Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Cooking issues this is Dave Arnold, your host with cookies just coming to you every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 or one o'clock from Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn. joined as usual with the Stasi of the hammer Lopez, how're you doing? Good. Yeah. And that Dave in the booth Dave, how you doing? Doing? Good. That's good. And we supposed to have he just

said Oh, F word.

So so it looks like we will. Looks like we will not have our guests. I won't even announce who it is so that no one can have him on blast, right? Oh, me. No, you're not on blast. So also in the ongoing saga of Take Your Child to Work life. We have Booker on Ohio and Booker. I'm doing well. Yeah. What are you up to?

Just playing on my phone?

I don't mean right now. I mean, General.

Just enjoying life in New York.

Yeah. How's how's your vegetarianism going?

I I missed chicken. So I went back to it. I now don't eat red meat anymore.

You don't eat red meat. But you eat chicken meat. Eat bacon.

No, bacon is utterly disgusting. See,

I was in a stasis somehow. He's convinced himself now the stuff that formerly he loved is not just if he doesn't eat it in investing. It's disgusting. Which is just wrong. Yeah. So you cook anything interesting in the last couple of weeks of testing out, eat anything interesting. Last couple of weeks. No. So you just insulted every restaurant you've been to in the past five years really? insulted. insulted about you Dave anything?

Yeah, it was in the Outer Banks last week and made my annual pilgrimage to dirty dicks crab shack for all you can eat crab legs. Yeah. How was it? Fantastic. I think I had seven plates.

And let me ask you this. The green flies. Were they as big as the crabs you were

eating? No, they're they're not as much of a problem done in North Carolina or they

used to be do they spray the hell out of them now is it just the entire Earth is covered with poison it used to be August Guidos and green flies on a constant basis back in the 80s. They may

have sprayed the area because one day the ocean was filled with dead jellyfish.

Is there a better ones? My favorite kind of jellyfish in fact, Aiden Stasio. What? What's your favorite thing about humidity in the Outer Banks?

so hot that you once saw a bass chasing a squirrel up a tree?

Yeah, exactly. A Booker. Yeah. No more sound effects into the microphone and no noise gets really easy to know. Like Booker was literally sitting there with his earphones on going. Right anyway.

Okay, I'll shut up.

Booker. You know, you can you don't need to telegraph what you're going to do you just do it. Call your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 I actually had an interesting culinary adventure and we talked about studying cheeseburgers on this program. No. So there is a weird, Connecticut only subculture of cheeseburgers called their esteemed cheeseburgers and this arose during the Depression someone in Middletown, Connecticut, came up with the idea that they were going to build a steamer box. I don't really know why I should go back and read the read the patents, but they came up with this steamer box. And the steamer box, you put the meat into this little box and you steam the hell out of it. And then you put the cheese into this little box and then you steam the hell out of it. Which doesn't sound particularly good, right? So there's only a couple places left to do it. There's this place called Tom's and there's a place called Rourke's works it's kind of a well known diner Rourke's I like going to work Booker actually has been to works he likes works okay. Their steam cheeseburgers is god awful. I don't like it. But the Tom's actually does a decent job and I actually don't really can even picture this as a square burger. That steamed and then square piece of cheese that steamed

I can score. I mean, I can picture a square piece of cheese but not a burger. Well, some

people make square burgers but they're not Steve's son a new Wendy's well, they're not steamed that's the everyone's like

oh, it's weak. He said I can square those are steamed

griddle. This is entirely different. No griddle no high heat marks on it all one a New Haven's? Hey, no Louise lunch well known what they have every Yes, every restaurant

that I recommend. It's in New York. Okay. What is it? Cafe Uzziah.

Cafes it is a like Japanese takeout joint or a cafe. Yeah, some good news. Mr. Garcia. None of my Dropbox stuff is working so I can't get to today's questions. Amazing.

