Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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This is Dave Arnold, your host coming to you?

From the repeater in Bushwick Brooklyn, on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 Oh yeah, we're back. Hey guys

call in your questions to send 1849727184972128 That's 718-497-2128 got as usual in the studio. Anastasia the hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good. You miss me the past two weeks now. Now. We got Dave in the booth. How you doing? Good. I missed you. See, you know why he missed me because I took the zoom with me the Zoom microphone. Oh, yeah. And he needed it back. I'm like, could the walk in over here working? I mean, Pittsburgh?

No, I knew you had one that was just a call for all the other ones that I forget where they went to where are

people storing these things?

It's good question.

I don't want to think about it. And we have we got a question in on pasta machines. And for that reason, my favorite Fiddler of pasta machines. Alex Talbot from ideas in food. You know, famously Alex nakki ideas and food is on the line. How you doing Alex?

Good, Dave. How are you doing? Well

doing well. So I haven't been on the line. So I don't know whether he's gonna stick around past this initial question. But you know, if he does, you might want to call on your questions. You know, you don't always get to ask Alex questions. Live on the radio, but let me give you the question. So for those of you that don't know, the ideas and food YouTube have been working with the how do you pronounce anyway? arcobaleno arcobaleno how you pronounce that thing? A couple ale or Camilla Yeah, sure. So I think, you know, you guys were maybe the first people that I was aware of that were normal humans, you know, might not normal humans, obviously, you know, you like a well known, like food people but I mean, in other words, not like a restaurant or production facility that started using this kind of smaller format, pasta extruder. And it's it's awesome, right? You love it?

It's phenomenal. I mean, they've got a number of levels of pasta extruder size, you know, they they didn't the machine, I think they change what is possible for restaurants and restaurant kids. Right? So

what's the throughput I started working with them wasn't synchronizing.

Again, the more people that started working with him, and tinkering and exploring what's possible with pasta, it has more people saying, Okay, what if we did this? And what if we did that, and then did that demand for creativity. And I think the demand for better grains and the demand for really exploring the entire landscape of noodles, and pushing the boundaries of possibilities. And the search for really the most amazing parts you can put together is, is, is growing and developing. So let's

just get some stuff out of the way. So people know what we're talking about here, your machine, like cost roughly how much?

So the tabletop the ATX 18. Cost $5,000. Oh,

yeah, that's a lot. Go ahead.

You put it on the same scale as a pacojet. And a pacojet is for ice cream and a few other things. And I think they're phenomenal. But I think with a pasta machine, you are actually printing money. You will have your return on your investment in less than six months.

I don't know for a restaurant 100%. Like I think the person who wrote in the question I think is just an avid person at home who really wants one. So that mean that that's the market that's really not really being addressed, because there's like, it's a lot for someone at home.

So that said, they've actually retooled and created a POS machine for that market. It's still it's expensive, but it's it you can do 500 grams, five grams of dry matter. Okay, the HDX five, and that that comes in into the lovely price tag of what like $2,000.

And what does that like, seven 750 grams of pasta or so

you're gonna end up with 650 grams of back 500 grams of flour and the hydration at roughly 30% 50 grams of that. So you can kick it out. It's 150 grams of pasta at a shot out of E x five,

which by the way is enough for a house. That's

totally enough for house. In fact, I've got some friends that have small restaurants, and are using pastas as just a accompaniment. There, they've actually gotten to five, they can make, you know, 1215 orders a night. Right beautiful pasta. It's small, but it is a workhorse it makes unbelievable noodles.

Now let's let's just get some of the stuff out of the way. All of the inexpensive Pasta Machine extruders rather on the market like that attached to stand mixers, or that were made in the 70s. These are all garbage.

They don't work well because they'll make a noodle, we understand that. But part of it is is like I used to have a DeLonge years ago like 2001 Three to diagnose that and for 2005 when we were out at Kia Grande, I found one of the belongings on eBay and bought one and made noodles. My drones I was working on a flower base and also exotic noodles. And it worked. But it wasn't something that like maybe didn't produce for you sitting there just dicking around waiting for things to to happen, right?

