Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Hello, welcome to Cooking YouTube. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking shows coming to you

live on

the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from late this time but actually doing a half hour show I think this time but from roughly 12 Till you know roughly 1245 Like you know top 55 Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn joined as usual with Anastasia hammer Lopez, how're you doing? Stassi Yeah, we got Dave in the booth. How you doing Dave?

I'm good. How are you doing?

Doing all right. Oh, we just got some birch syrup in from Zan says hey, cooking issues. Greetings from Alaska. Here's some birch syrup from my hometown. Enjoy. And then I guess they're from Homer because it says Homer couple taps tree so I assume that's Homer, Alaska. Yeah. Now the only birch syrup I've ever had before, was I think I mentioned this on the air which is maybe why Zan sent it to us. The only birch syrup I've had before was flawed. And by flawed I mean like extremely acidic as though something either the SAP was extremely high acid or something had grown in it and I didn't know whether that's just the way what you hear crinkling in the background is not mouth noises please don't be afraid because the issues people it's the Stasi unwrapping the birch syrup. It's wrapped in bubble wrap and aluminum foil to prevent the alien race from getting to it. One thing I have to say is and it takes a lot of guts to wrap stuff in aluminum foil because you never know some lunatic might be like, I can't see through it with my machine. So I'm gonna open it up. You know what I mean? Yeah, never tell you about the time I ordered that espresso machine. And they didn't drain the boiler and they originally packed it okay, but then when they shipped it to me a little water had dripped out so UPS completely unpacked it and when they packed it they're like that's when they threw the entire thing back in the box without the packing and then rattled it around over and over and over again and when they showed it up every single panel was shattered and broken cheese I got that espresso machine basically for free. I'm still using it to this day who this looks nice tasteful taste here that's good. It is actually tart but this one is not flood so birch syrup must be inherently tartar than what's it called? Maple but I think this is delicious. This is a much superior product to the one that I that I tried before you get to your finger in that it's pure syrups does she's not going to go they're not gonna go there. What do you think? What do you think though? That's good. I like it is delicious and it looks to be about that. To test it looks to be about 66 bricks. And the company for those of you that are keeping track of such things is bridge Creek, birch syrup 1% of your pure birch syrup made in Homer, Alaska. Well, thanks so much. Was love doing a taste test? Tomorrow I fly out to Portland to have some truffle. So more on that next week when I'm back. Anything good going on assess, you know, I hadn't Good. Have we talked about the house? Guest Olympics? No. All right. This is something I think that now this is something that Jen and I did back when we were in our early 20s. But I think it's just as valid now. And I meant to talk to miss Darcy. But this is just super valid for you. Especially for Anastasia because she has so many poor house guests. But Jen and I used to we always wonder when people come over. Like who raised you, you know what I mean? Like, where did you come from? Like, how did you show up at my house completely empty handed, make a huge mess, and then just hightail it out and like, leave me with all this garbage. Right? Like, how did that happen? Right. Dave, you have this problem? Do you invite people over to your house? Yeah, but I've never really been stiffed like that. Not that I can recall. You have good house. So here's what here's what you do. There's there's dinner. But there's also people who come and stay at stay at your place. And so what we did is we started kind of the house guest Olympics. And we would rank people when they came over. And we didn't tell people that we were ranking them maybe a little bit we did. But it's like we were like ranking people. And we really got a sense for kind of who people were with this kind of a house guest the Olympics like that. The person who clearly wins the house gets to Olympics is my cousin Nathan, who whenever he shows up, Nathan Yeah, he shows up with stuff. The guy doesn't like dessert. So like at the end of dinner when everyone's eating dessert, he's in the in the dish, like area, cleaning all of the dishes. And so he shows up, brings you stuff has good conversation, doesn't talk about stuff that pisses everybody off. Like as we'll talk, you know how when you have that one felt like cooking issues, not like cooking issues, you don't have that one person, there's always that one person that you invite, who doesn't say anything, and you're like, oh my god, who's going to talk to that one person doesn't say anything. You know who that guy is Nathan Nathan's that guy that will go talk to that person at your house and not make it awkward that there's that person in the corner. That's just basically you know, capillary action, sucking all of your wine even out of the bottles. You don't even know where it's going. But they're in the corner, like sucking up all the wine and not saying anything to anyone Nathan's the guy that will talk to them and clean your dishes. So that is like, that's like gold medal like 10.0 floor routine, like house can guess the Olympics but I recommend to all you people out there that you start keeping track of the house guests the Olympics. And then if you let people know maybe people get better, maybe people get better. Doesn't that sound nice? And says you should read all your friends when they all fail?