That's okay, we got to color

finish closing so the steam cheeseburgers the ones that Louise launch are vertically grilled in their own special vertical griller they use Cheez Whiz don't allow you to take Kate take ketchup and they also have a vertical toaster that they grill so everything is Cheez Whiz on white bread with their burger that's done in this special vertical grill with these little like crematorium doors that open and close to put the burgers into the steam burger is like they take a hunk of a thing of raw beef which is about I think a little over a quarter pound or thereabouts smash into a square container and throw it into a steamer and steam it Toms does it until it's just done so it's still got some juice to one the other one was like incredibly dry works does a good job and other things they just have this steam cheeseburgers did to keep up with history. But the steam cheese which they said is a revelation and they take the long giant blocks not of government cheese but of the harder cheddar cheese, but in long blocks. Cut it into giant strips cut into pieces and steaming it inflates and the cheese which they also put on cheese fries. They also do a steamed cheese as a grilled cheese variant. The steamed cheese is delicious. So I'm going to try to figure out their steamed their steamed cheese. Technology. Steams cheeseburgers. Caller you're on the air.

Yeah. Hi. Hi guys. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, so I finally got some MSG at the bad neighborhood grocery store. And I'm wondering, as far as just cooking with regular MSG, what, what are some good applications as opposed to you know, typical, more complicated umami flavors? I tried it on popcorn it was actually kind of disgusting. But I also tried it with trying to make your noodle town style green which turned out pretty well. So I have no no clue what to do with it because recipes seem to avoid it entirely.

Right so legislation I'm trying to get like a what's a call here? I'm trying to get a level what's your What did you find disgusting about the popcorn.

It indeed math the typical popcorn flavor and added the savory in the savory part of it didn't taste good. It just tasted like tasted like something else. Upon identify, not not necessarily bad it just it was almost just like it would destroy the popcorn flavor then intensified.

Right so I think what happened there is you it tasted probably what I was looking for is it tasted like accident. It tasted like dashi right. So it tastes everything tastes when you add MSG, everything tastes a little bit like dashi right. So you don't notice that so much in something like beef jerky, which has that particular flavor, but popcorn, which isn't intended. So for instance, if you were going to take the popcorn, and make a dashi flavored popcorn, well then the MSG would be good. If you were going to take the popcorn and make a beef jerky flavored popcorn, then the MSG would be good when you're making like a Doritos flavored thing that has like a high load of things like cheese and tomato. MSG tastes good. But that back flavor that you have from that bag flavor that you get from MSG, does it taste good and things that aren't intended to be savory in that protein breakdown sense, right? So only things that are intended to have kind of protein breakdown flavors in them like cheeses, which undergo you know, protein hydrolysis during aging. Or tomatoes have natural free fatty acids or things like seaweed that has not free fatty acid sorry, free, free amino acids. Sushi. I mean, sushi is really light peeps, some people would say stuff like that like like fish and ours, like raw fish, or like,

Well, what about what about Chinese greens is just because you expect that flavor to come with Chinese greens? Or why

are you putting bacon into your? Are you putting bacon into your Chinese greens or no? What's that? Are you putting bacon into your Chinese greens? or No? No, it

was basically just just, you know, the ideal this year and I don't know how it's made is are you? Do you have the garlic chives or the foreign?

Yeah, I love those songs. Yeah, I don't put MSG into them. No, but yeah,

it seems to be I mean, it's hard to tell what's there. But I'm assuming it was an MSG, cornstarch. Because

those things are straight up, those things are straight up delicious on their own. I don't know that they'd need MSG. I mean, the great thing about MSG is you can treat MSG like you treat salt. So you can take you could take like a small amount of it, add a small amount of MSG to it, and then see whether you liked the effect, you know what I mean?

But stuff like cabbage, stir fried cabbage, just a little it does actually. It's really good even without any of the you know, any any added meat.

