Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

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We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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This episode is brought to you by Joule the immersion circulator for Su V by ChefSteps. Order now at chefsteps.com/joul. E.

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Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network broadcasting every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 1245. From a British pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn joined as usual by Anastasia the hammer Lopez, how're you doing stars? Today we do not have Dave Tasha tour aka Dinah Shore in the booth we have Victor Victor How you doing? Hello? You've been with us before I forget. What do you what do you like and don't like what's what are your food likes and dislikes. I like pretty much everything like we talked about last show. I'm Brazilian. So we kind of talked about rice and beans. But you know, I like meats. That's like, kind of say your anything. So you're kind of like my son. I like meat and rice and beans and pretty much nothing else. middle eastern food. My girlfriend is Lebanese so I really love Lebanese food. Nice. Do you know that that? By the way, we're also joined today by Peter Kim, the leader of the Museum of food and drink. Everyone loves to get back together. Yeah, they you know the the person everyone loves to hate and also Oh my man, but I actually disagree with you prefer to be what you prefer to be hate to love. Yeah. All right. And we got Nick one, you know, currently at what's your current title there at the moment who sambar has shifted cuisine, Chef de Cuisine, Chef de Cuisine mo but you know, like, you know, worked with us back at the French Culinary Institute, I don't know, 8 billion years ago, 8 billion years since we're in you know, it's been lots of places. So if you have questions about how they do stuff it last time he was on the show. He didn't say any No, that was two times. Yeah. has spent time stashing at Noma and a bunch of other places and working in California. So if you have any quick questions about working in San Francisco or in Mark Dan Denmark or you know here in New York he's also a little known fact been mistaken many times for David Chang.

That's actually a widely known fact Well, you know, among your

friends, you know in saying sweat like been a constantly Miss Miss recognized as Dave Chang so he just runs with he really roll with it right.

I've seen a few menus you Yeah, you're like, you're like gonna make someone's night.

You're also you're like the body double when someone comes to assassinate Dave, they're going to take you down pretty much. Yeah. All right.

Well look same.com Yeah.

Wow. Well, interestingly different ethnicities, Nick and, and Dave. Yeah,

I thought it was just the one. Yeah.

Yeah, well, we talked we're gonna be talking about some fun stuff. We're talking about Star Wars before that Victor had mentioned some Lebanese, so do you guys remember that old 24 hour Lebanese join on House didn't close down recently bear a cat that yeah, they had it in like in like, all I ever used to go they would be screaming the same order constantly for that. Like if you had this victim this like kind of Lebanese pizza like llama Shan and then we'd like LA Ma Ma Ma Ma Ma. I was like, it was like it was my equivalent of like cheeseburger cheeseburger cheeseburger from the what's it called? from Saturday Night Live. Yeah, but yeah, another another New York landmark. Live on, on. Yeah. And joined by special guests from ChefSteps. Chris Young on the phone. How you doing, Chris?

I'm great. How are you? Dave doing? All

right. So yeah, so we got a full group of people, we got a bunch of questions, and you want to you want to do any sort of pitch or pre roll here, Chris?

Yeah, if you haven't gotten to it, you should go to chefsteps.com. And check it out. And we're gonna have some really cool new updates coming for jewel owners in the very near future. I'm really excited. I can't talk about it yet. But Douglas Baldwin, a bunch of the math guys have been doing some really cool stuff. So and as have the app team, so there'll be major new updates for those of you who are jewel owners coming out in April.

So for those of you that don't know, Jewel is the immersion circulator by ChefSteps. And, you know, you run it via smartphone Android, or what's it called Apple, the one I have, and your iPhone,

or you can use Alexa with it, you can do it all voice controlled and hand free, which is great. When your hands are covered with do I've

actually seen that I saw freaking Kenji Lopez all go. He literally was like, Alexa, turn on my jewel to 57 degrees Celsius. And she was like, okay, Kenji. And I was like, What planet? Do I live? Like? I somehow fell asleep and woke up on a different planet. You know what I mean? It's like, but yeah, so it actually works. I saw it in you know, in the Alexa turned on from a crop media jewel turned on from across the room. But the other cool thing about it very small form factor. And basically, like waterproof with like a magnet on it. So you don't need to worry about you know, you don't need to worry about like, a lot of my circulators have water damage in the electronic areas. And I used to have to tell people all the time how to mitigate the disaster that happens when that idiot drops the circulator into the bucket. Which mean how many times have you seen that happening? I've seen worse happen to circulators. I've seen him like drop it on the floor. You've seen what have you seen? What's worse than dropping a water dropping in soup? No,