No, they're not as bad as you think.

Like if they're not as bad. Not as bad as they were a

lot younger back eight years ago when I met you. So

yeah, but no, it's like the stats. He says they're not as bad as you think the only thing I know about them is what Mr. Garcia tells me. They were bad eight years ago. Uh huh. So you're saying they've graduated? No offense to the yellowtail Corporation, but they're they graduated beyond? Yes. Yes. They're no longer come over your house and say, I'm not bringing any wine because I'm not drinking today. And then they drink wine anyway.

That hasn't happened in a while

many years, like two weeks now. Anyway, house gets Olympics. So we have some questions in Vincent wrote in from Michigan regarding salting we didn't deal with any. The only thing we dealt with was rabbits. Right? Yeah. Right, right. Okay. I only recently found out about cooking issues. I've been listening through the back catalogue. I'm only at episode 120. But everything's been good. By the way. What Episode Are we on now? I have no idea. Dave, what episode is this?

Let me check the archives one second.

First, I would like to thank you for opening my eyes to the a wonder that is the music of Daryl Hall and John Oates. That's straight out to you, Anastasia. Although you went to go see them in concert bad? Well, bad. For what reason? Were they actually bad? Are you going to be disappointed you because he kept on trying to be younger and hitting on the women?

And what's it called jamming?

Oh, you hate jamming? Yeah, you hate all forms of No, I

mean, they're not a jazz band.

But as far as you know, is that the first time you ever saw them live? Yeah, but how do you know that? They're not a jam band? Well,

don't jam bands. Like if the jam bands Jam Band. It's played like that on the radio, right?

No, I mean, they use jam bands don't usually get played on the radio.

Well ever. The Allman Brothers raises the question where they're holding his agenda in

the heart. The question is, is why would you assume that haunt me? I would assume that they're not because they're like 80s that just like, you know, 80s like I assume that they only come out of like boombox stereo speakers. That's what I assume that they come out of, but I mean, like, No, I mean, like people. What you hear from the Allman Brothers is like Rambling Man that sounds like two minutes and 35 seconds full dead. Grateful Dead is not played on the radio. Yes, it is. What radio plays a Grateful Dead they didn't when I was A kid. Yeah, they play them like what

they play like the shorter songs like like touch of gray or

no touch of Gray was like their lead. Yeah, that's the least Grateful Dead song on Earth. Touch of gray that was like after like they'd already done anything they were gonna do you ever hear like, you never hear like Casey Jones on the radio do what medium and I went to the radio I did back when I was younger to the radio now. Not now. No offense radio people but the point is that when I was growing up what's wrong with radio when I was growing up? Nothing when I was growing up, when, like, when the Grateful Dead was actually playing, you know what I mean? And not just like doing like, you know, reunions when they're all like half of them are dead back when they were actually a band and no one had died yet. Miraculously. That stuff was not on the radio at all. You know what I mean? Anyway, I don't know. Do they play fish on the radio? Not that I know of. Other stations.

I listen to

Dave Matthews. Yes. They play him. That's the jam band. Right? Do they play long? Like 20 minute songs on the radio and songs? And I

don't think anybody plays 20 minute songs or did 10 minute

on the radio? Yes. On regular radio. Yeah. Radio. These people out here eating pizza would listen to?

I don't think hipsters listen to am FM radio.

They should they should. They should listen to am only but yeah, only in mono. It's

taking a weird turn.