Right? So you but you're adding a bit of like a kind of a savory savory as though there were meat or not just me. It's as though there was meat as though there is cheese as though there were tomatoes. In other words, like things that are either high in free amino acids or are high in protein breakdown products, right? So anything that soy sauce would be good in or you want soy sauce and msg can punch that, right? Anything that you can like cents, oh, this would be good. If we were going to add Parmesan, MSG would work in it anything where you think, Oh, I'm going to add a bunch of tomato. That's so much tomatoes, but tomato paste, anything you would add tomato paste to like, oh, a little MSG might might do well here. You said I'm saying

Do you think that have a you know cooking with all these things, whether in an Italian or a you know, Chinese context? with soy sauce with Parmesan. Is there any? If you have access to those who are very disappointed in using the MSG at all, or

Yeah, sure. I mean, soy sauce has a lot of extra flavors to it as soon as you add, frankly, as soon as you add I mean, I think I said on the air a million times I had someone make me a Fettuccine Alfredo analogue with reduced sodium and the way that they accomplished reducing the sodium was to add MSG to it. But they didn't add MSG because that would have been a bad label declaration. They added like, you know, pros like soy protein isolates or something like that. And to me, it all of a sudden shifted from being an Italian dish into being something that tasted much more kind of recognizably like had an Asian slant to it. You know what I mean? I think soy pushes it even farther in in in that direction. Almost like a book or you have a question,

but Mike was crowding my face so I was trying to push it away.

Guess what, no one can see that because no one sees what we're doing. They can only hear it so you don't need to mention that sorry. Okay. So the

so I saw I saw last last last last grip on that that I saw on Andy Andy Ricker of Bach Bach on on some some video where he claimed to be eating steak and he was in Thailand and he claimed that the steak feeding had been marinated in MSG. I don't know if it was a dry brine or if it was just salting, salting it quote unquote folding it or if it was actually in a brine, D like that actually Is that? Is that gonna penetrate the meat and do anything different? Or is it just gonna break down into the components?

Well, MSG is a good bit larger than salt, but it's still a relatively small molecule. So me I honestly, I don't know, I don't know, I've never done that, that kind of a test. Now, it depends on what you mean by marinade. If someone like Jack carves the hell out of something, or beats it with a mallet breaks it apart. Also, if they're marinating it also in acid, or marinating in a lot of salt. Here's the thing, right people testings like marinates, because I've been doing a lot of these kinds of tests, like they typically test on something that has a fairly fine structure, because those things are cheap. So they test things like chicken breast, right? I mean, a lot of the things that you've seen on marination tests have been chicken breast or, you know, like relatively, like even grained muscle meat because they feel that this is going to be a more kind of relevant test, because it takes away a lot of the variables. But as it turns out, when you salt the hell out of something that is has a lot of intramuscular collagen, like the collagen tends to separate. This is why when you pick up a piece of meat that's been salted heavily, and you pull on it, you can see it's separate along its grain boundaries, because the intramuscular the intra fiber, collagen has kind of broken down a little bit of broken away, weaken the collagen. And so you actually will get penetration of liquids into those crevices. Now, those things will probably get boiled out almost immediately when you're going to cook it but solids, right? Things that aren't liquid, things that don't boil, things like MSG possibly do have a greater penetration into those areas and situations like that, I think you can think of if you've ever thought about like taking a piece of meat, like a London Broil, let's say out of a marinade and lifting it under its own weight, you can see the gaping and separation in your mind, I don't know if you can see it, I can see it in my mind this gaping and separation. And in those places, you will get liquids those liquids contain solids. And even though those liquids boil right out again, so you think there's no effect, right? The solids that were deposited at the same time still there. So MSG will probably get in there. I don't I don't know the effect my feeling is is that I don't like it when things go to like to umami. And I think that MSG, unlike salt, where I'm trained to, like, withstand a relatively wide range of salt concentrations and still be happy. I can't really I don't really like like a huge amount of MSG. And once it's detectable to me as MSG, once it seems that there's more of that flavor in there. Then kind of God wants there to be in there. Based on the ingredients. I start seeing it as an off flavor, which is I think what was happening to you in the popcorn scenario.

