Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's show is brought to you by Bob's Red Mill sharing nothing but the best in whole grain nutrition and committed to their mission of good food for all learn more at Bob's Red mill.com/podcast. This episode is brought to you by Joule the immersion circulator for Su V by ChefSteps. Order now at chefsteps.com/j OULE.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network broadcasting every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 rubbers pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn, calling all your cooking related questions or otherwise, really? to 718-497-2128 that's 71849721 to a joint as usual in the studio with Anastasia of the hammer Lopez. Hey, do Anastasia. Good how are you? All right. It's been a while right two weeks. We missed last week was I was I was away. You were I was away here. I was here. I was not here. Then I would have been here in the studio.

You weren't here here.

You weren't here here. But you were in New York.

I was not in New York.

Yes. You stepping out on the stage. No,

I was not in New York. Oh wait, there's something I had. I had to go to a doctor. That's it. I had with my son I had to take my son to that's what it was. And Dave join us usually loose with Dave How you doing? Good. Thank you know what the problem is? Is it like? You have no catchy nickname? You have no catchy nickname maybe someone and you haven't given me one yet. I know that like oh, Anastasia has microphones wandering away. Like I know that Anastasia enjoys not speaking into the microphone so that no one can hear what she's saying. But this microphone in particular is conspiring against her today. And like that noise you hear is the Stasi of trying to tell her microphone. What what? And look it's just like curving away from her. Throwing the hate down on the Stasi. You know what? The Stasi that's a wise microphone that has a wise microphone moving away from you. I don't know David. That's Wow. That's Dave just did a serious like, like spit and bubblegum solution. And he pulled the microphone out of its socket and then jammed it into the socket sideways. But that's gotta love it. That's what I

get the big bucks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

He really wanted Peter Kinloch,

who did Dave why he didn't need a whipping boy.

Miss Peter, you know?

I'm sure Peter will come on.

He's a good foil for you. Of course.

Nice. And he'll actually say things unlike someone I noticed.

I think you would hate it more if I said it. ton of things.

I like how you say hate it more like the baseline is hey, yeah. The baseline of hate.

I think we should try though. I mean, we'll never know unless you try.

Oh, he would drive him crazy. We got people on who are more reasonable, right.

Let me take away for you such a jerk. Anastasia, it's like that would take it. If you don't consider it like that I enjoy having people on I enjoy talking to people.

That's when you start mouth mouth.

To people and the Stasi, it just is one big pile of explicit evil feeling

is funny story, why can we do it

because it because it also deals with somebody else. So we

never have to bring that part up ever. I look, I'm intrigued.

So when you're talking when someone's talking to you, and you're really mentally nervous, and you're not nervous, nervous, not the right word, but like mentally excited, like your brains churning really quickly. And the other person is saying something, and you've in your mind, like anticipated everything that that person is going to say, and you can't wait for them to stop saying it. So you can say something else. Even if you're listening to them and absorbing and enjoying what they're saying. It's like you like want the conversation to already be like three or four minutes ahead, because you know, whatever's in your wall, and also in your head, like, you know, in your head, like you've mapped out the whole conversation, sometimes it changes, but I've seen this, not just in me, but in other people is mouth puppeting, where you're literally like in order to stay focused on what they're saying, instead of racing ahead. You literally mouth the words that they are saying as they are saying them. And so it's incredibly irritating to people when when you know anyone does it. So like Nastasia has caught me doing it on several occasions. And so she's What am I supposed to punch me right in the face? She's supposed to punch me right in the face when I do it. Right? Yes. Right. Anyway. So, but it starts you just been like, no, no, no, she says, she she has this idea that like I want people on. And then like I get mad somehow when they say something because she thinks I care about like my voice tan, which is not the case. If I sat here and didn't just spew a continuous line of words. The Stasi would just sit there with a look on her face and say not one thing

said when when Harold was on that year, just like if he takes too long you like cut them off. And who said that you

