In the heart of Manhattan, the Rockefeller Center joined as usual with necessita hammer Lopez in Connecticut, where she is recovering from some sort of internal poisoning. How are you doing stuff? I'm okay. Man. Sucks to be sick. really sucks to be sick. Yeah. We got Joe Hasan in the booth. How you doing? I'm doing well. Great to see you, man. Yeah. Good to see you as well. We got we got Quinn holding the fort down in Vancouver Island. How you doing? Quinn?

I'm good. I'm good. Good. Good.

Jackie molecules. Where are you right now? Los Angeles, Los Angeles. And behind me in the studio. We got our intrepid sheffey. Chef, John from temperance. How're you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah. Good. All right. Yeah. And following our normal new route, I'm going to introduce our special guests so that they can be part of our pre show or beginning show banter. I have we've never actually met before. While we do frame in the studio, Chef Wally, right. We've never met right. It's the first time we're,

we've never met here before. Yeah, so it's very tiny room. Yeah. So another tiny room, other

many, many other tiny rooms. The tiniest room, I think that we ever met was like your old office at WD 50.

Which is slightly smaller than some but not much. Well, here's

the thing like, so you know, for those of you that don't know, while you do frame, my brother in law, and for a long time fact, that's how we know each other is because we shared a mutual interest in the carpenter sisters. Yeah,

that sounds weird when you say it like that. Yeah. But fact but it? Yeah, yeah.

And so. So anyways, so you might know he started by why you started at El forno in OWL for now for now. In Rhode Island, right.

Well, I mean, actually, I mean, professionally, that might be accurate. I've been cooking since I was 11. Yeah, but I mean, like for jobs. I mean, I had several jobs in like summer jobs and restaurants, like between my college years, but my first one was, yes, the summer before my senior year of college. I worked at a foreknows correct. And then

you went to you know where I used to work and where Miley by the way. I was when I said I'd never had you on before. People were like, What about Miley? And I'm like, so you're married to Miley who you know is the culinary journalism juggernaut to beat all culinary shavar on the show.

You should you should be I mean, I could leave and she could maybe come over now. As she is pretty close, actually. Oh, she's. She's in Oklahoma. chillin with the Pioneer lady who currently we're on route to Oklahoma. Is

she the Pioneer lady or the Pioneer Woman?

I believe she goes by Pioneer Woman. Yeah, but she has a big ol ranch right? I mean again, that's why you should have Milan to discuss this matter. It's not so

anyway. So then whatever you went to the French Culinary Institute then like your what your first big I'm just doing the quick thing. We'll do banter first name we do quick. Why don't you better first? You have anything that you cook anything good this week?

Have I cooked anything good this week? I'm not really I mean, it's the week is it's early in the week. So well. I mean,

my week started at your house having having a sort of Silence of the Lambs Turkey experience, which was

enjoyable. Yeah, like that. I put the lotion. I literally put the lotion on the skin. You You certainly do it guys. So what I did people was I made my mom's stuffing recipe because I'm supposed to go on. And you were on Dave Chang's recipe club. We'll see how long goes right. Good fun. Yeah. And so like I'm doing something with them. And I'm on their Thanksgiving episode. So I made my mom's stuffing. But my gist of how the rest of the club's supposed to work is that you're supposed to do something that is maybe that you haven't done before. Right? Correct. So like since I've had this stuffing every year of my life and have made it for at least I've been a participant in making it for at least the 42 years, right or at least since I was 10 or before it right. I was like well I gotta do something different. So I ripped the skin off a turkey just like this just like Buffalo Bill and then a meat glued it around the stuffing and just made like a like just skin and and stuffing like just skin stuff. I mean

the wings were added on for some some authentic Yeah, for a little visual appeal. You know, it was quite delicious. It was quite delicious.

I do love my mom's stuffing recipe. This week. I

haven't I haven't prepared much and again I started Sunday night at your house last night. We we dined Alfresco as a family this I'll be cooking later this week pizzas on pizzas on the docket I make pizza every week. Probably do the girls Like my my wife, your brother, your sister in law will be out of town most of the week so I'll do be doing a lot of cooking the girls like we do a little mango chicken we get we found this delicious Indian mango chicken from a place not far from us up in curry Hill and I've reverse engineered it pretty well so that the girls like that, you know, it's fun. I like cooking at home a lot as as you I know you do too, but so

also just like I don't know, I'm just used to it anyway.