It's hilarious actually looking at them how slowly the pasta comes out. It's like it's like a joke. It's like a bad joke.

You know, I mean, it's painful. I mean, it's lucky. Sure you can do it. Like I used the KitchenAid attachment, because I thought that was going to be my solution.

Nightmare. Horrible, horrible, horrible. Horrible.

I mean, I guess it's, you know, you're not going to use a Hugo to race. You know, in a car race.

That was my mistake. The last time I tried to race car stops was I got the Hugo for 400 bucks, and I thought I could win the race with it. And you just can't can't win the race with a Hugo. Here's the thing though, right? So there's a couple of reasons that those those things don't work right one, they're just not powerful enough, right. And so you have to use a relative even to get the slow rate out of it. You need to use a relatively high hydration dough. So your noodles are never going to be as good right? All right,

I mean, so you're increasing hydration and you're not you're not as dry, you're not as as compact and put together, you know, again, noodles want to be the least amount of moisture possible. And so when you're extruding it, and you really cut down the saturation, your noodles don't stick together, people always amaze. You know, because when you when you make an extruded Dell, it looks like streusel in the hopper, when you're mixing it, right, it gets compressed in there and you know, there's, there's a ton of pressure to turns it into a noodle proper.

And the problem with the high hydration along with the low force of the kind of crappy extruders is that even if you could dry it out properly, the surface just isn't very good of those things correct.

A lot of it, you're not seeing the same surface, but you're not seeing I mean, it's really hard to extrude a wet dough. It doesn't want it doesn't want me to it's like it's like trying to push you know, jello through a screen, I get jealous through a screen actually works. I guess it'd be more like, you know, the money through a screen.

Oh, that's ugly. I don't want to clean the screen after I push the Silly Putty through it. Now, so for those of you that don't know how these machines work, you should check out the videos. But basically, it does the mixing for you. And then after you do the mixing, you start extruding. So it's like all in one kind of a machine. Right? It is. Yeah. Okay. Oh, hey, by the way, have you ever used I was considering buying one but they're like 300 bucks. And I want to complete spending freeze Intel. We start shipping the spins off as you know when when that works, but the Have you ever used one of those like big ugly presses that you like, actually like, like screwed down to a bench and then you use what looks like a wine press to extrude those things ever use one of those?

Yeah. They have the beautiful lore of yesteryear. I am sure you would figure a way to retrofit it with some sort of drive train. So that you weren't sitting there being the guy sitting there twisting it, right. I mean, it produces a noodle but you are you are the you are the force.

That's not what Anastasia says. But the Yeah, they I think I mean, that's the kind of thing you kind of want to do a couple of times, but you don't want to do every you're not going to you're not going to be like hey, let me make a big lead tonight. Right?

No, I mean, so I mean, go back to it. I mean, like I will rip out the the pasta machine with you know, a half an hour before dinner and make pasta

right? Now what is it deal with the machine with the Extrude with the extrusion, it's not the same as with as with a regular, you know, she did pasta dough, right in terms of rest times that stuff doesn't apply in one of these machines, right? It's not

again, and really I think there's a lot of Miss Information even about with you know, she did pasta and rest time you got a lot of what's happening is we're paying attention to hydration. So you know, with the extruder you're looking at it and you want the moisture to be absorbed by the semolina or the Durham or whatever grains you're working with. Again, with a sheet of pasta, I mean, that's why I say that, you know, if you've got a vacuum sealer, you vacuum seal your dough, and you can roll it right away. Because you're expediting the hydration. It's not like we have to completely relax. It's not it's the power after properly hydrate. And that's why you go from that page to that nice, rich dark color that you get

by the vacuum sealing of the dial. Right I always when I want to do things kind of quickly at home, I always cheat into a higher hydration and then just and then just flour the hell out of it the first couple of times passes through the through the sheeter until it stops being tacky. And I know that that's probably not the best way to do it. But the it is the fast way to do it at home. You know what I mean?