it was you? Evil, evil person where it was a change. And I say that Dave Chang has never listened to this show even one time or it

was at an event that you were all co hosting that. You just

like first of all, also miss Darcy will take an offhand comment. Like, seriously if this dude out here with a baseball hat that's eating a pizza right now came in met us for the first time and make a comment if it was tennis. dasya is liking she would bring it up for the next 15 years. In defense of some crazy idea she has or the other. It's just the case. Okay, it's just true. Oh, now, now she's doing the Okay. I'm just

go home to mom. Calm. No, Mama. Wow. Just kidding.

Anyway, so a little bit of sad news, but I'm not going to do the sad part of it. My grandpa died over the weekend. He was almost 98. He was 97. In Florida. Yep. He was David Eugene Arnold, the first the first of the line. I'm the third and last in that in that line. Because my wife was like, it's got to stop somewhere. It's gonna stop with you. So like, I'm like, I'm David Eugene Arnold. The third. Of course, my dad's number two. But yeah, so he was 90. He's 97 Almost 98 and sharp, sharp up till the end. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see him die. I just old age. He wasn't asleep. He just died. He had been he he broken some bones over the past year and so he he no longer get around a lot. And so like once you're like lying in bed most of the time, like if you tend to degenerate fairly quickly. But Florida. He the funeral has been I'm gonna have to go to Florida. But the anyway, I didn't get to see him as much as I'd like in the past 10 years or so. But it's one of my I'll share some food stories. So I've said like a lot of these on air already. But you know, in honor of him, I'll say you know, say them again. The he he grew up in kind of Pennsylvania and so his brother actually worked in a pretzel factory during the Depression. And it was from like that branch of the family that you know, all Arnold's crew Arnold's love pretzels and hate fake pretzels hate, like non like hate pretzel sticks, because they're not pretzel shaped hate pretzels with added fat in them because they taste like crackers. They don't taste like pretzels. And so like you know from him, I've inherited kind of that kind of side of you know, love love of pretzels. But he also used to tell me stories about how he and his brother who died at like the age of like 101 would like during the depression like people in the neighborhood would cut open pumpkins and just from anthem, and one of my great food regrets is that something like 20 years ago when I went to visit him, once he was making Dandelion Wine and all these, like weird wines that were like, you know, harkening back to his youth, and I was too stupid and snooty at the time, maybe it's 25 years ago, to like, enjoy them. And so I was kind of a dick about them. And if I could only go back and like taste them with an open mind, I'd be such a better human being that I am now, you should always take into account like the culinary heritage of your, of your, you know, of those who have come before you anyway, a couple more things about him. So he was a radar designer. And during before World War Two was working for Westinghouse, it was actually I think, running or on the design team that designed the famous radar at Pearl Harbor that was ignored by the military as the as the Japanese were coming into attack. So his radar actually saw the wave of of planes coming in that was ignored. Interesting fact. But he kept on doing radar design over the years. And from that I have several food related stories. One, he would tell me about the people and my dad, I think also knew about this because he did some radar work, you know, when he was young, just like his old man, how they would at Thanksgiving and the early warning. In the early warning radar stations, you know, way out up in the boonies, they would put a turkey at the focus point of the of the big radar dishes, the giant early warning radar dishes and fraught and not fried, you know, microwave turkeys with giant radar dishes. He also said