Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's show is being brought to you by Bob's Red Mill believers in good food for all learn more at Bob's Red mill.com/podcast.

We asked our hosts what heritage radio network means to them. listen in to hear what they had to say.

Hi everybody, this is Carrie diamond host of radio cherrybomb and I'm here to tell you why I love heritage radio. It's all Dave tat ashore. 100% It's what keeps me coming back.

Every Thursday I pretend to pizza. I pretend it's the bomb squad. But it's Dave do your part to keep heritage Radio Network alive by supporting our summer drive at Heritage Radio network.org/donate.

Hello, and welcome to cookies this is Dave Arnold, your host of cookies coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 1245 on Roberto pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn joined as usual with Anastasia of the hammer Lopez how're you doing stars we got plenty of special guests we have again with me because this is you know this fifth or sixth month of take your Take Your Child to Work Life

I shouldn't be I shouldn't be. I shouldn't be having my independence back by December.

Yeah, so yeah, Booker Booker is here. One half of the team Booker and DAX we were sharing on my sharing on my you can share with Anastasia Anastasia Hey finger the mic she never used it. I

can put my headphones back on yelling done

yelling is done Booker. Oh, by the way well Booker's put his headphones on we got Dave in the booth. How you doing Dave? I'm good how you doing? I don't know. How was your How was your week was pretty uneventful. Any any cooking issues and or eating issues? No, no. There's a there's a new pizza here Roberta's so that's a good eating issue. I have what is it? It's called the Ursula parade. It's got clams on it. It's delicious. Oh, like like, like from Little Mermaid? Yeah, like the Mermaid Parade.

But I used to watch that all the time. Yeah, yeah. I think it's funny when Yeah, Ursula is too little poop sees.

Yeah, that does the moray eels. Share nickname for them. Were poops ease? Yes. Does it have octopus on it on account of the fact that she was a freaking octopus and not a clam? Well, you'd have to talk to me about that. I don't know. Yeah, you'll

turn back into a mermaid and you belong to me.

All right. You know, considering that Booker hasn't seen that show in like seven years. It's pretty good memory. You know, when I feel that like, don't you remember anyway, we've got more we're getting snow. I started on my 10th birthday once that was five years ago. All right, fine. All right behind we got more people introduced Booker. I saw when I was 12. Okay, in its entirety. Yes. on VHS, DVD or Netflix on the plane once on the plane. So who the heck knows what format? That was? You watched it on a plane. Yeah, that was what you chose to watch on a plane.

It was, it was one of the choices. All right, well,

good, you know, but so is she one of the Disney Princesses that you actually like?

Um, well, I kind of grew out of it.

Yeah, I didn't I don't I threaten you constantly with like buying frozen cereal and I hate frozen. And I believe I mentioned on airlines that the kids were stealing my toothbrushes. So

he got an Elsa toothbrush. So that one we're about to take a toothbrush. I'm like, Heck no, I'm not taking that baby as toothbrush. So it was a great strategy.

Because kids just don't care. They're like, Oh, this is a toothbrush. I'm being forced to brush my teeth. So I will take this toothbrush, which is horrible, horrifying. We have Nick Wong formerly of some bar. And in French culinary. How you doin? Hello.

start clapping noise.

That's a fake applause book REST calls to audience Dave. Yeah. Oh, well, we actually have a good studio audience here and we have in the booth. Tim, right. Yep. Okay, so Tim, a supporter of the Heritage Radio Network, wanting to tell us your story. Hear what you do where you're from? And is that your family? Why don't they come in? Bring a chair in? Oh, there'll be

they'll be around in a bit. Yeah, that's my family and my wife and my son Jack. Yeah, I'm from California. Then out there. went to University of Michigan and working at Apple now.

Oh, yeah. What do you do at University of Michigan?

Just Oh, you work for Apple? Can you get me a free iPhone eight.

I've never heard of that before. It's

it's coming out this fall.