Yeah, I think that's what happened when it's background noise. It's good and an enhancer but when it's when the television tuned is bad, you know? Not enjoyable,

right? That's the same way also like I love salt. I'm not I mean, I love salt. Does anyone who's had my cooking knows, but I I'm not a huge fan of desserts that are so salty that they taste like salt. I'm not I appreciate them. But I wouldn't I don't want to pound a bunch of even though I know they're extraordinarily popular and most people like it desserts have salt. A lot of chefs nowadays Booker and for the past I would say eight years, including chefs, they're like good friends of mine have never heard of such a thing. salty caramel. Salt water saltwater taffy salt water taffy. Strangely not very salty. The name doesn't.

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you guys with with booger reminded me of another question. I'm not gonna ask this question, but I'll just pose it is that that he's not eating red meat. But is there a good definition of red meat? So I don't think there is.

Yes, there is not a good definition that color is a bad a bad way to kind of judge it. Like, really? You should just he should just say look, I'm not eating like, I'm not eating mammals. He's not eating mammals. Basically chickens are mammals. Aren't there no kinds of bird chickens like chickens a bird? It's like a dinosaur. Yeah, would you say?

Is it a reptile chicken?

No, no. Oh my god I'm dealing with I'm dealing with some highly, highly.

Has anybody ever seen Jurassic Park? Come on? Well,

the interesting thing about birds in general now is that birds nowadays our birds nowadays are cat like categorized basically as being the direct descendants of dinosaurs. So somewhere in the past 10 years Natural History Museum has like read on all of their stuff to say that birds are dinosaurs when I was a kid this wasn't how you thought of it. You thought of birds had descended from like similar roots of dinosaurs with like Archaeopteryx was I believe the name of the bird but nowadays they're like birds are living dinosaurs. That's the way they that's the way they put it. Are you do you believe that stuff Anastasia. And I've only known that I want to believe you want to believe yes,

mammals met warm blooded animals. Birds are no mammals

are a specific group of animals warm blooded in this developed prior to Prior to mammals to chickens

have warm blood.

Well, they're they have red blood so

well that that's not

necessarily that animal has blue blood. Oh, it's a PI and

squid horseshoe crabs. Now. Now listen. Alright, Donald,

try not to make I'll try not to make excessive sounds with the mic. I'm I was just pushing it away from me not

to crowd my face. Yes. So I'm trying to watch Yes, I'm

gonna push it away from my face. Okay.

Yes. Okay. A Anastasia. Since I'm having trouble with my electronics here. Can you locate the questions from yesterday?

So you can just read read this and have it in the email?

Take another call. In the meantime, sure. Caller you're on the air.

Hello, Dave. Is this Luis from Florida. How

are you? Alright, how you doing? How's Florida right now? Is it as nasty as it is here?

Good to see humid man too humid. Hey, hate that. It'll probably still

September. It was so humid the other day where I was in Connecticut Friday, right? Yeah, that I honestly, I started yelling at my whole family. I was like, who dumped water all over the freakin floor because we had these tile floors. They're like, No, that's just it's just it's that freakin human. Like when you go to bed at night, the pillows are wet. It's like Maine humid you ever been up to Maine in the summertime? It's a different kind of humid because I guess in Florida, you're used to being human. But like main humidity is like everything is like wet. Because it's not hot enough to burn all the wet off of everything. So everything's just wet all the time. Anyway, go ahead. What's your question?

My question is, I have a client that's interested in cooking or suckling pig. She has a trigger grill, one of those electric grill motors slash smoker. And my question is, what would be the best way to prep cook? The pig pigs inside of this whole thing?

I've never used one of those things. Most people who do this suckling pigs, how big is the pig? Like, like, is it like, is it like, tiny or like most most suckling pigs are like on the large side compared to what you would get, let's say in Spain, right? So like most of the suckling pigs that I bought in the US are in the, like, 20 to 24 pound range, whereas,

yeah, nothing between 15 and 20 pounds. Yeah.