that, so the thing that runs a radar is magnetron which is the same thing that runs on microwave oven and the the lore is that a Raytheon tech? You know the company Raytheon, Raytheon, tech notice that a candy bar in his pocket was melting when he was getting close to these microwaves and that's how he came to think of the microwave oven as being a kind of good idea. Anyway, so the other story and this is not food related that related to the microwaves Is that is that the story this may not be true, but that solely young soldiers used to fry like this flash fry their NADs when they would go out at night as a way of like temporary birth control. But that's got to be apocryphal because who would do that? What lunatic would do that? What else he he was the one who I wanted to try years and years ago to convince to help me build a room size microwave and he always refused to help me just like my dad always refused to help me build lasers that were actually going to damage people now you can buy him on eBay. One more food. So he was the one that told me about the chicken gun. I've talked about the chicken gun on air before. Yeah, so I'll say again briefly. So in in the they used to use a compressed air cannon to fire birds into windshields. This has been covered on Mythbusters. They used to fire burns into windshields to test the windshields for impact resistance, and I forget why Mythbusters cared about it. But the thing that always intrigued me as I said before on the show is that Grandpa said that he the janitor would come take the birds and cook them afterwards. And so I've actually built I have it sitting in Connecticut. And once it warms up again I'll start firing it again. I built a chicken gun so that I can fire last year I built it for that pilot that I never got used for anything so I have a chicken gun if anyone wants to like me to fire stuff out of the chicken gun. I'm pretty sure I can do whatever I want with the footage now we can fire stuff out of chicken guns and cook them to see what kind of nice tenderizing affect firing a bird out of a chicken has. Chicken sound effects, you know, so there's that when I was in grad school, I built a chicken gun based on a Delta 88 spring that's a car for those you that don't know old cars. It didn't work so well. Compressed air is really the way to go. Anyway, I now want to compress their cannon. What else last but not least almost every day or not second last Malleus. Almost every day he would mix himself a drink that he called the Bonnie Prince Charlie, which he assured me was a kosher name for this drink. It was actually a rusty nail, which is scotch and Drambuie. And if you want to if you've never had Drambuie Drambuie is a mixture it's a Scotch bass with honey they say Heather honey, and some spices although in reality what a rusty nail is or as my grandpa called her Bonnie Prince Charlie is essentially a Scotch old fashioned so you can whip yourself up some honey simple syrup. If you don't want to go out and buy the drum buoy and make yourself a scotch, old fashioned he had it built he always been spilt it on the rocks. And you can do that you could stare it down if you want a little more dilute the standard recipe for rusty nail or Bonnie Prince Charlie, as he called it is three quarters to trim Boolean, an ounce and a half of scotch, which is preposterous ly sweet, especially if you're going to drink it as an old fashioned if you're not going to stir it down. So I would shave that rambly back or up the Scotch or both. And last but not least he was the person who said to me in his mid to late 90s that if God wanted you to drink skim milk, he would have made it come out of the cow that way anyway. And so he lived to be I always thought he'd be 100 stars but he never made it to 100 I always assumed like we always assumed though we don't need to go down to Florida this year because he's obviously going to make it 200 If I was wrong, let you know add it to another long list of the things that I'm wrong about. So do you do anything cool this weekend? No, no, nothing? Nothing good. You, Dave, anything, any food related anything