Not according to people who actually work there. If you were to mention anything about a future product like a lightning bolt would come out of this Steve Jobs ghost would come back and drill a hole in his head instantly fall over like a SWAT team. Probably true. Yeah. And listen, we really don't want to get started with Apple discussions. Like for instance, like things that like, you know, for as much as I love all the Apple products, how much a few things could make my life so much better that they refuse to do because they prefer to run away? Make me work the way they want me to work instead of allowing me to work the way that I would like to work. Are you familiar with this argument from outsiders? Absolutely. But hey, great product look, look at look at the number of Apple products we have sitting around here right now. So you know, you won, we lost. That's my

mom. We're all jealous of my mom. She has an iPhone seven plus red.

Oh, yeah. Super, super jealous. So what do you do for the for Apple? What do you do for Big Apple? Their software? Engineering? Oh, sounds like you're like you're some sort of like a monster. You're some sort of it not in the bad way. Like good monster. Yeah. No, I

mean, been there 10 years. And we do all the operating systems for the different platforms and everything.

Yeah. All right. Well, at lunchtime, I will I will just go at it. When I say I can. Yeah, Lister grapes. Super. Alright, so what do we got? We got Nastasi. We got to call her on the air here. All right. So let me read the question first. And then then we'll bring in our experts on it. We've got some experts on it. And we'll see what's going on. None of you guys have had any sort of cooking and or eating issues in the past week. I feel that this is unusual. Maybe you just been boring. Eventually, Anastasia can talk about the comedy show that we went to last night. And Peter Kim, our favorite, our favorite whipping post. He you gotta whip. So this dasya who by the way, as any of you who know her in person No. is incredibly mean to people. Like incredibly does. If she doesn't know you, Nick back me up on this. No, that's right. Yeah, but dismissive. And hey, what do I say?

Don't interrupt.

Got Volker. So awesome. So the so anyway, so the point being that Anastasia is very dismissive of people. Right? And so what happened is, Peter, so this is a show that Anastasia is actually nicer than Peter Kim is in these situations. So the emcee for this event? I mean, admittedly, Anastasia, not not funny. Not funny. But Peter cam decides he didn't turn my left, so I'm not going to laugh, and doesn't even crack a smile. So the guy starts picking on him, and it just got worse for everyone and Staci, and I were like, dude, just crack a smile, and everyone's life is gonna be better. Like he'll be funnier. What Booker?

What I was gonna say is because of Yeah, because of my dad talking about how mean the staff says he said his ringtone to whenever Anastasia calls him, it's him saying you're mean to me?

Yeah, that is true. When the Stasi calls me It says You are mean to me. You are mean to me. And we get

the Can you try to copy it like the real voice like as if you're re recording

it? That isn't that that is me. I mean, I can have Anastasia saying is that what you want? You want to start? So you're saying what would what would your ringtone be Booker?

You know, Willy Wonka's you get nothing.

Yeah, no, but what would your ringtone for me? In other words, like when you call my phone, what should What should my phone say? I think I know what it should say. You know what? I think it should say what? Shut up dad. Well, I that's what I think it should say. Can you say that for people so they can understand?

Shut up, dad. See, that's. I only do it when you like, do things intentionally to annoy me. Like when he talks about poop or something? Because of that, I use crude language. I use crude bathroom.

Well, listen, listen, Booker. Very serious. Now. This is a family show. There's no cursing on this show. Okay. All right. Even if like a meteor comes out of the sky and stubbed your toe? I don't want to hear a curse out of you. Well, all right. All right. Now, let's get to this question so that we actually answer some questions on the show. By the way, Tim, we're going to you if you have any specific questions. What's your what do you like to cook? By the way?

I do all sorts of stuff.

I mean, like, namely, one of those stuffs.

I don't know put me on the spot.

Well, what do you hate to cook? What do you hate?