So I mean, the good news is that most people are used to having that stuff. Incredibly overcooked anyway, right. So I mean, it depends on what you're going to, it depends on what you're kind of going to do. I would I would probably end up going. I would probably go low and slow with that guy. I mean, that's typically what you would do, I would solve the heck out of the interior of it. rubs some on the outside? I would err dry the skin out a little bit. And then this this thing, have a rotisserie on it or no? No, yeah, I have good results with rotisseries. But yeah, I would go low, and I would go low and stomp the promise. The problem with these with suckling pig, is that the meat is just so thin, in like a lot of places, it's hard to get the thing to come together all at the same time. That's why, you know, you just want to like end up not drying it out, because everything in order to get up inside of it unless you're going to low temp it right. Unless you're going to do low temperature cooking on it, like parts of it are going to be horribly overcooked. So everything is going to basically be taken up to like a barbecue level. So you're going to have to treat it like a piece of barbecued meat. Otherwise, you it's not possible to do it any other way. So then what you do is you do it low and slow. And then you've got to make sure that you crisp up the skin at the outside like I actually like doing like like almost like almost like like, like steam it to cook it like low low, right low, pull it out air dry the skin like hell, and then just crisp the hell out of the skin. But it's been How many years has it been since I've done one of these things. It's been like it's been a long time. It's been probably 10 years since I've done a suckling pig are longer, but so, yeah, so. So I'm gonna, I'm trying to go back on what my best kind of results have been. I mean, my best results probably have been traditional spit roast. But you don't have a spit in this case. Yeah. Do you have to do it soon or no? Sorry. Do you have to do it soon or no? Yeah. And you don't want to load template. You want to cook it entirely in this thing? Right? Does anyone is anyone in the chat room have any good? suckling pig stuff? Dave?

Let me ask. Let me get that.

Let me get the chat room on it. We'll get back to it the towards the end of the show. Of course. All right. Thanks, man. I start asking me some questions. I

texted them to you can just read well, I know that you have a you're much fast.

Nothing's coming through text. No, I'm not getting any information on my phone. Like nothing like my phone is no longer my phone. Well, how is that helpful for people right now? I need it right. I need it right now.

Okay, we made some questions. This guy who says he's reading the manual that it will be something that will be life altering for baby food. I have a baby that is about to start eating food. This may save myself I mean, my friend from getting into deep trouble. Do you have any guidelines for the best pre treatment of ingredients and our methods to get ultra smooth purees can't wait to make baby food and gin and tonics. Thanks for the great show devotion to food, blah, blah, blah.

Okay, so yeah, I remember this person has not told their wife that they bought the spin saw is the is the daily and so they feel they need some sort of excuse to sell the spin. This

is our you know, and somebody asked me, I was like, this is our key audience and the middle aged man. How do you I

just had a kid? How do you know how old they are? That could be 22. How? A new kid, they just had a kid. That's why they're asking about babies. No, I