I told him externally, hey, you'll wrap up the top a little bit of plastic to maintain the temp bring it up, faster, right, walk away, I come back like 30 minutes later, he's wrapped the entire thing in plastic tires, circulator is just wrapped up in plastic, along with all the water, and it's just steaming out and killing itself.

Well, that's, that's amazing. I love that. But isn't this that's an IQ test. Like know what it is Chris? And you've been in like, lots of high pressure kitchen situations. And Nick obviously, like both of you have your pedigree with let us say mercurial folk in the kitchen. Right? You know, because you know, Chris was, you know, many years ago was running the Fat Duck kitchen. What was your title? There? You were also were You were you? Were you chef de cuisine or were you on research side? What was your title?

I was the I was the head chef of the Fat Duck experimental kitchen.

All right. So right safe to say people get agitated that they're right.

Yeah. Tempers might have gotten raised a few times.

Yeah. So here's a theory I have about cooking in like professional cooking people in general, is that like, for some people that like hyper like I get it you have to be hyper on edge and on point when you're a perfectionist and everybody can screw it up and everyone has to be on point all the time. But then you really get knuckleheads in there so frightened because of the way everyone acts that they're like, I will just literally follow and I will not ask because if I ask I will be decapitated Baba and then you get this kind of crap happening. I wonder whether your food actually ends up more ruined than not because you freak the hell out of that person as soon as they show up in the door What do you guys think?

My my personal thought is the more you can get someone to relax the better off they'll do with when it comes to food.

Right? But it's a fine line. Right? So like famously like Nick gwanwyn his first week working at sambar like 8 billion years ago. Like totally messed up the family meal like ruined it like burnt it like crispy, crispy, ruined, burnt, like so. Chris, just for in a picture in your head and entire, like a couple of hotel pans of braise, where the liquid run out. So you got that in your head. So it's like, it's all ruined, it's ruined. And so like and Chang happened to be in the kitchen that day. And so normally, you would get completely eviscerated for something like that. But Chang happened to catch the look of horror on Nick's face as he opened the thing and realized that there was so much internal self punishment happening, that like any external punishment would have been just superfluous, you know what I mean? So that's, that's what you want to like, instill in people that like, like, internal of self abuse, that's where doing self loathing self abuse, that's what makes a good cook is is like this self abuse self loathing thing. You know what I mean? I

came to your own. Absolutely. That's why I still sell flagellate every night.

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I think it's like, if you're looking for someone ArtPlace really quick, if you're looking for someone that you want them to be a good cook, like, if they're like, super, the reason that I think that chefs hate super confident people. Isn't that just that there's not knows right? And like and like think they know more than they do? It's that they don't give off the feeling that they're punishing themselves enough? Do what I'm saying. It's like, you got it, you got it. You want that punishment? That's self punishment.

It shows them that you care.

I think like I think you need to apply a lot less external punishment, if you can engender in people or find people who will punish themselves. Easier said than done.

And look, if you want people that are driven, that are that are reliable, that push themselves hard. The problem is, you know, you're mostly dealing with like 19 to 25 year olds, and some people haven't a lot of people at 19 to 25 are flaky and not worth your time. So like that's the challenge is like sorting out the ones who are going to work versus the ones who are just going to flake out.

All right, well, but do you think you can you do either of you actually think that you can take someone who doesn't have that sort of internal drive and actually get that drive into them? Or is it just you're like winning or losing on the margins based on what's already there, when they show up, you can teach skills, you can teach a lot of things. You can teach kitchen etiquette, you can teach all of these things. But can you really teach someone to give a crap or it mean, obviously, being surrounded by other people to give a crap helps people to give a crap more. And if you're even someone who's comes in giving a crap, if everyone around Joker, they stopped giving a crap. But can you really train someone to give a crap?