I would say I hate mushrooms. But

I like is it because they're poisonous?

generally stay away from those at my

grandma's house and Mr. Connecticut, there are tons of mushrooms growing

there, but they're not the kind you can eat. Or listen, we're gonna let him think about what he wants to talk about cooking wise, and we're gonna get to Jeff, Jeff's question on patenting. All right. Okay, so I'm not going to Jeff, I'm not going to read the specifics of what you want to patent because that would be stupid. So I'm not going to read that stuff aloud on the air. But I will say, in general, the question is, like, how do you patent something? How do you go about patenting something? Jeff did a preliminary search. I'll go say to this, it has to do with plumbing. All right. And it has to do with the fact that he had a specific problem. Have you guys ever like hired Nick, you've hired a plumber? Yeah, for random, right? Plumbers are fantastic, right? Because they make water appear and disappear. Yes, where you want it to appear and disappear. And this is a great thing. But the problem with any sort of professional person is, in general, what they want to do is do the job and get out. Right, which means that they don't want to do anything outside of what they normally do. Because I'll tell you this, it's for a good reason. Plumbing has this nasty tendency that if you do it wrong, it fails, like in maybe maybe a couple of days, maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months, maybe a year, maybe two years. So plumbers really, really, really like to use systems that are very well proven, because they know that if it breaks, you're gonna blame them. Because you are Yeah, you break it, you you pay for it. Well, they, they they install it wrong, it breaks, they have to come back and fix it basically at no extra charge. So so they like to do things a specific way. Now certain of these things are horrific. If any of you care about your children or the world stop every plumber from installing those crappy angle that have the angle stops that have the twist knobs. They should not be you guys know I'm talking about I don't think you've discussed this before. Yeah, but it's so important. No, no. So any any, any fixture any water fixture that you have, any water fixture you have in your house has a what's called a stop so that you can turn it off to either remove it or fix it. And the old school have this has a stem valve on it that has to be turned multiple times and you can feel it, it's springy. It's got that nasty, oval shaped head on it, right. And these valves are notorious for not working, they're worthless, you can't shut them off. So if you have an old one, you'll notice it as you screw it all the way down. Your faucets still dripping, right? Because those valves as like, water goes through them. And whatever happens to be in your water, calcium carbonate, some other form of garbage accretes on to the valve and then it can't close anymore. 100%. And so God invented a ball valve, a quarter turn ball valve to fix this problem. And they never break and they always use reach under and literally that's called a quarter turn. You know why it's called the quarter turn, Nick.

Do you turn it a quarter of the way? Yes.

Yes, you only turn it one quarter of the way. You know what else is fantastic about a quarter turn valve. The quarter turn valve handles are in a line shape. And the reason quarter turn valves are in a line shape is they provide an instant visual indication even in relatively dark areas, whether this sucker is on or off, right, because and by the way, so Have you know, anytime you see a valve with a handle on it for the rest of your lives, anytime you see any valve with a handle on it, if the handle is pointing in the direction of the pipe, that valve is on, anytime that handle is pointed perpendicular to the pipe, that valve is off. And if anyone in the world ever makes a valve that is not that worldwide standard of on and off, they need to be pilloried. Right? So, point being that even something as simple as moving to quarter turn valves, which are only like 50 cents more plumbers don't want to do it, there's because whatever, we've always installed these crappy things that are worthless, and so they do it. Now if you're trying to get someone to go way outside of what they do, they just don't want to do it. So Jeff has a plumbing solution he feels to something that is a problem that we all have that we don't know that we have yet that can possibly be patented. So that's where that's where we are. It is a it is there's no new creation of parts in this scenario. But there is a an agglomeration of parts in a new configuration that provides a functionality that he feels is not necessarily addressed. Now, we got Brian on the horn. Brian, you on the horn? I am here. All right. So in general. So one thing that I think and I want you to talk, here's where I want you to talk about whether or not you should do a patent search, right? Because that's an interesting fact that people might not know that sometimes it's it's not a good idea to do a patent search. Kind of like what in general, what can be patented, what can't be by the way, Brian's a patent attorney, and a food lover out there on the West Coast, just you know, just see, you know, and, and so like what can be patented? What can't be patented, like what the nuances and I'd like you to also talk because this is super interesting. You actually have dealings with the actual person who may or may not be a numbskull in DC who's reviewing the patents, the actual patent reviewer, so why don't you talk about like, how you could get lucky how you could not get lucky. Just want you walk us through it a little bit?