Exactly, I mean that you're cheating the system. But that Joe, you better be cooking it right away as opposed to I'm gonna roll it out and put it in the fridge because you roll it out and put in the fridge and it's gonna it's gonna keep hydrating, and you're gonna have a

big dough man. Yeah, no, no, that's it's a right away cook. And you got to keep everything really separate because it wants to stick together. Bla bla bla bla bla. Yeah, I mean, talking about pasture is like, like, like one of the like, moisture, like moisture management, the miracle of moisture management problems that there is. But anyway, so this is all about the machine. And so the reason I'm prefacing all this, to the question that this, that poor poor guy from Montana wrote in, is that the miracle of these machines is not just the extrusion, but that they also facilitate the proper mixing of the dough. And that to make the dough in a separate machine and then feed it into an extruder might be more difficult. If you had, let's say, Kitchenaid as your primary mixer do you find Do you think that's true, or do you think that's false?

I think it's actually you can actually do it, and I know a number are chefs drawn craft out of pasta Ria. He's got some larger Uncle Billy notes and he's you know, he makes what? 200 pounds of pasta a day in his restaurant. So he uses a larger Hobart and dry mixes his dough and then just dropped it into the hopper. So he's always staying one step ahead and can do it. So on a smaller scale. Yeah, you can do it. You can, you can mix your dough and a Kitchenaid and then kick it into something else and extrude it. And again, he's doing that. So he has so much production that it makes sense for him to just to go from one to the other. Right? And he's just constantly feeding

because he doesn't want to waste the time to have it mix instead of just being extruding 100% of the time.

Exactly. So he's got his extruder literally extruding all the time. And he's just adding more dough to it as it continues to roll out so he can go nonstop.

Now you know, you know Johnny Hunter out of Madison, Wisconsin, right, chef was that you know Johnny Hunter out of Madison was constantly the chef in from underground meats in Madison.

I liked that better. I'm sorry. You're a bit staticky on my

Oh, Johnny Johnny Hunter, the chef from underground meats friend of the show out in Madison, Wisconsin. He uses this as more preface to this question. So I'm a big believer in like multiple practices to every question. He uses his large Hobart meat grinder as a masa grinder, which I've never tried, but I know a couple other people that have done it. The basically what I'm prefacing here is that the the actual real Hobart meat grinder is strong enough to extrude masa dough, probably and grind probably strong enough to extrude pasta dough. Right. So here are my questions because here's I'll read I'll read you now. Poor guy from Montana's question. Since you guys are professional restaurant equipment, producers designers, I want to ask you a question that has been driving me crazy. Why doesn't anyone make brass plates to stick into a meat grinder and extrude pasta with a number 12 hub meat grinder is cheap I wouldn't I would use the anyway. A plastic extruder is expensive Could I get a machine as to fabricate some brass plates from my cheap Chinese Hobart attachment and extrude pasta to my heart's delight poor guy from Montana. All right, now here's here's here's my thoughts and then you just go off ready one, meat grinder auger slightly different from a pasta auger, the pasta augers have looked at on the web have a constant pitch rather than kind of an accelerated pitch like a meat grinder has, that's one, too, you're going to want to remove the cutting blade off of the end of the meat auger meat grinder auger and replace it with just a spacer because you're not going to want that cutting force right behind your extruding die. But other than that, I think it might actually work. What do you think?

I think it'll work pretty much without a problem. I mean, you're, again, you're, you're you're fixing the problem sort of. So I guess you're allowing yourself to get to where you want to go. But if at the end of the day, you want to actually make pasta, you want to get the pasta machine if you want to adapt it for a couple of days a year or so to see if that works. But I think if you're going to start to make pasta you're gonna have such a demand for it that to be Jerry rigging your meat grinder to be extruding pasta dough is not a long term solution.