Doesn't mean yourself right?

What do you think, Chris?

I'd say my success with that is pretty marginal. And you know, these days, I don't have the time for it. So if you're not going to care, I'm not going to invest my time. Or how

about this? How about training? Obviously, people show up and they don't have skill and they can acquire skill, right? But you this nothing you meet people, you know, that XYZ person is never going to get fast. You know what I'm talking about? Because they don't have this kind of sense of urgency. Do you think you can train sense of urgency in the kitchen?

Yeah, I think that I think that's, that's learnable if you if you care. I mean, you know, I remember when I first got to the Fat Duck as a stock air, I was like, so in over my head. I was always in the weeds. But you know, I came earlier, I stayed later, I put the time and then people help people who help themselves. So yeah, you can learn that sense of urgency.

I don't know, Nick, you had a little like a little bit of a vegan face on what do you, you don't think you can train speed or not speed. But urgency, right? Speed comes your ability to be fast comes with practice, your ability to understand that the food needs to get out right now.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people come into the kitchen, especially new people, like they don't have that sense of urgency. They don't understand why it is. And then it's up to you to explain to them why it's important. And to show them like, listen, everybody else is running circles around you. And you're dragging the rest of the team down. So pick it up for us, we got to find something where they're gonna

they're gonna hate you. And you know, gank you with a shift.

But yeah, so but when he was like, I wish there was some there's got to be some way to help people other than this kind of like, prison mentality. You know what I mean? There's got to be some non prison mentality way. I mean, look, is that what,

you just got to treat everybody? This is just me, right? But I like to treat all my staff as individuals to try to figure out what makes them tick. What do you find, like, what makes them tick, and you make that connection, it's a lot easier to get them to do what you want, because now it's not doing what you want. They do what they want to do, which also aligns with what you want them to do.

Right. I mean, it's an interesting, it's an interesting problem

takes a lot more time. And effort and patience, a lot of patience, right?

I mean, the kind of like, Yeah, I mean, the prison mentality thing comes with the low pay and the need to get everyone up and operational quick, but it's just I think it's really long run pernicious. I really think It's long run pernicious. Don't like it. Okay, well, so Chris, do you want it? Like, are you coming out with a new jewel? Oh, that's what we're talking about. So the jewel doesn't have these problems even if your knucklehead in turn overwrapped the jewel the jewel would not have any problems with that. Theoretically, you can dishwash it right? You don't tell people you can, but you theoretically can. Right?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you know, we didn't go through the rigorous certification to say this thing is like submersible. And, frankly, we don't think that's a great idea. But if you drop it in the water, if you throw it in the sink, if you throw it in the dishwasher, that's not going to break it. It's a stupid ass thing to do, but it's not going to break

it. What about if you throw it at your chef with a break?

You know, we do the three foot drop test and it survives pretty well.

So if you hit the chef in the chest, it'll be okay.

You know, if you're, it's sturdy enough, though, you're probably going to end up going to prison for assault.

So is it the new like, remember when Maglites it used to be like, not only is it a flashlight, but you can beat the crap out of people with it. Remember that back in the day, and you'd buy your mag light based on how many details

you have the giant for de sel, you know mag like. And that's exactly what I was going for. When we designed it. I wanted that sort of sturdiness. You could clock someone over the head with

it. So in other words, like if you have a bunch of jewels in your kitchen, you don't need to have the baseball bat behind the bar like we always do.

Now you can just tuck them at the end of jewel.

There you go. It's metal, it's very nicely machined metal thing.

Solid forged stainless steel, those parts aren't going to ding

Yeah, that's sweet man. Yeah, and just a note, like, unlike a lot of a lot of other, you know, circulators that you see, or any piece of equipment, really, all the parts are basically sub assemblies that you get from other people. Whereas the Julia took the interesting kind of step of kind of custom engineering, everything from maximum density, almost like an iPhone mentality of design. You know what I mean? Yeah,

there's out of 37 parts in Juval. The only off the shelf part is what is the single screw that's inside it. So yeah, everything's custom engineered. We even engineered the manufacturing process, and the robots that build it. So we kind of went overboard.