food related? No, not really.

No. So I've been doing some interesting food related stuff, which maybe if I have time we'll talk about later. So person listens on the radio, Nick Devlin in the UK has introduced me to the idea of this software COMSOL, which is a physics modeling program. So I've been doing some I've been doing some modeling some heat heat modeling, on low temperature cooking, if we had some time later, I could talk about some of my preliminary problems and results because what I really need from the cooking issues crew, it meaning you guys who are listening is so I have to write this book, maybe I'll talk about it. Now really briefly, I have to write this book on low temperature cooking. Now, the book is supposed to be specifically low temperature cooking for that's useful in you know, in a home, right, so not like, the crazy stuff that you know, I was doing back at the French Culinary Institute, and not stuff where it's a billion steps to get a result, like, you know, like my motto is typically been massive amounts of work for marginal amounts of improvement, right? So as like, that's my motto, massive work, minimal improvement improvement, but minimal compared to the amount of work I put in. And so this book has to not be that so that the mental theory of this book is going to be massive amounts of kind of thinking research, thought hemming and hawing at the outset. And then to use to make simplified recipes that people can do at home. And a lot of a lot of it is, is I'm going to focus on things like kind of like party tricks, right? So like how to cook like your holiday roast or your or like a crown roast pork, things like this that really kind of, you know, have died out because they kind of suck traditional roast not but like crown roasted pork, because they kind of they're never quite right. You ever had one size crown roast, you know what they look like, though? They look awesome. You've seen him in 70s pictures now, maybe. So you take the whole like, so imagine like a rack of lamb but pork butt frenched out and then turned into a tube. So it's like a, like a monarchs crown. And then you stuffed it full of stuffing in the middle. And then you like roast that sucker up and you serve it and like, it's just, it's a super baller, 70s I mean, and previous but like, you know, I remember from the 70s it was like a thing people did. Back when a pork was a little fattier, and B people were okay with things that were just cooked into oblivion. You don't I mean, so you'd have this thing. But the problem is, is that remember when I used to do the whole fish, fry whole fish. So the problem with frying a fish, a whole thing of frying, anything that's bent or cooking, anything that's bent is not only that, it's large. And so you're going to tend to overcook the stuff on the outside, or undercut stuff on the inside. The problem once something is bent is that you have very, very different kind of thicknesses. So the outside gets overcooked way before the inside does, especially if there's like a lack of air circulation on the inside of let's say, a crown roast, or at the bed, part of like a whole fish would say if you've bent the whole fish into a U shape, which is something that I do a lot. So one of the great things about low temperature cooking, is you can pre cook the whole thing all the way through to a low temperature, right, and then you can let it cool down. And then you can roast it on high heat and you're just looking for the color on the outside. We call this like low temperature suited for insurance purposes. And you could do something like a crown roast really easily and not worry that you're either going to overcook or undercooked the middle. That's great, right? Proud problem is, is that I've been trying to figure out exactly how to tell people to cool it down. It's similarly even if you're doing like the classic like every, every night, low temperature that I do is like steak night, every night I was going to steak every night. But like that's my kind of usual, like, every day I'm gonna use a circulator meal is like steaks, right? So with steaks, I always tell people and I've said this before in the air a little bit, I tell people to, you know, cook the steak, whatever, you're gonna do 55 degrees, then let it cool down. I've actually forced the circulator down to about 50 degrees, so that when I sear it, it doesn't go too high in temperature. Now, the problem with this technique in general is that if you're going to if you're going to do it, you have to use relatively fixed stakes like inch and a quarter inch and a half, anything thinner than that. And even if you drop the temperature from, let's say, 55, which is what I cook to Celsius, you drop it down to let's say 50 Celsius, you're still going to overcook the senator if you if it's thinner than that, so already like you're kind of limited because you have to use these thicker meats if you want to do this kind of a technique. So I mean, in the past, I've done techniques for smaller cuts of meat, where you low temp it and actually chill it down, keep it in the fridge, then bring it out and like Flash fried a couple of times or pan it a couple times in the inside comes up to temperature. The other problem with a thick steak if you drop the whole thing down Aren't five degrees that say 250? Is that once you sear it? Yeah, you haven't overcooked it, but the insides a little cool. And you've had it before stars when people do low temperature meats, and like one of the issues is it's not warm enough on the on the on the plate, right? Because when you integrate the temperature across the whole thing, anyway, so it turns out

that fish we saw that was Friday that was still alive. That was

the gross that's a separate story. We could talk about that. That's a classic preparation where you keep the animal's head alive. And skills alive. You wrap it in moist towels, and then you fry its body so that it's hence still alive while its bodies cooked. Which is

That's why there was sounds pretty cool. Well in person. That's probably the worst thing I've seen in person.

They all have like, let's let's forget the cruelty. I also don't like that texture taste. Right? In other words, like, no, no, I'm just being straight up. Like I don't mean to be like horrible about it. But like, not only is it not only is it horrific, right. Not only is it horrific, it doesn't even get a good.