Sure. Sure. Yeah. So I'll start with like, what can be patented, generally anything that is new, new processes, new devices, new manufacturing products, all that's pretty much wide open. There's a couple of caveats, kind of exceptions, products of nature, things that are naturally occurring, or kind of too abstract, can be subject of patents. But you know, if this guy if just has a new kind of combination of parts that has a new functionality, that's definitely kind of in the realm of things that can be patented. Obviously, there's some requirements for patenting, you have to be new and basically non obvious. And that has a specific legal meaning. But that kind of gets into your searching there. Right? Has anyone done this before? Is this something that is non obvious? The question of whether you do your own patent search is kind of interesting, because as you as you mentioned, you go to the patent office, patent application is not something that is, you know, just put in and you get a check or an x, it's actually a kind of a process with the patent office, I guess what you really have to understand about patents is you're interesting, this massive bureaucracy with all these rules, and there's this examiner, when you in when you put in your application that that picks up your application, and it's his job to go out and search and find whether anybody's done this before and give you his opinion. And inevitably, it is his opinion is going to be you can't patent this, it's already been done. I mean, that is like 95% of all the applications that are going to be filed,

right. But they're often wrong, though they're often like dead wrong, they'll often just pick a patent has nothing to do with what you're actually doing and saying that, that it's already there, right? I mean, that was experience.

quality varies, but often you're getting people in some art units, where you're dealing with like complex chemistry or biology, you've got PhDs on the other hand, who really know what they're doing. But in other art units, these are guys with just undergrad degrees, or maybe even no relevant background. And they're going to pick it up. And the whole impetus for them is every time they send out an action rejecting your patent, they get a little quota credit from the patent office, and they basically get paid. So they're often doing the minimum amount of work that they can to the issue or rejection.

Explain what Unity is for people explain what like art what art means in this sense.

Oh, sorry. Yeah. So art is basically just what we call prior art, which is some publication or something that's existed beforehand. So you know, in the case of a plumbing thing, it might be one of those ball valves, right? Say this existed, this other one existed, someone would put it together in this way, and therefore It's obvious, though they issue they give you a document that says, We think you can't have a patent because it's obvious. And here's the references that show that. And so that's where an attorney steps in, or you can do it, you can do it yourself, you can do pro se, although it's harder to negotiate with the patent office basically explained to them, why this is new and interesting, and why you should get a patent.

Now, here's another, here's another tricky thing, right? Let's say you're like, so I have an actual business, right? So for me, it's like you'd recommend, by the way, Brian is not just a patent attorney, he is our patent attorney at Booker and DAX. So just so you know, and you know, at the end, give a plug for the firm if you want to, because, and we'll talk more about choosing a patent attorney in a little while. But the the interesting thing is if you own a business, and you're honest to what you explained to me, and you say whether I'm right, or I'm wrong or add nuance to it, but it's it's the assumption is if you're in a particular business, let's say making kitchen equipment, that you are versed in the art because you're a practitioner, right, so you're out there, you use kitchen equipment on a daily basis, you troll the internet, you see what people are doing, you know, what your competitors have done? You know, what's out there. And therefore, if you come up with something that you believe is novel, right? And your intention is to make it no matter what, don't do a search, because if you do a search, and it turns out that someone has patented, it's somewhere, right, and you have knowledge of that patent, then you are far more liable for infringing on it than if you just did it apply for a patent did it and then found out later that someone came in was like, Hey, you infringe on my patent like that? Right?

