Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

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We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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Hello, and welcome to cookie issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cookies coming to you on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12:45am Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. joined as usual witness Tassia of the hammer Lopez how're you doing? Stars good yeah, you have a good week. Yeah, we also have some we have we don't have a David booth today we got Vitor in the booth. How you doing, man? Doing? Well do we have special guest MC Huang, formerly employed currently unemployed cooks so if you have any unemployed questions, call that too. Or if you need a cook or if you need to cook like a private home chat. Where are you moving to Milpitas? Where are you moving to?

Um, no, I'm moving to nowhere right now. I'm just hanging out in New York for a little bit.

Oh, cool. He's willing to move to not but temporarily you pay for his lodging. Why

is it gonna be Milpitas because of the Milpitas? Well,

I always Milpitas Booker hates Oh, speaking of special special guests it is it is international take your kid to work life is it that's what my dad's got my whole life right now. So we have Booker Arnold, you might know him from such things as having a bar named after him back in the day. Booker, how you doing?

Um, um, not much is going on but now that I don't have school anymore. It's real. I I consider that a bonus and I and now I know I do no work at all. Yeah, and I see I see work is not my thing. It's not your jam work. Academics. Goodbye.

So listen, Booker, you were the real Isn't that the family went vegetarian recently? So what's good terian? Okay, pescatarian DAX is now what he calls a flexitarian. So what?

Yeah, but Dad refuses because he still loves meat products.

dad hates me.

Yes he does even though you guys don't eat me. Yeah, even though my brother is not supposed to have me ice when we went up, we went up to my aunt's house in Connecticut. We there was there was bacon at the brunch and even though even though it looks so delicious, I still reminding myself Booker. You know, you you don't like it what how animals are killed for the for the meat. So you are not going to get your food from animals who were killed. And then DAX took a slice and then when no one was looking he went except me. He ran into the bathroom closed. Well, yeah, close the door, but there's a tiny crack on, like, around around the door corners inside. So I watched I watched him eat the bacon and I'm like mommy DAX was eating the bacon even though he's not supposed to say his

choice if he wants to eat the bacon needs to bake and if he doesn't want it the best

example if he says I'm still a vegetarian.

He said he was and then not cool. And then

so if you have any recently vegetarian questions or any being a picky teenager questions, you can find those super picky. Yes, you are.

I'm so pick either. My mom doesn't let me get anything not even ice cream because it's summer.

Oh, well, because you only eat complex carbohydrates. Yeah, it's all you eat like crackers.

Like, is cheese a carbohydrate?

No, she wasn't a carbohydrate, but you don't need that much juice.

What about fruits are not carbohydrates? Are they sugar fruit? Basically

just a pile of sugar held together with some pectin?

What about apples?

Apples are basically a bunch of sugar and water held together with some pectin and hemicellulose couple couple nutrients

are well known for for reducing the risks of many kinds of cancer. Okay,

I'm glad you said that. But that's a lie. That's what we like to refer to as a lie. An apple an apple. You know what an apple you know, an apple a day sells an extra apple a day from the apple industry is what an apple a day does. I'm all for eating an apple a day because I think apples are delicious. But don't eat apples for any freakin health reason. I mean, Nick, where are you if you're with me on this, right?

It's it's an extra way to get an apple into your diet. So yeah,

for apples. Apples are good. Apples tastes good. But I nope. Look, let me ask you a question Booker. Do you think that Apple farmers don't go to the doctor? Or is it more than one apple a day then the doctor comes really quickly it's like a like a bell curve like one apple a day? No doctor? Zero apples a day. Doctor? Too many apples. Doctor? One but then what size? Are we talking about? Too much of anything is bad. That's correct. Oh, my I've never heard Booker bust out the moderation. Hey, speaking

of too much of anything is bad. I used an excuse. In my old school too much homework is bad. In third grade. I got tons of homework.

