Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like I don't know what is it like? 1215 to like 1245 One o'clock, you know from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn. joined as usual with Anastasia the hammer Lopez, how you doing? Yeah, yeah. Got Dave in the booth. How you doing? Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. How do you pronounce your last name? To how to shore tattoo? Sure. So it's like not like the full Italian pronunciation give me the not not

in this country. I guess. The Italian to secure

tech this early. You pronounce it tattoo tattoo ashore? Yeah, like Dinah Shore. But with Tatta?

You know, funny story. I one time met Ben Stein, the comedian. And he asked my name. And I told him and he was like, oh, like Dinah Shore?

For real? Yeah. So that's one thing I share with Ben Stein. Yes. Nice. All right. Why did you meet Ben Stein?

I don't know. He was like wandering around the campus of my school. That seems like something. He must have been there for a show or something. This was a this was at a school which shall remain unnamed in central Pennsylvania many, many years ago.

Did he? Was he doing his his Bueller bid? Or was he doing his? Like, his show bid or what? No,

I actually don't know. I don't think it was a comedy show. I think he was just there to speak about life or Nixon or whatever he has to say.

Yeah, he's quite a conservative dude. Yeah, he's like, super conservative. He's

shockingly, like super conservative,

but like, regardless of anyone's political beliefs, everyone loves Bueller. Bueller. DAVE What

school did you go to?

It was Penn State.

Penn State's great Why don't you know

Dave What school did you go do?

What me? Yeah. Oh, Natasha, like Nastasia Yeah, but this is my this is what I hate when people ask me what school I went to school to go to. Oh, It's in Northern California. Like how northern when we talk and like Eureka, we talk in San Francisco. So you went to like, you know what? you'd like? To keep going Yeah, East Palo Alto though you're like went to like like a CC and East Palo Alto. That's, that's it. You've done like, Connecticut. It's not true that like, where do you live? And you're like Connecticut? Because I actually lived in Connecticut. No, I'm

saying we both agree with this. Yeah, you

see where you went? Here's the issue. I'm 45 years old, almost 46 years old. I mean, where I went to school, pretty immaterial, other than the fact that I met my wife there. Yeah. But Penn State, which is where my grandpa who just died came from any lion, you know, whatever. Like they have great ice cream. Apparently, they have like, like the ice cream program. Like if you want to learn how to make ice cream on a commercial level, like you go to Penn State. You ever had their ice cream when they were out there? Of course. Did you enjoy their ice cream?

Yeah, of course. All right. Great ice cream and pathological state of denial going on out there.

about other things. Yes. Look, that. All right. I got you. All right.

So been a caller who's been waiting? Right.

All right. Well, I'll take that callers. And if there are more callers calling your questions to 718497 to one to eight. That's 718-497-2128 and caller you're on the air.

Hello. Hey, this is Darren. Young fan from the kingdom of Netherlands. Can you hear me? Okay? Yeah. Cool. Now the quality has been kind of bad.

Let me ask you a question in the Netherlands. Are they super worried about about sea levels rising?

Oh, man, I'm so sorry. I really can't hear you on my end. Maybe I should try and call you back.

Alright, yeah, could call back so you can hear what I'm trying to think. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? I feel like the guy switched from Verizon to sprint. Can you hear me now? Caller give a call back. Give a call back. And we'll and we'll try it again. In the meantime,

you have another caller.

I have another caller.

Yeah, there's another caller. Hi. Caller you're on the air. Hello. What's going on with these people? We're

having some bad luck with the calls today. Listen, you tell you. Are you there? Hey, how you doing? Caller?

Oh, hi. Yes, I can kind of hear you. Have you got an I had a question about pressure cooking stocks in aluminum pot? Sure. We're opening a restaurant that's going to be doing a lot of soups, and we're hoping to do fresh cooked chicken stock. And the biggest one I can find that's not like insanely expensive is like a 41 Quart all American sugar. That's but that only made an aluminum and I was wondering if there's any concerns with that. Because I noticed on in one of your posts from a while ago on the blog, you guys use like a steel stainless steel insert when you guys are using?