Yeah, yeah, this one, there's two issues there. You know, one is doing a search, you get a better view of what's out there. But you're right, if you're in the area, if you're already an expert, maybe you already know what's out there. But I do have clients that that want to do searches, get a better feel of whether they're eventually going to be successful in convincing the patent office, that what they have is new and interesting. Patenting is going to be is an expensive process, right? You're looking at 10s of 1000s of dollars, over a number of years. And it'd be horrible. If three years down the road, you discover that something is spot on is there. And it does happen. So so you can spend a little money upfront and do a search and find those references. I definitely recommend use an attorney or a specialized search firm to do that. Because that addresses the second point, which is that that liability issue. But searching can be valuable. The bottom line though, is it costs money and you're not required to do it. Right. The whole reason you pay the patent office money is that they can send this guy off to do a search and give you as opinion you're not required to. The second issue is the liability issue that really only comes up if you're practicing, right. So if you're not making products, you're not actually going to manufacture something, you're you're probably not going to be at much risk of what we call infringing someone else's patent. But yeah, if you know about patents out there, there's a statute in the law that says that whatever damages they can get, if they sue, you can be tripled, if they can show that you were willingly infringing. And one of the aspects of that is knowing that you knew about the past. So yeah, search, if you find something and you say, oh my gosh, this guy patented exactly what I want to make, and then you make it anyway, you can be in hot water. So that's why if you're gonna do a search, using attorney, get some some legal advice, that's not something you want to

do. But if you aren't going to make it in, there is something that you're building on it. It is still patentable, though, right?

Yeah, so that's an interesting, it's an interesting kind of wrinkle, there can be you know, a lot of people think that patents are kind of this monolith that lets you have all rights to this idea. It's really not the case, you can have patents that build off each other. So, you know, take the plumbing idea, if you're using three parts in combination to give some new functionality that might be patentable. But each of those parts may also be patented, right. So you're left with a situation where no one can make this three piece combination, because you have a patent on it. But then you can't make the three piece combination without actually getting rights from the people that have the patent on the three pieces. So there can be these kind of blocking pads. Just because you have a patent doesn't mean you have all rights to go out there and manufacture

it. On a similar note, if you have internal documentation that has not been disclosed and disclosed as another technical term, by the way, people. Can you nullify someone's patent if you show that it's prior?

No, not generally. So the law is usually going to require some public disclosure. So if you have some documents that you shared online Five years ago, maybe that's enough. But if it's private, it's usually not going to get to nullify. That changed a few years ago, there was a change in the law back in 2012 2013. That the changes of that but going forward, private documents like that are almost never going to be able to, to get rid of a patent,

what if it's actually in the item you're making, but it's hidden from view. So like a software thing that nobody knows, and you've used it as proprietary thing, but it's actually on the market already. That nullifies a patent doesn't it?

So if that is an instance, where it nullifies your own patents, you can't secretly use something. And this is, by the way, I'm gonna just caveat, this is a little bit of a gray area. But generally speaking, if you're using something and getting sales from it, you even if it's secret, even if it's not public, you can't go out and patent it. But it's not clear that somebody else could, because the whole thing about patents is public. So if you secretly use something for 20 years, like say, you know, this is kind of a tangent, but say, someone came up with the recipe for Coke, and then publicly released it. And let's say that was patentable. It's possible they could get a patent on it, even though coke has existed for years because it was secret,

and then they could force coke to pay them for it.

And it's possible, right? If that was patentable, I don't know that the formula for Coke would ever be really patentable. Right? So yeah, possible, they could get coke to pay on to buy the patent if

you want to talk about recipes, because like, in general, like we're always told recipes are not patentable, in what case is a formula actually patentable?

Yeah, so that's a super interesting thing. I don't think it's the case that recipes are not patentable. I think it's just the case that there's so many recipes out there. And usually, someone's done something similar. So you know, you take some of the modernist techniques that have come up in recent years, the use of like, Agha or fluid gels, or hydrocolloid, most of those stemmed from industrial processes. And if you go look back, there are a lot of patents on the industrial process. You look at medicinal uses of various, various foods or herbs, those are subject to patents, you look at freeze drying, or any of these like mass production things for food that goes on to your grocery self, those are subject to patent. So if you have a truly novel recipe, its potential potentially patentable. The problem is that that most of the time, you're going for taste right, you talked about this a lot on the show that you're optimizing for taste and experience. And that's not something that patent law was a lot of emphasis on right, whereas shelf life, longevity, spoilage, those are kind of things that are a little more persuasive to a patent examiner,

right? New emulsifying systems, new new texture systems even can be put on like low fat systems are often patented. A lot of low fat and fat replacement systems have been patented. I know. Because the way that a lot of chefs alike figured out how to do things in the early 2000s was reading patent literature on a constant basis, literally, why they do Frank would sit around on the computer and read patent applications for like an hour a day to find out new crap he could steal for fine dining.