That was also three years ago, Booker. So

no, it was six years ago Right? Well,

the why you still remember he says what I'm talking about people when you have kids with long memories that they never remember the nice things you do for him. It's only the punishment Booker can remember punishments from like 10 years ago.

I remember in kindergarten getting getting getting sent to the naughty corner for calling the teacher obnoxious

as well. I'm sure she was anyway. Okay, now Booker, we got it. We got to do some cooking stuff. Okay. I was only six. All right, cooking. Right from here on out. We're talking cooking. Okay. Okay. All right. So we had a bunch of questions we didn't get to last week. So let's restart for once in our life with stuff from from Booker. Don't rub the microphone cover. We can all hear that. That's the guitar. The Stasi told me to I didn't I bet you she did you know what Booker was like? On the floor? And I bet you know what you know it Booker. I want to hear for everyone out there. This is exactly what Anastasia the hammer. Lopez is like hand a guitar pick to my son and make him do something in the hopes that I lose my mind on my son on air. So that she can make me look like a bad dad. And she's laughing because it's true. This is what Anastasia the hammer Lopez that Nick?

I read those words right.

All right. So we got some stories for later like in case we run out of time. I got to tell the story about Watson in the elevator. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I thought it was no no, but I will say this. Over the past week. There's been some food news. A blogger a blogger in a fitness blogger in Spain was killed with her cream whimper Yikes, yeah. And it was, I mean, seriously, she had like a like a, like a lot a lot of followers, but she was using a cream Whipper I forget the brand she was using. But it wasn't it wasn't the, you know, EC, which is the brand I use. So like I went on, I went on the Twitter, and I was like, Look only by the easy ones. And the reason I say that is because there are probably other manufacturers that goes through the same safety like checks that EC goes through, I just know that I visited their factory in Austria, I saw them build them, I saw how they control the steel I saw how they you know how they do their hydro testing, I saw like all the safety, like multiple safety things they have like the like the blowout, the blowout threads, etc, etc. And like all the testing you do, and I'm like, okay, these guys, in fact, EC would not let me they would not publish recipes of mine that contained chargers that were safe in their units specifically because they were worried someone would try it in somebody else's unit that didn't have the safeties and blow themselves up. And so I don't know what this I don't know what she was making this this blogger when she when she was killed, but she was killed with a apparently officer there was a recall on the energy head, but it's just, you know, especially as manufacturers and Stassi. We think about safety all the time. It's horrifying. Anytime you have a product that you do they buy a lot of insurance, right? Well, it's not just white buy a lot of insurance when you have to buy that anyway, because stuffs eventually going to always happen no matter what but you know, someone will someone will stab themselves with a butter knife if you give them a chance because because people are what Nick? Idiots. There you go. But the Hey, was

what are you calling idiots? I'm a person.

Well. There you go. Yeah, we have we have one question from a caller. All right, caller you're on the air. Hey, hi,

Georgia. The question is my girlfriend is lactose intolerant, right? Usually she takes the Lactaid pills before meals to help with it. But I also found you have like the lactose free milk where they add the lactic lactase enzyme to like deactivate the lactose, right? When I can't find information on like, how much to use or how much time you gotta wait or even apply for it.

Of this enzyme. That's really interesting issue. So because there's not that much lactose, and it's not going to change the taste that much to break down the lactose, right? So no, you say you have not found a source for the enzyme. Or you have

if I search Amazon like a fine song, but I was wondering if there's like any differences between like friends,