Yeah, a lot depends on what you're going to do. Like, okay, so there's there are people who are worried about aluminum. In any event, I'm not one of those people. But like, we do need to be worried about aluminum and excessively basic conditions. Or anytime you're setting up sort of like kind of a galvanic cell between metals or like if you have heavy detergents going into it. Or if you have, I guess I wonder what I guess extreme acids to what everybody was. So aluminum though, in chicken stock, I don't think it's going to be that big of a problem. You know, I'm sure you've used over the course of your life, various qualities of aluminum pots and what you know, what you notice is that they get they get pitted out, especially like the lower quality ones get pitted out a lot. And that metal is going somewhere, guess where, you know what I mean? It's like some of its getting scrubbed out. But you know, some of that stuff's getting leached out, most of it happens when you can form like a galvanic connection, like an electrical connection between dissimilar metals and a liquid medium, ie your food. Now, in chicken stock, which you know, isn't especially acidic or basic, I doubt that you're going to have that many problems. And I myself am not worried about I'm not worried about it. In very, very long cooking items. I've had some things discolor when they're cooking in the presence of aluminum foil in soothie. We're talking like, you know, days, you know, or at least many, many hours. So like a short run in a pressure cooker, I don't think is going to cause that much of a problem. Now you could get people on SSI back in the day, people used to worry about aluminum pots because there was increased aluminum content in the brains of autopsied Alzheimer's patients. And so then the question was, did aluminum cause Alzheimer's or not right? And this is a big problem because aluminum is in like, like a lot of the baking powders that we use. I think it's also one of the main ingredients in you know, normal compound, I think in underarm deodorant. And so we come into aluminum in kind of non natural formats. Okay, pretty often, you know what I mean? Yeah, And so they did a lot of research and I think it was determined that you know that it is true that Alzheimer's patients put more aluminum into their brains, but it's not that the that you and I necessarily are getting aluminum into through the food we ingest and deposited in our brains and that's causing Alzheimer's. In other words, I think the current research shows that it's a it's a result rather than a cause, if that makes sense. So you know, what you need to worry about more is like, is it affecting the flavor I think of other stock. And you know what, honestly, I've never noticed it. I've never done a side by side in the American pressure canner versus like, because the other problem with the American pressure pressure canner is that it is a big ship to steer. So you have it takes a while to get her up to pressure and then it takes a while to stabilize it out. You know what I mean? And you have all those fidgety facility knobs on the top of it that you you know, tighten it down like a submarine bulkhead. Actually, I wish it was like a submarine bulkhead, those have just that one big knob these have like all those little like, you know, those little black knobs so it can be kind of fidgety to get it going but it does make a whole boatload of stuff once you're done. The other thing you have to be careful with on those units is they take a long time to cool down to long time to cool down. So like it's not necessarily for anything that you need to do like a natural temperature drop on just because you're going to be there forever, you know what I mean? Whereas you know for stock I don't really use this is true, you might get more you're probably going to get a cloudy or stock if you force cool it rather than let it like come down naturally but you might be able to cut your recipes a little bit shorter and then to account for the fact that it's going to take a long time for the thing to kind of drift back down. But back to what I was saying. I've never noticed an aluminum flavor on something that is cooked solely in an aluminum pot that is not acidic is not basic and also doesn't have any other metal implements in it. You know what I mean? So you know I've noticed in kind of mixed metal situations you know where I know the aluminum is leaching. I don't know whether it's my mind telling me there's a taste or not could be you know, it's hard to say but that's just my you know my general impression because you know in general you know, i Everybody knows that a lot of their stuff in a restaurant. You know, maybe not a high end restaurant but in like you know medium restaurants is cooked in aluminum because large aluminum pots are so much cheaper than large stainless steel pots so much cheaper for a given level of you know quality. And so you know, unless you know what was the last time you ever at a restaurant where someone like had the soup and was like oh my god they cook this in aluminum. You know what I mean? Like it now that said I think it would make sense to do like some side by sides just kind of for fun to see whether you could blind you know triangle test to see whether you could taste the difference. But I kind of doubt it outside of the you know the very basic things that that I mentioned here. I'm kind of you know, it's interesting that the people who make that pressure cooker they make it for two reasons they don't really call it a cooker they call it either a canner or a sterilizer depending on what lid you're using. And for those of you that look it up on online it is by far the biggest pressure cooker you can get you know they don't call it a cooker because I guess presumably like they're like Who cooks that much but the because they're not aimed at pros necessarily. And almost I've never seen you know, a modern, non stainless, you know, sandwich pressure cooker so be hard to do a side by side which is I guess one of the reasons I've never I've never really done it but you could do a standard soup side by side I guess there's a stainless and see what's going on. But that's probably also because they don't they're not expecting you to cook in it. This way. You know cooking quotes like cook a stock is probably why they don't have a version of it with like an interior hard anodized shell you know what I mean? That would make it a lot easier. Now if you want to go super fancy you could take it to your local you know local anodized er and they could make it like whatever awesome color you want along with the hard anodized coating you could have like the sweetest pink pressure canner in the whole world you know what I mean? But