Absolutely, yeah. And I think it's also just a question of economics, right? If you're, if you're just producing recipes for WD 50, you're not going to want to spend 1000s of dollars patenting this, because you don't really care if some guy in Australia is stealing, stealing your recipes. Just the culturally,

PS people that actually happened. Alright, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this, because you probably can't see this when you're choosing a patent attorney, if you want it if you decide to patent something. And by the way, I have three applications out, I think two of them have been granted. So far, we got one in the mix, and hopefully another one coming up, Brian, I'll talk about it later. But the the one of the things is, is that you really, really, your lawyer and your lawyers team, are going to produce the patent for you. What that means is, is they're going to sit and they're going to talk to you about what your invention is, they're going to render their opinions on it. And then they are going to physically write the document out you are not most if you hire an attorney, which I recommend you do. Highly recommend highly. They are going to make the drawings, they are going to try to figure out what the claims are, and all of that stuff. And it's much much harder if the person that you're dealing with doesn't know anything about your field, or doesn't care about your field. Because it's very hard to get people to understand what the invention is what the heart of the invention is. And you even as the inventor might not understand the heart of the invention from the patent perspective. And so, I encourage you to don't necessarily just take the first lawyer, you talk to make sure that they have a feeling for your field, right? That they have a feeling for what they think they're going to be able to get by a patent examiner, because here's this thing. You know, as Brian said, the first time two times three times your patent, the patent examiner is going to come back and saying you can't get a patent. And you need a lawyer who understands your product well enough to fight for it to get the claims you want. admitted, right, because you're gonna give up on you're gonna have a whole bunch of claims saying, you know, my invention does XYZ ba ba, ba, ba ba, the patent office examiner is gonna say, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And in general, it's a bit of a bargaining practice where you're going to get rid of some claims or put some stipulations on some of your claims in order to get that patent granted, but the more the your lawyer understands what you're doing, and can be an advocate for you, not in the legal sense, but just in that sense of being an advocate for you like that better, chances are that you're going to have a better patent or that you'll get the patent at all. Would you say that's a fair comment, Brian?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no, I think that patenting is, like I said, you're entering a government bureaucracy, and your only advocate is your attorney. And I think, to me, one of the key aspects of a good attorney is the ability to take these complex technical inventions and distill it down to something simple, and explain it in a plain English way. Because a lot of these guys, these examiner's they work on all different technical fields, they have no idea a lot of them don't even read the application that you file, they just read the claim. And so they don't understand the you've got to have someone who can go on there. And within five or 10 minutes not only explain the invention, but get the examiner on your side that this is a cool invention, that it's worth protecting, that it has some really good benefit. And so, you know, I think when you're looking for a patent attorney, you should be able to explain the invention to him. And he should be able to explain it back to you, in a clear manner, maybe even better than you put it yourself because you're the inventor, you're not dealing with trying to tell this story. But that's what an attorney does. That's what an application should be. Because that's the bottom line is if you ever tried to enforce a patent, you're gonna go in front of a jury, you know, 12 people with no technical background, and you're going to need something to show them and explain to them why your invention is worth protecting. And that's, that's what a good attorney can do for you.

In fact, you guys recommended a couple claims to us. We hadn't even thought of me anyway, you want to give a plug for your firm or no? Do you want people telling you?

So I'm with I'm with canobie, Martin's Olson and bear we're we're primarily on the west coast. But we've we've moved national, we actually just opened an office in New York. So I'm going to hopefully, come visit you guys soon. Hopefully, we'll have a new one, the third largest IP specific law firm in the nation. So I'm been here since 2010. Really happy with it. Great Room.

Nice. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for calling in. And Dave, should we take a commercial break? Yeah, let's do that. Let's take commercial break, come back with cooking issues.