there always is. And so like, any enzyme, so there, for instance, when someone says like I'm most familiar with the enzymes, I use like pectin X to break down pectin. So like there are like pectin. Next is actually a whole bunch of different enzymes, of which some are pectinase is and some are Hemi cellulase is and like there's a bunch of it's not just like one enzyme, it's a bunch of different enzymes. And even when you have a singular enzyme, which lactase may or may not be at probably is I don't know. But even when you have one singular enzyme, what they do is they rate based on the activity of it I haven't looked at in a long time. But for instance, when you buy usually what you do when you buy an enzyme preparation is they're standardized to a certain level of activity. That's how, like meat glue is sold, for instance, transplant m&a, so what they do is is that's only one enzyme, but they standardize it to a certain level of activity so that you can dose it out all the same time. So presumably, like if you find one brand and stick to it, I've never bought any I wonder whether monitors pantry guys can can carry or have carried any of that. But it's it's a, it's interesting. I also wonder whether they add the lactase before pasteurization to the milk or whether you still have active enzymes in that milk. Be an interesting question. I don't know. If the if they add the enzyme after the pasteurization step, then odds are you still have good enzyme in that milk and I don't know whether there's enough residual enzymatic activity to like buss down more milk or not, you know what I mean? It wouldn't necessarily want to run a test on your on your girlfriend's GI tract to find out but that's interesting question I'll try to look into it Do me a favor tweet me back next week I'm actually I won't be here I'll be in Ireland so like it like if you remember like the week after like to drop plus the radio station is closed for the fourth but the just drop me a line. I'll try to check out on Twitter on cooking issues on Twitter and I'll try to find a supplier that stuff or maybe someone in the chat room has a supplier

All right. Well do. Thank you.

Thank you. Alright, so yeah, so we have the EC whip and the other one that came in is that is that now people are anti coconut oil again. It's so crazy, man. Yeah. That's great. I love it. You know what? Like, the thing is, I've gone through so many of these cycles in my life. Butter is terrible. You need to eat only margarine, and then they're like, margarine is terrible. You need to eat only butter. And then like what? Like when you see enough things change, like back and forth, not just change, but go from being the bad guy to the good guy to the bad guy to the good guy. It's like just ignore if you want to use coconut oil because you want a solid fat, then use coconut oil because you want a solid fat that's a vegetable fat. Right? Right, Nick kwansei Right. Yeah, yeah. What do you want

Booker? Margarine tastes like cardboard.

Yes. You know why? Margarine when margarine goes rancid? Which often it does margarine. rancid oils tastes literally like cardboard. And Booker used to make fun of me because he used to always throw margarine in my shopping cart. Just if just to mess with me. She knows I hate it. He knows it tastes terrible. And he would always buy this one specific brand happy boy. Yeah,

the boy is happy because he's cheating you.

Because he's selling you something that tastes terrible and you're paying money for it. Happy boy. Yeah,

the boys happy because he's like, Oh, I cheated. I cheated a lot of people with my disgusting margarine.

Well, at least you know people have trained him somewhat well. Anyways, so here's our first question in this is Judy from Malden. Is there really a bad time to drink a gin and tonic, I used to drink them all the time before I started drinking darker, more bitter things. However, if there's no craft cocktails in sight, or kitschy stuff, like blue eyes around, it's my go to. So I don't order them that often anymore. But tell me if I'm being a jerk. I mean, I think back in the day, it was considered like, okay, look at back in the day, like a very particular sort of like, like, hyper? Like, I don't know, like, Yacht Club, kind of a person would be like, sluggish. So goosh. So, gosh, you know what, these days drink what you want when you want? You know what I mean? What do you think, Nick?

I'm having a gin and tonic right now.

Yeah. What? What do you think about old norms, though, in general, things like that. I mean, depends on what they're based on. In reality, like those kinds of norms, I think are based on this old like, pretty, like white male English society crap. And pretty much that whole society like, if it got knocked down 30 or 40, or 50, or all pegs, it wouldn't be a problem. No offense, you know what I mean? But it's like, so I don't think it's a problem to go against that norm. And what do you think stuff? Oh, what about