Oh yeah, in a restaurant 100%. But like, let's say, You're let's say that your your handle is literally poor guy from Montana. And, you know, you already own the grinder because like, you know, like two three times a year you grind a whole elk through it. Because, you know, the elk you know, the the elk is running through trampling on your garden anyway. So you shoot that elk right in the heart, you grind it through your Hobart, you have the Hobart sitting there, you know, you don't have a couple of grand, I would bet that you could find because here's the other thing like I don't know a lot about the plate sizes in in pasta extruders. But there's there's several different plate sizes and on eBay. You can get individual pasta plates for like, the dyes for like, I don't know, I forget like 100 bucks, right Alex or something like that. It seems to me that you could probably have someone make an attachment for the Hobart they would at least let you try it. And obviously if you were going to do this professionally, you know, obviously, you know you you want to go professionally but I think I think you might be able to get some test. I do think you'd need to remove the blade. Do you think so? Or do you think the blade wouldn't be a problem?

No, I mean, like I mean, if you look at the small meat grinder attachment anyways, a small the smallest die that they make. That's almost like a Beagley. Right. If you have one of those kicking around, I throw don't do it first and see and see what happens. I think it'll work

but on the on the die on the dice for those things, don't they? They're what's their, their chamfered aren't they to kind of like gently extrude extrude to the to the face surface like they're not It's not Like, it's not like a deep through all the way through, isn't it? Or no?

Not I mean, you said the positive deposit guys kick out. Yeah, they're they stick out speaking

smoothly, right? I mean other words, like, I think it's a little bit more difficult to extrude words, like, if you were going to extrude something through a plate, and it went from it went from being, you know, completely unexploited to the final hole size, and then had to traverse the entire length of the die at that diameter, I think that's going to be a lot harder for the machine to handle than if it's chamfered in the back, and then like, only has to pass through that thin place once through a small, you know, a small distance of going through that thin area, don't you think? So?

I so it depends on the shape. So like a spaghetti die. On the back of a spaghetti? Yeah, it's just all those holes, it just pushes it to do it. But for, let's say shells or something like that, it's got that smaller bit. So it downside is the dough. So it can actually come out as a shell.

Now, do you think that? I mean, I know that like for various texture reasons, yada yada, yada. You know, Brass is the material of choice or bronze as material choice for these dyes. But do you think that the stainless steel plates would work just as a test to see how well it would work?

Absolutely. I mean, look, you're already you've already decided that you're going to run pasta dough through a meat grinder, I don't think we need to get meticulous about getting a bronze dye.

So as a first test poor guy from Montana can like take the blade out of the back, just put a bushing on it to take up the slack and see whether or not he can push it through the you know, through the, you know, the medium or the or the I don't know how fine the plate plate he has, but just test it to see whether it works. Exactly.

I mean, I think there's an inch, which is what you'll be like, vaguely so I'll give that a shot. I mean, on the on the on the on like the they also they also make one for juicers, right for like beyond the those the slow wrestle revolutions users. They make pasta plates for those, again, homestyle. But so it's that's not too much of a difference than a meat grinder as well. Right?

But I'm assuming poor guy from Montana wants to use the like an actual proper hydration dough. The other thing I'm concerned about is isn't your pasta auger longer for its diameter than a meat auger is?

I think it depends on your darn machine. I mean, the auger is pretty big. But again, it's that's because it's a pretty big hopper. So it's taking dough from the whole space.

Right. But in other words, part of the actual compression and hydration is happening in the augering procedure. So the I think it's,

I think it's pulling it in. And I think it's only in the in the neck of the machine where you're having having it happen. I think it's it's literally the dose just dropping in earlier on.