I don't know whether things were but I didn't have a listen to the anodized Yeah,

you know it's not that expensive to get something anodized but what I don't know is whether or not the food anodising people do have like a special bath or whether there's any sort of food greatness to like what an anodized or does good never looked at but I have looked at getting parts anodized before because you know like a lot of aluminum part cars, people want them all different colors because they want like you know, they want this piece to be red and this piece to be green because you know they're spending a lot a lot of money on their car. So like everything has to be just so and when you have an aluminum part anodising is the way to go. Or if you look at like Maglites you know back when people were buying a bunch of Maglites before they got swamped by all the LED people Like, think of all the anodized cool colors Maglites came in, you know what I mean? are still coming. So it is possible, but I don't know the cost.

Great. And then and then you guys, you recommend the camera right to the top of that has doesn't have the jiggler valve, it just has like the regular sort of non steam releasing valves.

Okay, so the way that the can't there's, there's two, the Canada and the sterilizer sterilizers kind of a pain in the butt because it's got a long kind of tube that comes out of it. And that tube is to guarantee that you vent off all of the air that's inside of your pressure cooker. One of the things about a pressure cooker that is not talked about that often except for I guess, by pressure cooker conditions it is that you want to actually allow steam to escape for, like, you know, you know, a minute or two at the beginning of the cook. And the reason is you want to purge all the dry air out of it and have it all be steam. Now, it seems. It seems like that doesn't make sense. At first blush when I thought about it, it seems like it wouldn't make a difference. But from what everybody says it actually makes a difference. And the pressure canner people the pressure sterilizer people who are using, you know, sterilizing implements to use for surgery, especially care about this sort of thing. And so, you know, in general now, and if you look at like a coon recon, for instance, like you know how like, home, yeah, right. So when it comes up to temperature, like the side valve hisses for a while before it shuts off. And that's, you know what I'm saying? That's a little side valve. And that's inherent in the design, such that you get the dry air out of the pressure cooker, and all that's left in there is steam. And so that's why it does that. So you know, if you if you wonder like, Why the hell did they design it this way? Why didn't they just seal it. And that's the reason. So with these guys, they have what's called a very nice geared pressure sensor on the top of the pressure cooker, right one that's far more accurate than the crappy ones that you get in, you know, in a standard home pressure cooker. But then they also have a weight on them and the weight looks a little bit like around tinker toy with different size holes drilled in it. And depending on which hole you put on top of the vent valve of the pressure canner, it puts a it's a different radius and therefore a different amount of pressure that's going to be pushing up on it and therefore you can adjust the the overtime, like when the steam starts the eventing on it based on the weight of the the weight and the circle diameter of that little tinker toy. So what you do is you leave the TinkerToy off for a little while, let a lot of steam come up. And then once the steam comes up, you put the tinker toy on and then you adjust the pressures such that the Tinker Toys not venting anymore. And you're just using the pressure gauge to determine the pressure of the of the stock see what I mean. So that's a that's how you do it. But it's still considered advisable to to let that thing vent and I did a bunch of tests were like, you know, I artificially increased the weight of the tinker toy, such that you have to keep the weight centered or it's kind of a mess. But I artificially increased the weight of the tinker toy. One thing to be careful in a professional kitchen is some knucklehead is going to lose that wait, they're gonna lose it, then you're hosed. So back when it was living at the French Culinary Institute, I literally tied I tied it to the handle of the which is not smart in a pro kitchen because the health inspector is going to be like, what's this piece of string tied to us not an ACEF anymore, you know what I mean? But like but like, just to make sure that I wasn't going to lose that little thing because the whole piece of equipment is functionally useless after you lose that you know what I mean? It's just one of those things. You just say tinker toy one more time tinker toy you did not have take your time when I was a kid one of my best toys I had, unfortunately was made of plastic because you know, this was the like the mid 70s but they used to make giant tinker toys out of plastic that you could literally make things you could sit in. Right so I was fortunate enough to have a set of these giant tinker toys and I can still like you know if you were to scale them up to mine, you know, you know adult size like the long tinker toy pipe would be like four and a half five feet long like big you know what I mean? I mean when I was I'm sure it was only two and a half feet long because I was you know like shorter but in any way. So hopefully this is hopefully this has been helpful you what I would like you to do if you do some experiments, I would like you to either call back or tweet over on at cooking issues and let me know how it works out so that I can help you no further crews in there and pressure cooking endeavors.