like how the Italians have their apparent TV and their D just TV like that stuff

can't really be messed with tenant. Okay, so here's what I think about that. I think that those the Italian, that culture is hilarious, because they literally, if you had a gin and tonic when they were having their I think we've had this discussion, but if you had a gin and tonic while they were having their TV, if you had that, right, they would be like you're an alcoholic, I'm not even drinking. You know what I mean? Because it's so culturally ingrained that they don't even consider that like to be drinking, they're doing what you do before the meal. And so like those cultures, I think, like, I see like a pretty bright line difference between like a just like a culture where you're like you go through specific rituals, versus a culture where it's so it doesn't seem to me that that culture is a way to distance yourself from somebody else. It's not like we all wear white after a certain, you know, after a certain day in the summer, but before a certain day, so that we can prove that we are a certain group of people, I don't see that that the Aperitivo culture is like that, versus the, you know, the gin and tonic kind of thing, I think is more just like a show whether or not you were part of a certain class or not. And I think all of those cultures pretty much I mean, I don't care about them. You know what I mean? If you hear snickering in the background, that's my son Booker, who cannot help himself. And we have one more caller. I call her on the air.

Dan Seattle, Hey, I am trying to copy Panda Express is beast stir fry, as closely as humanly possible for the simple reason that's like the only protein my younger kid will eat.

Well, I have not had it both. So what's the what's the problem? First of all, like almost all of the stuff. So I learned a lot about Chinese American restaurant cuisine of which Panda Express is a very kind of streamlined and often let's be frank over sugared version of right. But I mean, I don't know this particular recipe, but like the recipes, most of the recipes, the mother sauce quotes, quotes is like cornstarch and water like and then two that is added flavor. So it's like it's almost the opposite. The state of everything else, you start with a liaison and then you move into into the flavor basis, but what's it what's it like? What's in it?

Okay, so the whole issue I'm having is I mean, I've got the sauce. I've got the broccoli I've got this I'm having a very hard time getting the texture of the beef right? What is it like I know the basic Chinese restaurant process is that they're putting it is that they're marinating it in soy sauce and something they're putting it in egg white for some period of time watching it in oil and then stir frying it

depends so so like velvet velvet and can work there

may be doing three quarters of that in the factory somewhere and freezing it

right. Right But yeah, the Velveteen can sometimes be egg whites sometimes cornstarch so like you know like if the Velveteen thing I think really is like to add like a protective layer some people also add basic things to it like some like bake like baking soda stuff I don't I don't know Is there anyone Nicky ever experiment with this stuff? Number two, the building didn't didn't change on a building tirade once. Make all you guys learn building. No. I've never had the Panda Express. Which is the meat not squashy enough. Are you looking for like kind of squashy yet overcooked meat? Is that what they have?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's certainly overcooked by modern standards, but it's, but it's not. It's not to overcook, if you know what I'm saying. Right. So I mean, you know, if you accept it as what it is, it's as opposed to what you'd like it to be. I mean, it's something that actually works, right? I mean, I mean, I've taken 15 tries with this with different amounts of air quotes and trying to beat it. And either in the quiet or trying to sue me to drain it in the superheated.

Yeah, I mean, like, the thing is, they don't do that. So if you want to imitate and imitate what they do, so listen, when I'm going for like really mushy meat. So like, like good, good meat. It's kind of mushy. And overcook is like Tandoor style overcooked mushy meat. And the way you do that, is with acidic marinade, because the acidic stuff turns the meat mushy. And you don't notice the machinists when you got thin strips, because it's not enough meat for you to notice. It's mushy, and then when you overcook the outside, it still holds together. Okay, so that's how you work like, that's how you work like an overcooked piece of chicken in a tandoor and still have it taste good. The but I don't think that they're doing an acidic marinade for in the maybe ginger will also do that to meats but I don't think that they're doing that they're, they're probably just doing some form of like quick velvet in like a boil to get the coating on which I would bet is like another corn starchy thing on velvet and to get that locked out layer on the outside. And then the stir fry, stir fry afterwards, but I'll look into it. I'll look into it, do we? Vitor? Do we have anyone in the chat room that's live on validating techniques and mimicking and mimicking Panda Express also boatloads of sugar cams messing with you, but not really, I ordered something there once because I was like, I'll try this because we were doing the Chinese restaurant thing. And I was like, literally, I was like, This tastes like dessert. Like is is sweet is the beef dish that they make super sweet.