Yeah, like I said, I make pizza every week because that's an important part of what's what's coming. And so yeah, how much you want to talk about that? I mean, we can talk about most of it. Yeah,

sure. All right, what about that? What about you guys? John? What do you got? What are you got anything good this week? I'm assuming stars that you don't have that much good this week because you don't feel well. That you haven't been cooking a lot

after like two days ago but yeah, no nothing good.

What about what about what about you, John?

No, nothing really. I guess I've been getting good at making the carbon are at the restaurant. But still Yeah, satisfying. But yeah.

So what kind of carbon our learning curve did you go through?

I mean, I've always made it for myself and for family meal and things like that, but this was Yeah, I don't know. I've just been getting better. And I found like the right ratio of cooked pasta to credible.

If any of you have been to the restaurant like maybe like three weeks ago, and had the carbonara go again have the galvanometer against but

what's the what's the pork product of choice in your criminal guanciale?

Who's going trolley that Iowa one?

Yeah, like we're sure you're gonna think I'm gonna try and get the salumeria BLSA you're a quitter, man. Huh. Because that's what Murray's house. All right.

It's, it's, it's to try to me, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't had I love anyone trying to do anything good. I'm not trying to not trying to hurt anyone. But like, I haven't had their guanciale for years and years and years. But like I kind of like the kind of like the wetter rolled up. Punch. I don't know. Yeah, I'm a huge grandchild fan now.

100%

You know why? It's delicious. That's correct. Is the correct answer and why to be a fan of anything? Yeah.

You know where you could try it right? It's at my restaurant if you find like

Oh yeah. With With friends like these, by the way, today is election day. So if you're listening to us live, that means that you're on the Patreon if you're not listening to us live and you want to John what should they do

patreon.com/cooking issues we got three different levels of membership all with great different perks at the base level you always get to be part of the discord which I always forgot to mention. It's a great talking space for members from the cooking issues community you can ask a lot of different questions and get recipe feedback and things like that. It's great and and also, great guests on for which we get discounts for listeners from out of kitchen arts and letters, and yet just a whole bunch of other things. So you should join him. First affordable.

Plus, also, you can call in your questions live 2917410 1507. That's 917-410-1507

I'm dialing No,

no. Oh my God. Don't tell you Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. Like it's on a loop. Turn down your turn. Anyway. So Quinn, what do you got going on? Anything? Good?

I did that. That Cantonese. Ketchup spaghetti. Chinese cooking game, Mr. Floyd. It's pretty good.

compared to any other thing you could do. How was it?

Well, I won't do it again. Okay. I'll say that.

Yeah, I don't know. Ketchup. I mean, like, I don't know the way you describe quickly the ingredient base that goes into it.

Well, it's onions, fried in copious fat. Okay. The recipe calls for lard. I had to substitute Ghee for the fully hand. And then you cook out the ketchup. And then you do

what do you mean cook out? You mean cook it until it fry the ketchup until what like in other words, like, like, like the old school recipe, say the fat pops out of it. We're at the demystifies like almost turning it back to paste.

I don't know. I don't know if we went that far. But like, you know, there's a slight color change. And then there's other tomato products. Yet again, the recipe calls for a little bit of fresh. I just did like half a can. And then you simmer it with crushed garlic, baby shushing wine, a little soy sauce. I mean, it's good.

Hey, hey. I went to John George's the 10 building a little while ago to buy which you should I should go to a bought his fancy bayleaf much better than the bayleaf that I was buying from my supermarket. dried or fresh. Right? Right. Like very well I love what love what a piece. Yeah, yeah. So it was, you know what makes good stuff? The spice box. Yeah. Speaking of spice box, have you guys heard of spice bags? Irish spice bags? No wouldn't be your thing like, John. You've never heard of the Irish spice bag? No. Oh my god Quinn. You heard of the Irish spice bag? Jack or Staz? Joe? No, no. Oh,

so apparently it's been called and Irish spice. But

there you go. Well, but you're more of a French Canadian spice back. But so apparently it started at like, Chinese takeout in Dublin in the in the like 2010s right around that area. And it's a mixture of like, french fries. Fried peppers. Pieces of fried chicken. And then like curry curry powder. Oh, yeah. And sauce. And I was like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's good. Irish spice. And I liked the name because it sounds real dirty.