Great. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Hey, did we get that other fella back?

Yeah, there Phillies.

Hey, how you doing? Can you hear us now?

Yeah, I can hear you pretty okay. connection before was better. So, but looks like it's so Hi. I'm calling from the Netherlands. I relatively recently discovered the show and your immense kick butt backlog of shows, which I listened to on my commute to my engineering internship. So thanks a lot for that. I recently made a ChefSteps chicken Popeye. Yeah, by the way, I'm a college student. So I've got like low budget, but hopefully not low quality questions for you.

Right? Nice. I like low budget. The Stasi likes low quality. I like low budget.

All right, great. So I really enjoyed chicken potpie cooking my girlfriend this weekend. And I have loads of time that weekend to go crazy days, but I don't even have access to a kitchen generally during the week. So I'm currently thinking a lot about preparing food in advance and preparing good food in advance. So what can you recommend? And when you're considering something like a chicken pot pie? Is that best to store in a semi or post cooked piece or in its constituent sort of pieces? Like dough balls and the filling?

That's a good question. So I've never stored a I mean, I've had chicken pot pie. First of all, let's just all be cleared and stuff. So you like chicken pie pie, right? Love. Dave you like chicken? Popeye. Best? Yeah, chicken pot pie is good. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna let's put this all on the table. I like an actual chicken pot pie, ie one that has a bottom crust and a top crust. One that was at one time I made right right now in a modern person, right? It's like okay, so like, are you you're you're American. Right? So you've been you've hung out? Have you been to school in America?

No, no, I grew up completely in Europe.

Oh my God. You're one of those spy like people who sounds like an American but isn't from here. Are you crazy? Are you gonna spy half American, half Dutch but a grip. Alright, alright. Alright. Alright. Anastasia, therefore likes you because of the whole Swiss thing. But listen. So like in America, a crappy potpie. Even though I feel that we are like, you know, one of the, you know, bastions of potpie nests in the world. Like there's this terrible idea where they take a hotel pan, and they put a pot pie mix into the hotel pan and just put the crust on top. So just be sure we're not talking about that kind of second tier of pot pie. Okay, so the issue with the pot pie and storage, once it's baked, is just making sure that the crust on the bottom doesn't get kind of overly soggy. So you know, the but I say I wish I'd run some more tests. I don't buy frozen, like pot pies. I admit when I was a kid, I had plenty of you know, was it Swanson or Stouffer who made the pot pie? Swanson who made the public? I had plenty of those growing up. But yeah, so what's the best way? It's probably similar. I'm trying to think of what a pie I'm trying to figure out whether you should just make the crust and freeze it and then blind bake or whether or not, I don't know how thick you could get an actually literally cooked a pot pie from Frozen entirely from Frozen. You know what I mean? I'm trying to, it might actually not be so bad. You only mean like, so if you're looking at, I'd have to, I'd have to get our friend Nick Devlin to run some console. stuff. But I don't know how long it would take the standard pot pie. Because the goop is like, I'm a believer in pre pre cooking the goop out basically, the chickens already cooked. everything's cooked, right? So then basically, you just need to thaw the goop and then cook the shell you might be able to freeze. You might be able to freeze an entirely raw potpie and just do it. I don't know, though. Anyone on the one on the boards. Dave, who has cooked a frozen a pot pie and then cooked it.

Oh, you know, chat room?