Like, like, they kind of like Beijing beef, but it's orange beef. I mean, you know, some of their stuff has way too much sugar on it. But in terms of trying to copy it at home in a way that's not quite so sugary, and be something that my kids will eat. I mean, like I said, I've got something that works for every other stage of this except the texture of the

beef, does the beef ham coating on it?

And I've made 15 or 20 Semi scientific tries.

All right, well, I'll do I'll do a little more poking around, I'm sure. And have you like, Googled like Panda Express clones? Has anyone tried to clone the recipe because a lot of times like you can get pretty close with like an online recipe clone like Twinkies have good recipe clones.

None of the recipe clown seem to be even trying to get their texture what I mean? I mean, there's 25 recipes out there to copy their sauce, all of which more or less work. But nobody's getting the texture that I can tell.

Right? Well I guarantee these well, maybe they are in large batch they could probably do Suvi for pasteurization reasons but they're not doing it for a texture reason. You know what I mean? Is there a coating on it or no?

I'm morally certain it's about what it was something

Yeah, probably cornstarch. Right when you think just cornstarch Yeah, I'll look into it though. I'll look into texture of panics breasts really

freezing. If it is they're doing larger batches and freezing the meat. Can that also affect the texture? Yeah,

velvet and free And then thaw you'll get drip loss. True. It's true obviously the cut is going to matter to like you almost might want to like get like a like a cut. The thing is is like is it shredded? Are they stay nice pieces?

No, no, it's their impact their impact intact pieces. I mean, their raw slice is probably a quarter inch thick it comes out a little less than that. I mean, but by the time they cooked it I mean it's, it's clearly pretty clearly sliced on the bias quarter inch thick

and it looks like me it doesn't look like pressure cooker or anything. It looks like meat.

It looks like meat. I mean it looks like you know it looks like a very classic Chinese restaurant stir fried beef you know what

else you could just jack card the hell out of it. That's another thing just get like a jack Hart and Jack are that ever loving hell out of it and then and then like do a quick velvet and stir fry and that'll pulverize the snot out of it so then you could use a you know a cut that's got some more structure to it and then just maybe they get carded. You know what I mean?

Yeah, the thing with the ad little mais I actually own one

Yeah, sent me try. I would try like getting tech piece Jack carting it to death slices, velvet and then stir fry maybe in conjunction with like a little like, you could try and acidic marinade that'll soften it. Like I say, That's how tandoors work. I don't happen to like that texture. But you know, it is a texture here and I'm saying,

yeah. The combination, the classic Pandora combination produces something that's like, generally acceptable, even if it's not ideal. Yeah,

yeah. So those guys, I mean, I know much more about how to do Tandoor stuff and in tandoori stuff the marinade are some combination of yogurt, perhaps citrus oil in the marinade often ginger and then whatever your spice base is, but like you know, all of those things together so even if I'm doing a non Indian flavored stuff, I always make sure to have some citrus acid oil yogurt and then sometimes ginger so I always like no matter what ginger I only add if usually if I'm doing some form of Asian because like you know in a Euro flavours a lot of times ginger can be weird and in a savory dish, but and a little bit of sugar. Actually a little bit of sugar and salt. In the in the tandoori thing. Typically, though, when I'm doing marination I don't know why I do this because I'm stupid Nick, maybe. But like, what I'll do is I'll salt the meat like a normal thing like a narc like I'm assaulting it. And then I won't add salt to the marinade. And then I'll unless I'm making a lot of marijuana because I'm usually using small amounts of marinated a vacuum bag. And I think it's easier to get salt on the meat than it is to get salt in the marinade. But I could just be that I'm a moron. I don't know. I don't know what anyway, so let's give it give those things a shot. And also I'll look into it and see you next time we come back in a couple of weeks. I'll see if I have any more information on

Thank you very much already.