Yeah. Have you visited your robot army?

I just got back. I was in China earlier this month. So I got to go to Shanghai and Suzhou, and all over. So yes, I was visiting the robot army and I want more robots.

Everybody wants more robots. And you're lucky you get to go to a good food town, I get to go to Shenzhen. And when I go to China, not that chansons bad people, it's mean. But it's no Shanghai. You know what I'm saying? I'll say

it Shinzen is terrible. Don't go.

Wow. So like, if you're going to compare Shenzen to a US city, what would it be?

Detroit is way more productive than Detroit. Oh, wow.

Wow. Yeah. All right. So what do you do? Like is it like Dallas?

At the risk of like, sales are going to plummet now in Texas, but it's huge, like all of those cities are absolutely massive. And it's hard to get a sense of scale, like you think of New York City is big, but like, New York City wouldn't be that big of a city by China's standards, not swallow it. And you know, Shinzen is really, really productive. But you know, it's dirty. It's dirty, and it's chaotic. And people are busy, like building shit and garages and everything. So I don't know. I guess it's like Detroit during the glory days of manufacturing cars,

or sounds like New York, but New York doesn't have anyone building anything. Oh, New York. We can't can't get anything built here. Chris, have you ever tried to get something built in New York City are such a nightmare. It's impossible to do everything.

I can't I cannot imagine it's worse than trying to get something built in France, which was which was my unenviable task. It's a Fat Duck.

Oh my god. Yeah.

What were beaten up on everyone. Texas, China. Senza. In particular, France, York. Let's kick. Who else? Who else have we? Sold everybody. Yeah.

Anyway. Okay. Wait, but do you want to say anything specific before we just answer questions, some of which involve ChefSteps and some of which are cvwd. related?

No, nothing specific. I'm just you know, happy to take any questions your your callers committees have.

So listen, this is your chance to talk to Chris Young about any sort of either ChefSteps oriented thing of a jig or any sort of jewel related thing and the jig which I guess is or whatever

they want to talk about modernist or The Fat Duck, whatever. All right, you have my time.

718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 All right. So so we got Carlos reading, and this is something that you know, all of us except for Peter. Peter has nothing to say about this noncoding first of all, hope all's well with you. Well, that's why I love you. If you hate yourself, I love you. I hope all as well and that day that's me enjoyed my trip to El Paso. So I did we didn't get to talk that much I love Warriors is actually pretty cool even though no one goes there. I mean like warriors is like not mean. War is like if you're going to take Shenzen or warriors, I would take Juarez, velvet paintings in Juarez than they do. Yeah, Peter was also with me in Juarez was a good town, right? Yeah. How many velvet paint? Have you been to Shenzen? I saw zero velvet paintings.

And that was a pretty sweet painting you picked up on the street there?

Oh, hell yeah. What else was the velvet? Velvet painting capital of the world? Yeah, for a long time. Do you like the other paintings? Nick one? Yes, Chris. Are you a fan of velvet paintings?