Yeah. Anyway. All right, Vincent, what was the actual question? Oh, no. He just mentioned Hall notes. And so we're talking about music in Holland, by the way. Oh, we've only gotten through the preamble of that little little story a little story. Nastasia Lopez is a classic Anastasia, by the way, once bought tickets to see Billy Joel at one of his Madison Square Garden performances. And as anyone who knows us personally knows both fans of Billy Joel we'd like Billy Joel. You know, I grew up close enough to Long Island. I don't know where Anastasia got her love of Billy Joel. But like, you know, I like I love myself and Billy Joel. Anastasia buys herself tickets day to go like this ticket to go alone. So Anastasia buys a ticket. And then so adorable. Then we're at an event together literally working an event. And by the way, it was a garbage event. I don't even remember what it was. And she goes, Oh my God. I'm supposed to be at Billy Joel. I just missed the Billy Joel concert. First of all, I didn't need her to be at the event. She could have gone to the Billy Joel concert. She knows it. She doesn't blame me for this. She just forgot she had the concert. But here's the kicker Dave. This isn't this. This is pure Anastasia Lopez. Miss Tassia will never buy again. A Billy Joel ticket even though she desperately wants to go but she's going to punish herself because No, I already bought that ticket. And I didn't get to see it. So now she's never going to allow herself to see Billy Joel again. Eve and this reminds me is Billy Joel. A friend of mine, Luciano lutea. And Guido went to go see him last week at the garden said it said he did some jams. But said it was great. It's still good. Maybe someday. Maybe someday I'll buy you a ticket or maybe something like cooking issues and Myra will send you a Billy Joel ticket to the I don't want anybody to pay for it. But the Stasi the only way you get to go see Billy Joel and concert ticket as an extra ticket. Lots of people to whatever, whatever. I don't know. Again, I don't know how we got Oh, another thing. Did you know that Ringling Brothers Barnum Bailey Circus is closing you know that nobody cares for me. Nobody cares, my sister. She's gonna go. I don't think so. I might go there. It's at Barclays Center in like February March. I need to find someone who cares to go with me.

When's the last time you went to the circus that's one of those things that you just forget even exists anymore. When an elegance it doesn't

when Booker was very small. I took him but I used to I used to my grandparents lived in right near Sarasota. So they took me to see them during the during their practice when they weren't on the road because that's where both troops would train. Like they used to, you know, they were like a railroad only show for a long time. So in New York, they used to march all of their animals from the railroad depot in Brooklyn, or queens, maybe through the Midtown Tunnel. And then they would walk from the Midtown Tunnel over to the garden where where it was, where it was going on. And so you could go in the middle of the night and watch the entire circus parade all of the animals through the tunnel and out it was not like miniature horses. Good business anyway, and end of an era.

We should get to the question for another time. Okay.

So here's the questions they have. I read this article and it says from food and wine, written by Oliver funner Albright years ago, like four or five years ago, where the author's you can find it on the on the internet. It's called the juicy secret to seasoning meat, where the author's experiment resulted in the conclusion that different meats or cooking methods require different timings for salting the meat for best results. Does this match your experience and knowledge? Is there any sort of best practice guideline for which kinds of meat or which cooking method should have salt applied at certain times? And then second question was I had once read that donco Pork belly where the eye once had read cook donco Pork belly where they chose that was so soft and tender that had almost a texture of cream caramel. How can I achieve this? Keep up the good work cookies use tea. All right, so let's go in reverse order for the pork belly. It's been a long time since I've made that but if it's not soft, I think you have two things. Most people who do it right, they do like a lot of kind of scraping of the skin beforehand, and some people will even needle it and this lets like some stuff kind of come out of it. And then they do your initial typically a blanch step. And then after the blanch step, then comes the first which is kind of a braised slash theme over a bed of like scallions and ginger with the rock sugar and the red in the dark and the light soy sauce, right. And then after that, so crappy recipes would probably aren't as good just do that until the kind of the meat is done to good recipes, then take it out of that, put it in an individual steamer, and then steam the bejesus out of it with some of the juice but so that it's no longer evaporating anymore. And they do that until fundamentally the fat is totally kind of broken down. And you know everyone has their own recipe whether they do it skin side up or skin side down. Most people I know do it skin side down and flip it skin side up. Although I saw a place that did it that flipped it three times. Right so I think a lot of it just has to do with that secondary steam step. I don't know how important the initial scraping or needling of it is. But it's a good product you like do you like pork belly when the skin is not crunchy stars or do you only like it when skins crunchy when it's crunchy? Unless it's like in a in a steamed bun or something like this? But you don't like just a big chunk of red pork? I do I love that stuff. Dave you you like you like the gooey pork belly fat or do you like it only when dead skin has been crucified?

Yeah, I guess to paraphrase haulin oats, I could go for that.