Yeah, see what the chat room has to say chime in on this. But I'd see I would think it's possible.

Well, if I ever trial, I'll let you know how it goes. And like when when you like consider, like, whenever you're traveling or whatever, and you want to prepare meals in advance. And if you just know you have not that much time during the week. Like I mean, it sounds like an excuse, but I really honestly don't have access to the kitchen. What sort of recipes can you recommend to prepare, like, on a whole weekend because I'm happy to cook the whole weekend?

What do you have? What do you have for reheating capabilities?

I often have access to a microwave. Sometimes a stove but that's about it. So I'm like in a pretty dire situation.

Right? I mean, I mean, the obvious ones are things like I mean soups, like you want something that doesn't degrade right? But uh you're looking for an idea that isn't just like the standard non non degrading like anything that is a stew or, or you know, something like this is kind of like easy an easy call. The problem with those things is reheating so like if you're if you're let's say you're in a dorm room or whatever, some sort of like you know non ideal circumstance and you have a quart container of, of soup. That sucks throwing those out sucks. You know, the real but the problem is, is if you take let's say something like soup, and you'd have you know freeze it in ziplock format, which is what I tend to do or chill it in ziplock format flat. So like the easiest way to reheat something that is not, you know, a large object like a roast is to spread it into a ziploc as thin as possible and then freeze them in flat sheets on sheet trays, then they become basically thin bricks that thaw out extremely quickly. And also, yeah, the heat up very quickly. But the issue is, is you want to be careful when you microwave it because if you have an oil in your thing, it can locally overheat and melt out the ziplock because Ziploc bags, they're they're melting temperature is extremely, where they lose their structural integrity. It's not a safety issue, but it's extremely close to the boiling point of water. So it's very easy in a microwave to locally overheat a Ziploc bag and have it lose its integrity. And that kind of sucks. But you can do things like you can do things like and I've done this recently, where you take the frozen Ziploc and you score it and then you break the thing into sheets and then put that into the microwave and sheet format and they just melt down into your bowl, easy as pie. Or if you happen to get a hold of a you know, a cheap circulator, or even sometimes just hot water in you know, out of a tap, you can thaw those bags very, very quickly and then put them into something to reheat them like a microwave. But it really really sucks to reheat quart containers of soup in a microwave. I don't know if you've ever tried or students have never tried. It's horrible the stuff you've tried that right and it's horrible, you get that giant chunk and then starts spinning. And then you shove the spoon into the core container to try to get it to and then spins around and spurts up into your friggin eye. And you think you're like, oh, it's only going to be five minutes until I got dinner on the table. And then like 20 minutes later, they're like it's a microwave. I thought it was quick, what's your problem, you know what I mean? I hate that hate. But another good thing is you can do sauces. So you could do you could pre do certain certain pasta sauces and whatnot can also be bagged out in the same way. So if you have access to let's say, just like a simple hot plate, you could boil out your pasta. And then you could have your sauce pre bagged, you know, pre portioned, pre bagged, and you could be throwing that in hot water as you go. And the noodles themselves will do a major bit of reheating on that sauce as long as it isn't dead cold. And as long as it's not like, like it depends also, like if you're doing a sauce that has a huge volume, right? Then you're going to really cool down the pasta quite a bit. But as long as you're doing a sauce where it's a relatively small volume, if even if it's just warm, the pasta will still be good. I noticed as he enjoys cooking some pasta. Yes. Especially,

I'll definitely think of this. And also, if I'm like making chicken pot pie next time or something, and I'm like, I'm gonna scale my recipe, put it in like a flat Ziploc, and then I can have easy access to it. Like even if I do have access to the kitchen and just speed up that whole cooking process. That's a great, that's a great tip. Yeah, sure. Thanks a lot.

All right, well, let us know. Let us know everything works. You got anything else?

Absolutely. I've got I've got a couple of like one. One more question. Do I have time for

that? Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Okay, I'm fascinated by your spins off. And I love the low temperature tips that you've gotten everything with a total tech enthusiast. You know, I'm an engineering student. I mean, what you're gonna do. So I'd love to have like a gadget Bill kitchen. So what unconventional, like budget friendly tools can you recommend to people like me and to tinkerers, I'm also not afraid of getting some basic electronics. And if my degree is worth anything, then I should be able to build something relatively good quality.