No, no dairy product. No, no cheese of any kind or anything like that

kind of occurs would be great on that. Yeah,

I mean, that would be a very interesting riff on poutine you know, that would be a chuck some curves into the original original specialty of Ay ay ay or India.

You got to anyway, I want it. I don't know if there's a legitimate spice bag here in New York. And I'm now kicking myself because it existed the last time I was in Dublin because I was in Dublin only like, maybe four years ago or five years ago. So it existed and I was too stupid to get to have it. I was not in the know.

I mean, that seems like a strong assessment of you. But

not in retrospect. I could have had a spice bag, the legitimate spice bag, and it's spreading slowly. I think it's coming to I think it's maybe spreading through Irish pubs I think there are some in New York but I don't know who's got like a good one I want I don't want like although How could that combination be can be bad if you use bad chicken and bad french fries.

And it's a curry blend. It's just like a dry space.

I think they add a dry space and I think they also add up they serve it with a salted dipping wet I believe so. Never had a house but imagine just getting like ripping open like like one of those you know those that grease paper ripping it open and having that be in your spice sack. Right. I want that real bad. Want that real bad

done? Well, it sounds delicious.

Oh yeah. Oh, hell yeah.

You think you're in the basket at the same time the fries and the chicken same? I mean, that's how I would do a basket.

I mean, you know, eating unless you need to segregate your oils. You know what I mean? Anyway, that's racist. And miss your molecules. So what would you what would you have going on in freegan? What do you have going on in Mexico?

Oh, man. I was all over Mexico by the way. I did. I did hear the episode last week. I actually did not have service. Appreciate it you poking a ton of delicious food is in Mexico City will haka Morelos towns at federal hacker. But at the end of my trip on the very last day happened to go to this like, I guess they call it like a psychedelic music festival called hypnosis. And one of the headliners was Primus of all bands and get this a few things. So first of all, this crowd is full of like hip young Mexicans. They all know every song singing every lyric Tommy the cat? Yes, I couldn't. I was beside myself. I did not understand how this was possible.

Were they mainly doing physical fry sailing and Caesar cheese? Or were they more well known as Big Brown beaver era what were they playing?

They did when it was big brown beaver physical fry. Jerry was a racecar driver. My name is mud Tommy the cat. So they also played a the entire farewell to Kings rush album as a cover, right? So this but here's the fun part. A guy jumps on the stage and tries to steal les Claypool space in the middle of the song

to get the crap kicked out.

Oh, yeah, sure did. Yeah.

But yeah,

it was it was it was wild. I just know we talked about Primus on the show a few weeks ago. It's very weird. Coincidence.

Yeah, I'll like every month or two. I think about the concert. I saw them play in New Haven with Fishbone where he just stopped the song to defy the laws of tradition, which if you don't have that song, it's like, you know, it's like it's anyway, it's a song so he stops right in the middle of it just stops and goes. I hope none of you are doing hallucinogenic drugs. They're illegal. And they're bad for you. Crazy I was like, man, because he was so high on who is doing drugs at that moment was awesome. Anyway, like, that was a I was either right after sailing season cheese came out or it was I think it was the tour for sailing season cheese is that it was that concert which was not It's good old days. Good Old Days.

So Latin. And lastly i will i promising that update the map with all my Mexico City recommendations. I will actually do that today. New spots that I found.

Sounds good perennis All right. So, one some questions first, and then we'll go back into the whole history of the while he or you want to do

me? Sure as US Sure. I'm happy for questions.

Questions. All right. We got we got questions for you. Great. All right. Oh, by the way, speaking of people who are interested in database products next week, we have Craig from OMO kitchen coming on. Yep. So any of you that have bagel related questions? Nuvo bagel related questions. Oh, by the way, Jack, did you see that they're doing a new a new metal tour.

Oh my god. I sure did.