Right, right, right, but is the neck longer for the diameter of the auger than it would be because like a Kitchenaid meat grinder, which I'm no fan of, I love the KitchenAid by the way, but I'm zero fan of their meat grinder. The auger is extremely short on that and also plastic. So I don't know that you're going to be able to generate, I don't know that you have the time to get the dough in the proper condition consistency from that crumbly thing to being perfect dough, you know, in the traverse time of that of that particular meat grinder, because the auger is so short, even if you had enough power to you know, overcome it, you know what I'm saying? I do

think that our meat grinder that we use, we use about the lamb meat grinder, right? We just got a big auger. I mean, you know, but it's made out super fast. So I think it'd be interesting to see how it's how it kicked out. Go Yeah, I think it would grab it but I I wonder if it's almost too fast that you want something moving a little bit slower.

And you can't they're not meant to be changed. Here's another thing by the way. So poor guy from Montana is using a Hobart knockoff from China. And something I will tell you about motors is that a lot of motors really, really really really do not enjoy being loaded beyond their stated capacity right? And so I guarantee you the good people at the Hobart Corporation have taken into account the fact that everyone and you know and their sibling is going to completely and utterly abused their product in most commercial like actual Nam namebrand commercial restaurant equipment that I've ever used. You can beat the ever loving crap out of it and you might you might flip a thermal you might melt a safety off you might you know boil water you might burn your hand on the motor, but afterwards it's going to come back to life. Like knockoff versions like I often find like you know they use cheaper gears so you might break the gear in a situation if you because a pasta dough is a lot freakin force, you know what I'm saying? And so you want slow extrusion with extremely high force. And so, you know, you might run into problems with the, with the Hobart, with the Hobart knockoff there. Whereas, as you're saying, you know, with like the real ones, it's either it's going to work or it's going to not not, it's going to be too fast or it's not, but I wouldn't worry that I'm going to destroy the machine because I'm presuming it's built with a level of quality that can withstand that. Whereas, you know, if, if the thing is, the thing might be like a complete champ on me, but then, you know, you try to shove something that's really hard into it and you fry it. It's like my mixed ematic my masa grinder, you know, churns through masa like a champ, because that's what it's designed to do. But you put you put like, peanuts with sugar. You know, how, you know how when you process sugar and nuts together, it turns into like, basically concrete. Alex, you ever done that one? Like it, like the pace turns to like concrete, because I was doing it to try to get maximum oil extraction. And it seized the machine and then like, the giant puff of smoke out of the back and came back to life, thank goodness. But, you know, you have to, you know, when you overload something, you have to be careful, especially if it hasn't been designed with thermal protection in mind. Just a little tip.

It's like another cold if, yeah,

we can keep Alex on the on the Oh, yeah, definitely. All right, caller you're on the air. Hey,

this is a student in Montana. How you guys doing? Oh, hey,

are you are you poor guy? No, I'm

not poor guy.

All right. Well, I love that we have at least two people in Montana that are listening. It's amazing. All right,

guys, what's your question got more than that. I have a bag use questions. I like to do my burgers low temp, I try a little butter in the bag, maybe some garlic. When they're done, I have a delightful bag to use usually about half oil, or fat and half liquid, then what I tend to do is brush it on the bonds and grill the buns. And it's delicious. But there are two problems. One is sometimes using the brush, you end up with just oil and just water. So I saw that one, I added a little lecithin and blend it in a multiply, but it's still really really runny. And so it makes the funds really soggy. So when I was wondering, is there a way to get that use into something resembling a mayonnaise or a spread that I could spread on the phones before hitting them on the grill?

Well, I mean, Alex, I'm gonna let you chime in for a second. But in a second, but like a lot of the a lot of this, especially if you're doing this in kind of service restaurant situation. It was when I was working with juicers out of bags, or anything like this, sauces on braises, etc. Typically, what I would do is I would use yesterday's bag juice to work with today's product. And what that does for you is it gives you some extra time. So then if you if you have that, you know, fat from yesterday, then sure you can make a mayonnaise out of it. You know, like traditionally, like with egg whites, you can do whatever you want, you know, you can pre boil the bag juice to get rid of the extra scummy proteins, string it all through with the liquid. You know, take an egg yolk, mayonnaise it or use any of the kind of more modern techniques to do it and then use yesterday's product on today's burger. And like that's the easiest way. Because I find that most of the interventions that are gonna let you do anything rather than just brush it on, aren't a I'm just going to do this while this thing is, you know finishing or getting ready to go out because it just takes a little more it's just a little more frantic, frantic or hectic. If you do it that way. Alex, what do you think?