Right? So are you are you what are you doubly? Mechi? What are you?

Aerospace Engineering? Oh, okay.

So all right, fine. All right. So, yeah, so you should be able to do some stuff. Is that still like a real baller area of engineering or no?

It's like, basically, mechanical engineering with some extra thermodynamics and fluid dynamics is probably, I mean, maybe some people get angry by that, but that's probably how I describe it.

Yeah, it's a cool, it's a cool engineering field, I think anyway. I mean, so just, you know, having used most of the stuff that people use, obviously, you know, the first thing you're gonna need, you're gonna need an immersion circulator. Eventually, you know, you might want to tweak out your own version of steam injection, or like massive control of an oven. Like I'm a huge believer in massive oven control. And you can do that's

great because I've got like this awful compact oven and I'd love to develop like a front end where I can like, put a profile into it. That'd be super sick.

Oh, you totally. Yeah, you and you totally can you know what I mean? So eat like, it's especially easy if it's electric. It's not, it's not that hard. Even if it's gas, you just have to be a little more careful with the kind of with the safety stuff. But I've tricked out electrics, I've tricked out gas ovens. And yeah, you can do lots of cool stuff like you can do. You can do your own steam injection into it, you can do your own versions of forced convection on the inside, you can do independently heated bottoms and tops, you can there's, with all kinds of cool stuff you can do messing with your oven. As long as if you own it, it's no problem. If you don't own it, you just have to make it be able to look okay. I also always, after making this mistake several times, I always put a, like a human switch in where you're just like, okay, a normal human now can come in and use my oven. And then I would put it into my mode where, you know, everyone's like, why can't I just before? Why can't I just use your oven day? Why does everything have to be so complicated? You know what I mean? It's like, all that kind of complaining. So it makes your life a lot easier. Just have that switch on it. Like, you know, normal mode.

I love it. Yeah, that's great. But I'm gonna like, who doesn't have time to, but when I do, I'll let you know how it goes. And last but not least, you might know if Dutching and aver you I don't really actually find it all that pleasant myself. But other any cool like food combinations that come to your mind with regard to cooking or mixing with it. Because I'd love to find an awesome use for it and enjoy it with kind of so quintessentially Dutch. I got a lot of Dutch friends, friends and family. I think they'd be really impressed if I could like sharing you know, it's been something

I've never cooked with it. Tristan mean like, over here we now Philip Duff who's, you know, a liquor international liquor person, but he spends a lot of time here in the US. He has a generator company and so he's gonna be mad that I don't have this stuff just tripping off the tongue, but I've never cooked with it. We used to use it you know, a bit at the bar. And I don't have the spec in my head cuz it wasn't my spec. But Kristen Willie, our original manager Booker and DAX. He had a drink called bulls deep. I'm sure the recipes online that is like a it's like an old fashion but it's one of these inverted angled drinks. So it's got a boatload of Angostura in it. We also used to do bowls, Jennifer and apricot. And that's a really good mix. So you might want to think of apricot and Jennifer with because they go together quite well. But I don't have and I've used I've mixed with it a number of occasions. I just don't have any specs in my in my head. You know what I mean? It's the kind of thing where you're working on a project. And you're like, oh, you know what, Jennifer be good for that. But you know any? Like, once you start like appreciating how long have you been? You've been there for your whole life. You said you've been there? You know you Switzerland you grew up. Alright, but you're half Dutch. Are you are you a fan of salty licorice or no?

Yeah, I'm pretty partial to

see you like most Dutch things, just not Jennifer.

Well, that's culinary. I get some hate for this. But it's a little bit inside sometimes. But no, I like some of these kind of Dutch delicacies, painful things that are typically Dutch. Yeah.

So anyway, I think like, you know, once you start you, the more you use something more you like it. And the more you like it, the more you find uses for it. So

that's exactly what I figured. Exactly. Yeah. I

mean, I mean, who of us are really born loving most of the things that we end up loving, you know, very few of the things Yeah, we're not born loving coffee. I don't think we're not born loving a lot of the things that we that we end up liking. So yeah, use, find a couple of uses that you like, you know, put a peg on those and then branch off from there. And you'll find more and more that you like. The real trick once you like something is finding something that a non lover will like that's the real trick.

Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. That's That's great. So thanks so much for all the tips. Love your work, love the show with you in the stash. I've got your liquid intelligence book because I'm kind of getting into cocktails at the moment, sort of new to the event, my talent. But yeah, thanks for all the great work and I'll call in and if I have any more questions or yeah, just to let us know how everything goes.

Thank you. All right, Dave. Should we go to a commercial we have another

You read my mind? Yeah, let's take commercial and then we got a caller on the line waiting.

All right, cool. Come right back with cooking issues.

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That commercial not very good. Which was spelt you you

listen well we're well over myself. I like that like interrupting myself. We're gonna take a color but in the meantime, I brought back this hot sour candy called weenies acid acido ups from Mexico. The stocks eat another one. Well, you don't like it? Why not? I don't know. There's a weird flavor, not the hotter the Tamron it's tamarind Amarin overtop of its Tamaryn and chili powder. Do you not like that Lucas powder? I like fruit chili powder. I

like Yeah, like that. It's the tamarind I think,

you know like tamarind, yet another thing. All right. You have a caller? Caller caller you're on the air. Hello. Hi.

Hi, there. This is Paul Raphaelson from underbelly in Brooklyn. And I have an idea in response to a question that you feel that in previous podcasts I also have a totally unrelated question. What would you rather have for

your choice?

Okay, so my idea you're, you're asking about home friendly ways of browning proteins after low temperature cooking. I just wanted to mention something that I've been doing, I don't think it's a new idea. But I don't hear about a lot of people doing it. I just mixed together a secret sauce of dextrose and baking soda. And just apply that to the protein before browning it and it enhances my art reactions and it can give you a really nice crust. And I think less than half the time that it normally takes most of us slightly less hot pan to do it and that's something that you've experimented with.

So, you know the baking soda as a basic literally basic thing It speeds my reactions. So I think maybe even some non Maya some non my are browning reactions. So they obviously like adding a reducing sugar is going to speed my art and also it will literally caramelize which speeds browning and you're going to have the more basic environment so that's going to enhance browning. So this is the a lot of people have done this with our tested this. In fact, there's some I think they were from the Netherlands actually going back to the last color. They used to do this on brown meats for things like Ragu shoes, or like Bolognese or something like this. To enhance the browning of the meats, especially in situations where it's hard to get good Browning because of excess moisture, like when you're doing ground meat in the bottom of the pot. There's also you know, obviously the you know, ChefSteps in the Modernist Cuisine crew are very pro, a little bit of baking soda in, in veg in a pressure cooker to enhance the kind of brown kind of cooked flavors that you get in those environments as well. So it's known there I've done some experimenting with meats that way years and years ago, but my problem with it has always been so vague, very hard to get it such that you can't tell that there's been baking soda on the outside and you also have to put or at least we always did. Maybe we don't have to you tell me put some acid on it afterwards to neutralize it. And you can get some weird kind of foamy effects, but maybe we're just overdoing it on the baking soda. Maybe by cutting it with a little bit of sugar. You also have to also worry if you have sugar on it. Same way that if you're like, you know, cooking with any sugary glaze or soy based thing that, like you said, you have to go with a lower temperature because you it's easy to scorch it such that it tastes burnt, you just have to be careful, the same way you would if you had like a marinade like a teriyaki marinade or something, you have to be careful that you don't score sheet in a pan, because it's easy to do. But if you noticed, have you noticed any sort of like basic or baking soda II kind of flavor? Or do you neutralize it with an acid afterwards,

I haven't had to neutralize it. What I have done with some trial and error is really reduced the amount of baking soda that's in the mix. So what I've done for a while about a one to five ratio of baking soda to dextrose. And then really the only issue is if you sprinkle it on dry, it's easy to overdo it a little bit. And also it doesn't really have much shelf life because it the glucose pulls moisture out of the air and gets clumpy and then it starts to kind of my art eyes itself. But what I've just started doing, and which which is kind of promising is I make that same mix. And I disperse it in oil. So it's kind of dispersed in some neutral, refined oil like safflower oil or something doesn't dissolve, but it stays separate. And it says, apart from oxygen and moisture in the air. And you just brush it on real lightly with the pastry brush. And so far, the couple of times I've done that it's really well.