My entire house is outfitted with velvet paintings of Elvis and this is

why I like you. Okay. I'm writing to get his take on putting oil or fat into the bag when cooking with an immersion circulator. My main question and Chris think about this because I don't know if you've thought about this. My main question is about flavor dilution, and his guide to cvwd steak. Kenji Lopez all says he tested with olive oil and butter and that they've diluted the flavor by pulling fat soluble flavor compounds from the aromatics and the beef into the bag liquid which is then typically discarded. Curiously, his chicken breast post doesn't mention adding fat at all and only discussing aromatics. However, in his halibut and salmon posts, he does say that how a bit of flesh absorbs flavor better than land meat and adding fat will prevent multiple portions from fusing together. Meanwhile, now we're talking about you the chef's step guys preach that fat should always be added to the bag. It seems their main reasons for this presentation, no corner of the bag, deforming the food, no aromatic stamping the food and washing away, and the ability to wash away the albumin from the salmon. It seems kind of obvious that different foods will take different preparations. But I'm curious as to Dave, Amy's my take, especially with regards to flavor dilution. Thanks, again, looking forward to the next book or index and the low temp book, or I'll give me my point of view. First of all, I've never done a triangle test with meat that has had, you know, like butter, or you know, in it versus not. I will say this was not true. I've done it with oil like oh, like heavily flavored oil definitely adds a flavor to things like salmon, there's no freaking question that it's true. But on a steak, I've never really noticed a difference in the taste of a steak between with butter or without butter. I've also tasted the butter that I've used and the oil I've used from the bag. And yes, it will take on your your whatever rosemary or your garlic or any of that onions alliums, it will pick up it does have a taste especially meaty. So I'm very, very, not a big believer that you're going to dilute the flavor of your meat overly much with the oil, I just don't buy it. And Kenji specifically doesn't mention that he did a triangle test. It was more I think kind of theoretical and him thinking that this was an effect, I will say this, if you're using the Zippy technique to put, you know, to fill your bag, you need oil, because you need something that's liquid that's in the bag straight up, you need it. And when you're doing a hard vacuum in a vacuum bag, unless your product is frozen in the bag is going to squish the hell and make ugly pillow shapes on your meat if you don't have some sort of fat in the bag. And that really is the only reason to do it. Other than you have this fat leftover that you can use for other things. Exceptional foods. Yeah, but what's your take on it, Chris?

So you can he's a really smart guy. So I'm hesitant to disagree, but I'm gonna go Yeah, I didn't see a triangle test. So whenever a chef and even if it's me, or it was Heston, it's like, if there's not a triangle test, you haven't done it a couple of times. And somebody's making a pretty bold claim like that I'm inherently suspicious. Here's the other thing that I that I know that, you know, there's this idea of diluting flavor adding flavor. But that's not really how humans perceive flavor. And there's a misunderstanding that, like more concentration means more flavor. That's not really true. What the sensory scientists have shown is what humans are really good at, is detecting how quickly the aroma aromatic molecules the rate of change, like how quickly it goes from zero to 100. And back to zero, we don't detect absolute concentrations. So the idea that you can pull all of the state D flavor out in diluted into the butter, that like even if the concentration were going to go down a little bit, when you bite into that state and start chewing it, the rate of flow or the rate of change, stinky flavor is going to go through the roof no matter what. So I'm pretty skeptical. I'm willing to do the triangle test. But I think the benefits of better appearance having some fats in the bag that I can use to make a pan sauce. I think that outweighs any risks that you're somehow reducing the immediate impact of the state.

Right? And it's 100% true that if you bag raw meat without any sort of liquid fat, that it distorts and makes ugly shapes on the meat. And it's also 100% true that if you could mitigate that by vacuuming less, but then you have air pockets which like can make little nasty you ever noticed how sometimes with air pocket especially when your temperatures are pretty low and there's oxygen touching the meat you'll get a weird, discolored area where the air pocket was Chris

Yeah Absolutely, it

doesn't really matter because you're going to posterior it, but I just don't like it because that that color also indicates that there's possible oxidation going on there, which does actually affect the whatever. I know it's not, that's not a big deal either. So I'm not going to make a big point about that, but I generally don't like it. And if you're using zipties, which is 99.9% of what I do, you're using hippies, then you have to have fat. I will say this though. I do it the other way a lot. Like if I buy meat, it's already in the cryo. Chris, you're gonna get really mad at me. Like if I don't have a lot of time, I'll just toss the frickin market cryo into the into the circulator and go with it. I know I probably shouldn't you be

totally fine. Like, you know, especially if you're just trying to get dinner on the table like don't let perfection be the enemy of like done.