Okay, and then when we got here we got this is Dave Anastasia at all from Karen. I recently bought a pasture raised pasture raised pig and opted into keeping all the scraps in addition to the meat. As part of this I was wondering if it's possible to approximate tonkatsu broth with just bones and skin. What do you think make you've probably made a boat ton of tonkatsu broth over there didn't they didn't used to do that sound you never made? What do you just bought it from noodle

boss a different restaurant?

You didn't never serve the ramen basting ever? You though you never had one freaking soup at sambar not one.

That would be that'd be the Noodle Bar.

And you never did. You never stopped over there even for a day and a half.

That's the noodle or

you know what? You know who you are? Why am I a bad person? Remember this? Don't remember what Nick? I know where Nick worked. I just find it absurd that that that sambar that they didn't even once is no mod situation make a ramen broth? Like ever? Like never came up there? Like this is not a skill we need to have. Like it's like you know what I mean?

There's a noodle bar just down the block. There's no no need to compete. We have other noodles and other broths but not what kind of brothy make. There's no none right now but

alright, so you won't even admit to like making a brothel alright. You enjoy just throwing like like massive amounts of pork into your combi oven. It's all you like to do is throw massive amounts of pork into your combi oven. How much pork did you guys cook in that combi oven every day? What was the only way you're doing bosoms? No, you had it for the for the funds. Yeah. How much force do you think those who have combi oven? You have the full person size combi oven right you could put a cook in your eye I've given I could

put a couple of cooks in there. Yeah. Probably like, under 20 280 pounds of pork belly every week.

Oh, it's not as much as I thought. Yeah. Anyway, if it's possible to approximate tonkatsu broth with just bones and skin, in my head, I feel like the bones will provide a good amount of flavor while the skin could provide body. But that's all theoretical at this point. Additionally, a while back, you mentioned that there's good Porky and bad Porky with regards to skin. Nick, were you there? And we were making the cheekbones at the French culinary link so yeah, do you remember how nasty that smelled when you're boiling the skins? Beaver ones the beaver ones at least smelled like beaver they were okay they had that woodsy smell to them. You know what I mean? But like the just smelled funk? Yes. Like that, like pork skin.

I don't mind it that much. But it's very potent.