Oh my god. So many bands like so much corn soy mother Incubus. Like but then they're also including people like skinny puppy and freaking Mr. Bungle. So I'm like, what? Like, we're like, like, Okay, Mr. Bungle. I kind of get it. But like, how is skinny puppy? The similar? I don't know. It's like Slipknot playing that thing. I don't know. All I'm saying.

It's an insane line. It looks like a joke. When I saw it first. I was like, this has to be just a joke. Like a meme. It is real.

You're like, I verified it. It's actually happening. And then I went back and listened. I really did have to go. Yeah, I mean, like, I like skinny puppy. Right. But like a lot of this because I don't consider that new middle but a lot of that new misery delicious. They are. Yeah, it didn't really when you got to just the right level of tenderness. But long cook. But by the way wildly. Congratulations on on you and I joining the International cvwd Hall of Fame together. Yes. Congratulations. Oh, by the way, for those you that don't know, while he's the one I mean, I've said this on the air a million times while he's the one who kind of got me into again, he was macking on my wife, sister. And so the only way he could do that was by getting me to get him immersion circulators off of eBay. And that's how we became friends. I mean, that's probably a modified version of the story, but it's the one that I'm sticking with. Okay. Yeah. Well, some truth to it. Wiley was the first person I know of other than Thomas Keller and maybe Charlie Trotter to have immersion circulators in the US because no one had them here. And no one could afford them. Right. So while he had a 252 and a $50,000, was what the botnet costs.

I mean, I don't know that it was it was a lot. There's a lot of good that will come with discussing that. Oh, no,

not the cost, but like, expensive and huge and great. Yeah, 11 feet by eight feet, except for the five big pool table that they could not replace the flat top pieces properly and I had to go and grind them down.

Again, I don't think we're here to to badmouth Boehner,

but I'm saying this is like WD 50 was a kid like a cook's paradise right? It had a huge awesome amazing everybody loved kitchen. And a really nice downstairs so like, you know how when you go downstairs, a lot of restaurants it really sucks. It was nice downstairs. It was really nice downstairs like the pastry room was air conditioned. Correct. So that like you know that wouldn't mess up like the ice creams and the bases and whatever lamp whatever they people's hair. We don't wanna mess up people's hair. Well, Sam's hair when you open was a thing of beauty. Sam Mason's hair was, you know, it still is? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, like, you know, I could see installing air conditioning just to keep the cloth. Perfect. Correct? Yeah. And then the ice cream who was putting out that place? All the stuff or like all the stuff that pastry folk, I mean, you had kind of a really stupid, stupid list of pastry people come out at 50 they were not stupid people. Not. But like, dumb, like crazily successful. super talented. Super Talent. Yeah,

no, it was it's always made me feel good. You know, the number of people that have gone through there and gone off to do great things. But oddly, the most notable has been the the pastry department, you know, the the three pastry chefs, as well as I mean, you know, she wasn't an actual she was just a cook or pastry cook. But Christina Tosi, without question is probably of all the people that worked in the pastry department at WD 50. The most famous

Yeah, and what is she done with her life? Just kidding. mess with it. Yeah. Tozi who's basically ruling the world. Sanchez who's like ruling your CEO

has done very well. Sue Sanchez and Malcolm Livingston. Yeah, just released a pretty interesting dessert at Sweet every sweet grain. There's a sweetening here. You should go try it. It's available right now. Brand new dessert first time ever sweet green stew pack. Alex Tupac also who's done relatively well for himself. You think I believe and Sam Sam Mason also Oh, So all all extremely good people, but all who have gone on to do great things. But the

other thing about all those people is, they also all did their own. They did their, in other words, they didn't come and just do exactly what the person who is doing. Their predecessor did. They all had their own spins on things I thought was really kind of fun. They all did their own new kind of things and techniques. It was a very, it was a very, it was a kitchen where like, you kind of demanded that people think and do kind of innovation work like you didn't really enjoy people just kind of like riding on it, you know what I mean? Well,

we really encouraged people to be part of our thought process. And I think in that had the effect of giving those people confidence to eventually have their own thought process. And so I think they're all great examples of people who came and added to our body of work, but but hopefully took you know something about our process and allow them to help identify who they were and define who they were, and continue to be. I mean, they're we're all obviously in the state of evolution, but they're all doing really great stuff.