You could go for that. Yeah, no kidding me? Well, they said no can do that's what I said paraphrase. Well, it's more like anti phrase and stasis more paraphrasing. She's like no can do there was

a steel drum player playing that song on a 59 sheet. So hate steel

drums. Yeah. Oh, why do you hate steel? Drums? Is it because you hate Caribbean people? Or like,

that's quite a leap. But no.

Why do you hate steel? Trump's?

I don't know if it is annoy me?

Yep. What about when they have two different steel drums and they can play two different notes at once. Don't care. What about the fact that they make their own instruments? That's pretty baller.

I guess that's cool.

I tried to make one once when I was a kid. You know what I was unsuccessful? Like I was able to cut yourself. Yeah, not that I cut myself I don't remember I was very young. Although I remember this. If you people, if you're going to try to make your own steel drum, the most important thing is you have to be able to take the 55 gallon drum and then like kind of depress it out, right. And that's kind of what I didn't do. I didn't have enough heat to really be able to bend that whole kind of drum thing out. But I spent the whole Dang day doing it. And I just remember being really disappointed because as like, you know, an 11 year old I was like man steel drums are cool. But apparently you guys were like, steel drums are for jerks and Kuhlmann not cool. I don't know. What does it mean? I don't know what the cooking issues crowd thinks of the steel drums showroom. Any thoughts? I don't know. So to go back to the question of salting. Salting is both much easier and much more complicated than you'd think salting does a number of things. Salting obviously makes things taste better. Right. So like so salt, in general is good. When you're talking about salting meats before or after or during, what you really want to do is focus on what you're attempting to do with with the meat. So a very long of assaulting like a long time before where the salt actually gets to penetrate into the interior the meat, right for a meat it's going to be overcooked anyway, when I say overcooked, I mean cooked above rare, medium rare, then in general, the salt is going to allow the meat to hold on to more water, right. So you're not only going to season it, but you're going to allow the meat to hold on to more water has more water absorption. However, it also has a kind of firmer texture once it's been salted than it would otherwise. And this is due to a number of reasons one, and I don't think it's primarily dehydration, I think it's primarily because you're solubilizing some proteins that come out and form a gel with it. So it kind of firms up so salting firms, the meat and you can think about this very clearly if you think about when you saw the fish and you let it sit for a long time the flesh gets a good bit firmer. The same thing happens when you're doing pork or a steak or something like this. And so when I'm going to eat something that is rare or medium rare, and I'm going to let it sit for a long time, right then I don't want to assault it more than about an hour or two before it's going to get eaten because I don't want the interior of that meat to For him up on me, this is specifically with kind of low temperature cooking. Now, if you're going to do it on the grill, right, then you can just under cook the inside a little bit more. And you could solve it way beforehand, it's probably not going to affect it too much, it'd be a little firmer, but it's not going to be a big deal. But once you cook the entire piece of meat, up to, let's say, 5555 and a half, it's not that overcooked if you sold it a long time before, but it's just a little bit firmer, and it has a little bit less of that kind of steak texture that rare medium rare has where it be starting on talking about where it goes from that point of being kind of like where it's still kind of moves independently, it feels kind of like, you know, three chairs or a cozy, it still feels like, like, like me, and then it goes all of a sudden, to being that cooked meat where it's like one piece now it doesn't kind of move independently. And it's that firming that happens when you sold far in advance on pieces of meat that that you want to have that texture on. And so those are the only real things that I take into account. So that's, you know, that's kind of the big. That's kind of the big difference. So what happened is that person, the one that they hated the most is they pre salted the heck out I think it's it's been two weeks since I read it, but they pre salted the heck out of a pork line, which is already kind of garbagey carbon is a good piece of meat, but it's typically overcooked. And then they went ahead and overcooked it. And so they salted it. They salted it all the way through. Now it's already firm. And so it's going to tend to be dry. I think I can't remember exactly what the pork one was the one that they had the difference in, just think about it this if you're going to overcook it, then salting it in my mind is usually good way to go. Because it's going to hold on to more water. If you are and it's going to get textures if you need it to taste more rare and an adult on a adulterated like pure steak, and you're going to cook it for hours and hours low temp, then salt. Right before you're going to sear it or something like this. But that's basically what I do. Anyway. Anyone who disagrees with me, they're welcome to get on and disagree with me.