Well, since we're speaking with you about and on the line about it, that actually sounds like a prime use for your spins off. In the sense that I would take all the juices and run through your centrifuge, have the fat, have the liquid and have the scum, make the fat and the liquid and then be able to make my beautiful mayonnaise with the fat in the liquid. And then get rid of the scum in one shot and then be just had this great production,

right? Sure. But you would use yesterday's product you'd use yesterday. Yeah, you can.

There's no way you're pulling it and going, you've got to get at least one day ahead. So the first day somebody gets screwed, they don't get the quite the same experience.

So I'm just I'm just at home here. And so I understand this, as you're saying that that's maybe not possibility for same day service. But what would be your technique? Let's say I do have some some pages from yesterday and you're talking about some more modernist ways that are just traditional ways to whip up the man as what would what would be your technique there?

Well, if you were if you let's just go back to your actual problem for a sec. So if you're trying to do it with today's with today's product, right, yeah. What I would do is I would the issue with mayonnaise in general, other than it is delicious is that you want us Stay within the within the proper ratio of fat to liquid. So you're going to want to stay about 80% fat or there abouts. If you go, if you go too much more liquid than that it's going to get too thin. If you go too much little, you know a lot more fat than that. Isn't that right now it's about 80% right and then if you go too much above that it could break you're gonna get that shimmery look at the top and break. So what you could do if you want to do this on the quick is you could pre start a man is, right. So if you priests if you take an egg yolk, and you know you prestart a mayonnaise, but don't, don't like let it stay thin but not not broken, don't fully mount it up to its full capacity, then you can dope. You can dope your fat from the bag back in along with the mixture alternatively, because, you know, if you read Harold McGee, an egg yolk can really we can really take a lot more oil than we're used to. Let's say your bag juice to fat ratio is around 80% in that range, then you can pre make a mayonnaise fully mounted up right to Manet's texture. Then just whisk your your whole garbage together and then boom into the mayonnaise and it should hold it. I mean, I would test it. You know, Alex, what would you add to stabilize it? Would you add anything to stabilize it? Or do you think this would work? I think it would work. Do we lose Alex Dave? Sounds like it. Maybe he'll call back in I think it'll work Manet's is a little bit, hopefully we'll call back in man is can be a little bit tricky. We used to teach the class with Harold McGee at the Sei, we would we would make a gallon of mayonnaise out of one egg yolk. And it's always a little bit trying like you know, like we always get like really close to a gallon and then it would finally break. But you know, like you can you can do pretty well. It's just about keeping your liquid to, to fat ratio proper. And also, you know, you obviously you have to add salt and whatnot or mayonnaise is god awful. And it's nice to have a little acid or again, mayonnaise, you know, I don't like mayonnaise without some acid in it because it's just in it's in kind of insipid garbage. I've never made a mayonnaise with butter. I don't know why maybe because I'm a low quality individual. By the way, Dax is working on the low quality individual shirt Anastasia. So we can sell another three T shirts. Yeah, but the but there's a famous recipe. His name just went out of my head but he was the might still be for all I know the head chef for Valrhona chocolate famous guy. I don't know why I can't remember his name. And one of his like kind of famous recipes is a mayonnaise made with cocoa butter with like chocolate and cocoa butter. And he has to keep that mayonnaise kind of at the right temperature because once the cocoa butter solidifies, the man is breaks. And so it's like keeping it warm, but it's a warm Manet's. And so you know, butter takes longer to solidify then then then cocoa butter does, but you're probably going to want to keep it in the range where the butter is going to be fluid because mayonnaise is built around a fluid oil, obviously, but not so hot that you curl the egg yolk, you know what I'm saying?