Yeah, and your bar program was always like one of the most interesting bar programs at the time. I always, I always used to say to, I always used to say to, you know, whichever the magazines because people still printed magazines back then would listen mean they still printed on that's my least business. I'm not bad mouthing the magazine business. But, you know, I used to say that it was very hard for restaurant bars to get the kind of play they deserve. But you had like, you have so many good people at WD you had toner member toner, who's now in, you know, he did research and bar and cook, and he plays trumpet. And he was a nanny, and he's the cookware expert.

I mean, we had a lot of people, you start with having having free Mabin oven was our original juice we had, we had some knowns, we had some very well known. So you know, and we had, we had a lot of, we had a lot of good people that went through the bar program there. I mean, again, we, you know, I think a great restaurant is got something to offer sort of an all rungs of the ladder. So we wanted to have not just good food, not just good service we wanted, we wanted to have food and beverage, but within the food and beverage we wanted to have, you know, we had an amazing, you know, Sherry collection, we had amazing rums that nobody knew about, we had all sorts of different, we had a lot of different beverages, you know, that we felt just added to the layered experience. That was WD 50. If you know when you when you decide to come and however you wanted to engage, whether it was simply just dinner, or sort of go on this journey, there were a number of different ways that you could go on the journey. And, you know, between myself and my father and the rest of people, we just believed that the more the more layers we could put the richer the experience would be. And so we tried to have all that stuff. And so that's, you know, that was the fun of it. Except salad. Well, because I don't believe that salad is part of the layered experience.

Yeah. Did you know that John Wiley is a you'll hate Sally just didn't want to serve it. Correct?

Career? Interesting. Yeah. I'd like to share a little story about WD 50, if I may. So Wiley, when I first started cooking back in 2008, you came to the restaurant, I was working at resto because Dan Ross, Luke Wyler, had been one of your your interns at one point. And I made you a grilled cheese, like a fancy grilled cheese. That's what we were doing there. But I didn't know who you were. And then a couple of weeks later, you know, Dan made a big deal out of it. So I ended up getting a reservation at WD 50. And I showed up there and you're one of the I can't remember who the server was, but we start talking to them. And he, you know, casually mentioning that I'd made your grilled cheese not thinking anything of it, you know, and that's why it was there. And just for the fun of it, but he went and told you and then the level of hospitality that you showed us was absolutely incredible. You sent out five free appetizers, three free entrees. I mean, you gave us a personal tour of the kitchen afterwards. And that just like solidified me wanting to be in hospitality, like that experience that you gave me without even having ever met me was just so kind and generous. And it was yeah, it's why I'm back to shuffling now. So thank you. Well, I

have the invoice. I'm actually here. Yeah. Perfect. Nine free things that you wish Yeah. No, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's a lot. It was a it was a good time. Yeah. Well, I

was always extremely generous to cooks. You always have loved cooks.

Yeah, I mean, sure. Absolutely. Yes. 100%. I mean, we tried to extend ourselves to any and all customers. But we did like to give special consideration to kitchen, you know, to cooks, kitchen workers that would come and you know, understandably not necessarily have have the ability to to afford to eat their cake to have the full experience. I mean, yes, we had ala carte, but I think really WD 50 At the height of its powers was a long, slow, fun tasting menu, where you could do a lot of different things and have a lot of different flavors and tastes experiences. And so we were always trying to make sure that when when cooks came by I think we could give them the opportunity to, to maybe try it, try it, try something beyond what maybe they could afford. Because, you know, back in those days, I mean, still to this day, it's it's not the most lucrative position in the restaurant,

right. And I'm saying, extending this up to hospitality to like line cooks, like, you know, any people. Yeah, absolutely.

