meal. Yeah, family meal. Well, you know that story that I was going to tell he tells right eating the raft. I think about it, look at it, like leaving the raft. So anyway, so yeah, so the quickest, easiest way around it is to just heat it and then strain it. And as a side note, a lot of times when you do that, the liquid will actually self clarify because the proteins as they coagulate will hold on to some of the cloudy bits to begin to self clarify that I talk about self clarifying cordials Yes. All right. There you go. Done. So there you have it. Now the problem with that of course is you're going to lose some of the product when it curdles if not a lot less so. I don't know whether you want to add some product to it then kertel It then strain it. But we should take a break. Take a break, take a break and come right back recruiting issues.

Ever wonder where your Christmas tree came from? Now you don't have to New York State grown Christmas trees are now available in New York City. trees grown on farms here in New York State are harvested just a few days before arrival to the city. Trees cut close to home stay fresh longer, and trees cut close to home travel less, which reduces fuel consumption of delivery vehicles. Did you know that buying a real tree helps to sustain agriculture in New York State by supporting local farmers and keeping important open space and agricultural production. The Christmas tree Farmers Association of New York is partnering with Grow NYC to make farm fresh trees and reads available at Green markets in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan. So when you shop local this holiday season, you can include the tree in that list. For more information and a full list of locations, visit Christmas trees and y.org.

And we are back. So Christmas tree farms Stassi. Do you know how long it takes to grow Christmas tree You know, seven years, really about seven years. So I'm told in Oregon I know a guy who's a Christmas tree farmer in Oregon. And he was like, yes, but seven years for the trees to get fully mature.

I have to say, it always weirds me out to see right after Christmas, how everybody just Chuckster

wanting to do it. First of all, I know. First of all, I wish we had the Christmas tree farmers in New York here because you are providing jobs for someone. You don't mind wiping your butt with paper and flushing it down the toilet. Instead you get enjoyment from a tree. It makes your whole house smell nice. It provides jobs. It's like low impact farming that you can do on a travel plan.

Did you get one?

Was it a tree?

No. Did you get one from New York State?

I don't I don't have a tree.

Why do you not have a tree? So I saw hipster walking down a tree with something that looks theoretically nice, but it's not. Here's what they did. They had a big piece of tree that they cut a disc at if they drill the hole in the center. Then they took their Charlie Brown tree right? And they shaved off the bottom of the trunk like a cork so it fit into the hole in the tree. But this is a far cry from the old time old time you had that little wooden cross. And you nailed it from underneath. Now that's okay, because you're not shaving off all of the xylem How the hell is this little tree supposed to drink? If you shave off? All of it. xylon sad sad. So sad. So yesterday, Sunday yesterday, I'm gonna have something that looks like all old school way but like it's like it's like, um, it's more dead than dead. It's not see a tree is basically a cut flower. I mean, like, you know what I mean? You have to treat it like a cut flower. And would you sit there with Sony and you cut flowers? Would you be like eggs and then take the stem and crush it between your finger ends? Depends on I know you're you're the master of what's the book Anastasia?

The grown we flower decorating book.

Anastasia is a firm believer if she hates almost everybody. I've ever been to the restaurant. Yeah. But anyway, they're flower decorating. It's a lager and we love frogs are feminine. Yes. Okay, so it's LeBron we apparently they have like one of the Okay Do they say it say it excellent. Or not say it now said with African French accent Oh, geez. Do it. No, you're gonna maybe do it. You're not bringing me that's where you learn French. So you're not funny. That's true. He learned French initially with an African accent it's true. Yeah.

Well, you just instead of the hell you do a roll Darren said Dave just waiting expect not

gonna do it. Peters not gonna do it. He does a good he does a good accent anyway. But the one we're talking about so flower decorate and that's like that's you actually like the goal? Yeah. But it's it treats every different flower in a different way. The way it's supposed to be treated with anyone's cut. Yes. Back to Christmas tree farms. Do you remember the first one of the last things we did the first things we did for Booker and DAX when the last things we did was Anastasia Anna at the French culinary and Stassi I went down and got a Christmas tree. And they're like this one. Look. They're like don't care don't care. Let's just smelling the Christmas trees and figure out which one we like. Yeah, love, took it back up to the French Culinary Institute and then completely denuded it of needles. We just took the Christmas tree and instantly stripped all the new needles off of it. And people were like, What are you doing? What are you doing? Shut up. And then we like, distilled the entire tree. Yeah, we sat there and distilled the entire trip. Yeah. It's pretty true road map. And then we made like 1500 Pine drinks for MTV. Remember that? Oh, yeah, it was like MTV. We did all of those pine things. And that's actually where I was using those EC bottles that I'm angry

at that event. And remember why that wasn't? That

was the one where I didn't even read at an event. No, that's no, that's the event where Remember, all I did was shake. We had one fun. We had one person who batched one person who is who added ice to the ECS. I shook all night long and another person had poured because we were just there was just boom, boom, boom, and we were carbonating a minute. Remember that? 1500 Drinks ridiculous. For dinner people. God knows how many drinks? Yeah, yeah, Christmas trees. Fine.