Bob's Red Mill has been milling whole grains since 1978. When you mill whole grains, you get all three parts, the bran, the germ, and the endosperm. The brand where the roughage makes up about 14% of the whole grain. It's the outer skin of the edible kernel. It contains large amounts of B vitamins, some protein, trace minerals, phytochemicals, but most importantly, dietary fiber, the germ is only about 2.5% of the kernel, it's actually the sprouting section of the seed what's going to grow into a plant, it's usually separated during milling process because it contains most of the fat, and therefore has a shorter shelf life. The endosperm is the main energy storage unit of the seed. That's where the growing plant gets its energy before it can start photosynthesizing and making its own. It makes up a huge portion of the grain about 83%. And it's the main source, it's used for white flour. When you make white flour, you get rid of the germ and the brand and just have the white endosperm. Left. It contains almost all the carbohydrates. It also contains protein and iron, and some of the other B vitamins as well. It's kind of what you classically think of when you're thinking of flour. So all that's there when you're dealing with whole grains, but when you will whole grains, you also get the brand, which is the kind of roughage and gives that that's what gives that that kind of color to it also gives you extra fiber that helps you to be regular, and you also get the germ, which adds the fat and the flavor, which we all like from whole grains. Learn more at Bob's Red mill.com/podcast. And we're back. Okay, so that was a actually we haven't really talked about patenting much on the air, you know what I mean? So I think it's good, hopefully, you know, it's thorough people, you know, I think it's been worthwhile for us to have it done anything. And by the way, when you patent something, even if you work at a company, the patent goes in your name and then but it's owned by the company where you sign away your rights to it. Yeah, so it's like You know, it feels good though. It feels good. So, Nick, Nick had a question.

Yeah, the first name of your law firm Kenobi.

Yeah, I think Brian hung up but yeah, first name Kenobi. They're like the they're like patent Jedi guys. That's what that's their shtick, wouldn't you trust. It's basically Brian's like, Hey, listen, literally, he called he's like, Hey, I listened to your show and some of your complaints about patenting. He's like, let's you know, let's talk I'm a patent lawyer. And then when he was like, I work and Kenobi I'm like, okay, dun dun sold done. I don't actually know if it's I spelled that

way. Okay, I know BB.

You know what, they changed their name. When they when they made it to Ellis Island. They changed their name away from the Jedi name because the guy couldn't write it down right?

Is there a patent on on Kenobi? There should be well, you

know about Obi Wan Kenobi jokes, right? No, you don't know about Obi Wan Kenobi. Oh my god off air because we've done that on air before right? Kenobi jokes? Yeah, yes. It's not racist. Why would it be racist? I'm trying to remember which jokes. It's like, you know, like Temple of Doom racist. That's like super racist. No, it's like a Kenobi. Kenobi jokes are like when you just like use his name, and you mess around with it. Like, you know what, what Jedi is always in the desert Gobi Wan Kenobi or like, you know what, you know what? What Jedi likes to cut hair. Flow Obi Wan Kenobi or like it just keep going on and you you can you can come up with like hundreds and hundreds of of like Obi Wan jokes. You know what I mean? But why would you? Like, when you know what Jedi believes that knowing is half the battle? No, GI Joe Obi Wan Kenobi. For those of you that watch the GI Joe cartoons. All I'm saying I'm not saying that I'm recommending this, but I'm saying when you're sitting around, like working, like, like, at some point in your life, you'll just start rattling off Obi Wan jokes and then the person next to you, like five minutes later, it's not that anyone's laughing. It's not alive. You don't laugh, but the person next to you five minutes later will say something like, you know, something. They'll see another Obi Wan flip you know, eventually in like five minutes, he will do one. That's what's gonna happen. My guess or maybe he's gonna Nick is one of those guys. he's not going to as soon as we wrap Yeah, he's, he's gonna have an OB lunch. At lunch today. We're going to be eating that new pizza with whatever it is. What was it against us? Ursula. Ursula Yeah, Ursula and then he's gonna bust out an Obi Wan joke about like some sort of Clan based Obi Wan joke or some sort of like octopus based or pizza base that will be one joke Amobi joke Moby I've never done Moby but like yeah, like, like what you know vegetarian musician Jedi will be a Moby will be more Obi Wan Kenobi. So you could do any you could do any sort of like you know, like, you know what Jedi is constipation or Obi Wan Kenobi like he can go you can do anything. It's like it's, it's just, I mean, I think you guys get the, the basic pattern of the Obi Wan joke. Anyway. It's not a joke. It's just a thing. Anyway, so I mentioned this a little bit. Last week, Tim Ropar wrote in and I'm gonna say it again, just because my as we'll go through it. Question Why Celsius. I understand metric measurements and weight and volume, but it seems like Fahrenheit is more precise and Celsius. And last week, I believe I just said, cause Tim, you got any thoughts on this? Nope. How do you cook? Do you cook in Celsius Do you cook in Fahrenheit? Depends on what it is. Me too. So what do you cook in Celsius? I'll be judging you. By the way.