It's not even like yeah, what's the point even open doesn't taste good?

Yeah, there's a huge cultural difference, though, because, like, you know, there's, you know, hundreds of millions of people who want their fish like crunchy like that. You know what I mean? Like, what's the point of keeping it's just a trick. It's just a party trick to show like freshness, right? It's just a party trick

to play God. Yeah.

It's like a party. It's like a cruelties party trick. I mean, look, whatever. It. Yes. Sorry. I didn't mean to derail you. So like, no, Anastasia is the one that brought up the Anastasia brothers. So she's just thinking about that. Yeah, that I first saw that when I was a kid on an episode of a show called that's incredible. Because either that or Ripley's Believe It or Not, which was an ad show. And in that one, it was a little bit different. They didn't fry it. What they did was they filleted it left the body there. And then they replaced the Falaise on the living body of it also. So you're sitting there and the gills are like that Bob PIP up, you know what I mean? And the fish is like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, anyway, so back to the food. So here's the issue, I need your help with people. It turns out that the technically best way, so when you're cooking a piece of meat, the the rate at which something heats up is dependent on the temperature delta. Okay, so the difference in temperature, that's why like, you know, it takes a long, long time for the inside of a meat to get up the last couple of degrees. Because once the meats once the the main body, the meat is started heating up, you have very small temperature difference between, let's say, the part of the meat that's in the very center from the part of the meat that's right next to it. And once the temperature difference is very small, the heating, the temperature increase rate goes down and down and down. So your, the rate at which temperature can increase in a piece of meat is related to the difference in temperature between the heat you're supplying, and I mean between the temperature region that you're supplying heat from, and the temperature region you're putting heat into. So when you push a piece of meat down only five degrees, right, you're pushing it down, and you haven't pushed it down that far, then when you're searing it, you put a very high temperature delta onto it, right, you know that the surface of the meat is going to get up very quickly to about 100 degrees C that you know, won't go above it until the crust forms, but that piece of meat, there's going to be about 100 degrees C. So you're going you've reduced the inside of the hole inside of the meat by five degrees, but you're applying an X in excess of 50 degrees temperature delta to it. And that force is a pretty big temperature spike through the meat. So you have to chill the meat down quite a bit in order to have it not overcook when you're searing it. So the correct answer is to actually force a large negative temperature delta into it. In other words, put the meat into cold water for a couple of minutes, and then pull it out of the cold water and then sear it and then it all averages out. The problem is is that it's technically right, that sounds like technically more of a pain in the ass. If I have to pull out a piece of meat out of a circulator. And then throw it into, you know, a pot of water in the sink with the cold water, tap on drizzle, and then time it for three minutes, then pull it out and then sear it that seems like a huge pain in the ass. Right? It's dassia. So the question I have in my mind is, is that if this is the technically best way to do it, and it doesn't require thermometers or measuring anything just requires timing. Is that too much for people to do at home? Or is that a reasonable step? Is that still like something that people will be like, oh, yeah, I'll go do that. Or is that like, I'd rather just not do that. You know what I mean? Like that's the so I'd have to run a bunch of tests and need some mental advice from people out there over what is considered reasonable steps for people to do on an everyday kind of cook. What do you think's test, you know, mean? Also like, you know, how do people want to fit it assuming that people aren't going to go buy a sizzle? Or even if they are like, what's the best way? Like, do people have a problem with deep frying finish? Do people not want to deep fried home? Do people want to pan their stuff when they're finishing? Do people want to be able to oven finish this stuff, I got to figure out what people want to do. Because I have to separate out in my head, what I would do from what I think other people want to do, and then just provide them with the best protocol for what they want to do is that makes sense? Anyways, because you're willing to do a lot, I'm willing to do a lot for something, it's only a little bit better, you know what I mean? And also, like I have access to, like, I have access to stuff that most people don't have access to. So I'm going to assume that because I've organized my life that way. You know, like I'm assuming that in warmer weather months, people can finish on a grill so you know, I have a lot of grill stuff in there. I'm assuming people are going to want to finish some stuff in an oven. But you know, panning because it makes so much smoke it's kind of a pain in the butt and also deep frying although it's technically superior I just don't know what people are gonna say we

got we got a Robert in the chatroom saying sear using Sears or in a pan never fraud.