Right? Especially because some of the fat in there too is the rendered beef tallow,

right, right, right. And so and that's that stuff gets waxy real quick. So in fact, by the way, this is one of the reasons that I really like to cook so low temperature meats in general. Steaks specifically, I often like to finish with liquid oil, like olive oil one because I find it delicious, like a finishing oil. Like you know Italian style styles. You like that right? Like, like a steak with olive oil on top. But also because just adding a little bit of liquid fat on top of the steak helps prevent that Waxiness that can happen if you let pure steak on steak action, like sit around too long and congeal and nobody likes me I don't know maybe somebody likes that waxy I guess on a roast beef sandwich that wacky waxy textures what you're looking for. But no not Yeah, but no, but you know what I'm saying? You don't talk about that wax. You know, I'm talking about that waxy that wax. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean something that I like when I you know, cook potatoes. There's nothing in tallow but but yeah, obviously one mistake,

and I don't want to save. So I want you to try that. Hopefully sometime. You'll try that and then like, I'd like you to let us know whether or not it worked. And then we can futz around with it more. It's difficult. I mean, you can stick in the water base of the of, of this stuff, right? And then if you emulsify it, the entire thing will be thicker, but it ain't gonna be Manet's. You know what I mean, to me, man is is like, you know, a minor miracle like I love men as it came to my attention a couple of years ago. There's some people that don't like mayonnaise, and I just don't understand that. Like, like, you know, I just don't get it because mayonnaise is like such, you know, a miracle kind of a product. But anyway, let it let us know how your madness has worked. Oh, the main fat thickeners that people use to thick and fat. I don't happen to like them because the ones at least that I've used require a lot of a lot to take thicken this stuff up properly. And even GMs Oh, wait, wait, you're back. Alex?

I am I kept getting dumped out because the GMs use a small amount to thicken the fat out for

sure. Yeah. Is that available? Modernist? pantry.com I'm thinking it's gotta be Yeah. Well, what's what percentage do you use?

It was it.

I think it was like 1% If not less, really. We're able to. Yeah, you can make special mayonnaise, vegetable. Oil. Anything?

Yeah. So try that out. Because I ya know, I never I never would have played around with that. Like, you know, back when I last time I worried about this was literally 10 years ago. And, you know, and all we had then was like mono and diglycerides. And that stuff is nasty to us as a thickener. I mean, it's awesome stuff. But it's nasty to use as a say thickener because you're using like five 6% of mono and diglycerides to thicken your stuff up. Mean, Aleksey, am I wrong about that? Have you had any good luck with that stuff? No, right?

No, I, I mean, Jimmy the GMS is worked out really? Well. I got it again. As you said. It was about five, seven years ago we were we were really working with it as a thickener, mono and diglycerides. I haven't used in forever since. And so as a true thickener, but it'll it'll Eric and Morrison the

multiplier. Yeah, no, it's great for that. But like I remember back in the day, when everyone was trying to figure out what to do with this stuff when it first became, you know, available. You know, people were doping it directly into oil at huge rates to actually thicken the oil. But not only is it nasty at those levels, but like the texture is wildly temperature dependent. And so you know, you'd have it would go waxy, super quick as it cooled off. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so any of those things could try so traditional mayonnaise, or you know, whatever, you know, what else is talking about? And what percentage what percentage do you say to add?

I'm trying to go back to my notes. And if you give me 30 seconds on the, on this new thing called the internet, I can look on our website. I certainly have it from years years ago.

But let's see. You see, well, well, Alex and certainly So hopefully, this is helpful. And you will have great success either using a traditional technique or a modern technique and then let us know how. Let us know how it works out. Yeah, well,

and in the meantime, you guys should come up Montana. You got you got fans out here.