know. But like, Okay, well, I have no idea what

you met, you make a lot of us how old are you, you make a lot of freaking assumptions about P chip, please write in. And anyway, whatever point is this. So the baby foods, what you end up the thing that's amazing about it is that you can the pulp that's leftover after you take the water out of something, whether it be a fruit or a vegetable, is incredibly smooth and incredibly, just like rich and dense and amazing. So the best baby food results I get. Unfortunately, we need to get meat so you could do any fruit and just take the liquid out of it. And the Pope is amazing. So like strawberry, but you have to take this stuff off the top so you don't have the little seedy parts. amazingly smooth peach, patchouli peach is insane. So you get the peach juice and then you get all the pectins and solids. Amazing. But my favorite my all time favorite is you take sweet potatoes, you heat the hell out of them actually know what this might know. And it's probably better to eat that you know, you cook them, then you blend them with a little bit of liquid. Now I add an enzyme which I'm going to try to people who try to get monitors pantry to carry these enzymes eventually, like the starch conversion enzymes and that distillers use, like and then you hit that and it converts all the excess starch to sugar sweetens it up and freeze it so that you can get more juice out of it. You spin it you get the juice out and the sweet potato that's left you tasted that even you like this. Yeah, it's like super, super smooth and delicious. But you need the starch enzymes you might be able to get samples of them I'll get the ones I used again and try to talk about them next week it was I used term a meal and I used San clear I forget the number of it but there there distillers enzymes amazing amazing but not currently available and in the in the kind of rush to put some products out there. I didn't want to add too many things. So monitors pantry hasn't started carrying that yet. They just started carrying the the Kaita sand, but I would just try it with something like peaches or anything like that because it's just after you vitae, prep the hell out of something and then break down the pectin. So it's just solids, but it's not like a pectin anymore. The texture of these things is freaking nuts. And the density of flavor is extremely high because you've removed a lot of the liquid anyway, that's a dope is that a good answer says Okay, next.

We're gonna take a quick break. Sure. Yeah,

take a break we're right back with cooking issue

this episode is brought to you by Castor and Pollux maker of America's number one organic pet food organics. You put a lot of care and thought into what you eat. After all, you're a food radio listener, that thoughtfulness goes hand in paw with how you feed your pets. Purposeful pet food doesn't happen by accident. Castor and Pollux scours the earth to carefully select the best organic and responsibly sourced ingredients. New pristine from Castor and Pollux is the only complete line of pet food made with ingredients that are responsibly raised, caught or grown. Feed your dog or cat the new standard, like grass fed beef, wild cod fish and vegetables grown without synthetic fertilizers or chemical pesticides. Pristine from Castor and Pollux, purposeful pet food, Learn more at Heritage Radio network.org/pets.

And we are back. So still trying to deal with our technical issues here. So what else anything good on the spins off front? We're about to ship these suckers. They're like we have over 500 of them made tested

box to know what their shipping confirmation number is

how well they're going to ship it like there's a bunch of

people from Canada who were missing numbers in their addresses who have been contacting us many missing numbers saying like they forgot to put like a number in their street. Address like if their numbers 101 they only put 10 So, so what Thanks for clearing those up Canadians are very helpful.

Wow, she's in stasis Sarah still hasn't come through. So

might as well just read me another question someone wants to know if you're coming in Northern California anytime soon. Not

that I know of. If I do, though, I'll mentioned it on the air probably about 10 minutes before I go.

That's true. This guy wants to know sardines or other oily fish, which is better packed in water oil.

This is a Nastasia. Now I understand why she doesn't want to read questions because she's read like one half to one quarter to 1/10 of the question. The person is interested, as I remember reading it this morning, the person is interested in increasing their omega three fatty acid consumption. I know you don't believe in health, though. I don't but I still know it's technical stuff. Why don't you read that? So they're interested in increasing their their omega three fatty acid consumption? And they want to know whether or not the oil in the oil pack sardines. Somehow the oil leeches out the omega three fatty acids so that they've because you typically drain the oil in the sardines, even though when I was a kid, miss dassia I used to like I would like every week when I went to visit my dad, we would get a can't Booker. We would get a can of sardines, and I would sit and I would dip cheese and breadsticks into the oil and then eat the sardines. Oh, our quarter right anyway, they want to know if the omega three fatty acid is leached out by the oil and if they should eat water packed and now I will say what I always say Anastasia first, I looked in the scientific literature I could find nothing on someone testing residual omega three fatty acids and sardines based on packing technology. Apparently, either just I missed it or no one's done the study yet, too. I will say this forget your health my friend. Sardines packed in water or the devil sir teams packed in oil or what you want to eat but even Booker prefer sardines packed in oil to sardines packed in water for skinless and boneless put your headphones. Yes, he does prefer skinless and boneless. I think most people do although I wish he would eat the bones because they have more calcium, but I will agree that I don't like the gritty texture. Is it the gritty texture of the bones that you don't like Booker? Yeah. Okay. All right. Next question.