I mean, typically meats I do in Fahrenheit.

Really? Really? So steak is in Fahrenheit. Yeah, just

because I'm not dealing with people that are that know about that stuff a lot. So it's easier to translate on to medium rare and rare for what they know. Right? Right. Okay.

Okay. So what do you cook in Celsius? So you cook in Fahrenheit? Yeah. Listen, I really think it just has to do with, I think it just has to do with whatever you whatever you grew up with. It's actually

a lot more technical dishes that will go through Celsius just because that's what it what a thing,

right. So even though it's Celsius degree is in fact nine fifths larger than a Fahrenheit degree. It's no more or less precise because I can just easily quote decimals in Celsius. And in fact, I mean, it's rare to go decimal and Celsius, but it's rare to acquire anything that goes decimal and Celsius Celsius. The only thing is like if the 63 degree egg is the only thing really that I've ever had to use kind of decimals and then frankly, some steaks like you can a decimal higher or lower, it can make a difference at service time because of just where it's going to get on. finished. But in general, the decimals not that important as Celsius degree is pretty much good enough. What do you think, Nick?

Yeah, I feel the same way use Fahrenheit for most conventional stuff, because that's what all of our ovens are calibrated at like 400 Fahrenheit or whatever. A circulator. So mainly you find the source in Celsius, though,

right and go with that. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that a circulators are science pieces and the circulator speak Fahrenheit if you want them to die the way so this is a kind of a little bit of, but they are a scientific instrument. And so most people who use them professionally use them in Celsius, most like low temperature work really came to this country through Europe, through Spain, primarily even though Bruno Gousto is kind of like the you know, granddaddy of low temperature cooking, or as he calls it, is use GET DOWN is used shut down, because he's not like, French. He's like, he's like, it's not that it's low temperature. It's the correct temperature. This is get down anyway. But like, he's like, he's like that. Yeah, he's voice doesn't sound like that. But that's what he's like. And he's a booker, you should know you speak French now. I mean, I never heard that word. Booker has shoved the microphone into his eye socket. Anyway, so like the point being that, you know, so because most of that stuff came in via because most of that stuff came in via Europe, it's Celsius. And at the time, you know, cooking schools, I was teaching at the French Culinary Institute. So all of my work was in Celsius because I was dealing with French cheese. And those guys ain't cooking in in Fahrenheit. Anyway. Also, placing my first order for monitors pantry, and when it Booker, when you clear your throat there, go away from the mic train. You gotta gotta teach Booker, some microphone etiquette. You know what I mean? Sorry. Yeah, all right. No, it's fine. You know, fine. You know what, the last time you were on, people enjoyed having you on? Oh, then they might enjoy me this time. I will find out. And but you know, the truth is, is no one would say if they didn't, because it'd be incredibly rude. That's one of the reasons why I thought it'd be really good to have the bar named after you and your brother. Because as soon as people are like, Why don't you name it, Booker, next week, those are my children's names, and then they shut up. See, I'm saying, like, my selfish. Yeah, my whole life is based around getting people to just like to kind of cut off criticism, right? If you design your work around cutting off criticism, like you end up like having less criticism to deal with, right, a non constructive criticism, you want constructive criticism. But like, that's why like, a little bit of self deprecation can cut off criticism, like you know, I mean, it's a it's a tactic I use to try to prevent people from bothering me about things that I don't want to be bothered about. You know what I'm saying?