Everywhere you go, you wanna take a call? Yeah, sure. All right, caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, this is Chris from Green Zone in DC. How you doing?

Good. All right, what's going on?

Got a question. I have been using your milk washing technique for coffee infused booze from liquid intelligence for a while. And it's always worked pretty well. Except this last time last night. I did it exactly. As always, as written in the book. And the liquid basically didn't clarify. And so I'm trying to filter the booze out of the milk curds and it's I've gone through like three coffee filters and it's a giant pain in the butt. And I'm wondering what could have happened?

Same recipe. Yeah, exact same, same milk,

the same type of milk and I'm using for like whole milk might have been different brands.

The only times I've had it really fail on me was I've used Ultra patch pasteurized milk. In fact, it was an IT MIGHT there might be a range, right? So I'll give you an example. So like I normally use regular pasteurized, whole milk. But when I went to Spain last time, they got me that wretched kind of boxed Parmalat milk, which is like ultra highs, like sterilized milk. It did not work at all. So maybe there's some in between zone and the ultra pasteurizing zone where it doesn't work doesn't work at you know, we're partially works. You know what I mean?

This says pasteurizer will say ultra pasteurized, but it also says non homogenized. So I don't know if that makes a difference.

That's interesting. I have never tried it with non homogenized milk before. I'd be interested to try it with non homogenized milk. But you see it did form a curve. It just didn't curve very well.

It's no opposite actually happened. The curves were much chunkier than usual. But it didn't filled with a lot of like normally when I do and it forms occurred and I put it in the fridge overnight, and there's a clear layer of who's on top. The booze was cloudy.

Oh, so there was a curd layer but the booze layer was still cloudy. Yeah. I wonder whether I wonder whether it's some sort of like excess fat in it from it not being homogenized. Could be Hmm Hmm. I don't know. I'll have to test it with some non homogenized milk and see what's going on but it could be that it could be that the something about the fat not not coming. Did it still function well just didn't look right. Clean. It seemed fattier.

I've always filtered it through a coffee filter. And it usually it can you know filters out pretty quickly but the Some have gone through three coffee filters and still not done.

I hate coffee filters so much. I wish I could throw it into a centrifuge.

I funded the spins off. I hope it gets into production. Me to

meet it we're working on we'll have some more announcements in the next couple of weeks. Right says, Yeah, but you know, I think it's I think it's looking. I think it's looking better. I think it's looking good. I think I think we're gonna make it happen. What do you think this is? Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

When you do it, do you use whole milk. You said I use

whole milk, but I use whole like supermarket like, you know, regular supermarket milk, like soy homogenized, pasteurized milk. I know it doesn't work with Parmalat. And maybe it doesn't work as well with with our centrifuge with non homogenized, but it's something to check. And like I said, I'd be interested in throwing it into a fuse to see whether it would spin out.

Yeah, I would imagine it would but well, I guess next time, I'll just try the regular homogenized stuff. That's