There you go. There you go. And especially because like a lot of you if you're gonna go out and you're gonna get a steak, you're gonna get a high value cut and a lot of high value cuts at like higher end like butchers are pre portioned from the supplier. So if you're getting like a freedom or Nebraska or one of these like weird piemontese cuts or any one of these things, a lot of those like the the ribs, the strips and the porter houses come pre portioned in the cryo, and I'll tell you this is true. Current things that are in cryo not frozen things I actually did a test recently of from frozen in cry from store cryo, but the a couple tests, but there is something in let in what's nicely called Wet aged. Let's let's give it a nice term wet aging, right? And all everyone here knows that when you open a cryo bag on fresh meat that it's got that cryobank smell to it, Chris, you know, I'm talking Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that not my favorite smell in the world. No, it goes away. You know what I mean, like, and so I've tested that, like, the searing knocks that stuff out. It's no longer perceptible. As long as it's not bad. It's no longer perceptible. And there have been several scientific studies on the smell of cryo bagged cryo bagged meat when it comes out. And all of them have shown fairly rigorously that having an out of the bag for a while just 30 minutes out of the bag without cooking will remove that smell, but searing it knocks it out. So don't worry overly much about that. Would you agree or disagree, Chris?

I mean, I agree. I'm actually wondering if those smell of those the smell the aromatic molecules actually react to a tyranny, you actually get a better SEER from it I've ever tried.

Maybe they're like, they're like mild, anaerobic bacterial bull. craps is what they are like non spoilage, bacterial bull crabs, I get if I remember what you know, I won't. I'll forward you the papers.

Oh, I'd love to see the papers. We should call it meat koji and make it a thing.

Well, you know, we're going to have pretty soon on our quest from Boston who puts koji on everything is going to come on. So we're able to talk about it. We got a caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Doing? All right. What do you got for us?

All right. I'm AJ. I'm from Charleston, South Carolina. I have a couple questions about lemon curd for you. Okay. The first one is I'm going to use lemon curd as a cake filling and wedding cake. And I want to be a little bit thicker than I normally would make it. But they're looking for something a little less rich and a little less sweet. I've already reduced the sugar. And I'm wondering what kind of gel agency might recommend for something a little bit looser than like a jello consistency. But vice and not run? Because I have to kind of keep the yoke, the yoke and sugar level down. So I can't take any of that.

Yeah, so I'm gonna let Chris because Chris did a bunch of experiments on courage for Modernist Cuisine back in the day. So I'm gonna let him chime in in a second. I will say this, anytime someone says they want it less sweet, they probably don't actually have a reference in their head, like lemon curd in certain tart applications is incredibly sweet. But other lemon curds are not that sweet at all. Whatever. I mean, like, I don't like thinking a lot about having to worry about clusters if they're right or wrong if I'm doing a one off, so in general, I just like I just cheat and I probably would probably use something like, like, I would probably just fluid Gelatt because that's what that's just the way I would roll out probably gel and fluid. Gelatt but Chris probably has an actual way to make the customers work. Chris, what do you think?

So, you know, just lemon curd. You know, my immediate reaction goes to pectin, like fluid jello, totally work. And this, this was the Fat Duck again, I'd be busting out the gel and F and you know, fluid gelling it up. But you know, the acid in lemon kind of makes things difficult, but texting is going to be easy and it's got great flavor release and you know, it's readily available. And if you really want to go low sugar, which is going to mean it's going to be sour as heck. You can get the low sugar pectin in grocery stores that they sell for like low sugar jams and jellies.

And Alamo pectin, that's low methoxy. That's yeah, that's LM pectin and

it'll work fine and lemon curd and you get a really nice texture and you can bring the sugar way down if you want.

Do you have a recipe for that on ChefSteps anywhere an LM custard

not on ChefSteps and I'm trying to pull up ancient history of some 2200 page book that I was involved in. There is going to be a lemon curd recipe in volume four in the fluid gel section but my recollection is it is it's going to be probably an AR fluid gel, which isn't actually what I do now i i get some text in and do just a little bit of experimenting and if you just if you just basically follow with a jelly recipe, and maybe cut the concentration of the pectin in half I think you're gonna get something that is going to work for you

right but you're doing you're not doing postinjection right you're doing bass you're doing bake in place no like putting getting baked inside. Sorry, are you doing like a postinjection are you doing like the Betty Crocker style putting baked inside action thing where it like comes out of the oven with the with the crap inside of it.