You will who said that? Robert in the chat room. Okay, so what is Robert have against frying? Robert,

what do you have against Brian?

See the issue with Frying is remember, for meats that don't have a crust, the only issue with Frying is if you have once your fry oil becomes even a little bit degraded. It leaves a kind of a fry taste on the outside but like nice, not hyper fresh because it doesn't have good properties but like oil that's in perfect condition has no kind of all flavors to it. you deep fry like a rack of lamb like you do a rack of lamb and you deep fry it for about I don't know a minute and a half, two minutes you deep fry that rack of lamb and the crust is perfect all the way around so nice but then you have to like if you don't like it you then you talent you paper talent then you can brush with you know butter or whatever else you want. Same with steaks like a good steak that's like deep fried all the way around gets a perfect kind of crushed all the way around it. But if your oil is even a little bit bad, it's no no good at all. Anyways,

Roberts listing his reasons he says it's messy. What do I do with the oil? Dangerous kids around expensive? I'm lazy wife won't go for.

Those are all good reasons. Do you remember? Do you remember when Lucy threatens, Meinl? And I think it was the peanuts the Christmas special when he's like what you know, why should I listen to what you say? And she goes, I'll give you five reasons and puts up her face and he goes Those are good reasons. Love that Dave.

Peter just got you a middle seat on your flight to El Paso. Is there anything you're doing you know pass or that you can tell people

about I don't know what I'm doing in El Paso. I'm going to El Paso pretty soon.

See that's brutal. middle seat that's brutal.

It's a it's a it's a fun fact that anyone who works with me anytime, anytime people want to send me somewhere they like to put me in the middle seat in the back of the airplane on the seat that doesn't require you know that one seat on the airplane that doesn't recline. They'd like me to be in the middle in the back. And if they were able to they would always organize it for rough weather flights. They can't. But they always would if they could send me through a cell of thunderstorms. What do you think that is? People hate me. Like it turns out and the Stasi once booked me on this. I still told the story before on the air. But the Stasi has sent me on Spirit Airlines, right when somebody else was paying. When somebody else was paying, they're like, yeah, just book your flight wherever you want. She could have flown me first class on like a real airline. Like, you know what I mean? It wouldn't have mattered they wouldn't have blinked. She's been she sent me spirit back when like, and I sat next to a woman who had a fake service dog. There was like all like I was like what the hell like spirits the one where they had you

know, was fake. Because she told me she told me

she's like you just say it's a service dog. And if they argue you sue them, Mike. All right.

In the dining the dog run it to take your seat dog. Yeah, I

was like, I was like, I was like, why am I here? Why is this exist? And the only reason she if Anastasia had been going with me on that trip. When she was supposed to we would have had nice flights. She would have had nice flights. She's like,

why? Oh, I don't know why I got that plate because you hate me. No, that was a real dumb move.