Really? You know, I've never been to Montana, but I hear it's like intensely beautiful out there. What do you say is 1% 1%? Yeah, yeah. So like, melts right into it? Yeah. So right into the fact that cool. So theoretically, I love Montana, but I've never been stopped. You ever gonna

like it? It's gorgeous. Yeah. Stunning.

Where were you guys used to be? You guys used to be in Colorado. Right, Alex? We were we were

in Colorado for four years. And then we actually spent the season out in White Sulphur Springs running a private ranch out there as well.

Where's that? Hey, no kidding. Is that in Montana? Montana. Yep. Are there in fact, White Sulphur Springs? They're

white copper spring, you know, I don't know. I was we were stuck on the property. So yeah. That I'm not sure we. We went from the property to Bozeman every once a while for ingredients.

Nice. Yes. And I'll go sometime. Sometime. I'll get to go. Anyway, let us know. Let us know how it works. I tell you to get both. Alright. Thanks, Dave. You

want to read the thing real quick. And then we can take another call or Alex. So

Alex, you stand you stand with us? Yeah, I

gotcha. Okay, cool.

I'm going to read a little gotta do a little bit nas do a little bidness Today's program is brought to you by modernist pantry providing magical ingredients for the modern cook for free videos, recipes, tips and tricks. Visit blog dot modernist pantry.com. All right.

Well, it meant the longer one.

I'll read the I'll read the long one on on the outro Oh, hell read the long one. Okay, minutes. Okay. Okay, business people. This is what's known in the trade. Although trade implies that we're being paid for this. That's true, which is just not the case. But anyway, this is called the mid roll ad. Modernist pantry was created by food lovers and cooking issues fans just like you Jamie Chris and the modernist pantry family, share your passion for experimentation and have everything you need to make culinary magic happen in your own kitchen. professional chef home cooked food enthusiast no matter what your skill or experience modernist pantry has something for you. They make it easy to get the ingredients into tools you need and can't find anywhere else so that you can spend less time hunting and gathering and more time creating memorable dishes and culinary experiences. Visit monitors pantry.com today to discover why cooking issues listeners call modernist pantry the cook secret weapon Be sure to check out their new kitchen alchemy blog at blog dot modernist pantry.com for free recipes, tips and tricks and don't forget to follow modernist pantry on social media to keep up with what is new and exciting in the world of culinary ingredients and tools. Oh my God, my mouth is so full of spit from not stopping in the middle of that. All right, well done. Okay, we have a caller caller you're on the air. What do you got for us?

My friend and I are working on a mojito pavlova. Okay, and you're like buying lime curd, and then infuse the moraine with the man. What's probably the best way of going about the brain fart.

Alex, you've done a lot of work with Merengues or no?

Yeah. I make I make I make midwater Hmm,

well, how much use powdered egg whites, huh? You hear in that color? powdered egg whites. Okay, yeah, here's the trick with powdered egg whites pattern egg whites come in various different qualities. So like way back in the day I'm talking like in the 90s I haven't researched it recently. Like a lot of Chinese a lot of egg white dried egg white came out of China and it had like very particular properties as opposed to other ones I forget it was really liked for certain things and not for others. But the recently the powdered egg whites that I've seen are all relatively neutral relatively clean. The issue with the powdered egg white is you want to allow proper time for hydration. Am I wrong about this Alex or No, I

again, it's still it's still want to be properly hydrated. But when we were when we were flavoring things for sure it was it was using again powdered egg whites, we could use a flavored liquid and intensely flavored liquid. So if you're trying to make like you know, the mint pavlova, I'd be using, again a concentrated mint tea or liquid. And then and then the powdered egg whites and to make the make it happen.

And by the way, go with a mint tea. It's like buying commercial mint tea is the easiest way to get a relatively stable liquid mint flavor and then dope it with mint oil actually attempting to get because mint oil is real. And mint tea is real. Trying to take mint from the garden and getting a stable kind of mint flavor I find to be exceedingly difficult. Have you ever had any like perfect luck with that Alex or No, I think it's really hard.