Oh no baking all the layers separately making the fillings and

yeah man golden go make like make it jelly style like Chris is saying if you want to go if you want to go you know try to tweak it out using low impact in otherwise just fluid gel the hell out of that thing and then it's going to stay like it'll like the next Ice Age will come and go and your your customer will be fine. You don't have the

effect. It also seems like a good cheap option as well. And then a real quick lemon curd but not for the same application. If I'm making Meyer lemon curd, and I want to Kennett, how would you recommend I boost the acidity? So that way it's a bit safer for the so

citric acid. Just citric acid Yeah, like the acidity in Meyer lemon is just a more it's a less a less aggressive amount of citric acid. And there's no there are minor other acidic constituents in lemon, but mean citric acid Well, Chris, you don't know the acidity off the top of your head of Meyer lemon D I do not

know and it's it's gonna it's gonna vary but unless you want to pressure candidate which I don't recommend, you know, I would I would add just a little bit of citric acid or if you don't want to go get pure citric acid, just blend in some normal lemon juice to get the pH low enough that you can, you can actually see the candidate we've got a bunch of content coming out on that. But if you if you cook it in a jar right in a Suvi bath, you can you can actually pasteurize it long enough to make it shelf stable with subi. And that way, you don't have to go as high a temperature so you're not going to get that that cooked citrus flavor as much

right? The only issue is when I'm in Jersey has lemon juice and lemon juice and 6% acidity whereas citric acid straight citric acid is like 100% acidity and they sell it in the stores. You mean

All right, perfect. Gotcha. Well, that's all I had for today. I just got food food lab as a Christmas gift, or as a birthday gift rather. And I'm stoked about that and the jewel is going to be my next kitchen. So I'm really happy especially to catch you guys on air. Thank you very much for your help

Nyquil. Hey, Chris. That's that's in stock right now. Right. Sorry. See what jewels in stock right now?

Oh, yeah, it's in stock. If you order it, it will be at your house within three days. Nice. Awesome, right on. Well, if you ask one of your if you have somebody who has a jewel, they can give you a referral coupon right from every app that they opened the or even if you download the app and create an account, you can get a referral coupon that will save you 20 bucks if you order it from chefsteps.com Even better,

I could tip we'll be right back with the whole gearing and cooking issues.

This episode is brought to you by Joule, the immersion circulator for Su V by ChefSteps. If you're listening to this show, you're probably a pretty good cook. Maybe you already know that su VT is the best way to get a kick ass juicy steak. And with jewel a new Suvi tool from ChefSteps you can do so much more smoky tend to ribs homemade yogurt cream brew lay bright, crunchy pickles, vibrant purees even smooth, creamy ice cream all perfectly cooked every time. Joule is sleek and small enough to fit in your kitchen drawer. And it's operated by an elegant smartphone app that's been designed to remove the guesswork get you cooking faster and give you the information and inspiration you want when you want it. Browse ChefSteps amazing recipes and helpful guides. Choose your perfect doneness for any meet and get notified when your food is ready. You know you'll get great results so you can focus on sides and sauces or just pour yourself a cocktail and chill until you're ready for a delicious dinner. For more information and to order yours now visit chefsteps.com/joul II

and we are back but on four Fortunately for you guys well maybe fortunately I'm reading a another piece of advertisement to you. Modernist pantry is created by food lovers and cooking issues fans just like you Janie Chris in the modernist pantry family, share your passion for experimentation and have everything you need to make culinary magic happen in your own kitchen. professional chef home cooked food enthusiasts. No matter what your skill or experience monitors pantry has something for you. They make it easy to get the ingredients and tools you need and can't find anywhere else so that you can spend less time hunting and gathering and more time creating memorable dishes and culinary experiences. Visit monitors pantry.com today to discover why cooking uses listeners call modernist pantry that cooks secret weapon. Be sure to check out their new kitchen alchemy blog at blog dot mountain modernist pantry.com for free recipes, tips and tricks. And don't forget to follow modernist pantry on social media to keep up with what is new and exciting in the world of culinary ingredients and tools. Right now, that wasn't enough advertising Peter Kim.