It was not, you know, it was we were not discriminating. And I mean, I hope that we made anybody feel good, you know, restaurant employees or not, but we did always, we had always had a thing for single diners like that we had a policy that if someone's dining alone, to really go over the above and beyond for them, because, you know, it just seemed like a fun opportunity to take someone who's dining alone and really give them an even richer, richer thing. And not that not to imply that dining alone is somehow sad, or something like that. Because dining alone can be great, you know, going to the movies alone do have singular experiences can be, can be great. But we again, we just we tried to really, you know, it's I think that people that get involved in restaurants are are. It's, it's so much fun to dole out that hospitality, it's so satisfying to be able to say, hey, look, we do this. And we want to give you more of what we do. And we're not particularly interested in whether or not you can afford it or want to pay for it. We just we're excited about this. And we want to bestow it upon you. And so I think that people that are involved in restaurants and hospitality tend to be very generous in nature. And so it's, uh, it's just really fun. I mean, it's really fun.

I think it would be really hard nowadays to do something like WD 50 You know what I mean? First of all, like, just the, the mentality behind it, I think it'd be hard to get I don't think you could do it again, not you won. You know what I mean? Like that kitchen, like the level of so you like for those that never got to go there? You know, it was bare wood. Right. Not not tablecloth, but, you know, the place settings were put out. Just so you know. So it's like a very specific mix of not overly stodgy. Not stodgy, but also, like, controlled. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I mean, I think you see a lot of those roots in modern two and three star Michelin experiences, mostly in Europe. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know that there's necessarily a tablecloth on the table at Noma, to be honest with you. I think it's more about the beautiful wood, the same. I mean, our tables were made from the wood reclaimed from the floor when we renovated the building and that is equally I think, a part of our story as a place like no milk harvesting wood from some local forest or some story this or that, but I you know, I think at its I think restaurants like that are in some ways, ultimately more of a Europe like supported by the by a European or foreign plate like America is not there were never you mean when you know, Alinea is still a practitioner, and there are maybe a small handful of other places, thinking cooking, giving you experience in that sort of way. Although I think the the like you said the dining room, a lot of the service and stuff. WT is not like Alinea at all. It's much, much more informal, much more casual. But it it? I think you're right. I think it would be hard to do that. I think it had a time and a place and you know,

well, yeah. Especially the the mental room that that kitchen allowed. I don't think anyone, I don't think it'd be hard to to get that built again. You know, when I mean? Like it's

it's it's a lot, you know, there's a lot of pressure to to constantly innovate. I mean, it was a different time. It was a different time in kitchens, there was almost this kind of crazy space race around the world where it was like, okay, you know, we're going to be at Madrid fusion this year, we're going to be at starships this year. What are we going to do? What are we going to show what are? It was, you know, there was a lot of technique, it was not a technique driven. I mean, I think some people, the critics use that as an opportunity to say it wasn't good, because it wasn't about flavor, or deliciousness. It was just about this, you know, how can I make something crazy, and I disagree with that. But there was almost this sort of maniacal space race to come up with this new wild and crazy technique of which you played, you know, many a vital role and in, you know, whether it was making, you know, coffee and milk drops, keeping the circulators running, keeping the circulators running, but it was a wonderful time. It was a wonderful time, but I think that probably that time has has passed, I think that there's still room for for a lot of the belief systems that I have about cooking and approaches to cooking and, you know, we're applying a lot of that thought process to what, what what's involved in a pizza. But I think for, you know, if someone said here's $5 million, go open another WD 50. I think I might actually, you know, say thank you, but no, let's open 15 pizzerias and stuff.

That's a lot of work and plus you Are you open to WD 50

Yeah, and like, you know, I feel good, I feel good we set out to achieve a lot of things. And I think for the most part, we achieved every goal, you know, we, that we set out and so it it, it, it was a circle was complete, I don't you know, all there was an incomplete thought it didn't get to go all the way through and that's too bad and do certainly didn't come close. And that's also unfortunate, but I feel good about you know, WD 50s lifecycle WD 50 stayed open till they knock the building down. Yeah, and to this day, there's still nothing in the retail space. So I feel bad, I feel bad for for the sort of myopic vision that the landlords at the time had because they, they could we could have put it back. Anyway, that's, that's a story for another day,

one of the many, many times I ate a WD 50. I remember I was having a delicious tasting, but he like wily would always keep some of his his pork belly around because he knew that I loved his pork belly like Wiley's pork belly is real good. You want to go through the procedure.