Okay, anyway. We have a question from Gordon. I've heard Dave talk glowingly about squid based Japanese fish sauce. Is she not there on all squid based some of the theories that are out there often Ishikawa some are macro based but the one that I happen to like is not just squid, but they use the squid bodies. Is the squid guts in the squid blood and it's delicious. Anyway, I've heard him talk about it a few remaining times on the podcast. I've been trying to find a way to buy it and I'm stumped Dave, is there any way for me to get my hands on this stuff? I'm a regular Joe consumer, not a restaurant or slash business in the US Seattle. Thanks. Okay. So there is a store in the I have not tasted this one. But there's a Japanese fish sauce. I don't know what it's made out of. It's not one that I'm trying but it's a Japanese style fish sauce. That the core T brothers co RTI brothers.com. They sell it they call it Chateauroux as H O TT EU, are you but I've never tried it, so I can't really say much about it. I will say that the company that used to bring in the two my two favorite Japanese fish sauces. The one is a shimmery which is fantastic. Although I've tried some machineries that I didn't like as much so you know, this particular one, I don't even know if they carry anymore if they carry one that looks similar to it. And the other my other favorite fish sauce is IU a y au which is a Japanese freshwater fish typically served like you know, grilled on skewers to look like it's swimming we had that we were in Japan, that fish sauce is incredibly delicious. It's mutual trading company. Now there's a new york mutual trading company. There's their branches all over the country. There's a New York mutual trading company that has a has a showroom here in New York, I call them and they don't have stock on the IU and they don't have a Pio in for it. And they're out of assuring now and they're not going to get it back in until April. However, the Los Angeles one, the Los Angeles mutual trading company, they might have it because I asked and woman said that they have entirely different systems. And so they might have it in stock. So I didn't have a chance to call them because I was on my way out. And they were just opening as I was leaving the house. You know, because I'm on New York time they're in LA time. So I would call Los Angeles mutual trading. They have a showroom in Los Angeles so they might be willing to send it to the showroom and then ship it to you from there. But just so you know, the IU fish sauce which I highly highly, highly recommend their stock number on that is 1604 and the machinery which looks similar to the one that they used to carry but might not be the exact brand I mean, I can't read any kanji on it is item number 20340 on mutual trading company but check the LA branch and they might ship it to Seattle out of their Los Angeles showroom anyway. You even you like those fish sauce? Yes. Yeah, they tasted good. Yeah, they're good. Okay, we have a call a question in from you. M. I'm assuming that you m and not M. Right. Yeah, that'd be amazing name. What's your name? Right that'd be awesome. Towards the end of last week's cooking issues was two weeks ago Now Dave started talking about college and and meat texture I find this topic fascinating. I would like to add my vote to have him speak more on the topic. I of course want to hear more about the new bar seeing his Booker DAX was my favorite bar and I felt rejected that alone since it closed. Thanks for the show you am well they were the same place with that with the dang bar figuring out a new place to open I never thought I knew is hard to find a space in New York City. And you know, in the in the area that I want to but I didn't know kind of how hard it was going to be like it's frustrating that you literally have people who are willing to pay for something and no space to put it into. It's so frustrating. New York is such a pain in the butt.

Maybe you should not look outside of East Village.

Like where like well what neighborhood would you go to for a bar lonely Hell's Kitchen? Oh, yeah, like this is not a Hell's Kitchen kind of a bar Nastasia frequents a bar called the gas. The gas

sounds like a college bar.

You would be right. Except for there's no college students in that area. So what it is is reaching recent college grads

or really old ones that wish they were still in college.

Wow. That's rough. It's not a finance profile. Right? Very often. You used to he used to a lot, but it's not a finance bro.

No, just losers.