Oh wow, this is a great setup. Everybody's very enthusiastic to hear about this. But we've got the Mofaz Spring Gala coming up on April 13. We have a good crew coming in got Gail Simmons hosting Marcus Samuelson's cooking guides. We're honoring Ruth Reisel. And it's coming up on April 13. We got some schmuck doing cocktails.

I hate that guy.

I know. Eugene something. Yeah, no, now they do. The man with three first names David Eugene Arnold, coming in to make cocktails. Yeah, so yeah. So anyway, we're celebrating immigrant food cultures and details that benefit that mo fed.org. And yes, it's 750. So it's not $7.50

Right. For some of you like bargain. Yeah, no,

it's definitely a pretty penny. But it definitely it's, in my estimation, the best dining event in the city. Oh, yes.

It really sounded there. Peter

speeches. Yes, yes. And it. You know, of course, most importantly, supports the exhibits and programs of the Museum of food drink, which is something that I think you care a little bit about.

I care a lot about that. So one more thing I have to get out of my head because I just got told about this. I haven't seen it. But apparently, Nick Huang was featured on a documentary about Noma where they walk up to Nick Guang as part of the kitchen and then they he's chopping veg, chopping veg at a station. And the camera person this made it into the documentary walks up, puts a microphone, like at Nick's face doesn't look up. He's still chopping veg, and the person goes, so would you like to say something about what it's like to work at Noma? He goes, nope. And keep slicing veg.

Slightly Exaggerated. Yeah, it's just a YouTube video. Oh, do the just food blogger named Doug scones? Yeah, yeah, it's not a guy. He's he was that he was at Noma doing a little like, video tour of Noma documentary.

Well, it was like does, doctor why aren't we still gonna

cut your head off?

I can't wait. I deserve it.

Yeah. All right. So anyway, I love that. Nope. All right. Chris, here's another good one for you. All right. You still there, Chris? Yep, I'm here. All right, I got a good one for you on shocking, which is from the modern, like a Modernist Cuisine. I don't know whether it was it's while you were there. I think I was perusing some of the old blog topics for Modernist Cuisine today and ran across an article on heat, shocking produce. So what they do is, is they they put into a bag or if you don't need to, so like asparagus, or asparagus is two or three minutes at 131 F. Broccoli is like seven, eight minutes at like 117 F which is 4070. And cantaloupe is like 60 minutes at like 50 degrees C, and so on. There's a whole bunch of things that they recommend. But it's basically to kill off the enzymes and stuff like that. And McGee did something on that for berries to preserve berries for longer. So like, so what do you what do you what do you think about that?

So yeah, I was involved in some of that. And, you know, this came out of some academic papers that we pulled it was looking at, like, how do you keep berries fresher for longer? And, you know, I don't think the mechanisms were entirely understood. I certainly don't think we Modernist Cuisine understood exactly what what the mechanisms were. I don't know if the academic literature has resolved it but these low temperature heat checking didn't so much destroy and denature and as rather, it kicked sort of a kick them into high gear. And so that could both accelerate ripening, but it also seemed to accelerate sort of the production of some of the chemical byproducts that keep like any bacteria on the surface from rotting the fruit or veg and so you could take things like fresh berries, briefly thermal shock them at pretty low temperature Here's like, not enough to cook them or change their texture. But all of a sudden, they would have like a six or an eight week shelf life, like, you know, if you get like raspberries, and you have them, you know, you have them on your counter, they're gonna get a little, they're gonna get a bunch of molds and stuff growing on them pretty quick. Yep, if you heat if you heat shock to them, you're essentially going to prevent that they're going to be fine for a really long time, in your fridge or even even on your counter. And it seems to be a combination of you're weakening a lot of the molds and yeasts and surface bacterias on the fruit. And you're also sort of putting the the the the fruits in the magic system into overdrive so it can protect itself and a half as byproducts was for some fruit and veg. It also accelerates the ripening, so like melons and stuff. You know, especially the cantaloupes that we tend to get in the United States that are as solid as a boulder. They'll soften up they'll get a lot more aromatic though they'll get fruit here, which you know is a nice outcome to Well