It was just a long, slow, you know, it was it was brined for a while and then it was cooked for even longer

pressed it real flat. So

you can count on that as pressed after that. So it was you know, it was like a two to three day process. But I mean that it were not for the pork belly you and I may not know each other

in the net pork belly was good. Like I don't, I don't feel like it's more important. More important that well, that's

what you were known as you were the guy that wanted the middle course pork belly. Yeah, that's, you know, when I appreciate it. It's Chef the guy. middle course pork belly wants a kitchen tour. Go tell the guy if he wants a kitchen tour. I want to date with his sister. See,

I wasn't so

you know, long story short. I married the girl. Yeah. And Dave got the pork. So everybody wins.

I yeah, I went one all the way around. Yeah, but I remember. So like. So WD 50 had like big picture windows in the front and like the bar and you kind of go in and it's it was literally I mean, I was living still in the garment district at the time but I was bout to move down to the neighborhood or I just moved out of the neighborhood and your people are seeing they're having this kind of amazing tasting experience. And kids would just come up pull their pants down and push their butt against the window remember that?

I mean who doesn't like little press tam doesn't like little press to

different different time different time. And in the in the Lower East Side time in the Lower East Side biffed it right saying question, what is your business for you? Wiley, okay. He's trying to he's trolling. This is a troll question. Okay, prepare for to be trolled. Okay. Okay. For those of you that don't know, Wiley had a donut concept called do which is short for to frame thaw? Yeah. Coffee donuts. And you also have a family history of donuts and coffee. But that's Yeah, yeah.

We lead lead with Turner. Fair. Fair. But

but you have a family history of donuts. Correct. You want to talk about the family history Don's briefly before I read this troll question so that my great

grandfather was a cake donut maker.

Okay, that's it. Yeah. And you? You enjoy them?

I very much enjoy them. Yeah. All right. You know why? Because they're delicious. Yeah.

Which is the correct answer for anything?

Yeah. I mean, that's delicious. Yeah.

Question, What is your best argument for why cake donuts should even be bothered with when there is the clearly superior option of making yeasted nuts?

Well, that person has a medical condition. I think if they're not so yeasted. And for that I I'm sorry. I wish them a speedy recovery. I believe that, you know, again, there's there's enough space in the world for everybody. But I think if you consider the the idea of of taking cake batter, which is really what a cake doughnut is and trying to fry that in a perfect circle in under three minutes. When not when normally would pour that into a pan and bake it in an oven and 30 to 45 minutes that there's a real art to it. And I find like a warm sugared cake donut about four minutes after it's come out of the oven when all the starches have actually retrograde and it's cooled to be sort of ethereal. But that's not to say that you won this lovely person couldn't enjoy a yeasted donut. But I think that a Katonah it is better. Personally, Easter doughnuts

are easier to make. I mean, but I don't want to be a jerk about it. But I mean, in other words, like they're self sealing, right? So like you, you you make a yeasted dough. And it's easier to get to a certain level with I'm not saying to be great is hard with anything, but I'm saying just to a certain level. Yeast is easier because they're self skinning. So you throw them into the oil and they sell skin well, just because it's easier doesn't make it better or worse. I think you enjoy challenges and you even the way you just said it. Making a cake donut is

hard. It makes caked on it is hard I would say actually bigger picture frying in general is one of the hardest culinary forms. Period hard stop to do properly. It's there are so many more people practicing bad greasy, it's easy. We have a saying it's easy to make greasy food, and it's really easy to make greasy food in a fryer. It's very easy properly fried food is not greasy. Unfortunately, most cake doughnuts are greasy and they are perceived as moist. People think that a greased leaden doughnut laden doughnut is moist. It's actually not it's greasy. A proper cake donut should have a nice crust or ring. To be honest, I think old fashioned is probably a donut at its highest like the apex of art. But properly fried doughnuts are really hard to do properly fried anything is really hard to do. It's a lot easier to put a piece of fish or or piece of meat in a pan than it is to fry it.

Yeah, I mean, I think people should think more about frying I think they should do it gets really hard. How do you like your Cajun fryer by the way?

Um, I do like that Cajun fryer. It's a lot of work to maintain a fryer that you don't use regularly.

You know what I mean? Trust me.