Let me ask you this when you're having your shift drink after work. Would you want the beers that came up to your lips to smell like the like the pork skin pot? No, no, you would not. Yeah, and like in order to you can tolerate it when it's in the kitchen but it's not a smell you want hanging around like salmon skin, like salmon skin and like scamp salmon bones. Like it's okay when you're butchering them when you're eating them, but you don't want that on your hands all the time be no Anyway good pork and bad pork with regards to skin so do you think this would contribute adversely to flavor and then lastly would a pressure cooker be a good option for making this broth the this adaption which is on the web so you can't see it because you're listening to a podcast of J Kenji Lopez all tonkatsu broth recipes is less a thing which I know you're not a huge fan of to help emulsify the finished product so I might give that a try. Finally, there's lots of skin in this delivery pounds and pounds of it any suggestion on how else to use it 20 pounds of pork rinds doesn't sound like a reasonable option there you are wrong. This is where you have made your largest error 20 pounds of because you gotta remember you're thinking of 20 pounds of the skin as being that's like the weight of the teacher own but you're going to get rid of a lot of like weight out of that you're going to render out a lot of the fat and all that say like the actual weight of the of the finished Ryan's are going to be a lot lower and and they last a lot are on time in pre fried zone. Time. Yeah, that's Booker with his echo. They last a long time and pre fry mode so you can do them and then you know LA hyung time Yes, yes. So anyways, so that's not too much any suggestions how else to use it? I might try my hand it could to Keno but any suggestions are welcome. So pigskin so like some classic pigskin dishes are like pigskin you ready for the for the jersey pronunciation? Rational brush Raj. Oh, Bradshaw. Yeah, like so now. So now all that. So now all of the all of the people make their Breschel with meat. But like originally, I think it would like skin and like you roll it up and you cook it in the broth. Good. Right? Good. Although my son my stepfather used to make something with Skinner hasslein made this game called I don't even know what it is he because he has an even weirder, it's his English speaking pronunciation of his like, maiden aunts like crazy American but like one generation removed like Southern Italian right? So who knows what it actually is? God the God God the guy God the guy that he was like, that's also like a rolled up skin thing. God the guy do you speak of times that make any sense at all? And as some sort of Boston person? Yeah, codec quinoa is good. Here's what I'm gonna say I would make a whole bunch of pork rinds. But as for the broth. I mean, look, we bought really bad pork skin. It was like the pork skin that had been ripped off of like the 12 quality pigs and then like thrown into a case and frozen. And then like, you know, it was always like, you know, how you ever been around a professional meat delivery area where like, the guy throws the meat on the ground outside and it's throwing into the disgusting New York City Sidewalks and then they stack other stuff on top of it. And they always put the low item crappy stuff like the cheap stuff, if they're smart like on the bottom, and that's where everything's dripping into it. That's where the pork skin goes in the delivery on the hand truck you know, I'm talking about Nick was the bit of the bottom of the totem pole there the bottom of that of that that totem pole of nastiness now, when you're boiling those skins they're completely they're completely nasty. Completely nasty. They smell nasty. Now maybe that nastiness will go away but often. I am not a huge fan of completely. Maybe you could skim the hell out of it or Blanchett wants to get rid of that initial funk out blanch at once. Get rid of it and then and then put it in. I mean, Kenji is tonkatsu recipe is like has like a lot of scrubbing of the bones anyway to get rid of the blood and everything because like, unreal because he doesn't use roasted pork because he doesn't want it, he wants it to be blonde. He doesn't want it to be dark. So he uses unroasted pork, I find unroasted or uncooked pork like unless you do something to rinse away stuff or to blanch it out is matte has like a nasty top note on the on the broth. So you need to do some form of thing like that was to skin and then maybe it was going to work out I don't think it's going to add a lot of flavor. I think it's going to add a lot of gelatin a lot of people just add gelatin like so like a lot of people if there's not enough body in their broth. You know, like the purists are like, me, me, me, me, me, but they just throw gelatin in and like you know, as far as you know, that's then the end consumer is not going to know the difference now on the pressure cooker and the lecithin the idea of the tonkatsu broth is it's exactly opposite of what you attempt to do in European style broth is you're trying to emulsify all the stuff that's coming out into it. And so for that, typically you need a rolling boil, which is why Kenji says the pressure cooker doesn't work. So this other person that you talked about use his recipe but then pulled it out and then blitzed it with lecithin to emulsify it, it may or may not work, it may or may not taste the same. I don't know a lot of times when things are done in process, they taste differently from if you do it one way and then just try to blend this stuff together at the end. So it might be different. But here's a test that no one's run, because pricing pressure cooker stocks taste can taste better, right? It can taste worse can save better. I've written many 1000s of words on this on the on the Cooking issues blog years ago, and I haven't done any new experiments. So if I said anything now it's it's basically just my distant memory of doing the test two years ago. So I'm not even gonna try to like comment on that. But here's what's not tested. Inside of a pressure cooker there is very little boiling. Why because it's already a pressure and it's sealed. So once it comes up to a boil and pressurizes your container, it's no longer going to boil. But if you were to sit there and press the button while you were cooking, so that in I know venting is bad for the in general long term venting is bad for the aroma and flavor of the stock according to my old test, but it might be interesting on a 10 katsu broth, she just walked up every like three minutes, let's say and go and have it like just boil like a lunatic because it boils so violently when you hit that button because all of a sudden, you're going from it being like at the boiling point to being like wildly hotter than the boiling points, you'll get super violent bubbling with no chance of scorching. So it's pretty cool. So like, like I would say I would run a quick tonkatsu test in a pressure cooker with occasional venting to emulsify it and see whether or not you can get a decent result. That way do you think do you think that's it's worth a shot right now?