cool. All righty. Let me know. All right. Thanks, Michael. Nate Simon wrote in from Sacramento, what do you need to get to your events? Yeah, but let me just take do a couple more of like, you know, start late and late. I'm not sure one. What are you gonna be? I'll be No, I wanna start. I want to end lately, but I mean, like, you know, later than I need. I'm a big fan of cooking vegetables. This is from Simon, Nate Simon in Sacramento. What do you think of sactown stuff? Yeah. Fine, fine. She's like, I don't care about Sacramento. just speed it up. That's the hand motion that you can't see that she's making. Name me lose my place. See, I'm a big fan of cooking vegetables in a pressure cooker, which I then puree for soups. I do like the ability of the pressure cooker to caramelize the vegetables. However, most recipes recommend adding a small amount of baking soda to facilitate the mind reaction. Remember though, you got to keep straight the difference between caramelization which is a sugar only thing in my yard, which is reducing sugar and proteins and we often say caramelized, when we actually mean my yard. But like something like a carrot actually also has enough sugar in it that at higher temperatures anyway, actual criminalisation can take place. And sugars, in fact can caramelize on their own in a pressure cooker under the right circumstances, ie with baking soda. So in a pressure cooker with a high sugar item there are as there is actually both mild reactions and caramelization reactions going on in a basic environment, ie alkaline environment. But it's something to keep track of. I find that even with small amounts of baking soda less than 0.5% I can still taste it. I call it the pretzel taste. I'm wondering if the baking soda is absolutely necessary? Could the vegetables just be cooked for a longer period of time and get the same degree of caramelization? Well, again, it's a question is is it caramelization? Or is it my iron? Is there any other alkalizing agent that can be used, it doesn't give that funny side taste. Thanks. And best wishes, Nate Simon, I don't know I haven't run a lot of the tests, you could just try to cook it longer, but longer might mean like twice as long and see kind of what happens. It's possible also like if you were to allow more liquid to evaporate off, then the temperature would go kind of even higher, but you'd run into some problems with scorching at that point, unless you are doing the kind of trivet and jar technique. I've done some like ultra high temperature ones where I have pre reduced gotten some you know liquid out and then put them in in oil. And if it's not really safe, I wouldn't really recommend doing it and I can get like much higher temperatures that way. Lastly, I want to make sure that you meet you should just try it and see whether you like the result just do it for twice as long and see what happens. But I would also say I don't know whether the recipes that you're using. Have you neutralized the baking soda a little bit. Unfortunately baking soda doesn't neutralize to salt and water the way that like hydrochloric acid and and lye would do. But it does it note neutralizes to sodium acetate which has a little bit of a vinegar live like. So if you use acetic acid, then it will I think it will go to sodium acetate. Right? Yes, it will go to sodium acetate and then that will have that's what they use for Salt and Vinegar Potato chips. So if you want a little bit of a vinegar taste to it, you can try to neutralize it with a little bit of vinegar. You could try to use a tiny pinch of foodgrade tiny pinch of food grade sodium hydroxide, and then but I wouldn't use HCL for it. So you're still going to have an acetate ion in there when you neutralize it but I would just be careful as everyone knows lie in the kitchen can be dangerous if you don't label your containers and you tasted like a jerk. Lastly, Zach writes in about low temperature meets my wife family, my wife's family routinely commits work Prime level overcooking of any meat. As a result, I'm increasingly volunteered to host or bring entrees to family events. This has led to a secondary problem. They won't eat anything that is even pink inside poultry, pork and even beef. I can't bring myself to intentionally overcook. And I think they would actually like to eat things that are cooked much less if they can get past a psychological barrier. So is there a way with low temp cooking to greatly reduce the amount of redness in a cook piece of meat without actually cooking it more? Ie could I enzymatically degrade the hemoglobin? It's not hemoglobin by the way it's myoglobin or otherwise catalyzes degradation at a lower temperature. And then the second point you have is have you ever noticed that when toasting almonds that if you taste them while they're still hot, they're textures on and off, putting an end flavor even seems to be off, I think it's more of a texture issue. But it could be a flavor thing because of the volatiles coming out of especially if you leave the skins on, but once they cool, they get that great crunchiness and texture what's going on there, I think what's going on there is the protein. It's like a protein gel and when it's hot it with any residual moisture, it's just a little bit rubbery and then when it cools down, it gets all nice and solid. Remember roasting you're actually flashing off almost all the water so it's I think it's basically just that that protein gel back to your meats. The problem with meats is that when you vacuum pack or cook something low temperature in a bag or anything like this, you're a lot of the myoglobin is in its deoxygenated state deoxy myoglobin deoxy, myoglobin is much more resistant to heat denaturation than then regular oxy myoglobin is. And so what happens is, is that you have a lot of deoxy left, it cooks then when you get it out of the bag, it kind of blooms and gets read. Also in poultry, you have actual actual hemoglobin, they're coming out of the bone, especially in younger meat. So with poultry get rid of all the bones trim out those areas cook it faster, the it's been my experience that the fat faster rates of cooking. So in other words, thinner pieces of meat, faster rates of cooking are gonna get better coloration, well more quick looking coloration for you. But allow it to bloom up in a full oxygen environment. Even allow it to go if you were to do things that make it look terrible beforehand, like for met myoglobin, ie put it in a micro oxygen environment so that it oxidizes pull it out and then like expose it to large amounts of oxygen. oxygenated meat will turn brown very quickly. And so I'm actually experimenting with the low temperature book that I'm doing different ways to get around this problem since it is a problem. And so as I do experiments, I'll let you guys know, I'll give you more feedback on how to make meats look overcooked even when they're not cooking issues.

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