This guy wants to know, I seem to recall that a while back he discussed a study on cooling suevey proteins.

Read the actual question so that you listen so listeners Listen, so listeners can understand what the question is. All right.

Word for effing words. Typically, we're comparing proteins that we that were cooled immediately. Anna,

you didn't mention Gustavo. So how could you say you've read the whole thing word for word? Oh, I thought I said no. Go go. I said, Gustavo, alright. Alright. Start again. Start again, starting I seem to recall

that a while back, you discussed the study Gousto. Briefly, so cooling suevey proteins, specifically, you are comparing proteins that were cooled immediately on ice compared to a stage technique which involves room temperature than cold water than ice water. I cannot recall the results of the study or your thoughts on it. Since I'm always looking to improve my to lead products. Can you please elaborate on this topic? Nate?

Oscar worthy performance necessity. Appreciate that. The All right. Yes. So this is something and by the way, I will say this for the for the record. Again, even though I've said this 8 million times, there is no best way to do anything, right? This doesn't exist, the best way to do anything. There's what you like, here's another thing, you cannot, you cannot determine what is even the best for you in isolation, because you cannot trust yourself to you cannot trust yourself to have the same or even similar taste buds to everyone that you're cooking for or to even like the same thing. So I've been running. Back when I used to teach Suvi low temperature work at the FCI I would have 20 or 30 people. And we would have every class we would run the same test on 20 or 30 people. And it was extremely edifying to me to realize that, that your what you prefer, is not the same across the board. It's not 100% of the people like it one way or the other. Most things are only small differences one way or the other. Like in other words, it's only a small difference at all. And then in general, what you have is more people than not like it one way than another. So this is one of those cases where that cooling technique you use when you're doing cvwd work right? More more people than not prefer it slightly when you chill it properly. And this is how is this is the reason why if you choose something immediately by taking something out of this CV bath and throwing it into ice water right, the proteins cool relatively quickly. And Bruno Bousso discovered that the amount of liquids that the meat can reabsorb as its cooling is lower if you chill it rapidly because it will stop reabsorbing liquids once it goes below a certain temperature, then if you cool it rather gradually, so Gustavo has done a did this, he has this like kind of bell curve where you take the meat, ideally, you take the meat out of a out of the bath, you put it on the counter for 10 to 15 minutes, depending on thickness, you put it into running tap water for 10 to 15 minutes, depending on thickness, then I sit down to cool it. And he found for him that is ideal. And then me, you know, thinking that that was kind of not, you know, couldn't possibly be true that that was just a bunch of hoo ha, ran the test many times on groups of 20 people and by and large people did actually choose a multi step cooling process. Now, the benefits between just letting it rest on the counter for 20 minutes, 1520 minutes before cooling it all the way, we're almost the entire benefit, as opposed to waiting and waiting for you know, like doing all three. So like doing all three did win slightly. But you ended up winning almost as much just by doing a single step by letting it sit on the counter for a while to cool down before you before you sit down. I will also say that these tests that I ran have this caveat. And also the tests that Bruno Caruso ran have this, this caveat, there are only four meats that were cooked, chilled, and reheat it, if you're not going to reheat it, I don't know that you would have the same kind of results. And this is a mistake that a lot of people make including myself, when you're telling people how to cook things, or what the best way to cook things are, is you assume that by changing one of the variables in your process, you're not changing the the result of the thing that you're testing. So in other words, it could be entirely possible that rapid killing of the outside of the meat, which is what I do a lot now and I'm doing su VT so that I don't overcook on the sear, right? Maybe it doesn't hurt it at all, because you're only rapidly chilling the outside portion of the meat and then immediately reheating it. You know what nobody knows? Because nobody's run that test. And so you can't say that this multistep chilling thing works for anything other than full, chill and reheat anyway, long answer to a short question. But as we get things on the suckling pig, by the way, No, nobody's got anything sucker suckers on suckling pigs.