So our auction went for $2,550.

That is very nice. We're not going to call out who bought it. But we eagerly await you coming and sitting down and cookies. Remember though, when you show up a cooking issue, you're going to get dragged into the conversation. It's just the way it works. And also through the mud. Well, no, I mean, we're nice to guess I think except Peter. And we also like to thank during the fundraising drive these people for supporting heritage Radio Network. On behalf of cookies program, Peter, Gregory Carlos Zachary Thomas. Tad Co. Oh, like him. Remember he bought us to Modernist Cuisine book. He's down in where's he Texas, Texas, I think, Nick and Mark anyway, thanks so much, folks for supporting cooking issues in the heritage Radio Network. Next, we got Matt Cholet writes in from Seattle, dear Anastasia and Dave, thanks for the show. My question covers cocktails acidic things like lime juice. his orange juice and even some sodas tend to really upset my stomach. I'm a big fan of margaritas though mean who isn't really margaritas a delicious me as long as you drink alcohol Margarita is delicious. Do you like margaritas? Peter love margaritas. Miss dassia? Okay. What do you suggest? My question has three parts. What do you suggest I used to bring lime juices pH up to seven. So I can see what cocktails tastes like with lime flavor, but without the sour baking soda comes to mind, but I suspect that will compromise the drinks flavor it will and by the way, you're never going to get it all the way up to seven I don't think I'm guessing sour is pretty essential to the drinks tastes but only loosely correlated with the actual acidity such that there are substances such as their substances packing equivalent sourness to lime juice, at least drinks, pH closer to neutral, any thoughts of some options? And finally, do you have any ideas for a solid lemon lime juice substitution that I could request at a bar asking for a margarita shaken with an acid tablet seems unworkable for multiple reasons. I tried my making myself just a quadro tequila and simple syrup drink but it wasn't particularly good. And I don't imagine that it would be I remember, if you are going to reduce the acid you have to also reduce the sugar by a lot lot. And if you're going to make low acid drinks in general, this is not answering your question, but I wish I will answer in a minute. But when you're making a drink that doesn't have any acid in it like an old fashioned like typically to add brightness to an old fashioned. First of all, remember it has a minimal amount of sugar. So a two ounce pour on an old fashioned is not very diluted and has about a quarter of an ounce to three eighths of an ounce of normal or 50%. Simple stepping in to add brightness to that a twist and the ascent of the central oil from like either a grapefruit or a lemon or an orange or sometimes a lime. Although I'm not a huge fan, most of the time of lime twist. That fresh, bright, inherently sick citrus note of those oils gives you a sense of freshness, which is part of what acidity brings is a freshness. So you should always start by if you're going to reduce the acid if not eliminate the acid adding twist to things because that's going to help punch up the brightness. Also, reducing sugar content substantially is going to allow you to use less acid a higher anytime you have a high sugar content, you're going to require more acid to balance it out. So if you were allowed to have minimal amounts of acid like they're in sodas, like you say, you might want to switch to carbonated margaritas because carbonated margaritas have less sugar, more water but less sugar overall and also less acid. And they're delicious. But what I would not do baking soda, because it's going to make it salty and weird, I would actually try I was going to try it myself. But I don't have any left at the house sodium citrate. So sodium citrate is a salt of citric acid, but it acts as a buffer. And I did some basic calculations. So the classic Margarita spec that we use, has in it about is about 172 milliliters after it's been shaken and strain, and contains about 1.34 grams of acid as citric, it's actually mix of citric and malic. And that ends up being a molarity of 0.04%. And a titratable acidity of roughly point seven, eight. Orange juice, on the other hand, has a an acidity of 0.8 have titratable acidity of 0.8. Now, I test it, if you go on the online and you look up the pH of something that has a citric acid with the molarity of point oh four, you get a pH of 2.29. However, orange juice which has a very, very similar titratable acidity, very simple similar molarity has a pH of 3.3 to almost up to four and the reason the pH is higher is because not all of that citric acid is going to you know deprotonate it's not going to the words not coming to my mind, it's not going to turn to acid, they're not going to actually reduce the pH as much. But anyway, so what you're looking at with a Margarita is basically the acidity of orange juice. And so I would just test with orange juice because it's a lot cheaper to test orange juice than otherwise and I would add to your orange juice for every like 172 grams of of orange shoes. If you add about a gram and a half of sodium citrate, you might increase the sourness but you're definitely going to also increase the pH you might be able to knock it up like like a whole point which is a log level 10 times less acidity. Now you said that I should recommend a pH meter to you so that you can get one I don't use them in the bar because I care only about the taste which is correlated more to titratable acidity and less to pH but for your case where you're actually trying to reduce the actual acidity. You get a PhD to go ahead and get one if it's me telling you to get one house you get one get one. The one I use is the X tech. I pH meter is a little bit of a pain in the butt because you have to You change out the sensors. And once the sensors dry out, they kind of lose their efficacy. There's some cheaper ones out there now on Amazon that I don't have any experience with the X tech is not that much more expensive and I know it works. So anyway, there you go.