Does my favorite kind of bars Do you ever go to you ever go to my old bar the Holland. You gotta go. I want to know what I want to know whether it's still good. It's frightening to look into the Holland super frightening but super friendly, at least, you know, was a decade ago when I used to go take eight and a half now. Anyway, so we're looking, we're looking for that. As for collagen, I mentioned it briefly. And I'm going to mention it in in regards to another question that we have. But I've been doing a lot of research on muscle structure, texture and taste for the upcoming book. And so I think I mentioned this briefly on the air a couple weeks ago, is that everyone always says, Oh, the collagen and meat is what makes it tough. Right? You've heard that a million times stars right? Yeah. But you know it kind of if you don't think about it, you're thinking more about like connective tissue. You can see Aren't you most of times? Yeah, but it's not that at all. It's like every muscle has three basic layers of connective tissue, they have the silver skin, which goes around the whole muscle, and that you take off, right, then they have the connective tissue that goes around each individual muscle fiber, right? And both of those things are pretty constant, the one because you take it off, and the other one because, like different muscle fibers, they, you know, the, the amount of connective tissue around the individual fibers varies, but doesn't vary and the crosslinks in it vary but don't vary that much as much from muscle to muscle, but does vary quite a bit is that is the intermediate kind of connective tissue, which is around what's called, I don't know how to pronounce, but I'm gonna say the pair of pair mycelium, right? And so that's the individual bundles, what paramecium a pair Museum is the protozoan, animal. And paramecium, although I assume that because it's myofibrillar is the is the muscle thing. And so it's Myo like myosin like muscle, but it's like, a pair of Mycelium is the is the connective tissue that goes around the bundles of muscle fibers. And so when you cut across a piece of meat, and you look at it, and it looks like little columns, you know, I'm talking about scars, right, the grain, it's the actual connective tissue that surrounds that grain. And that connective tissue that collagen is extremely variant between different muscle types, right. And so you have very weak slash, you know, lower amounts of total paradisio collagen, and let's say a Tedrick piece of meat versus a a nontender piece of meat. And so it's breaking down that collagen, which is important. And so part of what I'm going to be looking at when I'm doing the book is kind of different ways to mitigate the effect of the paramecium. College and on it. And that's why I said before, that while, like a lot of people's studies on the effects of salting, or of marination, or various different things, take into account some effects like for instance, if you're doing studies for marination or salting on chicken breast, chicken breast has a very different structure for the, you know, the, the intra muscular connective tissue than does chuck me. And so what I want to look at is can and I've always been an advocate, like I said a couple of weeks ago for not salting meat, if it's going to be eaten a eatin like a steak and be cooked for a long time because of the firm texture. But this might all get overwritten because most of my tests, all of my tests were on relatively tender cuts of meat. And so what I want to look at is the effect of marination and salt penetration on meats that have very large amounts of I don't know how college college and in the paramecium because maybe if you break those down in the larger grain things, you can actually have a larger effect on those pieces of meat than you would in something that has like a finer structure of muscle bundles anyway. So that's what I'm looking at in college and right now, but I have no results to report back but I better soon or my editor is going to tear my freaking head off. I have to finish with all of my research soon. So I'm doing these like parallel researches Anastasia on one on temperatures and techniques in terms of with my physics modeling and then on marination assaulting structure and collagen structure on the other. So I'm working on those two kinds of things simultaneously, but they better in a couple of months end up in a book right? Oh, hills, people who's also on the subject, that people are asking me all questions about stuff I'm researching, which is lucky Eric writes in about grass fed beef. I recently bought a quarter share of grass fed beef from a local rancher should have been from Hearst ranch grass fed grass fed beef abattoir. Unfortunately, it tastes very strongly of that gamey off flavor. The grass fed beef so often seems to have vegan face and Stassi heavy, it made a vegan face. Oh my god, I hate to go off on a tangent. But I love going off intention notice. So for some reason. I was I don't know why I think it was because of something that I saw on the news this morning. You know, Morning Joe was on he started talking about Lenin. I don't know why. And it's a so I went on Wikipedia for a minute. Did you know Every couple of years, you have to re up yourself on knowledge that you used to have. So someone's like Lenin. I'm like, Okay, I've forgotten most of this stuff. I know about Lenin. So I did a quick weak Wikipedia on them. And for those of you that want to know what it's like, I forget her name. Okay, please look it up and Stasi, Lenin's wife, Lenin's wife. So, Lenin's wife. I looked her up, and the face that this lady has in every single picture Is the stasis standard face when she's looking at you. Like just her standard, not like her facial features, but just the look in the mouth and the eyes, is if you want to know what it's like to have the stasis sitting across the table while you're trying to explain something, or while you're trying to like figure out what's going on in life. That's the look. That's the look. What's your name?