If you want to keep going and pushing the vent every three minutes if you have that much time on your hands?

Well presumably you're still cooking other stuff. Presumably you're still cooking so it's just

maybe this isn't like a restaurant kitchen is like a home kitchen.

Yeah, but like when was the last time when I'm pressured? Do

you have that much time to just every 30 minutes just go and push this thing?

Well like okay so when I'm usually if I'm pressure cooking stock, it means I've broken down whatever meat I'm going to use and then I'm working on other stuff I'm working on other prep and so you get that stock going because you know you're eventually going to have to cool it strain it adjust it do all that so the stock gets done early. So I'm there's usually prep work to do while it's on the stove and like so like if you sit there, you're like check Attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack attack, go with your carrots, although you have doesn't care isn't a stalker? You're a bad person. You walk over and go go back teka teka teka teka teka teka

now there's the sounds of the kitchen for those of you that didn't know check

check check are you guys what are you guys totally anal about the dead no noise with the knife Are you guys noisy knife people or do you not care do you not get I don't really care you don't care? You're not like you're not like you're hitting the board to her with your knife your tool? Or you know like

it sounds like it's wrong than obviously I'm gonna go correct that but do you like those you know those people

those weirdos who sit there and like slice and silence It's takes takes too long to slice and silence take depends on where you're working to put the exact amount of force into your knife such that it makes no noise when it when goes through your object. A waste of my life now what do you think?

It depends on where you work and how loud Are you? I think I'm average I've never really thought about it.

I mean we all hate the the check check check check check we hate that person. You make fun of them make them stand in the corner with like a towel around their head

that's not really my gym.

How do you How did you work there so long that that's not your jam. Nick was the Nick was that was your title over there back when you were there shifted cuisine chef de cuisine at sambar famously rough kitchen famously rough kitchen so calling we're gonna take a break call back with your ex famously runs rough kitchen people. We'll be back in a minute we're cooking issues.

pigskin spaghetti looked at

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Bob's Red Mill has been milling whole grains since 1978. When you mill whole grains, you get all three parts, the bran, the germ, and the endosperm. The Bran or the roughage makes up about 14% of the whole grain. It's the outer skin of the edible kernel. It contains large amounts of B vitamins, some protein, trace minerals, phytochemicals, but most importantly, dietary fiber. Learn more at Bob's Red mill.com/podcast. Hi, I'm

Sam, Ben Ruby, host of the great nation on heritage Radio Network. Tune in every Wednesday at 6pm. To hear some of the best people of wine tell you about what's going on in the world of wine. support my show in all of heritage radio network's programming, go to heritage radio network.org and click on the beating heart to donate.

And we're back so Nick is saying? pigskin spaghetti. So tell me about some Pizza and Spaghetti.

This is something that I saw when I worked for Chris Chris Cosentino

I'm sure he would be the pigskin spaghetti man. Yeah, but you're saying it's hard to pick up because it breaks once you've cooked the skin and gelatinous is difficult to deal with. So I'll say this um, I don't know how he does it. But like when you let it cool down all the way if you gelatinase your pigskin and then let it cool all the way it gets kind of tough again. I wonder whether he then you can slice it and handle it.

Yeah, it's after it's cool. It's cool to do like a pasta cutter

right and then you can probably return it and have it hold as long as you don't read through it all the way you know what I mean? As long as you don't melt 100% Melt it all the way you could probably read from it now. Or is it break like hell on the plate was it