I mean frying you know, it's safe to fry outside and stuff like that. So it's great and I do like it but it's

you know, having a lot works the lid works to keep the oil good or Yeah,

I mean, having a fryer in the middle of the woods is not without its challenges. You know, I don't know any clearing

to be fair, it's in a clearing anyway. But how do you deal with the do you okay with the lack of thermostat that's because like when I'm you know, you know, for so long I you know, has a giant thermostatic fryer. I miss it dearly. It's in my garage if you want it I know and I have no place to put it. Although you know, I think I figured out the prom I probably put it back in but you know what the Who wouldn't like that very much the building

my wife Yeah. And the Billy Yeah, if your insurance company

Yeah. Oh my god back in the old place when I had the 40 pound fryer.

Oh, yeah. And you didn't have children to me?

I did. I did. They knew not to put their get near the fryer. It's like come on. It's like you know don't stand behind the car when I'm backing out of the garage only for me it was don't get near the fryer when it's frying. Me moving on. Anyway, I missed the fryer deeply but you like the cage one for it's a good option for people to have an outdoor fryer.

Yes, it is good option for outdoor Absolutely. 100%

as African is stainless are painted is painted. Yeah, it's painted. Oh, love are the stainless I'm sure if like if they offered you a stainless option.

What was a gift from my most excellent wife? Yeah. And it's good. I fried fish out there. I've read a lot of doughnuts out there. That's good.

A chef chef style people wildly turned me on to the stainless steel wedding bands like Yeah, and you turn it on stainless steel letting that because you're a lover of stainless steel.

I am

your favorite metal.

Well, what's not to like? What's not to like about stainless? Yeah,

I mean it's stainless and it's hard. Yeah, shiny.

I was just having him you know we're building a pizzeria and oh, we just decided to clad the bar and stainless and someone said won't that won't like drinks leave the rings on it. I said no. Because it's stainless stain less Yeah, a little bit won't like you know like that way bars oxides in the middle. I said it will not they said it but I said it's stainless. They will it will not leave a mark. It is without stain. Yeah, we in our house up in Connecticut. We had countertops put in that were that were stainless and that the contractor was like I've got them in there. They're either gonna breathe or be shiny. It's gonna look like Chrome. I was like, No, I want you to brush the whole thing. And he's like, but no, no, it'll look it'll look it'll look like like it's been used like the second you walk away from polished stainless It looks terrible. Sort of brush the whole thing. He's like, brush it looks great. And weightless.

You ever when you go to get like stainless stuff manufactured on the down the district and the straight deal like is this residential or is this commercial and they always try to put a higher finish on the residential but then it ends up looking like garbage anyway.

Yes. Brushed pressure.

So you mentioned the pizzeria. Do you want to say anything more about that? So you did your stretch pop up?

We just stretch pop up. Yes. Right.

And then now your your what do you want to say about what's going forward?

We're we're working diligently on bringing a stretch brick and mortar pizzeria to a neighborhood near you soon.

What kind of oven you going to use.

We're gonna use a deck of an electric deck oven.

You do want to talk about the brand or you don't have that picked out yet.

I think we're gonna go with the pizza Master. Yeah, we're pretty pretty enthusiastic about that.

Nice and how tall are those decks?

Well, we will be using a three deck oven the the bottom of the upper deck if that makes sense. Yeah, the door open I think is sits at 60 inches.

Right but how deep is each layer are Pete what's the height of each piece of decks are real short right?

Yeah, they're I think what is that eight interest I think, oh, it's

pretty high though. Yeah, it's enough I have the spec is it is are they? Like,

like, what's about 70 inches wide and 50 deep?

And what's what's going to be your standard diameter? Pizza? Yeah,

probably a 12 inch. I mean, I think that there's a lot to like, I mean, yeah, 12 inch 12 inch pizza. There's a lot to like about a 12 inch pie. And we're doing a New York style dough and I think that nobody really makes New York style pizza that small you know, typically New York pizzas are 18 to 20. But I think that you know, those those pies don't deliver well and I think that a New York style pizza and in a smaller size will actually be a great pie for delivery will hold up to delivery won't won't arrive in a box all soupy and steamy and gross,