I just stared down that guy outside until he looked away.

Nice. Alright, next question. And the

rest are really boring. Okay,

he was really boring waiting for you to read it. Why he has read it

first. Dave. I have to say I just loved your book. Liquid intelligence.

All right. Okay. The Stasi is just making fun of in front of me when I

read the whole question. Read the question. You say thank you. At work, I'm trying to create mocktails for our clients because non low alcohol is becoming more popular here in Belgium,

or the problem with this one is the question has a lot of luck long ingredient is going to be yes. So you chose this one specific? No.

The worst? No, the next one is the worst.

In terms of length of readings. Yeah.

The guy that's like cryo, grinder bagel of

necessity or nightmare reading these questions like like, you only read this one you want to read it? I can't I can't really do more.

We had a caller on the line, I

call it. The problem is I can't parse that question in like in the air and you look at the ingredients on the page. You're better off just giving me your phone caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, this is West calling from Seattle, Washington. I doing that for the spins off. I was the guy who bugged you about on Twitter a couple weeks ago about the deep fryer and I was just surprised. I didn't Wiley's thing that looks pretty cool. But then it just realized there's like no good. Like prosumer deep fryers out there on the market. Is that true?

That is absolutely 100% True. The fryer that he has the Cajun fryer is good, it just doesn't have a thermostat. Right? So you have to sit there and throttle it but you know it is what would say just put a message on it. Yeah, if they if they ever sold them right so but the other thing is is like it throttles in the back so it's got like it basically is like the most like boneheaded of thermal management techniques. It's just like literally like you have like a thing in the back and it's like, and chutes you know what I mean? But you know, if you if you sit there and throttle it, it does a great job of cooking because it has the one thing that no home fryer has which is a cold zone. Right. The other good news about it is that it's got that full down lid so all of it basically stays contained. You don't have to worry about it. Unlike mine that I have to put a lid over and like you know all this other stuff, but mine has, you know, a basal valve and thermostatic control. Now you could probably post rig. The problem is if you post rig gas equipment, you're putting yourself in some danger unless you really, really, really know what you're doing. You know what I mean? Because you're messing with gas Right. So, you know, but that said, I've used his Cajun fryer. And you know, it works really well, other than with the caveat, like I say that it doesn't have its own thermal control, but it heats up pretty quickly. All right. But it's definitely something that should should exist. Like, I don't know why anyone doesn't make no one. As far as I know, you could make a prosumer electric fryer with at least a marginal cold zone. The problem is, is that all of those things are built to be countertop, and the, the height of the basket would just be so high, think about it, right. So if you're going to put a cold zone, you actually need a drop area and a trough for stuff to collect. And so if that cold zone is, you know, like eight, eight or nine inches high, you're lifting the entire surface, the fry level of your fryer up eight to 10 inches. And so now it's becoming a pain in the in the behind for anyone other than Mark Ladner to use in the kitchen because you need to be really tall to be able to look into it. You know what I mean? Because if you don't want your fry baskets, like crammed up by your shoulders when you're lifting them out, you know, and I'm have kind of low average height and even for me, that would be kind of uncomfortable. So if you were shorter than me, then you know, it'd be even harder. You know what I mean? Yeah, Sunday, Sunday, I could stuff out there maybe maybe murky prior, because you know, maybe Booker and DAX product number four after the next one. We already know what the next one is going to be. But after that one, maybe, maybe maybe the fryer started. You don't like you know, like frying stuff. But you don't want me to build a fryer. Why do you not only build the fryer? She's sitting here shaking her head? No. Why do you not want to do you have a long term plan? We have a long term plan. That's right. That's right. It's not in the long term. No, that's true. All right. The Stasi is just your text. I'm getting other people's texts and so

okay, I have one that's not with a bunch of stuff. Well, by the